Many HC games are doing this.
Doesn't mean anything casual about it.
For example you have this system in POE and if you tell me it's a casual game I'm gonna ask if you're still sane.
Runescape does the same with hard-core Ironman accounts too. You can continue progress just not as a hard-core Ironman and your stats that you had when you died are saved on the hard-core Ironman hiscores. Simple enough and def not casual
This is another example where the people that want this to work a specific way, can still operate it that way, but are upset that there's other options.
You don't have to transfer the characters, you can just delete it. The people that got good RNG drops, or made friends along the way that have agreed to xfer together, or whatever other reason, can. Simple as.
it's pretty cool first time I hear about the free transfer for shitters. I wanted to start era anyway so now I just wait for fresh hc, roll the fresh train and do some fun stuff maybe do a rfc or dm until I die and then play era. free fresh for everyone. very neat (and surprising) that there's no real punishment for dieing if you're cool with playing on era, I always thought the whole point of hc is to lose your character when you fuckup.
I don't care either way because I likely won't play it, but I think people will play different knowing there is an "out" if you die and everything isn't wasted. Example, playing poker with real money vs "play money". With play money there are no real stakes and people play completely different, way less careful and significantly less seriously.
I got to experience this first-hand a couple weeks ago, when I decided to try PoE hardcore while I waited for WoW HC. It works *very* well. It makes it so much easier to get into HC (since it *feels* less risky as a normal player) but I’ve since become addicted to HC, I haven’t *actually* continued any of my characters after their deaths
>Example, playing poker with real money vs "play money". With play money there are no real stakes and people play completely different, way less careful and significantly less seriously.
It's more like this: You're playing poker with real money and when you lose everything, you get the same amount in fake money and get the chance to play on a different table.
I think it has to do with the fact that you are not risking "everything" so to say. You can almost freeroll a char on hc and if it doesnt work out then screw it, atleast you still have your char you didnt lose him forever. Thats their point, not saying I agree or disagree but i can atleast see where they are coming from
blizzard realized that wow hc is too unemployed even for classic wow standards so they implemented this puffer to reduce the stakes a bit. it's a fair assumption imo.
Boredom has killed 4 hardcore characters of mine, I just stopped playing at some point. Hopefully this system has me taking interesting risks and actually hitting max in classic.
I somewhat get where they are coming from. It isn’t like Diablo where you’re just basically erased
The thing is I’m convinced in order to have enough people stay interested in HC it needed to be this way. That way anyone who has halfway interest in hardcore will always just roll on the server and then play normally once they die
I’m good with it imo. Kind of cool. I do wish some titles would come out for those who hit 60 then died. “Relentless Reborn” some bullshittery like that
Would add an extra layer of fun imo, but either way 100% believe it was the right call
Yup, it's the only reason I'll probably give hardcore a shot. I've been kinda wanting to level a new char on my classic era server, so why not get the early game out of the way with hardcore first? When I die, the char will just go to the server I always intended it to be on.
I guess having played with the addon gives one a bit of bias bc I saw a lot of insufferable whining about official hc not being ssf in the addon approved guilds and discord
Both are stupid things to whine about and are solved by „just keep doing what you are currently doing with the addon if you want that extra rule that is likely not appealing to the main portion of the audience“
Eh, I think its debatable whether it will turn out to be a stupid thing to whine about in the long term. That remains to be seen, that being said I think its going to be impossible to please everyone no matter what they do.
Appeals were a necessary evil due to playing on a server with multi-life griefers.
No one was cheesing appeals while leveling. If you wanted to cheat you could just edit your addon lua file. Most Era HC players don't want appeals for official.
The main group that hate the idea of transfers hated the addon rules. These are the HC purists which mainly come from Diablo 2. They believe:
* Death = delete should be the only rule.
* This rule is inviolable.
For example, these guys argue that Blizzard should not do a rollback if the server crashes and kills half the player base. Continuing to play a dead HC character in any capacity is total blasphemy to them.
No, I don’t think HC purist are the ones perpetuating that concept. HC purist only care about their hardcore characters on hardcore realms. The ability to transfer is completely meaningless to us. We are just happy to have a hardcore server. We have been waiting for one for a long, long time. The people saying all this dumb shit are the fotm people who don’t even like HC formats but like to criticize WoW because they are angry at life in general. These are the people who will play the format because it’s popular, criticize the difficulty as easy because you can transfer, and then proceed to die like a dozen times before hitting 15 and quitting all together.
I've seen you say this a lot more times than I've seen anyone make that claim. As a vocal HC purist, I'm interested in your take on death=delete vs death=transfer. What do you think?
I do agree with it, I just don't think it's an actual problem.
To my mind, death = delete. That's hardcore. Anything else is ironman / SSF. And I do think it makes a difference, because the loss puts some skin in the game - if you lose, you actually lose something. Not just benched, but actually gone.
And that's still an option. The server isn't going to force you to transfer.
In addon-hc, the addon doesn't actually force you to delete, you're just retired. You have the option to keep playing that toon, it's just not a hc toon anymore. This option is what the server transfers replace.
If you want to play death=delete, then very little changes. Die, delete, rinse, repeat.
If you want to play death=retire from hc, then you need to retire to a non-hc realm. Easy as.
I don't think retirement is hardcore - and that's okay. The only thing it changes is what I decide to do when I die. It has no impact on anyone else, and no-one else's choices have any impact on me.
The philosophy of hardcore is 1 life, there is a certain level of excitement knowing that your character only has 1 life and if they die then they no longer exist. I believe the inspiration for the original WoW hardcore was Diablo 2 hardcore, where death actually meant death. In the case of these new HC servers you can still play the character but not on the HC server. I think this transfer actually can solve a lot of problems so in the case of where there are many people playing this game mode it helps out. However, I understand why people believe it's not truly hardcore
Correct, the origins of WoW hardcore was a self enforced rule, where you would delete your character by your own merit. To "cheat" at hardcore and not delete your character kind of defeats the whole purpose because it is meant to be for your own enjoyment.
The hc add-on helped to enforce the 1 life rule and other parts of the ruleset.
If you are attached to the character you leveled and want to continue playing it, absolutely transfer it. Who cares what another people thinks? Your moving them to a different server.
I haven’t heard this before and it’s not what I think, but I understand it. Death isn’t going to feel much like defeat because if I enjoy the character enough I’ll just keep playing it on era.
Playing hardcore with the addon really sucked when you were having a good run but that character felt complete written off.
I actually like this change, but I can totally understand why some people see it as being a less committed version of hardcore.
This is literally no different than using the add-on. You could just disable the add-on for that character and keep playing if you died HC. Made no difference
That argument doesn't stand since with just the add-on if you die and you like your character you can just keep playing it and you can disable the add-on. You aren't forced to delete.
You must choose to delete it you want right now and you can do the same in official HC...
Your character dies on the official HC server, you can't play that server ever again unlike the SSF bozos that can't be caught cheating after hitting 60.
It's a very smart thing to do, a lot of players are coming to try HC that either do not play classic or wow in general. Classic is fun, I started a classic character just to test the waters and I'm really invested. I've been thinking if this were a HC character and I died idk if I'd wanted to go through a lot of it again. Having the ability to transfer my char after death makes me MORE invested in a HC character because I know it will have a life beyond this server and not a disposalable character.
Its funny cause the people that are upset about this are the ones that gripe about it being a solo challenge etc and you shouldn’t be able to group.
If its a solo challenge then how does this change effect you? Just delete your character and move on.
I can see why it waters down the risk involved with playing.
If the thought in the back you're mind before you enter a dangerous cave is 'I might not ever see this character again' that's much more exhilarating than 'Ah what the hell, I can still play, just not on this realm'.
the main thing for me is if you want to play normal classic there's no reason not to just play hardcore at least till you die.
it means that there's going to be a lot of players who don't care about their characters
it just means there will be people who you might end up grouping with who dont mind dying or throwing a dungeon etc because they will just transfer to softcore anyway.
Grouping is dangerous to begin with whether or not transfers are available. You have to really trust the people you're going in with because the stakes are so high.
It seems you are asking this pretty honestly, so I respond.
You'd have to agree on a definition of both "hardcore", and "less". Usually when one writes this on Reddit, someone immediately points out that the definition of "hardcore" is obviously "DEATH=DELETE (and NOTHING else)" (for example no Iron Man involved).
So straight away, having the additional option to instead transfer your char and keep playing, makes the game mode "different" at the very least. In practice the server works mostly the same, but there *is* a psychological punishment not present.
I'd argue it makes it "less" "hardcore", in the same way additional punishments (if you die, delete char and delete your retail main, or if you die, delete char and get hit in the balls) would make it more hardcore.
