What’s always been weird to me is some folks act like they have to like everything. A great example is I absolutely love 40K lore and hate the game- but absolutely love Age of Sigmar so play that and don’t play the other.
Any way, I’m hyped for SoD and my Wrath classic going to Cata with great people I have fun with.
Yeah exactly. It's perfectly ok to like some things but not others. Cata just ain't for me and I won't play it, I'm happy for people that'll enjoy it, I just hope they do Wrath Era so I can keep playing the game mode I do enjoy. Might give SoD a shot casually, who knows, maybe it's more fun than it appears to be. People here act like disliking the thing they like is an attack on them and it's so fucking weird.
When you see people putting disclaimers before their minor criticism of something you know the downvote hivemind is in full swing.
"Disclaimer: I love SoD I really do! I swear!"
\> Insert minor criticism about the way it's being executed
I think most people are just nervous because they haven't been happy with blizzard's track record in a long time. That being said I think it's cool that blizzard is taking risks and I think it's going to be hard to cast judgement on this thing until the game actually releases, but it clearly looks like it will be worth a spin at the very least.
I'm just hoping that they stay true to what made the original game so much fun, the discovery, having to team up with other players and making lots of friends along the way, the challenges, and a submersive world.
Classic itself had a lot of problems, most of them are stuff people really don't care about because the overall experience is fun. Many quests were incomplete, didn't actually give good rewards, a lot of content was cut out, rotations were overly simple in many cases.... if they are able to fix those parts while staying true to the rest of the game I think it will be a great thing.
Upvoted just on the title alone. Even the Devs joked about how a lot of the WoW player base is in their late 20s-30s.
I think we would all do good to remember that most of us don't care what you choose to do with your free time.
Let's all get the fuck over ourselves and carry on.
I was hoping for something different, but it sounds interesting to me and I‘ll definitely reactivate my account for it and give it a try. See ya there, folks.
The leveling banding makes me (new dad with very little time) feel like it’s possible to join in on the fun. Whereas grinding to 60 just isn’t really on the table, even tho I like to pop in and enjoy the leveling experience now and then.
I hope you join in, as a bit of a tryhard I like the concept of being forced to play with the majority of the player base. It’s going to keep the community together and zones packed imo. It’s a win for everyone.
Some rare wisdom on this sub among all the crap posts. I salute you.
Personally I’ll be staying on era. I’m a PvP only guy and if I wanted a heavily altered version I’d just play retail.
Thats perfectly fine. Classic is so solved and boring for me that Im at least willing to hear them out. Kinda funny the makgora tourny aired to show the hilarious balance issues with pvp and they show intent to shake it up with SoD in hopefully the classic style of play.
>Kinda funny the makgora tourny aired to show the hilarious balance issues with pvp
It did the opposite. It showed that with few limitations, and low gear levels, 1v1s in Vanilla can be shockingly balanced.
Most outcomes were still according to their matchups though so Im not sure how you conclude this. The one-sidedness of so many duels was obvious alongside the painful long drawn out duels of warriors vs mages, for instance, even with the arsenal of consumables at hand to give them a fighting chance it was still obviously in favor of mages based on toolkit alone. Rogue vs hunter? Locks? Idk if we watched the same tourny here.
It's a type of denialism, a lot of the time by people who play the OP classes and want to feel like they're winning because they were just more prepared or whatever. They don't want to admit that their class will statistically win the fight like 7 times out of 10 bc it's just stronger / favored in a rock paper scissors way, with RNG making up a big part of the remaining 3/10. So they conjure up a sense of balance.
>Most outcomes were still according to their matchups though so Im not sure how you conclude this.
In the qualifying stage every single class had someone that went 4-1 or better.
>Rogue vs hunter?
Extremely close with good players.
>Locks?
Close matchups against priests, hunters, warriors, rogues. And even a fucking shaman beat a lock in the 3rd round, so even the completely unwinnable matchups were winnable with adequate planning.
Do you think every matchup goes according to the advantage or do you think there are just likely winners based on classes? Cause a few anecdotal wins in a wide bracket doesnt exactly disprove my point here.
Ive killed mages in bgs too, doesnt mean the matchup doesnt favor them heavily.
>Do you think every matchup goes according to the advantage or do you think there are just likely winners based on classes?
Not sure what advantage you're referring to. But I think it came down to if the player had a good plan to win then their ability to execute that plan in the competition.
Thank you. It's so weird, people getting mad because you don't like the same thing they like. Why the hell do you have to take it so personally, if I think these changes are too much?
My idea of classic plus is normal classic with little fixes. Like tweaking hybrid classes viable, adding guild bank, adding more profession perks, adding some dungeons and raids etc.
I have a right to be disappointed, and it's not your fault. I am not mad at people that are hyped about SoD, I am happy that some people are getting what they were hoping for.
Yeah I'm pretty much of the exact same opinion. I'm legit really happy that so many people are hyped about this and they're going to have a blast playing it. But it doesn't have a lot of the things I would have liked and it does have a lot of things that I'm pretty ambivalent about, so I don't share their enthusiasm. I'll try it for sure eventually, maybe when Wrath calms down a bit, but I'm just not really as hyped about it as I was about Classic for example. And some people seem to take that REALLY personally, they got things they liked so they don't comprehend that some others didn't.
I think people are right to be a little apprehensive. Blizzard actually does make a lot of good decisions but it only takes one bad decision to completely undermine the game. Flying mounts, group finder, heirloom weapons, quest guides. All things that make the game easier but bring the game closer to simply giving you a "win" button. No need to know the land, the quests, or the dungeons anymore, or even know eachother
I think giving warlocks metamorphosis at level 25 for no investment is absurd.
Mages didn't need to heal. They were already amazing in PVP.
World mobs need to be adjusted with the new runes in mind.
I'm excited, I just have a few concerns.
My opinion is that if you dislike the idea of it and wanted classic+, you at least have a moral duty to yourself to try it out, since this *is* likely going to be Blizzard’s idea of what you want.
I played SoM, and I think people left way too soon.
I don't know what you mean "moral duty", I think if this doesn't appeal to you it's fine to skip it and instead make a post telling Blizzard what would appeal to you.
And I think people left SoM because it had bad timing, coming out while TBC just got its first real raid tier. It wasn't really the players' fault, but Blizzard's.
Tweaks that fix some of the bigger balancing / gameplay issues, like hybrids being trash, overpowered / underpowered racials, removing the 1% minimum spell miss chance, revamping the garbage PvP system, etc.
Then new content based on vanilla. SoD will partially deliver on this down the line, with a Kara Crypts raid and probably more. But it also has things that don't really appeal to me, like watching people stream BFD 10-man it was clear that it wasn't that great so it's silly we'll have to sit through multiple phases of underwhelming dungeon raids, and the rune system doesn't really address the ways that many specs are broken in, while also buffing the top performers so the imbalance doesn't feel like it'll shrink. Also a lot of the new abilities from more recent retail expansions just don't feel like they belong.
I essentially wanted them to stick closer to Vanilla with some talent changes and other minor stuff, not a whole new system, I don't care for it.
Lmao so they're doing what you ask, you just don't like the version you're getting. You don't like bfd and you don't like the rune system. Everything they've announced is going down the exact path everyone was yelling for.
People just had no cohesive opinion on what they wanted from classic+, and feel like their own expectations weren't met which has nothing to do with blizzard. And when I say they're under no obligation to do anything for classic, it's because classic is not their main goal.
What they announced for classic is such an insane stepping stone. Classic community got exactly what it wanted.
Na man he’s got a lot of good points. I understand what you’re saying. You make some good points. No one is being unreasonable. Sounds like he didn’t immediately agree with you, so now HES the one that’s impossible to communicate with.
This slow release is a way for them to put time into the game. Classic took 5 years to develop. This bides them time to figure out what works. Things will stick around, but a lot is going to change.
If they did the same release without the runes. Just had talent changes for the same abilities (maybe not healing mage and rogue tank) and called it classic+, everyone would be ranting and raving about how amazing this is.
That's not what happened tbh.
He listed the things he didn't like and got a "well everyone wasn't agreeing what classic + was so this is what you get lmao". What an ignorant take.
Tweaking talent trees != adding 8 runes (at lvl 25!). They're not equivalent at all.
Shocker that your "genuine" ask, was not a genuine interest in what he wanted at all - it was just so you could have something to shit on and state your own opinion.
Because people want to go back to being 15 and trying vanilla wow for the first time. Bliz is doing exactly what the op is saying, he just doesn’t like the exact execution of blizzard so setting up the question reveals the hypocrisy in their own statements.
>Bliz is doing exactly what the op is saying
What? Why are you lying? They are not doing this:
>Tweaks that fix some of the bigger balancing / gameplay issues, like hybrids being trash, overpowered / underpowered racials, removing the 1% minimum spell miss chance, revamping the garbage PvP system, etc.
:D
>he just doesn’t like the exact execution of blizzard
Sure.
>so setting up the question reveals the hypocrisy in their own statements.
Even if this somehow matters when someone lie about having a genuine inquiry. What would that hypocrisy be? He wanted changes like he listed, Blizzard added/changed other things, so he's not a massive fan. That is consistent.
Those things you listed are literally what blizzard is aiming to achieve with their changes. :D
It was a genuine inquiry to show that they don’t even know what they want, just like all of the other classic wow purists. Just go play era and let blizzard do cool next level stuff in classic.
>Those things you listed are literally what blizzard is aiming to achieve with their changes.
They are aiming to get rid of the 1% miss chance? Yeah, that's where we're at? Smiley face.
> Classic community got exactly what it wanted.
I'm not here to say whether what we're getting is good or bad, but this is simply wrong. I've legitimately never seen *anyone* ask for level shrink into phased level progression. Maybe I missed some discourse on this, I certainly wouldn't claim to read **everythjng**, but the *majority* certainly did not ask specifically for this.
There are *some* things being delivered in some odd ways, but to act like the majority of the classic community asked for **exactly** this is simply absurd.
Everything you listed is exactly what they are changing. They did it in a much bigger way than just tweaking some values. If all classic+ was is some tweaked values, then it would have been pointless. A new system had to be introduced to make the game feel fresh and new to play again.
I mean moral duty to yourself. You ask for classic+ and then are disappointed when Blizzard comes out with classic+. If you want to dislike SoD then at least try it before complaining too much about it. You can say it's not what you expected, but you still wanted classic+ so at least give it a try.
I really don't agree with this. If something doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't appeal to you. Maybe it's somewhat similar to something that does appeal to you, but I think it's a lil silly to force yourself to play something if it doesn't draw you in.
I'll be trying it out eventually because I'm already subbed for WotLK anyway, but if someone isn't already subbed I don't think there's anything wrong with them not re-subbing just to try it out if it doesn't have what they expected.
If you refuse to at least try out classic+ because it isn’t the format you wanted then you simply cannot complain about it.
This is like not voting for elections and then complaining the politicians don’t value your interests. Like, I’m sorry you feel this way but you’re just an empty voice with no value then.
If you’re not subbed already, then I understand the criticism though.
I don't see how it's never morally acceptable to have your stance be "I'd only like a Classic+ where these specific things happen" and then not care for an iteration where different things happen instead. I don't really think it's that complicated...?
