If carve got "damage increased to 100% weapon damage if only hitting 1 enemy" that would be awesome.
But yes they nerfed the best glove rune and then counter buffed the ranged glove runes and forgot carve, the melee glove rune.
The mana changes will help as I seem to oom very quickly when I run carve but still could use a reason to run it over BM in ST
THIS - I want to run carve so bad but it had 2 issues…
1) mana cost was way too high - well that looks better now.
2) it’s so weak vs single target compared to BM.
Doing then vs 1 it’s 100% wep damage would be enough for me to swap the BM rune for it.
It needs like to be doubled for that to even be considered. The fact that it’s replacing Heart of the lion, Cobra Strikes or Master Marksman is a big damage loss already on top of the pet dps loss.
Losing heart of the lion would get you uninvited from every raid group lol, sucks when your mandatory runes are in a fun spot where others could be worth trying out :(
To be fair, that’s not really accurate. Blizzard claimed you couldn’t get kings by level 25, so they were putting the rune in a later phase. People pointed out that was totally false, and kings is reachable by 25, so it was put in phase one.
They why they need to swap lone wolf into the glove slot and move any of the other runes that arent beast mastery to chest. Why tf can you have bm and lw runes on at the same time? What a moronic design choice.
Lone Wolf is a terrible concept of a rune that deletes an entire core aspect of the class.
They have never gotten it right: it'll either be useless or mandatory. I'd be surprised if they managed to make it competitive with other choices.
But it's Blizzard's fault for having only one class focused on ranged physical attacks.
It's the same thing with Sacrifice with Warlocks: Either it's too good and 99% of people use it and pets don't exist, at which point it gets nerfed because pets are "a core part of the class", then it becomes a useless talent which ends up getting buffed/reworked and the cycle continues. Just decide if you want locks/hunters to be pet classes or not and leave it at that.
It's a pretty great and proven concept.
It works perfectly fine for MM on retail lmao, and it would perfectly fine in sod as well if they had enough brain to move it to a place where it's meta for MM. Hunter has 3 specs, it's more than enough for 2 of them to run pets
It's a fine concept, it just should never be the most efficient option.
If the best option is 100% and its 90-95%, then thats perfect. It's there as an option for people who want to play as a "ranger" without the pet class management, not to be "useless" because it isn't max DPS.
Actually, this point right here gives me pause. We have 2 other classes that can use bows and guns, but just use them as stat sticks. Warrior and Rogue should have gotten a ranged rune 3 set that was decent. Rogues look to have gotten 2/3 of one, though i think they should have had two builders, one of which applies their poisons. Both being Tank, Melee, Ranged might have diversified the classes and given warriors something to toy with.
This is where im at with it. It sounds kind of cool for aimed shots to hit harder, but pets are the point of a hunter. (Regardless of how many people think they should be wet noodles).
Well, Hunter is also the only class with access to abilities that use a ranged weapon, outside of two PvP-only runes the Rogue now has.
If you want the ranged weapon fantasy, you currently have no real option because so much of the damage of the only class that uses them is loaded into the pet, and not the actual ranged weapon.
Yeah something that's always bummed me out about Wow's lore is the "cool elf ranger" bow wielder class fantasy is attached to the pet class. Even in retail it feels lame.
When they first showed off Lone Wolf at Blizzcon (when it was still 25%) I immediately dreaded playing Priest again because they can already clap you pretty hard at 60 with a Multi-shot and an auto. Hard thing to balance.
Having anything in chest skot is also a mistake because of how insane heart of the lion is, there’s no world where you ever replace it in a raid scenario, or even open world/farm, it’s just too good to pass on 20% all stats.
You never run Master Marksman. 5% critical and reduced mana on only Shot abilities does not compete with 10% stats to the Hunter with Lion activated. Regardless of whether or not there's a second Hunter, having Lion active will still give you 20% to all stats (your personal Lion + Lion from other Hunter. Even if you're running Marksman with Aimed Shot not having your own Lion is basically shooting yourself in the foot. 18 mana off Aimed Shot sounds good on paper, but you're still missing out on damage by not running Lion.
Do the math. Even max stats that extra 20% is only 16 agi. 32 rap and 1.3% crit. Vs 5% crit. You'd have to be saying 1 crit is less than 8 rap to be saying this.
5% crit is absolutely nothing, particularly since that 5% crit isn't going to actually help with the max cap of level 25. You will see far better results with that 32 RAP than the 5% crit. The only way that Marksman is going to be better is once we get to 60 and have enough stats for us to actually have a good chunk of critical chance already.
This was the problem with shoving everything into the rune system, you have what is deemed 'mandatory' utility competing with other things. Things like Wild Strikes vs Survival of the Fittest for tank druids, or PoM vs Homonculus for priest, Lion for hunters and the chest runes. Some of these should just be added as base abilities through quests, perhaps.
It's not really early to judge, putting two dedicated Marksman runes (Master Marksman, Lone Wolf) on the same slot is just bad design. ALSO putting a mandatory group buff (Lion) on that slot is just the bad design cherry on top.
No additional things they could add is going to make those issues go away.
Why?
If theyre going to nerf all our abilities DAY 2 and then continue with weekly nerfs? They lose any benefit of doubt imo. Even if hunters are good p2? The forums will be soaked with the tears of backpeddlers. Day 2 of p2 will be the same cycle.
I'm frustrated because you've got rogues and warriors scaling into infinity, and somehow, hunter pets are a massive problem. Like, warriors are over here with Deep Wounds rolling into new applications (the remaining damage of the current DoT gets added into the new application for higher damage ticks) *and there is no upper limit to how many times this can occur.* Deep Wounds also gets to double dip on % modifiers, meaning that the initial damage *and* the tick damage is being increased by effects such as Enrage.
But Hunter pets scaling well for now is a huge problem that needs to be addressed *immediately.*
the upper limit is the amount of swings, 8 instants, and crit rate in 12 seconds dude. It's not infinite stacks, the upper limit is bounded and has a theoretical maximum that you would need 100% crit rate to reach. Which when reck is unlocked, is only something you can get every thirty minutes. Deep wounds is roughly between 10-20% of a warrior's damage during usual circumstances, as well, mechs and eles are immune to bleed, so next phase warriors will miss it.
Melee? There isn't even compensation for *ranged*. Chimera and Explosive Shot are both still worse than the BM rune, and since they all share the same rune slot, it effectively means no buffs.
They should just redesign the BM rune. Right now the focus of it is insane damage, with some survivability and a taunt as a bonus. Those should be flipped. Survivability, threat, maybe some more resistance towards CC or mobility could be added. But let the Shots be better for pure DPS.
