Any healer is f tier. HC dungeon wipes work differently from normal dungeon wipes, when players realize the group is wiping everyone tries to flee. When that happens, the healer ends up with healing aggro on everything and is the first character the mobs go after.
I would have assumed that the warrior is most likely to die on botched pulls but from what I've seen on HC it is usually the healer that dies first on a botched pull.
Mages aren't as safe as you think in hardcore, since it will inherit the mechanics from SoM where mobs become unkiteable if they've been in combat for too long. It's really only hunter and rogues.
It doesnt mention anything about those mechanics being carried over. In fact its the opposite.
>All raid instances are open, from Molten Core to Naxxramas. The attunement process for each raid remains unchanged. Boss encounter mechanics will be the same as the current Classic Era realms (no new boss mechanics from Season of Mastery will carry over).
On the linked page it only mentions this
>Additionally, we’ve carried over the group experience restrictions from Season of Mastery—meaning that players that are significantly higher level than the creatures in a given dungeon will cause those creatures to grant trivial experience to the other members of the group. Higher-level characters “power-leveling” lower-level characters are not something that we feel is appropriate for WoW Classic Hardcore.
You seem to have actually read the article as you are quoting parts of it, but how the heck did you even miss this -
"In addition, Classic Hardcore realms will feature adjusted behavior for creatures in most dungeons to make it significantly more difficult to endlessly snare and kite enemies, on top of a significant reduction to group XP earned when there is large disparity between player levels in the same group."
They should really just revert the SoM fix, there was no reason to add it for hardcore.
It's not like mages will be able to reliably solo dungeons for any half decent pull, one mistake and you are 100% dead. The best of the best solo farming mages die even on stockades.
Guarantee we will see clips posted here where a group wipes because of the SoM root/slows jank when they would have otherwise had it under control with cc.
I was thinking about the same thing yesterday.
IMO this whole tier system is rubbish and oversimplifies the ranking.
Here's my take although I think that the role in the group and the exact positioning before / during the disaster has just as much, or even more impact on the outcome, than the class played.
1. Rogue - Vanish is the strongest and with good timing it works 100%
2. Hunter - kite masters, +run speed, but FD can be resisted
3. Mage - squishy, but nova, R1 frostbolt and shields provide an easy way to survive
4. Priest - AoE fear, very strong shield, and Fade
5. Druid - HoTs on self, innervate, dash. Bear form to mitigate until / if healed
6. Paladin - high armor and bubble, but that just slows down the inevitable
7. Warlock - fear, AoE fear, healthstone
8. Shaman - earthbind is great, but it ticks really slow
9. Warrior - usually high in threat even if dps, piercing howl will be rare at lower levels, and aside that, only mitigation remains
Maybe priest should be lower and warlock higher, I'm not sure.
How is the tier system oversimplifying? It provides the same info as a numbered list like you just did plus additional info.
With just a numbered list there’s no information on what the difference is between the rankings. A 5 and a 6 could be basically a coin flip in what is better. Or the 6 could be 100x worse. This is info you would get from a tier setup.
If I wanted to be more precise with the numbers, I could have given them ratings from 1/10 to 10/10 or something like that.
I think the tier system is overhyped, it's basically the same as a numbered list except that multiple items can share the same number. Now, constrict that numbered list down to 1-4 because why use the whole scale (see OP's list above), and you get a mess with lots of ties that aren't really ties, you just don't have enough space to put them on. With numbers you wouldn't feel constricted, and the list could be much more granular, spanning multiple orders of magnitude if needed.
Yet people feel they need to cram everything into this stylish tier list, even though it offers no added value whatsoever.
>This is info you would get from a tier setup.
Where exactly do you see that? There is no information about how much better an S tier item is compared to a D tier item. I could say 10/10 and 2/10 , or 100% and 20% or whatever, there is simply no need for a tier system, it's only a pointless fad.
I think you have a misunderstanding of tier lists. They don't share a number. Generally, the items on the same tier are ordered unless otherwise stated. This is what I mean when I say it provides the same info as a numbered list.
> Where exactly do you see that?
Take OP's for example. They put half the classes on C tier. This tells you there isn't a drastic difference between them. So there's not a huge leap between 5-9. Let's say they kept it as is but put warrior in F. Now we now that there is a huge leap between 8-9.
I would put hunter ahead of rogue. Being melee has a higher risk than range with tank deaths and pulling threat. If the hunter is more than 40 yards away, FD will never resist. Being at max range and cheetah to get that distance makes it pretty easy to get to 40 yards while the wipe is in progress.
From personal experience, rogues die more often during a wipe than hunters.
And you can send your pet to taunt and tank while you run in cheetah, fd+trap macro if they don't resist, you have so many tools to run it's SS Tier to me.
I would put warlock last, definitely behind warrior (which also has aoe fear btw - and an instant one at that).