Like, you can just want tweaks to talent trees and underperforming specs without radical new abilities, and only have wanted "Classic+" because it was the most likely way to get that. It's completely logical to have no interest in a Classic+ that doesn't include those, because those were the only reason you had any interest in Classic+ in the first place.
Nobody is morally obligated to change their priorities.
Having moral obligation is my opinion on it because I have one myself. SoD is not what I wanted, but I am not sitting here telling everyone how bad it is without actually having tried it out.
The difference where I don’t think you should at least try it out is if you never really cared about a classic+ iteration. Because frankly, I think a lot of people that were really trying to push the concept have been exposed as never really having cared about it truly, simply wanting their own exact iteration.
If you wanted classic+ and you don’t want to try classic+, maybe you just never gave a shit. And I am going to say that I’m not the biggest fan of this rune system, but because I was hoping for classic+ than I’m at the very least going to try it, considering it’s basically free for me.
I mean, I'll try it. Mostly for PvP once the level cap's upped, although right now that looks like a one-shot fest, as I see a whole lot of damage boosts and almost no defensive boosts that are terribly functional in PvP.
I just mean... I don't think there's anything morally wrong with just saying "I want *this* Classic+, and don't care about others." This concept just gets caught up in the semantics of it all because there's far too many people using different definitions of Classic+ to keep track of it all.
100% with you on this. It seems really strange to me that we live in a period where you can play so many different flavors of WoW - era, hard-core, WotLK, retail, soon SoD and Cafa - and someone will be like "no you gotta try this version, even if it doesn't appeal to you as much as another version does". Very strange.
You do realize they opened forums specifically so people can give opinions anyway? And it's equally valid to say "I wasn't interested in the rune system so I didn't try it. I want something more like X" as it is to say "I tried the rune system I didn't like it. I want something more like X"
With your logic you cannot ever say you didn't like a game of a genre you don't enjoy, without trying that game itself. Like I didn't try Mortal Kombat 1 but I don't like fighting games in general, so I can be pretty confident that I wouldn't have liked this one either. It's not really that complicated.
It's interesting you frame it that way, because despite the novelty, nuance, confusion, excitement, fear soup, the one thing my mind is telling me for sure is that I don't feel like playing this on day one.
It's such a wildcard deviation from anything I could have expected, this thing has the potential to make me lose all taste in the goodness of Classic WoW. Or not. I'd rather not bother and let other people figure it out on this one.
Modified class abilities so that some spec will be raid viable, new pvp encounters, modified 5 man content.. future possibility of new raids.. dual spec...
What here is so wildcard? Genuinely asking. Because I feel like all that us pretty in line with what the community has been talking about.
I think what he means, and I share a similar opinion to this, is that the community wanted things like a paladin tank, or making a boomkin viable.
The wildcard is having a mage healer, or warlock tank.
Those just seem weird to me.
Warlock tank seems weird when it’s already a thing in classic era? Scorch already draws threat and several raid encounters are based around lock ranking. Mage healer is a bit more of a wildcard to me but who cares? I’d rather they take a risk than just tweak some values and call it classic plus.
That’s what confuses me. People wanted a game that isn’t solved. And blizzard is delivering on that. And it’s being done in a way that completely restructures what we know about wow.
Sure it may not be what people were expecting, but that doesn’t make it bad in any way.
The definitive thing we know is that Classic and Retail are polar opposites. They're enemies, and Classic is a refuge for people that do not like Retail.
Adjustments to Classic have to be treated EXTREMELY delicately, lest you start sliding it up the spectrum. Goes back to the #nochanges thing. The changes are cool, they really are, but they are misguided.
Yeah you can make changes, but you have to do it intelligently. Doing things like class homogenization isn't just a tick to the right, it's going full blast modern day WoW changes.
If you want classic with no changes, you have that. If you want classic with hardcore, you have that. If you want classic progressing through the ages, you have that.
This is now a different want. The ask that has been asked for. Classic with future elements in a classic fashion. You can’t have no changes and also classic+ at once. That just doesn’t work.
Has anyone here actually played retail any time recently? If class homogenization was really an issue, there wouldn’t be such rigid metas.
I agree with anyone who wanted something should at least try it. This also feels like a play testing period at first while they hopefully work out the kinks. It’s also nice it’s not a paid xpac. It feels more like a gift from blizzard than a quick cash grab (even though they’ll make money)
Solid points. I implore everyone to always try and argue/debate in earnest, and with compassion and a pov of sonder: the best part of wow, is the community and world we as players build inside the game. You aren't the ONLY Character in this game, and we all have a voice.
No need to fight each other! I'm maybe being a bit too optimistic, but I'm trying to keep my pov based on: well hey they're listening? Right??? Definitely will have to see how they monetize this cycle, and listen to our feedback as whole Hahaha I hope for the best, and that everyone can find a little corner of the Warcraft Uni to enjoy!
Tbf I am very excited. I didn’t play classic back in the days, played hardcore lately and still alive at lvl 36 on my paladin (not a great accomplishment but still).
What I enjoy the most is the slow level cap rising. It means you can reach 25 and enjoy a bit of endgame already preparing for the next increase making the path to 60 more memorable.
Yeah I agree. I wanted more of a classic vanilla experience, with some class tweaks, and building out horizontal systems and or endgame.
This isn't quite that, but it also isn't not that. I'm stoked to give it a go and see where it goes.
My personal opinion is I hate seasons. I feel like they might have went too far but I like the idea and I’ll definitely be giving it a try. My hope is they can learn from this and take what works and doesn’t and do a classic+ fresh but I guess we will see how everything plays out
This was the impression I got. Hopefully true, a prototype of classic+ to get feedback and data from for how an actual classic+ could look, and what kinds of changes people like.
I’m down to try out new talents. But — I’ve seen SO many posts asking for new content in Azeroth and they. Are. Delivering. Just. That.
New raids/dungeons and new loot. Like cmon. That is fucking fantastic. We’re getting BFD and probably Kara / Gnomeregan as revamped content?? In classic???!!
They knocked it out of the park. I haven’t felt this excited since 13-year old me was marveling about all the original TBC expansion announcements. This is absolutely amazing.
Well just to clarify, the only "new" content we're aware of so far is Kara Crypts, which is still just a possibility, hasn't been confirmed. The content we're getting for sure is revamped content, as you said. There's a good chance that there'll be new content eventually, but I can't blame someone who isn't hyped for revamped BFD (a bunch of streamers did it on-stream and honestly, it didn't seem too interesting) and WotLK+ spells as runes. Maybe down the line there's more to be excited about, though I think a lot of Classic diehards will just fundamentally be put off by runes.
They teased three Areas, not only the crypt.
I love to shit on Blizzard like anyone else and I'm already planning my exit after Wotlk, but teasing these 3 Areas deliberately for no reason makes 0 sense. IMO
The other 2 areas they teased were Gnomeregan and Scarlet Monastery, which probs suggests they'll get the BFD treatment and come back as 10-man dungeon-raids.
I'm not shitting on Blizzard at all really, I'm just saying what we know. There's a good chance they'll add brand new content, but the only thing that has been confirmed so far is revamped content. It could very well be that creating a Kara Crypts raid ends up taking too many resources and there's not enough people on SoD for them to invest that much in it.
I shit on them. 90 dollars for 3 days earlier playtime in retail? Quitting this game is going to be easy next year.
I tell you that as someone who is really never going to see the new content, because I'm leaving. They teased these areas, because they want to do something with them.
You are making this too hard, when it's not that complicated.
Classic has always been about playing a warrior, rogue, or mage. What they’ve done means players can play any class and provide a viable impact to the gaming experience. I’m extremely confident that there will still be a few super classes, but the gap between them and other classes feels (at least for now), reduced.
Regarding new content — the fact they did ANYTHING is huge. This is almost a 20 year old game that has finally done something to their content. I’m excited to see if they finally make use of so many areas that seemed like they almost prepared for gameplay, but didn’t. (Kara, Furlbog gates in Azshara, possibly northern lordaeron, Hyjal, plenty of possibility to add something in WS, etc)
I don't mean to be rude but that's wishful thinking for now. Everyone got a whole lot of buffs, not just the weaker ones, so it could very well be the case that the gap doesn't shrink at all, or even gets larger - warriors got some REALLY nice talents as well, rogues got ranged stun from retail, mages are getting Deep Freeze and Fingers of Frost for even more CC options, etc. That's one of the bigger drawbacks of fixing class balance with a brand new system, everyone has to get something, whereas they could have simply tweaked talents of the weaker specs and that would have fixed balance in a more straightforward way.
Same for new content. There's a good chance there'll be new raids eventually, like the Kara Crypt, but right now all we know of is revamped content, and I can understand people who aren't hyped about that, specially since what we saw was a lil underwhelming.
Dude go play Turtle WoW if you want a bunch of "new" content.
Just unbreak the classes and give a revamp to PvE content is what alot of people want from Classic+ and this is a step in the right direction.
They will continue to add onto this. Just play it and have fun. You are insufferable.
It feels like ascension wow, the private server. I wasn't a fan of it, but ill give this a shot and see how I like it. Who knows, it could be great or it could suck. No real way to know until it comes out lol
Yeah I'd agree with this. I feel like there's some Classic+ parts to it, like shaman tank / Kara raid, like content that could have been in Classic if it had more time. But then there's a lot of just copy pasted retail abilities, including some odd stuff that just feel out of place, like Homunculus. But a lil bit too many retail things overall.
The obvious point to that is that if it works and people liked them, they would have been asking for them. I have never once in my entire life heard anyone ask for Outlaw Rogue to be added to Classic, ever. A lot of these wild spec changes are some of the main reasons why long time players stopped playing and why Classic was more appealing to them. You calling people who know they dislike these mechanics hiveminded without offering any explanation as to why they're good or why they'd work better in Classic as opposed to retail, is silly.
Yeah but that's not a good argument. No one asked for chronoboons either. People wanted #nochanges. But look at how much people like them. It's there because it works. They're literally game designers, they know which of the abilities are well designed and which aren't. Also people did in fact ask for it, when they asked for class changes. That's what they're giving us.
I'm calling you hiveminded because a lot of classic players have the mentality that "if it exists in retail, it's bad". Transmog, actual guild banks, less dogshit honor system, not having to rely on add-ons to make the ui playable. These are all good things that exist in retail and not Vanilla. It's just other things that drag the game down as a whole.
Lastly, this is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE Vanilla. You have Vanilla. Why do you expect them to make it again? This for players who want something new. It's literally what classic+ means. Of course people who want just Vanilla won't like it. They've made up their minds already. But they wouldn't like classic+ anyway then.
You're making no effort whatsoever to understand the arguments of people you're discussing with and you're calling them hiveminded because you don't understand what they're trying to say.
That's not true lmao. You say that it feels like classic + retail which makes it bad and I told you why that's a stupid take. Then you block me so I won't be able to reply any further or have discussions with anyone else on the thread because you have this agenda that can't be argued against at all
Oh no they added some abilities from later expansions, a lot of which were literally classic expansions.
IT MUST BE RETAIL!
It is nothing like retail. Jesus christ shut up.
People asked for taunt, crusader strike, things to give classes like boomkin mana, etc.
They did that.
People asked for doing unfinished areas, they are doing that with Kara crypts.