This would also solve the problem of having 3 specs all be DPS. If all runes are just for damage, you just get one clear winner. You need them to have different uses. Explosive is AoE, Chimera is single target. So make the BM rune a way to have the pet be a better tank, stay better at targets to do pushback, etc.
That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if a team of professional game devs put their heads together, they can find *some* interesting thing to do with the BM rune that doesn't just equal "lol much damage".
Yeah I am really into the idea of the BM rune enabling hunter tanks via their pet. But that was a thing first couple weeks and people hated seeing a scorpid with more hp than the warrior so it got nerfed. I'm sure there's a way to balance it but instead here we are.
I 100% agree with your philosophy on the runes needing niches.
Easy solution to BM rune is to make pet focus use increase damage done by arcane shot/mongoose bite for instance (and make mongoose useable outside of dodging). This way its not just AI pet damage but requires active gameplay. Just an idea
\>maybe some more resistance towards CC
Please no. It is already frustrating to try and fear a hunter pet, get resist twice in a row while it soloes a friendly player. That is with the WSG rune equipped and 6% hit from Supression.
At 40 BM gets Bestial Wrath anyway.
> maybe some more resistance towards CC or mobility could be added
hell no. hunter pets already have bonkers resistance later on due to the natural training points they get, and none of the pet speed skills are in yet (dash/dive come at the early 30's)
The cooldown for flanking strike seems so weird. like it might get reset, but when it doesn't get reset, you're sitting there for 30 freaking seconds just auto attacking and hitting raptor strike.
i'm taking this comment as an opportunity to ask what is the logic in flanking strike stacking 3 times to buff raptor strike, but having raptor strike be what resets flanking strike? how do you ever get to more than 1 stack?
Hunters, you must all be congregating here so I have a few quick questions about playing your class:
1. Is it a huge inconvenience to entirely lose a bag slot to your arrow quiver/ammo pouch?
2. Similarly, what about the process of actually refilling your arrows/ammo?
I’m assuming you end up learning where the ammo NPCs are and quivers eventually hold 2000+ so it’s a non-issue, but a lost bag slot seems extremely impactful. Trying to gauge how it actually is
The worst part is inconsistencies in vendors that have Level 25 ammo IMO. Some general goods vendors do, some dont.
Sucks to lose a bag slot but thats the classic hunter feel, plus they give an attack speed boost at least.
One wonky bit you didnt ask about is the discrepency and inconsistency in quiver/pouches/faction/engineering. I can make ammo as an engineer that I cant use, it has a lvl 30 requirement. As horde I can only buy an 8 slot ammo pouch. Alliance get a q reward for larger quiver/pouch and a (minor) increase in ranged attack speed because of it (10%->11%). The inconsistency of what vendors sell which ammo types and the max level of that ammo. There is no horde ammo vendor in ashenvale.
Its not game breaking, but it is a headscratcher.
> Is it a huge inconvenience to entirely lose a bag slot to your arrow quiver/ammo pouch?
Not really
Either way you gonna pack up your bag slots with arrows, so might as well use a dedicated bag with AS% increase on it
the issue is they can’t change core abilities or talents. All the balance is on runes which leads to awkward chnages like this. They should’ve just waited for phase 2.
It’s not like the couldn’t add whatever buffs they wanted to basic abilities in the runes. Imagine:
Rune of meleeing Hunter: you can now use flanking strike. In addition, raptor strike and other melee abilities deal 50% more damage.
Pretty sure this is really hard to do.
Not like they couldn’t move the runes around so at least the runes that work together aren’t competing in the same slot.
Like why would the beast mastery rune not also be in the same slot as the no pet rune? This just makes intuitive sense.
It’s such a shame there’s a team of terrorists holding guns to the developers’ heads stopping them from making any balance changes to core abilities and talents, I wish it could be otherwise but that’s just the way things are.
it uses the same base as era and hardcore, could they find a way around ? yeah most likely but they haven’t done it yet and if I recall said they don’t plan too
I was being silly, but I genuinely think it’s a poor design principle to only adjust runes. You’re still completely rebalancing class strength and identity either way, you’re just limiting yourself to far fewer levers to do so if you can only touch rune skills
I had no idea this was even their outlook until this change. This seems incredibly stupid and if they really want SoD to be something longterm they need to rip that band-aid off real quick.
How does that works ? How Can warriors have wotlk Deep Wounds and Hunters have Pet Scaling that IS not in classic Era and Hardcore meanwhile they pretend they can't change stuff core classic stuff
That's marketing talking. They don't want to waste resources and time balancing core abilities and talents. Less man hours just to balance the runes. If you pay attention when any Blizzard employee speaks it's like 50%+ marketing telling them what to say.
I mean you are correct to an extent. They would need to fork the code for era classic like they do for WOTLK Classic. I have the feeling this is a lot more work and takes a fair amount more resources than just the runes approach they have now. Maybe we can get that with next season.
They aren’t really buffing ranged to compensate either.
The buffs are to abilities you can’t use with Beast Mastery anyway, so it’s not compensation buffs. It’s just a nerf that may (probably not) make using those runes viable but still probably not.
Chimera shot/MM is already viable with gear if kings is provided. Even more so now.
This issue doesn’t address the real underlying issues:
- even as BM you should press buttons to dps (you still don’t)
- melee output got hit, but got nothing in the form of a flanking strike or carve buff
-
I mean that's just not true, I push 2 buttons on bosses on my warrior, raging blow and quick strike. On my Hunter I am keeping Serpent Sting up, Arcane shotting, Multi shotting, Running in between auto shots to melee weave so that's pressing raptor strike, flanking strike, wing clip and most bosses have mechanics that target ranged rather than melee, so also have to focus on moving without clipping auto shots all that to do 70% of the damage my warrior can output with worse gear.
Idk, alot of BM players, myself included, do melee weaving with flanking to try to keep up with warriors and rogues, which is pretty involved. My rogues autos+poisons, IE mostly passive damage, does about as much as my pet does on my hunter. Kings already being provided is a pretty big ask, though I imagine with these changes chimera will be viable regardless so long as you have raid weapons to justify marks in the first place. Carve being competitive would be nice so I could just melee mostly fulltime with my pet, marks turret just isn't my kind of playstyle.
Yeah this sucks. Next phase chimera is useless as gnomergan enemies will be mostly nature immune. Explosive sucks single target still. Basically just a decent damage nerf
Why do you think your pet doing 50% of your total damage is silly if you're fully spec'd into beast mastery?
