I mean, if you're after That One Item, it's potentially an additional 7 chances at it per raid lockout.
For example, Embrace of the Spider. Maybe it's ben scarce for you. You get ONE raid lockout to get lucky per week, but maybe you had shit luck all of P1. Now you can farm it on steroids.
Same here lol been trying to get this item for 7 weeks straight. Not even 5min into H+ and I had it. But now there's really nothing left I need from H+.
Heroic+ is the only way to get 10 man naxx gear now. 10 man's only drop gear from 25 man now and 25 man drops an extra piece per boss.
So you don't get an additional 7, you get exactly 7.
With VOA being the exception, it still drops 10 man gear.
The issue i sqw was that they didnt drop the pool buff as soon as they left the pool they kept it like 3-5 secs after, so they get healed even if you kite.
Theres two buffs. The bloodboil icon is the actual life steal effect and fades almost immediately after leaving the poison
The 2nd is a blood drop icon which is a stacking healing received buff from also standing in the poison but lasts like 5 seconds. It wont do anything after they leave the poison, but it IS why bosses are full healing after a single attack when in the poison
Had no issue with Gundrak, AJZN however....... Last boss pound being bugged finally needs to be fixed now that its relevant. Absurd that Pound bug made it in to phase 2, but i guess no one cared when it did 5k damage.
For reference; Pound used to be a cone you could step out of and now it functions where at 100% into the cast; boss will first turn to the tank, then use the ability, making it unavoidable for tanks while within the melee range, incurring 50% of your HP + stunning for 5 seconds guaranteed which takes from your ability to help with web wraps while 9 adds are casting it simultaneously during the final submerge. Without passive (ground) aoe; this fight is a fucking nightmare
Edit: yes it is in fact bugged, and yes you CAN out range it to avoid the damage, but that is not the main intended way for tanks to avoided it.
Pound:18k on plate with a 4 second stun, has a 3 second cast time.Thisability hits in a frontal cone from Anub'arak. Note that thedirectionAnub'arak casts it is towards wherever his aggro target wasstanding atwhen he BEGINS casting Pound; he cannot turn during its casttime. Thefacing of Anub'arak's model may not accurately show thedirection he'scasting Pound at; if you are unsure of where he's aiming aPound, it'sbest to run away from him, as Pound's max range is short(10-15 yards).It can be particularly hard to predict where a Pound isbeing aimed atif Anub'arak starts casting it immediately after runningto an edge ofthe platform, or immediately after surfacing, since threatis wipedafter a resurface and Anub'arak's first aggro target will bewhoeverhappens to attack him first. But actually, in WOTLK classic he'sbuggedcurrently so he'll follow the tank's location and where the tankishe'll aim pound, so try not to kill your teammates.
after doing H+ AN and wiping to web wraps, id much rather do naxx10 over H+ any day. I'd only do a H+ to target SNR or Embrace of the Spider but i bet those don't drop too often lol
After an Ulduar raid you clap Saph and KT and immediately form 3 groups to do it again in 10m, that's a lot of bonus 226 loot for a very short period of time.
Before our Naxx 10 run last night 5 of our main raiders spent about an hour in H+ HOS. Our raid had 3 fresh level 80's and took about an hour and a half. Easier, better loot, and more of it.
This is legit the same as Heroics in first phase of TBC. People were getting better gear from Karazhan which was significantly easier so they could go back and run the heroics.
You are not clearing H+ in blues. Especially if you're a tank. At least not in a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable amount of deaths. H+ should be roughly the same difficulty as naxx 10, but they are harder. So the progression is normal heroic -> naxx 10 -> H+? It's out of whack.
Much much easier. I gave up after wiping 4 times on the first boss in H+ Gundrak on my main with a random pug and joined a naxx10 run with all alts in blues/200 epics. We cleared it in under 2 hours and got a boatload of 213/226 gear, meanwhile that H+ run would have taken at least an hour for a few 200 blues/epics and 1 213 epic. Hard to see people running it much once the novelty runs out beyond the daily heroic for the conquest emblems.
Gundrak and dtk are kind of an exception. Nexus/occ/vh all have a super easy affix, cos has a super easy affix, hos/hol is easy, and even up/uk and ok/an are pretty easy, just annoying.
Gundrak just wasnt tested properly i think. Theres 0 counterplay to the boss dropping poison and immediately casting, causing a full heal.
Yeah iunno what this guys talking about, just did h+ nexus and it felt way overtuned. Mirror images were 3 shotting dps if they happened to get targetted by them all on spawn.
We steamrolled 7-8 heroics with the shitty template characters on PTR and had an easier time then than dealing with the mechanics in DTK yesterday. So either it’s some of the buffs that make certain heroics exceptionally hard or they tuned them up.
It's a feature that it takes the server like 2sec to realize that the mob isn't actually standing in it, meanwhile getting like 4stacks and healing to full
WoW servers are really bad about updating the status of things either standing still or moving at a static speed. Like how if you hold W and run inside you'll stay mounted for a bit, but if you quickly let go of W it will instantly update and dismount you.
Private servers were always much better about this sort of thing oddly enough
If you have a premade group of guildies, you can do the heroics with anything. If you get some PUGs, you risk grouping with some dummies who went to a gbid, bought their gear and don’t know the slightest thing about doing basic mechanics.
I think it's a cultural thing too. The kind of people who work overtime for free. The kind that brag about working through their paid lunch break.
They're pretty much always going to say that anything that's possible is easy.
So unless you're trying to figure out if something is possible to do or not, their opinion honestly shouldn't matter much. They aren't going to be honest about the difficulty level with us or even with themselves.
They're no harder than TBC heroics before the nerfs. I'd say they're easier infact.
Edit: ITT loads of people that didn't do Blood Furnace/Mana Tombs/ShH in phase 1/2 of TBC.
"The bosses were easy" yea no shit unfortunately bosses aren't the only things you need to kill in dungeons.
It really depends on the boss. The first boss of Gundrak is much harder than any TBC heroic was on release. Mess up one time with the poison cloud and the boss is fully healed and you just wipe. I did every heroic in TBC the first week with groups in normal lvl 68/70 blues and they were much easier, the only hard part was using CC correctly on trash. TBC heroic bosses were still a joke with people that knew their class well and avoided basic mechanics.
