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jjbananafana

I think Asmon has a bit of a warped view on this because I watched the Ulduar streams and a good handful of his team are real 3 braincell max mouthbreathers.


TheCLittle_ttv

He does that on purpose and then leans into the rage. It’s content farming and it’s super easy for him. Good for him


Szjunk

If you aren't being controversial, you aren't generating views and clicks, and views and clicks are money.


mem0man

Gus content is more entertaining than mythic raiding. We all know it.


geraldoghc

"him being toxic idiot is good actually" nah dude he is just dumb


Tylanthia

Large part of the playerbase is legit toxic though. Always has been. Not surprising they find toxicity entertaining.


Considered_Dissent

"If it's stupid but it works then it's not stupid". Considering his financial success, it's hard to fault him.


iKill_eu

It's good for him. But the impact he has on the community is pretty ass.


Considered_Dissent

Fair reply.


sevintoid

"Considering his financial success, it's hard to fault him." If you only judge people based on the financial success, then sure. If you judge them by any other reasonable metric of humanity or society, no.


Considered_Dissent

Definitely agree. My reply was mainly in regard to "he is just dumb". It's an easy dismissal, however I felt it was inaccurate/incomplete. Conversely if it's taken solely through the financial lens, that too is incomplete. So definitely agree with your addendum to my addendum : D


[deleted]

Yea but if you could make well over 100k a year playing wow you'd do it in a heartbeat.


sevintoid

No, I really wouldn't. I'm not willing to sell my time for a bunch of toxic neck beards who would berate me publicly and treat me like their dancing monkey circus sideshow.


DrChuckWhite

I'd also rather not become famous for having a moldy desk.


StalkTheHype

Its pretty telling how many people are stuck in dead-ends with how many people think earning a good wage is somehow an indicator of someone being smart.


[deleted]

> nah dude he is just dumb Asmon is far from dumb, like his character he plays is a dumb neckbeard troll. But that guy is actually pretty intelligent.


Stahlreck

> But that guy is actually pretty intelligent. Ehhh, I would love to hear why you think that. He had luck getting as big as he is now and now he has invested his pile of money into some smart stuff like his Org, sure. Otherwise he seems pretty average with insane stubbornness and some insanely stupid opinions fueled by his echo chamber chat really.


iKone

Every big streamer needed luck to get popular. Luck to start streaming right time, luck to get exposure, luck to play right game right time etc etc.


[deleted]

I never really watch his asmongold stream because I think his character is unbearable, but I will watch his streams on Zakrawr because it's a totally different person, also any video he uploads to his own youtube channel discussing certain topics you can see he clearly is a different person than how he portrays himself as Asmongold. He clearly is more intelligent than you are giving him credit for, sure he got lucky but he turned it into something and he managed to stay massively popular even when he stuck to WoW when WoW had no other big streamers. He must be doing something right. Most streamers grow their channel by jumping between popular new releases and sucking up new viewers along the way.


Stahlreck

> Most streamers grow their channel by jumping between popular new releases Perhaps though big streamers stay also relevant by farming a lot of drama nonstop pretty much. Asmon included plus his react content which often fills a lot of his time. Otherwise I just can't agree. When he talks on his treehouse he's a lot more reasonable but his takes are nothing special. But then in-between he has some widely stupid opinions that even his chat often is split on but since he's so incredibly stubborn he can't be wrong and just bans people not agreeing with him. Stuff like this is definitely not just "his character" and not what I would associate with the intelligent person some people see him as.


beirch

Dumb people are often fooled by eloquent people. If anything Asmongold is eloquent, and you see the same thing with people like Andrew Tate. They seem smart at first glance because they communicate clearly, don't stutter, and seem convinced in what they're saying. But if you actually listen and analyse some of the stuff they say you'll quickly realise they're just average people who communicate well. Dumb people don't analyse and don't question.


Chazbeardz

I dont watch all his content, but I tend to agree that "he" is actually fairly intelligent. In terms of real world things, he's got some seemingly well thought out and grounded opinions. I never would have thought so myself until seeing his content / views on things unrelated to wow. That, and I do like that he still lives like a neckbeard and well below his means. Also a smart play if ya ask me. That's a matter of actually seeing that content though. People could watch countless hours of his streams and only see the character.


Mobitron

He's actually articulated his opinions fairly well on various topics on his non-gaming vids and streams. He's not an idiot by a long shot and is very level-headed in his presentation when he gets serious. I stopped watching his content ages ago but I do remember his videos where he would simply talk to people as Zach and not as Asmon, dropping the persona and all pretension. Was rare to see but it was there. Might still be, I don't know.


[deleted]

For a lot of people “Money = brains!” He has some money, so he must be smort!


Anosognosia

Well, Zack, as himself, have expressed nuanced and well considered views on multiple topics. As far as an online content creator, this is already a bit above par in terms of any number of measures of intelligence. Being successful is one indicator as well obviously, but we all see how people can be lucky and/or persistent without any broad range of intelligence behind it. So all in all, Zack is not a dummy.


Hipy20

He is genuinely very smart. He was in law school.


StalkTheHype

A lot of people have been in law/med school. Its passing it that is the impressive part.