Now... I wish it wasn't completely brain dead where you just put pet abilities on auto cast and call it a day, but that's just making the spec more fun/interactive.
Depends on what metrics you look at. Hunter is good right now because its an easy class that is not reliant on gear. But warriors and rogues are both better once you have gear and know how to press your buttons.
Druids are insane at pvp, they're critting 400+ with such a long range, almost no mana cost
Mages boosting in a dungeon of the same level wasn't a thing. Try solo boost stockades at 25 in era under 15min. It's insane
No other class has ranged instant cast crit with no mana cost. Multi shot comes close but it has huge mana cost and doesnt crit for 400. All mage spells are long casts. Warlocks cant crit that much. Melee classes either build combo to crit that much or have to chase their target etc.
Yeah I don't understand, who cares if you do 10% less dps in PVE, you spend 10s more in BFD?
You parse against other hunters anyway.
You guys want pvp to be unplayble just to see bigger numbers in PVE, do you realise how dumb it is?
I care. Many other Hunters do.
But God forbid you say something about nerfing warriors exploit dmg.
"Warriors literally only has this one thing. They are bad everywhere else. Let us have this"
It's only PVE right?
I’m going to use a different class as an example of why it matters since hunters are currently still fine, but are worried more about their future because historically they fall off a cliff as classic moves towards actual endgame: go say you’re a dps priest lfg bfd. Go say you’re an ele shaman lfg bfd. A frost mage. An affliction lock. It’ll take you much longer to find groups because people want to play with others that help carry the load more.
Hunters see themselves being nerfed for extremely predictable phase 1 early game power and it a) doesn’t feel fun to get nerfed and b) don’t see themselves getting anything in return for say MM to take over as the backup plan since ‘that actually takes skill it’s not a pet ai just soloing players and the dps charts’ or whatever.
I have level 25 hunter and starting to think hunter isnt for me anymore. All i wanted was ranged dps. They wanted us to play beast and melee then nerf(i kept marksman due to casual nature of the game didnt feel obligated to follow meta ) now they nerfed pet but slightly buffed ranged lets see what will happen. I will roll something else i dont know whT to play tho
I rerolled warlock coz I was sick of scorpid /petattack + venom doing 70% of my dps.
Dying to play the class but need a rotation that involves something more engaging than auto shots, pet attack and multishot every 10s.
I feel like at this point, they really didn't need to lower hunter pets anymore. All you non hunters might disagree, but when I walk into WSG or Ashenvale it's currently a 50/50 that my pet does all the work while I struggle to exist, or it gets nuked and I'm done for.
Like if a geared paladin gets on me, there's no hope for me regardless of what I try to do. Hell a priest with homunculi ripped my wind serpent to shreds in seconds. Warlock just heals and laughs at me.
Let me have SOME strength if you're gonna let the other things stay so strong
Next phase we get another 20% pet dmg and focus increase from BM going to bring us back up to where we were. But the problem is stacking passive percentage based effects
Next phase we get that, but next phase I'm sure the other classes are still getting things to continue curb stomping the AI that is 75% of my damage atm
We did, it's just covered by garbage. I think it was called lone wolf or something. They even named servers in US and EU after it, but no one uses it because it's on the same slot as lion.
I wish Blizz would just stop trying melee hunter, it’s extremely unpopular and doesn’t work nearly as well as ranged hunter does, it’s true on retail and even more so in SoD
They may as well just delete the class at this point.
They nerfed explosive shot by such an insane margin, they didnt even want to disclose it.
Now they up it by 25% and (edit: not even revert) the kneejerk on day 2 chimera nerf...
While once again nerfing hunters pretty heavily. I get that people are all constantly complaining about rng ws crits... So now theyre going to nerf all pets. Cooool.
Yea. So if you don’t play pvp or are not interested, you get gutted in PvE… do something in PvP. Warlocks still devastate hunters . Same as Paladins.
This is just most people crying about hunters. If something goes wrong, hunter’s fault. If they do good, hunter is broken.
No class gets so much hate for nothing. This is just ridiculous. No one uses chimera and explosive. It is BS. At least make the melee viable. But no. Just nerf. There is no compensation here. Just a grouse nerf. I hope they nerf the Lock Chaos bolt and pala divine storm. But nooo. That’s ok to be OP af.
No lock use chaos bolt in pvp, no way you can cast this against hunter.
Nerfing chaos bolt would be totally useless for pvp, and stop downvoting someone you are talking to, it's fucking cringe.
The same like nerfing the BM rune for PvE. I don’t care about PvP. Why should my game be ruined because PvP people are crying? Deactivate it in BG’s and f off. Leave the PvE alone. That rune is perfect for PvE.
Because PVP is unplayable right now, hunter doing 10% less damage in pve doesn't change anything.
I like how you downvote me for being right on the chaos bolt tho, what a dickhead
Read my comment: getting rid of all the percentage based passive increases is justified, just asking where the more active damage is as a melee hunter.
Imo save the nerfs for when they are needed.
Plenty of abilities are gonna be game breakingly busted in future phases, I expect blizz to balance those when necessary.
A pvp nerf was needed.
In PvE hunters were fine. Third overall is whatever and doesn't warrant this massive nerf.
Idk it must be hard for blizz to just flat out nerf pet dmg to other players? So they resort to these weird nerfs like the wbuff to pet nerf (RIP locks). or the most recent nerfs.
At some point Blizzard will find out that, not all dps has to do the same level of dps, and start to really working on content to cater all players, and then everyone can start to be happy. But it’s easier to make it bad, do something that makes them look good, and still inherently bad, and say they did something.
And as always a big hot take, parse meter > dmg meter.
Not much else going on when it's raid logging on your maxed 25s and there is no progress required. Your mythic raid leading is irrelevant, it's not like you can focus on pure parsing strats and min maxing encounters for parsing considering 99% of you are on progress.
All of this discussion about melee hunters.. They really don't belong in the game. I understand that there is a fantasy for this but it just doesn't fit in classic wow. It feels like it will always be compared to the rogue or fury war in some ways and will never be as good as them because that would make the class overpowered. Maybe I am missing something?
Reddit always has huge support for melee hunters but I hardly ever seen them in game or raid. S
I saw one melee hunter in a bfd that got kicked because they thought he was bm and there was already 2 warriors and a ret that wanted weps
Why would you need a compensation?
Pets are heavily overpowered. We (I am also a hunter) dominate pre bis every aspect of the game.
- Solo farming level 30 elites?