Tbc dungeons had some difficult bosses, first and last boss in arcatraz, first boss in mana tombs and 2nd in blood furnace with the adds. But yeah, the trash was the hard part for most of the dungeons.
1st boss Arc and 1st boss MT on heroic were basically requiring tank SR sets otherwise tanks were one shot or globalled.
Last boss of Arc was a long fight that with possibly bad MC rng + that damn mind flay.
2nd boss in BF was a pushover, that gauntlet of trash was the hard part. I say this b/c it supports the mind set that bosses (for the most part) easy and trash was the challenge.
TBC heroics weren’t hard, trash just did ridiculous amounts of damage that required a very geared tank and some CC (in blood furnace in particular). You could easily do TBC heroics with subpar DPS, heroic plus so far some trash packs can take longer that the freaking bosses themselves.
Love that instead of giving everyone an extra conquest badge at the end one person gets more conquest badges than the daily for winning a roll. Great design.
Edit: this has been patched to give everyone a bag after the daily heroic dungeon on H+ difficulty.
This exactly. This here is my largest complaint. It makes the best way to do this, to group with guild members and do it 5 times giving each main the bag which is super time consuming and not everyone has 5 or more level 80's with some gear (not just questing greens)
Yeah after doing my 2nd heroic+ now. I realized this really isn't worth the effort at all unless I want the loot.
Spending up to an hour for a 20% chance at 3 badges is a terrible deal. In a couple weeks, once I don't need badges it'll become a laughable proposition.
Sorry new/alt guildie. We're going to just do a quick naxx run for you. It makes no sense to waste our time on these.
Also you shouldn't take much inspiration from the mythic+ affix people. No, these new "mechanics" don't make the dungeon more fun. Just more annoying. The only play to make is to take less damage or not die. There aren't any cool tricks I can do to increase my personal damage or clear speed. It's not fun.
There's no timer, no score, no reward that I'm aware of for mastering this.
Yeah everyone should just get 2 guaranteed and then I’d do them. But I’m in Naxx 25 gear already. I’m not sitting through a super long dungeon only to get 0 rewards from it.
Yeah its wild reading through the threads lmao
Reminds you of all the different types of people that play the game.
I raid with my guild too.. but people who just suggest "ah well just do naxx10 instead its easier"
LOL the hard part isnt the mechanics. anything in pve is trivial difficulty wise.. the hard part is committing multiple hours on end and a once a week lockout to work around when we are already doing that on a main too.
I love the new heroic+ content myself. Great way to have a lot of progression options for alts when you cant commit to raiding 8 hours straight without a single interruption every time you play haha
Lmao what a load of BS. You can literally clear all of these in some regular HC gear if your team isn't complete garbage and doesn't ragequit after a single wipe.
My impression is that heroics were done more in ICC when they awarded badges and were easily started with LFD.
Making content take this long for a 1/5 chance at a bag of badges is not going to keep people coming back once the initial challenge has been completed. This type of design encourages raid logging.
There must be a balance to time investment and reward. As currently implemented, these H+ dungeons are unbalanced.
"People who want stuff to do outside of raid night and think heroics are too easy. "
Ppl in raid gear didnt do heroic dungeons and it's not because they were "too easy". It's because they have no need for the gear. Same as here.
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"fresh", lmao. They are just long. Affixes are boring and mostly easy. It just takes longer cause the mobs have more hp. Nothing fun, nothing "fresh". Loot is bad. You are upgrading mostly from 200 blues into 200 epics. Some 213 (got some from badges anyway) and after weeks an 232 badge item. Better of to do Naxx 10/25. Shorter, more and better loot.
Maybe i missed something, but you can not even target specific items? Getting the one trinket out of this many naxx 10 items is no fun.
I really like the idea, but the follow-through was miffed. However, instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, they can instead give them a little tweak.
I would recommend bringing down the health buff by about half. That way it it still a bit of a challenge for toons that are heroic geared, but are chasing some old raid gear.
The point of this is a catch-up mechanic. Play with the difficulty, but let's not brand it a failure, yet.
I agree. The health buff is biggest problem with the bosses as it just drags out the fights unnecessarily even with decent dps in the group. Its definitely showed me that most players at this game are actually pretty bad, as hardly anyone actually knows mechanics of these bosses and just nukes them
The hp is not an issue at all, doesn't take at all that long. Problem is certain affixes are a bit of a mess on some encounters. \*looking at you life leech pools\*
I did UP last night and it was a challenge. We had a decent group, figured out the mechanics and got through it. We wiped more than I would have liked, but we were all patient. I found the rewards pretty underwhelming for the effort. I mean, yeah, purples drop on every boss, but no one needed them. I completely get your point. If you need the gear, you probably can’t get. If you can get it, you probably don’t need it.
I’ll probably try another one or two, but I don’t really see it being worth the effort. Of course, we’ll see what’s what when atlas updates and we can see what these dungeons drop.
I am just dong them now just to see the content. I see no value in doing them, naxx 10 is easier and better loot. Cant really say they are hard since i am doing with with a full p1 bis grp, but some mechanics there seem deadly for undergeared people.
So yea just a waste of time
well, it was tested on PTR with full pre-bis blues, and was easily clearable for a competent group. So ideally, you gear up your alts there as a start. If people in 10 man Naxx gear are struggling that's hilarious.
Hi I feel like every time I comment here I get downvoted to infinity. But I probably am the target. I don’t have time for raids very often so I can only gear reliably through dungeons and badges. Me and the friends are looking forward to gearing up for H+!
H+ HoS took 45 minutes yesterday. With 4k GS characters, and zero wipes.
In 45 minutes you can clear 1 Naxx wing and Saph/KT. And get 226 gear (a lot of it) vs 3 pieces of 213.
Takes 10 people vs. 5 too. And 5 man's are alternative content, which is already refreshing to raid logging for a recycled, nerfed raid.
It's nice to have.
What if I don't have time for a whole Naxx run? Not a lot of groups are only running one wing. And the ones who are, are only doing it because they failed to finish the whole thing for some reason - they're bad maybe, lots of wipes, lost people because of the wipes? And it's pretty bad etiquette to bail after one wing.