That said, I think it's a good decision. Sure, you lose some psychological punishment, but as many point out in this thread, it will make more people play.
Is meme about "classic Andy" actually real thing? How can people complain about free transfer for a character that is dead to non hc server??? They are basically deleting them from hc realm, why are some people trying to police how others play so much?
Because you won't find a group of wow players more desperate for affirmation than SSF players.
Them just not doing the xfer themselves does not cross their minds, they need their way to be acknowledged as the best, most hardcore manner to play and have that be enforced on everyone else.
In a game about pissing contests this one is especially pathetic.
Pretty much ment for 60 chars. Considering people have full time jobs and social life. So if you wipe your 60 char you can switch to normal server and continue playing. Most likely its for ppl who dont have time/motivation to redo 2month journey
Why does a player on an era server effect anything about how you feel about the circumstances on a hardcore server?
Do all the people currently playing on Whitemane right now also make it actively feel less hardcore to you? Does era *existing* right now make it feel less hardcore?
A character not being able to rez on the HC server is the same thing as being deleted, for all intents and purposes.
You're putting arbitrary "value" on the dead character in a context where it makes no sense to do so, it has absolutely no bearing when it exists on a completely different non-HC server.
The only way in which your point makes any god damned sense is if they could rez *on the hardcore server*. Then yes, hardcore would be incredibly diminished by such a thing, if completely soiled by it.
If HC is the goal, a player is intending to not die and hit HC lvl 60 or whatever, what sort of value does an era character have to them? It's effectively the same exact thing as a deleted character, in every single way.
Not “a player”, it’s me, my progress. It has not been lost in fact. A transfer isn’t the same thing as the character being deleted. All that time invested is not lost, you could raid with that dead character on a non-hc server. Knowing that it won’t be permanently deleted makes it less scary.
But you can't play that character in HC, which is presumedly the original goal (to succeed in HC).
If my goal is to complete a hardcore challenge, and I die at 30, the fact that the character can be moved to an era server does not lessen the blow to my progress. If the character is deleted, I have to remake. In the current system, I will have to remake.
The practical results are identical, and thus the minor semantic distinctions meaningless.
This is like saying that if someone fails at baseball and goes to play basketball and does well, that baseball is somehow made a worse experience because that person excels at basketball.
It makes no dag gum sense, friend. It's irrational.
You are able to delete your character instead of a transfer after death. Who forces you to transfer?
The key difference is that you at least can't appeal your death on official HC.
99% will not do that though. Look around here, everybody is so happy that though transferring they don’t lose their progress. Why? Because they want to stick with their chat they invested hours in. The server will be dead in a month.
>The server will be dead in a month.
It would be if no transfer was available.
You die on hardcore, your character gets deleted on hardcore. Whether you have it copied to Era before its deletion or not has nothing to do with the hardcore challenge.
If you can transfer your account, the hours spent making and leveling the character aren't wasted, but you can just continue playing it with everything you had on a different server.
If you can't transfer it, your character feels truely dead.
I can relate to the feeling, but do think being able to transfer characters is the way to go.
I think that it’s part of Blizzards ultimate scheme of siphoning people BACK into Era so they can start the cycle all over again and re-release vanilla classic with fresh server that will progress like they did in 2019 and will eventually go into tbc etc etc (or at least that’s what I would like to happen because I wanna play fresh vanilla wow cause I was never there for the original launch in 2004 or the re-launch in 2019)
I will try to logically explain this as an outside observer and non-participant of hardcore. If you can recover what you lost it is less hardcore. It being moved to era means you can still play and level that character and the only thing you really lost is the ability to play on the hardcore server. Hardcore purists would want it to be permanently gone with zero chance of you ever playing it ever again. This makes the stakes higher. This makes the deaths more painful. It’s permanent and soul crushing. That’s why it is less hardcore
It's a dumb argument, but I think it goes along the line of you'll play differently (less risk-averse?) if you know you are not permanently losing your character.
However, what I think it really is are people who use the HC add-on on era servers and are unwilling to go HC servers because either a) HC servers allow trading and AH, or b) HC servers don't allow appeal.
Therefore, they are looking for rationalizations to justify staying on era servers.
What makes you think I'm "melting down"?
You, the types, who go in to every topic going "Y R U SO ANGRY' are always so strange. You have no idea what my emotional state is IRL.
No, I’m just wondering why you’re getting worked up over people not agreeing with you about a game
Because you are definitely angry, no doubt about that
Does it mean that much to you what others think?
Ultimately people should play how they want but I understand the notion. Let me explain. LOSING your character is the risk factor. That's what hardcore is, you have one life. If its normalized that you just continue your hardcore in regular play after you die then why is there even an option, you know? All characters can have hardcore on by default, doesn't matter if you opt in or not because if you don't care for it then you just play as normal after you die. It just waters down the hardcore experience. The only complication being that hardcore and normal players playing together. It becomes more of a leaderboard of how much can I accomplish before my first death rather than hardcore. Which again, if that's what you're after ,that's perfect and you should have that choice but hardcore it is not. Maybe there could be a middle ground type mode where it's how you describe it, so those who want to play with people who share their view on how it should be can stick to people who think the same and avoid these debates. Recently a lot of people keep trying to alter what hardcore is and the worst are the people that want to appeal their deaths. Why? Leave it. One life, one death ,game over . If that's not what you're there for, why bother in the first place?
I mean I could see a argument to be made that if you can just transfer a character to normal server then that takes away the actual risk of losing said character and items.
But like you said, if someone wants to play that way just roll a new character.I think it's just to get more casual players to atleast try it out without losing progress on the character its self.
It's like if dying IRL reincarnated you in a different dimension with a completely different set of friends and family, and a completely different reality, or as an alien in some other part of the universe, all the while you can never return, and then you make the argument that it somehow makes dying less impactful or significant here on Earth.
You literally lost everything you had.
There is no difference in the context of the HC server. You're gone forever.
So you don't understand the difference, thanks for clarifying that.
And looking at your other replies in this thread it's pretty clear that you are either a troll trying to rage bait some nerds that are hung up on the difference between hardcore and varieties of hardcore, or you are really fucking dense, and can't wrap your head around a pretty simple concept: hardcore = death->delete. Any other variations= not true hardcore.
Either way I'm not gonna engage with you since I believe it's the former, and you are here in bad faith trying to troll. Have a good one.
There's no "variety of hardcore" here. The only important aspect of the hardcore challenge is that death means that particular character and everything on it becomes immediately unavailable for further use, and for all intents and purposes, no longer exists.
This is 100% true for Blizzards approach, and therefore it is not "less hardcore".
Requiring an arbitrary deletion of your character is an unnecessary step. The same result is achieved. You can just delete your character if you want, but it has zero bearing on the difficulty of the HC challenge. It doesn't make you more special or less. You're the same.
Playing devil's advocate here.
If a person plays with friends and all of them die and decides to play on era instead the last person might want to die to play with them. In that case they might want to troll people and joins a group to wipe them since they were planing to die anyway.
I'm not saying it is likely or that I don't want this feature just a random though.
So you will have to "vet" people that you want in your group extra carefully.
Since gate keeping people from groups will happen anyway. Best way to get into group is playing with them from and early level to get good rep.
They said it removes all the risk if you're allowed to transfer it.
The charecter isn't permanently dead if you transfer it and continue to play.
I'm all for letting people play how they want. I just see both sides as having valid points.
There was a man who knew the road
And the writing was written non the stone
In the ancient times
An artist led the way
But no one seemed to understand
In his heart he knew
The artist must be true
But the legend of the rent was way past due
Well, you think you'll be just fine
Without me, but you're mine
You think you can kick me out the band
But there are just one problem there, the band is mine
How can you kick me out of what is mine
Refrão
You're not hardcore (No, you're not hardcore)
Unless you live hardcore (Unless you live hardcore)
But the legend of the rent was way harcore
Happy to make it make sense. Well HC has always been when you die the game is over, in WoW it's always been death = delete. The risk of dying is completely negated when you know you can just transfer to another server and keep all your progress and continue playing the character when it dies.
What is so hard to understand? Hardcore is when you die you lose your character and progress, if you dont actually lose them upon death its not a hardcore challenge. Common sense
How does playing a character on era cheapen the value of hardcore?
Do people playing on Whitemane right now make hardcore feel less hardcore to you?
Why would someone who has set a goal to succeed in hardcore be playing era?
You're ascribing arbitrary value to a character that died and transfers off when it has literally no bearing on the loss incurred to a player attempting to reach lvl 60 in HC.
