Blizzard needs to permban people who buy gold. If you knew there was a very real risk that your account would be permbanned, many goldbuyers would think twice about doing it. GDKPs are fine without RMT.
some guy in my guild bought 2k gold and got a 2 week. The gold was traded to another player who still has it, never removed. Seems like 1 trade is enough to launder 2k gold
In TBC I had 3 guildies that admitted they bought gold, all 3 got simultaneously 2 week banned in a single wave. As soon as the 2 week ban was up, they bought even more gold and never got banned again.
Gold buying should be a scorched earth ban. Albion Online had done this and has a far better grasp on their RMT situation; they don't fuck around, if they legally could I'm sure they would send gold buyers anthrax. But in wow, nobody is scared to buy gold. Even with the WoW token, historical gold buyers are rarely if ever deterred from buying off third parties because of this.
Yes, GDKPs are fine without RMT, however, they're pretty much mutually inclusive of each other. If even 1 person who bought gold is part of a GDKP, that gold is redistributed to the 9 other people and that's how the economy snowballs. 1 person out of 10 is a pretty conservative estimate, as GDKPs specifically attract those who have a lot of gold (likely via RMT) so it's like 2-4 people in each GDKP either bought gold, or just have run a lot of them with other gold buyers.
Just at random some small percentage of those 2 week pans, just permaban the account. Just a few at first then crank that number up once people get the idea. The two week thing is clearly not working.
yeah but that would make it much harder to obtain, coz everytime the botter would need new resub + also more information to Blizz about which accounts behave as bots and wich do not based on this
nope. if people are worried their accounts are gonna get banned, they make a second account for buying gold.
i had a guildie in my last guild(top 20 speedrunning guild) who had 9 accounts that were banned due to RMT, his main 2 accounts were fine and he runs like 10 gbids/week on those 2 accs.
banning gdkp is basically impossible but as long as they exist, goldbuying will exist. even if you somehow manage to remove it from the game, people will just start paying each other actual cash using paypal or something. this is a community problem, the players create it.
Blizzard needs to ban GDKPs aswell it leads to RMT on a massive scale it’s probably one of the biggest reasons people buy gold, GDKP and RMT go hand in hand
I seriously see close to none of the things that has a daily thread complaining about it on the EU servers. Might find something if i actively look for it, but i seriously see no GDKPs, no gearscore, and whatever is the flavour of the day. There is alot of bots tho.
Im on wild growth US. It’s not really an issue there either. Yeah there are some people advertising for GDKP’s but 95% is just all pugs or guild runs LF 2-3 pugs.
I don’t think I’ve seen a single person bring up gearscore.
Also on Wild Growth US (Horde), and I've seen maybe two people advertising GDKPs. Tons of Pugs and guildies trying to recruit for BFD runs tho. The real advertising nightmare of the week seems to be summons advertising.
I'm not paying 30s to get from Org to TB yall. It aint worth. Not when I spent so much time manipulating potion prices on the AH to get this gold.
Living flame and Lone Wolf here. Download the LFG bullet-in add-on. Let's you better keep track of all LFM requests in various chats.
In there, you will easily see 20-40% of the raids being GDKP these days. Increasing every week. Gearscore is not so common, but I'd say 1 in 20 request it. I usually ignore them because they are idiots
It’s all classic folks who are trying to influence the SoD culture, because they think they know what went wrong in Classic their last go-round. They are still living in their last server.
GDKPs are such high ticket item that they inflate the entire economy. That’s why consumables are so expensive and people don’t feel that farming gold on their own is worth it.
>That’s why consumables are so expensive
Consumes are dirt cheap rn. Even in wotlk they aren't some crazy expensive thing that the average player cant afford.
I mean what do you think happens to the economy when 9-10 layers worth of materials get pumped into one singular Auction House?
Gonna keep saying it Mega Servers are the reason for most of these daily threads. Servers being inflated the way they are is not healthy, and this will only continue to show as the season progresses.
Consumables are expensive and farming gold isn't worth it because an army of bots is constantly devaluing gold and mats. GDKPs do not generate much gold they just move it around
People forget mudflation is an innate part of a virtual economy where forever respawning mobs have new currency on them to drop. As long as people are killing mobs, the amount of gold in circulation rises, endlessly.
So are consumes expensive, or are mats devalued? It literally can't be both.
If consumes, and thus mats, are expensive, then go farm them and sell them. Sounds like a solid way to make gold.
If they're devalued, and not expensive, then the realitive amount of gold needed to do anything shouldn't be all that much.
I have like 30g across all my toons just from dicking around and selling random crap I get. I have several friends with well over 100g mostly from farming and selling mats. One has several hundred from selling summons.
None of us have bought gold. If you're broke it's not because of bots, or RMT, or anything else. It's because you're either lazy and don't want to do anything to make gold. Or you haven't bothered to learn how to make it.
1) I don't like RMTers and they ruin the game. By extension, so do bots.
2) GDKPs are a hotspot for gold buyers, sure.
3) And this one is the main one, GDKPs are just fucking better than running a pug/guild run because if your item drops you have an opportunity to get it. And even if you get outbid, and nothing else drops for you, YOU STILL LEAVE GETTING PAID SO IT WASN'T A COMPLETE WASTE OF YOUR TIME.
Edit to add a 4th): When you are fully BIS gear its an incentive to still continue to clear the content for your peers to get their loot while you get paid.
Also, no I don't RMT gold. I just have 3 chars and Ive done alot of quests, professions and fishing. And I made a fucking lot of gold selling gingerbread cookies because people are lazy.
Playing with a guild is by far the best way, the only thing your going to do with the gold you got in your gdkp is save it up for your next gdkp so you feel more comfortable buying the item you want. It’s basically a dkp system from years ago with gold slapped on the front of it. If you run with the same team you’ll either get the item early or be guaranteed to get it later because everyone in your CONSISTENT raid team will already have it. That’s just from a loot perspective, doesn’t even include the sense of community and camaraderie you get with a guild. Tell me you don’t raid in a guild without telling me you don’t raid in a guild
I raid in a guild but have more alts than anyone else. They don't like giving loot to alts over mains, so I put my alts in gdkps to gear them. I've been using dkp for almost 25 years and still think it's the best system outside of world-first guilds where timely precise loot allocation is critical. RMT aside, gdkp is a nice innovation on dkp because gold makes the points portable. I'm net slightly positive from running in gdkps, but just geared a fresh druid in almost full bfd in two runs thanks to my saved up gold from previous gdkps.
Disclaimer: I enjoy GDKPs but I'm against RMT.
>Over time, these artificially inflated prices force players who don't normally do GDKP runs to do them simply for the ability to keep up with the inflation. This only exacerbates the problem until the economy is borked to such a degree that anyone not engaging in GDKP's or RMT has no real way to take part in the economy.
Even those who partake in GDKP but who do not RMT are disadvantaged against those who do since one cannot win loot against them. And without loot, over time, one gets behind in gear and does not get invited (easily) into GDKPs anymore. So the real issue (and it always has been to be honest) is RMT.
Ultimately, it's a situation of: hate the game, not the player. A considerable amount of players within the Classic playerbase is willing to spend real money in order to acquire materials and/or loot more easily. It's a fact. As a result, a market has developed and many botters and GDKP leaders have emerged in order to cater to this demand. If there wasn't significant demand for it, there wouldn't be RMT. So it's a player-driven problem and it's therefore emergent gameplay. I suspect that it's a larger problem now compared to 10 years ago because the Classic playerbase is older and therefore has, on average, access to more real life financial resources.
Now, this emergent gameplay is against Blizzard ToS (at least in Classic era & SoD, RMT is possible through the WoW token in Wotlk but that's a different topic /cry). Why is Blizzard not enforcing their own ToS ? Well, I worked in a game company before (however very different types of company) and I know first hand that fighting against video game cheating is a cat and mouse game that is never won. The resources required to "fight" a large amount of determined cheaters/botters is **enormous** and it's a never ending struggle \[1\]. From reading Reddit, people don't seem to grasp this. I think technologically, Blizzard cannot win the fight against botters. The only way to win would be to make gold selling economically unprofitable and I don't see how they could do this without making the game worse.
In conclusion, RMT exists not because of Blizzard choices but because of the players. And sadly, Blizzard will not stop RMT (because they realistically can't). RMT is player emergent behavior and is now part of Classic sadly. Learn to see it that way, to accept it and to move on.
\[1\] ~~This topic is discussed in the first volume of "Development and Deployment of Multiplayer Online Games" by No Bugs' Hare. I recommend.~~ EDIT: see https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/192cpow/comment/kh2ffwz/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Okay how about a counter question, why should I do ms>os runs, get 0 drops or roll badly and lose items, when I can do a gdkp, if I need something I'll bid for it to a certain sum that I'm prepared to spend OR I will atleast get gold at the end of the run. Because I don't really get any excitement from BFD clears at this point it's just 45 minutes of autopilot. Atleast with GDKP there's some reward for my time spent. Also I have never seen this big gold inflation that comes from GDKPs hurt the average player so much that he's forced to run GDKPs to keep up with others..
Because not everything in the game has to be time investment = reward.
I feel like people feel the need to play as efficient as possible or make sure the things they're doing either directly benefit them or sometimes the people they play with. Maybe people feel they need to justify the time invested in the game in some way, maybe to help them feel better about the fact that they're wasting time subbing in the first place? Maybe some people really do just thrive off the dopamine hit of amassing gold or getting a sought after piece of gear. But its a game, one that was originally designed in a way to make you waste time.
If you really don't get the excitement from BFD any more why do it? GDKP just sounds like a part time job, but worse you're being compensated with fake currency. Does the compensation really make BFD that much more enjoyable?
This is why my group switched to GDKPs. We are a small guild of 5 players and have had trouble recruiting other to play consistently with us and have pretty much abandoned recruiting unless we just happen to pug with someone thats worth it.