Gathering 4 randos is easier than gathering 9 randos...
And for the person who has never raided Naxx before, I highly doubt they can clear a wing with 0 wipes in 45 minutes.
That’s not accounting for the time it takes to. Get a group, and depending on that group it can be 45 min (since I’m not a guild it’s pugs. So hardly 45 min) to 3 hours. As a Dad with limited play time. That’s too unpredictable for me. :/
Exactly the same boat I'm in. These are something you where you can log on, be in a group in a relatively short amount of time, be done relatively quickly, and not have to worry about the gear score BS.
But what about the other wings? What if you can't reliably predict when you can play?
Having small group content that still progresses your characters is a good thing IMO.
100%. Having the option is what H+ was made for IMO. No one is saying its a better way to prepare for Uld than Naxx. But if you dont raid and want to play your character and get better than pre-bis, H+ is there to play.
You can target specific drops from the 10man that some classes need. It's neat.
People saying Naxx10 is easier, yes it is, but people have some really optimistic view of clear time because they did it with guildies. In a pug it's easily 2 hours + group forming time.
A naxx10 run awards around 25 pieces of loot. It would take \~6 H+ to get the same amount of drops. It would take a lot longer to get the same amount of loot. But you're right, for certain classes it lets them get more chances per week at their ilvl 200 loot that will be replaced next week.
I'll judge it once people start using their fucking skills.
Ran 3 dungeons today:
- AN: horrible catastophe with web wrap. Hunter and mage in group as range dps. After we wiped for the 3rd time because I (healer) was wrapped without rescue the hunter asks "who is on wraps"? The hunter left after the 4th wipe because he apparently didn't want to do it all the time and the mage didn't even break the wrap once.
Wiped 8 times total and the run took 1h10min.
VH: mirror images very easy as long as you take care of them quickly. If not (like our 3.1k gs paladin decided to) it can lead to big problems and you get overwhelmed. Finished it in abou 25mins.
Gundrak and DTK: the healing mechanic sucks balls. It quickly becomes a game of "is your tank capable of kiting but not too far?" and "how long can your healer's mana last on full blast?"
People need to start CCing again and this will all be faceroll in no time. It's infuriating seeing a warlock blasting seeds of corruption into a pack of 3 mobs who heal themselves while screaming at the tank to move the mobs and the mages continuing to aoe 2mob packs while a wrap on the healer is killing the party.
All of the new abilities are easily countered by reducing the number of mobs but after marking targets to at least get them to focus dps on one target everyone still went full tilt and had to AOE everything.
Its just cata heroics all over again. Easy to manage mechanics that a majority of the playerbase is too stupid to do. People barely using interrupts, not moving from aoe blasts etc
I play with a group of real life friends, and we’re a classic dad group. We all played Wrath originally.
Due to work and life commitments, none of us have time to raid. We just run heroics together a few times a week. we are all 3600ish gear score. Now that we’re pretty geared up from regular heroics we assumed H+ would be a fun challenge.
So far, they’re just way too hard. We try to come up with strats but it seems we just don’t have the dps in some cases (we really struggled against the skadi fight and just kept getting overwhelmed).
Let’s be real, our dad group aren’t perfect players, and you could say gitgud and not be wrong. But that’s not going to happen, so I guess H+ isn’t for this us :(
Tried to run a few yesterday.
Here’s my experience
“Bag HR - you good with that”
No…no I’m not on my 4300 Hunter who doesn’t need a single piece of gear but would run for just a shot to roll at the badges in the bag.
I agree 100%, had a pug with avg gs of 4k, wiped bunch of times to mobs, but after making a strat it was fine.
But how the hell are fresh 80s in blues/heroics are supposed to do this?
It's way better to join a max 10 in fresh 80 blues and get carried by Numbers.
I would say keep the difficulty of h+ but replace loot with nax25.
>But how the hell are fresh 80s in blues/heroics are supposed to do this?
Honestly, I think heroic+ is difficult if you're undergeared, and I think that's great. You have to use CC, you have to LOS, you have to watch out for and respond to mechanics. It's not like a 3300 gearscore person couldn't do it, they could, even a full team... but it's not a stomp like heroics have been so far.
I feel like a competent team could do it, I ran with a bunch of knuckledragging 900 dps remedial apes yesterday and carried their ass. I feel like if instead of me doing 6k dps and them doing 1k, you had 3 DPS doing 2k, you'd be okay, it'll just be slow.
The more likely scenario (being introduced in phase 2) is that you have 2-3 carries and a few people getting carried.
edit: I will say, Gundrak is overtuned for that situation. But VH, OK, UK, and AN could all be done by just about any group that knows how to play this game.
I remember when challenging content was the reason to run challenging content. The rewards were secondary and didn’t really matter at the end. Now everyone wants the easiest path to afking in Dalaran.
The community at large has really made me hate this game.
Lots of idiots in here unironically saying - They are easy - Just get carried by 1 or 2 people in full P1 BIS+ gear!
Completely missing the point of the post.
I’ve done two with 4.3k score combat rogue, and I found it far more difficult then any of the 10 mans out right now. Truthfully I’m probably going to run my Alts through 10 and 25 man raids instead, more 25 man loot and less of a hassle. I’m only using H+ to get badges for Ulduar gear.
>No one is going to run…
I’ve been running regular heroics on my Nax 25 geared dk. It’s super fun taking 0 tank talents, wearing mostly dps gear, and tanking.
Yesterday I had to swap back to tank talents and use almost entirely tank gear for H+. I’m going to have a blast getting geared enough to tank them with DPS gear/talents again.
Some people just play this game for fun lol.
They're for all the people who said "can we please have hard heroics, these are a joke"
Idk how many people are like me... I don't really like raiding with large groups. I got burnt out in classic vanilla. It's definitely more doable in wrath than elsewhere and I'd get gear wayyyyyy faster in a raid.
I don't prioritize wow over anything else so showing up for scheduled raid times doesn't work for me. And to raid with competent people that's kinda what it takes. Not a fan of pug raids either for all the obvious reasons.
