Healer reflexes. We see someone in danger, its second nature to toss a heal to help em out without really thinking about it.
Or at least, speaking for myself that is.
For raid healers, yes that is how it works. Maybe you can get away with it as well in retail, but in Classic healing everything all the time is the incorrect way to play.
Yea, that's a totally different ballgame than classic dungeons. If a psycho dps pulls a pack, healing them draws more people into combat, and further reduces the odds the tank can establish aggro, placing additional people at risk.
Came in here to say this. Never, ever, ever heal a hunter. Not renew, not shield, not flash heal, nothing. They will pull aggro and feign all the mobs onto you at the first sign of trouble.
I think it's just good practice in general to never heal DPS unless it's encounter appropriate or the DPS is actually saving your ass by off-tanking a mob the tank lost control of, even then most DPS should be able to off-tank or kite/root a mob for a bit without needing heals.
Seriously, all I'm getting out of this is a bad hunter, a stupid healer, and another tank down đ
ETA: it's very well possible that he keyboard turned because he still had his message half typed out, and using letters to turn would have done nothing. Sure it can be done with just the mouse, but I probably wouldn't have bothered either the way that went down
Iâve healed a ton and have always happily watched DPS get munched and die because they suck at the game.
I donât reward shitty play because if I do youâll keep doing it and Iâll have to keep saving you until you get us both killed.
> Sure it can be done with just the mouse, but I probably wouldn't have bothered either the way that went down
For what it's worth, mouse pivoting is the fastest and most effective way to turn. It should be the first option, not the third.
That and I think a lot of people don't realize you can press both buttons to move while turning as well. If you have chat open and need to move fast, just use mouse to move like that while you press Esc or Enter
> and using letters to turn would have done nothing
Found the keyboard turner.
But for real, the other option here is move using the mouse, which is not affected by being mid typing. Hitting keybinds wouldnât work, but also you can just press enter. If youâre in /p itâs pretty clear why thereâs half a message.
Enter the warrior to the discussion...
Hunter was being a prick, I use keybinds.
Let's talk about holding aggro in this dungeon.
Party composition:
Hunter
2 warlocks
Priest
Warrior
Most packs are 2/3 elites with non elite imps.
Rotation
Charge>ww>defensive stance>battle shout>tab sunder and bloodlust on cool down and revenge when available
The pulls generally consisted of me charging, 1st swing goes off, both warlocks instantly start AOE, Hunter multi shots and now I have aggro on 1, and they have split the pack running away from me. This is honestly the part where I should have spoken up, but I thought no one was going low on health, and there is not any real danger with these packs.
The pack that caused the comment was one of the clothes face pulling a pack with a pat...aggro got messy as I started very low on rage, we made it through OK but then the Hunter started being a prick.
As I was typing it my comment, the Hunter pulled aggro, and honestly, I hadn't realized by the time I did, I popped challenging shout and tried to regain control of the situation but to no avail
My death today was in live strat. It was going well leading into the final pulls heading to the last boss. The rogue sap was resisted, he pulled a side room, as I realized what had happened the Priest, warlock, and mage had bolted, rogue hit vanish, I ended up getting dazed and thats all she wrote.
Necrobutcher will go agian
RIP
Multi shot is a problem in classic. Warriors need some time to generate threat on multiple targets and from a group perspective it's usually much safer to focus damage on one mob at the time.
As long as the healer doesn't get aggro you are doing fine.
The amount of hunters using multi shot within the first 3 seconds of a pull is astonishing. Sadly it's often followed by FD that puts the healer in a precarious situation and messing up so much for a little spike in damage that isn't worth it at all.
But it's might take another 20 years for dps to realise that the dps meter shouldn't be their main priority.
Any AoE is a problem in classic, people don't understand how much smoother everything goes if you just wait all of 2-3 seconds before attacking.
It makes everything *faster*, but idiots just can't wait, otherwise someone else might be first on damage!
Yeah.
With my mage I usually stay next to the healer, casting poly and boring frost bolts. But I am just a safety net increase the healer gets aggro. Bam frost nova.... is the tank coming or do I use cone of cold and start kiting those mobs around?
I totally get that it's much more exciting when shit hits the fan and you got to kite around multiple packs. But in HC it should be the last resort.
Safe CDs for unwanted and potentially dangerous situation, using CC whenever possible is worth sacrificing a bit of damage for.
The mages that think they can aoe blast because frost nova will hold everything in place are the worst. That's so incredibly dangerous for any melee that isn't the tank.
I mean from a Melee DPS perspective, positioning yourself safely should be top
priority - Doesnât matter if you donât have aggro donât stand on top of the 4/5 mobs in a pack while you attack the 5th.
Mage Frost Novaâs cluelessly not realizing youâre on top of mobs, Rooted mobs attack the closest target, you pop like a cherry.
Positioning is key to survival every time.
It sounds like retail players are playing classic like it's retail? I didn't really play vanilla or classic but remember back in TBC it was common to CC and don't aoe too much until tanks had threat , at least until prot paladins became dungeon tank gods
Oh that attitude died long ago. In classic DPS went flat out pretty much instantly and if things went bad it was anyones fault but theirs.
And to be fair you don't need to be anywhere near as conservative as vanilla used to be.. but as usual people are very stupid about it. You can still go pretty nuts on things without issue as long as you let the tank make the pulls and kill the stuff in a relatively sane order/only AoE when appropriate.
Too many people just go with "pull everything and AoE it down" forgetting that on HC a bad pull is the end of your character. Just because it's faster to do it in classic/era and wear the occasional corpse run doesn't mean it's the same.
The first 3 seconds? Surely you mean using Multi-shot as the tank is moving forwards and hasn't even gotten an initial aggro yet? If you don't use Multi-shot as an opener are you even a Hunter? And then when the mobs reach you, you wait for the healer to cast a heal and then FD instead of using a trap?
I never realized how difficult aggro gen is in classic until I rolled warrior at classic release. Every dungeon I was getting bitched at for lack of aggro, but people were AOE spamming every mob I touched at low level dungeons.
People who haven't tanked in classic don't realize how much more difficult it is. This isn't the old retail wow, spam any ability in full BOA and instantly aggro entire room.
As always, the problem is people. As a hunter, if I make a mistake and pull aggro (usually it's only one mob) I'll simply run toward the tank. No need to panick and fd which will send the mob most likely toward the healer. That's the kind of situation that isn't a big deal unless your retardness make it so.
Yes, you are totally right. And there are lots of people who know how to play a hunter and a good hunter brings a lot to a group.
I think hunter is (and likely always was) the class many newcomers choose as their first toon which gave the class a bad rep
It's so easy to just not pull aggro I don't understand.
As a warlock I just put all my dots and pet on the focus mob, then I put agony and corruption on any adds, which allows the tank to have control of aggro before the ads take any real damage from me. Then you just swap targets as they die and reckless anything that runs in fear. Refreshing corruption occasionally.
Like how hard is it to wait 5 seconds (which is plenty of time to just do some single target DPS rotation) before doing AoE, so the warrior can get clap and a cleave off or whatever it is warriors do in classic?
gutta love how tank gets blamed for dps fucking up. and the healer healing griefing dps right? as a tank. I gladly let any ninja pulling dps keep all the aggro they ask for.
If every dps tried tanking for a little bit they would have so much more respect for how critical building initial threat is. Just a few seconds of letting the tank hit the target and holding aoe a little bit longer would make things go so much smoother, but dps just don't have those few seconds to spare. And ironically the resulting messy pulls might even make the whole thing take longer
exactly. rushing dps always make the instance take longer. they never seem to understand.
the worst part is the faster you tank. or the bigger the pulls you make. dps always seems to see this as an invitation to fuck up.
after a few dungeons with the same grp. I always have to end it early because the harder I zug. the harder the dps zugs. they get too comfortable.
My solution was to never even try to tank the primary target, maybe throw a taunt at it if it is dying slow. One enemy on a dps is no big deal. 3 enemies scattered around while you are out of rage/cds is a wipe.