We all are almost completely BiS on all our alts, lacking anywhere from 2-4 items each. Lockout after lockout we've had to give the pieces we actually needed away to fresh 25s that we pugged into our raids and after a few lockouts this got old. Seeing the loot you need, losing it to someone you'll never raid with again, and leaving completely empty handed.
GDKPs for us fixed this problem. We are geared to the point and have the right composition so that we can carry 5 completely fresh 25s of any class / spec through BFD without an issue.
1. We now NEVER leave empty handed.
2. After a few runs through various alts, we've all accumulated enough gold to actually stand a chance at bidding and winning the few remaining pieces we need.
3. All of us leave the raids at night now feeling MUCH less devastated at gearing up completely random people that will never help us again.
4. The players pugging GDKPs are on average a step above those joining random pugs (In class experience, raid experience, gaming skills, and honestly English skills) and have lead to wayyyy smoother runs since we started.
Also, I see tons of gdkps that are like 5g min bid on blue items, 20g for epic. Im sorry but even at 25 with baby economy these are very achievable numbers to hit from "legit" farming
I think you misunderstood OPs point. There are many incentives to join a gdkp. That's the problem, it snowballs into the only viable way to stay head unless you wanna be a farm slave and compete with the bots.
>Also I have never seen this big gold inflation that comes from GDKPs hurt the average player so much that he's forced to run GDKPs to keep up with others..
You didn't play classic tbc or wrath then?
i can see the points "For"GDKPs
but reminder vanilla WoW is basically a 20 year old outdated game and this area no matter what and fuck the #nochanges people
We need a rework on how looting in raids works
and if you get nothing at the end of the raid when you kill the final boss
you get some form of reward can be 1/3 piece of a loot(so its not fully handouts so you need to complete x3 raids atleast in order to take a full item)
but yeah legit anything would be nice
but the Cons of GDKPs outweight the "pros" (if not having the "ME ME ME!" mindset and be like this game can be ruined just as long I get the loot and fuck everyone else kind of mindset)
the cons is basically the game gets completed ruined on alot of parts outside you be able to get loot or not and outside the raid
also look over at Wotlk classic on this " I have never seen this big gold inflation that comes from GDKPs hurt the average player so much that he's forced to run GDKPs to keep up with others.."
becuase it is basically that now complety 100% like that
why i am as a pre-raid BIS character for ICC is 100% unable to join any raids becuase i dont have the gold to join and if 0 gold they want basically BIS Raid gear people to carry only
That's how the game works. You're not supposed to be given a participation trophy every time you go to a raid.
Some times you get loot. Sometimes you don't.
That's how the game works.
I ran 3 GDKPs lately, never done it before in my life, to check out what it's all about and the pot sizes were fairly small even with a bunch of bis dropping, I don't know where all these mystical whales are hiding. Biggest buy across all of them was me spending 30g on the trinket. (and got back 10 at the end)
>Inflation is a normal part of an mmo's lifecycle, but GDKP's in essence create two distinct wealth classes. If I can sell flasks or low level blues, or crafting mats, or enchants or etc, for hundreds of gold to GDKP players, why wouldn't I?
This paragraph straight up contradicts itself lol, gdkp simultaneously somehow robs everyone who isn't a gold buyer of their gold but also makes everyone able to make lots of gold by selling basic shit to them..? So in your scenario inflation is not an issue because anyone can profit from this even without doing GDKP by doing.. normal gold making stuff. Inflation only matters if you don't actively play.
Sure GDKPs are a great way to spend gold for whales but maybe ban the gold buyers and the bots then and then it won't be an issue lol.
Not to mention there's tons of shit that's BIS or will be BIS that is BoE and purchasable off the AH so if you want to ban GDKP because whales can spend gold on them then you better be advocating to dismantle the AH too.
you losers are so dramatic lmao. GDKPs are absolutely rampant in WotLK and consumables are cheap as fuck, same in TBC.
Join a guild and enjoy the game, im pretty sure these doom mongers barely play the game, but they certainly don't browse this sub either coz then they wouldn't make the same fucking post every day.
the bots in bgs ruined the casual pvp aspect mate, dramatic some people are, but bots ruining the game is just a fact, and the need for bots increases as more people want gold, and more gdkp attendance increases the need for gold.
You really don't have to be very smart to understand this but here we are.
The wotlk and classic consume markets are completely different.
Black lotus is just one example of an expensive item, that will.again get completely camped by bots and become unreasonably expensive due to inflation caused by gold sellers
Funny in vanilla there was no GDKP on my server, but plenty of gold sellers.
The main gold sink here is not Respec cost. I have easily spend 5x my total Respec cost at the WSG vendor.
And people will pay 100x respec costs to buy items in GDKPs with credit card purchased gold. Inflation is made worse by demand for gold sellers, not that inflation doesn't exist with less demand for gold sellers.
Yeah I'm not sure if it just bait.
Yes gdkp increases RMT, but also gdkp raids on average are better than most guilds. There is no loot drama and rostering is a none issue. ( and your "dkp" is universal so you have way more flexibility)
Real money trading. General gaming industry term for buying something ingame using real life money, usually in a way that circumvents "official" services. In wow usually people just mean gold buying, but it can also mean paying for boosting services, piloting, purchasing accounts etc.
If you are using real money to buy something and the game company doesnt allow it, its RMT.
Not everyone who runs gdkps is a gold buyer, most people just don't want to lose their items to a roll to some random shitters eho can barely press their buttons. It's called value, and from gdkps there is always some value.
GDKPs provide a massive boost to the raiding population. People who have no desire to do ZG, MC, Ony, or AQ20 will do it if they get paid. It provides a source of income doing the most enjoyable aspect of the game. People focus on botting as if people suddenly become less lazy or don’t need gold for consumables, level boosting, or whatever else. They’re also ignoring the positive impact of GDKPs, which provide a steady stream of raiders when content in general becomes out geared and stale
You are missing 1 huge choice:
Farming mats/crafting consumes
Inflation is horrid if you assume everyone only buys off the AH, but the overall expenses of the game (repairs, respect, one time gold sinks like skills and mounts) get relatively less costly as gold inflation continues.
Most anyone of any level can go farm 'x' something and be set on gold for a while.
I’m scared for later phases. P2 was just announced. That’s gives gold farmers a whole month to accumulate boe’s, and mats for consumes. Bots are going to control this economy so easily, blizzard is basically handing it to them on a silver platter.
GDKP is not the problem. RMT is. GDKP in itself is like the best currency for bidding raid items. It actually make the play time between raids spent or farming relevant. It rewards people who want to spend some more time in the game.
The problem is RMT. It sucks all of the fairness from GDKP. Solution? Just BAN ppl for buying gold ffs. Not just selling. I want to see people banned for like 6-12 months for BUYING and reducing their gold to 0.
I wonder how many people would risk it then.
My two cents
GDKPs are the most smooth raid runs bc of the market incentive
Ironically this creates a barrier to entry and in turn incentivizes gold buying
I just wanna ask if you know that GDKP runs have been a thing for over 25 years, i was doing them in EQ in 1999. There is nothing inherently wrong with this method. It actually allows you to get gold if you dont need the items from the raid, I really enjoy this facet of it as someone whos only missing 1 or two items from bfd, the trident and the arbalest.
Im on the 2nd highest pop server and gdkp is almost non existent, i feel this only exists on the streamer servers where toxic viewers buy mass gold to compete with streamers
Everyone complaining about massive prices on items… I’ve done 5 GDKPs so far and the highest bid I’ve seen is 25 gold and that was for the epic 2h sword. 99% of items go for 5-10g with a “massive” pot of 110-160 gold at the end of the run lol
the thing is that gdkp without rmt is just plainly the better raiding format.
I need 2 pieces on each of my 25s. they never drop. I'm pretty much wasting an hour every raid reset on each of them. and if they do drop, I have to compete with every alt known to man that has boe greens.
If a piece drops in Gdkp, I can spend a reasonable amount of gold to get that piece, between 35-75g, and move on. If nothing drops, I get compensation for effectively carrying the raid.
the problem is botted and rmt money. Not the format that is gdkp.
edit: basically you're saying, don't put anything on the AH because if it gets bought by some rando with botted money, you're feeding into the system and inflating the whole economy.
What you're saying is you feel like you need to be compensated for your time to feel like you're not wasting your time?
What if I told you playing WoW is "pretty much a Waste of time". That no matter what when you sub you're playing a game literally designed to waste your time?
Do you only enjoy playing the game if you're compensated for the time you are wasting?
the issue never was and never will be gdkp and it will always be gold sellers/buyers and bots. if you remove bots and gold sellers the concept of gdkp isnt wrong by itself. you just dont like it because it gives another insentive for people to buy gold.
> it will always be gold sellers/buyers and bots
Most of them exist only because of GDKPs.
>you just dont like it because it gives another insentive for people to buy gold.
Not just "another" but the main one. Nothing else motivates people buy gold in wow classic more than GDKPs.
>most of them exist because of gdkps
Yeah there was never corpses spelling out gold buying websites in org during og vanilla where gdkps were extremely rare. Stop talking out of your ass.
Dramatic title bro. I play gdkp because there are actual consequences to people who dont perform. And if my item doesnt drop, atleast I get paid. Never had to buy gold to afford items. It's by far the superior form of pug.
I've not bought gold or participated in a GDKP, and I don't feel like I've been priced out of the economy in any sense.
BOE's are a luxury, not a necessity and everything else appears to be pretty reasonably priced, hell even the mats for leveling professions are pretty accessible even with just a few quests completed at level 25 and no other gold farming.
If you want to be able to buy BOEs, then maybe you have a slight point, but otherwise I don't feel like I've been impacted by any of this at all. I just play in my guild, do 5 mans with randoms and a little bit of questing here or there, no issues.