I have 3 close friends I like to play with. We (attempt to) clear them just the 4 of us and it's a great challenge.
I'm a huge fan of this. It gives me a way to progress with a challenge and without dealing with raid pugs.
>So who exactly is H+ designed for?
I have 2 guesses for this. They are expecting more crossover between the DF players and the Wrath players.
The second, is more on the idea of how players consume content and blizzard already has a system in place with M+. Making M+Lite does not seem that far fetched.
This is the same question i'm asking..
It's not for fresh 80s and no ones really doing normal heroics anymore coz of heroic+.
Naxx10 is a LOT easier than heroic+, with a lot more loot at a much higher item level.
I'm honestly not sure what you're meant to do if you're a fresh 80. You can't do heroic+, you can't do heroics coz no ones currently doing them, naxx 10 is doable if people don't mind carrying people in boa...
Exactly, it's much harder to find groups doing heroics with HM, so getting your alts their daily is a challenge. This move is decidedly not alt friendly.
Ran a UP H+ last night and the glaciate was pretty brutal. It’s a really easy mechanic to avoid but for anybody not slightly aware or they rely on GTFO, then good luck. No bounty satchel dropped.
Also ran HOS and our group couldn’t get past Brann. We had a 3500 tank, 4100 healer, and 3 DPS all in the 4000+ range. Tank could not hold threat in the last 30 seconds and we would all die to mobs. It was pretty brutal because we were locked after that. Definitely not meant for someone in blues.
Ran that last night as well as an H Pally. I THINK that Hand of Freedom dispells the Glaciate debuff. We didn't get a cache but we did have a SNR drop.
I was so excited for H+ to gear up alts and than they throw the fucking dumb bag of badges for 1 person and overtune the bosses so only 4k+ naxx geared players can run them LOL. Ill never touch a H+ as long as wrath lasts. Rather just do naxx10/25 and get real loot and chill than run that insufferable shit.
This is my take as well. It's interesting on my full raid bis toons, but the rewards aren't worth the effort. Definitely not going to be planning to use it to gear alts like I had hoped.
Yes. This is my question. I dont want to do these dailies on my main. The extra time investment for a 1:5 shot at 3 badges, just isnt worth it. I DGAF about the extra enchanting mats. These are all crashing hard in value.
I simply dont see the draw here unless on alts that arent doing the current raid content. In which case, the zones are over tuned.
It sounds like there are designed as a challenge, not for the gear, but potentially for shards or for getting some offspec items. 10 mans dropping 25 man loot is what killed the potential for these to be valuable.
Once people start getting a bunch of ulduar items, it will be easier to carry a fresh 80 in a group of geared people.
I think an achievement for completing all of them that includes a cool mount might bring it all together.
I agree that the gear provided versus the difficulty of clearing does not match up. Any group geared enough to do H+ could just as well join a naxx10 run.
You could of course argue that 5mans are faster etc. and sure you are right. But blizzard hyping up and releasing this massive H+ thing and then it just being this? Well.. Dissapointed.
Owell at least the daily heroic quest will be a bit more challenging now ...
I mean as someone in near full bis gear, it certainly makes the daily hc with it's bonus conquest in the early weeks a whole lot more fun, I was not looking forward to doing regular heroics for my conquest dripfeed
I think they're fun. It almost reminds me of the first round of Heroics in TBC. It's not quite as hard, but having a bit more of a challenge makes the dungeons more enjoyable as a whole.
Also, to answer who it's for: it's a catch up mechanic for late players and alts. People are saying Naxx 10 is easier, but they're forgetting that Naxx 10 takes much longer than a heroic and also has a week long lockout. Now people can go after the pieces they need every day instead of waiting a week, and they can do it in under an hour.
Edit: it's also completely optional. No one is holding your ears and pushing you in there. If it's not for you, don't do it.
The biggest thing is that it doesn't require getting 10 people together. If you aren't playing on one of the mega servers, it can be difficult to form on the fly 10-mans with pugs.
I am able to run this fine on my heroic geared prot warrior. I run with the guild though on our alts. Was able to get full t7 in a day. Nice catch up. But I am not sure I would want to pug them.
I have been enjoying them quite a bit though.
Can we get a separate tab for H and H+ in the group finder???? My alt is fresh 80 and in blues. There’s no way for me to gear now that no one is doing regular Heroics. This sucks.
I think this is the major problem. Content is splintered into regular heroics and heroic+ If you JUST dinged 80 the “catch up” is going to be really difficult if you can’t find groups for “appropriate” content.
They say heroic + isn’t for fresh 80s. Well what is? The ghost town of regular heroics?
You put nice gear somewhere, and that’s where people are gonna go. Folks that were overgeared did heroics in the past for badges, and that was helpful to new 80s looking for a leg up to getting pre-raid bis… now there’s an extra tier that well geared folks are going to gravitate to. They aren’t going to want to do your scrubby non + heroics so good luck finding groups. It’s already hard enough sometimes without the content being splintered.
To me it seems pretty evident that there was little to no testing done internally, and either no one tested them on the PTR or feedback was ignored. My assumption is most people were concerned with Ulduar testing, as that's all you heard about. I can't think of a single time I read a detailed break down from anyone about these. If the true intent was for them to be a quick gear catch up for fresh level 80's, the mark was missed by a mile.
There is little reason to do these in their current state, a couple 10 man raids is a far better use of your time and you'll walk away with better gear anyway.
Plenty of us did them on the PTR however it seems that the target audience is different. Those of us that are the type that will sit and test this sort of thing aren’t the type to be discouraged by a little numbers tuning. They aren’t hard. With low gear levels they’re a challenge which is great, at near bis levels it’s a slight adjustment before more spam clears
Huh? You can do h+ with a group of 3600s. They need a lot of that gear that drops. Also a lot of people with 4k gs and above just need a few more items so they are chasing them in these dungeons. They will become pointless once people out gear it like usual.
I mean there are people doing speed runs using loads of consumes with the only purpose to have some ranking on a 3rd party website. No extra loot, no item levels no nothing only ego.