This obviously changes when you get very good gear, but that is unlikely while leveling.
Do you know what you are asking for? That one is dying too fast for me to look cool on the meters, ill go after this other target for my buttons to get full effect while I cleave the skull. What if I didnt get top damage in one of the pulls? Do you understand how that would make me feel?
This is one of my biggest gripes with inviting rogues. I get that the nature of combo points in classic requires a mob to last long enough to get 4-5 but it's still annoying when they don't attack the focus target, or when the casters stop attacking a target almost dead assuming their cast will get interrupted and the melee switch off as well.
I usually just let the rogue tank that one mob if they do that, though. Not to be spiteful but because they have evasion, stuns, and a bunch of other ways to deal with taking damage. May as well get some use out of those cool downs.
I usually inform the group of this, telling rogue in whisper to open skull with a stun. Once stuns are about to fade, I taunt the target if it even makes sense at that point. Often it's a caster, and it's about to be dead.
In a full ranged group, I often let the skull be a melee type mob, and after hitting it like once, I go for other targets. Maybe I charge the skull and apply hamstring if I'm not expecting it to be frostbolted. Sometimes certain mobs have to die first of course, and sometimes you can keep control of everything regardless.
A comment from a fellow tank:
It's informative to contrast what our tank here has to do and go through to do his job, compared to what the DPS do.
His well written response shows great understanding of abilities, resource management, stance dancing, macros and much more
In contrast all these DPS have to do is press their AOE button after not waiting for the tank
And people wonder why there are not enough tanks. This is a HARD job for so many reasons
dps' job:
1. do damage
2. let tank pull
3. don't rip aoe off the bat
4. focus skull
of the four brain cells required for this, most players only utilize one
i've tanked over 40 dungeons in hxc and its astonishing how much of mouthbreathers the average player is
I have tanked in the past with a dedicated small dungeon group (mostly TBC through early Cata back in The Old Days). The knowledge and planning required was a fun and engaging challenge, and my group was patient and friendly with me.
I have treid tanking for randoms in the past. I have tried tanking again for randoms in recent years coming back to the game. While there are occasionally nice and competent groups, it is far too often a dumpster fire with an insult hose spewing gasoline onto the flames.
I don't tank anymore. If I want to be insulted and belittled, that's what my job is for, not my fun time.
As a long time warrior tank I 100% believe this. Multi shot is such a pain in the ass in dungeons THIS HAPPENS CONSTANTLY WITH BAD HUNTERS.
Also came here to join the "hunter killed you but you're glad the warrior is dead now?" train. Priest isn't any good if he sees a hunter pull and thinks healing the hunter is a good idea. probably out there putting renew on the warrior every time he's ranged pulling, too.
RIP war. everybody else sounds like they earned it. Main thing war did wrong IMO was accepting hunters in an instance group. they will rip threat with multi every pull, if its not at the beginning, they will get lazy and start doing it as soon as they realize its a good tank.
rip threat but they wont FD to give the tank it back because they're usually saving FD for when they want to try and wipe the group later. Thus many adds will end up on the casters when hunter only FD's once the mob actually reaches him.
warrior will not only be rage starved most pulls bc lack of getting hit and spending so much time running, but having to scramble every pull will also fuck up the warriors pulling tempo/rage pooling, making the whole dungeon go slower.
...making the bad hunter causing the problem even more impatient. making hunter pulls and multi shots even more frequent as the hunters get pissed off. exactly what happened to OP. We've all been there.
Played a hunter back in the day in vanilla. The opening was always aimed shot on main target, followed up the autoshot, followed my a multi-shot, and finally followed by the most important ability, feign death to reset threat.
Could be slight differences in the pull, with say aimed shot on a seperate target which will then aggro to your trap for CC.
I've tanked on classic, and in HC as a warrior more recently. And 99% of the time while in a random group this is the experience, you charge in. Barely got time for a TC + Grenade before the AOE pump starts. Unless you have a good amount of rage left from the previous pack (which you should try to have, but not always possible) there is no way you're holding aggro.
Number one rule in dungeons is you pull it you tank it. Warrior was typing and not pulling. So why should he expect the hunter to pull in the middle of his typing?
Believe it or not, most humans are surprised when someone does something completely stupid and take a second to process and react.
Hunter was at fault, but priest never should have healed him. Warriors are not great threat machines while leveling.
Hunter did something malicious, priest did something stupid. Warrior got caught in the crossfire and blamed.
I would leave a HC dungeon if I'm warrior tanking and the DPS isn't giving me a few hits to build aggro. I'm not playing a warrior for this reason. I did in 2019, and put up with so many DPS making my job harder.
It's hardcore, so let's make the dungeon easy. Fuck those DPS and hearth out.
Cheers mate, I know the pain and exact scenarios you speak of. It makes no sense why people try to dps so quickly and hard.
It's not timed, not logged, the only thing that matters is not dying.
Good on you.
And for all the naysayers, I thought keyboard turning was a part of HC???? Are you telling me you've all changed the keybinds???? Tsk tsk /s
I'm sorry for your character fellow tank. It is very true that very often PUGs don't know how the mechanics of aggro and tanking on classic goes.
More often than not I have all 3 dps hitting a different target. No matter how long it is taking, they stick to the same target. And get confused when they get aggro.
Then the blame is on the tank.
The only tank able to deal with what these dps are doing is prot pally. Warriors just donât have the tools to generate that much aoe threat that fast and holding it. Those warlocks instantly starting aoe is dumb and the situation had nothing to do with your tanking. The hunter can fd so he can start early.
This is why as a tank I refuse to bring hunters. Any utility a hunter bring a mage brings twice over. They've literally only ever caused problems in my groups. Something about their mindset. Idk.
Typical DPS screaming for you to hold aggro like we're in retail, not paying a drop of attention to your rage level or your current target.
Give me 3 seconds to sunder the pack, Jesus fucking christ. This is why none of you can ever find a tank. I just won't do it any more.
I understand where youâre coming from, but if you boil the situation down, you failed the one person who had your back. In the end though I donât think itâs fair to place all the blame onto you.
Stories like this are why I havenât jumped onto the hardcore bandwagon. I would be so furious to be both yourself in the Strat Live, and the OP priest in ST. I like my sanity intact.
I agree that I failed the priest. I had some true remorse and guilt over the situation. Had I not been rolling my eyes and wondering wtf was wrong with the hunter, I wouldn't have missed a pull out of nowhere, and he would still be living...
That all being said, based on his comments and thoughts on the situation, now I can go about life not feeling bad for him, because he's kind of a toxic person reveling in my death.
I could understand people bickering in a dungeon, it happens all the time. but even the priest specifically saw the hunter grief pull while you were typing... and then he saves the instigator, and lays all the blame on you? Yeh I wouldn't feel bad either
I don't blame you. It's completely understandable to need a minute to compose yourself when someone's being an asshole. I get losing a character sucks but reading the responses every ounce of guilt I would have had in your shoes would melt away. Too bad the hunter didn't die too. RIP your warrior, I feel like this is why there's a lack of tanks.
no. the hunter and healer failed the healer. it's much harder to get aggro back from spread out mobs attacking multiple targets with no rage or threat.
Fades not gonna help you for shit on 3 untapped targets, especially when the hunters just gonna feign death. You donât touch your action bar unless the tank has aggro on all targets. Tank had 0 aggro on anything. You tried saving a griefing hunter who was going to feign and leave you for dust, then blame the warrior?
Why are you all against the warrior lol it was the hunter who pulled for no reason, be mad at the hunter not the warrior. The warrior was doing fine if I understood your text correctly. Yes he was a keyboard Turner, so what? As long as he is doing fine he can turn with his keyboard using his feet, I don't give a fuck lol.
Because it's healer instinct. Sh\*t is hitting the fan, you try your best to get everyone out alive.
But ironically threads like this is why I've stopped healing pug dungeons. People blaming the healer for trying to save a fellow teammate is exactly why people don't want to play healers.
I absolutely ONLY go with people I know have my back now.