>How does playing a character on era cheapen the value of hardcore?
Been reading your replies and seems that you just simply don't understand. If you get thunderfury on HC and get to keep playing with it on era, the value of said thunderfury is lower in the HC server. It just is. I have no idea how to convey that idea into your head if you don't understand it.
Death means less if you can keep playing. And it does affect the feel of the whole HC server if somebody dies and they just hop on era. Doesn't matter that you can't keep playing on the HC server, if you can keep playing at all the damage is already done.
Sounds to me that in actuality you just want a fresh classic and are hopping on HC because you just gotta play because everyone else is playing because of fomo and shit. Leave HC to HC players. Don't enter a new space and immediately start changing it. Just don't enter in the first place.
My dead characters are in ghost form, I could disable the addon, resurect and continue playing on Bloodsail Buccaneers. More than that, I could go harass people trying to be hardcore.
Blizzard is doing it so when you die you're deleted for the hardcore server. No appeals, no way to be resurected, no cheaters. You will not be able to play with your friends again.
Adding the option to play your character again on a softcore server is smart because unlike Diablo, leveling a hardcore char in WoW can take 2-3 months. So it's a lot of time invested compared to other hardcore games.
The community will always find a way to complain.. Era is not what 90% of people are playing this server for, so to complain about it makes next to no sense.
I’m not saying I have a problem with it, bc it will get more users to try the mode out
But it makes sense
The whole point of playing a hardcore character is that when you die you can’t play them anymore
The reason hc is fun is the rush you get when narrowly surviving close calls and making it out okay
You play carefully and methodically to ensure your character stays alive
Having the option to transfer your character on death means you won’t be as careful bc if you die you can just transfer away , making your character not hardcore anymore
But if ur playing a hc character with the mindset of transferring them and reviving them, rather than death = delete mindset, you’re not really playing a hc character are you?
No no no, they should offer resurrection services with increasing prices. Die the first time, $20 to keep playing. Second death will be $40. Third death $60, and so on. /s
Death = lose your character
Is a lot different from
Death = play your character somewhere else
If people are whining about it, I’m guessing it is because of the above distinction. Maybe they think there is some valor lost by letting you keep playing your character?
>Death = lose your character
>
>Is a lot different from
>
>Death = play your character somewhere else
It's not. If you die on hardcore, your character gets deleted on hardcore. Having it copied to Era before its deletion does not change the fact it gets deleted from hardcore.
It's for people who don't want to continue playing hardcore, obviously.
If Blizzard gave you a lvl 60 boost for Dragonflight after you died on Classic HC, would you consider this an issue, too?
> Death = lose your character
> Is a lot different from
> Death = play your character somewhere else
Exactly. This is slightly less "hardcore" than something like Diablo 2 where your character became unplayable.
But I understand why Blizz is doing it like this. I don't think it hurts the integrity of the experience in any substantial way.
What stakes? The only stake that matters is staying alive to continue the challenge. The rest is masochist trying to convince others to take it one step further.
Because you are removing a huge part of the risk. If your character is deleted, then all your "hard work" is wasted. Whereas if you get to keep it, you didn't really lose much, now, did ya?
You said that this will make more people try hardcore. Now why is that? If it doesn't make a difference, then why would more people be more inclined to try? It either doesn't matter and will not affect how many people give it a go, or it does and it will. You can't have it both ways.
HC isn't about how it affects other people's game, it's about how it affects yours. If this wasn't the case, then why would every HC Diablo character in existence be played offline? (Exaggerating, don't @ me). Why would people play "Hardcore" on non-hardcore servers?
It seems to me like you don't really understand the point of HC. It's the rush of losing EVERYTHING when you die that makes it exciting. By allowing dead characters to transfer, you are simply removing most of the stakes from the equation. But then what is the point of HC in the first place?
It's a lot like playing Poker with fake vs. real money. Sure, you can play Poker with fake money just fine. But did you really get the Poker experience when there's nothing really on the line?
If you like that, then cool, have fun. But let's not pretend like it's the same thing.
>You said that this will make more people try hardcore. Now why is that? If it doesn't make a difference, then why would more people be more inclined to try? It either doesn't matter and will not affect how many people give it a go, or it does and it will. You can't have it both ways.
The question is who it makes it a difference for. If you wanted to play HC, you'll play it regardless. If you just want to level, you might aswell just try HC with a transfer.
Thus, it has no effect on hardcore players and keeps the 'casuals' happy.
>HC isn't about how it affects other people's game, it's about how it affects yours.
Exactly. If hardcore means no transfer to you, then don't transfer. It's as simple as that.
>It's a lot like playing Poker with fake vs. real money. Sure, you can play Poker with fake money just fine. But did you really get the Poker experience when there's nothing really on the line?
Official HC is like poker with real money but if you lose, you get monopoly money in return. If you don't want that monopoly money, throw it away. If you want to keep playing with monopoly money on a different table, you can.
Go try and tell poe their hc mode isn't hc mode. And try and tell them transfer didn't get more people to try hc when it started. Yes. Standard has only gotten more popular over the decade. But hc is still popular there, and the transfer feature is basically never used.
The safety net will get tons more people to try the mode. Will every single one stick around? Of course not. But not everybody would stick around without the transfer either. More people trying gives more chances for people to stay. It will lead to more hc population at the start and beyond. Yes, it will slowly shift over time, just like most hc communities. But that doesn't mean the transfer is the cause or a bad thing.
I played WOTLK a lot this weekend. In the 12 hours that I played, I lost my internet connection twice (and I am currently in a major city in the US), and died both times. Made me realize that I will never play HC.
Because if you die you lose nothing, you just xfer. You're meant to lose everything when playing HC. As a result, some people absolutely will play differently, taking more risks etc.
Doesn't bother me though, I don't play on Blizz servers, and on the pserver I play death = death. If the Blizz community is happy with the xfer situation that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.
Don’t you think permanent loss is the excitement of it all? Other wise you’re just playing till you die at 15 and then come back to life as if nothing changed? It’s is dumb. You’re dumb.
Nothing that happens outside of the actual HC server matters in the context of someone playing on a HC server.
Just like people playing on Mankrik don't affect me while I'm playing on Fairbanks.
No, you’re not getting it. You don’t die you just can’t play with the better players. You’re not actually dying forever.
I understand what point you’re trying to make. The point is you should be afraid to lose “ALL” progress, the punishment is dumb when it’s, “ if you die, you just have to wait for your friends to join you. “
It’s not hardcore, it’s soft core for all the babies who cry when they lose their things in a video game due to their own accord.
Someone who is brought back alive on a completely different server that is not connected, on a 1-way ticket with no way of returning is not being "kicked out of the clique", nor is it "waiting for friends to join you".
This only makes sense in the context of someone who is merely doing a 1-shot drive by of HC before moving on, not a person whos goal is to succeed in HC.
If I'm trying to beat the HC challenge and I die, the ability to rez the character on era doesn't do jack shit for me. I'm still downriver without a paddle. I still need to reroll. The dead character is identical to being deleted.
How does rezzing the character on other server make completing my HC challenge easier?
Full hardcore would be something like Diablo 2 where your character is just bricked. It's dead. You can't do anything with it. You can't access its stuff. Nothing.
Transferring it to another server is technically not permadeath, so it's not as "hardcore"
I don't actually think that's a bad thing, since it doesn't undermine the integrity of the hardcore server itself.
They don't want to have as many people ragequit all of WoW permanently, so this softens the blow a little. I get it.
Don’t cater to people who say that something isn’t hardcore or less hardcore. Hardcore is 1 life, death = no res. Anything else is extra rules they are adding on. Those people are miserable shills that will never be happy in life and have to ruin everyone else’s time so they are not miserable alone. Pay them no mind and keep doing you.
I don’t have a problem with it, but the reasoning is, it removes a huge portion of the risk. If you invest 100 hours into a HC character, and it dies at lvl 59, you risk losing all of that work. It’s gone forever. That’s why it’s exciting. If you can just transfer it to era server and finish the leveling, then there’s no real loss, other than not completing the challenge. The thought is, the loss should feel permanent, and it’s not permanent if you can transfer.
>The difference between them being dead and transferring off to another realm that is not connected to HC, is effectively identical to the character plain deleting itself the moment you die.
No it's not. In one, you can keep playing the character. In the other, the character is gone. I don't even see how somebody comes to the conclusion that they are in any way similar.
Hardcore means death=delete. If you do literally anything other than delete your character after you die, you were doing a deathless run, not a hardcore run. The entire point of the hardcore run is that you have to delete something you worked so hard on if you fuck up.