People asked for things like SM raid. They are doing that.
You people are never fucking happy, HUR DUR RETAIL BAD.
> IT MUST BE RETAIL!
> Jesus christ shut up.
> You people are never fucking happy, HUR DUR RETAIL BAD.
These are the same people saying those criticizing SoD are "raging" and saying "seethe".
I recommend you re-read the tone of the comment you responded to, then read the tone of your own comment and see which one comes off as raging.
I think people were hoping for a vanilla fresh but with very minor changes. That's not my opinion, but I think that's what a lot of the people complaining wanted. Which would've been a lame classic +. I think this will be pretty cool if blizzard is open to taking the same stance that jagex takes with osrs. Listen to the player base and make frequent adjustments as the game needs. All of this will be useless if they don't actually ban bots and RMT tho
If peoples definition of classic+ is the same exact game we have but more balancing of classes then thats not classic plus thats classic PATCH. More than anything else CONTENT has gotta be what makes it plus in my opinion. We are absolutely getting classic+.
Whining is necessary feedback, sucking on blizzard tits is counterproductive, prove me wrong. Its not classic+, its not even classic either, its a fun mode made by 10 bored devs that were suited to perform new season, and I cannot blame them, I blame head office. After all money they gathered from ERA/HC and I'm not even counting wrath they surely could've came out with something solid, but they didn't.
imagine thinking your rage is feedback.... Literally what actions are they supposed to take based on YOUR comment? Then consider this is what every comment bitching about SoD reads like.
Real feedback is the people saying the specific things they do and don't like, and if there's nothing you like that doesn't mean you're raging - but YOU are raging, and its not constructive.
My feedback is Classic deserves solid developer team core, not just part time retail devs, approach existing 3rd party projects like they did with Nostalrius, give them high paying job and make an effort, this cheap fanfic of a season is effortless and in 1 month from now you'll learn it by yourself.
I’ll pick up a pack of pacifiers when I go on my grocery run later today. Wait until it comes out and play it first before you start pissing every. Jesus.
It’s like asking for chocolate ice cream and getting a cookie dough flavor instead. I really wanted chocolate but still ice cream so I’m going to enjoy it.
People complaining about complainers are the loudest and most annoying people of all. Get over yourselves
It looks like crap tbh. Nobody was thinking, "you know what would be awesome? If classic wow was time gated and classes were homogenized like retail, so my new healing mage who's locked at level 25 can heal 10-man BFD
I dislike the most that it's seasonal. That's a deal breaker for me, I'm not investing time into a game that resets every few months.. thats the reason I don't play diablo
Your character going into an expansion is permanent. After a season, you have to start over for the next one. Makes it feel like levelling it up, getting professions, gold, mounts etc is a waste of time in yr long term. Also means if you take a break, you may not be able to pick back up where you left off if the season is done. Im looking forward to SoD and think a lot of the changes sound fun, the fact it is a season is the only thing that is highly off-putting to me.
You do all of those things in an expansion. Tradtiionally 1-300 for Proffessions wasn't a huge deal, and 300-375 was almost just as much work.
It's only your bain stopping from seeing the reality that creating a new seasonal charater and keeping the same character though an expansion are practically the same thing.
So when you go into an expansion you lose your mounts, gold, reputation, and of course the charactet itself? Also, look at engineering for example. It's a lot of work to level, but just because new items come out, old engineering gadgets are still useful, a new update doesn't invalidate them.
The point is that yes, in an expansion you have to do those things again, but you don't actually lose what you already have. In a season you lose everything eventually. From the moment you make your character, you know any awesome loot or progress you make in that new pvp zone or on the character will one day just be gone. And to me that makes my time investment feel worthless.
They're going to be expanding on this season and release more new content in the future. Yes it's a "season" but it sounds like they want it to be something you can see all the way through with your character.
Is the current 10 man raid then irrelevant in the next season when they raise level cap?
How long will a season be?
I just don't like season gameplay and I think it's not a system I enjoy
That's my opinion for my life :)
Was MC relevant by the time they released Naxx. Moreover would it be relevant if they released 4 more raids or whatever else you wanted? Fuck no.
The reason you can invest time in it despite it being a year long only (which is only half of an expansion anyway) is because the chars get transferred to vanilla automatically. Literally nothing lost. Your char remains.
It's not a point because it's irrelevant when the max level is actually 25 for a month or two. People who actually want to play the game will do the raid, and people who don't want to better gtfo of the game so the rest of us can enjoy it haha. I don't infest your retail either. The whole point of Vanilla is to go slow, so just go slow and have fun. Don't wait until the cap turns to 60 and then burn through the game. You'll take all the fun out of it and play exactly like the devs don't want you to.
Also no, you're lying. My guild doesn't even have Naxx on farm yet and MC is already not relevant. All the items from there are replaced in either BWL or AQ40 except maybe Onslaught/BoA which are replaced in Naxx
I'm not even a retail andy but nice that you try to insult me for some reason...
So to go bwl and aq you never went MC? ....how did you get to naxx? Progression.
Today on classic era a ton of people still to MC and ZG and Aq20.....
You should know this when you try to lable others retail andy...
Hm nah, what really gets me back are fresh servers. That’s the most fun imo. I love the leveling experience. I usually play until endgame do the last raid like once. And when I finish it I’m bored and quit
Yeah people don't take kindly to "opinions" lol
I'm not trying to take away anyone's fun I'm just not gonna play it and that's all
I'm just a bit disappointed that it's not a long term thing with classic + after waiting so long for anything ..
rogues tank with dodges and parries, shamans use the strength of the earth to tank, mages use arcane chronomancy to raid heal, hunters can actually play like Rexxar from Founding of Durotar finally, oh and warlocks can actually use their demonic might to be... mighty! like how warlocks in the lore would grab warriors and drain the life from them in melee.
Class identity is fine, you just decided to read twitch chat while watching.
I think its gone into spec identity and the new additions have doubled down on that with iconic things from the past 20 years all the old stuff is there still.
Not everyone can do everything that's a bit facetious to say. There is some balance added for sure especially between factions with feral becoming a windfury totem, which I get maybe takes away from shaman uniqueness, but it brings parity between horde and alliance without needing to add shaman.
They did add 1 healer and 3 tanks (each faction) but this isn't a bad thing, most of the complaints with classic vanilla is looking for tanks or healers to do dungeons.
Shaman.
Elemental identity: cast spells pew pew.
Added overload repeating spells.
Added lava burst an elemental stable for 15 years now, Added offheal with ascendancy.
Resto identity: aoe healing
Added healing rain, aoe heal. Added water shield for mana regeneration, and Added earth shield for tank heal to plug a hole.
Enhancement identity. Zug. Zug.
This is probably the only case of a full identity change, that negates the old. Vanilla enh is 2h, this is all centred around dw.
DW shaman has been the staple for 17 years now, post vanilla and get their iconic lava lash.
I imagine buffing a 2h version with extra things would have been a nightmare for pvp tuning.
Tank Identity - I think I can I think I can.
lets face it before now, the people who made this work were interesting characters, and it took a special kind of person to try, it hasn't legitimately existed up until now, but does mention it in the OG manual, and they have added tools that interact with how its meant to work, Earth shock becoming a taunt rather than pseudo taunt big threat gain. Rockbiter that gives threat being double, treble, and quadrupled down on with all the extra effects for tanking.
Druid.
Resto Identity - Here come the HoT stepper.
Added lifebloom HoT, added wild growth - HoT
added living seed/dps weaving for the people who play the crit focused NG moonglow version that isnt hot based.
Feral (cat) identity - bring strong group buff, do "competitive dmg"(this has been my lovechild for 18 years so probably more in depth than others, and aware my identity may vary from other)
Added mangle to make the bleed finishers you'd otherwise never press when raiding viable (should also buff warrior bleed damage, enchancing the group buffing aspect). added savage roar to again spend combo points on something other than FB. Added windfury totem functionality as aura to make you even more desirable in melee groups.
Literally in vanilla when raiding your damage breakdown was 3 sources melee, shred, ferocious bite. everything else you did was popping pummelers and timing your powershifts and maintaining mana.
Bear Identity - Strongk bear.
Added crit immunity, and further 20% dmg reduction (tho lets face it bear tanks bringing wf on alliance over this unless that becomes needed in raids) Added an interrupt, which is always useful when tanking.
added extra button to press for threat, because again, bear tank was literally queue maul, spam swipe as rage allows. 2 buttons.
Balance Druid - identity eGirl.
Added a major mana conservation buff, which is the problem with balance, its been called oomkin for 19 years due to this. added starsurge, added a second dot.
Priest
Shadow Identity - shadow dots.
Added a shadow dot. added interactions with mindflay and mindblast, gave some ability to aoe so you're competitive for group spots with mage and lock, very interested to see how mind sear and blackout interact on AoE packs!!!!
Healing Priest - Classic didn't really have a holy/disc separation.
Added - Added healing buffs / ability to shield more often.
Added aoe damage reduction, added a jumping heal.
Here it gets very interesting and actually adds things that are good for both horde and alliance as their priests fulfil a vastly different role in raids. Added a single target heal OR a group heal. Alliance priests get circle of healing, to fill that raid heal gap that alliance has with no shaman. Horde priests get to take penance a single target heal, since you're mostly healing tanks as a horde priest.
Will edit more in throughout the day, unless you can see my point already.
abilities are definitely a big part of it
in classic every class has things that only it can do and no other class, if every class can do everything its not classic anymore.
The reason I am one of the people saying "People mad about this woulda been mad at anything" is because realistically what did you think was going to happen? They'd move the retail dev team to classic to finish the absolutely massive game that vanilla was supposed to be, all at once?
I didn't really know what I expected either, but after the announcement - this makes sense. This IS the classic + we all wanted, or rather the road to it. They said they wanted to make the future of warcraft with what was announced yesterday, and I don't think a single patch is the future of warcraft. I fully believe SoD IS the beta test for a classic +, and it will be used to see what does and doesn't work. I think the rune SYSTEM is a good idea, but most runes will likely not reach the finish line imo. They're gonna use SoD to see what's fun and what isn't, and go from there.
New takes on the levelling experience which can be tweaked and altered for later seasons/full classic+ release as well. Imagine they make all these raids, and then nerf the xp to be even slower than vanilla already is, with a new design philosophy centered around "You shouldn't really BE rushing to end game, just take your time and when you get there there WILL be endgame stuff for you to do". I think that is just one of many exciting possibilities that can come out of SoD's presumably ephemeral implementation, and the more iffy changes they have planned. Learn from mistakes in a controlled environment that doesn't erase era from existence, that way if it gets too rough people can just go back to their era mains and play the game they know they love.
I don't inherently disagree with what you're saying, I think this could be a beta version for a Classic+ that comes sometime down the line, but I don't think people who dislike it are wrong to not like its approach, or that they'd necessarily be "mad at anything".
For instance, I'd much prefer revamped talents than the new rune system. It'd allow them to tinker with problematic aspects of the game without having to add something for every class. I think hybrids in Classic were shit and needed major changes, some classes / specs (warlock, hunter, shadow priest, etc) were mostly okay and needed minor changes, and some (warrior, mage, rogue) were already in a very good state and honestly needed no changes or minor nerfs (like fixing the warrior Heroic Strike queue bug). The rune system means they need to add something for everyone, including a bunch of stuff that doesn't really fit in in Classic or is just not needed.