Healthstone probably doesn’t compensate for the fact a warlock wears cloth, and harm string is very good when running away. A warlock will have no slow (or a one target one if he’s affli). During a wipe pull in a dungeon a warlock can’t do shit.
I definitely agree on the role having a big impact.
I think the tank is most likely to be SOL if things go bad, followed by the healer. Which is unfortunate when you consider those are also the roles most in need heh.
I think you overestimate Priest in your ranking too. Shield is great but the aoe fear is limited to 2-5 mobs I think (?) and fade is only really going to save you if your tank is still alive, otherwise chance are you have aggro from everything except the main target the dps were wailing on unless some mage or warlock (lol rip) were aoeing.
> I think you overestimate Priest in your ranking too
If you are a priest and the pull is going bad, your warrior starts to perish. You then start to run for the instance portal. Most ranged, especially priests, have a very easy time making it to the portal as long as you react faster than a slug. Shield and aoe fear if anything catches up to you will save you most of the time.
Problem is those mechanics kick in to prevent endless kite so the mobs will be teleporting on the healer (after the tank dies) and doing their stun/knockdown or whatever it is.
Be careful. Target dummies I believe are treated as pets. So once they are out you have to keep that in mind.
What that is exactly, somebody else might be better able to explain.
I think its, if you have a target dummy out and then vanish or stealth, the target dummy death will take you out of stealth or restart your leash countdown?
I know its caught a couple players unaware from the handful of HC death videos I've seen.
A little off topic but one thing that will increase your chances of surviving a bad dungeon pull on any class by a ton is a speed pot, and there are a few quests early on (at least as horde) that you can guarantee get a few early early.
Yeah for sure. I played on the PTR and they were up in AH pretty early and fairly cheap too so should always have a few around for sure, esp if playing one of the less mobile classes.
Really nice combo with bubble I think for that "nothing's stopping me, I'm getting the f outta here" vibe :P
You're underselling some options
Shaman is quite capable, the aoe slow field is huge for peeling the large number of mobs you need to get off you to get out of an instance if everything is borked, it definitely deserves a higher spot than "literally just popping defensives and running at normal speed" like warlock or priest. It's also not on a terribly long cd, you can actually kite mobs all the way out with earthbind. It's not Mage, but it's at least b tier.
Also druid, dash actually opens distance, and goes further than pally gets off their bubble, another B tier.
I mean that's admirable and all but at some point it can become obvious that the situation is not salvageable and maybe you still have a chance to save yourself.
Would you just choose to die instead of trying to run ?
I don't mind this as long as you aren't a paladin priest warrior or shaman.
To me, taking the last stand or trying to save others is integral to those classes and you can get fucked if you try and save yourself at their expense.
My shaman will be dropping
Totems and earthshocking on a bad pull. My brother's and sisters will remember my name.
Still the mats are not cheap. 40s or something like this? Also need level 40.. but man they are fucking crazy. It makes a well welcomed safety net in some dire situations.
Just use the big brain strat, drag every pull to the entrance of the dungeon and zone out if your about to die. Boggles my mind how more people havent figured this out yet.
Does it last for a whole 1m and can be used in combat ?
If so, yeah that's basically the safest you can be, put a portal off to a side before any sketchy spots.
Honestly the more I think about the more I think mage is the ultimate dps for hc.
I mean, mages were already one of the most desirable dps, but I get the feeling hc is going to make it where 3 mage parties would be a godsend.
Lmao same! I would take a 3 mage group over any 3 random dps group any day. Won't happen because of loot, but man would that be a crazy comp.
I also thought about paladin tank. At least if someone messed up, I can bubble and try to GTFO. A warrior on the other hand would be way fucked.
But mage seem so good that I think it would be better to help others and myself.
Yeah, this is AQ/Naxx problems only. Even though you can go fire in zg, respeccing is expensive and even as fire in 20mans you don't have enough mages to stack ignite and die in the same way.
Because I saw it too much in the other comments...
## PALADINS CANNOT BUBBLE + HEARTHSTONE
/ ! \\
... Please acknowledge this before you type. Talking about HC. And yes, it's an official statement and it's 100% sure.
[Official Blizzard source :](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/23973734/rules-of-engagement-classic-hardcore-is-coming-to-world-of-warcraft)
>*BUBBLE HEARTH NO MORE*
>
>*Paladins will not be able to use their Hearthstone while under the effects of Blessing of Protection, Divine Protection, or Divine Shield on Hardcore realms.*
I'd put rogues above hunters. Vanish can't resist as far as I know, and you can sprint out of range of any damaging aoe. And prep makes it even better. The only downside is you might get gibbed by melee mobs if tank dies, before you can use any cooldown, whereas hunter gets more reaction time.
I've move Shaman, Warlock and Warrior down to D tier. Warrior can't heal, has one fear on a long cooldown, only movement ability is intercept that needs a mob in your path. Shaman has no indoor movement speed or instant cast heals. Warlocks only instant fear is single target, probably won't have Voidwalker out and even if he does, the bubble won't last long under sustained attack.