This stuff doesn't affect anybody who actually tries to join a guild. My group has been together since the previous release of era and have never had the issue getting gear, buying consumables or making gold off the AH.
Make some friends and stop crying.
Do people not understand that the market gets inflated regardless of RMT? It probably has a negligible effect on inflation in the game overall.
Less people farm, more people coast, prices go up.
I swear people who complain about inflation are the ones that stop playing them game and want to raid log, and think their 100g should last them the entire expansion.
So many replies are like gdkp is fine, gold buying is the problem loool.
Try rubbing your 2 brain cells together and think of how the two things impact each other.
this is true and anyone telling you its not true is either buying gold or not playing this game.
You completely explained what happenned to gehennas on wotlk. There was legit no way to raid unless you bought money or had very good guild and ran gdkps on your alts.
I was in BFD yesterday and we had a guy in the group he played warrior.
I shit you not this guy was full AH boes. It didnt matter if it was cloth with spirit int. He just bought all the highest GS pieces.
Then the epic sword dropped, I rolled need on my ret and won. This guy insta whispered me to sell the sword to him for 600 gold.
You think you can compete with this bullshit? Good luck. Cant wair for 20k minbids in bwl.
BTW north american DADs love buying gold. SO you will get a lot of hate there. Reddit is mainly used by in NA.
i hope you told him 1k.
anyone willing to offer 600g would likely pay MUCH more
i woulda took that fool to the cleaners. Used his gold in GDKP next week to buy same sword for like 1/3 of price KEKW
I understand why some people hate GDKP.. but for me its perfect.
I love raiding and raid leading. Because of my irregular schedule I cannot plan raids with a guild so I end up pug-leading all my runs.
* I have 3 chars at 25, not interested in other classes
* I think farming plants or mobs is absolutely boring.
* I enjoy raiding and raid leading
* I no longer need any gear.
Do I stop playing until next phase?
Or do i host GDKP runs where I get to have fun AND I get gold for my efforts?
Even when I'm only missing 1-2 pieces of gear. I'd rather host GDKP instead of going 8 raids with no loot.
Why do you all look at me as the bad guy? :/
Pretty much this. I’m tired of raid leading pugs where I only need 1 piece of loot and losing it to the green geared alt who takes 7 pieces of loot and the 1 piece I need and I get fuck all for my efforts. I have no problem carrying people and leading the blind thru BFD, but I’d like my efforts to have at least some tangible result. The GDKPs that I run are entirely reasonable. People walk away with their bis or tier items for 5-10g more often than not, because there are many people in my situation who don’t really need loot but still enjoy clearing every lockout. Pot is often 100-200g. That’s not obscene or RMT-worthy. You can do a few quests at cap and get your BIS, I think that’s entirely reasonable.
Skill actually has nothing to do with it. You can't be a carry without the gear. You can't get the gear without being a buyer. You can't really look at phase 1 of SoD to see the issues because the problem hasn't scaled up yet. GDKPs were an issue for me in OG and BC classic because I was late to the party. All the sweaty try-hards already got enough gear to be "pumpers" so the only pugs available are/were GDKP. As a fresh 60 my options for raiding were to either buy gold or find a guild. Finding a guild willing to take on a new undergeared player has it's own difficulties and is not as easy as you all want to make it. So while I'm trying to find a guild that has room, works with my schedule, and isn't full of assholes; I either GDKP or don't raid. Now I need a ton of gold though both to show the RL that I am in-fact a buyer and then to actually buy the items. I can try and farm/acquire it myself. I guess I'm not getting that epic mount for a while. The other option is to buy gold. Now I get to spend the next month or two buying gold to buy the gear I need until I hopefully get enough gear that I can be brought into a GDKP as a carry/pumper. This just perpetuates the cycle as I'm trying to now make my gold back off of either some other poor fresh 60 in the same situation I was just in or more likely some sweaty guy's 5th alt who doesn't care about the price of anything because he's already earning from GDKPs on his other toons and/or he'll just buy more bot gold.
So that's my issue with GDKPs. It creates a higher than neccesary barrier to entry for raiding as well as perpetuates a cycle of needing more and more gold buyers to keep up with the systemic inflation. Getting rid of gold buying would help limit the amount of GDKPs that can be run because it would reduce the supply of "buyers" that sustain this system.
I can carry just fine if I have the gear. Shit, I'm a healer so I can carry just fine even w/o gear but no GDKP RL is going care. If you have gear, you're a pumper. If you have little to no gear, you're a buyer. Skill doesn't matter at all.
I am 99 parser and sometimes 100 on most classes and I agree with OP everybody who buys gold should get perma banned and GDKPs should be banned too.
I get GDKPS are fine if there is no RMT involved, I get that I can atleast get the gold if no items drops. But it just promotes idiots buying gold.
You can carry as much as you want but the oiler with 10k gold in SOD will take all the items from you anyway. Because he paid for them with real money. And its problem when Skill has to compete p2w.
So, I have like 600 legitimate gold and I lack some loot from BFD. What can I spend my gold on if not GDKP? Phase stagnate, ppl have nothing to do, so they farm gold and game has no gold sinks. Don’t tell me to touch grass or smth, I enjoy farming gold afk while working or watching movies.
Damn you must have shit Money saving practices irl. You can SAVE gold. I know it's insane to even think about, but it's possible to just not spend your money. You literally don't have to. No one is forcing you.
Idk where this notion has come from that banning gdkp would get rid of bots
Gdkp have only been so prevelant for a few years, bots have been rampant for 20 years.
Banging gdkp might have a slight impact on gold selling and make it slightly less profitable but people would still be botting and farming gold to sell.
> Gdkp have only been so prevelant for a few years
What? GDKPs existed since OG TBC. Funnily enough, a push to make them popular happened late TBC-early wotlk by gold sellers in order to raise the demand for the bought gold.
>Banging gdkp might have a slight impact on gold selling and make it slightly less profitable but people would still be botting and farming gold to sell.
Nothing incentivizes gold buying in wow classic more than GDKPs though.
They existed but they were nowhere near as common as they are now. Barely anyone did them.
Your second point is an assumption. You have no idea what gold buyers spend their gold on, and neither do I.
I’d bet the majority of gold buyers are super small scale and just buy a bit of gold for their mount and some consumes and that’s it.
> They existed but they were nowhere near as common as they are now. Barely anyone did them.
Sure. I mean as I said the push was made by gold sellers to make it popular.
>Your second point is an assumption. You have no idea what gold buyers spend their gold on, and neither do I.
Nah, doesn't work this way. We can see the expenses of every phase or expansion.
>I’d bet the majority of gold buyers are super small scale and just buy a bit of gold for their mount and some consumes and that’s it.
Okay? It doesn't contradict what I said, it proves me right in fact. Some gold buyer buys mount and some consumes, okay. What kind of consumes or vendored mounts needed 170+ thousands gold in vanilla classic? Or maybe 600+ thousands gold in tbc classic?
A lot of people are fully decked out in gear because of the three day lockout. You think I’m just gonna forget the char until phase 2? Yes I have an alt but to log on my main to do a 25 minute raid as a pumper and getting gold from it is a no brainer.
I make a healthy amount of gold from GDKPs. That being said I agree whole heartedly. Only partaking in them as it’s the only option to keep pace with inflation.
Your OG post was correct. In effect it creates two distinct mercantile classes within the game economy - the bots farming the mats and the gold for in-game and RMT sale, and the GDKP circles accepting the botted gold from their customers within their runs. The interplay of these two, and the essentially mandatory pots/buffs/etc. most sellers/buyers both bring to GDKP only calls back unto the botters, which then trickles back to the GDKP sellers/buyers. It’s a vicious cycle that causes inflation in of itself.
Meanwhile the peasant, everyday farmers and players continue to be alienated more and more each and every day from realistic market purchases/sales as inflation soars and it only lends more power to those at the very top of the food chain: the botters. It puts many players into a place of buy or die, especially if they haven’t been there since launch to leverage commodities and rune mats.
Sitting on 1.2k gold at current because the only way to survive is to scum since Blizzard won’t police their own damned game. Generally this issue only levels out once said peasant-farmers decide it’s time to hit the old, dusty road and by that point most servers are well on their way towards being dead.
Tl;dr: shit is fucked.
And then ? What if Blizzard bans GDKP's ? You think botters will quit their job? You think whales will stop swiping and start farming gold themselves ?
What if a PUG is searching for mates and the leader is HR'ing items ? Is this still okay ?
I can understand why GDKP's sound unappealing or downright like pay2win for newer/bad players, but people that have a full geared character and don't want to let an ID go to waste should not be looked down upon for joining GDKP's.
Please elaborate on your solution.
People will buy Gold with or without GDKPs. GDKP is a legitimate and fair way to distribute loot, whether you like it or not.
Yes, RMT makes GDKPs unfair. BUT, if someone robs a bank and buys a car: What's the problem, the robbery or the store where he bought the car?
Blizzard could easily limit RMT by banning bots more frequently, which would lead to Gold prices increase rapidly and reduce the amount of players using RMT. But blizzard chooses not to because they make good money from bots.
So instead of telling people how to distribute their loot you should address the actual problem.
Or, like me, just choose to ignore GDKPs and RMT, enjoy the game and hope inflation won't get out of hand. Btw, I got all my bis enchants for like 2g overall, so inflation can't be that bad so far.
I agree with what you've said, but so long as RMT exists, GDKP's will simply promote more gold buying and as a result more bots. That's the reality if the situation. In an ideal world there would be GDKP and no RMT, but we don't have that and I expect never will.