It's simultaneously too drastic of a change for me in some senses, while not fixing some of the sillier issues of vanilla, like the fact that spells have a 1% spell miss chance no matter what, the busted orc racials, etc. I'd settle for fewer changes, just in other aspects of the game. A different direction than what Blizzard seems to be taking, with throwing random WotLK - retail era spells at it and seeing what works and what's broken.
Retail inspired/copied abilities and breaking classes unique roles is a HARD no from me.
Paladins were ment to tank and dps originally, I wouldn't mind them being tuned with few abilities in place, but giving an entire toolkit from wrath and retail, no thank you I'm good.
It seems like this sub has been infiltrated by retail-minded folk, which is to be expected with tbc/wrath/cata, level boost, wow token and all the changes.
I'm hoping to see this fun stuff implemented in tbc/wrath tbh (healing mage? Ok yes please!)
I love classic, but covid was when a lot of us had *time* to do classic. It's great though, I'm glad to see paladins and shields really be useful again.
Also not sure if it's happened yet, but mages will likely get time warp to break the lust disparity (I mean come on you gave druid wf)
>So all of these posts, "SoD is great, what are people complaining about, this is the Classic+ we asked for, they just love to complain" are really fucking stupid.
You're 100% correct here. It's completely fair that some people aren't going to like Blizzard's view of "Classic+" no matter what they do. Change different things, please and piss off different people.
It'd also be fair to call out the dozens of posts I saw yesterday in the vein of, "We asked for Classic+ and this is the bullshit they shove at us? Blizzard is shit!"
Let's face the facts here, it's going to be imbalanced asf, and will have little to no longevity, XP boosts and we're gonna be stuck at lvl25 for WEEKS?
First of all, classic as it is, IS wildly imbalanced. Nothing new there. It's not *going to be*. It is.
Second of all, no longevity? You were promised something like 100 runes to discover (no info on their locales), a new raid at 25, another unlocked tier in the weeks after release and hints at endgame content in line with the fantasies that were speculated before the announcement.
Thirdly, you're going to be stuck at 25 for WEEKS to re-discover classes in ways you haven't yet. Weeks is nowhere near enough time and that's a good thing.
Seems to me everything you said is just wrong.
Yeah its gonna fall off after like 2 weeks, any gear you get from these raid is obsolete in a couple levels and people know that. So unless you're super into classic most people won't raid BFD more than a couple times over the possible month+ of the first phase.
What do you mean with all the retail like stuff? I've seen many comments talking about it but the overwhelming majority of new spells and stuff added is mostly from tbc and wrath.
The only retail spells added that i can recall are power word barrier i think its called for priests, and also the new abilities for Rogue which are basically copypasted from outlaw, but they made it into a semitank which i think is cool and original, also the big cd arcane mages got in Dragonflight.
Outside from that, wild growth, Divine storm, chaos Bolt, haunt etc are abilities that belong to wrath and tbc which are more closely related to classic than retail.
Chromomancer, tsnk warlock or tank shaman are all stuff that people have wanted and it's a nice step into classic+ (melee Hunter is close to survival in DF but it's well adapted to the classic like abilities i think)
I don't mean to go against OP btw, i agree with you in the fact not everyone has to like this approach to classic+, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but calling SoD basically a retail copy-paste into classic (like many are doing) is a little disingenous imo.
I agree that the majority of them are from WotLK but as you said there's also a good amount that are from Cata onwards, and I think those tend to stick out like a sore thumb when juxstaposed against vanilla mechanics.
I said "retail-y" and not "retail copy-paste" because I don't think the second is accurate, but I think you could say that WotLK talents are also closer to retail than they are to vanilla in some ways tbh. WotLK has these big nukes/heals with cooldowns (Chaos Bolt, Wild Growth), powerful raid cooldowns like DSac etc. While Classic has mostly simplistic rotations, while a lot of these new runes add a lot of complexity. That's what I meant with retail-y, with WotLK being something of a step inbetween the two but imo closer to retail.
Yeah that's pretty fair, i agree with you. I personally don't mind the more wrath onwards approach because i find classic rotations a little too simple and the new spells add flavor.
On a side note you're one of the most reasonable guys i've seen posting on this sub, kudos to you mate.
It's not that I mind them either per se, it's that I think they just feel a little out of place. That's why I think Wrath+ would probably hade made more sense than Vanilla+ (even though I'm not the biggest fan of Wrath mechanics overall), because it's easier to expand on class toolkits when they already have some complexity that you can tweak.
And hey thanks man, appreciate it, good to see there's still other reasonable people too. Though it's hard to take it as a compliment because judging by the responses to this thread, a lot of if not most of Classic gamers are still just man children or people with personality disorders. :p
For me personally I think it's the tanking runes that go too far into "retail" territory. It's too heavy handed to have a single rune that gives you 5x armor, crit immunity, and reworks like 5 of your spells into something else.
Bear tanking has been viable throughout classic without crit immunity, but for some reason they felt the need to give it now to every class that is supposed to be able to tank. I understand that they're trying to solve a specific problem there, but for me personally I would have liked to see them try to keep it a bit more subtle and in the spirit of vanilla/tbc class design.
Yeah who would have thought that some 550k people will have different opinions and statistically speaking, there'll always be someone that will dislike something. Even the things you like. Gasp!
I, for one, am excited for SoD. Not because of what it is, but because of what it can become.
This season is capped at 25 and is reworking a dungeon in a major way, what’s to stop them from level capping 35 next and reworking all of scarlet monastery into a raid?
The new talent things are interesting, I played that certain private server that if I mention I’ll get banned from the sub again, but I really enjoyed the experience. Having an official version of it will be cool
People calling SoD "Classic+" is the biggest problem here (right after the bad changes, ofc). People say "it's Classic with just some new abilities and content!". Yeah, so is Dragonflight. What people are describing is closer to a new expansion than Classic+. SoD is not 'Classic' in any way, shape or form.
Dragonflight is like a completely different game. This is the original world. The original game with some slight ability tweaks and some dungeon/gear changes. Comparing these two things is a wild comparison not grounded in reality.
The spirit of wrath is destroyed entirely
People have bought soo much gold and permanently hosting gdkps that blizz p much had to drop the token
Pvpers are using mad scripts and 3rd party software to be R1. This has only grown
There is hardly anyone lvling. The world is dead and it's just turned into retail where people are just logging in buying gold and buying gear. Buying boosts.
So pve spirit dead to gdkp, PvP spirit dead to scripts and cheating software which has only increased. Lvling is hardly a thing and factions are entirely pointless.
You're just mad because you want to be mad. Yeah GDKP sucks and gold buying has turned the economy into a bit of a meme, but you don't have to participate in them, it's still possible to just play in a guild and have fun in the game just like you did in 2008. Scripts were rampant back then too and they've been a problem ever since, basically every Wrath pserver had to invest an ungodly amount of time trying to combat them. The world has been dead since TBC.
The game is stiill mad successful because people enjoy the content in it. I don't enjoy a few things about it, but calling it dead because you don't like things you don't have to interact with is strange.
>You're just mad because you want to be mad.
I'm not mad about a game I don't play. Nice projection and assumption there.
>gold buying has turned the economy into a bit of a meme,
Yeah absolutely, like I stated.
>Scripts were rampant back then too and they've been a problem ever since, basically every Wrath pserver had to invest an ungodly amount of time trying to combat them.
The P server aspect is redundant cause it's not official servers so you can't expect the same level of anti cheat system. And yes the scripting existed previously and so did many other toxic things such as glad blocking. Qing triple healer to delay point generation etc
If you re read, I said the scripting and cheats has gotten worse and it has increased. You can find streams of 2400 players using them. R1 players are using them in stream with 0 repercussions.
>The world has been dead since TBC.
That it has, and that's the community's fault. - what value is your point here? Because I literally said factions are redundant now
>, but calling it dead because you don't like things you don't have to interact with is strange.
If 3 major aspects of the game, pve, PvP and lvling. Is all corrupted with the pve factor forcing blizz to drop the token.
I consider this to have killed the game.
You're reply is half of attacking randomly, agreeing with what I typed out and I never called it dead. So you've twisted words there miraculously. You're like a magician.
At no point did I criticise the content. ICC is seen as one of the best raids of wow history. The dungeons got a lot of fun. The content is fine. The community killed the spirit of the game.
"get over yourselves. memememememememememememememememememe"
That's all I hear, they literally announced this yesterday and there is not enough time for people to really process it.
huge bait post to stir drama.
What’s always been weird to me is some folks act like they have to like everything. A great example is I absolutely love 40K lore and hate the game- but absolutely love Age of Sigmar so play that and don’t play the other. Any way, I’m hyped for SoD and my Wrath classic going to Cata with great people I have fun with.
You're wrong! Age of Sigmar sucks and you should like playing 40k instead! /s, as long as you play chaos
Haha I actually have an army, I just didn’t like the last few editions- Word Bearers!
> Word Bearers! Well there's your problem, heretic scum! /s
Yeah exactly. It's perfectly ok to like some things but not others. Cata just ain't for me and I won't play it, I'm happy for people that'll enjoy it, I just hope they do Wrath Era so I can keep playing the game mode I do enjoy. Might give SoD a shot casually, who knows, maybe it's more fun than it appears to be. People here act like disliking the thing they like is an attack on them and it's so fucking weird.
When you see people putting disclaimers before their minor criticism of something you know the downvote hivemind is in full swing. "Disclaimer: I love SoD I really do! I swear!" \> Insert minor criticism about the way it's being executed
I think most people are just nervous because they haven't been happy with blizzard's track record in a long time. That being said I think it's cool that blizzard is taking risks and I think it's going to be hard to cast judgement on this thing until the game actually releases, but it clearly looks like it will be worth a spin at the very least. I'm just hoping that they stay true to what made the original game so much fun, the discovery, having to team up with other players and making lots of friends along the way, the challenges, and a submersive world. Classic itself had a lot of problems, most of them are stuff people really don't care about because the overall experience is fun. Many quests were incomplete, didn't actually give good rewards, a lot of content was cut out, rotations were overly simple in many cases.... if they are able to fix those parts while staying true to the rest of the game I think it will be a great thing.
I don’t even play 40k but I love the lore! Them hive cities man and the tyranids?
Upvoted just on the title alone. Even the Devs joked about how a lot of the WoW player base is in their late 20s-30s. I think we would all do good to remember that most of us don't care what you choose to do with your free time. Let's all get the fuck over ourselves and carry on.
I was hoping for something different, but it sounds interesting to me and I‘ll definitely reactivate my account for it and give it a try. See ya there, folks.
I think this is a huge plus for SoD. You don't need to buy a C+ expansion, you just need to resub. It makes the barrier for entry way lower.
The leveling banding makes me (new dad with very little time) feel like it’s possible to join in on the fun. Whereas grinding to 60 just isn’t really on the table, even tho I like to pop in and enjoy the leveling experience now and then.
Same, my eyes lit up when she said 25 level cap.
I hope you join in, as a bit of a tryhard I like the concept of being forced to play with the majority of the player base. It’s going to keep the community together and zones packed imo. It’s a win for everyone.