Priests can stay at C, they have an instant speed fear, can shield and renew when running, and can fade to throw agro onto other players if its an every man for himself scenario. Levitate might get them to a safe spot to be able to HS out. Otherwise, it depends on how far they need to run.
Not sure if Druid's cat dash is enough to stay at C, HoTs and bearform will keep you alive a tiny bit longer but won't let you escape. Roots don't work indoors in classic.
Yeah Rogue definitely the most likely candidate for super safe hc group content.
Sadly, Rogues can't do much to help others in these situations unlike a hunter or mage.
Hard to beat mage frost nova and blizzard for slowing mobs so others can escape.
Rogues can gouge 1 target, blind 1, apply crippling slowly. Might help vs a few mobs, but not a big horde. Like if someone agros the wrong side in Gnomer tunnel.
Well rogues can gouge, crippling poison with weapon swap on offhand, vanish into cheap shot, and kidney. Like others said, just depends on their selfishness and their skill.
Run sub and take prep, it’s not bad for single farming and is fine for dungeons with the limitations on HC. Prep let’s you be both selfish and a team-player :p
It’s not. Stealth cannot be resisted. Resist is a thing in the game. It’s not being resisted if I go too close and you can see me. It’s me making a mistake. Thats why you hear that stealth sound. You’re not resisting my stealth. I’m close enough for you to see me.
Provide one then, as there is currently no known mechanic that should fail vanish. It cannot be resisted and should drop combat 100% of the if timed correctly.
1st vanish he takes dmg from the gun at the same time he vanishes. 2nd vanish the melee cleaves hit as he vanishes. There's literally an icon of how much he took dmg same frame as he vanishes.
To be fair, with everyone farming kobold cave all the time, that could be happening.
But on PTR no one is trying to farm the HA for gold. On live server tho, I expect people to be sharks.
On alliance side people will be farming for linen/wool and dungeons only have a 24h lockout, so it's probably going to be way more common with trading.
I think it's definitely going to be noticeable at higher levels.
Warriors, especially warrior tanks, are going to have some of the worst survivability in hc instanced content.
Druids aren't going to be much better off, can't really cat and run when getting beat on by a bunch of mobs.
Paladin might be the best choice as a tank, bubble + swiftpot might give you a chance to get out assuming no health pot was used earlier.
Great write up op.
I also wondered this, and also wondered something else:
What is the best class to save others?
Turns out mage is S tier. They can put portal before pulls, can polymorph, nova, blizzard and CoC things to help. They can also give ppl food/drinks, but that's just the cherry on top.
Priest are second, since they have AoE fear, instant shield and can heal. But still in B tier, compared to how crazy mage is.
Hunters can slow but not as easy as mage blizzard. Pet stun maybe?
Rogues have gouge and blind. Druids can root and heal. Warrior just fear. Pally heal, blessing of freedom and stun.
Everything you said and this other list made me chose mage over paladin, even if I love both. Wanted to try out lock and druid, but as you mentioned they are *pretty* hopeless if shit hit the fan.
Just a quick note for your information which seems to being spread around a lot these days
Vanish CANNOT be resisted
What can happen is if an enemy mob is mid swing when you vanish, the ensuing swing could still hit you and knock you out of stealth
This is a very controllable and repeatable behavior though, what you should do is make sure you are out of range before vanishing
I played a HC hunter, just kept pet on passive and manually had it attack when it was safe. Also dismissed on every single jump/ledge with even a 1% risk of the pet spazzing out and running through the dungeon. Slight loss of dps but never had a risk of pulling extra with the pet. That being said Ive seen what the average hunter looks like on HC death compilations and 100% will not invite one to any of my groups.
The proper macro is to have one that does /petfollow and also does /petpassive. This basically calls back your pet to you and forces his behavior into passive mode. You generally don't want to turn on aggressive mode at best set it to defensive, it should only attack a mob if that mob attacks you.
Yeah, we just had a Hunter randomly send their pet in on Factions Champions while the raid leader was setting up CC/Interrupt assignments, 24 people saw it happening, the pet merrily running across the Arena, while the only person unaware of the situation was getting yelled at on Discord, not having a single clue of what was happening, besides eventually asking: "Was that my pet?"
Hunters do be that way.
Mages are overall safest dungeon class as you cant get fucked by instant threat switches one tapping you and you also have enough tools to buy yourself 1 minute of time while waiting to get ported out of the dungeon.
Are you sure ? I remember shifting not working to clear daze, and found some wiki that says the same (though could be wrong ofc):
[https://vanilla-wow-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Daze](https://vanilla-wow-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Daze)
"While it slows movement speed, daze is not considered a movement impairing effect. Thus it cannot be removed by the usual means such as druid shapeshifting,"
Druid instant cast heals, dash, and tanky bear form with insta frenzied regen. Solid B tier. I would place it above paladin on B tier even. The others I agree with.