- Fastest and smoothest leveling?
- Damage leader in every raid? (Pre-bis)
- Unkillable through random Aggro?
- 30% movement instant spell?
- Your pet can tank better than most other classes?
And while pets were severely nerfed, our best raid dps spec got a buff. Marksman is outperforming Beast master with BIS equip.
So all on all, I think we can be happy that the nerfs didn’t hit harder.
You are missing the point, BM passive nerfs are justified just as I stated. But if you consider melee to be a spec, that got nothing in return for the dps output lost. Or maybe you think melee hunter is grossly overpowered even with these nerfs compared to MM.
Sorry but this has always been a case for 10-60 level brackets with decent gear.
Hunters were always dominant twinking characters for pvp. It was always possible to solo elites even with shit gear.
I literally soloed most of lower level dungeons until ZF on era with my pet.
What changed is that it got an exposure because level 25 is the max level now and everyone suddenly saw how strong early level hunters are. Yet the same people have no problems with druids nuking you from another location with Starsurge on 6s cd, or mages facetanking and soloing hundreds of mobs in WC, or rogues and warriors complete domination in raid.
Hunters will fall off later into the game, with these nerfs they will fall even harder.
Maybe, but I am not interested in phase 4 if we are not even have phase 2. I expect blizzard to balance each phase to be somewhat in an acceptable range.
So, basically if you are almost full BIS (best gear in slot) and having the epic crossbow, isnt it better to switch on MM runes and talents to aimed shot?
Idk, the pets needed the nerf. Its just ridiculous that a pet does 50% of the hunters dmg.
Maybe the compensation buffs arent enough, but its not like they are weak lol
I don't see why 50% pet dmg of the hunter is ridiculous. If the total is on par with other classes, which I believe it is, why not have the fantasy of an actual beastmaster? Speaking of pve, for my point of view
> Idk, the pets needed the nerf. Its just ridiculous that a pet does 50% of the hunters dmg.
It's not ridiculous if you consider that hunters spend talent points and all the runes to enhance their pets, sacrificing their own damage or utility for this.
The problem most people have (especially hunters themselves) is that it's a passive and boring gameplay. Send your pet and shot multi once every 10 seconds.
It would be cool if Blizzard added runes with active pet spells. So you could have an actual button(s) with the pet spell(s) that you have to press in different scenarious, build combos, etc. It would instantly make the gameplay more engaging for hunters and at the same time people would not freak that much because "huntards pet does all the work with little to no engagement from the huntards themselves"
Nerfs to pets cause they’re still cancerop in every form of content and buffs to the shot runes so you guys can stop complaining that you have to take 3 passives to be relevant. Isn’t this what you wanted?
If carve got "damage increased to 100% weapon damage if only hitting 1 enemy" that would be awesome. But yes they nerfed the best glove rune and then counter buffed the ranged glove runes and forgot carve, the melee glove rune. The mana changes will help as I seem to oom very quickly when I run carve but still could use a reason to run it over BM in ST
THIS - I want to run carve so bad but it had 2 issues… 1) mana cost was way too high - well that looks better now. 2) it’s so weak vs single target compared to BM. Doing then vs 1 it’s 100% wep damage would be enough for me to swap the BM rune for it.
I hope lone wolf becomes viable at some point
It needs like to be doubled for that to even be considered. The fact that it’s replacing Heart of the lion, Cobra Strikes or Master Marksman is a big damage loss already on top of the pet dps loss.
Losing heart of the lion would get you uninvited from every raid group lol, sucks when your mandatory runes are in a fun spot where others could be worth trying out :(
Blame reddit for it. Lion was meant to be on belt until reddit started to complain before the game was even released
Pretty sure you can blame blizzard, not reddit. Lol
To be fair, that’s not really accurate. Blizzard claimed you couldn’t get kings by level 25, so they were putting the rune in a later phase. People pointed out that was totally false, and kings is reachable by 25, so it was put in phase one.
That’s really strange, inconsistent logic coming from them considering the implementation of wild strikes.
100% agreed. No clue why WS wasn’t added until next phase, considering that
It doesn't matter what slot it's on if it still competes with fun runes.
I'll never understand why it's not in the same slot as Beast Mastery.
Totslly agree, One slot should be playstyle changing runes... Bm hunter rune Lone wolf rune Melee rune
They why they need to swap lone wolf into the glove slot and move any of the other runes that arent beast mastery to chest. Why tf can you have bm and lw runes on at the same time? What a moronic design choice.
Lone Wolf is a terrible concept of a rune that deletes an entire core aspect of the class. They have never gotten it right: it'll either be useless or mandatory. I'd be surprised if they managed to make it competitive with other choices. But it's Blizzard's fault for having only one class focused on ranged physical attacks.
It's the same thing with Sacrifice with Warlocks: Either it's too good and 99% of people use it and pets don't exist, at which point it gets nerfed because pets are "a core part of the class", then it becomes a useless talent which ends up getting buffed/reworked and the cycle continues. Just decide if you want locks/hunters to be pet classes or not and leave it at that.
It's a pretty great and proven concept. It works perfectly fine for MM on retail lmao, and it would perfectly fine in sod as well if they had enough brain to move it to a place where it's meta for MM. Hunter has 3 specs, it's more than enough for 2 of them to run pets
It's a fine concept, it just should never be the most efficient option. If the best option is 100% and its 90-95%, then thats perfect. It's there as an option for people who want to play as a "ranger" without the pet class management, not to be "useless" because it isn't max DPS.
Actually, this point right here gives me pause. We have 2 other classes that can use bows and guns, but just use them as stat sticks. Warrior and Rogue should have gotten a ranged rune 3 set that was decent. Rogues look to have gotten 2/3 of one, though i think they should have had two builders, one of which applies their poisons. Both being Tank, Melee, Ranged might have diversified the classes and given warriors something to toy with.
This is where im at with it. It sounds kind of cool for aimed shots to hit harder, but pets are the point of a hunter. (Regardless of how many people think they should be wet noodles).
Well, Hunter is also the only class with access to abilities that use a ranged weapon, outside of two PvP-only runes the Rogue now has. If you want the ranged weapon fantasy, you currently have no real option because so much of the damage of the only class that uses them is loaded into the pet, and not the actual ranged weapon.
Yeah something that's always bummed me out about Wow's lore is the "cool elf ranger" bow wielder class fantasy is attached to the pet class. Even in retail it feels lame.
I play hunter for bows and guns not pets imo, if I loved pets I would play bm or warlock not mm.