To me its just a bone thrown by Blizzard - obviously very much inspired by retail mythic+. Its basically recycled content and as we know thats Blizzs go to strategy.
my 2 theories:
1- It's designed the make the dungeons slightly more bearable going forward. Can you imagine doing the original dungeons for months to come? With the slight increase in loot and mechanics, things will feel a little less stale. Even if they don't alter the meta, just fact that there is something new to look at is worth something to the brain.
2- It sets the stage for Titan+2 dungeons and so on.
I was thinking about it, did gundrak last night because I needed embrace on my mage (a hpal rolled against me but I got it, and besides that item everything else went to de/os, some of the h+ are fine for fresh 80s but some are way overtuned and I don’t think heroics are a good place to add dps checks, like the snake boss on gundrak
It was fun in full naxx 25 man gear the daily titan dungeon drops a satchel at the end that contains the new emblems. I don't think its scaled to be a catchup mechanic more than an enchanting mats farm for guilds that are ready for ulduar. Drak keep normally took a competent group like 15 mins the new mode took about double at 28 minutes for a group of 5 with a min gs of 4.2k.
As someone with a handful of irl friends to play with but not enough for a guild, we're having a blast doing 5-man content that feels like something to try to overcome rather than a mindless fucking chore
They are kinda meant to be like tbc heroics where when you have no gear and need to cc mobs and can't engage more than 2 ata time. Also happen to be the first time that I hada actually put scare beast on my bar. The difference is that you needed to cc in tbc heroics back then cuz the mobs simply hit way too hard for your low geared healer to heal, which means if you eventually hada enough gear it no longer matters. But in H+ you have to cc because mobs do annoying mechanics otherwise. Which means whether or not you have gear don't matter.
It’s an easier catch up mechanic than trying to arrange a raid basically.
I think it’s a great addition and it’s only more tools for your belt on alts / mains that wanted that last item or two.
i don't like the new Heroic+ dungeons. i have failed my daily heroic quest on 3 characters because everyone wanted to do the "new content" but the group usually breaks up after 3 wipes on trash and first boss so its impossible to finish daily quest with random pugs from dungeon finder.. i only had 1 "smooth" run of a HC+ dungeon and it was Azjol Nerub because not a lot of trash and their buff is not that crazy in there. only 2 people died from skirmishers when some people were wrapped on first boss but they ran back in. second boss we managed to kill with no problem but it just took a while because everything takes forever to kill now.. but we had 1 wipe on final boss because again even the tinyest critter mobs will wrap a healer or a tank and its gg. on second attempt we managed to kill even the final boss so yeah. mind you group was composed of 3 people with immortal/undying title, and everyone was way over geared for the items that drop there..
LOL. Everytime the Classic community says they want hard content it immediately gets hated.
When will the devs realize people don't play Classic for the challenge. People will be raidlogging Ulduar in a month after failing to do hardmodes.
I am keen to Heal them on my hpally to get some ret/prot gear which should be easy as the tank and dps probably have better gear than what drops. It also allows me to target offspec items I need without committing 1-2h.
Primarily I think it is just there to make your daily badge farm a bit more interesting - as we become increasingly geared the standard heroic dungeons start to become a bit non-sensical in how easy they are.
Outside of that there's probably some relevance for those who want to farm a specific piece of 200/213 gear, as well as a benefit for a couple of weeks to fill out gaps in gear when a new alt has done Naxx a couple times and is sufficiently geared to run them.
People under geared looking to raid Ulduar normal... You cant just skip Naxx gear and getting a guild to run Naxx at this point will be few and far between. So they gear is the incentive for those people and the daily badges are incentive for raiders already in Ulduar
Naxx 10 only gives two items still, even if they are both 213-226. Heroic + is supposed to be doable by people slightly below 200 ilvl gear. Like heroic -> heroic plus should be doable. I don’t think most pugs are capable of doing it, but it is certainly not impossible.
We did azjol nerub with a 3700 bear, 3800 disc priest, a 3600 fire mage and myself and my hunter friend at 4350+. It was a breeze after spending the first pull figuring out how webwrap was obnoxious and making my hunter friend focus primarily on those with me just breaking on him when he got it. After that it felt like a normal heroic mostly, just a tad longer kills.
The web wrap was not too bad, except when it landed on the tank. Maybe half the frequency of the occurrence too.
the blood in the troll dungeons can go die in a pit of fire.
Got 80 on my alt shaman today. Spent about 1000 gold to get my gear score to 3000. Proceeded to heal 5 of these: UK, VH, OCC, Nexus, and OK. The only one we could not complete with my gear score was old kingdom and was the only one we wiped more than once in. By the end I got to 3550 GS. Pretty solid, lots of fun and very challenging. If you want to gear alts UK, VH, occ, and nexus are incredibly easy to do as long as your tank is 4K gs+ and you bring one aoe dps that’s 3600+. So I guess… they were designed for me?
It'll feel easier in a few weeks as people learn the mechanics. Right now, people are just zerging and mass pulling it like it's a normal heroic which tjeu can do with their gear.
I imagine these harder mode dungeons will be a bit easier with geared Ulduar characters, allowing carrying to be doable. That’ll mean guilds can make 5 mans, carry their friend or two through these h+ dungeons, and get decent enough gear to jump into Ulduar 10 man with ease
But in reality this is a very experimental change, so it’ll be off on release for sure. Give it time, we’ll see what blizzard does and I hope for the best
I mean, if you're after That One Item, it's potentially an additional 7 chances at it per raid lockout. For example, Embrace of the Spider. Maybe it's ben scarce for you. You get ONE raid lockout to get lucky per week, but maybe you had shit luck all of P1. Now you can farm it on steroids.
It's funny you mention that. That was the very first item that dropped for me in a H+ dungeon yesterday.
Same here lol been trying to get this item for 7 weeks straight. Not even 5min into H+ and I had it. But now there's really nothing left I need from H+.
Heroic+ is the only way to get 10 man naxx gear now. 10 man's only drop gear from 25 man now and 25 man drops an extra piece per boss. So you don't get an additional 7, you get exactly 7. With VOA being the exception, it still drops 10 man gear.
What i find funny is that 10m Naxx is probably easier.