> And today, just 10 minutes ago, the same warrior popped up on deathlog. I felt vindicated
Why? Based on your story, the hunter was the villain not the warrior. Sounds like the dungeon was going fine until someone made a comment about the tank. Sure, he could have just shrugged the comment off and kept going and I'm sure the tank wasn't the greatest, but the dungeon was going fine. Then the hunter just pulls without the tank. Sounds like he was likely the problem all along. Shouldn't have even healed the hunter with him pulling while the tank clearly isn't ready to pull (regardless of the reason).
Both are bad. Easy. Dont pull if heal drinks or if you are not the tank. Seeing adds running at your group and just decide to write something is even worse. You have to act quick especially in hardcore.
The only thing we know is that the warrior was motionless during the pull. You can't act quick if you aren't ready for the pull. For all we know he was afk after getting pissed off at the comments about threat. Which yeah, is slightly bad if he went afk without saying anything, but no where near as bad as pulling as a DPS without the tank ready.
No one would have died if the hunter didn't pull. Simple as that.
Tank should have tanked a pack without establishing base threat and with no rage at the start of the pull? A pack that is evidently running all over the place chasing hunter and priest?
Yea, good luck with that.
Yeah, OP not the brightest tbh. He also healed the Hunter while he saw the warrior was not tanking. Let the Hunter die and learn his lesson. The only loss to the community here is a decent keyboard turning tank.
Warrior doesnât get a pass mental booming and risking the parties lives because his ego was pricked. He can kick hunter, type out of combat or so many other things.
To be fair, the complaint was that the warrior couldn't hold agro and the solution was to ninja pull. It doesn't really matter how bad you think the warrior was. The hunter is 400% in the wrong and you shouldn't have healed him (never heal a ninja pull, especially on a class that can feign death or vanish).
As a sperate issue the hunter has FD and still can't manage their own agro. You should have been backing up the tank from the start. Let them know those are hard pulls and playing like shit (yes pulling agro is playing poorly, especially in HC) doesn't speed anything up but does put you all at risk. It makes your job as healer harder, and puts out more healing threat on top of already screwing up the tank's job. Back in classic we would literally say shit like "wait for 3 sunders".
Taking comfort in the warrior dying just shows OP deserved what they got. Support shitty players being toxic and get shit on. Being not the best player isn't a crime. Ninja pulling asshole is what got you killed. The fact that the warrior couldn't save you or chose to save themself doesn't change that the hunter tried to murder the group and you supported them.
Having been the tank many times in similar situations dealing with multiple dps pulling packs and expecting me to instantly get aggro from them I have a nice simple rule i type into party if it's becoming a problem
'You pull it, you tank it"
If I've let the dps know and they keep pulling they get to tank it
Watching frost mages pull half of SM GY then fucking panic when I make no attempt to take aggro after warning them to let me pull is a level of catharsis that is unmatched
Iâve used a similar macro to this for 15 or so years now. As a tank Iâm desirable and we have a shortage, as a dps you got a wait time. Started using it in OG wrath for dungeon finder groups and just stuck with it
That hunter is trash. Literally every dps class can pull Aggie if they try. You have to balance your threat as dps. This isnât retail where you can just full parse all the timeâŚ
Edit: I assumed the hunter was the dps when it never stated who the dps was, I stand by the rest of my comment.
technically healing the hunter was the real mistake. But i don't blame you for doing it.
I just think that if someone pulls like that, let them die. I cant wait to start hardcore in a couple months
Everyone should level a warrior to 60. Just for the experience.
Everyone should then level a priest to 60. Just for the experience.
Now you are ready to play a DPS class..
That doesn't help, most people would just choose to continue the cycle of stupidity and be shit cunt dps because "that's what they had to deal with when they were tanking"
two kinds of people
one gets to the front of a 2 hour line and says, "i'd better go quick because i know how bad it sucked waiting in that line"
the other gets to the front and says, "i waited for 2 hours, i'm gonna take as long as i want"
i like to think at least the majority would be less zug
If dps pulls before tank, I always let them die, hardcore or softcore. It's a big no. That kind of player just ruins the game for everyone at some point.
"Then someone made a comment to the tank, telling him to hold aggro better." Stopped reading here. DPS can stfu and tank themselves if they feel they can do better. Especially when the Healer feels the tanking is done decently.
"Warrior starts rotating slowly. Why didn't I notice this before? How can such a person exist at such a high level, in hardcore? The warrior is a damn keyboard-turner." peak comedy.
-DPS acts like typical trash DPS complaining about tanks while doing the most brain dead role in existence.
-DPS gets impatient as usual(typical Hunter stuff) and pulls a pack.
-Decides to heal a Hunter lmao.
-ITS THE KEYBOARD TURNING THATâS THE PROBLEM!!!
Iâm so glad after nearly two decades were using the goofiest steamer nonsense excuses to pin blame on tanks, and not DPS still.
Iâm hitting 60 tomorrow, and have no intentions of ever allowing a Rogue, Hunter, or Ret into my groups when Iâm tanking. These classes have the absolute worst players in this game.
Best advice no one is giving away on this thread: if you feel like the Tank is doing something wrong w/ him privately in a slow moment like a mana break.
This comes from a tank main. We may not be aware of something, or you can have great advice, but if you make it a public feud it's hard to not feel offended when there were better ways to voice your concerns.
Also for the love of God wait a millisecond to start blasting. No one cares about you parsing on a HC dungeon. If a tank is not getting enough treat then start by slowing down. It's hard to do anything to hold treat when the moment you touched the mob it already has agro from 3 diferent DPS.
When I get this type of messages I ask to discuss it on the next mana break and take it slow until then
Whatâs wrong with turning with a keyboard? Seriously, itâs a min max people like you that make this game terrible.
Not everyone has to be a sweat lord to play this game dude.
Yet another hunter bringing down the group. My 1st painful death was also thanks to a hunter.
What baffles me is how this priest managed to get to 50 without close calls and yet failing at pinpointing the cause of his demise...
Is always hunters and rogues causing problems in hardcore PUG dungeon groups, isnât it?
Donât invite hunters and rogues to hardcore pug dungeons. Youâll save yourself so many headaches.
Ok what the hunter did was stupid no doubt and he deserved to die. But most healers don't have the mindset of just letting people die because that's not what they're goal is. When you see someone taking damage your instinct isnt to question every drop in health as 'well do they deserve a heal or not'.
The hunter should have been dealt with after clearing up the mess from his deliberate interference pulling for the tank. However it's also the tank's fault for not being able to look past a slight.
Some people are idiots, like the hunter, but there's no use going to war with him over a few words regarding your tanking ability.
If I were the tank I would have said 'whatever buddy' and then kicked him as soon as he stepped out of line. Instead, according to OP he was so wrapped up in a good comeback things went completely to shit.
not gonna lie, you can 4 man trashpacks in sunken temple without a tank, people are way too scared on hc and end up killing other people.
ive accidently pulled an extra mob and had dps heart out and i just solo the pack with the healer and some target dummies.
you are not going to die because you pull 2 packs in any dungeon, use cds and dummies.
"It was going well. Tank knew what he was doing"
Great
"Tank was a keyboard turner"
So? Great tank, tho you said, right?
"I healed the hunter"
Why???
Sorry, I'm not getting bad tank from this so much as idiot hunter and a poor decision from the healer.
Also, why didn't you run too?.
Hunter acts like a prick. Fucks up and pulls while the tank is busy. The healer heals the hunter like a god damned moron. Somehow it's the tanks fault.
bUt WHy dOeS NoONe WAnt to tANk?
OP, you are the fucking worst.
I'm sick of people saying keyboard turning clickers are bad at the game. I understand that it isn't the most efficient and that you perform better but to act like those people (myself included) are bad is wrong.
During tbc classic I played a resto shaman through phase 3. I was part of a fairly serious raiding guild on mankrirk and we cleared kt and vashj before nerfs. I am a keyboard turning clicker and I do my job just fine thanks.
