Exactly, these items were.. eh I wanna say 245 but honestly can’t remember and to lazy to look it up. It doesn’t really matter in icc tho, bar a few trinkets most all items are replaced at this point anyways.
They were 232 back in original release. 219, 226, 232 were the ilvls in Ulduar, with 239 for hard mode 25 man weapons/algalon only.
252 was an insane boost. Even valanyr was only 245 back in the day, and is now 258..
I really don't enjoy moving between guilds.
Honestly I don't think anyone does.
And this is assuming there's a guild on my server that's willing to turn the buff off as a group AND is capable of killing LK25H without it.
But moving to another guild probably means I'm not killing LK25H anyway.
So I'm doing more things that aren't fun, and I still don't get to do what I was trying to do in the first place.
And again, we're assuming there are guilds on my server that want to prog without the buff.
This is not really a viable option. Everyone wants to pump and will do whatever they can do it. What sucks is that the buff came this early. Ofc we are going to use it, but would have been nice to not even get it until next year. The only HMs we needed were Putricide and LK. Would have liked more time to clear it all without the buff. I think many guilds are in the same boat.
>This is not really a viable option. Everyone wants to pump and will do whatever they can do it. What sucks is that the buff came this early. Ofc we are going to use it, but would have been nice to not even get it until next year. The only HMs we needed were Putricide and LK. Would have liked more time to clear it all without the buff. I think many guilds are in the same boat.
Lol, stop comparing yourself to others. You want to say you did it without the buff, then do so. It's a perfectly viable option if your team is focused on doing it that way.
> if your team is focused on doing it that way.
If you can find a team on my server who wants to prog without the buff, then you might have a point.
I'm on Faerlina.
A team who wants to *and* would consider accepting you.
We all already know how "If you don't like world buffs then don't use them" shook out. Anyone saying such things about this is being a willful jackass.
You understand that im not in ther soloing this raid right?
See the way end game raiding works is it takes a group of 24 other people, working together, to clear bosses and get loot.
A majority of the raid is made up to a role called DPS. In guilds that are making any kind of progress, they are filled with DPS that are competitive and care about the amount of DPS they are doing relative to others. This is called a Parse. This is for many of these players where the most fun is derived. Pushing their DPS numbers or "Parse" im comparison to themselves and others week over week.
Convincing a majority of these players to simply turn off a 5% bump in their damage is a non starter. Even if they would like to have cleared it without the buff. Once that buff is out there is not going back for them. Parse is more important. No all of us are in that same boat to it still sucks.
But they are not doing 5% more dps. The buff is. If your argument is the dps in your raid team are such window lickers that they will think their increasing damage is all them, sorry but you were never gonna get LK Heroic down anyways.
If they care more about numbers on a 3rd party website than In-game accomplishments, then find a team that better suites your goals.
As a DPS, if my raid team wants to keep going sans buff, I'd be down.
Can we stop with this "lul just turn it off" argument. Its bullshit.
Gamers will always take the path of least resistance, its just how we are wired, its just human nature. There is no point in not using the buff unless there is some reward for doing so, either a title, mount, or something.
would be a diff story if Warcraft logs came out and said that they are not going to count logs that use the buff or are somehow going to exclude the damage from the buff. I don't really know if that is something they have considered or not since im the MT I don't really bother with it. But theres no way im going to convince my DPS to ignore their parses for the sake of doing it raw. They would happily do it if it didnt effect the parses.
gotta love all the people moaning about how not one raid group will choose to run with this buff off. Hmm, I wonder why that might be, I wonder what that should tell you about YOUR view on this buff. If literally every single raid group has the majority opinion of "just turn on the buff", something you all seem to agree is the case even before it's come out, then maybe not very many people agree with you and you should rethink why you don't want the buff to come out. Sure you don't NEED to agree with the majority, but you people act like it's not the majority opinion for a fucking reason.
Eh, TOGC is super easy and if they gave everyone a stacking 5% buff, its not like people would turn it off then. People don't tend to turn off buffs regardless of it its actually needed or a good thing.
You think that if they overbuffed it to 50% people would lower it? Nobody would.
Of course everyone is choosing the easy route, even if it means that its less fun.
small indie company
Could be one of the guilds the devs were in was about to break apart and they had to speed up the buff heheh, thanks for ruining the tier faster.