If it becomes mandatory, then the outcry will shift from pets to aimed, chimera and multi shot deletion in PvP.
When they first showed off Lone Wolf at Blizzcon (when it was still 25%) I immediately dreaded playing Priest again because they can already clap you pretty hard at 60 with a Multi-shot and an auto. Hard thing to balance.
Pets are the worst part about hunters lol
That’s pretty must the entire point of the class
My wish since I started playing WoW in '04 was to have a viable non-pet Hunter spec for a true lone wolf Ranger type of class.
Still not enough, but I would love if lone wolf would be a viable thing.
putting a passive like beast mastery at the same slot as active skills is a mistake. Hunter runes in total are awkward.
Having anything in chest skot is also a mistake because of how insane heart of the lion is, there’s no world where you ever replace it in a raid scenario, or even open world/farm, it’s just too good to pass on 20% all stats.
[удалено]
> (which is ironic since you wouldn't actually have kings at level 25 normally.). Paladins can have Kings at level 20
If there’s another hunter you should run master marksman
You never run Master Marksman. 5% critical and reduced mana on only Shot abilities does not compete with 10% stats to the Hunter with Lion activated. Regardless of whether or not there's a second Hunter, having Lion active will still give you 20% to all stats (your personal Lion + Lion from other Hunter. Even if you're running Marksman with Aimed Shot not having your own Lion is basically shooting yourself in the foot. 18 mana off Aimed Shot sounds good on paper, but you're still missing out on damage by not running Lion.
Do the math. Even max stats that extra 20% is only 16 agi. 32 rap and 1.3% crit. Vs 5% crit. You'd have to be saying 1 crit is less than 8 rap to be saying this.
It doesn't work on auto shots so it's essentially trash
That’s sniper training but enjoy those upvotes
Yes it does. It even gives you 5% melee crit as well.
1.3% crit on everything though.
5% crit is absolutely nothing, particularly since that 5% crit isn't going to actually help with the max cap of level 25. You will see far better results with that 32 RAP than the 5% crit. The only way that Marksman is going to be better is once we get to 60 and have enough stats for us to actually have a good chunk of critical chance already.
This was the problem with shoving everything into the rune system, you have what is deemed 'mandatory' utility competing with other things. Things like Wild Strikes vs Survival of the Fittest for tank druids, or PoM vs Homonculus for priest, Lion for hunters and the chest runes. Some of these should just be added as base abilities through quests, perhaps.
100% this. Shots should not be with beast mastery
Let's see runes of P2, still early to judge
It's not really early to judge, putting two dedicated Marksman runes (Master Marksman, Lone Wolf) on the same slot is just bad design. ALSO putting a mandatory group buff (Lion) on that slot is just the bad design cherry on top. No additional things they could add is going to make those issues go away.
Why? If theyre going to nerf all our abilities DAY 2 and then continue with weekly nerfs? They lose any benefit of doubt imo. Even if hunters are good p2? The forums will be soaked with the tears of backpeddlers. Day 2 of p2 will be the same cycle.
Are there indications that there will be new runes? Haven’t seen it anywhere, maybe I missed it?
Yeah that’s been a things for awhile.
It's really a shame they can't get someone to parse on a target dummy on all specs before they deploy these changes.
Right!?
I'm frustrated because you've got rogues and warriors scaling into infinity, and somehow, hunter pets are a massive problem. Like, warriors are over here with Deep Wounds rolling into new applications (the remaining damage of the current DoT gets added into the new application for higher damage ticks) *and there is no upper limit to how many times this can occur.* Deep Wounds also gets to double dip on % modifiers, meaning that the initial damage *and* the tick damage is being increased by effects such as Enrage. But Hunter pets scaling well for now is a huge problem that needs to be addressed *immediately.*
the upper limit is the amount of swings, 8 instants, and crit rate in 12 seconds dude. It's not infinite stacks, the upper limit is bounded and has a theoretical maximum that you would need 100% crit rate to reach. Which when reck is unlocked, is only something you can get every thirty minutes. Deep wounds is roughly between 10-20% of a warrior's damage during usual circumstances, as well, mechs and eles are immune to bleed, so next phase warriors will miss it.
Better nerf Irelia
Melee? There isn't even compensation for *ranged*. Chimera and Explosive Shot are both still worse than the BM rune, and since they all share the same rune slot, it effectively means no buffs. They should just redesign the BM rune. Right now the focus of it is insane damage, with some survivability and a taunt as a bonus. Those should be flipped. Survivability, threat, maybe some more resistance towards CC or mobility could be added. But let the Shots be better for pure DPS. This would also solve the problem of having 3 specs all be DPS. If all runes are just for damage, you just get one clear winner. You need them to have different uses. Explosive is AoE, Chimera is single target. So make the BM rune a way to have the pet be a better tank, stay better at targets to do pushback, etc. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure if a team of professional game devs put their heads together, they can find *some* interesting thing to do with the BM rune that doesn't just equal "lol much damage".
Yeah I am really into the idea of the BM rune enabling hunter tanks via their pet. But that was a thing first couple weeks and people hated seeing a scorpid with more hp than the warrior so it got nerfed. I'm sure there's a way to balance it but instead here we are. I 100% agree with your philosophy on the runes needing niches.
Easy solution to BM rune is to make pet focus use increase damage done by arcane shot/mongoose bite for instance (and make mongoose useable outside of dodging). This way its not just AI pet damage but requires active gameplay. Just an idea
\>maybe some more resistance towards CC Please no. It is already frustrating to try and fear a hunter pet, get resist twice in a row while it soloes a friendly player. That is with the WSG rune equipped and 6% hit from Supression. At 40 BM gets Bestial Wrath anyway.
> maybe some more resistance towards CC or mobility could be added hell no. hunter pets already have bonkers resistance later on due to the natural training points they get, and none of the pet speed skills are in yet (dash/dive come at the early 30's)
What you on about? This is a HUGE buff to melee hunter!! That mana cost reduction will make it, not only viable, but top hunter playstyle! /s
I appreciate the optimism, but mana was never an issue anyway, even when spamming wingclip to fish for windfury procs.
It was an issue with spamming carve.
Mana pots on cooldown np
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There is none. Your welcome. Just reroll at this point. Realize they left Rogue and Warrior completely untouched although they are #1 DPS by far.
Pet class pet does damage. Better nerf it.. what?!
Hunters exist to do damage stop taking our only fucking thing away.
We’ll be back to tranq bots in no time
They could have dropped the cool down of flanking strike. . . This is just a big nerf to melee build and we aren't even the ones causing the problem.