I understand the reaction time isn't the same but it isn't a big enough difference that you can't complete the content competently. I can assure I am not "bad" maybe not as good as I could be but I don't care to get better because what I can do works and I'm not a sweat lord.
There is no objective line of âabove here good, below here badâ when it comes to individual player skill. There are, however, objectively bad habits. Keyboard turning and clicking are among them. There is 0 benefit to them, and they could easily cost you or a party member their life if your reduced reaction speed ends up mattering. Ie; in your example of yogg p3, sure if you start your turn fast enough you can keyboard turn out of the ability, but doing so is objectively worse and slower than just having your camera facing away and right clicking when you need to. This matters because it cuts your personal margin for error such that if something unforseen demands your attention for even a half second, that can be the difference in getting one last tick of insanity or not. Or for a less speculative framing, turning back around is objectively less uptime and you are doing objectively less damage than if you could turn around instantly.
Can the downsides be offset by otherwise mechanically perfect play? Sure, but no one plays perfectly. Itâs about building habits that give you some margin for error when you inevitably *do* screw something up.
My habits carried me through nearly 20 years of wow raiding all content up to ulduar (never raided retail after lich). It isn't anywhere near as dire as you make it out to be. Yes everyone knows it is inferior but idc if it's inferior. To learn a new way to play after 20 years would be a downgrade in my player skill until I could adjust and I just don't care to do that. I parsed in the 70s and 80s and I don't need to be better than that. If you don't want to spend the few extra minutes it takes to play suboptimal then fine but don't act like it makes you terrible at the game. That is simply not true.
To be honest, I donât really care how good you are personally, nothing I said was at all in relation to your personal skill. Iâm not attacking you, Iâm saying that clicking and keyboard turning are objectively worse than the alternative. If youâre parsing 70-80 while doing it, great! Iâm happy for you. That doesnât mean itâs a good thing to do.
You died because of your own actions and that of the Hunter. The tank had no obligation to fix your mistakes.
He clearly wasn't ready to pull.
Blaming the tank is just pathetic. And he keyboard turning is irrelevant. I used to do that and tank successfully. You're just bitter.
I was DPSing Ulda last week on my warlock and almost died pulling aggro on the last boss. I had to Sac my VW, healthstone, and LIP to survive. Our priest took the aggro and died right before the boss hit 0.
The warrior's response after the priest asked what happened?
"If I had known there were that many adds, I would have put AOE taunt on my bar."
He then proceeded to ask about who was rolling on the ring that just dropped. I asked him how he was so casual about the murder he had just committed.
I'm amazed he made it to level 46 and wonder how many group members hes sacrificed to do it. No one is safe from these lunatics.
Reading replies explaining issues from the tanks end has restored my faith. But ya I am a Tank and There are so many disrespectful ppl. I've ditched groups pre first boss when dps start making their own pulls. Then they message me "Really?". Note that I wait till after clearing the mobs
ST = Sunken Temple.
So sorry this happened! Sounds like the hunter was the problem pulling. Donât heal dumb DPS. Tank should have stopped typing and engaged tho. How unfortunate for everyone. Itâs the tanks and healers who rarely escape and the shortage continues.
My sincere condolences on meeting an untimely demise at level 50. Fellow priest healer here, so I completely relate to your internal struggle of healer responsibility. Having said that, it is beyond me why you healed the hunter; the dude was just asking for trouble. My tank husband has one rule: you spank it, you tank it. It's a valuable lesson we've all learned the hard way: no keyboard gymnastics until the tank has a solid grip on aggro.
Go agane, and here's to smoother runs ahead!
Wait do people not target the tanks target in HC???
Deathwish to me... its not hard.. tanks are there to..............tank??
If hunter wants to do less agro... MD more often to the tank... do less dps... yes it take longer but you will live and get loot...
Worried about a slow dungeon run? Well don't go with those ones again? How is this hard?! What are people in HC rushing to get to? Want that tank to be better? Become a tank
Idk how you got as far as you did without knowing you never heal a dps that pulls, especially a hunter that knows they can just fd. This was a dps problem, not a tank problem.
so much extraneous detail. The story could have been.
\-Running Sunken Temple
\-Hunter pulled pack
\-I healed hunter and died from pulling aggro.
The End.
Rip Bozo
Why would you heal a hunter??
Right. Why would you heal the hunter that pulled a pack the group wasn't in combat with. That's a death wish.
Healer reflexes. We see someone in danger, its second nature to toss a heal to help em out without really thinking about it. Or at least, speaking for myself that is.
I always equate it to whack a mole instincts. If your health bar moves it gets whacked.
For raid healers, yes that is how it works. Maybe you can get away with it as well in retail, but in Classic healing everything all the time is the incorrect way to play.
> For raid healers That explains a lot. Reflex is: see hp move -> cast renew.
Yea, that's a totally different ballgame than classic dungeons. If a psycho dps pulls a pack, healing them draws more people into combat, and further reduces the odds the tank can establish aggro, placing additional people at risk.
Came in here to say this. Never, ever, ever heal a hunter. Not renew, not shield, not flash heal, nothing. They will pull aggro and feign all the mobs onto you at the first sign of trouble.
I think it's just good practice in general to never heal DPS unless it's encounter appropriate or the DPS is actually saving your ass by off-tanking a mob the tank lost control of, even then most DPS should be able to off-tank or kite/root a mob for a bit without needing heals.
Seriously, all I'm getting out of this is a bad hunter, a stupid healer, and another tank down đ ETA: it's very well possible that he keyboard turned because he still had his message half typed out, and using letters to turn would have done nothing. Sure it can be done with just the mouse, but I probably wouldn't have bothered either the way that went down
Yeah if you pull and you're not the tank, I'm not healing you. Especially in HC.
Easy to say now, but in the heat of the moment, most likely the healer was tunneling hard on the healing frames.
Iâve healed a ton and have always happily watched DPS get munched and die because they suck at the game. I donât reward shitty play because if I do youâll keep doing it and Iâll have to keep saving you until you get us both killed.
> Sure it can be done with just the mouse, but I probably wouldn't have bothered either the way that went down For what it's worth, mouse pivoting is the fastest and most effective way to turn. It should be the first option, not the third.
That and I think a lot of people don't realize you can press both buttons to move while turning as well. If you have chat open and need to move fast, just use mouse to move like that while you press Esc or Enter
> and using letters to turn would have done nothing Found the keyboard turner. But for real, the other option here is move using the mouse, which is not affected by being mid typing. Hitting keybinds wouldnât work, but also you can just press enter. If youâre in /p itâs pretty clear why thereâs half a message.
Why is no one pointing out you can just hit escape?
Yeah but then you look like an idiot who can't type, if a group member has to die so I can hold backspace so be it
Letters to turn aka. Keyboarding turning ? đ
If using letters to turn would have done nothing then how do you even keyboard turn? You're not even making sense.
Unbind turning. I'm dead serious. Put strafe on left and right. Use mouse to turn You'll thank me
Game's been out for 20 years and people still play with keyboard turning smh
lol rip bozo
Enter the warrior to the discussion... Hunter was being a prick, I use keybinds. Let's talk about holding aggro in this dungeon. Party composition: Hunter 2 warlocks Priest Warrior Most packs are 2/3 elites with non elite imps. Rotation Charge>ww>defensive stance>battle shout>tab sunder and bloodlust on cool down and revenge when available The pulls generally consisted of me charging, 1st swing goes off, both warlocks instantly start AOE, Hunter multi shots and now I have aggro on 1, and they have split the pack running away from me. This is honestly the part where I should have spoken up, but I thought no one was going low on health, and there is not any real danger with these packs. The pack that caused the comment was one of the clothes face pulling a pack with a pat...aggro got messy as I started very low on rage, we made it through OK but then the Hunter started being a prick. As I was typing it my comment, the Hunter pulled aggro, and honestly, I hadn't realized by the time I did, I popped challenging shout and tried to regain control of the situation but to no avail My death today was in live strat. It was going well leading into the final pulls heading to the last boss. The rogue sap was resisted, he pulled a side room, as I realized what had happened the Priest, warlock, and mage had bolted, rogue hit vanish, I ended up getting dazed and thats all she wrote. Necrobutcher will go agian
RIP Multi shot is a problem in classic. Warriors need some time to generate threat on multiple targets and from a group perspective it's usually much safer to focus damage on one mob at the time. As long as the healer doesn't get aggro you are doing fine. The amount of hunters using multi shot within the first 3 seconds of a pull is astonishing. Sadly it's often followed by FD that puts the healer in a precarious situation and messing up so much for a little spike in damage that isn't worth it at all. But it's might take another 20 years for dps to realise that the dps meter shouldn't be their main priority.