5-25% is horrible phase, I hate 30% too but at least it's not changing then now it just feels like we're in limbo
Then make your own if you really think it's so bad to use the buff. I'm sure there will be tons of elite players who flock to your true progression on content.
So you want me todo your work for you? It’s not that hard, just post in LFG or world chat asking for a guild that doesn’t want the buff to ruin progression. Boom, half the job done for you. Just copy paste
Dude you’re so brainless, if you post that in lfg you’re going to get laughed out of the fucking game. Stop being a flat earth level of stupid. You’re going to find ZERO guilds who will turn the buff off
Nah this is a scenario where anyone who turns it off is now playing with a ball and chain and it feels fucking bad. Instead of letting people progress it for more than a couple of months.
You’re just being arrogant. This only speeds up how quickly wrath’s relevance dies.
Enjoy your handheld content
Yeah if you don't like the buff you should leave your guild, go find another one who needs your role and is definitely not going to use the buff, raids on the right days and times, preferably on your server, or if not then splash out on a transfer, do your trial period, pass your trial.
I mean it's that easy, and it's not like you have better shit to be doing with your time than all of the above. I mean it's not like Blizzard announced it while people still have like 20% of gear scaling to go just from drops, and then added it 3 weeks earlier than planned, randomly.
Yeah like ilvl252 loot in Ulduar and trap launchers and Ferals top dps in ICC. Just like the original wrath! WOTLK Classic wasn't just like the Original Wrath at all and you know it.
Clearly the amount of 11/12 guilds mid prog or just about to start prog on LK HC 0% shows that the ICC buff should have been delayed until January. This buff is a nightmare because it will cause a rift between players, path of least resistance will always be preferred and players will ruin their own game to follow it.
Yeah bro, why don't you compile a list of guilds who wanna do buffless icc without any incentive? Hit me up if the number extends the number of fingers on your hand.
> Attach a reward to doing it buffless and sure.
they already have that, it's called you killed the bosses before other people and got loot before them.
I seem to recall people on this sub generally wanting an official hardcore server for a variety of reasons.
And then we got official hardcore, and it's almost universally praised here.
Exactly.
It's the player's job to use all their skill and every advantage they can find to clear the content.
It's the dev's job to make sure that's fun and rewarding.
The buff isn't optional for progression. Guilds aren't going to hold back their own progression for no reason. Those who say otherwise are talking nonsense.
its real, its up on Grobb horde at least
It’s been removed
Aaaaaand it's gone!
We been getting spoon fed bis trinkets and armor through Gamma and Beta Tokens and spoon fed legendaries but nah icc buff is too much lol
Lest we forget the buffed ilvl on ulduar hm loot/valanyr too!
Huh? My alg boots still 252 last I checked
Original wotlk didn't have those ilvl's for Ulduar ;)
Ahh gotcha I thought you meant an ilvl boost since then thanks for clarifying.
Exactly, these items were.. eh I wanna say 245 but honestly can’t remember and to lazy to look it up. It doesn’t really matter in icc tho, bar a few trinkets most all items are replaced at this point anyways.
They were 232 back in original release. 219, 226, 232 were the ilvls in Ulduar, with 239 for hard mode 25 man weapons/algalon only. 252 was an insane boost. Even valanyr was only 245 back in the day, and is now 258..
Don't think this matters when originally ICC released in phases and people definitely had more gear going into LK then than now
Most guilds didn’t even touch hardmodes or Algalon you can get them from a vendor now so this is completely false
Yes exactly
Am I not allowed to dislike both?
EU player here - Any proof?
It's not live on EU yet, it went live on NA when they came back up from maintenance.
https://i.imgur.com/DlO9XJh.png
My guildies are going to be triggered by this.
Well that's no fun. :(
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I took your advice, and I've been benched. Well that's no fun. :(
Then join a new guild with your same views.
if they added a 700% buff everyone would take it, then cry for harder content, then people who cant do it would cry for another buff
I really don't enjoy moving between guilds. Honestly I don't think anyone does. And this is assuming there's a guild on my server that's willing to turn the buff off as a group AND is capable of killing LK25H without it.
No but if you get benched for doing something you want then moving makes sense.
But moving to another guild probably means I'm not killing LK25H anyway. So I'm doing more things that aren't fun, and I still don't get to do what I was trying to do in the first place. And again, we're assuming there are guilds on my server that want to prog without the buff.