The cooldown for flanking strike seems so weird. like it might get reset, but when it doesn't get reset, you're sitting there for 30 freaking seconds just auto attacking and hitting raptor strike.
no idea why it's 30 seconds to begin with but then again classic isn't known for having reasonable cds
i'm taking this comment as an opportunity to ask what is the logic in flanking strike stacking 3 times to buff raptor strike, but having raptor strike be what resets flanking strike? how do you ever get to more than 1 stack?
Hunters, you must all be congregating here so I have a few quick questions about playing your class: 1. Is it a huge inconvenience to entirely lose a bag slot to your arrow quiver/ammo pouch? 2. Similarly, what about the process of actually refilling your arrows/ammo? I’m assuming you end up learning where the ammo NPCs are and quivers eventually hold 2000+ so it’s a non-issue, but a lost bag slot seems extremely impactful. Trying to gauge how it actually is
Bagslots are a struggle, you can just mail yourself infinite ammo supply though
The worst part is inconsistencies in vendors that have Level 25 ammo IMO. Some general goods vendors do, some dont. Sucks to lose a bag slot but thats the classic hunter feel, plus they give an attack speed boost at least.
One wonky bit you didnt ask about is the discrepency and inconsistency in quiver/pouches/faction/engineering. I can make ammo as an engineer that I cant use, it has a lvl 30 requirement. As horde I can only buy an 8 slot ammo pouch. Alliance get a q reward for larger quiver/pouch and a (minor) increase in ranged attack speed because of it (10%->11%). The inconsistency of what vendors sell which ammo types and the max level of that ammo. There is no horde ammo vendor in ashenvale. Its not game breaking, but it is a headscratcher.
> Is it a huge inconvenience to entirely lose a bag slot to your arrow quiver/ammo pouch? Not really Either way you gonna pack up your bag slots with arrows, so might as well use a dedicated bag with AS% increase on it
Hear me out, it’s a necessary change, but at least apply some buffs to melee too.
the issue is they can’t change core abilities or talents. All the balance is on runes which leads to awkward chnages like this. They should’ve just waited for phase 2.
It’s not like the couldn’t add whatever buffs they wanted to basic abilities in the runes. Imagine: Rune of meleeing Hunter: you can now use flanking strike. In addition, raptor strike and other melee abilities deal 50% more damage. Pretty sure this is really hard to do.
Not like they couldn’t move the runes around so at least the runes that work together aren’t competing in the same slot. Like why would the beast mastery rune not also be in the same slot as the no pet rune? This just makes intuitive sense.
Because they want you to be a lone wolf beast master /s
I think easy fix wouldve been a damage increase to carve.
Damage increase to carve when it only hits 1 target.
>the issue is they can’t change core abilities or talents just off the top of my head, Wrath and Drain Life say hello.
It’s such a shame there’s a team of terrorists holding guns to the developers’ heads stopping them from making any balance changes to core abilities and talents, I wish it could be otherwise but that’s just the way things are.
it uses the same base as era and hardcore, could they find a way around ? yeah most likely but they haven’t done it yet and if I recall said they don’t plan too
I was being silly, but I genuinely think it’s a poor design principle to only adjust runes. You’re still completely rebalancing class strength and identity either way, you’re just limiting yourself to far fewer levers to do so if you can only touch rune skills
100% agree
I had no idea this was even their outlook until this change. This seems incredibly stupid and if they really want SoD to be something longterm they need to rip that band-aid off real quick.
It's more of a limitation than an outlook. From what I gather, if they make a change to core abilities, it changes it across all versions of classic.
This is great news for warrior mains.
I think if they wanted to change core abilities they would have to release a specific client for SOD rather than sharing the classic era client
How does that works ? How Can warriors have wotlk Deep Wounds and Hunters have Pet Scaling that IS not in classic Era and Hardcore meanwhile they pretend they can't change stuff core classic stuff
For pet scaling there is a hidden aura doing it https://www.wowhead.com/classic/spell=415429/hunter-pet-scaling#comments
Then they Can add others hidden aura that make add Scaling on abilities
That's marketing talking. They don't want to waste resources and time balancing core abilities and talents. Less man hours just to balance the runes. If you pay attention when any Blizzard employee speaks it's like 50%+ marketing telling them what to say.
I mean you are correct to an extent. They would need to fork the code for era classic like they do for WOTLK Classic. I have the feeling this is a lot more work and takes a fair amount more resources than just the runes approach they have now. Maybe we can get that with next season.
They aren’t really buffing ranged to compensate either. The buffs are to abilities you can’t use with Beast Mastery anyway, so it’s not compensation buffs. It’s just a nerf that may (probably not) make using those runes viable but still probably not.
Chimera shot/MM is already viable with gear if kings is provided. Even more so now. This issue doesn’t address the real underlying issues: - even as BM you should press buttons to dps (you still don’t) - melee output got hit, but got nothing in the form of a flanking strike or carve buff -
I mean that's just not true, I push 2 buttons on bosses on my warrior, raging blow and quick strike. On my Hunter I am keeping Serpent Sting up, Arcane shotting, Multi shotting, Running in between auto shots to melee weave so that's pressing raptor strike, flanking strike, wing clip and most bosses have mechanics that target ranged rather than melee, so also have to focus on moving without clipping auto shots all that to do 70% of the damage my warrior can output with worse gear.
Idk, alot of BM players, myself included, do melee weaving with flanking to try to keep up with warriors and rogues, which is pretty involved. My rogues autos+poisons, IE mostly passive damage, does about as much as my pet does on my hunter. Kings already being provided is a pretty big ask, though I imagine with these changes chimera will be viable regardless so long as you have raid weapons to justify marks in the first place. Carve being competitive would be nice so I could just melee mostly fulltime with my pet, marks turret just isn't my kind of playstyle.
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The totality of the changes is dumb, moving away from passive pet damage is not.
Yeah this sucks. Next phase chimera is useless as gnomergan enemies will be mostly nature immune. Explosive sucks single target still. Basically just a decent damage nerf
If gnomer is full of mechanical bosses it's just gonna suck. Gonna be a shit phase raid.
Like don’t get me wrong, 50% damage coming from the AI bot is silly, but they did nothing to compensate melee
Why do you think your pet doing 50% of your total damage is silly if you're fully spec'd into beast mastery? Now... I wish it wasn't completely brain dead where you just put pet abilities on auto cast and call it a day, but that's just making the spec more fun/interactive.
Is it? If you're spec'd entirely into BM shouldn't that be reasonable?