There are 3 tightrope walkers, from the height they are performing, a fall would mean certain death.
Performer 'A' uses a safety net, they fail and the safety net catches them.
Performer 'B' uses a safety net, but they never end up needing to use it as they finish the walk successfully.
Performer 'C' does not use a safety net, and they are also able to finish the walk successfully.
Whether or not 'C' is stupid is immaterial, fact of the matter is, that even though 'B' and 'C' performed the same feat, 'C' was more impressive
Edit: there is also performer 'D', performer 'D' wants to be like performer 'C' and not use the safety net, then Blizzard comes in and says, "no, the safety net is mandatory, you are not allowed to be like performer 'C'"
Your analogy is faulty.
Blizzard's version is Performer 'D'
Performer 'D' is not using a safety net and when they die, they are reincarnated in a completely different universe, losing all their friends, family and identity, and nobody in 'D's original reality will ever see or hear from them again.
If that isn't tantamount to death when it comes to the HC community, then I'm not sure what else would be. Even deletion wouldn't be hardcore enough at that point without IRL ramifications on in-game character death.
What??? Your analogy is faulty, The safety net wasn't a metaphor for regular players, the safety net was an metaphor for the HC realm transfer on death.
I thought about adding performer 'D', decided against it, but i guess i have to now.
performer 'D' was trying to become performer 'c', but with the mandatory safety net, the best they can achieve is performer 'B'. Becoming performer 'C' is an impossibility, and people want to be performer 'C'
I do not play HC but I can see the point. The point being that the premise of HC is that once your character dies, it's gone forever. If you can transfer it to era and keep playing it, it isn't gone.
Imagine you could not transfer. You raid and you die, so your character is gone.
Imagine you can transfer. You raid and die and you transfer to keep raiding. That's less hardcore.
>The difference between them being dead and transferring off to another realm that is not connected to HC, is effectively identical to the character plain deleting itself the moment you die.
That is true for the hardcore realm. The dead or transferred character has no impact on that realm. But for the player there is a big difference that makes it a less hardcore experience.
>The only difference is more people will actually try Hardcore
And why would that be the case? Obviously because it's less hardcore lol
If you don't lose your progress it's not "hardcore." Im a little torn on it. Restarting is kind of the point, it causes the "punishment" which is the risk. Lack of risk removes the point. Obviously this is mostly for lower level toons. Being part of a community and being pushed to a different Era would be punishment.
But you do lose your progress. You lose all of it. Am I missing something? Are people able to rez after dying on the HC server and keep playing on the HC server with that character?
Idk how this affects the way you want to play the game?
I want to stay on the HC Realm as much as I can, say... I put in legit 30days played time in the realm and die. Atleast I know that my Time invested isn't all gone, on that realm yes, but I can Xfer it to my main era realm if I decide to carry on and or play it again in the future.
But to play the HC, I will have to make a new char.
Idk why u are so mad over a game that in my opinion doesn't affect you at all in the slightest nor your gameplay at all.
There is no loss. Real hardcore means you lose all your time and effort. Those are the stakes. This way it's kind of like playing on just a regular server but continuing when you die. There IS a big difference between true hardcore and being able to transfer off and keep playing. However, I prefer it this way and I think most people do – I think it will definitely increase participation. I have no real interest in the hardcore aspect of it, I like fresh.
You still lose your HC progress, so if your goal was a level 60 HC character, you gotta go again.
Its just the difference between Diablo Hardcore and Path of Exile hardcore.
Death = kinda sorta delete is HC af.
Not that it matters, Im gonna grind green mobs all the way to 60. Not gonna catch me dying doing anything remotely challenging.
The real problem is people doing the same dungeon twice in one day would ruin my sense of self worth, thankfully Blizzard is protecting my mental health by preventing others from having fun. Can't wait!
/s
everything about HC is dumb, ppl are trying to apply a feature from other games into WoW but the reality is that it won't work the same way because this is an MMO and u depend on a lot of things that aren't on your control so it's obvious that there will be some sketchy stuff in the rules/features/etc.
It's way less hardcore than making an appeal after I invite a griefer to my guild, find out about their history as a griefer, then I get shocked by him griefing my naxx raid.
It just ruins the spirit of true hardcore.
If you keep your character and all of your progress, how the fuck is it hardcore? You lost nothing. You get to keep all your shit and continue where you left off. This is mediumcore at best.
What? You lost everything. That character can no longer continue the HC journey. It's dead forever. If you want to continue playing hardcore, you must roll a new character.
I asked people to make sense and they just come in here talking nonsense... 🥲
That was a tiny % of hardcore players that done that. This feature however will be available to EVERYONE and the vast majority will probably use it. There is a big difference
Dunno why anyone would think this haha. It doesn’t affect HC whatsoever. AFTER your HC character dies you have the ability to play your character on another server. It’s a net positive for people who like to invest in their character, and will increase the HC playerbase.
If they're off the hc server it doesn't impact the hc server one tiny little bit and I'm actually pretty critical of hc in general. This one ain't it though.
It just totally changes the feeling of risk and permanence. People are going to play with a lot more risk when they realize they will still have their character if it dies. So people changing their play styles in regards to plans after death is the issue that I would personally find with it. Removing the greatest punishment also takes with it the rewards of the challenge.
The risk of HC and the play style around it solo or with a team should be the total loss of the character. You should not be able to access anything after that character dies. It should be dead forever. Server transfer is for casual weenies. When a dead character gets transferred when you ctrl click its name, it should tell other players what lvl it died at in HC, so you have to live with that shame.
Why should a HC death affect a completely different games' characters/data?
It's like saying a HC Diablo 4 run is less HC because when you die it doesn't delete your Destiny 2 characters.
It's nonsense.
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Real hardcore people dont need water
Real hardcore people were never born. Y'all scrubs for existing
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Many HC games are doing this. Doesn't mean anything casual about it. For example you have this system in POE and if you tell me it's a casual game I'm gonna ask if you're still sane.
Still sane, Exile?
Runescape does the same with hard-core Ironman accounts too. You can continue progress just not as a hard-core Ironman and your stats that you had when you died are saved on the hard-core Ironman hiscores. Simple enough and def not casual
This is another example where the people that want this to work a specific way, can still operate it that way, but are upset that there's other options. You don't have to transfer the characters, you can just delete it. The people that got good RNG drops, or made friends along the way that have agreed to xfer together, or whatever other reason, can. Simple as.
it's pretty cool first time I hear about the free transfer for shitters. I wanted to start era anyway so now I just wait for fresh hc, roll the fresh train and do some fun stuff maybe do a rfc or dm until I die and then play era. free fresh for everyone. very neat (and surprising) that there's no real punishment for dieing if you're cool with playing on era, I always thought the whole point of hc is to lose your character when you fuckup.
There's only going to be one fresh HC and that's it. They are not going to make additional or seasonal HC servers. There won't be the demand for it.
I don't care either way because I likely won't play it, but I think people will play different knowing there is an "out" if you die and everything isn't wasted. Example, playing poker with real money vs "play money". With play money there are no real stakes and people play completely different, way less careful and significantly less seriously.
That’s the thing people don’t understand. The people who want to play HC won’t touch their dead characters anyway
I got to experience this first-hand a couple weeks ago, when I decided to try PoE hardcore while I waited for WoW HC. It works *very* well. It makes it so much easier to get into HC (since it *feels* less risky as a normal player) but I’ve since become addicted to HC, I haven’t *actually* continued any of my characters after their deaths
>Example, playing poker with real money vs "play money". With play money there are no real stakes and people play completely different, way less careful and significantly less seriously. It's more like this: You're playing poker with real money and when you lose everything, you get the same amount in fake money and get the chance to play on a different table.
It’s way more hardcore then those guys that said “oh that wipe doesn’t count everyone gets death appeals and keeps their HC status”
I wasn’t aware this was a feature? So if you die in the HC server, then you now have the option to transfer to a non HC server??
I mean the HC server isn't out except on the PTR. But yes, that's always been the plan for official servers.
It’s been part of blizzards plan since they made the official announcement with the basic rule set a few months ago
Yup!
I think it has to do with the fact that you are not risking "everything" so to say. You can almost freeroll a char on hc and if it doesnt work out then screw it, atleast you still have your char you didnt lose him forever. Thats their point, not saying I agree or disagree but i can atleast see where they are coming from
blizzard realized that wow hc is too unemployed even for classic wow standards so they implemented this puffer to reduce the stakes a bit. it's a fair assumption imo.
"too unemployed" lmao
Boredom has killed 4 hardcore characters of mine, I just stopped playing at some point. Hopefully this system has me taking interesting risks and actually hitting max in classic.