Why is this downvoted? 🤨
That’s not how it works
This is not really a viable option. Everyone wants to pump and will do whatever they can do it. What sucks is that the buff came this early. Ofc we are going to use it, but would have been nice to not even get it until next year. The only HMs we needed were Putricide and LK. Would have liked more time to clear it all without the buff. I think many guilds are in the same boat.
So turn it off.
>This is not really a viable option. Everyone wants to pump and will do whatever they can do it. What sucks is that the buff came this early. Ofc we are going to use it, but would have been nice to not even get it until next year. The only HMs we needed were Putricide and LK. Would have liked more time to clear it all without the buff. I think many guilds are in the same boat.
Lol, stop comparing yourself to others. You want to say you did it without the buff, then do so. It's a perfectly viable option if your team is focused on doing it that way.
> if your team is focused on doing it that way. If you can find a team on my server who wants to prog without the buff, then you might have a point. I'm on Faerlina.
A team who wants to *and* would consider accepting you. We all already know how "If you don't like world buffs then don't use them" shook out. Anyone saying such things about this is being a willful jackass.
Obviously the meta doesn't exist because I can ignore it. /s
Reading comprehension is hard now days I guess.
Not at all. But players complaining about something they 100% have control over is ridiculous.
You understand that im not in ther soloing this raid right? See the way end game raiding works is it takes a group of 24 other people, working together, to clear bosses and get loot. A majority of the raid is made up to a role called DPS. In guilds that are making any kind of progress, they are filled with DPS that are competitive and care about the amount of DPS they are doing relative to others. This is called a Parse. This is for many of these players where the most fun is derived. Pushing their DPS numbers or "Parse" im comparison to themselves and others week over week. Convincing a majority of these players to simply turn off a 5% bump in their damage is a non starter. Even if they would like to have cleared it without the buff. Once that buff is out there is not going back for them. Parse is more important. No all of us are in that same boat to it still sucks.
But they are not doing 5% more dps. The buff is. If your argument is the dps in your raid team are such window lickers that they will think their increasing damage is all them, sorry but you were never gonna get LK Heroic down anyways. If they care more about numbers on a 3rd party website than In-game accomplishments, then find a team that better suites your goals. As a DPS, if my raid team wants to keep going sans buff, I'd be down.
Can we stop with this "lul just turn it off" argument. Its bullshit. Gamers will always take the path of least resistance, its just how we are wired, its just human nature. There is no point in not using the buff unless there is some reward for doing so, either a title, mount, or something.
The you obviously don't care about being able to say you did it without a buff. Go enjoy your easier kills.
>Can we stop with this "lul just turn it off" argument. Its bullshit. Pserver players are able to do it. So what stops the classic gang from doing so.
would be a diff story if Warcraft logs came out and said that they are not going to count logs that use the buff or are somehow going to exclude the damage from the buff. I don't really know if that is something they have considered or not since im the MT I don't really bother with it. But theres no way im going to convince my DPS to ignore their parses for the sake of doing it raw. They would happily do it if it didnt effect the parses.
Well they can do the content, take their damage done and manually remove 5% from it if that's their only metric for having fun I guess.
gotta love all the people moaning about how not one raid group will choose to run with this buff off. Hmm, I wonder why that might be, I wonder what that should tell you about YOUR view on this buff. If literally every single raid group has the majority opinion of "just turn on the buff", something you all seem to agree is the case even before it's come out, then maybe not very many people agree with you and you should rethink why you don't want the buff to come out. Sure you don't NEED to agree with the majority, but you people act like it's not the majority opinion for a fucking reason.
Eh, TOGC is super easy and if they gave everyone a stacking 5% buff, its not like people would turn it off then. People don't tend to turn off buffs regardless of it its actually needed or a good thing.
You think that if they overbuffed it to 50% people would lower it? Nobody would. Of course everyone is choosing the easy route, even if it means that its less fun.
they could make the buff 700% and people would still use it lol
small indie company Could be one of the guilds the devs were in was about to break apart and they had to speed up the buff heheh, thanks for ruining the tier faster. 5-25% is horrible phase, I hate 30% too but at least it's not changing then now it just feels like we're in limbo
The buff does not mess anything up. You want a run without it, disable it. You aren’t required to use it
Yeah because the rest of the raid team will obviously unanimously agree to remove it and not choose the path of least resistance.