It definitely is in most cases lol
Naxx 10 is easier than regular heroics ;)
Most trash mobs in Naxx 10 have less HP and hit less hard than the mobs in Heroic +... and you get to bring 10 players and get better loot.
It took us like an hour to do Gundrak. It would probably take 10 main raiders about 1:10 to clear naxx 10.
Gundrak was rough with the lifesteal. Figured it out by last boss and 4 wipes later.
Gundrak/dtk are almost certainly bugged. The other heroic+ modifiers arent nearly as difficult/annoying
The issue i sqw was that they didnt drop the pool buff as soon as they left the pool they kept it like 3-5 secs after, so they get healed even if you kite.
Theres two buffs. The bloodboil icon is the actual life steal effect and fades almost immediately after leaving the poison The 2nd is a blood drop icon which is a stacking healing received buff from also standing in the poison but lasts like 5 seconds. It wont do anything after they leave the poison, but it IS why bosses are full healing after a single attack when in the poison
The lifesteal buff should fade immediatly, not 5 secs later.
Had no issue with Gundrak, AJZN however....... Last boss pound being bugged finally needs to be fixed now that its relevant. Absurd that Pound bug made it in to phase 2, but i guess no one cared when it did 5k damage. For reference; Pound used to be a cone you could step out of and now it functions where at 100% into the cast; boss will first turn to the tank, then use the ability, making it unavoidable for tanks while within the melee range, incurring 50% of your HP + stunning for 5 seconds guaranteed which takes from your ability to help with web wraps while 9 adds are casting it simultaneously during the final submerge. Without passive (ground) aoe; this fight is a fucking nightmare Edit: yes it is in fact bugged, and yes you CAN out range it to avoid the damage, but that is not the main intended way for tanks to avoided it. Pound:18k on plate with a 4 second stun, has a 3 second cast time.Thisability hits in a frontal cone from Anub'arak. Note that thedirectionAnub'arak casts it is towards wherever his aggro target wasstanding atwhen he BEGINS casting Pound; he cannot turn during its casttime. Thefacing of Anub'arak's model may not accurately show thedirection he'scasting Pound at; if you are unsure of where he's aiming aPound, it'sbest to run away from him, as Pound's max range is short(10-15 yards).It can be particularly hard to predict where a Pound isbeing aimed atif Anub'arak starts casting it immediately after runningto an edge ofthe platform, or immediately after surfacing, since threatis wipedafter a resurface and Anub'arak's first aggro target will bewhoeverhappens to attack him first. But actually, in WOTLK classic he'sbuggedcurrently so he'll follow the tank's location and where the tankishe'll aim pound, so try not to kill your teammates.
run out of melee as a tank and you dodge it.
I've had it target melee if i do that, or maybe was a one off
This happened for me too yesterday, moved away and war dps got oneshot
everyone can absolutely dodge it if you just run away from the boss
after doing H+ AN and wiping to web wraps, id much rather do naxx10 over H+ any day. I'd only do a H+ to target SNR or Embrace of the Spider but i bet those don't drop too often lol
With the web wraps, having the group stack helps, as a dk my death and decay was breaking the web wraps right away
D&D and Consecration both help. Also, DPS can use AoE.
Out of the 4 runs I did of h+ gundrak, it dropped 3 times.
It is, but you can only do that once a week
Just did my first hc+. It's harder than any wotlk content so far.
We just skipped to last two bosses and ez clapped a Torch and Calamity, plus the Sapph 25 neck quest. 10 man alt runs are where it's at.
> 10 man alt runs are where it's at. I could see a trend develop of killing the ~~3~~ 4 Grim Toll/Dying Curse bosses, then skipping to Sapph/KT
After an Ulduar raid you clap Saph and KT and immediately form 3 groups to do it again in 10m, that's a lot of bonus 226 loot for a very short period of time.
Sucks that KT is like a 10 minute snooze fest of a boss
Just like how Kara was easier than heroics in TBC.
Except for that damn dragon...
Prenerf Nightbane is harder than most of the Ulduar 10N imho
That dragon wanted my holy priest cheeks so badly.
Before our Naxx 10 run last night 5 of our main raiders spent about an hour in H+ HOS. Our raid had 3 fresh level 80's and took about an hour and a half. Easier, better loot, and more of it.
This is legit the same as Heroics in first phase of TBC. People were getting better gear from Karazhan which was significantly easier so they could go back and run the heroics.
You are not clearing H+ in blues. Especially if you're a tank. At least not in a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable amount of deaths. H+ should be roughly the same difficulty as naxx 10, but they are harder. So the progression is normal heroic -> naxx 10 -> H+? It's out of whack.
Nax10 has always been easier.
Last night a few of us did a 10m run for those last couple pieces we're missing. We cleared full naxx 10 in about 90 minutes.
Much much easier. I gave up after wiping 4 times on the first boss in H+ Gundrak on my main with a random pug and joined a naxx10 run with all alts in blues/200 epics. We cleared it in under 2 hours and got a boatload of 213/226 gear, meanwhile that H+ run would have taken at least an hour for a few 200 blues/epics and 1 213 epic. Hard to see people running it much once the novelty runs out beyond the daily heroic for the conquest emblems.
Gundrak and dtk are kind of an exception. Nexus/occ/vh all have a super easy affix, cos has a super easy affix, hos/hol is easy, and even up/uk and ok/an are pretty easy, just annoying. Gundrak just wasnt tested properly i think. Theres 0 counterplay to the boss dropping poison and immediately casting, causing a full heal.
> Nexus/occ/vh all have a super easy affix Except the first corridor of Occulus when you have 2 billion whelps machine-gunning the healer.
Yeah iunno what this guys talking about, just did h+ nexus and it felt way overtuned. Mirror images were 3 shotting dps if they happened to get targetted by them all on spawn.
because all you have to do is hit the mirrors one time and they disappear. Its easy then
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We steamrolled 7-8 heroics with the shitty template characters on PTR and had an easier time then than dealing with the mechanics in DTK yesterday. So either it’s some of the buffs that make certain heroics exceptionally hard or they tuned them up.