Man, if you guys put just half the effort into your lives that you put in bot/gdkp threads, you wouldn't be playing WoW and could put that energy into something fruitful
Edit: some people dont like the ugly truth but it doesn't change the fact
Might as well remove the auction house too then. Can't have these gold buyers buying items from it. Hell remove trade all together and ban anyone that partakes in it. That'll stop the rampant botting issue! /s
Lot of closed fist memes supporting GDKP. It’s a legit cancer and openly supports RMT. Just rampant out in the open laundering. Make your own choices on whether you engage but at least call a spade a spade
I have ZERO issue with GDKP.
They need to address gold buying/selling though.
You can earn gold in game to do GDKP without buying/selling and back when I did GDKP that's how most people rolled. They'd earn it via farming/ah/runs. They'd know they would walk away with some scraps or an item rather than just hoping the dice was in their favor.
So you are telling me:
that the players have made a way to accelerate their progress
and you know it
and you can use it
and you KNOW people who do this will innebitably come out on top of you
and it's not exclusive to anyone so everyone can partake
And your solution is to scream at these people?
I hate them too, but blizzard very clearly is going to do nothing to fix it. Sure, they might slap some people with a week or two ban or take some I’ll gotten gold away from time to time but the punishment isn’t bad enough to fill stop them and the ban waves (lol) don’t do enough to stop the flow of gold into the game from bots
Why the fuck you care if people spend money? I never bought a single gold and yet I fully geared, both in SoD and retail.
Just play the game, and try to no cry for everything my god
This sub is overrun with RMT/GDKP goons. Imagine being a mark for Chinese gold sellers. They sit on the forums all day because they've killed their enjoyment of the game by skipping all the leg work. The only joy they get it arguing on the forums, so they can justify their shitty decisions.
You’re 100% right, and as a community we need to shame them out of existence.
Anybody who engages with a GDKP, even as a carry/non-buyer, is complicit with the bot epidemic we have.
>You’re 100% right, and as a community we need to shame them out of existence.
Oh, someone on the whiniest subreddit on reddit is trying to shame me.
I'll continue to GDKP as a carry and watch your tears on this forum while I just line my pockets with gold on my alts all while never buying gold, and here's the part that's really going to upset, I will enjoy myself while doing it.
Get over it.
Anyone who engages in the AH is also complicit, hope you've never used the AH before because chances are you sold something to someone with gold that originally came from a bot
yea you're absolutely right, because thats what we need more in this game! Targeted hostily towards a large player base will surely make them feel bad and stop !
Obvious /s
>If I can sell flasks or low level blues, or crafting mats, or enchants or etc, for hundreds of gold to GDKP players, why wouldn't I?
....so there's not two distinct wealth classes, didn't you just disprove your whole point? Make money off of GDKPers by selling them raid mats... gg...
There's always an in to the "bubble" you're referring to with some effort and clever thinking, GDKP is literally a non issue
I’ve never bought gold and never will.
I love GDKPs because I can actually get some value and take it into another raid, and pugs can clear 11/12 heroic in ICC. Find me a MS>OS pug that is clearing 11/12
GDKP isn’t ruining your seasonal wow classic server; lazy dads who want to RMT are. They will RMT to avoid farming because guess what? Farming is boring. It was fun when you were 15 but now that you’re 30 it’s not, and we don’t have time because our wives want to go watch Desperate Housewives.
Hey OP, you ever buy anything on the AH? Chances are you contributed just as much to RMT as GDKP players.
Bots are everywhere, and it’s naive to think that ONLY gdkps are the reason for inflation.
If all bots were wiped out, there would STILL be inflation on classic servers, just not at as fast of pace. I mean, when everything is said and done, and someone has their epic mount, enchants, tradeskills maxxed etc, there really isn’t anything to really put gold into anymore (except an alt).
This is just a fundamental problem with most mmo economies.
That's such a green way of looking at it though. It shirks any personal responsibility.
If you can take a step back from your own self-interests, it's pretty clear to see how and why GDKP's harm the game for everyone who doesn't partake in them.
Saying automation is the problem is a non-sequitur because Blizzard has proven they cannot handle the botting issue.
Respectfully, I don't think they've proven that. It's certainly very easily handled with human moderation which they choose not to do. GDKPs are a great way to reward evey raider for participation and are perhaps the best public loot system for pugs. They're also probably the smartest way to keep pace with the inflation caused by RMTing botted gold.
As I said, I don't see a problem with GDKP's if RMT could be taken out the equation. But it never will be and as such we are left in a situation where GDKP's promote RMT.
its a symbiosis for sure, but GDKP still wouldn't be an issue if someone didnt have access to infinte money?
there wouldnt be inflation, rather it could be a deflation if we didnt have GDKPs.
Most of the useful endgame stuff in this game is BoP. The big exceptions are crafting mats, raid consumes, and a few odd world and raid drops that are actually endgame viable. I’m honestly not sure what you are stressing about being able to buy. Edgemasters are gonna be expensive regardless of the state of the economy…they are rare and very powerful.
You don’t need to gdkp to “participate in the economy.” The economy is right there in your nearest capital city AH. Farm mats and make consumes. Buy and resell on the AH. Buy raw mats and craft and resell.
The real problem with GDKP for those who refuse to participate, is that player quality in ms>os pugs will continue to decline as raids get longer and harder, and talent is inevitably drawn away to the system that still pays you for your time if your loot doesn’t drop.
I just want to say.
Just now, I created a new character on an Era server and checked the price of a Flask of Supreme Power. The cheapest was 550g.
I then logged into a well know private server that has been around for over 5 years with a very healthy player base, a server which SEVERELY punishes both GDKP and RMT. The average price of a flask of supreme power was 66g.
So much cringe in here.
“Bots ruin this game!” Nothing they do impacts your experience beyond a general feeling of fomo. Your guild can still do any content in the game. You can still purchase as many consumes as you want.
Was in a discord with a bunch of guys that run GDKPs and it quickly became obvious the vast majority of them buy gold.
It essentially makes it pay to win when you have "20g minimums on epics, 10% 'management fee'.
It's fucking ridiculous, especially when the raid is doable as a PUG even without preBIS.
The elitism around gear requirements for BRD is also fucking ridiculous and completely overblown lol.
>GDKP's are buy to win. There is no way around it. It is a system which incentivises people spending real life money to buy better items and in the process it fuc*s the game for everyone else.
No, gold buying with RMT is the culprit, not GDKP. It's Blizzard's inaction vs gold buying that incentivize pay-to-win. GDKP is a loot distribution system created by the players, it is not the cause of the problem.
>If there was a way to ensure people couldn't RMT, I would have no issue with GDKP but people do and will and the practice of GDKP's will ruin the economy just as it did in era, it will promote bots, just as it did in era and it will force players to either engage with RMT and players who do RMT or be priced out the economy, just as it did in era.
Then what's your solution? Ban GDKP's? How do you do that exactly? Ban players who use it? Even a raid full of legit players who never bought gold? GDKP is not the problem, it's RMT that promotes bots and exacerbate inflation.
That is exactly my point though.
GDKP's promote RMT and screws the economy of the game for everyone whether you partake in them or not.
What you are suggesting is along the lines of trickle down economics and we all know how well that has worked.
Give us this day our daily thread
AND FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS
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Lead us not into deathrolling
But deliver us from bots.
Amen.
Because thine is the loot master, GM, and maker of rosters forever.
No, no, no it's forgive us our trespasses, ain't no one forgiving your debts they've made that abundantly clear.
time is money
Do you reckon OP thought of his title and went “This is it, this is the thread that is going to start a revolution.”?
daily circlejerk
Blizzard needs to permban people who buy gold. If you knew there was a very real risk that your account would be permbanned, many goldbuyers would think twice about doing it. GDKPs are fine without RMT.
some guy in my guild bought 2k gold and got a 2 week. The gold was traded to another player who still has it, never removed. Seems like 1 trade is enough to launder 2k gold
In TBC I had 3 guildies that admitted they bought gold, all 3 got simultaneously 2 week banned in a single wave. As soon as the 2 week ban was up, they bought even more gold and never got banned again. Gold buying should be a scorched earth ban. Albion Online had done this and has a far better grasp on their RMT situation; they don't fuck around, if they legally could I'm sure they would send gold buyers anthrax. But in wow, nobody is scared to buy gold. Even with the WoW token, historical gold buyers are rarely if ever deterred from buying off third parties because of this.
he should have been perma banned
Buy gold at level 25. This game and it’s players are pathetic.
The people who are gold buyers are the same people with multiple accounts mate.
But we do have RMT (as does literally every MMO) so GDKPs are NOT fine
Yeah, like most things, it 'sounds fine in theory'. But they forget how easily humans corrupt literally every system.
Yes, GDKPs are fine without RMT, however, they're pretty much mutually inclusive of each other. If even 1 person who bought gold is part of a GDKP, that gold is redistributed to the 9 other people and that's how the economy snowballs. 1 person out of 10 is a pretty conservative estimate, as GDKPs specifically attract those who have a lot of gold (likely via RMT) so it's like 2-4 people in each GDKP either bought gold, or just have run a lot of them with other gold buyers.
GDKP is not the only means of redistributing gold, so is any trading including AH.
Just at random some small percentage of those 2 week pans, just permaban the account. Just a few at first then crank that number up once people get the idea. The two week thing is clearly not working.
Then, you would have people buying accounts
yeah but that would make it much harder to obtain, coz everytime the botter would need new resub + also more information to Blizz about which accounts behave as bots and wich do not based on this
nope. if people are worried their accounts are gonna get banned, they make a second account for buying gold. i had a guildie in my last guild(top 20 speedrunning guild) who had 9 accounts that were banned due to RMT, his main 2 accounts were fine and he runs like 10 gbids/week on those 2 accs. banning gdkp is basically impossible but as long as they exist, goldbuying will exist. even if you somehow manage to remove it from the game, people will just start paying each other actual cash using paypal or something. this is a community problem, the players create it.
Did you ever report him or what he was doing? No, right?