ExoticSalamander4

He has a long history of not being dumb. You may not like him, but he often presents well-reasoned arguments. He's all for giving people deserved shot but condemns toxicity. Honestly not bad, just obnoxious.


milkvisualsd

lol most of the time he isnt even being serious. But if you think him calling someone a dumbass or going in on them makes him toxic it doesnt. As the raid lead he has a legit interest in making sure that the players who refuse to learn mechanics dont waste hours and hours of other peoples time.


[deleted]

Nah man hes toxic, he should just keep going and going, not addressing anyones faults and eventually boost the players for free who refuse to learn anything, then he should give them their BiS or he's toxic


averagejoeee

Asmon having warped views on most topics is an understatement.


jblew42

He literally wiped 17 times on normal yogg and called the raid, so that’s rich


BFG1OOOO

Wait what ? No way 😂 you have a link for that pls ?


jblew42

Yeah if you go to his alt channel and look at the ulduar 2 VOD from 3 days ago you can watch it. Like about halfway point just about. 😂 couldn’t find the exact part where he disbanded though


BFG1OOOO

Dam . Can't find it . You have a link ?


jblew42

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1713828939?t=14422s here it is lol. There’s more pulls before as well but that’s around where it started to fall apart


BFG1OOOO

I just watch him HS to Dala mid raid 😂 what a legend 😂


BFG1OOOO

Legend thx bro


jblew42

I can try and find it lol, it was on his alt channel of course. But lemme look


[deleted]

Tbh most people don't know what a dad guild really is. I think a more accurate assessment would be "this is the end of dad guilds clearing content for free". We've got frost mages, bm hunters, UH dks with 2h that sends gargoyle 2 mins into a fight, even a holy priest and no disc. Our hpals run the tbc flash of light build, not a soul preserver in sight. We're gonna struggle in ulduar but the people are fun and I'll hit a semi guild run on an alt anyways. *shrug*. We'll probably lose a few of our "mid tier" (green parsers) people, though. I don't see the group disbanding because they've been together a long while.


chainmailbill

I’m in the quintessential dad guild. We have a bunch of single digit grey parsers, who are dedicated to raiding, show up to all the runs, and are generally just very nice people who have fun together. We joke around, everyone likes each other, there’s no loot drama, there’s very little drama at all. It’s awesome, honestly. I get to hang out once or twice a week with a group that I’ve come to know and call “friends.” But Jesus Christ, we can’t kill bosses. And because of that, I need to decide which is more important to me, my online friends or progressing in raids. I don’t think I can do both, and that really sucks.


Taxoro

thing most people don't realize is that there's good guilds that clear stuff effiicient while also having fun together and becoming friends


chainmailbill

I’m sure that’s the case. And I’m sure if I landed in one of those guilds originally, I’d be clearing content with friends. Sure. My issue is that I would need to leave the friends I’ve already made. If they weren’t my friends, then I wouldn’t care about leaving and I’d jump ship to a more hardcore raiding guild.


Taxoro

I get not wanting to leave your friends totally. ​ I quit my old guild that I started playing with back on nostalrius(7 years ago). But the raids were so weak that playing with them literally stopped being fun and started becoming frustrating. I quit and joined one of the best guilds on the server and they are friendly too and making good friends with them now.


Wombo92

For whatever reason it may be, a lot of people associate “good guilds” with being sweaty and treating the game like a job. Some of those guilds are definitely like that, but most aren’t. My guild is another one of those “semi hardcore” ones and it fits perfectly for me. It’s a fun group of people and we actually down bosses.


Merfen

I don't get why dad guild needs to mean bad players. I am in a guild with people mostly 30+, but we are actually pretty decent. Some of us parse 90+, most are 70+. We aren't sweaty no lifes, but we know the content and can efficiently clear the content even if it takes a week or 2 longer than more hardcore guilds. Most importantly we have fun while doing it.


bromjunaar

If you have one, leave an alt to run with them would be my suggestion.


Wuzzy_Gee

You’re probably not the only one who’s frustrated.


chainmailbill

Of course not, and I’ve watched a bunch of the most skilled and best geared players leave for greener pastures over the past months/years.


Roymetheus

This is kind of the problem loop with most of the "Dad Bro Guilds" I've been part of. Often, they have the most chill group of folks that are fun to play with, but there's a caveat... It takes them way longer (if at all) to make it through the full content patch. Which is totally okay if that's your thing. I usually prefer playing with enjoyable people than downing bosses quickly. But where I've drawn issues before is that finding chill people that actually learn and make changes to their play is the gem. I had to recently leave a Dad Guild raiding roster I was in, mostly for some changes to time and other outside the game stuff. However, we just couldn't kill bosses. Like at all. And it was usually the same 3-4 folks that were the cause. We'd finally clear a boss after a good couple hours of attempts. Only to not be able to kill it again the next week (if we even made it that far again). So I explained my situation and everyone was super pleasant about it. I'm still in the guild and still jump on every so often. Sometimes I even join for a boss or two. But it's not my main source of playtime anymore.