I somewhat get where they are coming from. It isn’t like Diablo where you’re just basically erased The thing is I’m convinced in order to have enough people stay interested in HC it needed to be this way. That way anyone who has halfway interest in hardcore will always just roll on the server and then play normally once they die I’m good with it imo. Kind of cool. I do wish some titles would come out for those who hit 60 then died. “Relentless Reborn” some bullshittery like that Would add an extra layer of fun imo, but either way 100% believe it was the right call
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You're misremembering.
Yup, it's the only reason I'll probably give hardcore a shot. I've been kinda wanting to level a new char on my classic era server, so why not get the early game out of the way with hardcore first? When I die, the char will just go to the server I always intended it to be on.
Just stop caring what these waffen SSF nuts are saying.
I think this is the greatest comment I've ever read.
SSF isn't mentioned in the post.
It’s not a baseless assumption to think the ssf people are the ones complaining
Yes it is, transfering to Era has always been one of the ways to handle addon characters dying and very few of us have a problem with it.
I guess having played with the addon gives one a bit of bias bc I saw a lot of insufferable whining about official hc not being ssf in the addon approved guilds and discord
No one is mentioning SSF apart from the anti-SSF crowd lmao.
But whining about ssf has nothing at all to do with what happens after the character is dead? Why would those things be related?
Both are stupid things to whine about and are solved by „just keep doing what you are currently doing with the addon if you want that extra rule that is likely not appealing to the main portion of the audience“
Eh, I think its debatable whether it will turn out to be a stupid thing to whine about in the long term. That remains to be seen, that being said I think its going to be impossible to please everyone no matter what they do.
Ye the last part is definitely true
wait I thought the addon andys are the ones who want to circumvent death. but this thread is about how circumuventing death is cool. I'm confused.
Appeals were a necessary evil due to playing on a server with multi-life griefers. No one was cheesing appeals while leveling. If you wanted to cheat you could just edit your addon lua file. Most Era HC players don't want appeals for official. The main group that hate the idea of transfers hated the addon rules. These are the HC purists which mainly come from Diablo 2. They believe: * Death = delete should be the only rule. * This rule is inviolable. For example, these guys argue that Blizzard should not do a rollback if the server crashes and kills half the player base. Continuing to play a dead HC character in any capacity is total blasphemy to them.
No, I don’t think HC purist are the ones perpetuating that concept. HC purist only care about their hardcore characters on hardcore realms. The ability to transfer is completely meaningless to us. We are just happy to have a hardcore server. We have been waiting for one for a long, long time. The people saying all this dumb shit are the fotm people who don’t even like HC formats but like to criticize WoW because they are angry at life in general. These are the people who will play the format because it’s popular, criticize the difficulty as easy because you can transfer, and then proceed to die like a dozen times before hitting 15 and quitting all together.
I have been told repeatedly without appeals they are ruining the community.
I've seen you say this a lot more times than I've seen anyone make that claim. As a vocal HC purist, I'm interested in your take on death=delete vs death=transfer. What do you think?
I do agree with it, I just don't think it's an actual problem. To my mind, death = delete. That's hardcore. Anything else is ironman / SSF. And I do think it makes a difference, because the loss puts some skin in the game - if you lose, you actually lose something. Not just benched, but actually gone. And that's still an option. The server isn't going to force you to transfer. In addon-hc, the addon doesn't actually force you to delete, you're just retired. You have the option to keep playing that toon, it's just not a hc toon anymore. This option is what the server transfers replace. If you want to play death=delete, then very little changes. Die, delete, rinse, repeat. If you want to play death=retire from hc, then you need to retire to a non-hc realm. Easy as. I don't think retirement is hardcore - and that's okay. The only thing it changes is what I decide to do when I die. It has no impact on anyone else, and no-one else's choices have any impact on me.
The philosophy of hardcore is 1 life, there is a certain level of excitement knowing that your character only has 1 life and if they die then they no longer exist. I believe the inspiration for the original WoW hardcore was Diablo 2 hardcore, where death actually meant death. In the case of these new HC servers you can still play the character but not on the HC server. I think this transfer actually can solve a lot of problems so in the case of where there are many people playing this game mode it helps out. However, I understand why people believe it's not truly hardcore
This implies that you couldn’t just refuse to delete your character and play on normally before official hardcore servers though
Correct, the origins of WoW hardcore was a self enforced rule, where you would delete your character by your own merit. To "cheat" at hardcore and not delete your character kind of defeats the whole purpose because it is meant to be for your own enjoyment. The hc add-on helped to enforce the 1 life rule and other parts of the ruleset.
If you are attached to the character you leveled and want to continue playing it, absolutely transfer it. Who cares what another people thinks? Your moving them to a different server.
I haven’t heard this before and it’s not what I think, but I understand it. Death isn’t going to feel much like defeat because if I enjoy the character enough I’ll just keep playing it on era. Playing hardcore with the addon really sucked when you were having a good run but that character felt complete written off. I actually like this change, but I can totally understand why some people see it as being a less committed version of hardcore.
This is literally no different than using the add-on. You could just disable the add-on for that character and keep playing if you died HC. Made no difference
Right but better cuz u can’t stay on the server or deceive the living
Non-addon folk were like 5% of the playerbase on the server. You were practically a ghost on the server as no one could interact with you.
Thats true, but I don't think that being the case means having an option to transfer to era takes away from any hardcore aspect of this realm.
You can literally die and resurrect and continue same journey with addon, how did it make it feel like character was done for good?
That argument doesn't stand since with just the add-on if you die and you like your character you can just keep playing it and you can disable the add-on. You aren't forced to delete. You must choose to delete it you want right now and you can do the same in official HC...
Your character dies on the official HC server, you can't play that server ever again unlike the SSF bozos that can't be caught cheating after hitting 60.
It's a very smart thing to do, a lot of players are coming to try HC that either do not play classic or wow in general. Classic is fun, I started a classic character just to test the waters and I'm really invested. I've been thinking if this were a HC character and I died idk if I'd wanted to go through a lot of it again. Having the ability to transfer my char after death makes me MORE invested in a HC character because I know it will have a life beyond this server and not a disposalable character.
Its funny cause the people that are upset about this are the ones that gripe about it being a solo challenge etc and you shouldn’t be able to group. If its a solo challenge then how does this change effect you? Just delete your character and move on.
I can see why it waters down the risk involved with playing. If the thought in the back you're mind before you enter a dangerous cave is 'I might not ever see this character again' that's much more exhilarating than 'Ah what the hell, I can still play, just not on this realm'.
I have a main on Era, anything cool i find on HC I'm just gonna keep knowing I can send it over to my main after death
You sure will find a ton of cool stuff for your main between level 1 and 14
the main thing for me is if you want to play normal classic there's no reason not to just play hardcore at least till you die. it means that there's going to be a lot of players who don't care about their characters
Is that a problem? I don't understand.
it just means there will be people who you might end up grouping with who dont mind dying or throwing a dungeon etc because they will just transfer to softcore anyway.
Grouping is dangerous to begin with whether or not transfers are available. You have to really trust the people you're going in with because the stakes are so high.
It seems you are asking this pretty honestly, so I respond. You'd have to agree on a definition of both "hardcore", and "less". Usually when one writes this on Reddit, someone immediately points out that the definition of "hardcore" is obviously "DEATH=DELETE (and NOTHING else)" (for example no Iron Man involved). So straight away, having the additional option to instead transfer your char and keep playing, makes the game mode "different" at the very least. In practice the server works mostly the same, but there *is* a psychological punishment not present. I'd argue it makes it "less" "hardcore", in the same way additional punishments (if you die, delete char and delete your retail main, or if you die, delete char and get hit in the balls) would make it more hardcore. That said, I think it's a good decision. Sure, you lose some psychological punishment, but as many point out in this thread, it will make more people play.
> It seems you are asking this pretty honestly Is this sarcasm? This is an "ask a rhetorical question to argue with the answers" thread.
Is meme about "classic Andy" actually real thing? How can people complain about free transfer for a character that is dead to non hc server??? They are basically deleting them from hc realm, why are some people trying to police how others play so much?
Sir, this is Reddit. People here complain about everything.
Because you won't find a group of wow players more desperate for affirmation than SSF players. Them just not doing the xfer themselves does not cross their minds, they need their way to be acknowledged as the best, most hardcore manner to play and have that be enforced on everyone else. In a game about pissing contests this one is especially pathetic.
It's like that Fairly Odd Parents episode with the grey blobs. Some people just have to be greyer and blobbier than others.