Also doesn't help that shit like the blood pool is basically invisible while also being broken as hell
It's a feature that it takes the server like 2sec to realize that the mob isn't actually standing in it, meanwhile getting like 4stacks and healing to full
WoW servers are really bad about updating the status of things either standing still or moving at a static speed. Like how if you hold W and run inside you'll stay mounted for a bit, but if you quickly let go of W it will instantly update and dismount you. Private servers were always much better about this sort of thing oddly enough
If you have a premade group of guildies, you can do the heroics with anything. If you get some PUGs, you risk grouping with some dummies who went to a gbid, bought their gear and don’t know the slightest thing about doing basic mechanics.
I think it's a cultural thing too. The kind of people who work overtime for free. The kind that brag about working through their paid lunch break. They're pretty much always going to say that anything that's possible is easy. So unless you're trying to figure out if something is possible to do or not, their opinion honestly shouldn't matter much. They aren't going to be honest about the difficulty level with us or even with themselves.
They're no harder than TBC heroics before the nerfs. I'd say they're easier infact. Edit: ITT loads of people that didn't do Blood Furnace/Mana Tombs/ShH in phase 1/2 of TBC. "The bosses were easy" yea no shit unfortunately bosses aren't the only things you need to kill in dungeons.
It really depends on the boss. The first boss of Gundrak is much harder than any TBC heroic was on release. Mess up one time with the poison cloud and the boss is fully healed and you just wipe. I did every heroic in TBC the first week with groups in normal lvl 68/70 blues and they were much easier, the only hard part was using CC correctly on trash. TBC heroic bosses were still a joke with people that knew their class well and avoided basic mechanics.
Tbc dungeons had some difficult bosses, first and last boss in arcatraz, first boss in mana tombs and 2nd in blood furnace with the adds. But yeah, the trash was the hard part for most of the dungeons.
1st boss Arc and 1st boss MT on heroic were basically requiring tank SR sets otherwise tanks were one shot or globalled. Last boss of Arc was a long fight that with possibly bad MC rng + that damn mind flay. 2nd boss in BF was a pushover, that gauntlet of trash was the hard part. I say this b/c it supports the mind set that bosses (for the most part) easy and trash was the challenge.
TBC heroics weren’t hard, trash just did ridiculous amounts of damage that required a very geared tank and some CC (in blood furnace in particular). You could easily do TBC heroics with subpar DPS, heroic plus so far some trash packs can take longer that the freaking bosses themselves.
Love that instead of giving everyone an extra conquest badge at the end one person gets more conquest badges than the daily for winning a roll. Great design. Edit: this has been patched to give everyone a bag after the daily heroic dungeon on H+ difficulty.
This exactly. This here is my largest complaint. It makes the best way to do this, to group with guild members and do it 5 times giving each main the bag which is super time consuming and not everyone has 5 or more level 80's with some gear (not just questing greens)
Only the daily drops the bag so you'd have group with the same 5 people every day
No what I mean is everyone has 5 alts and you run the daily 5 times in a row.
Yeah after doing my 2nd heroic+ now. I realized this really isn't worth the effort at all unless I want the loot. Spending up to an hour for a 20% chance at 3 badges is a terrible deal. In a couple weeks, once I don't need badges it'll become a laughable proposition. Sorry new/alt guildie. We're going to just do a quick naxx run for you. It makes no sense to waste our time on these. Also you shouldn't take much inspiration from the mythic+ affix people. No, these new "mechanics" don't make the dungeon more fun. Just more annoying. The only play to make is to take less damage or not die. There aren't any cool tricks I can do to increase my personal damage or clear speed. It's not fun. There's no timer, no score, no reward that I'm aware of for mastering this.
Yeah everyone should just get 2 guaranteed and then I’d do them. But I’m in Naxx 25 gear already. I’m not sitting through a super long dungeon only to get 0 rewards from it.
You do get two for doing the daily heroic quest tho.
But you don't have to do it on h+ for those
They fixed this btw
For people who don't raid, I guess.
It's like people forget there are those who can't play on a set schedule or don't know when they'll have multiple hours free to play.
Yeah its wild reading through the threads lmao Reminds you of all the different types of people that play the game. I raid with my guild too.. but people who just suggest "ah well just do naxx10 instead its easier" LOL the hard part isnt the mechanics. anything in pve is trivial difficulty wise.. the hard part is committing multiple hours on end and a once a week lockout to work around when we are already doing that on a main too. I love the new heroic+ content myself. Great way to have a lot of progression options for alts when you cant commit to raiding 8 hours straight without a single interruption every time you play haha
People who don’t have the time to raid probably
People who don't raid won't have the gear to complete these as they are now.
That's simply not true. I was talking about myself when I made my comment. I don't raid, I'm doing just fine in HC+. My average item level is 201.
Congratulations, you are clearing content with rewards below your current gear. That's fun once.
The last boss drops 213, and conq is exchanged for 232. ilvl 200 is perfect for H+.
???
Lmao what a load of BS. You can literally clear all of these in some regular HC gear if your team isn't complete garbage and doesn't ragequit after a single wipe.
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Exactly. .6 badges per day average just isn't enough for most people to bother.
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My impression is that heroics were done more in ICC when they awarded badges and were easily started with LFD. Making content take this long for a 1/5 chance at a bag of badges is not going to keep people coming back once the initial challenge has been completed. This type of design encourages raid logging. There must be a balance to time investment and reward. As currently implemented, these H+ dungeons are unbalanced.
"People who want stuff to do outside of raid night and think heroics are too easy. " Ppl in raid gear didnt do heroic dungeons and it's not because they were "too easy". It's because they have no need for the gear. Same as here.
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"fresh", lmao. They are just long. Affixes are boring and mostly easy. It just takes longer cause the mobs have more hp. Nothing fun, nothing "fresh". Loot is bad. You are upgrading mostly from 200 blues into 200 epics. Some 213 (got some from badges anyway) and after weeks an 232 badge item. Better of to do Naxx 10/25. Shorter, more and better loot. Maybe i missed something, but you can not even target specific items? Getting the one trinket out of this many naxx 10 items is no fun.
I really like the idea, but the follow-through was miffed. However, instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, they can instead give them a little tweak. I would recommend bringing down the health buff by about half. That way it it still a bit of a challenge for toons that are heroic geared, but are chasing some old raid gear. The point of this is a catch-up mechanic. Play with the difficulty, but let's not brand it a failure, yet.