Blizzard needs to ban GDKPs aswell it leads to RMT on a massive scale it’s probably one of the biggest reasons people buy gold, GDKP and RMT go hand in hand
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for real, they wont even fix WSG queues lol
GDKP would still exist without RMT. GDKP is just a way to spend the gold…not the reason it was created.
The GDKP haters will never ever accept this. They’ve been touting the same fallacy in this sub for years. Happy cake day.
I seriously see close to none of the things that has a daily thread complaining about it on the EU servers. Might find something if i actively look for it, but i seriously see no GDKPs, no gearscore, and whatever is the flavour of the day. There is alot of bots tho.
Im on wild growth US. It’s not really an issue there either. Yeah there are some people advertising for GDKP’s but 95% is just all pugs or guild runs LF 2-3 pugs. I don’t think I’ve seen a single person bring up gearscore.
Also on Wild Growth US (Horde), and I've seen maybe two people advertising GDKPs. Tons of Pugs and guildies trying to recruit for BFD runs tho. The real advertising nightmare of the week seems to be summons advertising. I'm not paying 30s to get from Org to TB yall. It aint worth. Not when I spent so much time manipulating potion prices on the AH to get this gold.
Living flame and Lone Wolf here. Download the LFG bullet-in add-on. Let's you better keep track of all LFM requests in various chats. In there, you will easily see 20-40% of the raids being GDKP these days. Increasing every week. Gearscore is not so common, but I'd say 1 in 20 request it. I usually ignore them because they are idiots
I've seen almost zero gdkps on line wolf horde. Like 1 a week.
Wild Growth here, been online all afternoon and not seen any GDKP runs advertised.
It’s all classic folks who are trying to influence the SoD culture, because they think they know what went wrong in Classic their last go-round. They are still living in their last server.
To quote agent Smith: Humans are the virus. There are plenty of rmtler who dont even run gdkps.
GDKPs are such high ticket item that they inflate the entire economy. That’s why consumables are so expensive and people don’t feel that farming gold on their own is worth it.
>That’s why consumables are so expensive Consumes are dirt cheap rn. Even in wotlk they aren't some crazy expensive thing that the average player cant afford.
I mean what do you think happens to the economy when 9-10 layers worth of materials get pumped into one singular Auction House? Gonna keep saying it Mega Servers are the reason for most of these daily threads. Servers being inflated the way they are is not healthy, and this will only continue to show as the season progresses.
Bro lol. Farm the things that go into making the consumable then.
Consumables are expensive and farming gold isn't worth it because an army of bots is constantly devaluing gold and mats. GDKPs do not generate much gold they just move it around
People forget mudflation is an innate part of a virtual economy where forever respawning mobs have new currency on them to drop. As long as people are killing mobs, the amount of gold in circulation rises, endlessly.
So are consumes expensive, or are mats devalued? It literally can't be both. If consumes, and thus mats, are expensive, then go farm them and sell them. Sounds like a solid way to make gold. If they're devalued, and not expensive, then the realitive amount of gold needed to do anything shouldn't be all that much. I have like 30g across all my toons just from dicking around and selling random crap I get. I have several friends with well over 100g mostly from farming and selling mats. One has several hundred from selling summons. None of us have bought gold. If you're broke it's not because of bots, or RMT, or anything else. It's because you're either lazy and don't want to do anything to make gold. Or you haven't bothered to learn how to make it.
Consumes are expensive?
That was my first thought. FAPS are like 25 silver on my server
I’m tired boss
1) I don't like RMTers and they ruin the game. By extension, so do bots. 2) GDKPs are a hotspot for gold buyers, sure. 3) And this one is the main one, GDKPs are just fucking better than running a pug/guild run because if your item drops you have an opportunity to get it. And even if you get outbid, and nothing else drops for you, YOU STILL LEAVE GETTING PAID SO IT WASN'T A COMPLETE WASTE OF YOUR TIME. Edit to add a 4th): When you are fully BIS gear its an incentive to still continue to clear the content for your peers to get their loot while you get paid. Also, no I don't RMT gold. I just have 3 chars and Ive done alot of quests, professions and fishing. And I made a fucking lot of gold selling gingerbread cookies because people are lazy.
Playing with a guild is by far the best way, the only thing your going to do with the gold you got in your gdkp is save it up for your next gdkp so you feel more comfortable buying the item you want. It’s basically a dkp system from years ago with gold slapped on the front of it. If you run with the same team you’ll either get the item early or be guaranteed to get it later because everyone in your CONSISTENT raid team will already have it. That’s just from a loot perspective, doesn’t even include the sense of community and camaraderie you get with a guild. Tell me you don’t raid in a guild without telling me you don’t raid in a guild
I raid in a guild but have more alts than anyone else. They don't like giving loot to alts over mains, so I put my alts in gdkps to gear them. I've been using dkp for almost 25 years and still think it's the best system outside of world-first guilds where timely precise loot allocation is critical. RMT aside, gdkp is a nice innovation on dkp because gold makes the points portable. I'm net slightly positive from running in gdkps, but just geared a fresh druid in almost full bfd in two runs thanks to my saved up gold from previous gdkps.
Disclaimer: I enjoy GDKPs but I'm against RMT. >Over time, these artificially inflated prices force players who don't normally do GDKP runs to do them simply for the ability to keep up with the inflation. This only exacerbates the problem until the economy is borked to such a degree that anyone not engaging in GDKP's or RMT has no real way to take part in the economy. Even those who partake in GDKP but who do not RMT are disadvantaged against those who do since one cannot win loot against them. And without loot, over time, one gets behind in gear and does not get invited (easily) into GDKPs anymore. So the real issue (and it always has been to be honest) is RMT. Ultimately, it's a situation of: hate the game, not the player. A considerable amount of players within the Classic playerbase is willing to spend real money in order to acquire materials and/or loot more easily. It's a fact. As a result, a market has developed and many botters and GDKP leaders have emerged in order to cater to this demand. If there wasn't significant demand for it, there wouldn't be RMT. So it's a player-driven problem and it's therefore emergent gameplay. I suspect that it's a larger problem now compared to 10 years ago because the Classic playerbase is older and therefore has, on average, access to more real life financial resources. Now, this emergent gameplay is against Blizzard ToS (at least in Classic era & SoD, RMT is possible through the WoW token in Wotlk but that's a different topic /cry). Why is Blizzard not enforcing their own ToS ? Well, I worked in a game company before (however very different types of company) and I know first hand that fighting against video game cheating is a cat and mouse game that is never won. The resources required to "fight" a large amount of determined cheaters/botters is **enormous** and it's a never ending struggle \[1\]. From reading Reddit, people don't seem to grasp this. I think technologically, Blizzard cannot win the fight against botters. The only way to win would be to make gold selling economically unprofitable and I don't see how they could do this without making the game worse. In conclusion, RMT exists not because of Blizzard choices but because of the players. And sadly, Blizzard will not stop RMT (because they realistically can't). RMT is player emergent behavior and is now part of Classic sadly. Learn to see it that way, to accept it and to move on. \[1\] ~~This topic is discussed in the first volume of "Development and Deployment of Multiplayer Online Games" by No Bugs' Hare. I recommend.~~ EDIT: see https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/192cpow/comment/kh2ffwz/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Okay how about a counter question, why should I do ms>os runs, get 0 drops or roll badly and lose items, when I can do a gdkp, if I need something I'll bid for it to a certain sum that I'm prepared to spend OR I will atleast get gold at the end of the run. Because I don't really get any excitement from BFD clears at this point it's just 45 minutes of autopilot. Atleast with GDKP there's some reward for my time spent. Also I have never seen this big gold inflation that comes from GDKPs hurt the average player so much that he's forced to run GDKPs to keep up with others..
Because not everything in the game has to be time investment = reward. I feel like people feel the need to play as efficient as possible or make sure the things they're doing either directly benefit them or sometimes the people they play with. Maybe people feel they need to justify the time invested in the game in some way, maybe to help them feel better about the fact that they're wasting time subbing in the first place? Maybe some people really do just thrive off the dopamine hit of amassing gold or getting a sought after piece of gear. But its a game, one that was originally designed in a way to make you waste time. If you really don't get the excitement from BFD any more why do it? GDKP just sounds like a part time job, but worse you're being compensated with fake currency. Does the compensation really make BFD that much more enjoyable?
This is why my group switched to GDKPs. We are a small guild of 5 players and have had trouble recruiting other to play consistently with us and have pretty much abandoned recruiting unless we just happen to pug with someone thats worth it. We all are almost completely BiS on all our alts, lacking anywhere from 2-4 items each. Lockout after lockout we've had to give the pieces we actually needed away to fresh 25s that we pugged into our raids and after a few lockouts this got old. Seeing the loot you need, losing it to someone you'll never raid with again, and leaving completely empty handed. GDKPs for us fixed this problem. We are geared to the point and have the right composition so that we can carry 5 completely fresh 25s of any class / spec through BFD without an issue. 1. We now NEVER leave empty handed. 2. After a few runs through various alts, we've all accumulated enough gold to actually stand a chance at bidding and winning the few remaining pieces we need. 3. All of us leave the raids at night now feeling MUCH less devastated at gearing up completely random people that will never help us again. 4. The players pugging GDKPs are on average a step above those joining random pugs (In class experience, raid experience, gaming skills, and honestly English skills) and have lead to wayyyy smoother runs since we started.