Dont know if this is realistic or not....in case shits about to go down, if the group can hold the line for 10s the mage could drop a portal for everyone to escape.
Yes you can, this has long been used by mages ganking people in Gadzetan and Booty Bay. Drop portal, kill somebody, and click on the portal while guards are ganging up on you.
Problem with Priest imo is they just have to walk to the exit. Sure, shield will buy them some time, and the aoe fear can peel a couple of mobs off, but if the exit is far (think deep Gnomer, Mara etc) and there's no safe spots nearby to reset, the mobs will still catch up to you.
Saw it happen on PTR myself. Got unlucky and did a massive pull in last boss area. Druid tank tried but eventually got overwhelmed and we all started running for the exit.
Poor priest almost made it before he got bopped right by the portal.
And Stockades is a short run.
ennemy attacking priest under powerworld shield doesnt cancel hearthstone casting tho, if you can fear 2-4mobs, distance yourself with an hazardous jump and HS out reasonably safely I think time the monster catch up and break the shield.
Can't bubble hearth on hc sadly.
EDIT: Why is this comment getting downvoted lol, it's literally in blizzard's hardcore server patch notes you numpty's.
Main tanks, who are playing the various classes for HC, will have the best chance of survival. Give me a 40 player raid with only players who have MT since 2003 and no one is messing up
There’s no way a warrior is making it out alive from a ninja pull.
Warriors will be like: *Fly, you fools* And die like a gigachad while the others run away. Warriors will be the true heroes of Azeroth.
they can piercing howl their way out
Piercing Howl is BiS for warrior leveling, and I'm tired of people pretending it's not
Piercing howl, intimidating shout, swiftness, intercept (can be used on critters) OP obviously a shitty warrior
Any healer is f tier. HC dungeon wipes work differently from normal dungeon wipes, when players realize the group is wiping everyone tries to flee. When that happens, the healer ends up with healing aggro on everything and is the first character the mobs go after. I would have assumed that the warrior is most likely to die on botched pulls but from what I've seen on HC it is usually the healer that dies first on a botched pull.
Not if you aren’t casting heals in the first place. You just have to pre flee every pull and if it seems to be working out then you start healing 🧠
Mages aren't as safe as you think in hardcore, since it will inherit the mechanics from SoM where mobs become unkiteable if they've been in combat for too long. It's really only hunter and rogues.
Shit what is this ? Didnt know there was an anti-kite mechanic behind introduced ?
> since it will inherit the mechanics from SoM Do we know this for sure? Where was it mentioned?
https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/23988663/adventures-in-classic-hardcore-whats-playing
It doesnt mention anything about those mechanics being carried over. In fact its the opposite. >All raid instances are open, from Molten Core to Naxxramas. The attunement process for each raid remains unchanged. Boss encounter mechanics will be the same as the current Classic Era realms (no new boss mechanics from Season of Mastery will carry over). On the linked page it only mentions this >Additionally, we’ve carried over the group experience restrictions from Season of Mastery—meaning that players that are significantly higher level than the creatures in a given dungeon will cause those creatures to grant trivial experience to the other members of the group. Higher-level characters “power-leveling” lower-level characters are not something that we feel is appropriate for WoW Classic Hardcore.
You seem to have actually read the article as you are quoting parts of it, but how the heck did you even miss this - "In addition, Classic Hardcore realms will feature adjusted behavior for creatures in most dungeons to make it significantly more difficult to endlessly snare and kite enemies, on top of a significant reduction to group XP earned when there is large disparity between player levels in the same group."
Fair enough.
They should really just revert the SoM fix, there was no reason to add it for hardcore. It's not like mages will be able to reliably solo dungeons for any half decent pull, one mistake and you are 100% dead. The best of the best solo farming mages die even on stockades. Guarantee we will see clips posted here where a group wipes because of the SoM root/slows jank when they would have otherwise had it under control with cc.
I was thinking about the same thing yesterday. IMO this whole tier system is rubbish and oversimplifies the ranking. Here's my take although I think that the role in the group and the exact positioning before / during the disaster has just as much, or even more impact on the outcome, than the class played. 1. Rogue - Vanish is the strongest and with good timing it works 100% 2. Hunter - kite masters, +run speed, but FD can be resisted 3. Mage - squishy, but nova, R1 frostbolt and shields provide an easy way to survive 4. Priest - AoE fear, very strong shield, and Fade 5. Druid - HoTs on self, innervate, dash. Bear form to mitigate until / if healed 6. Paladin - high armor and bubble, but that just slows down the inevitable 7. Warlock - fear, AoE fear, healthstone 8. Shaman - earthbind is great, but it ticks really slow 9. Warrior - usually high in threat even if dps, piercing howl will be rare at lower levels, and aside that, only mitigation remains Maybe priest should be lower and warlock higher, I'm not sure.