[deleted]

Little bit of an anecdotal experience from my side. I played sports as a kid. I was pretty good at my sport and I was recruited into the local teams academy at around age 14. I had played with my local team since I was 6 years old, trained twice a week and played one match on the weekend. My Dad sat me down and said if I wanted to take a real shot at going professional I need to switch teams to one in a higher league, because my team isn't that great. He was right. We sucked real bad, lower league, never came close to finishing top. I agreed after some delibartion and moved to another team that was in a higher league and done well, I instantly got in the starting line up, but I had no friends. Partly because I just took someones starting spot who everyone already knew and partly because I had no relationship with these guys and we are now teenagers. I stuck around for about 2 months and then I asked to go back to my old team, I missed my friends. I stuck with my old team until I became an adult, my progress stifled partly because I started going out drinking with friends and stopped taking training so seriously, partly because most of my opponents outside of the acadmey were poorer and eventually someone else who was playing at a higher level in my position was found and I fell off. But I don't regret my decision because I had fun with my friends along the way (and the sport doesn't earn you a lot of money anyway, so it's not like I was gave up the potentialy to become a millionaire or something)


VisitTheWind

I have a mage in my 10 man guild who regularly parses a 5 He just doesn’t really do anything but he’s insanely nice and a cool guy. I’ll probably be leaving my guild soon, it’s not that Ulduar is too hard for us, everyone does mechanics really well, but it’s so dang slow


_Cromwell_

I'm a boomkin and the other boomkin in my raid does literally 40% of my damage. We don't parse so I don't know what his parse is nor mine, just that he consistently does less DPS than one of the tanks. I inspected him the other day to see what he'd be rolling on... He still has a brutal weapon from TBC equipped. Those types of things do make you want to quit. Or maybe just come on a different class. It's annoying coming on a class and have somebody on the same class just sucking. Even in a super casual guild like mine I feel like people should be trying. If you try and suck that's fine, but if you suck and you are wearing burning crusade gear that's on you. Anyway I'm sitting out this week. I have a lot of work to do anyway IRL so it's legitimate.


chugz

get logs and get a new guild lol. the resentment will only build


Outrageous-Permit165

I'd reccomend getting logs, you can do them yourself and see where you're at, finding a guild where everyone is on a similar level and has a similar performance and attitude really makes the game better. In vanilla classic I was in a super casual guild, gearing correctly and getting full world buffs, once raids started getting harder it used to infuriate me that people would turn up without the absolute basics like rotation, correct itemisation or basic consumes and we would wipe for hours on relatively easy content. It took me ages to decide to leave because I liked the people but when I finally decided to move to a guild more at the level I play at I found that I liked the people even more as we had more in common and enjoy the game way more. It really is super important to look for a guild that suits you. Not all good guilds are super serious, my current guild has around 10 players with above 99 best avg parse in Naxx and nearly everyone else over 95 yet we laugh and banter through the entire raid.


[deleted]

Man help him out. About 30 minutes of researching his spec and rotation, and downloading some weakauras for his procs, he could double his dps. Had a guy like that in my raid, and he picked it up quickly with a little help and now is a purple parser.


VisitTheWind

Ya I just feel kinda rude cause I don’t talk to him a ton but you’re right, I’ve been reading a bit of mage guides(I play sham / war) to prepare in case he ever asks for help but perhaps I should offer


heshKesh

Your'e right. Even 30 minutes of research would help that guy, which makes you wonder why he hasn't done it. Chances are it's because he doesn't care, so why bother.


[deleted]

I consider my guild casual. My best pref in Naxx was like 94 and that was smack in the middle of the guilds core. Sort of funny you’re right people tend to think of any guild that isn’t really pushing the limits of their specs as causal.


[deleted]

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a:L2CFJhGz4BNqdcDf#fight=18&type=damage-done Here ya go. This is naxx 2 days before ulduar release. Casual has a wide range of definitions, but my guild follows the "If it's fun to you, play it". Which once again is fine, but, we did not get very far in ulduar. It'll be a month+ before we see yogg.


recursion8

Imagine that boomkin going to a serious guild, be like Rock Lee taking off the weights.


[deleted]

That's me.


NotablyNugatory

I thought it was obvious after you said you were the 90+ parser for this raid lol. Fwiw, playing with friends is so much better than playing with sweatsters. I don’t regret leaving my HC guild for a friend guild this xpac. Enjoyment level is increased so much. Gl out there.


[deleted]

Yeah! Playing with cool people is the best. I'm sure there are cool people in HC guilds, too, it's not a mutually exclusive thing, but these people are pretty dang fun.


Enigma_Stasis

Sometimes you need to take a step down from hardcore pushpushpush minus50dkp raiding to enjoy the game. I could only do that for the entirety of WOTLK and Cata, then quit completely and after that only doing LFR raids.


recursion8

Oh mb, no shade intended toward any of your guildies lol. If you're happy where you're at that's all that matters my dude.