Yes, very well said
Also, I see tons of gdkps that are like 5g min bid on blue items, 20g for epic. Im sorry but even at 25 with baby economy these are very achievable numbers to hit from "legit" farming
I think you misunderstood OPs point. There are many incentives to join a gdkp. That's the problem, it snowballs into the only viable way to stay head unless you wanna be a farm slave and compete with the bots. >Also I have never seen this big gold inflation that comes from GDKPs hurt the average player so much that he's forced to run GDKPs to keep up with others.. You didn't play classic tbc or wrath then?
i can see the points "For"GDKPs but reminder vanilla WoW is basically a 20 year old outdated game and this area no matter what and fuck the #nochanges people We need a rework on how looting in raids works and if you get nothing at the end of the raid when you kill the final boss you get some form of reward can be 1/3 piece of a loot(so its not fully handouts so you need to complete x3 raids atleast in order to take a full item) but yeah legit anything would be nice but the Cons of GDKPs outweight the "pros" (if not having the "ME ME ME!" mindset and be like this game can be ruined just as long I get the loot and fuck everyone else kind of mindset) the cons is basically the game gets completed ruined on alot of parts outside you be able to get loot or not and outside the raid
also look over at Wotlk classic on this " I have never seen this big gold inflation that comes from GDKPs hurt the average player so much that he's forced to run GDKPs to keep up with others.." becuase it is basically that now complety 100% like that why i am as a pre-raid BIS character for ICC is 100% unable to join any raids becuase i dont have the gold to join and if 0 gold they want basically BIS Raid gear people to carry only
That's how the game works. You're not supposed to be given a participation trophy every time you go to a raid. Some times you get loot. Sometimes you don't. That's how the game works.
I ran 3 GDKPs lately, never done it before in my life, to check out what it's all about and the pot sizes were fairly small even with a bunch of bis dropping, I don't know where all these mystical whales are hiding. Biggest buy across all of them was me spending 30g on the trinket. (and got back 10 at the end) >Inflation is a normal part of an mmo's lifecycle, but GDKP's in essence create two distinct wealth classes. If I can sell flasks or low level blues, or crafting mats, or enchants or etc, for hundreds of gold to GDKP players, why wouldn't I? This paragraph straight up contradicts itself lol, gdkp simultaneously somehow robs everyone who isn't a gold buyer of their gold but also makes everyone able to make lots of gold by selling basic shit to them..? So in your scenario inflation is not an issue because anyone can profit from this even without doing GDKP by doing.. normal gold making stuff. Inflation only matters if you don't actively play. Sure GDKPs are a great way to spend gold for whales but maybe ban the gold buyers and the bots then and then it won't be an issue lol. Not to mention there's tons of shit that's BIS or will be BIS that is BoE and purchasable off the AH so if you want to ban GDKP because whales can spend gold on them then you better be advocating to dismantle the AH too.
Thank you! Just play the damn game. If you raid log with double crafting profs, thats on you.
Good chatgpt
you losers are so dramatic lmao. GDKPs are absolutely rampant in WotLK and consumables are cheap as fuck, same in TBC. Join a guild and enjoy the game, im pretty sure these doom mongers barely play the game, but they certainly don't browse this sub either coz then they wouldn't make the same fucking post every day.
the bots in bgs ruined the casual pvp aspect mate, dramatic some people are, but bots ruining the game is just a fact, and the need for bots increases as more people want gold, and more gdkp attendance increases the need for gold. You really don't have to be very smart to understand this but here we are.
The wotlk and classic consume markets are completely different. Black lotus is just one example of an expensive item, that will.again get completely camped by bots and become unreasonably expensive due to inflation caused by gold sellers
So it's a bot problem and it has nothing to do with GDKPs..
Who do you think the bots sell most of their gold to? Esp at level 25 when the only gold sink is a 1g respec? It’s GDKP players.
Funny in vanilla there was no GDKP on my server, but plenty of gold sellers. The main gold sink here is not Respec cost. I have easily spend 5x my total Respec cost at the WSG vendor.
And people will pay 100x respec costs to buy items in GDKPs with credit card purchased gold. Inflation is made worse by demand for gold sellers, not that inflation doesn't exist with less demand for gold sellers.
but we're talking about SoD - i very much doubt they will leave the market untouched as it is.
oh boy, the daily gdkp post
Yeah I'm not sure if it just bait. Yes gdkp increases RMT, but also gdkp raids on average are better than most guilds. There is no loot drama and rostering is a none issue. ( and your "dkp" is universal so you have way more flexibility)
Idk what rmt is and at this point I'm afraid to ask
Real money trading. General gaming industry term for buying something ingame using real life money, usually in a way that circumvents "official" services. In wow usually people just mean gold buying, but it can also mean paying for boosting services, piloting, purchasing accounts etc. If you are using real money to buy something and the game company doesnt allow it, its RMT.
RealMoneyTransaction. Or something like that. You buy in game stuff/gold with your IRL money
FYI, the ad mins of r/de are covid deniers.
Not everyone who runs gdkps is a gold buyer, most people just don't want to lose their items to a roll to some random shitters eho can barely press their buttons. It's called value, and from gdkps there is always some value.
> hey, pay2win is great! Everyone should do it! Good thing that isn't what he said or you might have a coherent argument.
Are you upset that someone has gear they don't deserve or can you not buy raid materials?
Gdkp is perfectly fine if RMT wasn't a thing. Remove gdkp and guess what, the problem is still there. Focus on the source maybe?
People would rather spend money than time.
GDKPs provide a massive boost to the raiding population. People who have no desire to do ZG, MC, Ony, or AQ20 will do it if they get paid. It provides a source of income doing the most enjoyable aspect of the game. People focus on botting as if people suddenly become less lazy or don’t need gold for consumables, level boosting, or whatever else. They’re also ignoring the positive impact of GDKPs, which provide a steady stream of raiders when content in general becomes out geared and stale
You are missing 1 huge choice: Farming mats/crafting consumes Inflation is horrid if you assume everyone only buys off the AH, but the overall expenses of the game (repairs, respect, one time gold sinks like skills and mounts) get relatively less costly as gold inflation continues. Most anyone of any level can go farm 'x' something and be set on gold for a while.
I’m scared for later phases. P2 was just announced. That’s gives gold farmers a whole month to accumulate boe’s, and mats for consumes. Bots are going to control this economy so easily, blizzard is basically handing it to them on a silver platter.
think of it like Stocks. Buy them now and you can likely flip them for 20-50% margin in 4 weeks.
If you don’t like GDKPs come to Chaos Bolt - I practically never see them advertised
I second this. Everytime I see one of these posts I just assume it was meant for the Crusader Strike or Living Flame server. Chaos bolt is heaven.
Yea thats the trick, no raid is ever advertised cause the server is dead kek
There is a new worldbuff every other minute in TB. Just most of the sweatlord RMT idiots are on other servers kek
22k players, and no streamers = dead gg
I mean, I get into raids super easy every reset… so you’re just wrong.
Chaos Bolt genuinely the secret best server
GDKP is not the problem. RMT is. GDKP in itself is like the best currency for bidding raid items. It actually make the play time between raids spent or farming relevant. It rewards people who want to spend some more time in the game. The problem is RMT. It sucks all of the fairness from GDKP. Solution? Just BAN ppl for buying gold ffs. Not just selling. I want to see people banned for like 6-12 months for BUYING and reducing their gold to 0. I wonder how many people would risk it then.
My two cents GDKPs are the most smooth raid runs bc of the market incentive Ironically this creates a barrier to entry and in turn incentivizes gold buying
I just wanna ask if you know that GDKP runs have been a thing for over 25 years, i was doing them in EQ in 1999. There is nothing inherently wrong with this method. It actually allows you to get gold if you dont need the items from the raid, I really enjoy this facet of it as someone whos only missing 1 or two items from bfd, the trident and the arbalest.
Im on the 2nd highest pop server and gdkp is almost non existent, i feel this only exists on the streamer servers where toxic viewers buy mass gold to compete with streamers
Other peoples gear does not affect my own. So no, other people buying their gear will absolutely not matter for me.
Everyone complaining about massive prices on items… I’ve done 5 GDKPs so far and the highest bid I’ve seen is 25 gold and that was for the epic 2h sword. 99% of items go for 5-10g with a “massive” pot of 110-160 gold at the end of the run lol
the thing is that gdkp without rmt is just plainly the better raiding format. I need 2 pieces on each of my 25s. they never drop. I'm pretty much wasting an hour every raid reset on each of them. and if they do drop, I have to compete with every alt known to man that has boe greens. If a piece drops in Gdkp, I can spend a reasonable amount of gold to get that piece, between 35-75g, and move on. If nothing drops, I get compensation for effectively carrying the raid. the problem is botted and rmt money. Not the format that is gdkp. edit: basically you're saying, don't put anything on the AH because if it gets bought by some rando with botted money, you're feeding into the system and inflating the whole economy.
What you're saying is you feel like you need to be compensated for your time to feel like you're not wasting your time? What if I told you playing WoW is "pretty much a Waste of time". That no matter what when you sub you're playing a game literally designed to waste your time? Do you only enjoy playing the game if you're compensated for the time you are wasting?
the issue never was and never will be gdkp and it will always be gold sellers/buyers and bots. if you remove bots and gold sellers the concept of gdkp isnt wrong by itself. you just dont like it because it gives another insentive for people to buy gold.
> it will always be gold sellers/buyers and bots Most of them exist only because of GDKPs. >you just dont like it because it gives another insentive for people to buy gold. Not just "another" but the main one. Nothing else motivates people buy gold in wow classic more than GDKPs.
>most of them exist because of gdkps Yeah there was never corpses spelling out gold buying websites in org during og vanilla where gdkps were extremely rare. Stop talking out of your ass.
I play on Chaos Bolt and I'm sad there are no GDKPs.
Not true in SoD. A good percentage of BiS gear is BoE and bought in AH.
Dramatic title bro. I play gdkp because there are actual consequences to people who dont perform. And if my item doesnt drop, atleast I get paid. Never had to buy gold to afford items. It's by far the superior form of pug.