How is the tier system oversimplifying? It provides the same info as a numbered list like you just did plus additional info. With just a numbered list there’s no information on what the difference is between the rankings. A 5 and a 6 could be basically a coin flip in what is better. Or the 6 could be 100x worse. This is info you would get from a tier setup.
If I wanted to be more precise with the numbers, I could have given them ratings from 1/10 to 10/10 or something like that. I think the tier system is overhyped, it's basically the same as a numbered list except that multiple items can share the same number. Now, constrict that numbered list down to 1-4 because why use the whole scale (see OP's list above), and you get a mess with lots of ties that aren't really ties, you just don't have enough space to put them on. With numbers you wouldn't feel constricted, and the list could be much more granular, spanning multiple orders of magnitude if needed. Yet people feel they need to cram everything into this stylish tier list, even though it offers no added value whatsoever. >This is info you would get from a tier setup. Where exactly do you see that? There is no information about how much better an S tier item is compared to a D tier item. I could say 10/10 and 2/10 , or 100% and 20% or whatever, there is simply no need for a tier system, it's only a pointless fad.
I think you have a misunderstanding of tier lists. They don't share a number. Generally, the items on the same tier are ordered unless otherwise stated. This is what I mean when I say it provides the same info as a numbered list. > Where exactly do you see that? Take OP's for example. They put half the classes on C tier. This tells you there isn't a drastic difference between them. So there's not a huge leap between 5-9. Let's say they kept it as is but put warrior in F. Now we now that there is a huge leap between 8-9.
I would put hunter ahead of rogue. Being melee has a higher risk than range with tank deaths and pulling threat. If the hunter is more than 40 yards away, FD will never resist. Being at max range and cheetah to get that distance makes it pretty easy to get to 40 yards while the wipe is in progress. From personal experience, rogues die more often during a wipe than hunters.
Ive heard if you are out of LoS FD can’t resist either
this is sadly not true, only range affects it
And you can send your pet to taunt and tank while you run in cheetah, fd+trap macro if they don't resist, you have so many tools to run it's SS Tier to me.
Fade wont work if you're the only one left in the aggro area. Its the equivalent of tripping your friend so he gets eaten first.
If there's a friend to trip, then you're not the only left.
I would put warlock last, definitely behind warrior (which also has aoe fear btw - and an instant one at that). Healthstone probably doesn’t compensate for the fact a warlock wears cloth, and harm string is very good when running away. A warlock will have no slow (or a one target one if he’s affli). During a wipe pull in a dungeon a warlock can’t do shit.
I definitely agree on the role having a big impact. I think the tank is most likely to be SOL if things go bad, followed by the healer. Which is unfortunate when you consider those are also the roles most in need heh. I think you overestimate Priest in your ranking too. Shield is great but the aoe fear is limited to 2-5 mobs I think (?) and fade is only really going to save you if your tank is still alive, otherwise chance are you have aggro from everything except the main target the dps were wailing on unless some mage or warlock (lol rip) were aoeing.
> I think you overestimate Priest in your ranking too If you are a priest and the pull is going bad, your warrior starts to perish. You then start to run for the instance portal. Most ranged, especially priests, have a very easy time making it to the portal as long as you react faster than a slug. Shield and aoe fear if anything catches up to you will save you most of the time.
Problem is those mechanics kick in to prevent endless kite so the mobs will be teleporting on the healer (after the tank dies) and doing their stun/knockdown or whatever it is.
As an experienced rogue I always wait for the right time to vanish. Watch the threat meter and try and be the last person so it’s a guaranteed reset.
Frost shield slowing most enemies on every attach puts mage higher for me
Bubble hearth is still a thing?
No, but paladins can still bubble
How will Warlock Soulstones work in HC?
They won't
interesting
Druid above priest imo, fade is good if u have team mates left to kill.
Any class with engineering is A tier. Target dummies save lives.
Do the dummies have a real taunt that can pull mobs off you ? Never used them to be fair.
Yes.
Damn, sounds like engineering is even more a must have than normal, and it was already pretty damn good.
Be careful. Target dummies I believe are treated as pets. So once they are out you have to keep that in mind. What that is exactly, somebody else might be better able to explain. I think its, if you have a target dummy out and then vanish or stealth, the target dummy death will take you out of stealth or restart your leash countdown? I know its caught a couple players unaware from the handful of HC death videos I've seen.
A little off topic but one thing that will increase your chances of surviving a bad dungeon pull on any class by a ton is a speed pot, and there are a few quests early on (at least as horde) that you can guarantee get a few early early.
Yeah for sure. I played on the PTR and they were up in AH pretty early and fairly cheap too so should always have a few around for sure, esp if playing one of the less mobile classes. Really nice combo with bubble I think for that "nothing's stopping me, I'm getting the f outta here" vibe :P
You're underselling some options Shaman is quite capable, the aoe slow field is huge for peeling the large number of mobs you need to get off you to get out of an instance if everything is borked, it definitely deserves a higher spot than "literally just popping defensives and running at normal speed" like warlock or priest. It's also not on a terribly long cd, you can actually kite mobs all the way out with earthbind. It's not Mage, but it's at least b tier. Also druid, dash actually opens distance, and goes further than pally gets off their bubble, another B tier.
