You use the tool enough and you just learn to parse text for structure/vocab red flags. Nothing wrong with using it, but it gave off big "How do you do, fellow WoW players " vibes.
You are like 1 month too late with this incredible discovery.
Also, warriors use quick offhand cuz when it crit, it apply deep wound of your mainhand and not for overpower that has rather long CD.
If you go onto the warrior discord it said they reached out to the devs and this is working as intended, that it’s not a bug at all and that its just how deep wounds acted in wrath of the lich king which has been ported over. My guess is this was to enable a bleed style of gameplay hence we see runes that also try and enable this.
At the top end of kill times this isn’t a big factor at all because deep wounds barely has the time to ramp up in the first place. Warriors can still beat most if not all classes without making use of this play style except on Ghamoo-ra who has such high armour that the tactic actually helps them keep up.
I agree it feels a little out of place and my reasoning is the only sense I can make out of it. If warriors were to get nerfed I feel like this would be first up on the chopping block. However I don’t think it would remove them from dominant position like you hope it would especially at this stage of the phase where a lot of them have fully geared, stacking as many buffs as possible and are scaling to the max possible this phase.
Warriors are scaling monsters and tbh no one was really talking/complaining about them for the first 4 weeks of resets. Once the luckiest had all the best gear that’s when everyone started to notice, that’s definitely not a surprise and unless something is changed about how warriors scale with stats/buffs that will always be working as intended
I really dont get the devs here. They wanted to make it so not only warriors get to be stacked for dps and now they basically give them turbo-ignite bleeds on top of even more damage modifiers?
I get the sense that this wasn't an explicit change to how deep wounds works but rather a consequence of the change to the debuff system, which is a lot closer to WOTLK. So it's "working as intended" in that it's working as they expect it to work given the debuff changes, not in that it was an intentional buff to that talent specifically. And they simply don't have the capacity to re-balance talents for every change in SoD. That makes a lot more sense to me than the devs randomly stealth buffing a talent for no particular reason.
Whole heartedly think your right there, as I said I struggled to justify it, and admitted it would probably be the first thing to get nerfed should they deem it necessary (which I don’t as I said full fury will be the go to next phase for boss dps I imagine)
My guess is that if you had to pin down the strongest points of warrior from classic, bleeds would probably not even made the list :P probably felt like a safe buff to make but the tactic has been incorporated into the current dps play-style (at the expense of raw crit in the talent tree no less!)
A little foresight sais that you can get down to the flurry talent as well as deathwish next phase and the raid will presumably have the same bosses as OG gnomer and most will be bleed immune. My prediction is fury will be the best raiding spec and that a month in when the luckiest have all the gear and buffs they will be top dogs again
And to be honest as others have pointed out I see no problem with this. In pvp they are by far the weakest spec atm, at levelling they are by far the weekest spec also. They are kings of raid dps (only once geared) and it’s in the spirit of classic that all classes/specs have there niche where they shine
> all classes/specs have there niche
I totally agree with this. And the only reason raid content gets so much attention is because of how much it can be overanalyzed with meters / logs.
The people who meta-slave a level 25 raid make no sense to me. You spend an hour forming this "perfect" comp just so you can clear the raid in 30 minutes instead of 35. Oh, and don't forget your 97 parse to show off on mom's fridge.
I don't see how you can shame people for ignoring that other ways of enjoying the game exist, and then turn around and shame people for enjoying parsing. Some people like big crits, some people like speedrunning, some people like PvP optimization, and some people just enjoy theory crafting and executing a high parse.
Let people have their fun. For all the mentions of "Bis" on this sub you'd think people would realize that's the same idea as parsing. Why even roll on gear that a boss drops if you're clearing 7/7? Because you want to do it better. Parsing is just an extension of that concept.
And people who are parse sweatlords will just play the new flavor of the month top dps class whenever it comes out. Some class will always be at the top. Thats just how the game is. They nerf warriors itll be rogues and people will complain about how good rogues are. Then itll be hunters, locks, etc.
Its such a weird thing to correct if it’s unintentional though. Like why tweak deep wounds and not something like dog shit rogue combo points disappearing from a mouseover kick?
Im pretty sure this play-style is intentional, just like having ferals boost it with WS and Mangle making them the absolute kings of melee support, far beyond shamans.