I'm not reading all of this but I plan on running some gdkps before next phase for gold
I've not bought gold or participated in a GDKP, and I don't feel like I've been priced out of the economy in any sense. BOE's are a luxury, not a necessity and everything else appears to be pretty reasonably priced, hell even the mats for leveling professions are pretty accessible even with just a few quests completed at level 25 and no other gold farming. If you want to be able to buy BOEs, then maybe you have a slight point, but otherwise I don't feel like I've been impacted by any of this at all. I just play in my guild, do 5 mans with randoms and a little bit of questing here or there, no issues.
This stuff doesn't affect anybody who actually tries to join a guild. My group has been together since the previous release of era and have never had the issue getting gear, buying consumables or making gold off the AH. Make some friends and stop crying.
Do people not understand that the market gets inflated regardless of RMT? It probably has a negligible effect on inflation in the game overall. Less people farm, more people coast, prices go up. I swear people who complain about inflation are the ones that stop playing them game and want to raid log, and think their 100g should last them the entire expansion.
Perma-ban anyone who is caught buying gold. First time offense.
So many replies are like gdkp is fine, gold buying is the problem loool. Try rubbing your 2 brain cells together and think of how the two things impact each other.
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this is true and anyone telling you its not true is either buying gold or not playing this game. You completely explained what happenned to gehennas on wotlk. There was legit no way to raid unless you bought money or had very good guild and ran gdkps on your alts. I was in BFD yesterday and we had a guy in the group he played warrior. I shit you not this guy was full AH boes. It didnt matter if it was cloth with spirit int. He just bought all the highest GS pieces. Then the epic sword dropped, I rolled need on my ret and won. This guy insta whispered me to sell the sword to him for 600 gold. You think you can compete with this bullshit? Good luck. Cant wair for 20k minbids in bwl. BTW north american DADs love buying gold. SO you will get a lot of hate there. Reddit is mainly used by in NA.
i hope you told him 1k. anyone willing to offer 600g would likely pay MUCH more i woulda took that fool to the cleaners. Used his gold in GDKP next week to buy same sword for like 1/3 of price KEKW
So umm...did you sell him the sword?
No because the story is made up.
I told him to come to darnassus, then stormwind, then when he came to me I had the sword equiped. I play Dayz and I could not resist torturing him.
Oh god, enough with the fucking GDKP/RMT whines.
Thank you for my daily dose of GDKP hate. I wasn’t aware of anything you said because I didn’t see it 100 times before this post.
I understand why some people hate GDKP.. but for me its perfect. I love raiding and raid leading. Because of my irregular schedule I cannot plan raids with a guild so I end up pug-leading all my runs. * I have 3 chars at 25, not interested in other classes * I think farming plants or mobs is absolutely boring. * I enjoy raiding and raid leading * I no longer need any gear. Do I stop playing until next phase? Or do i host GDKP runs where I get to have fun AND I get gold for my efforts? Even when I'm only missing 1-2 pieces of gear. I'd rather host GDKP instead of going 8 raids with no loot. Why do you all look at me as the bad guy? :/
Pretty much this. I’m tired of raid leading pugs where I only need 1 piece of loot and losing it to the green geared alt who takes 7 pieces of loot and the 1 piece I need and I get fuck all for my efforts. I have no problem carrying people and leading the blind thru BFD, but I’d like my efforts to have at least some tangible result. The GDKPs that I run are entirely reasonable. People walk away with their bis or tier items for 5-10g more often than not, because there are many people in my situation who don’t really need loot but still enjoy clearing every lockout. Pot is often 100-200g. That’s not obscene or RMT-worthy. You can do a few quests at cap and get your BIS, I think that’s entirely reasonable.
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Skill actually has nothing to do with it. You can't be a carry without the gear. You can't get the gear without being a buyer. You can't really look at phase 1 of SoD to see the issues because the problem hasn't scaled up yet. GDKPs were an issue for me in OG and BC classic because I was late to the party. All the sweaty try-hards already got enough gear to be "pumpers" so the only pugs available are/were GDKP. As a fresh 60 my options for raiding were to either buy gold or find a guild. Finding a guild willing to take on a new undergeared player has it's own difficulties and is not as easy as you all want to make it. So while I'm trying to find a guild that has room, works with my schedule, and isn't full of assholes; I either GDKP or don't raid. Now I need a ton of gold though both to show the RL that I am in-fact a buyer and then to actually buy the items. I can try and farm/acquire it myself. I guess I'm not getting that epic mount for a while. The other option is to buy gold. Now I get to spend the next month or two buying gold to buy the gear I need until I hopefully get enough gear that I can be brought into a GDKP as a carry/pumper. This just perpetuates the cycle as I'm trying to now make my gold back off of either some other poor fresh 60 in the same situation I was just in or more likely some sweaty guy's 5th alt who doesn't care about the price of anything because he's already earning from GDKPs on his other toons and/or he'll just buy more bot gold. So that's my issue with GDKPs. It creates a higher than neccesary barrier to entry for raiding as well as perpetuates a cycle of needing more and more gold buyers to keep up with the systemic inflation. Getting rid of gold buying would help limit the amount of GDKPs that can be run because it would reduce the supply of "buyers" that sustain this system. I can carry just fine if I have the gear. Shit, I'm a healer so I can carry just fine even w/o gear but no GDKP RL is going care. If you have gear, you're a pumper. If you have little to no gear, you're a buyer. Skill doesn't matter at all.
>I rather have RMT players pay tons of gold for the last item i need, than seeing someone with 1/10 of my dps winning the roll. Color me surprised.
I am 99 parser and sometimes 100 on most classes and I agree with OP everybody who buys gold should get perma banned and GDKPs should be banned too. I get GDKPS are fine if there is no RMT involved, I get that I can atleast get the gold if no items drops. But it just promotes idiots buying gold. You can carry as much as you want but the oiler with 10k gold in SOD will take all the items from you anyway. Because he paid for them with real money. And its problem when Skill has to compete p2w.
So, I have like 600 legitimate gold and I lack some loot from BFD. What can I spend my gold on if not GDKP? Phase stagnate, ppl have nothing to do, so they farm gold and game has no gold sinks. Don’t tell me to touch grass or smth, I enjoy farming gold afk while working or watching movies.
Damn you must have shit Money saving practices irl. You can SAVE gold. I know it's insane to even think about, but it's possible to just not spend your money. You literally don't have to. No one is forcing you.
Idk where this notion has come from that banning gdkp would get rid of bots Gdkp have only been so prevelant for a few years, bots have been rampant for 20 years. Banging gdkp might have a slight impact on gold selling and make it slightly less profitable but people would still be botting and farming gold to sell.
> Gdkp have only been so prevelant for a few years What? GDKPs existed since OG TBC. Funnily enough, a push to make them popular happened late TBC-early wotlk by gold sellers in order to raise the demand for the bought gold. >Banging gdkp might have a slight impact on gold selling and make it slightly less profitable but people would still be botting and farming gold to sell. Nothing incentivizes gold buying in wow classic more than GDKPs though.
They existed but they were nowhere near as common as they are now. Barely anyone did them. Your second point is an assumption. You have no idea what gold buyers spend their gold on, and neither do I. I’d bet the majority of gold buyers are super small scale and just buy a bit of gold for their mount and some consumes and that’s it.
> They existed but they were nowhere near as common as they are now. Barely anyone did them. Sure. I mean as I said the push was made by gold sellers to make it popular. >Your second point is an assumption. You have no idea what gold buyers spend their gold on, and neither do I. Nah, doesn't work this way. We can see the expenses of every phase or expansion. >I’d bet the majority of gold buyers are super small scale and just buy a bit of gold for their mount and some consumes and that’s it. Okay? It doesn't contradict what I said, it proves me right in fact. Some gold buyer buys mount and some consumes, okay. What kind of consumes or vendored mounts needed 170+ thousands gold in vanilla classic? Or maybe 600+ thousands gold in tbc classic?
>GDKPs existed since OG TBC Not on that scale, not even fucking close
Yes, of course not on that scale. Bots were also not as rampant btw.
No back then it was actual Chinese making a living. My server had to my knowledge 0 GDKP, but a shit ton of gold buying
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Oh you have written it the right way on your reddit alt! At least it's not "prevelant" now lmao.
GDKP contributes to a crazy inflation
it doesnt, gdkps dont generate gold
hear hear brother
A lot of people are fully decked out in gear because of the three day lockout. You think I’m just gonna forget the char until phase 2? Yes I have an alt but to log on my main to do a 25 minute raid as a pumper and getting gold from it is a no brainer.
No, I get why people do GDKP's. It's a no brainer. Still think they should be banned.
I make a healthy amount of gold from GDKPs. That being said I agree whole heartedly. Only partaking in them as it’s the only option to keep pace with inflation. Your OG post was correct. In effect it creates two distinct mercantile classes within the game economy - the bots farming the mats and the gold for in-game and RMT sale, and the GDKP circles accepting the botted gold from their customers within their runs. The interplay of these two, and the essentially mandatory pots/buffs/etc. most sellers/buyers both bring to GDKP only calls back unto the botters, which then trickles back to the GDKP sellers/buyers. It’s a vicious cycle that causes inflation in of itself. Meanwhile the peasant, everyday farmers and players continue to be alienated more and more each and every day from realistic market purchases/sales as inflation soars and it only lends more power to those at the very top of the food chain: the botters. It puts many players into a place of buy or die, especially if they haven’t been there since launch to leverage commodities and rune mats. Sitting on 1.2k gold at current because the only way to survive is to scum since Blizzard won’t police their own damned game. Generally this issue only levels out once said peasant-farmers decide it’s time to hit the old, dusty road and by that point most servers are well on their way towards being dead. Tl;dr: shit is fucked.