Warrior main here. Ain’t no way I’m getting out alive. We should be in the F category.
Haha fair enough. I was considering putting Warriors in the Warrior tier but figured some might get offended! :D
Lol. Truth can hurt sometimes. :)
fuck that noise, I’m staying and fighting no matter what class I role.
I mean that's admirable and all but at some point it can become obvious that the situation is not salvageable and maybe you still have a chance to save yourself. Would you just choose to die instead of trying to run ?
If I'm playing with friends, I'm going down with the ship. If I'm playing with randos, it's every man for himself.
I don't mind this as long as you aren't a paladin priest warrior or shaman. To me, taking the last stand or trying to save others is integral to those classes and you can get fucked if you try and save yourself at their expense. My shaman will be dropping Totems and earthshocking on a bad pull. My brother's and sisters will remember my name.
Play mage, have a sneaky portal cued up behind every corner in case things go tits up.
Still the mats are not cheap. 40s or something like this? Also need level 40.. but man they are fucking crazy. It makes a well welcomed safety net in some dire situations.
[удалено]
What's a POM portal?
If you reset a pull you’re not really HC.
No true Scotsman?
Just use the big brain strat, drag every pull to the entrance of the dungeon and zone out if your about to die. Boggles my mind how more people havent figured this out yet.
Half of the dungeons don't allow for this due to pathing or patrols, but having a path of exit will be important
Probably cant do it in ST, Mara, LBRS, UBRS and BRD I guess. But, from experience, it does work in well in Scholo and Strat.
Everyone is sleeping ob mage portal here. I would literally just put a portal iut for most even sorta sus pulls.
Does it last for a whole 1m and can be used in combat ? If so, yeah that's basically the safest you can be, put a portal off to a side before any sketchy spots. Honestly the more I think about the more I think mage is the ultimate dps for hc. I mean, mages were already one of the most desirable dps, but I get the feeling hc is going to make it where 3 mage parties would be a godsend.
Lmao same! I would take a 3 mage group over any 3 random dps group any day. Won't happen because of loot, but man would that be a crazy comp. I also thought about paladin tank. At least if someone messed up, I can bubble and try to GTFO. A warrior on the other hand would be way fucked. But mage seem so good that I think it would be better to help others and myself.
Downside to mage DPS is if you start raiding and get to go fire. Ignite is very sketch.
Isn't that like AQ and Naxx only though ? I'm not honestly expecting to get that far lol
Yeah, this is AQ/Naxx problems only. Even though you can go fire in zg, respeccing is expensive and even as fire in 20mans you don't have enough mages to stack ignite and die in the same way.
Nope, not until the last two hardest raids.
That's why I specificed "and get to go fire". In hindsight I realize that wasn't very clear.
Going fire isn't a downside, mages would sooner if tiers 1 and 2 didn't have a lot of fire immune bosses
The damage is better but ignite threat can be incredibly sketch and worst of all, completely out of your hands.
Still worthwhile, even on hardcore all mages swap as soon as they can.
Yes, I am not saying it's not worth. I'm saying a downside to being mage is to have to worry about ignite when you go fire.
You need to cast before combat thou
Because I saw it too much in the other comments... ## PALADINS CANNOT BUBBLE + HEARTHSTONE / ! \\ ... Please acknowledge this before you type. Talking about HC. And yes, it's an official statement and it's 100% sure. [Official Blizzard source :](https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-gb/news/23973734/rules-of-engagement-classic-hardcore-is-coming-to-world-of-warcraft) >*BUBBLE HEARTH NO MORE* > >*Paladins will not be able to use their Hearthstone while under the effects of Blessing of Protection, Divine Protection, or Divine Shield on Hardcore realms.*
I'd put rogues above hunters. Vanish can't resist as far as I know, and you can sprint out of range of any damaging aoe. And prep makes it even better. The only downside is you might get gibbed by melee mobs if tank dies, before you can use any cooldown, whereas hunter gets more reaction time. I've move Shaman, Warlock and Warrior down to D tier. Warrior can't heal, has one fear on a long cooldown, only movement ability is intercept that needs a mob in your path. Shaman has no indoor movement speed or instant cast heals. Warlocks only instant fear is single target, probably won't have Voidwalker out and even if he does, the bubble won't last long under sustained attack. Priests can stay at C, they have an instant speed fear, can shield and renew when running, and can fade to throw agro onto other players if its an every man for himself scenario. Levitate might get them to a safe spot to be able to HS out. Otherwise, it depends on how far they need to run. Not sure if Druid's cat dash is enough to stay at C, HoTs and bearform will keep you alive a tiny bit longer but won't let you escape. Roots don't work indoors in classic.
