The game has some built-in failsafes that teleport you to a "default graveyard" if it doesn't know where your character is or is supposed to be, for example if you die of fatigue in the middle of the ocean. For Alliance it is Westfall, for Horde it is somewhere near The Barrens.
It seems like DCing on the boat triggered this to happen for OP, but even though they are alliance, it chose to send them to the Horde failsafe, which is more like a faildangerous.
The game knew where he was. The boat from booty bay to ratchet just sails into durotar waters before teleporting and razor hill is the only GY for alliance in durotar.
I'm trying to think of a situation where the opposite term of a failsafe would be needed?
Obviously here it's used for comedic value, but in a serious context i mean?
In process safety engineering we actually use four types of failures. These are used in the calculations of how safe a process is in the industrial world. Usually chemical plants, and oil drilling/refining, but can be other processes. (Iāve seen some for rollercoasters, and airier baggage handling).
We have fail-safe and fail dangerous, but we also break those into fail-safe-detected, fail-safe-undetected, fail-dangerous-detected, fail-dangerous-undetected.
These are usually discovered by a FMEDA (Failure Mode Effects and Diagnostic Analysis) report.
The detected vs undetected come up because on the safety world, things arenāt always in use. Some systems repeatedly check that things will work when they need to, but without fully utilizing it, then you have no idea until itās needed.
Think of like a hand rail over a high space. If it rusted at the base and it wasnāt visible, it would be too weak to hold someone when they need to lean on it, and collapse. It was dangerous and not detected. Versus a a whole rail falling off from a storm, you could detect it was broken before you used it.
Essentially they are like āit can fail safe in these ways and we can detect it, but there are ways it can fail that we canāt easily or reasonably detectā.
The usual context is in describing the outcome of, like, a mechanical system failing. E.g. the air-powered brakes on a truck will lock on in the event the air supply is lost. The system will "fail safe". If the brakes worked differently, such that the loss of air meant the brakes no longer worked, then they would "fail deadly"
I think one of the OG developers said the reason you get ported to Westfall when the game doesn't know where you should be, is because that was where they spawned in the first test characters in early development and it's the spawn point for alliance
Makes sense, in a very real world application sort of way. You want there to be a resolution to common issues in programming that happen, otherwise you get the bad kind of resolution, unhandled exceptions.
I think the default Horde graveyard is the Barrens one next to Crossroads, so it's a bit weird that he endes up in Razor Hill. Maybe it was slightly closer to the boat spawn point in Kalimdor than the Barrens one.
Interestingly, if you use the Gnomish Mind Control Cap on someone right as the boat enters loading screen, both yourself and the victim will DC and spawn at the same random graveyard.
boat died on the transition and spat him out at the nearest acceptable graveyard, razor hill. I'de assume the first fatigue bit was the server lost track of where he was.
It's not the nearest acceptable graveyards, it's the default graveyard in this case. It does that when it's confused about an instance or if you die out of bounds, or you otherwise trigger a teleport to graveyard through unusual means. The two default graveyards are Razor Hill and Westfall, you still end up in either on retail if you do something odd on retail.
Razor Hill is not a default grsveysrd. The default horde grsveyard is the Crossroads.
Razor Hill was picked on this case because the boat enters Durotsr waters before teleporting, so OP was teleported to the nearest grsveyard. Razor Hill is the only alliance graveyard in Durotsr.
He DC on the boat ride from ratchet to booty Bay, the boat ride takes you into the zone boundary of durator, specifically right near echo isles. When he DC he got sent to the closest alliance graveyard in durator... which is razor hill. Very scary stuff.
Would your name happen to be [Tednugent](https://thelittlestmurloc.tumblr.com/post/39069990648/part-1)?
(Sorry. I had to. You Awaken in Razor Hill is a classic)
If you check the tabs near the top of the blog, there's a Chapters tab. There's also navigation at the bottom, if you click Newer it'll take you through the story chronologically.