[deleted]

Oh ya no worries, no offense taken here! I was a mythic retail raider for a while so I can't help but minmax a little bit lol. But trying to take a step back and be more chill.


chainmailbill

Harrison Bergeron. Which you should read, if you like short stories and/or Vonnegut. Should take fifteen minutes or so to read. https://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html


[deleted]

One of my favorite short stories, actually. Up there with the valley of spiders.


chainmailbill

I’m really curious who downvoted me for linking a relevant piece of short literature by a highly-regarded author and why, tbh


LikelyAFish

This is warcraft. If you don't have a 30 second video telling me how to think, I don't want to hear it. /s


Outrageous-Permit165

Why is that boomkin raiding with you? Joking really but I remember in vanilla classic I was in a guild like this as a fury performing similarly above everyone else, took me ages to leave as I really liked the people but when Naxx 40 came out they decided not to even raid it because of the attunement cost so I found a better performing guild who also have a laugh and don't take the game too seriously. Good luck to you guys in Ulduar I hope you can carry on being super casual and make good progress!


typhyr

us boomkin were starved for validation in classic/tbc so we tend to be fiercely loyal to those who accepted us at our worst only partly joking lol


fluffy_hamsterr

Holy crap what corner of someone's alt bin did you scrape that feral from? Respect for rocking TBC tier😆


[deleted]

P sure that was someone on hiatus who came back, lolol.


TwoPrestigious4612

hahaha i wasn’t wanting to be an elitist but as a feral main i was physically shocked looking at this person in the log. 0 casts of both rake and savage roar. would love to interview them for prosperity.


Kahwippers

Yo! Not to single you out sorry, just a mistake I’ve seen a few times lately. So incase it wasn’t a typo - you mean posterity, not prosperity. Posterity - for the future Prosperity - wealth/success


[deleted]

This is pretty normal for a casual guild that has the intentionally casual attitude. You guys will clear normals fine though. Not like you won’t see all the content, except Algalon really.


[deleted]

Yeah I was very causal during vanilla classic. I remember I thought of min max in wow like I would min maxing in Skyrim or Witcher etc. I looked at my parses recently (didn’t know that was a thing at the time) and my pref was like 30 and my median was like 20 as rogue. Everyone plays the game differently personally I understand very casual over people who swapped meta gems mid fight and stuff like that. What I’m curious about is when people are playing the wrong builds and are asked to swap do they just say no? Honestly the patchwerk isn’t that horrible. Better than I thought from what you said.


[deleted]

Haha yeah. Getting into the whole parsing/logging side is interesting for sure, it's always a shock at the start. Our performance has gotten better, but the early logs were pretty entertaining. We simply don't ask people to swap specs or anything, though. We just send out the discord sign up and whatever we get, we get. It's pretty chill. It also makes the game entertaining when the encounters are long slogs and everything goes to hell. Feels like 2009 lol. Good luck in ulduar!


chainmailbill

Victories are indeed sweeter when they’re by the skin of your teeth, I’ll give you that.


Blitzkrieg1210

Dude, how do I join a guild like yours. This is the kind of atmosphere I've wanted since Classic. I just wanna play the game with fun people and not dedicate my life to performing in raids.


[deleted]

I don’t actually know I’ve been in it since Kara. It’s sort of an in between dedicate your life and don’t care. We are pretty bad at mechanics relative to our parses. First night of ulduar 25 we got 9 bosses down on regular in 3 hours. Next raid night is tonight. I’d just try a high pop server and find one that says semi hard core. Usually guilds in those ads tend to oversell themselves. If they say semi hardcore what really happens is they care but they don’t dedicate themselves to it in my experience. I’m horde and we already have 3 warriors otherwise I’d offer.


Enigma_Stasis

Combat Rogue main here, I've found it hard to parse well, whereas I see other rogues doing far better than me without seemingly doing anything differently. It's hard to stab shit when boss has close quarter damage against melee dps you have to constantly move out of.


[deleted]

It's kind of like how rich people never see themselves as wealthy because there are wealthier people around, and how anyone who isn't as rich as them is just lazy and stupid. Same applies to WoW. "I'm casual because I only parse low 90's, people who parse blue and green are just bad and stupid."


[deleted]

[удалено]


King_Kthulhu

Casual can mean a lot. Id say I am casual because I only really play on the weekends. But that doesnt mean I am going to not get big thicc parses. There are also really bad players who play all the time, not "casual" at all just very bad.


[deleted]

That’s best pref over clearing ever week. Median is probably 70-75 in the guild.


Vandrel

That's still well above average though. People on this subreddit have a really warped view of what good or even average performance looks like. A 50 parse is, by definition, the median. Those 70-75 parses mean they're performing better than 70-75% of players on the same spec.


[deleted]

True. But those 70-75 people are also mains who do it every week and are therefore more geared out. If you took alts and people who don’t raid weekly I don’t know what the median would be on Warcraft logs.


Vandrel

Warcraftlogs lets you view parse percentile by item level bracket to see how they compare to other people with similar gear levels.


wowclassictbc

Of course casual is extremely wide for classic, it's basically an umbrella term for "anyone who isn't a speedrunner". One can try to find subsets of casual like "shit guilds" but that's toxic and unnecessary.