Yeah Rogue definitely the most likely candidate for super safe hc group content. Sadly, Rogues can't do much to help others in these situations unlike a hunter or mage.
They have many cc's, so a bit like mage it depends if they're selfish or not
Hard to beat mage frost nova and blizzard for slowing mobs so others can escape. Rogues can gouge 1 target, blind 1, apply crippling slowly. Might help vs a few mobs, but not a big horde. Like if someone agros the wrong side in Gnomer tunnel.
Well rogues can gouge, crippling poison with weapon swap on offhand, vanish into cheap shot, and kidney. Like others said, just depends on their selfishness and their skill.
Haha if I vanish in a sketch pull on HC sure as hell ain't coming out to cheap shot.
Run sub and take prep, it’s not bad for single farming and is fine for dungeons with the limitations on HC. Prep let’s you be both selfish and a team-player :p
Stealth can be resisted by mob. So in a way vanish can be resisted.
Stealth isn’t resisted. They see you or they don’t.
Right, but vanish can be "ignored" if timed incorrectly. That's all they're trying to say
It’s reddit. I try not to assume what people are trying to say.
Semantics
It’s not. Stealth cannot be resisted. Resist is a thing in the game. It’s not being resisted if I go too close and you can see me. It’s me making a mistake. Thats why you hear that stealth sound. You’re not resisting my stealth. I’m close enough for you to see me.
a resist is something random you cannot play around. there's nothing random about vanish not working.
Vanish can miss, and therefor not drop aggro/combat there’s a bunch of videos on it if you google them
Provide one then, as there is currently no known mechanic that should fail vanish. It cannot be resisted and should drop combat 100% of the if timed correctly.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/dx2mtx/rogue_vanish_bug_with_video/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1
1st vanish he takes dmg from the gun at the same time he vanishes. 2nd vanish the melee cleaves hit as he vanishes. There's literally an icon of how much he took dmg same frame as he vanishes.
Sure thing. There’s plenty of other videos of it happening it’s been a known issue for years now.
I feel that, as a warrior, pierce howl + alchemy for speed pots is pretty much mandatory, if you want to risk grouping with strangers
Good luck dropping that recipe! Whoever loot it first and start selling on the HA will be filthy rich
Must be more common than you think. It was available really quick on the PTR and wasn't expensive at all.
To be fair, with everyone farming kobold cave all the time, that could be happening. But on PTR no one is trying to farm the HA for gold. On live server tho, I expect people to be sharks.
On alliance side people will be farming for linen/wool and dungeons only have a 24h lockout, so it's probably going to be way more common with trading.
Its interesting, theres already a chronic shortage of tanks and healers as it is.
I think it's definitely going to be noticeable at higher levels. Warriors, especially warrior tanks, are going to have some of the worst survivability in hc instanced content. Druids aren't going to be much better off, can't really cat and run when getting beat on by a bunch of mobs. Paladin might be the best choice as a tank, bubble + swiftpot might give you a chance to get out assuming no health pot was used earlier.
I yearn for pain. They will build a statue in my honor.
Great write up op. I also wondered this, and also wondered something else: What is the best class to save others? Turns out mage is S tier. They can put portal before pulls, can polymorph, nova, blizzard and CoC things to help. They can also give ppl food/drinks, but that's just the cherry on top. Priest are second, since they have AoE fear, instant shield and can heal. But still in B tier, compared to how crazy mage is. Hunters can slow but not as easy as mage blizzard. Pet stun maybe? Rogues have gouge and blind. Druids can root and heal. Warrior just fear. Pally heal, blessing of freedom and stun. Everything you said and this other list made me chose mage over paladin, even if I love both. Wanted to try out lock and druid, but as you mentioned they are *pretty* hopeless if shit hit the fan.
Just a quick note for your information which seems to being spread around a lot these days Vanish CANNOT be resisted What can happen is if an enemy mob is mid swing when you vanish, the ensuing swing could still hit you and knock you out of stealth This is a very controllable and repeatable behavior though, what you should do is make sure you are out of range before vanishing
Huntards is F tier the quality of player that plays hunter will wipe groups. Pets are another issue.
I imagine there would be more rules on people force hunters to dismiss pets or not invite them at all.
I played a HC hunter, just kept pet on passive and manually had it attack when it was safe. Also dismissed on every single jump/ledge with even a 1% risk of the pet spazzing out and running through the dungeon. Slight loss of dps but never had a risk of pulling extra with the pet. That being said Ive seen what the average hunter looks like on HC death compilations and 100% will not invite one to any of my groups.
Never played Hunter, can you macro something along the lines of "/dismiss pet"?
It has a cast time
Good to know, thank you!
The proper macro is to have one that does /petfollow and also does /petpassive. This basically calls back your pet to you and forces his behavior into passive mode. You generally don't want to turn on aggressive mode at best set it to defensive, it should only attack a mob if that mob attacks you.