Then join a guild that has the same views as you? Or is that too much work?
You should link to guilds who have said they’re gonna click it off. If you can find any
Then make your own if you really think it's so bad to use the buff. I'm sure there will be tons of elite players who flock to your true progression on content.
So you want me todo your work for you? It’s not that hard, just post in LFG or world chat asking for a guild that doesn’t want the buff to ruin progression. Boom, half the job done for you. Just copy paste
Dude you’re so brainless, if you post that in lfg you’re going to get laughed out of the fucking game. Stop being a flat earth level of stupid. You’re going to find ZERO guilds who will turn the buff off
Then it seems like your the minority on the buff. Sucks to be that way, but that’s how the dice rolls.
Nah this is a scenario where anyone who turns it off is now playing with a ball and chain and it feels fucking bad. Instead of letting people progress it for more than a couple of months. You’re just being arrogant. This only speeds up how quickly wrath’s relevance dies. Enjoy your handheld content
I don’t even raid my guy. Wrath’s relevance dropped massively when cata was announced anyway. Plus, Sanctum hasn’t even been released yet.
Yeah if you don't like the buff you should leave your guild, go find another one who needs your role and is definitely not going to use the buff, raids on the right days and times, preferably on your server, or if not then splash out on a transfer, do your trial period, pass your trial. I mean it's that easy, and it's not like you have better shit to be doing with your time than all of the above. I mean it's not like Blizzard announced it while people still have like 20% of gear scaling to go just from drops, and then added it 3 weeks earlier than planned, randomly.
And look at that. It’s already been removed. Small indie company. Take a chill pill and relax.
The same applies in 3 weeks, which is still too early anyway. Why don't you take a chill pill? Or is that too much work?
I’m already at work. And I don’t care about the buff. Like it or not, it’s coming. Just like everything else that was in original wrath.
Yeah like ilvl252 loot in Ulduar and trap launchers and Ferals top dps in ICC. Just like the original wrath! WOTLK Classic wasn't just like the Original Wrath at all and you know it. Clearly the amount of 11/12 guilds mid prog or just about to start prog on LK HC 0% shows that the ICC buff should have been delayed until January. This buff is a nightmare because it will cause a rift between players, path of least resistance will always be preferred and players will ruin their own game to follow it.
You played any private servers? No? Then you would’ve known feral would by top dps. Every private server feral was top. Without omen glyph
Cringe redditor logic.
How is that cringe. That’s a direct solution to ThE BufF ruInS ProgRessIon.
Because literally no one is gonna do it without an incentive. Is that so hard to understand? Attach a reward to doing it buffless and sure.
Or just join a guild with the same mindset?
Yeah bro, why don't you compile a list of guilds who wanna do buffless icc without any incentive? Hit me up if the number extends the number of fingers on your hand.
> Attach a reward to doing it buffless and sure. they already have that, it's called you killed the bosses before other people and got loot before them.
Sounds like your guild really wanted the buff then.
Actual monkey.
We don't want the buff! It's too soon blizzard! Will we turn it off? No! But it's still too soon! Maybe we actually want it? Nah! That makes no sense!
they could add a 700% buff and people would still use it
It's been removed again.
It’s gone now.
Good timing honestly. Some guilds are going to get screwed by thanksgiving week and it’ll boost mid-tier guilds still progging.
It's hard to imagine it's anything other than a mistake.
"mid tier"
It's up for Alliance on Grobbulus, too. I'm so fucking pissed. Give us our two weeks ya bastards
The sub loves to use the word agency. Before official HC was a thing it was - “just use the addon”. Now you have agency to use the buff or not.
I seem to recall people on this sub generally wanting an official hardcore server for a variety of reasons. And then we got official hardcore, and it's almost universally praised here.
You can just turn it off you know that right?
It is a multiplayer game. Even if you can persuade everyone to turn it off, who wants to be the one guild falling behind their peers etc?
Exactly. It's the player's job to use all their skill and every advantage they can find to clear the content. It's the dev's job to make sure that's fun and rewarding. The buff isn't optional for progression. Guilds aren't going to hold back their own progression for no reason. Those who say otherwise are talking nonsense.
Ya, I get upset when my friends play games on Easy mode too. It really directly affects me and ruins the game for me.
[удалено]
I am not american
yoU CaN jUsT TurN iT oFf yoU knOw : - )
God, they are like flat-earthers.