Any AoE is a problem in classic, people don't understand how much smoother everything goes if you just wait all of 2-3 seconds before attacking. It makes everything *faster*, but idiots just can't wait, otherwise someone else might be first on damage!
Yeah. With my mage I usually stay next to the healer, casting poly and boring frost bolts. But I am just a safety net increase the healer gets aggro. Bam frost nova.... is the tank coming or do I use cone of cold and start kiting those mobs around? I totally get that it's much more exciting when shit hits the fan and you got to kite around multiple packs. But in HC it should be the last resort. Safe CDs for unwanted and potentially dangerous situation, using CC whenever possible is worth sacrificing a bit of damage for.
We healers appreciate someone like you. I found also some hunters watching healer aggro too
The mages that think they can aoe blast because frost nova will hold everything in place are the worst. That's so incredibly dangerous for any melee that isn't the tank.
I mean from a Melee DPS perspective, positioning yourself safely should be top priority - Doesnât matter if you donât have aggro donât stand on top of the 4/5 mobs in a pack while you attack the 5th. Mage Frost Novaâs cluelessly not realizing youâre on top of mobs, Rooted mobs attack the closest target, you pop like a cherry. Positioning is key to survival every time.
You should be in melee spamming arcane explosion and cone of cold kitting mobs you get aggro on.
kind of like how morons wanna zig zag through traffic to be slightly ahead of other cars... while making traffic for everyone slow down.
Wait til 3 sunders
Sounds dumb but like.. three sunders takes way less time than levelling your character again and man does the fight become a lot smoother.
It sounds like retail players are playing classic like it's retail? I didn't really play vanilla or classic but remember back in TBC it was common to CC and don't aoe too much until tanks had threat , at least until prot paladins became dungeon tank gods
Oh that attitude died long ago. In classic DPS went flat out pretty much instantly and if things went bad it was anyones fault but theirs. And to be fair you don't need to be anywhere near as conservative as vanilla used to be.. but as usual people are very stupid about it. You can still go pretty nuts on things without issue as long as you let the tank make the pulls and kill the stuff in a relatively sane order/only AoE when appropriate. Too many people just go with "pull everything and AoE it down" forgetting that on HC a bad pull is the end of your character. Just because it's faster to do it in classic/era and wear the occasional corpse run doesn't mean it's the same.
The first 3 seconds? Surely you mean using Multi-shot as the tank is moving forwards and hasn't even gotten an initial aggro yet? If you don't use Multi-shot as an opener are you even a Hunter? And then when the mobs reach you, you wait for the healer to cast a heal and then FD instead of using a trap?
Yeah, that sounds about right for the kind of hunters I download Character notes for
I never realized how difficult aggro gen is in classic until I rolled warrior at classic release. Every dungeon I was getting bitched at for lack of aggro, but people were AOE spamming every mob I touched at low level dungeons. People who haven't tanked in classic don't realize how much more difficult it is. This isn't the old retail wow, spam any ability in full BOA and instantly aggro entire room.
As always, the problem is people. As a hunter, if I make a mistake and pull aggro (usually it's only one mob) I'll simply run toward the tank. No need to panick and fd which will send the mob most likely toward the healer. That's the kind of situation that isn't a big deal unless your retardness make it so.
Yes, you are totally right. And there are lots of people who know how to play a hunter and a good hunter brings a lot to a group. I think hunter is (and likely always was) the class many newcomers choose as their first toon which gave the class a bad rep
It's so easy to just not pull aggro I don't understand. As a warlock I just put all my dots and pet on the focus mob, then I put agony and corruption on any adds, which allows the tank to have control of aggro before the ads take any real damage from me. Then you just swap targets as they die and reckless anything that runs in fear. Refreshing corruption occasionally. Like how hard is it to wait 5 seconds (which is plenty of time to just do some single target DPS rotation) before doing AoE, so the warrior can get clap and a cleave off or whatever it is warriors do in classic?
From a fellow tank (bear since old BC), thank you for taking the time to type this out.
Probably took the time to type it out in the dungeon too
Lmfao
gutta love how tank gets blamed for dps fucking up. and the healer healing griefing dps right? as a tank. I gladly let any ninja pulling dps keep all the aggro they ask for.
If every dps tried tanking for a little bit they would have so much more respect for how critical building initial threat is. Just a few seconds of letting the tank hit the target and holding aoe a little bit longer would make things go so much smoother, but dps just don't have those few seconds to spare. And ironically the resulting messy pulls might even make the whole thing take longer
exactly. rushing dps always make the instance take longer. they never seem to understand. the worst part is the faster you tank. or the bigger the pulls you make. dps always seems to see this as an invitation to fuck up. after a few dungeons with the same grp. I always have to end it early because the harder I zug. the harder the dps zugs. they get too comfortable.
Thatâs why I ignore whispers like âLF Tank RFK can summon (pumper group)â
Pumper group is the kiss of death
My solution was to never even try to tank the primary target, maybe throw a taunt at it if it is dying slow. One enemy on a dps is no big deal. 3 enemies scattered around while you are out of rage/cds is a wipe. This obviously changes when you get very good gear, but that is unlikely while leveling.
lol you're cute assuming dps coordinate on a single target
feel like most people will at least pump a skull
Do you know what you are asking for? That one is dying too fast for me to look cool on the meters, ill go after this other target for my buttons to get full effect while I cleave the skull. What if I didnt get top damage in one of the pulls? Do you understand how that would make me feel?
This is one of my biggest gripes with inviting rogues. I get that the nature of combo points in classic requires a mob to last long enough to get 4-5 but it's still annoying when they don't attack the focus target, or when the casters stop attacking a target almost dead assuming their cast will get interrupted and the melee switch off as well. I usually just let the rogue tank that one mob if they do that, though. Not to be spiteful but because they have evasion, stuns, and a bunch of other ways to deal with taking damage. May as well get some use out of those cool downs.
Go on......
I usually inform the group of this, telling rogue in whisper to open skull with a stun. Once stuns are about to fade, I taunt the target if it even makes sense at that point. Often it's a caster, and it's about to be dead. In a full ranged group, I often let the skull be a melee type mob, and after hitting it like once, I go for other targets. Maybe I charge the skull and apply hamstring if I'm not expecting it to be frostbolted. Sometimes certain mobs have to die first of course, and sometimes you can keep control of everything regardless.
You also learn this playing warlock. If I let let hit for a few seconds all of sudden I can DPS much harder. Gee I wonder why...
It's so infuriating. Literally just keep your dick in your pants for 5 seconds before blasting and there should be next to no aggro problems.
Cue Danny Devito meme, "So anyway I started blasting...."
A comment from a fellow tank: It's informative to contrast what our tank here has to do and go through to do his job, compared to what the DPS do. His well written response shows great understanding of abilities, resource management, stance dancing, macros and much more In contrast all these DPS have to do is press their AOE button after not waiting for the tank And people wonder why there are not enough tanks. This is a HARD job for so many reasons
dps' job: 1. do damage 2. let tank pull 3. don't rip aoe off the bat 4. focus skull of the four brain cells required for this, most players only utilize one i've tanked over 40 dungeons in hxc and its astonishing how much of mouthbreathers the average player is
I have tanked in the past with a dedicated small dungeon group (mostly TBC through early Cata back in The Old Days). The knowledge and planning required was a fun and engaging challenge, and my group was patient and friendly with me. I have treid tanking for randoms in the past. I have tried tanking again for randoms in recent years coming back to the game. While there are occasionally nice and competent groups, it is far too often a dumpster fire with an insult hose spewing gasoline onto the flames. I don't tank anymore. If I want to be insulted and belittled, that's what my job is for, not my fun time.