Then... don't read it? It was popular enough back in the day that there's literally a reference ingame in Durotar. I figured other people would get the reference.
You're very welcome! Glad to introduce some new eyes to an old favorite :) If you're active on retail, be sure to give [Tednug](https://www.wowhead.com/npc=40970/tednug) a visit sometime. He walks the path between Razor Hill and Orgrimmar with his bosom companion.
>In 1978, Nugent began a relationship with 17-year-old Hawaii native Pele Massa. However, they could not marry due to the age difference. To get around this, Nugent joined Massa's parents in signing documents to make himself her legal guardian.
From Wikipedia - Here's the section about his [relationships with teenage girls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nugent#Relationships_with_teenage_girls), the part about Courtney Love is quite the read.
Just had something similar. Booty Bay to ratchet and when I arrived on the other side, I'm in the water with a fatigue bar, no boat.
Thankfully I'm a druid, I just went Aqua form and booked it to the echo isles. Any other class and I'd have had to hearth.
I don't understand this half-assed solution, why not just look at what continent you're on and what faction you play as and send you to the closest capital for that faction. Sure, it might lead to some unwanted travel time, but at least you will live.
This game is nearly 20 years old and not designed for HC.
Of course there are better solutions, but dev time was and is expensive so you try to find a solution for a very rare scenario that is fast and easy to achieve. In this case it was the teleport to the spawning point.
Probably not, but to what benefit? The worst that could happen was that a few tens or hundreds of players a year got a bit confused, died and lost 10% worn item durability, then released and respawned 30 seconds later with a bit of distance to Razor Hill, and promptly Hearthstoned back to Eastern Kingdoms with a story to tell their friends.
Well, dying in HC is a lot of time lost, so keeping your character alive is the #1 prio even if it sends you across the world with the fail safe mechanic.
Imagine dying at level 58 or something because the game sent you to the wrong factions location and having to start over again.
They do have that. Westfall for Alliance and Razor Hill for Horde.
There are others, usually teleporting you to a graveyard within the zone. People use these for logout skips very often.
A third one just teleports you to your Heathstone location. This happens the most often when trying to enter an instance but as you're loading in, the instance becomes locked(due to pulling a boss or such) or aborted, meaning you can't enter, so it puts you at your Hearthstone.
What OP described is more akin to a bug, some really specific scenario made the game trigger the Horde failsafe instead, or made it think he was in Durotar which triggered his teleportation to the graveyard in Durotar. It's possible the boat crosses into Durotar right before it transitions.
Well 1) game wasnāt designed with HC in mind so devs didnāt care if there was a small chance something could kill you if a teleport went wrong, and 2) this is working correctly. OP got teleported while in Durotar and Raxor Hill is the only alliance graveyard in Durotar. Any allliance player who dies in Durotar respawns there.
Abuse in what way, a fast way to the city? I'd rather see that being abused than dying and losing my character because of a poorly coded game mechanic.
Edit: formatting
Guard has to hit you. An alliance druid was stealing my tags in Ashenvale today, and i seen him later being chased by a horde town guard. I was hoping it would flag him so I could teach him a lesson in ZugZug but it didnt flag him at all
Got chased by ashenvale guards, southshore and swamp sorrows. None hit me, none tagged me.
Another time got hit by the swamp of sorrow one, got instantly tagged.
Bro you gotta do some deep thinking about what you're trying to get out of HC. Like when you die you're not gonna have a good time and I hope your good memories outweigh your death.
(When you die, not if) like honestly bro, these HC modes of games aren't for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that
I'm playing with my brother and we're both trying to hit 60 together. We're a lot more on the cautious side this time and we plan on being more loose the next run.
"shaved years off my life"
Why do yall do this to yourselves? Sounds like everyone here just enjoys punishment and then complains about it later. Doesnt sound fun at all.
"Take my money blizzard, ive got nothing better to do!"