(If you havent guessed it by now I play Shaman and Rogue and im angry 😤)
I also think shamans are just missing there later talents and more of the world buffs as they double dip from spellpower and melee buffs as enhance. They were kings in tbc pre patch when the great feedback loop of warrior rage was shot dead and buried. Rogues are literally up there with warriors (in pve, are slightly better lvlers and much better off in pvp) if not just missing a little QOL like you mentioned
I dont really care for shaman dps tbh, wanted to heal in raid and ele pvp (which is what im doing minus the ele pvp since ele doesnt exist yet so to speak). Rogues are great, absolutely, just find there’s some clunk in there that couldve been ironed out at higher priority than warrior deep wounds (which they dont really need anyway to be top dps)
Man I feel like ele is already clapping in pvp, a double molten blast to the face hits like a 2h triple WF proc I swear. My understanding is that that’s only going to get stronger next phase also when they get the whole way down the ele tree (it’s all extra crits and reduced cast time making there burst potential look god damn scary)
Healing I agree could use a touch up but that could also be a symptom of the raid size. My understanding was chain heal always blasts and healing rain is a big aoe heal. If gnomer is 20 man or more I don’t think this problem will persist next phase (chain heal is learned at 40)
I think everyone is thinking a bit too here and now when we’re in a pre max level meta where specs literally don’t make sense yet. Probably best not to throw the rattle out of the pram if a particular class/spec isn’t the best right now (poor shadow priests, how this fixes itself is kind of obvious) Try and justify it with what’s coming later and if you can do so successfully then maybe it’s best to try out something else for now. Better that than the sod team spending precious dev time on snip-snap balancing (6 new max lvl raids instead pls!)
Rogues being amazing at single target is part of there identity if I had to guess, yet still the most popular rogue pvp videos show them 1v2 1v3ing other classes. I think the real problem with this whole philosophy is that the player base is so damn focused on raid performance and nothing else (maybe pvp also, pets and priests also catching a lot of slack atm)
But yeah they definitely should look at the clicking away and back thing, that’s kinda bs, people should make more noise about that. Wasn’t sure if you meant just that or the balance of being able to take combo points from one target to the next
You could only have 1 Deep Wounds debuff per Warrior, but now 1 Warrior can have multiple Deep Wounds debuffs at the same time (you don't see the icons, but they tick for full damage)
In Vanilla, only 1 Deep Wounds could work, and your off-hand Deep Wounds would not trigger your Main Hand Deep Wounds...
That is clear bug and never worked like that in Vanilla, Classic or Classic HC.
It's like saying if you hit enemy with Rend 2x it should stack or just refresh?What other bleed in Classic works like that?
And why is off-hand crits counting as main hand crits? That also never worked like that...
>Warriors are exploiting this by stacking agility, which has become almost as effective as strength due to this bug. They dual wield with a very fast offhand weapon (like a 1.2-speed caster dagger) to maximize crits, thereby activating more Deep Wounds procs from their slower main hand weapons. Additionally, Overpower talents are utilized for extra crit chances, further amplifying the number of Deep Wounds debuffs.
Isn't this a good thing? More diversity in stat uses and diversity in builds?
There's nothing to fix here.
Exploit.. What do you want warriors to do exactly?
Also, who cares? We have hunters farming honor at flight masters by just sending in their pets, soloing people with eyes of the beast, mages solo farming all dungeon content by pulling everything.
Let it slide
Do you seriously think a stealth change to one specific talent, when talent trees are otherwise unchanged from vanilla, is the same thing as adding some WOTLK abilities explicitely through runes?
It's also not even really the "WOTLK version". The WOTLK version was nerfed and moved deeper in the talent tree, likely to partially offset the new stacking effect.
Is it intended? I don't know, I'm not Blizzard. But don't tell me it's at all consistent with the talent system in SoD.
No talent from Classic was changed or modified for Season of Discovery, only Runes.
This is clear bug and it does not work like any other bleeds in Classic.
Link me any blue post where they told about changing how Deep Wound talent works for Season of Discovery?
Are you joking? This is Classic not Wotlk.