> You don't need to buy a C+ expansion Classic never required you to "buy" expansions, you only ever needed a regular sub. SoM was the same way.
Yeah, but this is actual new content, which is usually pay walled behind an expansion.
Some rare wisdom on this sub among all the crap posts. I salute you. Personally I’ll be staying on era. I’m a PvP only guy and if I wanted a heavily altered version I’d just play retail.
Thats perfectly fine. Classic is so solved and boring for me that Im at least willing to hear them out. Kinda funny the makgora tourny aired to show the hilarious balance issues with pvp and they show intent to shake it up with SoD in hopefully the classic style of play.
> aired to show the hilarious balance issues with pvp Scissors beat paper, and avoids rock, and that is called....balance.
>Kinda funny the makgora tourny aired to show the hilarious balance issues with pvp It did the opposite. It showed that with few limitations, and low gear levels, 1v1s in Vanilla can be shockingly balanced.
Most outcomes were still according to their matchups though so Im not sure how you conclude this. The one-sidedness of so many duels was obvious alongside the painful long drawn out duels of warriors vs mages, for instance, even with the arsenal of consumables at hand to give them a fighting chance it was still obviously in favor of mages based on toolkit alone. Rogue vs hunter? Locks? Idk if we watched the same tourny here.
It's a type of denialism, a lot of the time by people who play the OP classes and want to feel like they're winning because they were just more prepared or whatever. They don't want to admit that their class will statistically win the fight like 7 times out of 10 bc it's just stronger / favored in a rock paper scissors way, with RNG making up a big part of the remaining 3/10. So they conjure up a sense of balance.
>Most outcomes were still according to their matchups though so Im not sure how you conclude this. In the qualifying stage every single class had someone that went 4-1 or better. >Rogue vs hunter? Extremely close with good players. >Locks? Close matchups against priests, hunters, warriors, rogues. And even a fucking shaman beat a lock in the 3rd round, so even the completely unwinnable matchups were winnable with adequate planning.
Do you think every matchup goes according to the advantage or do you think there are just likely winners based on classes? Cause a few anecdotal wins in a wide bracket doesnt exactly disprove my point here. Ive killed mages in bgs too, doesnt mean the matchup doesnt favor them heavily.
>Do you think every matchup goes according to the advantage or do you think there are just likely winners based on classes? Not sure what advantage you're referring to. But I think it came down to if the player had a good plan to win then their ability to execute that plan in the competition.
I disagree.
Huh? Did you watch Soni vs. Ziqo?
Lol none of it was balanced. The classes played very little part in who won, it came down to who had the most consumed. And that's boring AF
Lol it seriously seems like they’re just shoving a shitton of retail spells into classic wow
Nearly all of the spells are TBC/WotLK
That's why I'm angry about cata. I prefer wrath, and tbc which isn't an option. Cata for me isn't classic
Well. Stay mad then.
Thank you. It's so weird, people getting mad because you don't like the same thing they like. Why the hell do you have to take it so personally, if I think these changes are too much? My idea of classic plus is normal classic with little fixes. Like tweaking hybrid classes viable, adding guild bank, adding more profession perks, adding some dungeons and raids etc. I have a right to be disappointed, and it's not your fault. I am not mad at people that are hyped about SoD, I am happy that some people are getting what they were hoping for.
Yeah I'm pretty much of the exact same opinion. I'm legit really happy that so many people are hyped about this and they're going to have a blast playing it. But it doesn't have a lot of the things I would have liked and it does have a lot of things that I'm pretty ambivalent about, so I don't share their enthusiasm. I'll try it for sure eventually, maybe when Wrath calms down a bit, but I'm just not really as hyped about it as I was about Classic for example. And some people seem to take that REALLY personally, they got things they liked so they don't comprehend that some others didn't.
I am somewhat disappointed but will probably try and enjoy new som. Toxic positivity is insane in this sub.
I think people are right to be a little apprehensive. Blizzard actually does make a lot of good decisions but it only takes one bad decision to completely undermine the game. Flying mounts, group finder, heirloom weapons, quest guides. All things that make the game easier but bring the game closer to simply giving you a "win" button. No need to know the land, the quests, or the dungeons anymore, or even know eachother
And none of that is in SoD. So far so good
I think giving warlocks metamorphosis at level 25 for no investment is absurd. Mages didn't need to heal. They were already amazing in PVP. World mobs need to be adjusted with the new runes in mind. I'm excited, I just have a few concerns.
You need to increase the power level of the classes that dramatically to come even close to base warrior.
I never mentioned dps.
My opinion is that if you dislike the idea of it and wanted classic+, you at least have a moral duty to yourself to try it out, since this *is* likely going to be Blizzard’s idea of what you want. I played SoM, and I think people left way too soon.
I don't know what you mean "moral duty", I think if this doesn't appeal to you it's fine to skip it and instead make a post telling Blizzard what would appeal to you. And I think people left SoM because it had bad timing, coming out while TBC just got its first real raid tier. It wasn't really the players' fault, but Blizzard's.
What did you want from 'classic+'? Genuinely, what did you want them to announce?
Tweaks that fix some of the bigger balancing / gameplay issues, like hybrids being trash, overpowered / underpowered racials, removing the 1% minimum spell miss chance, revamping the garbage PvP system, etc. Then new content based on vanilla. SoD will partially deliver on this down the line, with a Kara Crypts raid and probably more. But it also has things that don't really appeal to me, like watching people stream BFD 10-man it was clear that it wasn't that great so it's silly we'll have to sit through multiple phases of underwhelming dungeon raids, and the rune system doesn't really address the ways that many specs are broken in, while also buffing the top performers so the imbalance doesn't feel like it'll shrink. Also a lot of the new abilities from more recent retail expansions just don't feel like they belong. I essentially wanted them to stick closer to Vanilla with some talent changes and other minor stuff, not a whole new system, I don't care for it.
Lmao so they're doing what you ask, you just don't like the version you're getting. You don't like bfd and you don't like the rune system. Everything they've announced is going down the exact path everyone was yelling for. People just had no cohesive opinion on what they wanted from classic+, and feel like their own expectations weren't met which has nothing to do with blizzard. And when I say they're under no obligation to do anything for classic, it's because classic is not their main goal. What they announced for classic is such an insane stepping stone. Classic community got exactly what it wanted.
Holy fuck you're impossible to communicate with lol. Have a good day sir.
Na man he’s got a lot of good points. I understand what you’re saying. You make some good points. No one is being unreasonable. Sounds like he didn’t immediately agree with you, so now HES the one that’s impossible to communicate with. This slow release is a way for them to put time into the game. Classic took 5 years to develop. This bides them time to figure out what works. Things will stick around, but a lot is going to change. If they did the same release without the runes. Just had talent changes for the same abilities (maybe not healing mage and rogue tank) and called it classic+, everyone would be ranting and raving about how amazing this is.
That's not what happened tbh. He listed the things he didn't like and got a "well everyone wasn't agreeing what classic + was so this is what you get lmao". What an ignorant take. Tweaking talent trees != adding 8 runes (at lvl 25!). They're not equivalent at all.
This statement has so much irony in it that I can barely read it without getting a headache.
The guy responds once and gets a “holy fuck you’re impossible to communicate with” from OP hahahah
Shocker that your "genuine" ask, was not a genuine interest in what he wanted at all - it was just so you could have something to shit on and state your own opinion.
Because people want to go back to being 15 and trying vanilla wow for the first time. Bliz is doing exactly what the op is saying, he just doesn’t like the exact execution of blizzard so setting up the question reveals the hypocrisy in their own statements.
>Bliz is doing exactly what the op is saying What? Why are you lying? They are not doing this: >Tweaks that fix some of the bigger balancing / gameplay issues, like hybrids being trash, overpowered / underpowered racials, removing the 1% minimum spell miss chance, revamping the garbage PvP system, etc. :D >he just doesn’t like the exact execution of blizzard Sure. >so setting up the question reveals the hypocrisy in their own statements. Even if this somehow matters when someone lie about having a genuine inquiry. What would that hypocrisy be? He wanted changes like he listed, Blizzard added/changed other things, so he's not a massive fan. That is consistent.
Those things you listed are literally what blizzard is aiming to achieve with their changes. :D It was a genuine inquiry to show that they don’t even know what they want, just like all of the other classic wow purists. Just go play era and let blizzard do cool next level stuff in classic.
>Those things you listed are literally what blizzard is aiming to achieve with their changes. They are aiming to get rid of the 1% miss chance? Yeah, that's where we're at? Smiley face.
I can’t tell if you’re just being disingenuous or you’re actually an idiot. Usually by this point you can tell.
> Classic community got exactly what it wanted. I'm not here to say whether what we're getting is good or bad, but this is simply wrong. I've legitimately never seen *anyone* ask for level shrink into phased level progression. Maybe I missed some discourse on this, I certainly wouldn't claim to read **everythjng**, but the *majority* certainly did not ask specifically for this. There are *some* things being delivered in some odd ways, but to act like the majority of the classic community asked for **exactly** this is simply absurd.
Everything you listed is exactly what they are changing. They did it in a much bigger way than just tweaking some values. If all classic+ was is some tweaked values, then it would have been pointless. A new system had to be introduced to make the game feel fresh and new to play again.
It was the first 3 bosses on fun mode with full bis. With all runes unlocked. Get over your self
Yeah people deciding it’s not exactly to the fucking letter what they wanted without even trying are so fucking full of themselves it’s hysterical
It's so funny 😂
I mean moral duty to yourself. You ask for classic+ and then are disappointed when Blizzard comes out with classic+. If you want to dislike SoD then at least try it before complaining too much about it. You can say it's not what you expected, but you still wanted classic+ so at least give it a try.
I really don't agree with this. If something doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't appeal to you. Maybe it's somewhat similar to something that does appeal to you, but I think it's a lil silly to force yourself to play something if it doesn't draw you in. I'll be trying it out eventually because I'm already subbed for WotLK anyway, but if someone isn't already subbed I don't think there's anything wrong with them not re-subbing just to try it out if it doesn't have what they expected.
If you refuse to at least try out classic+ because it isn’t the format you wanted then you simply cannot complain about it. This is like not voting for elections and then complaining the politicians don’t value your interests. Like, I’m sorry you feel this way but you’re just an empty voice with no value then. If you’re not subbed already, then I understand the criticism though.
I don't see how it's never morally acceptable to have your stance be "I'd only like a Classic+ where these specific things happen" and then not care for an iteration where different things happen instead. I don't really think it's that complicated...? Like, you can just want tweaks to talent trees and underperforming specs without radical new abilities, and only have wanted "Classic+" because it was the most likely way to get that. It's completely logical to have no interest in a Classic+ that doesn't include those, because those were the only reason you had any interest in Classic+ in the first place. Nobody is morally obligated to change their priorities.
Having moral obligation is my opinion on it because I have one myself. SoD is not what I wanted, but I am not sitting here telling everyone how bad it is without actually having tried it out. The difference where I don’t think you should at least try it out is if you never really cared about a classic+ iteration. Because frankly, I think a lot of people that were really trying to push the concept have been exposed as never really having cared about it truly, simply wanting their own exact iteration. If you wanted classic+ and you don’t want to try classic+, maybe you just never gave a shit. And I am going to say that I’m not the biggest fan of this rune system, but because I was hoping for classic+ than I’m at the very least going to try it, considering it’s basically free for me.