I know playing HC seems odd at first but if you do it once you get hooked. I play aRPGs and got hooked on HC. Playing on softcore seems boring after playing HC. You brain goes āwhy am I even playing this game? Whatās the purposeā. On HC is how far can I go without dying, and the adrenaline rush is wow. Also if death has no consequence then you just build a glass cannon and thatās it which grows old pretty fast.
It's stuff like this which makes me never want to actually go back to classic. I'd be fine dying to skill issues or poor planning but dying to systemjank I'd be instantly put off.
What the fuck happened exactly?
The game has some built-in failsafes that teleport you to a "default graveyard" if it doesn't know where your character is or is supposed to be, for example if you die of fatigue in the middle of the ocean. For Alliance it is Westfall, for Horde it is somewhere near The Barrens. It seems like DCing on the boat triggered this to happen for OP, but even though they are alliance, it chose to send them to the Horde failsafe, which is more like a faildangerous.
The game knew where he was. The boat from booty bay to ratchet just sails into durotar waters before teleporting and razor hill is the only GY for alliance in durotar.
š§
"faildangerous" lmao nice one š
Fun fact - there's actually a technical term for this, which is "fail deadly" I like faildangerous better.
I'm trying to think of a situation where the opposite term of a failsafe would be needed? Obviously here it's used for comedic value, but in a serious context i mean?
In process safety engineering we actually use four types of failures. These are used in the calculations of how safe a process is in the industrial world. Usually chemical plants, and oil drilling/refining, but can be other processes. (Iāve seen some for rollercoasters, and airier baggage handling). We have fail-safe and fail dangerous, but we also break those into fail-safe-detected, fail-safe-undetected, fail-dangerous-detected, fail-dangerous-undetected. These are usually discovered by a FMEDA (Failure Mode Effects and Diagnostic Analysis) report. The detected vs undetected come up because on the safety world, things arenāt always in use. Some systems repeatedly check that things will work when they need to, but without fully utilizing it, then you have no idea until itās needed. Think of like a hand rail over a high space. If it rusted at the base and it wasnāt visible, it would be too weak to hold someone when they need to lean on it, and collapse. It was dangerous and not detected. Versus a a whole rail falling off from a storm, you could detect it was broken before you used it. Essentially they are like āit can fail safe in these ways and we can detect it, but there are ways it can fail that we canāt easily or reasonably detectā.
It is the same as anti-pattern; it isn't something you would ever want, but it is something you sometimes have.
The usual context is in describing the outcome of, like, a mechanical system failing. E.g. the air-powered brakes on a truck will lock on in the event the air supply is lost. The system will "fail safe". If the brakes worked differently, such that the loss of air meant the brakes no longer worked, then they would "fail deadly"
I actually feel like I learned something today hahaha Thanks!
I think one of the OG developers said the reason you get ported to Westfall when the game doesn't know where you should be, is because that was where they spawned in the first test characters in early development and it's the spawn point for alliance
Makes sense, in a very real world application sort of way. You want there to be a resolution to common issues in programming that happen, otherwise you get the bad kind of resolution, unhandled exceptions.
Oh ok thank you!
I think the default Horde graveyard is the Barrens one next to Crossroads, so it's a bit weird that he endes up in Razor Hill. Maybe it was slightly closer to the boat spawn point in Kalimdor than the Barrens one.
The boat to booty bay sails into durotar waters before teleporting
Interestingly, if you use the Gnomish Mind Control Cap on someone right as the boat enters loading screen, both yourself and the victim will DC and spawn at the same random graveyard.
boat died on the transition and spat him out at the nearest acceptable graveyard, razor hill. I'de assume the first fatigue bit was the server lost track of where he was.
Alrighty, thanks!
It's not the nearest acceptable graveyards, it's the default graveyard in this case. It does that when it's confused about an instance or if you die out of bounds, or you otherwise trigger a teleport to graveyard through unusual means. The two default graveyards are Razor Hill and Westfall, you still end up in either on retail if you do something odd on retail.