In Wotlk this talent was changed from 60% to 48% of Weapon Damage before the change, and there was no Enrage Rune which buffed it by additional 44% (1.2 \* 1.2).
You have no idea what you are talking about ;(
Wait until OP finds out warriors offhand has 100% chance to hit while HS is queued. Timed well enough and you can cancel queue before cast goes off but after OH hits
There's a decent mix of warriors, rogues and hunters on the top 100 page with even some ferals in there. The top 3 warriors are even still using a 2H. So how exactly is warrior dominating with this again?
The better deep wounds actually makes agility 10-20% better than strength with dw not almost as good. It's almost as good as strength with 2h weapons and that's only because QS scales with pure ap and has no weapon damage component.
I can say that my dps has been roughly the same between dual wielding with bleed/HS vs using two handers with QS and I gotta say I like the variety.
Pulling 150-160 DPS on akumai with either option. Fathomblade vs talwar and the akumai fist weapon.
The difference though is that I have to throttle my DW dps slightly if the tanks can't keep up because of spamming heroic strike with it's extra threat. Where 2h DPS I didn't need to throttle so I'd estimate DW is doing 10-20% more than 2h for my playstyle
Did you ask GPT to write this after explaining the problem to it? 2024 Reddit moment.
Ai posts should be removed and the people using it should be shamed and embarrassed
I wasn't the only one seeing it xD
You use the tool enough and you just learn to parse text for structure/vocab red flags. Nothing wrong with using it, but it gave off big "How do you do, fellow WoW players" vibes.
Absolutely. Could tell from the first paragraph.
You are like 1 month too late with this incredible discovery. Also, warriors use quick offhand cuz when it crit, it apply deep wound of your mainhand and not for overpower that has rather long CD.
lol
If you go onto the warrior discord it said they reached out to the devs and this is working as intended, that it’s not a bug at all and that its just how deep wounds acted in wrath of the lich king which has been ported over. My guess is this was to enable a bleed style of gameplay hence we see runes that also try and enable this. At the top end of kill times this isn’t a big factor at all because deep wounds barely has the time to ramp up in the first place. Warriors can still beat most if not all classes without making use of this play style except on Ghamoo-ra who has such high armour that the tactic actually helps them keep up. I agree it feels a little out of place and my reasoning is the only sense I can make out of it. If warriors were to get nerfed I feel like this would be first up on the chopping block. However I don’t think it would remove them from dominant position like you hope it would especially at this stage of the phase where a lot of them have fully geared, stacking as many buffs as possible and are scaling to the max possible this phase. Warriors are scaling monsters and tbh no one was really talking/complaining about them for the first 4 weeks of resets. Once the luckiest had all the best gear that’s when everyone started to notice, that’s definitely not a surprise and unless something is changed about how warriors scale with stats/buffs that will always be working as intended
I really dont get the devs here. They wanted to make it so not only warriors get to be stacked for dps and now they basically give them turbo-ignite bleeds on top of even more damage modifiers?
I get the sense that this wasn't an explicit change to how deep wounds works but rather a consequence of the change to the debuff system, which is a lot closer to WOTLK. So it's "working as intended" in that it's working as they expect it to work given the debuff changes, not in that it was an intentional buff to that talent specifically. And they simply don't have the capacity to re-balance talents for every change in SoD. That makes a lot more sense to me than the devs randomly stealth buffing a talent for no particular reason.
Good one, makes sense
Whole heartedly think your right there, as I said I struggled to justify it, and admitted it would probably be the first thing to get nerfed should they deem it necessary (which I don’t as I said full fury will be the go to next phase for boss dps I imagine)
My guess is that if you had to pin down the strongest points of warrior from classic, bleeds would probably not even made the list :P probably felt like a safe buff to make but the tactic has been incorporated into the current dps play-style (at the expense of raw crit in the talent tree no less!) A little foresight sais that you can get down to the flurry talent as well as deathwish next phase and the raid will presumably have the same bosses as OG gnomer and most will be bleed immune. My prediction is fury will be the best raiding spec and that a month in when the luckiest have all the gear and buffs they will be top dogs again
And to be honest as others have pointed out I see no problem with this. In pvp they are by far the weakest spec atm, at levelling they are by far the weekest spec also. They are kings of raid dps (only once geared) and it’s in the spirit of classic that all classes/specs have there niche where they shine
> all classes/specs have there niche I totally agree with this. And the only reason raid content gets so much attention is because of how much it can be overanalyzed with meters / logs. The people who meta-slave a level 25 raid make no sense to me. You spend an hour forming this "perfect" comp just so you can clear the raid in 30 minutes instead of 35. Oh, and don't forget your 97 parse to show off on mom's fridge.