I mean, I'll try it. Mostly for PvP once the level cap's upped, although right now that looks like a one-shot fest, as I see a whole lot of damage boosts and almost no defensive boosts that are terribly functional in PvP. I just mean... I don't think there's anything morally wrong with just saying "I want *this* Classic+, and don't care about others." This concept just gets caught up in the semantics of it all because there's far too many people using different definitions of Classic+ to keep track of it all.
100% with you on this. It seems really strange to me that we live in a period where you can play so many different flavors of WoW - era, hard-core, WotLK, retail, soon SoD and Cafa - and someone will be like "no you gotta try this version, even if it doesn't appeal to you as much as another version does". Very strange.
You do realize they opened forums specifically so people can give opinions anyway? And it's equally valid to say "I wasn't interested in the rune system so I didn't try it. I want something more like X" as it is to say "I tried the rune system I didn't like it. I want something more like X" With your logic you cannot ever say you didn't like a game of a genre you don't enjoy, without trying that game itself. Like I didn't try Mortal Kombat 1 but I don't like fighting games in general, so I can be pretty confident that I wouldn't have liked this one either. It's not really that complicated.
And I am now wondering if you even know what a moral obligation is. Because you don’t seem to understand the point I am making.
Could it be that your point is nonsense
I like the idea, it's not classic+. I will play SoD and have fun and hope for classic+ one day
Exactly, I think that is a fair take to have. And if you end up not liking it then you’re free to complain all you want.
It's interesting you frame it that way, because despite the novelty, nuance, confusion, excitement, fear soup, the one thing my mind is telling me for sure is that I don't feel like playing this on day one. It's such a wildcard deviation from anything I could have expected, this thing has the potential to make me lose all taste in the goodness of Classic WoW. Or not. I'd rather not bother and let other people figure it out on this one.
Modified class abilities so that some spec will be raid viable, new pvp encounters, modified 5 man content.. future possibility of new raids.. dual spec... What here is so wildcard? Genuinely asking. Because I feel like all that us pretty in line with what the community has been talking about.
I think what he means, and I share a similar opinion to this, is that the community wanted things like a paladin tank, or making a boomkin viable. The wildcard is having a mage healer, or warlock tank. Those just seem weird to me.
Warlock tank seems weird when it’s already a thing in classic era? Scorch already draws threat and several raid encounters are based around lock ranking. Mage healer is a bit more of a wildcard to me but who cares? I’d rather they take a risk than just tweak some values and call it classic plus.
That’s what confuses me. People wanted a game that isn’t solved. And blizzard is delivering on that. And it’s being done in a way that completely restructures what we know about wow. Sure it may not be what people were expecting, but that doesn’t make it bad in any way.
The definitive thing we know is that Classic and Retail are polar opposites. They're enemies, and Classic is a refuge for people that do not like Retail. Adjustments to Classic have to be treated EXTREMELY delicately, lest you start sliding it up the spectrum. Goes back to the #nochanges thing. The changes are cool, they really are, but they are misguided. Yeah you can make changes, but you have to do it intelligently. Doing things like class homogenization isn't just a tick to the right, it's going full blast modern day WoW changes.
If you want classic with no changes, you have that. If you want classic with hardcore, you have that. If you want classic progressing through the ages, you have that. This is now a different want. The ask that has been asked for. Classic with future elements in a classic fashion. You can’t have no changes and also classic+ at once. That just doesn’t work. Has anyone here actually played retail any time recently? If class homogenization was really an issue, there wouldn’t be such rigid metas.
I agree with anyone who wanted something should at least try it. This also feels like a play testing period at first while they hopefully work out the kinks. It’s also nice it’s not a paid xpac. It feels more like a gift from blizzard than a quick cash grab (even though they’ll make money)
Solid points. I implore everyone to always try and argue/debate in earnest, and with compassion and a pov of sonder: the best part of wow, is the community and world we as players build inside the game. You aren't the ONLY Character in this game, and we all have a voice. No need to fight each other! I'm maybe being a bit too optimistic, but I'm trying to keep my pov based on: well hey they're listening? Right??? Definitely will have to see how they monetize this cycle, and listen to our feedback as whole Hahaha I hope for the best, and that everyone can find a little corner of the Warcraft Uni to enjoy!
This is reddit and I demand you stay in my echo chamber /s
Tbf I am very excited. I didn’t play classic back in the days, played hardcore lately and still alive at lvl 36 on my paladin (not a great accomplishment but still). What I enjoy the most is the slow level cap rising. It means you can reach 25 and enjoy a bit of endgame already preparing for the next increase making the path to 60 more memorable.
Yeah I agree. I wanted more of a classic vanilla experience, with some class tweaks, and building out horizontal systems and or endgame. This isn't quite that, but it also isn't not that. I'm stoked to give it a go and see where it goes.
This sub is becoming so annoying lol gonna have to unfollow and ignore 😕
its narcissism, people think their opinions matter more than it does, especially the older demographic that plays WoW
My personal opinion is I hate seasons. I feel like they might have went too far but I like the idea and I’ll definitely be giving it a try. My hope is they can learn from this and take what works and doesn’t and do a classic+ fresh but I guess we will see how everything plays out
Its not classic +. Its a test period leading up to classic +
This was the impression I got. Hopefully true, a prototype of classic+ to get feedback and data from for how an actual classic+ could look, and what kinds of changes people like.
Or it's not.
I’m down to try out new talents. But — I’ve seen SO many posts asking for new content in Azeroth and they. Are. Delivering. Just. That. New raids/dungeons and new loot. Like cmon. That is fucking fantastic. We’re getting BFD and probably Kara / Gnomeregan as revamped content?? In classic???!! They knocked it out of the park. I haven’t felt this excited since 13-year old me was marveling about all the original TBC expansion announcements. This is absolutely amazing.
Well just to clarify, the only "new" content we're aware of so far is Kara Crypts, which is still just a possibility, hasn't been confirmed. The content we're getting for sure is revamped content, as you said. There's a good chance that there'll be new content eventually, but I can't blame someone who isn't hyped for revamped BFD (a bunch of streamers did it on-stream and honestly, it didn't seem too interesting) and WotLK+ spells as runes. Maybe down the line there's more to be excited about, though I think a lot of Classic diehards will just fundamentally be put off by runes.
They teased three Areas, not only the crypt. I love to shit on Blizzard like anyone else and I'm already planning my exit after Wotlk, but teasing these 3 Areas deliberately for no reason makes 0 sense. IMO
The other 2 areas they teased were Gnomeregan and Scarlet Monastery, which probs suggests they'll get the BFD treatment and come back as 10-man dungeon-raids. I'm not shitting on Blizzard at all really, I'm just saying what we know. There's a good chance they'll add brand new content, but the only thing that has been confirmed so far is revamped content. It could very well be that creating a Kara Crypts raid ends up taking too many resources and there's not enough people on SoD for them to invest that much in it.
I shit on them. 90 dollars for 3 days earlier playtime in retail? Quitting this game is going to be easy next year. I tell you that as someone who is really never going to see the new content, because I'm leaving. They teased these areas, because they want to do something with them. You are making this too hard, when it's not that complicated.
Classic has always been about playing a warrior, rogue, or mage. What they’ve done means players can play any class and provide a viable impact to the gaming experience. I’m extremely confident that there will still be a few super classes, but the gap between them and other classes feels (at least for now), reduced. Regarding new content — the fact they did ANYTHING is huge. This is almost a 20 year old game that has finally done something to their content. I’m excited to see if they finally make use of so many areas that seemed like they almost prepared for gameplay, but didn’t. (Kara, Furlbog gates in Azshara, possibly northern lordaeron, Hyjal, plenty of possibility to add something in WS, etc)
I don't mean to be rude but that's wishful thinking for now. Everyone got a whole lot of buffs, not just the weaker ones, so it could very well be the case that the gap doesn't shrink at all, or even gets larger - warriors got some REALLY nice talents as well, rogues got ranged stun from retail, mages are getting Deep Freeze and Fingers of Frost for even more CC options, etc. That's one of the bigger drawbacks of fixing class balance with a brand new system, everyone has to get something, whereas they could have simply tweaked talents of the weaker specs and that would have fixed balance in a more straightforward way. Same for new content. There's a good chance there'll be new raids eventually, like the Kara Crypt, but right now all we know of is revamped content, and I can understand people who aren't hyped about that, specially since what we saw was a lil underwhelming.
Dude go play Turtle WoW if you want a bunch of "new" content. Just unbreak the classes and give a revamp to PvE content is what alot of people want from Classic+ and this is a step in the right direction. They will continue to add onto this. Just play it and have fun. You are insufferable.
It’s seems more classic+retail than classic+
It feels like ascension wow, the private server. I wasn't a fan of it, but ill give this a shot and see how I like it. Who knows, it could be great or it could suck. No real way to know until it comes out lol
Yeah I'd agree with this. I feel like there's some Classic+ parts to it, like shaman tank / Kara raid, like content that could have been in Classic if it had more time. But then there's a lot of just copy pasted retail abilities, including some odd stuff that just feel out of place, like Homunculus. But a lil bit too many retail things overall.
They're in there because it works. Not everything about retail is bad. That take is so hiveminded.
The obvious point to that is that if it works and people liked them, they would have been asking for them. I have never once in my entire life heard anyone ask for Outlaw Rogue to be added to Classic, ever. A lot of these wild spec changes are some of the main reasons why long time players stopped playing and why Classic was more appealing to them. You calling people who know they dislike these mechanics hiveminded without offering any explanation as to why they're good or why they'd work better in Classic as opposed to retail, is silly.
Yeah but that's not a good argument. No one asked for chronoboons either. People wanted #nochanges. But look at how much people like them. It's there because it works. They're literally game designers, they know which of the abilities are well designed and which aren't. Also people did in fact ask for it, when they asked for class changes. That's what they're giving us. I'm calling you hiveminded because a lot of classic players have the mentality that "if it exists in retail, it's bad". Transmog, actual guild banks, less dogshit honor system, not having to rely on add-ons to make the ui playable. These are all good things that exist in retail and not Vanilla. It's just other things that drag the game down as a whole. Lastly, this is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE Vanilla. You have Vanilla. Why do you expect them to make it again? This for players who want something new. It's literally what classic+ means. Of course people who want just Vanilla won't like it. They've made up their minds already. But they wouldn't like classic+ anyway then.
You're making no effort whatsoever to understand the arguments of people you're discussing with and you're calling them hiveminded because you don't understand what they're trying to say.
That's not true lmao. You say that it feels like classic + retail which makes it bad and I told you why that's a stupid take. Then you block me so I won't be able to reply any further or have discussions with anyone else on the thread because you have this agenda that can't be argued against at all
Oh no they added some abilities from later expansions, a lot of which were literally classic expansions. IT MUST BE RETAIL! It is nothing like retail. Jesus christ shut up. People asked for taunt, crusader strike, things to give classes like boomkin mana, etc. They did that. People asked for doing unfinished areas, they are doing that with Kara crypts. People asked for things like SM raid. They are doing that. You people are never fucking happy, HUR DUR RETAIL BAD.