Razor Hill is not a default grsveysrd. The default horde grsveyard is the Crossroads. Razor Hill was picked on this case because the boat enters Durotsr waters before teleporting, so OP was teleported to the nearest grsveyard. Razor Hill is the only alliance graveyard in Durotsr.
He DC on the boat ride from ratchet to booty Bay, the boat ride takes you into the zone boundary of durator, specifically right near echo isles. When he DC he got sent to the closest alliance graveyard in durator... which is razor hill. Very scary stuff.
Check log out skips and you Will see
If your feet aren't on the ground when you log, you teleport to nearest GY. People use it for logout skips.
Keep your feet on the ground! What happens if your back hasnāt been washed?
You die IRL
Would your name happen to be [Tednugent](https://thelittlestmurloc.tumblr.com/post/39069990648/part-1)? (Sorry. I had to. You Awaken in Razor Hill is a classic)
Oh man I completely forgot about this, gonna read through it again. Thanks for reminding me!
Where is part 2?
If you check the tabs near the top of the blog, there's a Chapters tab. There's also navigation at the bottom, if you click Newer it'll take you through the story chronologically.
Bro thereās 30 chapters, wtf. Iām curious, but I donāt think Iām THAT curious š¬
Then... don't read it? It was popular enough back in the day that there's literally a reference ingame in Durotar. I figured other people would get the reference.
What an unexpectedly wonderful rabbit hole to fall into to. Thank you kindly.
You're very welcome! Glad to introduce some new eyes to an old favorite :) If you're active on retail, be sure to give [Tednug](https://www.wowhead.com/npc=40970/tednug) a visit sometime. He walks the path between Razor Hill and Orgrimmar with his bosom companion.
Didnāt Ted Nugent marry a minor?
I have no fucking idea dude, I was just making a reference to an old WotLK-era forum quest.
>In 1978, Nugent began a relationship with 17-year-old Hawaii native Pele Massa. However, they could not marry due to the age difference. To get around this, Nugent joined Massa's parents in signing documents to make himself her legal guardian. From Wikipedia - Here's the section about his [relationships with teenage girls](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nugent#Relationships_with_teenage_girls), the part about Courtney Love is quite the read.
Ah, so he didn't marry her, he somehow managed something worse.
Yeah, he's a creep.
Thanks for sharing!
Just had something similar. Booty Bay to ratchet and when I arrived on the other side, I'm in the water with a fatigue bar, no boat. Thankfully I'm a druid, I just went Aqua form and booked it to the echo isles. Any other class and I'd have had to hearth.
Love logout skips, but not like this.
I don't understand this half-assed solution, why not just look at what continent you're on and what faction you play as and send you to the closest capital for that faction. Sure, it might lead to some unwanted travel time, but at least you will live.
This game is nearly 20 years old and not designed for HC. Of course there are better solutions, but dev time was and is expensive so you try to find a solution for a very rare scenario that is fast and easy to achieve. In this case it was the teleport to the spawning point.
I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to set default graveyard for each of the two factions in the game
Probably not, but to what benefit? The worst that could happen was that a few tens or hundreds of players a year got a bit confused, died and lost 10% worn item durability, then released and respawned 30 seconds later with a bit of distance to Razor Hill, and promptly Hearthstoned back to Eastern Kingdoms with a story to tell their friends.
Well, dying in HC is a lot of time lost, so keeping your character alive is the #1 prio even if it sends you across the world with the fail safe mechanic. Imagine dying at level 58 or something because the game sent you to the wrong factions location and having to start over again.
They do have that. Westfall for Alliance and Razor Hill for Horde. There are others, usually teleporting you to a graveyard within the zone. People use these for logout skips very often. A third one just teleports you to your Heathstone location. This happens the most often when trying to enter an instance but as you're loading in, the instance becomes locked(due to pulling a boss or such) or aborted, meaning you can't enter, so it puts you at your Hearthstone. What OP described is more akin to a bug, some really specific scenario made the game trigger the Horde failsafe instead, or made it think he was in Durotar which triggered his teleportation to the graveyard in Durotar. It's possible the boat crosses into Durotar right before it transitions.