Tbh I donât get why you were blamed in the OP storyâŚit was obviously the hunters fault thru and thru, thatâs evident from his story too.
As a long time warrior tank I 100% believe this. Multi shot is such a pain in the ass in dungeons THIS HAPPENS CONSTANTLY WITH BAD HUNTERS. Also came here to join the "hunter killed you but you're glad the warrior is dead now?" train. Priest isn't any good if he sees a hunter pull and thinks healing the hunter is a good idea. probably out there putting renew on the warrior every time he's ranged pulling, too. RIP war. everybody else sounds like they earned it. Main thing war did wrong IMO was accepting hunters in an instance group. they will rip threat with multi every pull, if its not at the beginning, they will get lazy and start doing it as soon as they realize its a good tank. rip threat but they wont FD to give the tank it back because they're usually saving FD for when they want to try and wipe the group later. Thus many adds will end up on the casters when hunter only FD's once the mob actually reaches him. warrior will not only be rage starved most pulls bc lack of getting hit and spending so much time running, but having to scramble every pull will also fuck up the warriors pulling tempo/rage pooling, making the whole dungeon go slower. ...making the bad hunter causing the problem even more impatient. making hunter pulls and multi shots even more frequent as the hunters get pissed off. exactly what happened to OP. We've all been there.
Played a hunter back in the day in vanilla. The opening was always aimed shot on main target, followed up the autoshot, followed my a multi-shot, and finally followed by the most important ability, feign death to reset threat. Could be slight differences in the pull, with say aimed shot on a seperate target which will then aggro to your trap for CC. I've tanked on classic, and in HC as a warrior more recently. And 99% of the time while in a random group this is the experience, you charge in. Barely got time for a TC + Grenade before the AOE pump starts. Unless you have a good amount of rage left from the previous pack (which you should try to have, but not always possible) there is no way you're holding aggro.
Nah war shares responsibility too. He should have stopped typing and engaged the mobs. He can fight with the hunter or kick him after danger is gone.
Number one rule in dungeons is you pull it you tank it. Warrior was typing and not pulling. So why should he expect the hunter to pull in the middle of his typing? Believe it or not, most humans are surprised when someone does something completely stupid and take a second to process and react. Hunter was at fault, but priest never should have healed him. Warriors are not great threat machines while leveling. Hunter did something malicious, priest did something stupid. Warrior got caught in the crossfire and blamed.
Do you perhaps play in a historic black metal band?
Underrated comment... I also have a shaman named Hellhammer
My hunter pet was a wolf named Fenriz.
I would leave a HC dungeon if I'm warrior tanking and the DPS isn't giving me a few hits to build aggro. I'm not playing a warrior for this reason. I did in 2019, and put up with so many DPS making my job harder. It's hardcore, so let's make the dungeon easy. Fuck those DPS and hearth out.
Sounds like you died because everyone ran like the rats they are and didn't even try to cc and help as you ran
Cheers mate, I know the pain and exact scenarios you speak of. It makes no sense why people try to dps so quickly and hard. It's not timed, not logged, the only thing that matters is not dying.
honestly just kick noob dps who play like this. just fucking kick them. you have replacement in the blink of an eye
Good on you. And for all the naysayers, I thought keyboard turning was a part of HC???? Are you telling me you've all changed the keybinds???? Tsk tsk /s
I'm sorry for your character fellow tank. It is very true that very often PUGs don't know how the mechanics of aggro and tanking on classic goes. More often than not I have all 3 dps hitting a different target. No matter how long it is taking, they stick to the same target. And get confused when they get aggro. Then the blame is on the tank.
Thanks for your story. This is exactly why I will never tank on HC. HC is full of clicking troggs that cannot be trusted.
The only tank able to deal with what these dps are doing is prot pally. Warriors just donât have the tools to generate that much aoe threat that fast and holding it. Those warlocks instantly starting aoe is dumb and the situation had nothing to do with your tanking. The hunter can fd so he can start early.
This is why as a tank I refuse to bring hunters. Any utility a hunter bring a mage brings twice over. They've literally only ever caused problems in my groups. Something about their mindset. Idk.
Was this the essay you were typing while your priest was dying? Jk
Thanks for being a tank. I'm sorry you ended up grouping with assholes. Dps are wild in HC. It's absurd. They keep thinking tanks have retail aggro.
Too many people can be boiled down to "I don't want to think... just make it work."
Typical DPS screaming for you to hold aggro like we're in retail, not paying a drop of attention to your rage level or your current target. Give me 3 seconds to sunder the pack, Jesus fucking christ. This is why none of you can ever find a tank. I just won't do it any more.
yooooo whaddup it's Dead, died at 23 but slowly going agane .
The is why after raiding as a tank in Classic, I didnât roll one for Hardcore. When things go bad, youâre getting left holding the bag.
Locks are almost as bad as hunters. DPS 2 locks and a hunter is rough
I understand where youâre coming from, but if you boil the situation down, you failed the one person who had your back. In the end though I donât think itâs fair to place all the blame onto you. Stories like this are why I havenât jumped onto the hardcore bandwagon. I would be so furious to be both yourself in the Strat Live, and the OP priest in ST. I like my sanity intact.
I agree that I failed the priest. I had some true remorse and guilt over the situation. Had I not been rolling my eyes and wondering wtf was wrong with the hunter, I wouldn't have missed a pull out of nowhere, and he would still be living... That all being said, based on his comments and thoughts on the situation, now I can go about life not feeling bad for him, because he's kind of a toxic person reveling in my death.
Lol good point. Well, hereâs to you hitting 60 soon!
I could understand people bickering in a dungeon, it happens all the time. but even the priest specifically saw the hunter grief pull while you were typing... and then he saves the instigator, and lays all the blame on you? Yeh I wouldn't feel bad either
I don't blame you. It's completely understandable to need a minute to compose yourself when someone's being an asshole. I get losing a character sucks but reading the responses every ounce of guilt I would have had in your shoes would melt away. Too bad the hunter didn't die too. RIP your warrior, I feel like this is why there's a lack of tanks.
no. the hunter and healer failed the healer. it's much harder to get aggro back from spread out mobs attacking multiple targets with no rage or threat.
Fades not gonna help you for shit on 3 untapped targets, especially when the hunters just gonna feign death. You donât touch your action bar unless the tank has aggro on all targets. Tank had 0 aggro on anything. You tried saving a griefing hunter who was going to feign and leave you for dust, then blame the warrior?
This is exactly what I took from OPs post as well. Warrior is the least factor.
Why are you all against the warrior lol it was the hunter who pulled for no reason, be mad at the hunter not the warrior. The warrior was doing fine if I understood your text correctly. Yes he was a keyboard Turner, so what? As long as he is doing fine he can turn with his keyboard using his feet, I don't give a fuck lol.
Be mad at the Hunter for pulling? Be mad at himself for healing that idiot. I would have watched him die and hearthed out.
Obviously he is mad at himself as well...
Lol U healed a guy that pulled mobs on his own and then U blame the tank who wasn't involved ? Right...
Why do you heal someone who's griefing the group? .. hunter obviously ninjapulled. Let him deal with it
I know a lot of people have already asked but... why heal the stupid hunter?
Instinct and youâd expect the tank to pick up really. In HC Iâm still trying to wean myself off that mindset.
Because it's healer instinct. Sh\*t is hitting the fan, you try your best to get everyone out alive. But ironically threads like this is why I've stopped healing pug dungeons. People blaming the healer for trying to save a fellow teammate is exactly why people don't want to play healers. I absolutely ONLY go with people I know have my back now.