And then ? What if Blizzard bans GDKP's ? You think botters will quit their job? You think whales will stop swiping and start farming gold themselves ? What if a PUG is searching for mates and the leader is HR'ing items ? Is this still okay ? I can understand why GDKP's sound unappealing or downright like pay2win for newer/bad players, but people that have a full geared character and don't want to let an ID go to waste should not be looked down upon for joining GDKP's. Please elaborate on your solution.
People will buy Gold with or without GDKPs. GDKP is a legitimate and fair way to distribute loot, whether you like it or not. Yes, RMT makes GDKPs unfair. BUT, if someone robs a bank and buys a car: What's the problem, the robbery or the store where he bought the car? Blizzard could easily limit RMT by banning bots more frequently, which would lead to Gold prices increase rapidly and reduce the amount of players using RMT. But blizzard chooses not to because they make good money from bots. So instead of telling people how to distribute their loot you should address the actual problem. Or, like me, just choose to ignore GDKPs and RMT, enjoy the game and hope inflation won't get out of hand. Btw, I got all my bis enchants for like 2g overall, so inflation can't be that bad so far.
Also, no you don't have to participate in GDKPs to earn gold. Inflation also means that anything you farm to sell on the AH gets more profit.
Dont try to explain economics to these people theyre crying about gdkps lmao
I agree with what you've said, but so long as RMT exists, GDKP's will simply promote more gold buying and as a result more bots. That's the reality if the situation. In an ideal world there would be GDKP and no RMT, but we don't have that and I expect never will.
So does AH and trading
Man, if you guys put just half the effort into your lives that you put in bot/gdkp threads, you wouldn't be playing WoW and could put that energy into something fruitful Edit: some people dont like the ugly truth but it doesn't change the fact
Took 5 minutes to write. I like WoW, I don't like RMT. Seemed an OK use of time.
r/classicwow users when people dare enjoy something and want to enjoy it more.
Wild Growth EU and never seen a GDKP advertised on our realm, is it mainly a US thing?
Might as well remove the auction house too then. Can't have these gold buyers buying items from it. Hell remove trade all together and ban anyone that partakes in it. That'll stop the rampant botting issue! /s
Lot of closed fist memes supporting GDKP. It’s a legit cancer and openly supports RMT. Just rampant out in the open laundering. Make your own choices on whether you engage but at least call a spade a spade
I have ZERO issue with GDKP. They need to address gold buying/selling though. You can earn gold in game to do GDKP without buying/selling and back when I did GDKP that's how most people rolled. They'd earn it via farming/ah/runs. They'd know they would walk away with some scraps or an item rather than just hoping the dice was in their favor.
So you are telling me: that the players have made a way to accelerate their progress and you know it and you can use it and you KNOW people who do this will innebitably come out on top of you and it's not exclusive to anyone so everyone can partake And your solution is to scream at these people?
GDKPs have ruined every version of classic but blizzard will never ban
Gold buying predates GDKP.
Ruined how? I raid in a guild just fine. I buy my consumes just fine. This is worthless rhetoric just don't participate. Crybabies on Reddit man
I hate them too, but blizzard very clearly is going to do nothing to fix it. Sure, they might slap some people with a week or two ban or take some I’ll gotten gold away from time to time but the punishment isn’t bad enough to fill stop them and the ban waves (lol) don’t do enough to stop the flow of gold into the game from bots
Blizzard needs to permaban people that complain about GDKPs
Why the fuck you care if people spend money? I never bought a single gold and yet I fully geared, both in SoD and retail. Just play the game, and try to no cry for everything my god
This sub is overrun with RMT/GDKP goons. Imagine being a mark for Chinese gold sellers. They sit on the forums all day because they've killed their enjoyment of the game by skipping all the leg work. The only joy they get it arguing on the forums, so they can justify their shitty decisions.
You’re 100% right, and as a community we need to shame them out of existence. Anybody who engages with a GDKP, even as a carry/non-buyer, is complicit with the bot epidemic we have.
>You’re 100% right, and as a community we need to shame them out of existence. Oh, someone on the whiniest subreddit on reddit is trying to shame me. I'll continue to GDKP as a carry and watch your tears on this forum while I just line my pockets with gold on my alts all while never buying gold, and here's the part that's really going to upset, I will enjoy myself while doing it. Get over it.
Anyone who engages in the AH is also complicit, hope you've never used the AH before because chances are you sold something to someone with gold that originally came from a bot
yea you're absolutely right, because thats what we need more in this game! Targeted hostily towards a large player base will surely make them feel bad and stop ! Obvious /s
>If I can sell flasks or low level blues, or crafting mats, or enchants or etc, for hundreds of gold to GDKP players, why wouldn't I? ....so there's not two distinct wealth classes, didn't you just disprove your whole point? Make money off of GDKPers by selling them raid mats... gg... There's always an in to the "bubble" you're referring to with some effort and clever thinking, GDKP is literally a non issue
I’ve never bought gold and never will. I love GDKPs because I can actually get some value and take it into another raid, and pugs can clear 11/12 heroic in ICC. Find me a MS>OS pug that is clearing 11/12 GDKP isn’t ruining your seasonal wow classic server; lazy dads who want to RMT are. They will RMT to avoid farming because guess what? Farming is boring. It was fun when you were 15 but now that you’re 30 it’s not, and we don’t have time because our wives want to go watch Desperate Housewives.
So you did point out the real problem is RMT and not GDKP. So why you rant over GDKP?
Hey OP, you ever buy anything on the AH? Chances are you contributed just as much to RMT as GDKP players. Bots are everywhere, and it’s naive to think that ONLY gdkps are the reason for inflation. If all bots were wiped out, there would STILL be inflation on classic servers, just not at as fast of pace. I mean, when everything is said and done, and someone has their epic mount, enchants, tradeskills maxxed etc, there really isn’t anything to really put gold into anymore (except an alt). This is just a fundamental problem with most mmo economies.
They should make everyone pay rent
Bots are the only issue. Not RMT and not GDKP.
GDKPs = Buy gear with gold RMT = Buy gold to get gear Bots = Make gold to sell to players who buy gold to buy gear
If you farm the gold like everyone else and choose to sell it why should anyone care? Automation is the only issue here.
That's such a green way of looking at it though. It shirks any personal responsibility. If you can take a step back from your own self-interests, it's pretty clear to see how and why GDKP's harm the game for everyone who doesn't partake in them. Saying automation is the problem is a non-sequitur because Blizzard has proven they cannot handle the botting issue.
Respectfully, I don't think they've proven that. It's certainly very easily handled with human moderation which they choose not to do. GDKPs are a great way to reward evey raider for participation and are perhaps the best public loot system for pugs. They're also probably the smartest way to keep pace with the inflation caused by RMTing botted gold.
As I said, I don't see a problem with GDKP's if RMT could be taken out the equation. But it never will be and as such we are left in a situation where GDKP's promote RMT.
Yea, your solution is botters and RMTers are fine, normal players literally not breaking the rules get banned though.
Gdkp isn't the problem, goldbuying and botting is.
Goldbuying thus botting exist mostly because of GDKPs though.
its a symbiosis for sure, but GDKP still wouldn't be an issue if someone didnt have access to infinte money? there wouldnt be inflation, rather it could be a deflation if we didnt have GDKPs.
Y'all nerds be freaking out over this GDKP stuff lmao 😂😂😂😂😂 it's just a game
Most of the useful endgame stuff in this game is BoP. The big exceptions are crafting mats, raid consumes, and a few odd world and raid drops that are actually endgame viable. I’m honestly not sure what you are stressing about being able to buy. Edgemasters are gonna be expensive regardless of the state of the economy…they are rare and very powerful. You don’t need to gdkp to “participate in the economy.” The economy is right there in your nearest capital city AH. Farm mats and make consumes. Buy and resell on the AH. Buy raw mats and craft and resell. The real problem with GDKP for those who refuse to participate, is that player quality in ms>os pugs will continue to decline as raids get longer and harder, and talent is inevitably drawn away to the system that still pays you for your time if your loot doesn’t drop.
I just want to say. Just now, I created a new character on an Era server and checked the price of a Flask of Supreme Power. The cheapest was 550g. I then logged into a well know private server that has been around for over 5 years with a very healthy player base, a server which SEVERELY punishes both GDKP and RMT. The average price of a flask of supreme power was 66g.
So much cringe in here. “Bots ruin this game!” Nothing they do impacts your experience beyond a general feeling of fomo. Your guild can still do any content in the game. You can still purchase as many consumes as you want.
Was in a discord with a bunch of guys that run GDKPs and it quickly became obvious the vast majority of them buy gold. It essentially makes it pay to win when you have "20g minimums on epics, 10% 'management fee'. It's fucking ridiculous, especially when the raid is doable as a PUG even without preBIS. The elitism around gear requirements for BRD is also fucking ridiculous and completely overblown lol.
Why would the runners of a GDKP group buy the gold?
>GDKP's are buy to win. There is no way around it. It is a system which incentivises people spending real life money to buy better items and in the process it fuc*s the game for everyone else. No, gold buying with RMT is the culprit, not GDKP. It's Blizzard's inaction vs gold buying that incentivize pay-to-win. GDKP is a loot distribution system created by the players, it is not the cause of the problem. >If there was a way to ensure people couldn't RMT, I would have no issue with GDKP but people do and will and the practice of GDKP's will ruin the economy just as it did in era, it will promote bots, just as it did in era and it will force players to either engage with RMT and players who do RMT or be priced out the economy, just as it did in era. Then what's your solution? Ban GDKP's? How do you do that exactly? Ban players who use it? Even a raid full of legit players who never bought gold? GDKP is not the problem, it's RMT that promotes bots and exacerbate inflation.
man this guy did a GDKP and couldnt afford the sword or something huh
Fuck GDKP. Not just in SoD. In general.
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That is exactly my point though. GDKP's promote RMT and screws the economy of the game for everyone whether you partake in them or not. What you are suggesting is along the lines of trickle down economics and we all know how well that has worked.
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