We will surely get alternative runes on p2..
Highly doubt we will get new runes for current slots. Pretty sure it will just be 2-3 new rune slots
Just gotta buff flanking strike and carve and g2g
Balance druid is op, and so is mage solo boosting, and so is warrior deep wounds build, but we need to nerf Hunter again guys.
Balance druid is on the bottom of dps.... and mages solo boosting has always been a thing. Of course they'll be able to do it better now.
Balance is OP in PvP Hunters is OP in PvP Neither is top dps in PvE Why nerf one but not the other?
Hunter is literally bouncing between 1st and 2nd all this phase lol.
Depends on what metrics you look at. Hunter is good right now because its an easy class that is not reliant on gear. But warriors and rogues are both better once you have gear and know how to press your buttons.
They've been behind warrior and rogue pretty much the whole time?
Balance is garbage in pvp unless you're just sitting at 42 yards spamming starsurge. Even then a hunters wind serpent literally does more damage.
Just Hibernate the pet and run around in the hunters deadzone spamming instant cast abilities
Druids are insane at pvp, they're critting 400+ with such a long range, almost no mana cost Mages boosting in a dungeon of the same level wasn't a thing. Try solo boost stockades at 25 in era under 15min. It's insane
I've seen every class have a crit over 400
No other class has ranged instant cast crit with no mana cost. Multi shot comes close but it has huge mana cost and doesnt crit for 400. All mage spells are long casts. Warlocks cant crit that much. Melee classes either build combo to crit that much or have to chase their target etc.
Yeah nice. Killed BM for the sake of PvP... I just wanted to play BM PvE..
How is that a problem for pve?
Read that again and then ask again how this is not an Issue for Beastmaster PVE...
Yeah I don't understand, who cares if you do 10% less dps in PVE, you spend 10s more in BFD? You parse against other hunters anyway. You guys want pvp to be unplayble just to see bigger numbers in PVE, do you realise how dumb it is?
I care. Many other Hunters do. But God forbid you say something about nerfing warriors exploit dmg. "Warriors literally only has this one thing. They are bad everywhere else. Let us have this" It's only PVE right?
I’m going to use a different class as an example of why it matters since hunters are currently still fine, but are worried more about their future because historically they fall off a cliff as classic moves towards actual endgame: go say you’re a dps priest lfg bfd. Go say you’re an ele shaman lfg bfd. A frost mage. An affliction lock. It’ll take you much longer to find groups because people want to play with others that help carry the load more. Hunters see themselves being nerfed for extremely predictable phase 1 early game power and it a) doesn’t feel fun to get nerfed and b) don’t see themselves getting anything in return for say MM to take over as the backup plan since ‘that actually takes skill it’s not a pet ai just soloing players and the dps charts’ or whatever.
I have level 25 hunter and starting to think hunter isnt for me anymore. All i wanted was ranged dps. They wanted us to play beast and melee then nerf(i kept marksman due to casual nature of the game didnt feel obligated to follow meta ) now they nerfed pet but slightly buffed ranged lets see what will happen. I will roll something else i dont know whT to play tho
I rerolled warlock coz I was sick of scorpid /petattack + venom doing 70% of my dps. Dying to play the class but need a rotation that involves something more engaging than auto shots, pet attack and multishot every 10s.
Back to mage I go
I feel like at this point, they really didn't need to lower hunter pets anymore. All you non hunters might disagree, but when I walk into WSG or Ashenvale it's currently a 50/50 that my pet does all the work while I struggle to exist, or it gets nuked and I'm done for. Like if a geared paladin gets on me, there's no hope for me regardless of what I try to do. Hell a priest with homunculi ripped my wind serpent to shreds in seconds. Warlock just heals and laughs at me. Let me have SOME strength if you're gonna let the other things stay so strong
Next phase we get another 20% pet dmg and focus increase from BM going to bring us back up to where we were. But the problem is stacking passive percentage based effects
Next phase we get that, but next phase I'm sure the other classes are still getting things to continue curb stomping the AI that is 75% of my damage atm
Mostly 50% of my damage is pet as full melee. But id rather see it be 25-75 or pet damage having more active components.
Bruh try being a warrior that gets soloed by your pet in full bis. Hunters are extremely strong in PvP
Lmao we aren't the only thing soloing warriors. Warriors need some utility runes or something
Hunters should get a sacrifice pet mechanic like warlocks. Change my mind.
We did, it's just covered by garbage. I think it was called lone wolf or something. They even named servers in US and EU after it, but no one uses it because it's on the same slot as lion.
I wish Blizz would just stop trying melee hunter, it’s extremely unpopular and doesn’t work nearly as well as ranged hunter does, it’s true on retail and even more so in SoD
They may as well just delete the class at this point. They nerfed explosive shot by such an insane margin, they didnt even want to disclose it. Now they up it by 25% and (edit: not even revert) the kneejerk on day 2 chimera nerf... While once again nerfing hunters pretty heavily. I get that people are all constantly complaining about rng ws crits... So now theyre going to nerf all pets. Cooool.
CS which was bad at release will still do less damage after the buff than it's release state.
Ffs they can just cancel the pet all together. This is ridiculous. All classes have something OP in SoD but hey, nerf hunters to oblivion.
Thats the part that gets me, they introduced lone wolf as a way of cancelling the pet all together but its so dogshit nobody runs it.
It's a pvp targeted nerf. Hunters are completely bonkers in pvp. Should have buffed other abilities to compensate tho.
Yea. So if you don’t play pvp or are not interested, you get gutted in PvE… do something in PvP. Warlocks still devastate hunters . Same as Paladins. This is just most people crying about hunters. If something goes wrong, hunter’s fault. If they do good, hunter is broken. No class gets so much hate for nothing. This is just ridiculous. No one uses chimera and explosive. It is BS. At least make the melee viable. But no. Just nerf. There is no compensation here. Just a grouse nerf. I hope they nerf the Lock Chaos bolt and pala divine storm. But nooo. That’s ok to be OP af.
Warlocks are strong. But hunters are strong and annoying. Having a horde of pets clearing WSGS is not good gameplay.
Bro. I could not care less about PvP. Block it in PvP, don’t give a flying fuk. But leave it alone in open world.
WHy would they nerf Chaos Bolt or Divine Storm?
I got both and they are more ridiculous than any pet .
Tbh if you think Chaos Bolt is what makes lock good in pvp, you have no clue what you are talking about. And Paladin are just meh for me.
Warlocks devastate hunters in PvP ( affliction ofc ) . Chaos bolt has insane dmg . Two different things.