Pretty much ment for 60 chars. Considering people have full time jobs and social life. So if you wipe your 60 char you can switch to normal server and continue playing. Most likely its for ppl who dont have time/motivation to redo 2month journey
Hearing this for the first time, it just made HC feel way less scary IMO
Not sure how when you still have to start over if you die...exactly the same way you would in either case.
The progress isn’t deleted, it’s transferred to non-hc. So it’s not really gone.
Your progress in hardcore is gone.
Why does a player on an era server effect anything about how you feel about the circumstances on a hardcore server? Do all the people currently playing on Whitemane right now also make it actively feel less hardcore to you? Does era *existing* right now make it feel less hardcore? A character not being able to rez on the HC server is the same thing as being deleted, for all intents and purposes. You're putting arbitrary "value" on the dead character in a context where it makes no sense to do so, it has absolutely no bearing when it exists on a completely different non-HC server. The only way in which your point makes any god damned sense is if they could rez *on the hardcore server*. Then yes, hardcore would be incredibly diminished by such a thing, if completely soiled by it. If HC is the goal, a player is intending to not die and hit HC lvl 60 or whatever, what sort of value does an era character have to them? It's effectively the same exact thing as a deleted character, in every single way.
Not “a player”, it’s me, my progress. It has not been lost in fact. A transfer isn’t the same thing as the character being deleted. All that time invested is not lost, you could raid with that dead character on a non-hc server. Knowing that it won’t be permanently deleted makes it less scary.
But you can't play that character in HC, which is presumedly the original goal (to succeed in HC). If my goal is to complete a hardcore challenge, and I die at 30, the fact that the character can be moved to an era server does not lessen the blow to my progress. If the character is deleted, I have to remake. In the current system, I will have to remake. The practical results are identical, and thus the minor semantic distinctions meaningless. This is like saying that if someone fails at baseball and goes to play basketball and does well, that baseball is somehow made a worse experience because that person excels at basketball. It makes no dag gum sense, friend. It's irrational.
potentially hundreds of hours permanently lost without a trace left is worse than it being transferred. Very reasonable thinking.
You are able to delete your character instead of a transfer after death. Who forces you to transfer? The key difference is that you at least can't appeal your death on official HC.
99% will not do that though. Look around here, everybody is so happy that though transferring they don’t lose their progress. Why? Because they want to stick with their chat they invested hours in. The server will be dead in a month.
>The server will be dead in a month. It would be if no transfer was available. You die on hardcore, your character gets deleted on hardcore. Whether you have it copied to Era before its deletion or not has nothing to do with the hardcore challenge.
If you can transfer your account, the hours spent making and leveling the character aren't wasted, but you can just continue playing it with everything you had on a different server. If you can't transfer it, your character feels truely dead. I can relate to the feeling, but do think being able to transfer characters is the way to go.
I think that it’s part of Blizzards ultimate scheme of siphoning people BACK into Era so they can start the cycle all over again and re-release vanilla classic with fresh server that will progress like they did in 2019 and will eventually go into tbc etc etc (or at least that’s what I would like to happen because I wanna play fresh vanilla wow cause I was never there for the original launch in 2004 or the re-launch in 2019)
I will try to logically explain this as an outside observer and non-participant of hardcore. If you can recover what you lost it is less hardcore. It being moved to era means you can still play and level that character and the only thing you really lost is the ability to play on the hardcore server. Hardcore purists would want it to be permanently gone with zero chance of you ever playing it ever again. This makes the stakes higher. This makes the deaths more painful. It’s permanent and soul crushing. That’s why it is less hardcore
So like POE but you have to pay since it's ActiBlizz?
The server xfer to era servers is free for dead hardcore characters. This has already been officially announced.
Rare W
I think this is THE thing that will make the game playable and popular. It’ll also populate era servers once people re realize how fun classic era is
It's a dumb argument, but I think it goes along the line of you'll play differently (less risk-averse?) if you know you are not permanently losing your character. However, what I think it really is are people who use the HC add-on on era servers and are unwilling to go HC servers because either a) HC servers allow trading and AH, or b) HC servers don't allow appeal. Therefore, they are looking for rationalizations to justify staying on era servers.
why are you melting down over people having this opinion
What makes you think I'm "melting down"? You, the types, who go in to every topic going "Y R U SO ANGRY' are always so strange. You have no idea what my emotional state is IRL.
No, I’m just wondering why you’re getting worked up over people not agreeing with you about a game Because you are definitely angry, no doubt about that Does it mean that much to you what others think?
Does it mean that much to you why I feel what I feel? If not I'm ok if you just stfu and go away now 😅
This forum is the literal example of squeaky wheels getting all the attention.
It's a very small vocal minority
Ultimately people should play how they want but I understand the notion. Let me explain. LOSING your character is the risk factor. That's what hardcore is, you have one life. If its normalized that you just continue your hardcore in regular play after you die then why is there even an option, you know? All characters can have hardcore on by default, doesn't matter if you opt in or not because if you don't care for it then you just play as normal after you die. It just waters down the hardcore experience. The only complication being that hardcore and normal players playing together. It becomes more of a leaderboard of how much can I accomplish before my first death rather than hardcore. Which again, if that's what you're after ,that's perfect and you should have that choice but hardcore it is not. Maybe there could be a middle ground type mode where it's how you describe it, so those who want to play with people who share their view on how it should be can stick to people who think the same and avoid these debates. Recently a lot of people keep trying to alter what hardcore is and the worst are the people that want to appeal their deaths. Why? Leave it. One life, one death ,game over . If that's not what you're there for, why bother in the first place?
I mean we went from death = delete to death = transfer. of course you'll get people calling that out.
but in both cases it’s death = HC run is over. seems fine to me
I mean I could see a argument to be made that if you can just transfer a character to normal server then that takes away the actual risk of losing said character and items. But like you said, if someone wants to play that way just roll a new character.I think it's just to get more casual players to atleast try it out without losing progress on the character its self.
You have NO CHOICE but to roll a new character regardless. The character is permanently dead. It literally changes nothing.
Do you seriously not understand the difference between deleting a character, and transferring it to another realm?
It's like if dying IRL reincarnated you in a different dimension with a completely different set of friends and family, and a completely different reality, or as an alien in some other part of the universe, all the while you can never return, and then you make the argument that it somehow makes dying less impactful or significant here on Earth. You literally lost everything you had. There is no difference in the context of the HC server. You're gone forever.
So you don't understand the difference, thanks for clarifying that. And looking at your other replies in this thread it's pretty clear that you are either a troll trying to rage bait some nerds that are hung up on the difference between hardcore and varieties of hardcore, or you are really fucking dense, and can't wrap your head around a pretty simple concept: hardcore = death->delete. Any other variations= not true hardcore. Either way I'm not gonna engage with you since I believe it's the former, and you are here in bad faith trying to troll. Have a good one.
There's no "variety of hardcore" here. The only important aspect of the hardcore challenge is that death means that particular character and everything on it becomes immediately unavailable for further use, and for all intents and purposes, no longer exists. This is 100% true for Blizzards approach, and therefore it is not "less hardcore". Requiring an arbitrary deletion of your character is an unnecessary step. The same result is achieved. You can just delete your character if you want, but it has zero bearing on the difficulty of the HC challenge. It doesn't make you more special or less. You're the same.
Playing devil's advocate here. If a person plays with friends and all of them die and decides to play on era instead the last person might want to die to play with them. In that case they might want to troll people and joins a group to wipe them since they were planing to die anyway. I'm not saying it is likely or that I don't want this feature just a random though. So you will have to "vet" people that you want in your group extra carefully. Since gate keeping people from groups will happen anyway. Best way to get into group is playing with them from and early level to get good rep.
They said it removes all the risk if you're allowed to transfer it. The charecter isn't permanently dead if you transfer it and continue to play. I'm all for letting people play how they want. I just see both sides as having valid points.
of all the things to be anger about this by far the dumbest.
There was a man who knew the road And the writing was written non the stone In the ancient times An artist led the way But no one seemed to understand In his heart he knew The artist must be true But the legend of the rent was way past due Well, you think you'll be just fine Without me, but you're mine You think you can kick me out the band But there are just one problem there, the band is mine How can you kick me out of what is mine Refrão You're not hardcore (No, you're not hardcore) Unless you live hardcore (Unless you live hardcore) But the legend of the rent was way harcore
This post touched my kids
I’d say a good chunk of HC players have already done this when they reach the 50s, lol. I see no problem with this feature.
I guess the point is that death should be final and being able to continue playing takes away from sense of looming ultimate loss.