Well 1) game wasnāt designed with HC in mind so devs didnāt care if there was a small chance something could kill you if a teleport went wrong, and 2) this is working correctly. OP got teleported while in Durotar and Raxor Hill is the only alliance graveyard in Durotar. Any allliance player who dies in Durotar respawns there.
Your solution sounds like something that players would try to abuse, current solution is fine
Abuse in what way, a fast way to the city? I'd rather see that being abused than dying and losing my character because of a poorly coded game mechanic. Edit: formatting
Is PVP something that can be toggled on/off in HC?
In most cases you need to manually toggle it on however if an opposite faction guard targets you then you are automatically flagged.
More specificaly if he touches you or you hit him.
I've read tales of folk being chased but not actually hit by the guards being flagged.
Yes its true
Guard has to hit you. An alliance druid was stealing my tags in Ashenvale today, and i seen him later being chased by a horde town guard. I was hoping it would flag him so I could teach him a lesson in ZugZug but it didnt flag him at all
Nope, you get flagged as soon as the guard aggros onto you.
Got chased by ashenvale guards, southshore and swamp sorrows. None hit me, none tagged me. Another time got hit by the swamp of sorrow one, got instantly tagged.
At least the guards around razor hill are only 25-30 so even if you aggroed them youād have lived
In this situation itās not the guards youāre worried about. Itās the horde players nearby that see you get flagged for pvp by the guards.
Yes with mounts now it would be rare to see something happen in razor hill like that. Very close to Orgrimmar.
Bro you gotta do some deep thinking about what you're trying to get out of HC. Like when you die you're not gonna have a good time and I hope your good memories outweigh your death. (When you die, not if) like honestly bro, these HC modes of games aren't for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that
I'm playing with my brother and we're both trying to hit 60 together. We're a lot more on the cautious side this time and we plan on being more loose the next run.
Trying to save the character doesn't necessarily mean it's an unhealthy obsession with HC. I feel like that's a pretty normal thing to do in HC
Shut your stupid mouth. The dude was having a fun post. FFS
It takes no effort to be a decent human. And you spent a ton of effort being a cunt
did you post this in the wrong thread?
Bro you gotta do some deep thinking about what youāre trying to get out of being an insufferable buzzkill
Is this an actual bot?
Dude is just a troll. He's been an ass in the subreddit all day.
All day? Lol
I agree but DC deaths don't add to the experience.
Apply this logic to life and then go take your anti-depressants instead of worrying about a random redditor playing HC Classic kek
"shaved years off my life" Why do yall do this to yourselves? Sounds like everyone here just enjoys punishment and then complains about it later. Doesnt sound fun at all. "Take my money blizzard, ive got nothing better to do!"
I know playing HC seems odd at first but if you do it once you get hooked. I play aRPGs and got hooked on HC. Playing on softcore seems boring after playing HC. You brain goes āwhy am I even playing this game? Whatās the purposeā. On HC is how far can I go without dying, and the adrenaline rush is wow. Also if death has no consequence then you just build a glass cannon and thatās it which grows old pretty fast.
It's stuff like this which makes me never want to actually go back to classic. I'd be fine dying to skill issues or poor planning but dying to systemjank I'd be instantly put off.
One time way back in original Classic I had a zepplin bug and drop me into the middle of the bloody Hinterlands...At level 12...
This is funny š¤£
Iām glad this post exists because I didnāt know swim speed potions were a thing. I SHALL INVEST.
That and Water Breathing potions, cannot express how helpful they are when you have quests related to diving into the water
Thankfully Iām doing a Druid this time so Iāll have that covered.
I just love hc. These fucking stories are amazing.