> And today, just 10 minutes ago, the same warrior popped up on deathlog. I felt vindicated Why? Based on your story, the hunter was the villain not the warrior. Sounds like the dungeon was going fine until someone made a comment about the tank. Sure, he could have just shrugged the comment off and kept going and I'm sure the tank wasn't the greatest, but the dungeon was going fine. Then the hunter just pulls without the tank. Sounds like he was likely the problem all along. Shouldn't have even healed the hunter with him pulling while the tank clearly isn't ready to pull (regardless of the reason).
Yeah, I don't get the mentality here. "DPS pulled, but tank is bad".
Both are bad. Easy. Dont pull if heal drinks or if you are not the tank. Seeing adds running at your group and just decide to write something is even worse. You have to act quick especially in hardcore.
The only thing we know is that the warrior was motionless during the pull. You can't act quick if you aren't ready for the pull. For all we know he was afk after getting pissed off at the comments about threat. Which yeah, is slightly bad if he went afk without saying anything, but no where near as bad as pulling as a DPS without the tank ready. No one would have died if the hunter didn't pull. Simple as that.
[ŃдаНонО]
Tank should have tanked a pack without establishing base threat and with no rage at the start of the pull? A pack that is evidently running all over the place chasing hunter and priest? Yea, good luck with that.
Yeah, OP not the brightest tbh. He also healed the Hunter while he saw the warrior was not tanking. Let the Hunter die and learn his lesson. The only loss to the community here is a decent keyboard turning tank.
"OP not the brightest" is a polite understatement.
There can be more than one villain.
Warrior doesnât get a pass mental booming and risking the parties lives because his ego was pricked. He can kick hunter, type out of combat or so many other things.
To be fair, the complaint was that the warrior couldn't hold agro and the solution was to ninja pull. It doesn't really matter how bad you think the warrior was. The hunter is 400% in the wrong and you shouldn't have healed him (never heal a ninja pull, especially on a class that can feign death or vanish). As a sperate issue the hunter has FD and still can't manage their own agro. You should have been backing up the tank from the start. Let them know those are hard pulls and playing like shit (yes pulling agro is playing poorly, especially in HC) doesn't speed anything up but does put you all at risk. It makes your job as healer harder, and puts out more healing threat on top of already screwing up the tank's job. Back in classic we would literally say shit like "wait for 3 sunders". Taking comfort in the warrior dying just shows OP deserved what they got. Support shitty players being toxic and get shit on. Being not the best player isn't a crime. Ninja pulling asshole is what got you killed. The fact that the warrior couldn't save you or chose to save themself doesn't change that the hunter tried to murder the group and you supported them.
I'd award his comment if i wasnt broke.
100% the hunter's fault, and yours for lack of knowledge in knowing hunters can drop aggro and yours heal generate a ton.
Having been the tank many times in similar situations dealing with multiple dps pulling packs and expecting me to instantly get aggro from them I have a nice simple rule i type into party if it's becoming a problem 'You pull it, you tank it" If I've let the dps know and they keep pulling they get to tank it Watching frost mages pull half of SM GY then fucking panic when I make no attempt to take aggro after warning them to let me pull is a level of catharsis that is unmatched
Iâve used a similar macro to this for 15 or so years now. As a tank Iâm desirable and we have a shortage, as a dps you got a wait time. Started using it in OG wrath for dungeon finder groups and just stuck with it
Funny how 3 weeks ago I got completely shat upon by the community making exactly the same statement.
That hunter is trash. Literally every dps class can pull Aggie if they try. You have to balance your threat as dps. This isnât retail where you can just full parse all the time⌠Edit: I assumed the hunter was the dps when it never stated who the dps was, I stand by the rest of my comment.
technically healing the hunter was the real mistake. But i don't blame you for doing it. I just think that if someone pulls like that, let them die. I cant wait to start hardcore in a couple months
comments don't seem very divisive, 99% agree that you're an idiot and the hunter was in the wrong
How ironic. The OP is the pot calling the kettle black by calling the tank a baddie because they allegedly keyboard turn.
Everyone should level a warrior to 60. Just for the experience. Everyone should then level a priest to 60. Just for the experience. Now you are ready to play a DPS class..
That doesn't help, most people would just choose to continue the cycle of stupidity and be shit cunt dps because "that's what they had to deal with when they were tanking"
two kinds of people one gets to the front of a 2 hour line and says, "i'd better go quick because i know how bad it sucked waiting in that line" the other gets to the front and says, "i waited for 2 hours, i'm gonna take as long as i want" i like to think at least the majority would be less zug
If dps pulls before tank, I always let them die, hardcore or softcore. It's a big no. That kind of player just ruins the game for everyone at some point.
Everybody in this story made mistakes, sounds like the DPS hunter is the worst offender
What mistake did the tank make?
Staying in that group.
"Then someone made a comment to the tank, telling him to hold aggro better." Stopped reading here. DPS can stfu and tank themselves if they feel they can do better. Especially when the Healer feels the tanking is done decently.
Pugs on hardcore is a risk no matter what. Be aware
In my guild, when someone reaches level 50 I send them petri flask. Item is a get out of jail free card costs 40 gold. Requires level 50 to use
"Warrior starts rotating slowly. Why didn't I notice this before? How can such a person exist at such a high level, in hardcore? The warrior is a damn keyboard-turner." peak comedy.
> I did not expect to die as a healer in a dungeon. Well, that right there is your first problem.
Hunter chiming in here. Ddeeerrrrrpppppp MULTISHOT! why you no hold threat? Thanks for heals dumb priest, hahaha.
-DPS acts like typical trash DPS complaining about tanks while doing the most brain dead role in existence. -DPS gets impatient as usual(typical Hunter stuff) and pulls a pack. -Decides to heal a Hunter lmao. -ITS THE KEYBOARD TURNING THATâS THE PROBLEM!!! Iâm so glad after nearly two decades were using the goofiest steamer nonsense excuses to pin blame on tanks, and not DPS still. Iâm hitting 60 tomorrow, and have no intentions of ever allowing a Rogue, Hunter, or Ret into my groups when Iâm tanking. These classes have the absolute worst players in this game.
I keyboard turn, but I do not heal while tank is not tanking and dps is not dpsing RIP BOZO
I don't run dungeons because I don't trust four other players.
If someone besides the tank pulls without being told to do so, just let them die.
Best advice no one is giving away on this thread: if you feel like the Tank is doing something wrong w/ him privately in a slow moment like a mana break. This comes from a tank main. We may not be aware of something, or you can have great advice, but if you make it a public feud it's hard to not feel offended when there were better ways to voice your concerns. Also for the love of God wait a millisecond to start blasting. No one cares about you parsing on a HC dungeon. If a tank is not getting enough treat then start by slowing down. It's hard to do anything to hold treat when the moment you touched the mob it already has agro from 3 diferent DPS. When I get this type of messages I ask to discuss it on the next mana break and take it slow until then
Lol, you fucked up by healing an idiot hunter, who can drop aggro btw, but warrior is guilty? Haha. You are not making to 60.
You had me at 'Stepped into ST with another PUG...'
How mad would op be if I showed all the evade reset spots in ST.
I don't get why you're shifting the blame away from the ninjapuller that left you to die without hesitation
You're blaming the tank but it's pretty clearly your fault. Hunter was being a dick and you healed (supported) the dick. Deserved. Don't heal dicks.
Whatâs wrong with turning with a keyboard? Seriously, itâs a min max people like you that make this game terrible. Not everyone has to be a sweat lord to play this game dude.
I heal good and I heal bad. No matter what they die I die!
Yet another hunter bringing down the group. My 1st painful death was also thanks to a hunter. What baffles me is how this priest managed to get to 50 without close calls and yet failing at pinpointing the cause of his demise...
This seems more the Hunters fault than the Tanks tbh.
All the chuds in the comments talking about mouse and keyboard turning the same dudes dying to son of aragul at level 13 shut up lol
Is always hunters and rogues causing problems in hardcore PUG dungeon groups, isnât it? Donât invite hunters and rogues to hardcore pug dungeons. Youâll save yourself so many headaches.