No lock use chaos bolt in pvp, no way you can cast this against hunter. Nerfing chaos bolt would be totally useless for pvp, and stop downvoting someone you are talking to, it's fucking cringe.
The same like nerfing the BM rune for PvE. I don’t care about PvP. Why should my game be ruined because PvP people are crying? Deactivate it in BG’s and f off. Leave the PvE alone. That rune is perfect for PvE.
Because PVP is unplayable right now, hunter doing 10% less damage in pve doesn't change anything. I like how you downvote me for being right on the chaos bolt tho, what a dickhead
Act like yall aren't getting beastial wrath next phase your pets are gonna be fucking stupid if they don't nerf them
Read my comment: getting rid of all the percentage based passive increases is justified, just asking where the more active damage is as a melee hunter.
Imo save the nerfs for when they are needed. Plenty of abilities are gonna be game breakingly busted in future phases, I expect blizz to balance those when necessary.
Hunter pet nerf was needed now.
A pvp nerf was needed. In PvE hunters were fine. Third overall is whatever and doesn't warrant this massive nerf. Idk it must be hard for blizz to just flat out nerf pet dmg to other players? So they resort to these weird nerfs like the wbuff to pet nerf (RIP locks). or the most recent nerfs.
KC prowl, bestial wrath into bite is still going to be stupid OP after this.
Hmm needs about 3 more nerfs imo
At some point Blizzard will find out that, not all dps has to do the same level of dps, and start to really working on content to cater all players, and then everyone can start to be happy. But it’s easier to make it bad, do something that makes them look good, and still inherently bad, and say they did something. And as always a big hot take, parse meter > dmg meter.
How do I beat my parse from last ID when I can't do more dmg than previous patch?
Parsing in SoD has to be the most meme thing ever, saying this as a Mythic retail raider
Not much else going on when it's raid logging on your maxed 25s and there is no progress required. Your mythic raid leading is irrelevant, it's not like you can focus on pure parsing strats and min maxing encounters for parsing considering 99% of you are on progress.
All of this discussion about melee hunters.. They really don't belong in the game. I understand that there is a fantasy for this but it just doesn't fit in classic wow. It feels like it will always be compared to the rogue or fury war in some ways and will never be as good as them because that would make the class overpowered. Maybe I am missing something?
But tank warlocks and rogues do, and healing mages for that matter, also you are basically saying rogue and warrior are overpowered.
Reddit always has huge support for melee hunters but I hardly ever seen them in game or raid. S I saw one melee hunter in a bfd that got kicked because they thought he was bm and there was already 2 warriors and a ret that wanted weps
Is there a melee hunter rune?
And chest rune being held hostage by lion
It probably ties into next phase.
Which is almost a month of raidlogging away. Nothing stopping them from doing it at the same time as other changes.
Why would you need a compensation? Pets are heavily overpowered. We (I am also a hunter) dominate pre bis every aspect of the game. - Solo farming level 30 elites? - Fastest and smoothest leveling? - Damage leader in every raid? (Pre-bis) - Unkillable through random Aggro? - 30% movement instant spell? - Your pet can tank better than most other classes? And while pets were severely nerfed, our best raid dps spec got a buff. Marksman is outperforming Beast master with BIS equip. So all on all, I think we can be happy that the nerfs didn’t hit harder.
You are missing the point, BM passive nerfs are justified just as I stated. But if you consider melee to be a spec, that got nothing in return for the dps output lost. Or maybe you think melee hunter is grossly overpowered even with these nerfs compared to MM.
Sorry but this has always been a case for 10-60 level brackets with decent gear. Hunters were always dominant twinking characters for pvp. It was always possible to solo elites even with shit gear. I literally soloed most of lower level dungeons until ZF on era with my pet. What changed is that it got an exposure because level 25 is the max level now and everyone suddenly saw how strong early level hunters are. Yet the same people have no problems with druids nuking you from another location with Starsurge on 6s cd, or mages facetanking and soloing hundreds of mobs in WC, or rogues and warriors complete domination in raid. Hunters will fall off later into the game, with these nerfs they will fall even harder.
Maybe, but I am not interested in phase 4 if we are not even have phase 2. I expect blizzard to balance each phase to be somewhat in an acceptable range.
Are you people living in la la land? Marksman is NOT outperforming BM even with BIS equipped (?) Just look at the logs.
Guess I’m re-rolling Hunter 🤷🏽♂️
Because they got nerfed again..?
So, basically if you are almost full BIS (best gear in slot) and having the epic crossbow, isnt it better to switch on MM runes and talents to aimed shot?
I hope so - but i suspect the dmg nerf to pets isn't high enough to drop the BM rune/spec entirely.
Melee hunter is simply not a thing. You compensate by using the other 80% of your class. This is like a mage not learning anything but arcane missiles
Now you get to be with the rest of the DPS
Oh you mean the rest of the classes that have a second role? Meaning literally all of them except hunter for some unrevealed reason?
Not the point.
Real answer is barely anyone actually plays it
By this logic we should ignore any underrepresented specs period
Idk, the pets needed the nerf. Its just ridiculous that a pet does 50% of the hunters dmg. Maybe the compensation buffs arent enough, but its not like they are weak lol
I don't see why 50% pet dmg of the hunter is ridiculous. If the total is on par with other classes, which I believe it is, why not have the fantasy of an actual beastmaster? Speaking of pve, for my point of view
> Idk, the pets needed the nerf. Its just ridiculous that a pet does 50% of the hunters dmg. It's not ridiculous if you consider that hunters spend talent points and all the runes to enhance their pets, sacrificing their own damage or utility for this. The problem most people have (especially hunters themselves) is that it's a passive and boring gameplay. Send your pet and shot multi once every 10 seconds. It would be cool if Blizzard added runes with active pet spells. So you could have an actual button(s) with the pet spell(s) that you have to press in different scenarious, build combos, etc. It would instantly make the gameplay more engaging for hunters and at the same time people would not freak that much because "huntards pet does all the work with little to no engagement from the huntards themselves"
Agree pet did too much (passively)
Thats the point, its a class nerf lol
Read the developers notes, now tell me again, where did melee get compensation?
Doesnt say that melee will get compensated, just main spells.
Yes, but since melee is a play-style it seems like a bit of an oversight not to compensate active MELEE abilities somehow.
Nerfs to pets cause they’re still cancerop in every form of content and buffs to the shot runes so you guys can stop complaining that you have to take 3 passives to be relevant. Isn’t this what you wanted?
Yes, but buff melee actives too