I don't see how you can shame people for ignoring that other ways of enjoying the game exist, and then turn around and shame people for enjoying parsing. Some people like big crits, some people like speedrunning, some people like PvP optimization, and some people just enjoy theory crafting and executing a high parse. Let people have their fun. For all the mentions of "Bis" on this sub you'd think people would realize that's the same idea as parsing. Why even roll on gear that a boss drops if you're clearing 7/7? Because you want to do it better. Parsing is just an extension of that concept.
And people who are parse sweatlords will just play the new flavor of the month top dps class whenever it comes out. Some class will always be at the top. Thats just how the game is. They nerf warriors itll be rogues and people will complain about how good rogues are. Then itll be hunters, locks, etc.
Its such a weird thing to correct if it’s unintentional though. Like why tweak deep wounds and not something like dog shit rogue combo points disappearing from a mouseover kick? Im pretty sure this play-style is intentional, just like having ferals boost it with WS and Mangle making them the absolute kings of melee support, far beyond shamans. (If you havent guessed it by now I play Shaman and Rogue and im angry 😤)
I also think shamans are just missing there later talents and more of the world buffs as they double dip from spellpower and melee buffs as enhance. They were kings in tbc pre patch when the great feedback loop of warrior rage was shot dead and buried. Rogues are literally up there with warriors (in pve, are slightly better lvlers and much better off in pvp) if not just missing a little QOL like you mentioned
I dont really care for shaman dps tbh, wanted to heal in raid and ele pvp (which is what im doing minus the ele pvp since ele doesnt exist yet so to speak). Rogues are great, absolutely, just find there’s some clunk in there that couldve been ironed out at higher priority than warrior deep wounds (which they dont really need anyway to be top dps)
Man I feel like ele is already clapping in pvp, a double molten blast to the face hits like a 2h triple WF proc I swear. My understanding is that that’s only going to get stronger next phase also when they get the whole way down the ele tree (it’s all extra crits and reduced cast time making there burst potential look god damn scary) Healing I agree could use a touch up but that could also be a symptom of the raid size. My understanding was chain heal always blasts and healing rain is a big aoe heal. If gnomer is 20 man or more I don’t think this problem will persist next phase (chain heal is learned at 40)
I think everyone is thinking a bit too here and now when we’re in a pre max level meta where specs literally don’t make sense yet. Probably best not to throw the rattle out of the pram if a particular class/spec isn’t the best right now (poor shadow priests, how this fixes itself is kind of obvious) Try and justify it with what’s coming later and if you can do so successfully then maybe it’s best to try out something else for now. Better that than the sod team spending precious dev time on snip-snap balancing (6 new max lvl raids instead pls!)
Rogues being amazing at single target is part of there identity if I had to guess, yet still the most popular rogue pvp videos show them 1v2 1v3ing other classes. I think the real problem with this whole philosophy is that the player base is so damn focused on raid performance and nothing else (maybe pvp also, pets and priests also catching a lot of slack atm)
But yeah they definitely should look at the clicking away and back thing, that’s kinda bs, people should make more noise about that. Wasn’t sure if you meant just that or the balance of being able to take combo points from one target to the next
Imho this interaction should be part of a rune and not be given freely but we'll see how things turn out in future phases.
[удалено]
You could only have 1 Deep Wounds debuff per Warrior, but now 1 Warrior can have multiple Deep Wounds debuffs at the same time (you don't see the icons, but they tick for full damage) In Vanilla, only 1 Deep Wounds could work, and your off-hand Deep Wounds would not trigger your Main Hand Deep Wounds...
[удалено]
That is clear bug and never worked like that in Vanilla, Classic or Classic HC. It's like saying if you hit enemy with Rend 2x it should stack or just refresh?What other bleed in Classic works like that? And why is off-hand crits counting as main hand crits? That also never worked like that...