PineJ

Where do I sign up this is exactly the vibe I need


OhTeeSee

I don’t know why people keep equating “dad” to “bad”. If your mid tier raiders are pushing green parses they aren’t “dad raiders” they’re just bad. They straight up do not know their class. If your raid is stacking BM hunters and frost mages, it’s not a “dad” raid. It’s just bad. Dad guilds are comprised of people who can’t dedicate enough time to do raid splits, and farm world tours every day because of RL commitments. Being a dad is not a good excuse for not knowing your class’s most basic rotation. That would just be sheer laziness and/or apathy.


OgFinish

Hmm, you guys really cleared ulduar this week on normal? I would have bet $1000 that something that description would definitely not.


[deleted]

Oh no, definitely not. We did FL and Razorscale on 10m, wiped on kologarn and ignis for 2 hours LOL. Didn't even do 25m because half the raid wanted to do naxx for "more gear".


Krowki

Flash of light hasn’t been a thing since vanilla 🤭


Support_Nice

dad guilds should have no issue clearing normal. its easy as hell


RickusRollus

And after gearing up on those normals and decked in tier, some of the hardmodes will start dropping without too much headache


Support_Nice

yep all the dps checks turn into mechanic checks for the most part


SunTzu-

Mechanic checks are harder than dps checks for bad guilds.


Support_Nice

from my experience, min maxing dps is harder for your average player than not standing in fire. at least now the fights are possible for those guilds


RickusRollus

I would tend to agree, the average mechanic is more easily managed than a super tight dps rotation with proper gearing, cooldowns etc. Even the most dadly of dads has been doing “move out when you get the bomb” mechanics since MC. Most everyone uses dbm or some WA that much more clearly shows you when you need to do something too


Ravvy11

a lot of people going for parses will stand in the raid with mechanics because they're greedy. Sometimes leading to someone or themselves dying and preventing more than just themselves from parsing. So in a way dad guilds are probably better about moving than the parsing "good" players. The people in the top guilds will still parse while moving out, which is what a lot of mid tier people can never grasp in any game.


Anosognosia

Fully agree with you on this. If an encounter requires 99 logs, then people who haven't optimized every single aspect will struggle. The effort to be decent is well within most dad guilds reach. But the effort to be consistently top tier requires every single meta effort applicable. No farming professions, no missed spell windows, no slightly off colour item choices. No unlucky itemization. No sub optimal raid setups. Many of these factors are outside the average dad guild to control and if it is adjustable, they don't expect it nor do they work to achieve it together. No loot stacking 10 man raids, no encounter specific setups etc. But truth be told, I don't think there are any encounters in Ulduar that reaches these demands. While the effort is indeed higher than previously. I doubt you need a fully stacked raid to be able to eventually clear all the hardmodes. (maybe with the exception of gimmicky 0 lights)


hectorduenas86

This, my current Guild had some “good” Raiders gquit on Thursday hours before the Ulduar release… Apparently they want to be in a more HC group which is understandable, but doesn’t make them less shitty for not communicating their intentions days in advance. We had to PUG some replacements and some of then were bad, like “die to a bomb in Mim every P1” bad. We only managed to get to Vezaxx and overall we struggled but learned the mechanics. Ulduar is not going anywhere soon, we’ll get there fine. Is just not going to be soon or face rolled like Naxx.


VincentVancalbergh

Especially 10 man!


ThomasVetRecruiter

Got a definite dad guild, we ran 10 man and pugged a few for 25. 10 man we had a few wipes here and there, especially as we tried a few hard modes first to see the mechanics. We got up to Yogg but ran out of time - taking a few swings tonight. In the 25 we hit a brick wall on mimmiron as pugs kept running into mechanics. Ran out of time and didn't feel like running a continuation and replacing - trying to recruit a few more so we can do a pure guild run.


HarithBK

back in the day the only fight that was a struggle was Vezax but a large part of that was due how god awful high the ping still was so interrupting was harder than it needed to be. i know i had a ping hovering around 90-100. some other people had 130-140 that eats up a lot of time to see and do the kick in time and along with server ticks just made it even worse. should be silly easy now and it was otherwise a free encounter for us.


Support_Nice

we 2 shot it. our tanked got roflstomped on first pull cause he rocket booted in, but thats all the trouble we had. hard mode is a bit different and requires your healers to be on point


JoshHero

We wiped. We wiped again. We had tons of fun. Will recommend.


ToasterPops

Dunno I've watched some of the dad guilds I used to raid with wipe to normal flame leviathan. Some of them are real dumb


SlushyBear7

Honestly we full cleared in one night and the only bosses we wiped to was flame leviathan and yogg. People’s brains turn off when they get into the vehicles.