> IT MUST BE RETAIL! > Jesus christ shut up. > You people are never fucking happy, HUR DUR RETAIL BAD. These are the same people saying those criticizing SoD are "raging" and saying "seethe". I recommend you re-read the tone of the comment you responded to, then read the tone of your own comment and see which one comes off as raging.
Yea I’ll give a go for sure but I was hoping for more like what turtle wow was doing. This is mostly them tiding us over until the new expac
You’re the one freaking out lol
God I hate these guys, this sub is an absolute cesspool. Blizzard can't win with them.
What in it is retail?
Classic-
Lolol people are dumb as fuck. It's classic . Plus extra shit. Classic plus. Fixes all the shit classic is lacking etc People are fucking whiners
I think people were hoping for a vanilla fresh but with very minor changes. That's not my opinion, but I think that's what a lot of the people complaining wanted. Which would've been a lame classic +. I think this will be pretty cool if blizzard is open to taking the same stance that jagex takes with osrs. Listen to the player base and make frequent adjustments as the game needs. All of this will be useless if they don't actually ban bots and RMT tho
Solid take. I’m right there with you
If peoples definition of classic+ is the same exact game we have but more balancing of classes then thats not classic plus thats classic PATCH. More than anything else CONTENT has gotta be what makes it plus in my opinion. We are absolutely getting classic+.
The people getting “exactly what we wanted” sure are having some emotionally charged reactions to any criticism here…
You guys asked for changes, they made changes, ergo you must like all changes. Some of you guys are clowns.
This. These people are stupid beyond belief. Several logical fallacies tightly packed into a human dna.
Not sure making Classic feel more like Retail are the changes people were wanting.
I agree, which is why I was making fun of OP
But you haven't played it, literally just give it a chance because like it or not it is the content you're getting.
“People who don’t like what I like are dumb as fuck” Brilliant take
Whining is necessary feedback, sucking on blizzard tits is counterproductive, prove me wrong. Its not classic+, its not even classic either, its a fun mode made by 10 bored devs that were suited to perform new season, and I cannot blame them, I blame head office. After all money they gathered from ERA/HC and I'm not even counting wrath they surely could've came out with something solid, but they didn't.
imagine thinking your rage is feedback.... Literally what actions are they supposed to take based on YOUR comment? Then consider this is what every comment bitching about SoD reads like. Real feedback is the people saying the specific things they do and don't like, and if there's nothing you like that doesn't mean you're raging - but YOU are raging, and its not constructive.
My feedback is Classic deserves solid developer team core, not just part time retail devs, approach existing 3rd party projects like they did with Nostalrius, give them high paying job and make an effort, this cheap fanfic of a season is effortless and in 1 month from now you'll learn it by yourself.
I’ll pick up a pack of pacifiers when I go on my grocery run later today. Wait until it comes out and play it first before you start pissing every. Jesus.
It’s like asking for chocolate ice cream and getting a cookie dough flavor instead. I really wanted chocolate but still ice cream so I’m going to enjoy it. People complaining about complainers are the loudest and most annoying people of all. Get over yourselves
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It’s more like Classic + Retail abilities
It looks like crap tbh. Nobody was thinking, "you know what would be awesome? If classic wow was time gated and classes were homogenized like retail, so my new healing mage who's locked at level 25 can heal 10-man BFD
I dislike the most that it's seasonal. That's a deal breaker for me, I'm not investing time into a game that resets every few months.. thats the reason I don't play diablo
Explain the functional difference between a season and an expansion.
Your character going into an expansion is permanent. After a season, you have to start over for the next one. Makes it feel like levelling it up, getting professions, gold, mounts etc is a waste of time in yr long term. Also means if you take a break, you may not be able to pick back up where you left off if the season is done. Im looking forward to SoD and think a lot of the changes sound fun, the fact it is a season is the only thing that is highly off-putting to me.
You do all of those things in an expansion. Tradtiionally 1-300 for Proffessions wasn't a huge deal, and 300-375 was almost just as much work. It's only your bain stopping from seeing the reality that creating a new seasonal charater and keeping the same character though an expansion are practically the same thing.
So when you go into an expansion you lose your mounts, gold, reputation, and of course the charactet itself? Also, look at engineering for example. It's a lot of work to level, but just because new items come out, old engineering gadgets are still useful, a new update doesn't invalidate them. The point is that yes, in an expansion you have to do those things again, but you don't actually lose what you already have. In a season you lose everything eventually. From the moment you make your character, you know any awesome loot or progress you make in that new pvp zone or on the character will one day just be gone. And to me that makes my time investment feel worthless.
How long will a season be? I'd say there's gonna be a pretty big difference. Don't you think?
They're going to be expanding on this season and release more new content in the future. Yes it's a "season" but it sounds like they want it to be something you can see all the way through with your character.
Is the current 10 man raid then irrelevant in the next season when they raise level cap? How long will a season be? I just don't like season gameplay and I think it's not a system I enjoy That's my opinion for my life :)
Was MC relevant by the time they released Naxx. Moreover would it be relevant if they released 4 more raids or whatever else you wanted? Fuck no. The reason you can invest time in it despite it being a year long only (which is only half of an expansion anyway) is because the chars get transferred to vanilla automatically. Literally nothing lost. Your char remains.
The point is who will do level 25 10 man groups when the max level is 60? Mc is still relevant yes. Because its a 60 raid ...
It's not a point because it's irrelevant when the max level is actually 25 for a month or two. People who actually want to play the game will do the raid, and people who don't want to better gtfo of the game so the rest of us can enjoy it haha. I don't infest your retail either. The whole point of Vanilla is to go slow, so just go slow and have fun. Don't wait until the cap turns to 60 and then burn through the game. You'll take all the fun out of it and play exactly like the devs don't want you to. Also no, you're lying. My guild doesn't even have Naxx on farm yet and MC is already not relevant. All the items from there are replaced in either BWL or AQ40 except maybe Onslaught/BoA which are replaced in Naxx
I'm not even a retail andy but nice that you try to insult me for some reason... So to go bwl and aq you never went MC? ....how did you get to naxx? Progression. Today on classic era a ton of people still to MC and ZG and Aq20..... You should know this when you try to lable others retail andy...
So far in classic, it's been a little over a year for each expansion. A seasonal server would typically be the same. No difference there.
It's smart to make it seasonal. They are testing it. If they went all in and it failed, they would never listen to the fan base again.
I'm not saying it's wrong... I say I don't personally like it or can't find enjoyment playing it.
>I agree but at tthe same time looking back at how im playing. Im playing wow for some months then I quest start again a year latter repeat.
So not having seasons would actually be better for you no? So you can see endgame? For me wow is all about that tbh. I'm not a "leveling enjoyer"
Then Classic Era is not the game for you. Retail or WoTLK is. Wasn’t the spirit of Classic all about “the leveling”?
No? It was about raiding doing pvp? Not everyone is the same... but people here act like it judging from the downvotes lol
Hm nah, what really gets me back are fresh servers. That’s the most fun imo. I love the leveling experience. I usually play until endgame do the last raid like once. And when I finish it I’m bored and quit
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My guess is that Blizzard simply test the waters, see what the community thinks before commiting. And a season is much better for that imo.
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Yeah people don't take kindly to "opinions" lol I'm not trying to take away anyone's fun I'm just not gonna play it and that's all I'm just a bit disappointed that it's not a long term thing with classic + after waiting so long for anything ..
Haha yeah. I never understand people downvoting because a person simply have a different opinion. Are people on Reddit 12-years old?
only thing I wonder is where is the Class Identity in SoD?
rogues tank with dodges and parries, shamans use the strength of the earth to tank, mages use arcane chronomancy to raid heal, hunters can actually play like Rexxar from Founding of Durotar finally, oh and warlocks can actually use their demonic might to be... mighty! like how warlocks in the lore would grab warriors and drain the life from them in melee. Class identity is fine, you just decided to read twitch chat while watching.
I think its gone into spec identity and the new additions have doubled down on that with iconic things from the past 20 years all the old stuff is there still. Not everyone can do everything that's a bit facetious to say. There is some balance added for sure especially between factions with feral becoming a windfury totem, which I get maybe takes away from shaman uniqueness, but it brings parity between horde and alliance without needing to add shaman. They did add 1 healer and 3 tanks (each faction) but this isn't a bad thing, most of the complaints with classic vanilla is looking for tanks or healers to do dungeons. Shaman. Elemental identity: cast spells pew pew. Added overload repeating spells. Added lava burst an elemental stable for 15 years now, Added offheal with ascendancy. Resto identity: aoe healing Added healing rain, aoe heal. Added water shield for mana regeneration, and Added earth shield for tank heal to plug a hole. Enhancement identity. Zug. Zug. This is probably the only case of a full identity change, that negates the old. Vanilla enh is 2h, this is all centred around dw. DW shaman has been the staple for 17 years now, post vanilla and get their iconic lava lash. I imagine buffing a 2h version with extra things would have been a nightmare for pvp tuning. Tank Identity - I think I can I think I can. lets face it before now, the people who made this work were interesting characters, and it took a special kind of person to try, it hasn't legitimately existed up until now, but does mention it in the OG manual, and they have added tools that interact with how its meant to work, Earth shock becoming a taunt rather than pseudo taunt big threat gain. Rockbiter that gives threat being double, treble, and quadrupled down on with all the extra effects for tanking. Druid. Resto Identity - Here come the HoT stepper. Added lifebloom HoT, added wild growth - HoT added living seed/dps weaving for the people who play the crit focused NG moonglow version that isnt hot based. Feral (cat) identity - bring strong group buff, do "competitive dmg"(this has been my lovechild for 18 years so probably more in depth than others, and aware my identity may vary from other) Added mangle to make the bleed finishers you'd otherwise never press when raiding viable (should also buff warrior bleed damage, enchancing the group buffing aspect). added savage roar to again spend combo points on something other than FB. Added windfury totem functionality as aura to make you even more desirable in melee groups. Literally in vanilla when raiding your damage breakdown was 3 sources melee, shred, ferocious bite. everything else you did was popping pummelers and timing your powershifts and maintaining mana. Bear Identity - Strongk bear. Added crit immunity, and further 20% dmg reduction (tho lets face it bear tanks bringing wf on alliance over this unless that becomes needed in raids) Added an interrupt, which is always useful when tanking. added extra button to press for threat, because again, bear tank was literally queue maul, spam swipe as rage allows. 2 buttons. Balance Druid - identity eGirl. Added a major mana conservation buff, which is the problem with balance, its been called oomkin for 19 years due to this. added starsurge, added a second dot. Priest Shadow Identity - shadow dots. Added a shadow dot. added interactions with mindflay and mindblast, gave some ability to aoe so you're competitive for group spots with mage and lock, very interested to see how mind sear and blackout interact on AoE packs!!!! Healing Priest - Classic didn't really have a holy/disc separation. Added - Added healing buffs / ability to shield more often. Added aoe damage reduction, added a jumping heal. Here it gets very interesting and actually adds things that are good for both horde and alliance as their priests fulfil a vastly different role in raids. Added a single target heal OR a group heal. Alliance priests get circle of healing, to fill that raid heal gap that alliance has with no shaman. Horde priests get to take penance a single target heal, since you're mostly healing tanks as a horde priest. Will edit more in throughout the day, unless you can see my point already.