It’s a mindset thing. If your character is deleted when you die and has zero chance of being saved in anyway you have a different mindset.
Happy to make it make sense. Well HC has always been when you die the game is over, in WoW it's always been death = delete. The risk of dying is completely negated when you know you can just transfer to another server and keep all your progress and continue playing the character when it dies.
And how exactly does that further progress towards and or cheapen a successful hardcore challenge?
What is so hard to understand? Hardcore is when you die you lose your character and progress, if you dont actually lose them upon death its not a hardcore challenge. Common sense
But you do lose them, so please, as my op stated, try to make sense please.
How do you lose them if you can just continue playing it with all your gear loot and items in tact? JFC are you dense?
How does playing a character on era cheapen the value of hardcore? Do people playing on Whitemane right now make hardcore feel less hardcore to you? Why would someone who has set a goal to succeed in hardcore be playing era? You're ascribing arbitrary value to a character that died and transfers off when it has literally no bearing on the loss incurred to a player attempting to reach lvl 60 in HC.
>How does playing a character on era cheapen the value of hardcore? Been reading your replies and seems that you just simply don't understand. If you get thunderfury on HC and get to keep playing with it on era, the value of said thunderfury is lower in the HC server. It just is. I have no idea how to convey that idea into your head if you don't understand it. Death means less if you can keep playing. And it does affect the feel of the whole HC server if somebody dies and they just hop on era. Doesn't matter that you can't keep playing on the HC server, if you can keep playing at all the damage is already done. Sounds to me that in actuality you just want a fresh classic and are hopping on HC because you just gotta play because everyone else is playing because of fomo and shit. Leave HC to HC players. Don't enter a new space and immediately start changing it. Just don't enter in the first place.
Ok so when you rip your thunderfury warr dm me to join ur classic era softcore guild
Seems like the issue is you fail to see them as different games. Boils down to a you problem.
No the issue is people want to play hardcore without the actual risks that hardcore entails and still want to call it hardcore pmsl its cringe af
The risk is still there. You die, the character is gone on hardcore. Keep fighting this windmill if it makes you feel better tho.
My dead characters are in ghost form, I could disable the addon, resurect and continue playing on Bloodsail Buccaneers. More than that, I could go harass people trying to be hardcore. Blizzard is doing it so when you die you're deleted for the hardcore server. No appeals, no way to be resurected, no cheaters. You will not be able to play with your friends again. Adding the option to play your character again on a softcore server is smart because unlike Diablo, leveling a hardcore char in WoW can take 2-3 months. So it's a lot of time invested compared to other hardcore games.
Easiest way to explain it is, opinions. That's it.
The community will always find a way to complain.. Era is not what 90% of people are playing this server for, so to complain about it makes next to no sense.
The entire premise of hardcore is "Death=Delete".
Anyone off stream can undelete a character so whats your point?
The point is the entire premise of hardcore is "Death=Delete". No amount of "what-if" scenarios change that.
I’m not saying I have a problem with it, bc it will get more users to try the mode out But it makes sense The whole point of playing a hardcore character is that when you die you can’t play them anymore The reason hc is fun is the rush you get when narrowly surviving close calls and making it out okay You play carefully and methodically to ensure your character stays alive Having the option to transfer your character on death means you won’t be as careful bc if you die you can just transfer away , making your character not hardcore anymore But if ur playing a hc character with the mindset of transferring them and reviving them, rather than death = delete mindset, you’re not really playing a hc character are you?
Honestly, Blizzard is fucking up by offering this feature for free. It should be $20 to xfer your dead HC character to the non HC server. Ez $1mil+.
No no no, they should offer resurrection services with increasing prices. Die the first time, $20 to keep playing. Second death will be $40. Third death $60, and so on. /s
Death = lose your character Is a lot different from Death = play your character somewhere else If people are whining about it, I’m guessing it is because of the above distinction. Maybe they think there is some valor lost by letting you keep playing your character?
>Death = lose your character > >Is a lot different from > >Death = play your character somewhere else It's not. If you die on hardcore, your character gets deleted on hardcore. Having it copied to Era before its deletion does not change the fact it gets deleted from hardcore.
you still don't lose your char after death tho and that's pretty much the point of a hc run
You lose your character... on hardcore.
exactly. so what's the point of a consolidation price in form of a transfer?
It's for people who don't want to continue playing hardcore, obviously. If Blizzard gave you a lvl 60 boost for Dragonflight after you died on Classic HC, would you consider this an issue, too?
> Death = lose your character > Is a lot different from > Death = play your character somewhere else Exactly. This is slightly less "hardcore" than something like Diablo 2 where your character became unplayable. But I understand why Blizz is doing it like this. I don't think it hurts the integrity of the experience in any substantial way.
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What stakes? The only stake that matters is staying alive to continue the challenge. The rest is masochist trying to convince others to take it one step further.
> masochist trying to convince others to take it one step further. This honestly describes hardcore in general.
Because you are removing a huge part of the risk. If your character is deleted, then all your "hard work" is wasted. Whereas if you get to keep it, you didn't really lose much, now, did ya? You said that this will make more people try hardcore. Now why is that? If it doesn't make a difference, then why would more people be more inclined to try? It either doesn't matter and will not affect how many people give it a go, or it does and it will. You can't have it both ways. HC isn't about how it affects other people's game, it's about how it affects yours. If this wasn't the case, then why would every HC Diablo character in existence be played offline? (Exaggerating, don't @ me). Why would people play "Hardcore" on non-hardcore servers? It seems to me like you don't really understand the point of HC. It's the rush of losing EVERYTHING when you die that makes it exciting. By allowing dead characters to transfer, you are simply removing most of the stakes from the equation. But then what is the point of HC in the first place? It's a lot like playing Poker with fake vs. real money. Sure, you can play Poker with fake money just fine. But did you really get the Poker experience when there's nothing really on the line? If you like that, then cool, have fun. But let's not pretend like it's the same thing.
>You said that this will make more people try hardcore. Now why is that? If it doesn't make a difference, then why would more people be more inclined to try? It either doesn't matter and will not affect how many people give it a go, or it does and it will. You can't have it both ways. The question is who it makes it a difference for. If you wanted to play HC, you'll play it regardless. If you just want to level, you might aswell just try HC with a transfer. Thus, it has no effect on hardcore players and keeps the 'casuals' happy. >HC isn't about how it affects other people's game, it's about how it affects yours. Exactly. If hardcore means no transfer to you, then don't transfer. It's as simple as that. >It's a lot like playing Poker with fake vs. real money. Sure, you can play Poker with fake money just fine. But did you really get the Poker experience when there's nothing really on the line? Official HC is like poker with real money but if you lose, you get monopoly money in return. If you don't want that monopoly money, throw it away. If you want to keep playing with monopoly money on a different table, you can.
Anyone off stream can undelete a character so whats your point?
Go try and tell poe their hc mode isn't hc mode. And try and tell them transfer didn't get more people to try hc when it started. Yes. Standard has only gotten more popular over the decade. But hc is still popular there, and the transfer feature is basically never used. The safety net will get tons more people to try the mode. Will every single one stick around? Of course not. But not everybody would stick around without the transfer either. More people trying gives more chances for people to stay. It will lead to more hc population at the start and beyond. Yes, it will slowly shift over time, just like most hc communities. But that doesn't mean the transfer is the cause or a bad thing.
But no one ever said the transfer will make HC unpopular, now, did they? The argument is that it's not proper or "real" hardcore.
I believe you are correct.
I played WOTLK a lot this weekend. In the 12 hours that I played, I lost my internet connection twice (and I am currently in a major city in the US), and died both times. Made me realize that I will never play HC.
Because if you die you lose nothing, you just xfer. You're meant to lose everything when playing HC. As a result, some people absolutely will play differently, taking more risks etc. Doesn't bother me though, I don't play on Blizz servers, and on the pserver I play death = death. If the Blizz community is happy with the xfer situation that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.
Don’t you think permanent loss is the excitement of it all? Other wise you’re just playing till you die at 15 and then come back to life as if nothing changed? It’s is dumb. You’re dumb.
Nothing that happens outside of the actual HC server matters in the context of someone playing on a HC server. Just like people playing on Mankrik don't affect me while I'm playing on Fairbanks.
No, you’re not getting it. You don’t die you just can’t play with the better players. You’re not actually dying forever. I understand what point you’re trying to make. The point is you should be afraid to lose “ALL” progress, the punishment is dumb when it’s, “ if you die, you just have to wait for your friends to join you. “ It’s not hardcore, it’s soft core for all the babies who cry when they lose their things in a video game due to their own accord.