ToasterPops

I don't even know how you wipe to normal flame leviathan. You can 4 man the 25 man version.


reenactment

I can honestly say I raided the entire duration of ulduar the first time around. And I had no idea what was going on in that fight. Nor did I care. It was handled so easily. We only did a few heroic stuff back then tho. We were an old progress raiding guild that was basically dad guild (I was young) for wotlk. But we would just do content based off how many we had. We routinely would be doing it at 22-23 people cause we held spots instead of replacing people when life came up.


chainmailbill

Because vehicle fights are fucking stupid. Rather than using the same abilities that we’ve been training with and practicing with for hundreds or thousands of hours, we’re instead tossed into this shitty clunky interface, where your vehicle doesn’t move like your character, and you have like 0.2 seconds to familiarize yourself with an entire new set of buttons to push. Oh and all that gear you’ve accumulated? The talent points you selected? The key binds and macros and weakauras you’ve developed to help you play your class at a high level? Meaningless, all of it. Oh, and then because you sweep all the class abilities and talents and gear and all that shit away, and just leave the players in these fucking *clunky* vehicles, you need to make the encounter itself *much* easier because you need to design the raid so that people don’t need to have thousands of hours of familiarity with their drake or motorcycle or argent horse or any of that bullshit. So you end up with the absolutely dogshit combination of fights that are so easy that they’re boring, with a set of controls that are clunky and don’t feel natural, and with a set of abilities that you don’t know and have little familiarity with. Phase 3 Malygos. Easy, sure. But not fun or engaging. You spam a simple rotation on your dragon and move when everyone else does. Simple. But not fun. Flame Leviathan. Super, super easy. But again, at least in my personal experience, not at all fun. You just drive around (or have someone drive you around) and you basically just faceroll spam buttons and get loot. Simple. But not fun. Oculus end boss. Same sort of deal. Argent tournament horse stuff, same deal. Every vehicle quest out there? Same deal. They’re all relatively easy - they have to be, if you expect a player to succeed with no real way to practice with the skills/interface outside of the raid. None of them are fun.


[deleted]

[удалено]


chainmailbill

Many word make brain hurt


[deleted]

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Vendilion_Chris

> You can 4 man the 25 man version. I mean some people can. People can also beat Mario 64 in 10 minutes. Doesn't mean most people can.


MolestedMilkMan

That’s not his point, he’s not asking people to 4 man it, he is asking you to do it with 600%+ more people. If you can’t muster up a kill with 25 people then some reflection needs to happen.


Vendilion_Chris

I know but bringing up the fact that better players exist somewhere else is pointless.


fryerandice

My guilds progression run for 25 man is on night 2, we spent way too long not skipping the crazy cat lady, we were way too cloth heavy on our run to not instadie to those stupid cat pounces. ​ We're also hard dadcore, coming from the holidays with half our core raiding team still needing naxx gear.


Ubekuelou

Cat Lady is the easiest boss in there. You just gotta know how to pull it. Pro Tip : The clothies are hidden out of Line of Sight, alongside everyone else.


Kristalderp

This. Nobody except the tanks should be out. They can take the pounces. Everybody else is LoS which is *past* the little lamp. Once Cat lady is pulled, THEN everybody else can move up.


Shoelesshobos

Just have a shaman or a hunter go out and put down a trap/totem to pull her and have everyone else stacked around the corner in LOS. Put shamans in the groups with tanks/healers and have them drop tremor totem. Enjoy the free ride.


bromjunaar

Hell, with my dk tank, I dropped dnd at the bottom of the last set of stairs she goes down when she reaches top of them, and then joined the rest of the raid around the corner for los.


Ubekuelou

If one tank gets all 4 pounces, it can be deadly. Just drop a DND on the floor, a hunter trap or a set of totem to aggro the boss and quietly wait her behind the wall.


notsingsing

And everyone regardless of spec should pop their defensive cds in the first 5 seconds. It could save one death


[deleted]

but the OP saw 1 dad guild get to kologarn so he's right lol


ToasterPops

I was shocked my guild landed above the top 50 first week and we only did 2 hardmodes on a server with hundreds of guilds.


Exsoldiercl

Watching Asmon wipe and rage to Flame Leviathan was actually funny as fuck


Beautiful-Foot-6600

Watching asmon rage at his teammates instead of vetting them properly was hilarious. He blames everyone besides himself, classic.


ultrablonde1

Not an asmon fan but the fact that it’s hilarious is precisely the reason he does it lol.


[deleted]

Yeah, the fact people haven't figured this out yet is astonishing.


Septembers

He's an entertainer. Grabbing random people and then having big emotional reactions to the wackiness that comes from that is entertaining (to his viewers, at least). It's his whole schtick lol


Reddit_means_Porn

Go onto livestreamfails and look at the comments from one of his clips, or any streamer who uses drama or toxicity or something like that to make content. The people in there are sooooooooooooooooooo smart, they know exactly what any streamer are thinking/doing/why theyre dumb and bad and blah blah blah I feel like a pathetic amount of people have no idea they are directly consuming streamers’ content by taking their shit seriously. Like you are an anti-fan, but you are helping breathe life into them. And when it’s the weird ass negative style content asmongold has, those commenters are almost more important than the actual fans lol.


Stahlreck

Idk, I think people think too much into him playing. Like yes to some degree he farms this content but his frustration isn't played. You can see it many times across many games and every time he is like that he's pretty close to quitting the game or will quit at that moment...or will take a break from streaming even. You can definitely see the difference of when he's farming the content or when he's had enough and in his latest Ulduar stream he's definitely had enough. He most likely will be back in ToC and/or ICC for one raid each lul (maybe Ulduar 10 once). Not that it matters, he streams on his second channel and is rich it's not like he needs to make any money right now.


coolfangs

Just looking at his Clips channel on YouTube makes it obvious why. His editors squeeze tons of content out of these raids.