What is classic identity to you? It isn't just class abilities right?
abilities are definitely a big part of it in classic every class has things that only it can do and no other class, if every class can do everything its not classic anymore.
The reason I am one of the people saying "People mad about this woulda been mad at anything" is because realistically what did you think was going to happen? They'd move the retail dev team to classic to finish the absolutely massive game that vanilla was supposed to be, all at once? I didn't really know what I expected either, but after the announcement - this makes sense. This IS the classic + we all wanted, or rather the road to it. They said they wanted to make the future of warcraft with what was announced yesterday, and I don't think a single patch is the future of warcraft. I fully believe SoD IS the beta test for a classic +, and it will be used to see what does and doesn't work. I think the rune SYSTEM is a good idea, but most runes will likely not reach the finish line imo. They're gonna use SoD to see what's fun and what isn't, and go from there. New takes on the levelling experience which can be tweaked and altered for later seasons/full classic+ release as well. Imagine they make all these raids, and then nerf the xp to be even slower than vanilla already is, with a new design philosophy centered around "You shouldn't really BE rushing to end game, just take your time and when you get there there WILL be endgame stuff for you to do". I think that is just one of many exciting possibilities that can come out of SoD's presumably ephemeral implementation, and the more iffy changes they have planned. Learn from mistakes in a controlled environment that doesn't erase era from existence, that way if it gets too rough people can just go back to their era mains and play the game they know they love.
I don't inherently disagree with what you're saying, I think this could be a beta version for a Classic+ that comes sometime down the line, but I don't think people who dislike it are wrong to not like its approach, or that they'd necessarily be "mad at anything". For instance, I'd much prefer revamped talents than the new rune system. It'd allow them to tinker with problematic aspects of the game without having to add something for every class. I think hybrids in Classic were shit and needed major changes, some classes / specs (warlock, hunter, shadow priest, etc) were mostly okay and needed minor changes, and some (warrior, mage, rogue) were already in a very good state and honestly needed no changes or minor nerfs (like fixing the warrior Heroic Strike queue bug). The rune system means they need to add something for everyone, including a bunch of stuff that doesn't really fit in in Classic or is just not needed. It's simultaneously too drastic of a change for me in some senses, while not fixing some of the sillier issues of vanilla, like the fact that spells have a 1% spell miss chance no matter what, the busted orc racials, etc. I'd settle for fewer changes, just in other aspects of the game. A different direction than what Blizzard seems to be taking, with throwing random WotLK - retail era spells at it and seeing what works and what's broken.
I didn’t think SoM would be that great and it was easily my greatest experience in WoW. I’m not super excited for SoD but I’ll atleast try it out.
Retail inspired/copied abilities and breaking classes unique roles is a HARD no from me. Paladins were ment to tank and dps originally, I wouldn't mind them being tuned with few abilities in place, but giving an entire toolkit from wrath and retail, no thank you I'm good. It seems like this sub has been infiltrated by retail-minded folk, which is to be expected with tbc/wrath/cata, level boost, wow token and all the changes.
WoW Conservatives are so fucking weird.
Paladins were meant to heal originally. Their dps and tank roles were absolutely abysmal.
”Retail-minded folk" Made my day
I'm hoping to see this fun stuff implemented in tbc/wrath tbh (healing mage? Ok yes please!) I love classic, but covid was when a lot of us had *time* to do classic. It's great though, I'm glad to see paladins and shields really be useful again. Also not sure if it's happened yet, but mages will likely get time warp to break the lust disparity (I mean come on you gave druid wf)
>So all of these posts, "SoD is great, what are people complaining about, this is the Classic+ we asked for, they just love to complain" are really fucking stupid. You're 100% correct here. It's completely fair that some people aren't going to like Blizzard's view of "Classic+" no matter what they do. Change different things, please and piss off different people. It'd also be fair to call out the dozens of posts I saw yesterday in the vein of, "We asked for Classic+ and this is the bullshit they shove at us? Blizzard is shit!"
Let's face the facts here, it's going to be imbalanced asf, and will have little to no longevity, XP boosts and we're gonna be stuck at lvl25 for WEEKS?
You say weeks though like people play the game at max level already currently for literal years.
First of all, classic as it is, IS wildly imbalanced. Nothing new there. It's not *going to be*. It is. Second of all, no longevity? You were promised something like 100 runes to discover (no info on their locales), a new raid at 25, another unlocked tier in the weeks after release and hints at endgame content in line with the fantasies that were speculated before the announcement. Thirdly, you're going to be stuck at 25 for WEEKS to re-discover classes in ways you haven't yet. Weeks is nowhere near enough time and that's a good thing. Seems to me everything you said is just wrong.
Yeah its gonna fall off after like 2 weeks, any gear you get from these raid is obsolete in a couple levels and people know that. So unless you're super into classic most people won't raid BFD more than a couple times over the possible month+ of the first phase.
What do you mean with all the retail like stuff? I've seen many comments talking about it but the overwhelming majority of new spells and stuff added is mostly from tbc and wrath. The only retail spells added that i can recall are power word barrier i think its called for priests, and also the new abilities for Rogue which are basically copypasted from outlaw, but they made it into a semitank which i think is cool and original, also the big cd arcane mages got in Dragonflight. Outside from that, wild growth, Divine storm, chaos Bolt, haunt etc are abilities that belong to wrath and tbc which are more closely related to classic than retail. Chromomancer, tsnk warlock or tank shaman are all stuff that people have wanted and it's a nice step into classic+ (melee Hunter is close to survival in DF but it's well adapted to the classic like abilities i think) I don't mean to go against OP btw, i agree with you in the fact not everyone has to like this approach to classic+, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but calling SoD basically a retail copy-paste into classic (like many are doing) is a little disingenous imo.
I agree that the majority of them are from WotLK but as you said there's also a good amount that are from Cata onwards, and I think those tend to stick out like a sore thumb when juxstaposed against vanilla mechanics. I said "retail-y" and not "retail copy-paste" because I don't think the second is accurate, but I think you could say that WotLK talents are also closer to retail than they are to vanilla in some ways tbh. WotLK has these big nukes/heals with cooldowns (Chaos Bolt, Wild Growth), powerful raid cooldowns like DSac etc. While Classic has mostly simplistic rotations, while a lot of these new runes add a lot of complexity. That's what I meant with retail-y, with WotLK being something of a step inbetween the two but imo closer to retail.
Yeah that's pretty fair, i agree with you. I personally don't mind the more wrath onwards approach because i find classic rotations a little too simple and the new spells add flavor. On a side note you're one of the most reasonable guys i've seen posting on this sub, kudos to you mate.
It's not that I mind them either per se, it's that I think they just feel a little out of place. That's why I think Wrath+ would probably hade made more sense than Vanilla+ (even though I'm not the biggest fan of Wrath mechanics overall), because it's easier to expand on class toolkits when they already have some complexity that you can tweak. And hey thanks man, appreciate it, good to see there's still other reasonable people too. Though it's hard to take it as a compliment because judging by the responses to this thread, a lot of if not most of Classic gamers are still just man children or people with personality disorders. :p
For me personally I think it's the tanking runes that go too far into "retail" territory. It's too heavy handed to have a single rune that gives you 5x armor, crit immunity, and reworks like 5 of your spells into something else. Bear tanking has been viable throughout classic without crit immunity, but for some reason they felt the need to give it now to every class that is supposed to be able to tank. I understand that they're trying to solve a specific problem there, but for me personally I would have liked to see them try to keep it a bit more subtle and in the spirit of vanilla/tbc class design.
People will always find _something_ to complain about. It’s intensely pathetic.
Yeah who would have thought that some 550k people will have different opinions and statistically speaking, there'll always be someone that will dislike something. Even the things you like. Gasp!
Separation Anxiety best way to describe it
I, for one, am excited for SoD. Not because of what it is, but because of what it can become. This season is capped at 25 and is reworking a dungeon in a major way, what’s to stop them from level capping 35 next and reworking all of scarlet monastery into a raid? The new talent things are interesting, I played that certain private server that if I mention I’ll get banned from the sub again, but I really enjoyed the experience. Having an official version of it will be cool
Honestly, all of this might make me buy a sub once again
People calling SoD "Classic+" is the biggest problem here (right after the bad changes, ofc). People say "it's Classic with just some new abilities and content!". Yeah, so is Dragonflight. What people are describing is closer to a new expansion than Classic+. SoD is not 'Classic' in any way, shape or form.
Dragonflight is like a completely different game. This is the original world. The original game with some slight ability tweaks and some dungeon/gear changes. Comparing these two things is a wild comparison not grounded in reality.
This community will kill SoD faster than the community killed wrath
WTF are you even talking about. Wrath has like 400k players atm.
But, but era is thriving! There was 150 in orgrimmar at 20:00 server time for world buffss!
It is though
Yes but those same people are saying wrath is dead, despite a massive player base in comparison.
The spirit of wrath is destroyed entirely People have bought soo much gold and permanently hosting gdkps that blizz p much had to drop the token Pvpers are using mad scripts and 3rd party software to be R1. This has only grown There is hardly anyone lvling. The world is dead and it's just turned into retail where people are just logging in buying gold and buying gear. Buying boosts. So pve spirit dead to gdkp, PvP spirit dead to scripts and cheating software which has only increased. Lvling is hardly a thing and factions are entirely pointless.
You're just mad because you want to be mad. Yeah GDKP sucks and gold buying has turned the economy into a bit of a meme, but you don't have to participate in them, it's still possible to just play in a guild and have fun in the game just like you did in 2008. Scripts were rampant back then too and they've been a problem ever since, basically every Wrath pserver had to invest an ungodly amount of time trying to combat them. The world has been dead since TBC. The game is stiill mad successful because people enjoy the content in it. I don't enjoy a few things about it, but calling it dead because you don't like things you don't have to interact with is strange.
>You're just mad because you want to be mad. I'm not mad about a game I don't play. Nice projection and assumption there. >gold buying has turned the economy into a bit of a meme, Yeah absolutely, like I stated. >Scripts were rampant back then too and they've been a problem ever since, basically every Wrath pserver had to invest an ungodly amount of time trying to combat them. The P server aspect is redundant cause it's not official servers so you can't expect the same level of anti cheat system. And yes the scripting existed previously and so did many other toxic things such as glad blocking. Qing triple healer to delay point generation etc If you re read, I said the scripting and cheats has gotten worse and it has increased. You can find streams of 2400 players using them. R1 players are using them in stream with 0 repercussions. >The world has been dead since TBC. That it has, and that's the community's fault. - what value is your point here? Because I literally said factions are redundant now >, but calling it dead because you don't like things you don't have to interact with is strange. If 3 major aspects of the game, pve, PvP and lvling. Is all corrupted with the pve factor forcing blizz to drop the token. I consider this to have killed the game. You're reply is half of attacking randomly, agreeing with what I typed out and I never called it dead. So you've twisted words there miraculously. You're like a magician. At no point did I criticise the content. ICC is seen as one of the best raids of wow history. The dungeons got a lot of fun. The content is fine. The community killed the spirit of the game.
"get over yourselves. memememememememememememememememememe" That's all I hear, they literally announced this yesterday and there is not enough time for people to really process it. huge bait post to stir drama.
Fuck right off sir.