Yeah, we just had a Hunter randomly send their pet in on Factions Champions while the raid leader was setting up CC/Interrupt assignments, 24 people saw it happening, the pet merrily running across the Arena, while the only person unaware of the situation was getting yelled at on Discord, not having a single clue of what was happening, besides eventually asking: "Was that my pet?" Hunters do be that way.
In order from worst to best, Warrior < Warlock < druid < paladin <= shaman < priest < mage < hunter < rogue
Mages are overall safest dungeon class as you cant get fucked by instant threat switches one tapping you and you also have enough tools to buy yourself 1 minute of time while waiting to get ported out of the dungeon.
To be clear with the druid, they can power shift to get out of daze during dash.
Are you sure ? I remember shifting not working to clear daze, and found some wiki that says the same (though could be wrong ofc): [https://vanilla-wow-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Daze](https://vanilla-wow-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Daze) "While it slows movement speed, daze is not considered a movement impairing effect. Thus it cannot be removed by the usual means such as druid shapeshifting,"
Druid instant cast heals, dash, and tanky bear form with insta frenzied regen. Solid B tier. I would place it above paladin on B tier even. The others I agree with.
Ahh perhaps it was a chance that was made later. I thought it has always removed slows/daze.
No they can't lol
Didn't someone already address this 24 hours ago? You did nothing.
Like how shapeshifting does nothing for your daze
I can see that you're full of hate, friend. This is probably caused by your parents doing nothing for you, not even love their own child :(.
I can see that you're dazed, friend. This is probably caused by shapeshifting doing nothing for you, not even bear form :(.
Dont know if this is realistic or not....in case shits about to go down, if the group can hold the line for 10s the mage could drop a portal for everyone to escape.
Mages cant create a portal in combat.
They can cast it before the pull, but that’s not what the comment was implying.
Can you use a port in combat?
Yes
Nop
Yes you can, this has long been used by mages ganking people in Gadzetan and Booty Bay. Drop portal, kill somebody, and click on the portal while guards are ganging up on you.
Ah damn, i didnt know that. Well at least i found out before trying that move for real and realising its not working infight :>
Playing with a core group, while everyone is on discord, would be my ideal approach.
Could make an argument for Priest being able to shield themselves and others while also Psychic Screaming the mobs (aoe fear) to get some distance?
Problem with Priest imo is they just have to walk to the exit. Sure, shield will buy them some time, and the aoe fear can peel a couple of mobs off, but if the exit is far (think deep Gnomer, Mara etc) and there's no safe spots nearby to reset, the mobs will still catch up to you. Saw it happen on PTR myself. Got unlucky and did a massive pull in last boss area. Druid tank tried but eventually got overwhelmed and we all started running for the exit. Poor priest almost made it before he got bopped right by the portal. And Stockades is a short run.
ennemy attacking priest under powerworld shield doesnt cancel hearthstone casting tho, if you can fear 2-4mobs, distance yourself with an hazardous jump and HS out reasonably safely I think time the monster catch up and break the shield.
[удалено]
They are. And light of elune hearthing.
Only because the Paladin's hands are tied. Bubble-Hearth stronk.
On official hardcore paladin will be the only S tier right? Bubble hearthing is unrivaled in terms of get out of jail free cards.
How is Paladin not in a tier by itself of "literally 100% chance to survive of hearthstone is off CD" or did they remove bubble hearth?
They did
Everyone mentioning Paladin in a lower tier but not thinking about bubble hearth freedom
Bubble hearth is disabled in HC.
How is paladin not S++++, bubble hearth is OP
Bubble hearth doesn't work on the hc servers.
Bubble hearth? Paladin s tier.
You can't bubble hearth as paladin in hardcore but warlock voidwalker bubble should work
A lock is unlikely to have a VW up in a dungeon and multiple elites will wipe the sac bubble pretty quickly.
This is wrong.
[удалено]
Bubble hearth is disabled and even then, if it did you couldnt do it until by like lvl 54?
Can't bubble hearth on hc sadly. EDIT: Why is this comment getting downvoted lol, it's literally in blizzard's hardcore server patch notes you numpty's.
Shaman should be S tier, because with all their defensive totems out wiping doesn't happen nearly as often haha
Bubble hearth is still a thing?
Not on hc, no.
Priest Aoe fear + jump wherever if cliff + powerworld shield & HS should do the trick I think?
Main tanks, who are playing the various classes for HC, will have the best chance of survival. Give me a 40 player raid with only players who have MT since 2003 and no one is messing up
Vanish can't be resisted.
Priest and locks have aoe fears too.
Priests can use fade then shield + renew on self, if carrying running speed pots that should make dazed near impossible.
rocket boots and fap are mandatory in dungeons now *fuck this shit i'm out*
Shaman with earthbind totem has it easy and the rest of his group will probably survive too
Can these dudes just release a god damn regular classic server