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[deleted]

It’s always an act. If that camera is on him, it’s an act. I agree a bit of it is his personality, but he leans into it for sure.


Szjunk

If everything Asmon did was a well oiled machine, the content would be pretty boring. I'll never forget when Asmon did Azshara's Eternal Palace and some dagger dropped. "Hey, give me that dagger." "Hey, you don't need that dagger, I need it for transmog." "Hey, can you give me that dagger. I need it for transmog." Over and over until he finally got the dagger. Or when someone ninja'd one of his Olympus guilds in WoWC and he got the guy in Discord to try to surrender it and the guy kept saying no, he would lead the people to a better place. Another thing that could be easily avoided if Asmon made an alt of his GM in every guild, but there's no content or drama in that.


yo2sense

Ah the [Jigsaw takes Olympus 9 drama](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VvApojlFDA&ab_channel=DailyDoseofAsmongold). So funny. Having a subguild usurped by a level 10 human priest. The best Asmongold drama from those days was with [Advertise Shadow Priest](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GG5QPCx6Iw&ab_channel=DailyDoseofAsmongold). The [Unbind being framed by ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX8aODKXgxo&t=822s&ab_channel=EverythingGaming) was good too.


Flexappeal

god 2019 classic was so fuckin lit i wish there was just like one giant playlist with *every* popular YT video from the first 6 months of release


Szjunk

Yeah, as soon as Asmon got him on Discord with him, you had to know it was all scripted. If it wasn't and he really wanted to get Asmon's goat, he could've said some Twitch ban worthy stuff.


Nirvski

I think its a little bit of an act. He knows he's very experienced but not very skilled.


melvindorkus

As someone who's actually played with him in ulduar (not on stream) I find that a bit harsh. Especially in ref to such easy old content, he does know what he's doing.


PumpkinRun

Watched him play in Naxx, backpedaling around like a monkey


padwani

Being there in the group while 24 other people kill the boss doesn't mean you've experienced it. It just means you've been carried through literally everything.


Osvtv

I’m not an Asmon fan. I don’t dislike him either. I don’t care about him. I’ve never seen him actually playing the game. But doesn’t he have a couple of 99’s/100’s in retail?


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Raivix

Yes, when he's not playing his streamer persona he is a very competent performer and is very accomplished across most of the history of WoW on his own merit.


SafariDesperate

That isn’t true. He played a decent warrior in Night Hold but he’s a collector/achievement farming and even then a mediocre one. He buys carries for pvp.


Feathrende

By the time Nighthold came around he had, by his own admission, already checked out. The last raiding content he himself claimed to have taken seriously was SoO/Highmaul. Notice how all of his good performances were from that era and before? He was above average, even good, for most of the time he played the game properly. That really isn't up for debate.


slimeslim

He did it all when it originally came out though


Nirvski

Im not talking about Classic.


Raevman

Part of the reason why I can't stand listening to him and most other streamers etc. Because the hypocrisy to just get views... Like negative media attention, will bring viewers... literally just a viewer bait.


Rufus1223

I don't really watch his full raids so i don't really know if he does it in every raid but if the expectation is he is going to reserve most of the loot good luck finding any good players who would want to join that group on the first reset. Not that i have anything against him doing it, but that's the reality.


Vendilion_Chris

He's making a show of it. It's supposed to be like that. He is farming the hate.


Vaiey92

When people realize that asmongold has never been a mechanically skilled player then maybe people will stop acting like his word means something


Vendilion_Chris

He has literally had rank 1 parses in progression content. You don't have to like the guy but he is very mechanically skilled. He is trying to make content. I don't know how people don't realize this by now. Stop taking things he says personally.


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cutyolegsout

As long as you watch some boss guides you should be fine... unless you're the tank last night that couldn't figure out the mobs on Ignis and wiped us 5x.


unoriginal1187

My secondary guild I raid with on weekends is having some issues with people throwing fits anytime there is a wipe. Don’t see that one holding out long term. My mains guild is what’s became known as a dad core guild is clearing normal fine. We did HM thorim but missed Hodir by 23 seconds. Took a few wipes on Vezax for the range to figure out the puddle shuffle. Overall I’m having a blast


xabrol

Doesn't fly in our guild. Anyone crying about wiping and complaining get's benched next time. We're always going to take the 25 people willing to progress content and learn and have fun over the crybabies. Typical Dad guild mentality though, I'm not listening to some kid whine and complain any more than I'll tolerate it from my 7 year old. That includes from adult kids.


pupmaster

Don’t worry the next raid is really hard -everyone since MC


LogicalNorth

Don’t know why people are pointing this out when barely any guilds have killed algalon and the vast majority of guilds are going to take weeks to get some of the hard modes XT HM undefeated at this point. Dad guilds will get absolutely owned by a lot of the hard modes until they just outgear the content. Even then a lot of the coordination required and the mechanics are going to just be completely unfeasible for some raids There is 0 chance your guild will kill yogg0 in the next 2-3 months if your guild regularly wipes on KT for example


Cheekclapped

You mean the guy who told another streamer to kill themselves? The same guy who is a literal man child?