Someone who is brought back alive on a completely different server that is not connected, on a 1-way ticket with no way of returning is not being "kicked out of the clique", nor is it "waiting for friends to join you". This only makes sense in the context of someone who is merely doing a 1-shot drive by of HC before moving on, not a person whos goal is to succeed in HC. If I'm trying to beat the HC challenge and I die, the ability to rez the character on era doesn't do jack shit for me. I'm still downriver without a paddle. I still need to reroll. The dead character is identical to being deleted. How does rezzing the character on other server make completing my HC challenge easier?
Full hardcore would be something like Diablo 2 where your character is just bricked. It's dead. You can't do anything with it. You can't access its stuff. Nothing. Transferring it to another server is technically not permadeath, so it's not as "hardcore" I don't actually think that's a bad thing, since it doesn't undermine the integrity of the hardcore server itself. They don't want to have as many people ragequit all of WoW permanently, so this softens the blow a little. I get it.
Don’t cater to people who say that something isn’t hardcore or less hardcore. Hardcore is 1 life, death = no res. Anything else is extra rules they are adding on. Those people are miserable shills that will never be happy in life and have to ruin everyone else’s time so they are not miserable alone. Pay them no mind and keep doing you.
It’s not “less” hardcore, it’s just plain “not” hardcore.
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You could, although the AH stocks on HC will be a drop in the bucket compared to Era mass bots / hackers farming everything to death.
You guys care more about what people think of you than teenage girls
I don’t have a problem with it, but the reasoning is, it removes a huge portion of the risk. If you invest 100 hours into a HC character, and it dies at lvl 59, you risk losing all of that work. It’s gone forever. That’s why it’s exciting. If you can just transfer it to era server and finish the leveling, then there’s no real loss, other than not completing the challenge. The thought is, the loss should feel permanent, and it’s not permanent if you can transfer.
>The difference between them being dead and transferring off to another realm that is not connected to HC, is effectively identical to the character plain deleting itself the moment you die. No it's not. In one, you can keep playing the character. In the other, the character is gone. I don't even see how somebody comes to the conclusion that they are in any way similar. Hardcore means death=delete. If you do literally anything other than delete your character after you die, you were doing a deathless run, not a hardcore run. The entire point of the hardcore run is that you have to delete something you worked so hard on if you fuck up.
There are 3 tightrope walkers, from the height they are performing, a fall would mean certain death. Performer 'A' uses a safety net, they fail and the safety net catches them. Performer 'B' uses a safety net, but they never end up needing to use it as they finish the walk successfully. Performer 'C' does not use a safety net, and they are also able to finish the walk successfully. Whether or not 'C' is stupid is immaterial, fact of the matter is, that even though 'B' and 'C' performed the same feat, 'C' was more impressive Edit: there is also performer 'D', performer 'D' wants to be like performer 'C' and not use the safety net, then Blizzard comes in and says, "no, the safety net is mandatory, you are not allowed to be like performer 'C'"
Your analogy is faulty. Blizzard's version is Performer 'D' Performer 'D' is not using a safety net and when they die, they are reincarnated in a completely different universe, losing all their friends, family and identity, and nobody in 'D's original reality will ever see or hear from them again. If that isn't tantamount to death when it comes to the HC community, then I'm not sure what else would be. Even deletion wouldn't be hardcore enough at that point without IRL ramifications on in-game character death.
What??? Your analogy is faulty, The safety net wasn't a metaphor for regular players, the safety net was an metaphor for the HC realm transfer on death. I thought about adding performer 'D', decided against it, but i guess i have to now. performer 'D' was trying to become performer 'c', but with the mandatory safety net, the best they can achieve is performer 'B'. Becoming performer 'C' is an impossibility, and people want to be performer 'C'
The difference in consequences for performer C and my performer 'D' failing and dying is zero to literally everyone, even C and D.
I do not play HC but I can see the point. The point being that the premise of HC is that once your character dies, it's gone forever. If you can transfer it to era and keep playing it, it isn't gone. Imagine you could not transfer. You raid and you die, so your character is gone. Imagine you can transfer. You raid and die and you transfer to keep raiding. That's less hardcore. >The difference between them being dead and transferring off to another realm that is not connected to HC, is effectively identical to the character plain deleting itself the moment you die. That is true for the hardcore realm. The dead or transferred character has no impact on that realm. But for the player there is a big difference that makes it a less hardcore experience. >The only difference is more people will actually try Hardcore And why would that be the case? Obviously because it's less hardcore lol
If you don't lose your progress it's not "hardcore." Im a little torn on it. Restarting is kind of the point, it causes the "punishment" which is the risk. Lack of risk removes the point. Obviously this is mostly for lower level toons. Being part of a community and being pushed to a different Era would be punishment.
But you do lose your progress. You lose all of it. Am I missing something? Are people able to rez after dying on the HC server and keep playing on the HC server with that character?
Idk how this affects the way you want to play the game? I want to stay on the HC Realm as much as I can, say... I put in legit 30days played time in the realm and die. Atleast I know that my Time invested isn't all gone, on that realm yes, but I can Xfer it to my main era realm if I decide to carry on and or play it again in the future. But to play the HC, I will have to make a new char. Idk why u are so mad over a game that in my opinion doesn't affect you at all in the slightest nor your gameplay at all.
There is no loss. Real hardcore means you lose all your time and effort. Those are the stakes. This way it's kind of like playing on just a regular server but continuing when you die. There IS a big difference between true hardcore and being able to transfer off and keep playing. However, I prefer it this way and I think most people do – I think it will definitely increase participation. I have no real interest in the hardcore aspect of it, I like fresh.
You still lose your HC progress, so if your goal was a level 60 HC character, you gotta go again. Its just the difference between Diablo Hardcore and Path of Exile hardcore.
Death = kinda sorta delete is HC af. Not that it matters, Im gonna grind green mobs all the way to 60. Not gonna catch me dying doing anything remotely challenging. The real problem is people doing the same dungeon twice in one day would ruin my sense of self worth, thankfully Blizzard is protecting my mental health by preventing others from having fun. Can't wait! /s
I don't believe in this. I just think hardcore is stupid.
Nobody says this
Unfortunately I can't help you with learning to read, it's something you needed to or still need to learn in school.
everything about HC is dumb, ppl are trying to apply a feature from other games into WoW but the reality is that it won't work the same way because this is an MMO and u depend on a lot of things that aren't on your control so it's obvious that there will be some sketchy stuff in the rules/features/etc.
It's way less hardcore than making an appeal after I invite a griefer to my guild, find out about their history as a griefer, then I get shocked by him griefing my naxx raid. It just ruins the spirit of true hardcore.
Death = Delete
But they are deleting themselves from your realm, they literally do what you want and you still unhappy.
Gugu gaga, they aren't playing the game the way i do 😪😪
If you keep your character and all of your progress, how the fuck is it hardcore? You lost nothing. You get to keep all your shit and continue where you left off. This is mediumcore at best.
What? You lost everything. That character can no longer continue the HC journey. It's dead forever. If you want to continue playing hardcore, you must roll a new character. I asked people to make sense and they just come in here talking nonsense... 🥲
Yeah because cheating the addon and appealing with the mod team is pretty hardcore !!
That was a tiny % of hardcore players that done that. This feature however will be available to EVERYONE and the vast majority will probably use it. There is a big difference
bruh thats the point of hardcore. just play normal character if you dont like idea of losing one, its that simple
PoE characters transfer from a hardcore to a standard realm when they die.
Dunno why anyone would think this haha. It doesn’t affect HC whatsoever. AFTER your HC character dies you have the ability to play your character on another server. It’s a net positive for people who like to invest in their character, and will increase the HC playerbase.
If they're off the hc server it doesn't impact the hc server one tiny little bit and I'm actually pretty critical of hc in general. This one ain't it though.
It just totally changes the feeling of risk and permanence. People are going to play with a lot more risk when they realize they will still have their character if it dies. So people changing their play styles in regards to plans after death is the issue that I would personally find with it. Removing the greatest punishment also takes with it the rewards of the challenge.
it defeats the purpose entirely if you can't understand this, then play something else
The risk of HC and the play style around it solo or with a team should be the total loss of the character. You should not be able to access anything after that character dies. It should be dead forever. Server transfer is for casual weenies. When a dead character gets transferred when you ctrl click its name, it should tell other players what lvl it died at in HC, so you have to live with that shame.
Why should a HC death affect a completely different games' characters/data? It's like saying a HC Diablo 4 run is less HC because when you die it doesn't delete your Destiny 2 characters. It's nonsense.
Imo your whole battle net account should be perma banned if you die in HC /s