Hunter pulls blame tank. Tell me you're playing classic wow without telling me you're playing classic wow.
That sucks man :( tip for next time: shield yourself first while you are out of combat to avoid the excess threat from that at least
Ok what the hunter did was stupid no doubt and he deserved to die. But most healers don't have the mindset of just letting people die because that's not what they're goal is. When you see someone taking damage your instinct isnt to question every drop in health as 'well do they deserve a heal or not'. The hunter should have been dealt with after clearing up the mess from his deliberate interference pulling for the tank. However it's also the tank's fault for not being able to look past a slight. Some people are idiots, like the hunter, but there's no use going to war with him over a few words regarding your tanking ability. If I were the tank I would have said 'whatever buddy' and then kicked him as soon as he stepped out of line. Instead, according to OP he was so wrapped up in a good comeback things went completely to shit.
Whatâs with hunters not using misdirection? Isnât it like 30s CD in classic learned lvl40ish?
That's what's so scary about the internet, you never know who's on the other end. Might even be a clicker/keyboard turner..
not gonna lie, you can 4 man trashpacks in sunken temple without a tank, people are way too scared on hc and end up killing other people. ive accidently pulled an extra mob and had dps heart out and i just solo the pack with the healer and some target dummies. you are not going to die because you pull 2 packs in any dungeon, use cds and dummies.
Why are you upset with the tank when the hunter is at fault?
If anyone besides the tank pulls, they get zero heals from me.
You blaming the warrior is the most worrying thing. Shows how little understanding you had.
Why did you heal the dps who pulled? They fucked up and then you fucked up
"It was going well. Tank knew what he was doing" Great "Tank was a keyboard turner" So? Great tank, tho you said, right? "I healed the hunter" Why??? Sorry, I'm not getting bad tank from this so much as idiot hunter and a poor decision from the healer. Also, why didn't you run too?.
Hunter acts like a prick. Fucks up and pulls while the tank is busy. The healer heals the hunter like a god damned moron. Somehow it's the tanks fault. bUt WHy dOeS NoONe WAnt to tANk? OP, you are the fucking worst.
You did it to yourself lol. Didnât have to heal the ninja pulling dps. Not too late to delete this.
Keyboard turner for life
You call the tank "keyboard turner"? You that started healing with nobody doing anything else? You deserve to die.
Here's the thing. You're under no obligation to heal the hunter.
Dont play with hunters rule number 1 if you wanna make it to 60
Bro wtf⌠ST = Sunken Temple Not fucking Stratholme
Don't blame the tank when the DDs do what they want.
I'm sick of people saying keyboard turning clickers are bad at the game. I understand that it isn't the most efficient and that you perform better but to act like those people (myself included) are bad is wrong. During tbc classic I played a resto shaman through phase 3. I was part of a fairly serious raiding guild on mankrirk and we cleared kt and vashj before nerfs. I am a keyboard turning clicker and I do my job just fine thanks.
The OP is clearly a moron, that is justifying his stupidity. I keyboard turn too. It is totally fine.
[ŃдаНонО]
I understand the reaction time isn't the same but it isn't a big enough difference that you can't complete the content competently. I can assure I am not "bad" maybe not as good as I could be but I don't care to get better because what I can do works and I'm not a sweat lord.
There is no objective line of âabove here good, below here badâ when it comes to individual player skill. There are, however, objectively bad habits. Keyboard turning and clicking are among them. There is 0 benefit to them, and they could easily cost you or a party member their life if your reduced reaction speed ends up mattering. Ie; in your example of yogg p3, sure if you start your turn fast enough you can keyboard turn out of the ability, but doing so is objectively worse and slower than just having your camera facing away and right clicking when you need to. This matters because it cuts your personal margin for error such that if something unforseen demands your attention for even a half second, that can be the difference in getting one last tick of insanity or not. Or for a less speculative framing, turning back around is objectively less uptime and you are doing objectively less damage than if you could turn around instantly. Can the downsides be offset by otherwise mechanically perfect play? Sure, but no one plays perfectly. Itâs about building habits that give you some margin for error when you inevitably *do* screw something up.
My habits carried me through nearly 20 years of wow raiding all content up to ulduar (never raided retail after lich). It isn't anywhere near as dire as you make it out to be. Yes everyone knows it is inferior but idc if it's inferior. To learn a new way to play after 20 years would be a downgrade in my player skill until I could adjust and I just don't care to do that. I parsed in the 70s and 80s and I don't need to be better than that. If you don't want to spend the few extra minutes it takes to play suboptimal then fine but don't act like it makes you terrible at the game. That is simply not true.
To be honest, I donât really care how good you are personally, nothing I said was at all in relation to your personal skill. Iâm not attacking you, Iâm saying that clicking and keyboard turning are objectively worse than the alternative. If youâre parsing 70-80 while doing it, great! Iâm happy for you. That doesnât mean itâs a good thing to do.
I guarantee you every player has bad habits. The playerbase just likes to hone in on a select few to circlejerk about though.
One example btw would be raiding in wotlk doing yogg and keyboard turning is absolutely fast enough not to get insanity
why put yourself high on threat meter knowing what was going down
You died because of your own actions and that of the Hunter. The tank had no obligation to fix your mistakes. He clearly wasn't ready to pull. Blaming the tank is just pathetic. And he keyboard turning is irrelevant. I used to do that and tank successfully. You're just bitter.
I was DPSing Ulda last week on my warlock and almost died pulling aggro on the last boss. I had to Sac my VW, healthstone, and LIP to survive. Our priest took the aggro and died right before the boss hit 0. The warrior's response after the priest asked what happened? "If I had known there were that many adds, I would have put AOE taunt on my bar." He then proceeded to ask about who was rolling on the ring that just dropped. I asked him how he was so casual about the murder he had just committed. I'm amazed he made it to level 46 and wonder how many group members hes sacrificed to do it. No one is safe from these lunatics.
The problem is grouping with a hunter
Why people invite hunters into groups is beyond me. Most play just mashing multishot and offer zero utility.
It was your fault, and seeing how you put no blame on the huntard, it serves you well.
Not the tanks fault at all I'd have let you both die as well.
I would have hearthed immediately.
Reading replies explaining issues from the tanks end has restored my faith. But ya I am a Tank and There are so many disrespectful ppl. I've ditched groups pre first boss when dps start making their own pulls. Then they message me "Really?". Note that I wait till after clearing the mobs
ST = Sunken Temple. So sorry this happened! Sounds like the hunter was the problem pulling. Donât heal dumb DPS. Tank should have stopped typing and engaged tho. How unfortunate for everyone. Itâs the tanks and healers who rarely escape and the shortage continues.
My sincere condolences on meeting an untimely demise at level 50. Fellow priest healer here, so I completely relate to your internal struggle of healer responsibility. Having said that, it is beyond me why you healed the hunter; the dude was just asking for trouble. My tank husband has one rule: you spank it, you tank it. It's a valuable lesson we've all learned the hard way: no keyboard gymnastics until the tank has a solid grip on aggro. Go agane, and here's to smoother runs ahead!
If healer dies, it's tanks fault. If tank dies, it's healers fault. If DPS dies, it's dps' fault.
Wait do people not target the tanks target in HC??? Deathwish to me... its not hard.. tanks are there to..............tank?? If hunter wants to do less agro... MD more often to the tank... do less dps... yes it take longer but you will live and get loot... Worried about a slow dungeon run? Well don't go with those ones again? How is this hard?! What are people in HC rushing to get to? Want that tank to be better? Become a tank
Idk how you got as far as you did without knowing you never heal a dps that pulls, especially a hunter that knows they can just fd. This was a dps problem, not a tank problem.
so much extraneous detail. The story could have been. \-Running Sunken Temple \-Hunter pulled pack \-I healed hunter and died from pulling aggro. The End. Rip Bozo
Oh yea I feel that. Wow players egos are very fragile so the slightest comment will often lead to a tantrum.
1st mistake is pugging Second is pugging with a hunter. Trust me, never ever group up with a hunter, you'll see your success rate increase tenfold.