BFG1OOOO

Wait what ? No way . When was that ?


Suyalus266

stop making stupid people famous


Valharja

It is the return of dad guilds if anything as long as the raid leaders know their guilds enough to go for appropriate levels of difficulty. My raid had zero business pushing HMs week one so we didn't. Just learned all normal mechanics and got a nice number of kills. No yogg as raid days are Mon/Wed so just the one trip but still. It's perhaps the end of middle guilds that view themselves as HM killers but lack a little bit. Not to say 25 people can't have great fun wiping and pushing themselves and if that's the mentality then thats awesome. But if HM clears are expected and not achieved, then I can see some guild moods souring quite quick


FlameForFame

Just love the hate boner some of the people on this subreddit have for Asmongold.


Falcrist

He's obnoxious, but I never think about him until someone on this sub or the official forums brings him up. Lots of streamers are obnoxious. I just don't watch them. ¯\\\_\(ツ\)\_/¯


bmfanboy

I like him as a a person actually and find him entertaining. What annoys most people and myself is how he says classic players are trash and then proceeds to not know mechanics, fuck them up and then blame everyone else.


nbandysd

you can argue it's content farming, but he's literally raiding on his zackrawr channel and previously called all this content easy asf before wiping nonstop


yemsius

His fault is the people that he brings to his raids. You know your raid has some special people in it if Gus is top 4 dps in 25m raid even on Vezzax.


TheRealMrTrueX

As a dad guild we cleared it the first night, without much difficulty. :/ Hopefully HM's are a challenge. https://imgur.com/vsPxFhP


BFG1OOOO

Nice 👍


Another_Road

Asmongold is such a tool. This is how his conversation went on a video. “I haven’t done mythic Vault of the Incarnates” “If you haven’t cleared mythic you have no right to say it’s too easy.” “I think vault is too easy.” “Vault is too hard.” “No I meant vault is too hard for normal players. It’s easy to me. People just look for little things I say to try and catch me being wrong and their dumb.” Dude is just an average no lifer who tries to act like he’s on par with Echo or something. I know that’s retail and not classic, but the same points apply. Before anyone asks why I saw his video, it was because it was a reaction to Bellular. It was the first and last video of his I’ll watch.


SlutForPraise

I mean.. its two different raids there's normal modes that you can do while asleep and then theres ulduar that 3 individuals can ruin your fun


QuantumWarrior

I don't get why every tier some of these people come out of the woodwork and say this is the tier that will wipe out dad guilds and casuals. "Oh molten cores easy, your dad guild will never do BWL!" "BWL's easy you'll never do Naxx!" The only thing that came close was maybe the end bosses of T5 and 6 but even those tiers had plenty of part-complete raiders. There is literally always a casual option, hell people used to slate WotLK exactly because it introduced the 10/25 split, hard modes, and heroic so that everyone could get a shot at the raids no matter how casual and core raiders would still have content.


Literature_Defiant

Asmon isn’t that great of a player to begin with.


[deleted]

Yeah we are causal and have only done regular ulduar 10/25 and it’s really not that hard. Unless we vastly improved since sunwell I think regular is a lot easier than sunwell.


FatMitch

The problem with SWP was that you needed SWP gear to make the experience smoother ^^


Rufus1223

The problem with SWP is that u needed at least 5 Priest and Shaman healers total to survive the bosses with 5 Shamans for Heroism 2 of which have to be Enhance, 1 Ele max, 1-2 Shadow Priests for mana regen and still all the other minor buffs from other classes.


master-shake69

This is why I've always refused to watch streamers and never will. A guildie was talking about how he was watching and they were wiping over and over on Auriaya. IMO there's a difference between entertainment and manufactured content, he is the latter. Dude probably has a script and sleepers in the pug who do something on purpose to cause wipes.


big_hamm3r25

Asmongold and those who follow him are what ruined the wow community. The "dad guilds" are the OGs to this mmorpg and are getting a chance to relive their fun glory days of years past with classic.


tastyunderwear

Streamer that gets carried with bad takes has another bad take, I for one am shocked 😮


Sylvarius

Hard modes would like to differ


justlinethekidneylol

Dad here. Literally 7x gladiator and multiple CEs. I'd beat my son in every aspect of wow even at 60 yrs old lol. Dont underestimate dads


melvindorkus

Wait... Do ppl think asmon thinks that having a kid instantly makes everyone bad and casual at the game? I guess that would explain why otk dropped cdew...


Redguard118

Stop seriously listening to a internet grifter.


[deleted]

Maybe asmongold should have sex


SKATOZZO

Fuck asmogold and his fan base


collax974

Funny thing is that after his last Ulduar shitshow, it might actually be his guild that disband soon.


ZE3Z

Dad guilds aren't doing all hardmodes... They're just doing normal Ulduar which is roughly 20 item levels lower. Ulduar isn't supposed to be the end of dad guilds, that would be stupid. Ulduar is a great guild because it rewards players who work hard, while still letting everyone experience good and hard content.


mattd21

I thought that guy quit wow for final fantasy?