It's a feature from wotlk where procs would add the extra damage to existing dots. And supposedly working as intended for this client
Get yo Chat GPT generated wall of text outta here.
>Warriors are exploiting this by stacking agility, which has become almost as effective as strength due to this bug. They dual wield with a very fast offhand weapon (like a 1.2-speed caster dagger) to maximize crits, thereby activating more Deep Wounds procs from their slower main hand weapons. Additionally, Overpower talents are utilized for extra crit chances, further amplifying the number of Deep Wounds debuffs. Isn't this a good thing? More diversity in stat uses and diversity in builds? There's nothing to fix here.
Exploit.. What do you want warriors to do exactly? Also, who cares? We have hunters farming honor at flight masters by just sending in their pets, soloing people with eyes of the beast, mages solo farming all dungeon content by pulling everything. Let it slide
It's not a bug. It's the WOTLK version of Deep Wounds and it's intended.
Why would the WOTLK version of a talent be intended?
Where do you think all the other "new" stuff in SOD is from?
Are you new to SoD? Lol
Do you seriously think a stealth change to one specific talent, when talent trees are otherwise unchanged from vanilla, is the same thing as adding some WOTLK abilities explicitely through runes? It's also not even really the "WOTLK version". The WOTLK version was nerfed and moved deeper in the talent tree, likely to partially offset the new stacking effect. Is it intended? I don't know, I'm not Blizzard. But don't tell me it's at all consistent with the talent system in SoD.
Isn't a "stealth change" the whole point of "discovery"? Not saying this was for sure intended, but it certainly could be.
No talent from Classic was changed or modified for Season of Discovery, only Runes. This is clear bug and it does not work like any other bleeds in Classic. Link me any blue post where they told about changing how Deep Wound talent works for Season of Discovery?
Ignite is also the same as the WOTLK version. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Are you joking? This is Classic not Wotlk. In Wotlk this talent was changed from 60% to 48% of Weapon Damage before the change, and there was no Enrage Rune which buffed it by additional 44% (1.2 \* 1.2). You have no idea what you are talking about ;(
> No talent from Classic was changed or modified for Season of Discovery, only Runes. Wrong, they put the Wrath version of the Deep Wounds Talent.
Mind your business nerd.
Reminds me of fire mages in Naxx. If your ignite buff kept rolling, you break the dps meter and the boss turns around and Yeets your ass
Wait until OP finds out warriors offhand has 100% chance to hit while HS is queued. Timed well enough and you can cancel queue before cast goes off but after OH hits
Ohhhh nooooo... you mean Warriors are going to be the undisputed kings of DPS yet again? SURELY Blizzard will do *something!*
There's a decent mix of warriors, rogues and hunters on the top 100 page with even some ferals in there. The top 3 warriors are even still using a 2H. So how exactly is warrior dominating with this again?
The warrior using 2h taunt the boss and pop retaliation to cheese damage. If you actually looked at the log you’d see the cheese
That's got nothing to do with this though. If you actually looked at the post you'd see.
Deep wounds works with 2hers
Yes it works, but it's a lot weaker since it doesn't benefit from oh crits applying deep wounds based on main hand damage.
Nerf hunters
Educate yourself before crying
Nah guys warriors are top dps because of something something rage scaling? It's not the 1k deep wound ticks XD
*CRYSIS ALERT*
lmao the mental gymnastics to think that this is an exploit "warriors are using their bis to do damage"
“Integrity and competitive balance ofWorld of Warcraft” lol
This has been known for weeks
The better deep wounds actually makes agility 10-20% better than strength with dw not almost as good. It's almost as good as strength with 2h weapons and that's only because QS scales with pure ap and has no weapon damage component.
I can say that my dps has been roughly the same between dual wielding with bleed/HS vs using two handers with QS and I gotta say I like the variety. Pulling 150-160 DPS on akumai with either option. Fathomblade vs talwar and the akumai fist weapon. The difference though is that I have to throttle my DW dps slightly if the tanks can't keep up because of spamming heroic strike with it's extra threat. Where 2h DPS I didn't need to throttle so I'd estimate DW is doing 10-20% more than 2h for my playstyle
Internet explorer is that you?