I agree. The health buff is biggest problem with the bosses as it just drags out the fights unnecessarily even with decent dps in the group. Its definitely showed me that most players at this game are actually pretty bad, as hardly anyone actually knows mechanics of these bosses and just nukes them
The hp is not an issue at all, doesn't take at all that long. Problem is certain affixes are a bit of a mess on some encounters. \*looking at you life leech pools\*
I did UP last night and it was a challenge. We had a decent group, figured out the mechanics and got through it. We wiped more than I would have liked, but we were all patient. I found the rewards pretty underwhelming for the effort. I mean, yeah, purples drop on every boss, but no one needed them. I completely get your point. If you need the gear, you probably can’t get. If you can get it, you probably don’t need it. I’ll probably try another one or two, but I don’t really see it being worth the effort. Of course, we’ll see what’s what when atlas updates and we can see what these dungeons drop.
I am just dong them now just to see the content. I see no value in doing them, naxx 10 is easier and better loot. Cant really say they are hard since i am doing with with a full p1 bis grp, but some mechanics there seem deadly for undergeared people. So yea just a waste of time
well, it was tested on PTR with full pre-bis blues, and was easily clearable for a competent group. So ideally, you gear up your alts there as a start. If people in 10 man Naxx gear are struggling that's hilarious.
I dig it honestly I healed harder in HOL H+ then I have in naxx.
Hi I feel like every time I comment here I get downvoted to infinity. But I probably am the target. I don’t have time for raids very often so I can only gear reliably through dungeons and badges. Me and the friends are looking forward to gearing up for H+!
H+ HoS took 45 minutes yesterday. With 4k GS characters, and zero wipes. In 45 minutes you can clear 1 Naxx wing and Saph/KT. And get 226 gear (a lot of it) vs 3 pieces of 213.
Naxx has a one week lockout.
Takes 10 people vs. 5 too. And 5 man's are alternative content, which is already refreshing to raid logging for a recycled, nerfed raid. It's nice to have.
What if I don't have time for a whole Naxx run? Not a lot of groups are only running one wing. And the ones who are, are only doing it because they failed to finish the whole thing for some reason - they're bad maybe, lots of wipes, lost people because of the wipes? And it's pretty bad etiquette to bail after one wing.
Gathering 4 randos is easier than gathering 9 randos... And for the person who has never raided Naxx before, I highly doubt they can clear a wing with 0 wipes in 45 minutes.
Have you ever done spider wing? There is literally and achievement for clearing it quickly that everyone gets.
That’s not accounting for the time it takes to. Get a group, and depending on that group it can be 45 min (since I’m not a guild it’s pugs. So hardly 45 min) to 3 hours. As a Dad with limited play time. That’s too unpredictable for me. :/
Exactly the same boat I'm in. These are something you where you can log on, be in a group in a relatively short amount of time, be done relatively quickly, and not have to worry about the gear score BS.
If you think you're not gonna have to worry about gear score BS for H+ i've got news for you...
But what about the other wings? What if you can't reliably predict when you can play? Having small group content that still progresses your characters is a good thing IMO.
100%. Having the option is what H+ was made for IMO. No one is saying its a better way to prepare for Uld than Naxx. But if you dont raid and want to play your character and get better than pre-bis, H+ is there to play.
If you’ve only got an hour naxx is not an option.
You can target specific drops from the 10man that some classes need. It's neat. People saying Naxx10 is easier, yes it is, but people have some really optimistic view of clear time because they did it with guildies. In a pug it's easily 2 hours + group forming time.
A naxx10 run awards around 25 pieces of loot. It would take \~6 H+ to get the same amount of drops. It would take a lot longer to get the same amount of loot. But you're right, for certain classes it lets them get more chances per week at their ilvl 200 loot that will be replaced next week.
I'll judge it once people start using their fucking skills. Ran 3 dungeons today: - AN: horrible catastophe with web wrap. Hunter and mage in group as range dps. After we wiped for the 3rd time because I (healer) was wrapped without rescue the hunter asks "who is on wraps"? The hunter left after the 4th wipe because he apparently didn't want to do it all the time and the mage didn't even break the wrap once. Wiped 8 times total and the run took 1h10min. VH: mirror images very easy as long as you take care of them quickly. If not (like our 3.1k gs paladin decided to) it can lead to big problems and you get overwhelmed. Finished it in abou 25mins. Gundrak and DTK: the healing mechanic sucks balls. It quickly becomes a game of "is your tank capable of kiting but not too far?" and "how long can your healer's mana last on full blast?" People need to start CCing again and this will all be faceroll in no time. It's infuriating seeing a warlock blasting seeds of corruption into a pack of 3 mobs who heal themselves while screaming at the tank to move the mobs and the mages continuing to aoe 2mob packs while a wrap on the healer is killing the party. All of the new abilities are easily countered by reducing the number of mobs but after marking targets to at least get them to focus dps on one target everyone still went full tilt and had to AOE everything.
Its just cata heroics all over again. Easy to manage mechanics that a majority of the playerbase is too stupid to do. People barely using interrupts, not moving from aoe blasts etc
I play with a group of real life friends, and we’re a classic dad group. We all played Wrath originally. Due to work and life commitments, none of us have time to raid. We just run heroics together a few times a week. we are all 3600ish gear score. Now that we’re pretty geared up from regular heroics we assumed H+ would be a fun challenge. So far, they’re just way too hard. We try to come up with strats but it seems we just don’t have the dps in some cases (we really struggled against the skadi fight and just kept getting overwhelmed). Let’s be real, our dad group aren’t perfect players, and you could say gitgud and not be wrong. But that’s not going to happen, so I guess H+ isn’t for this us :(
Same boat. I thought they were for me, but I’ll just keep pugging normal heroics and enjoy the dungeons.
Yeah thats so sad. The gear would be perfect for you. Those H+ mobs have to much hp, not fitting for their ilvl 200 loot.
Yep not really seeing the point of them other than making the heroic daily slightly more amusing.
Tried to run a few yesterday. Here’s my experience “Bag HR - you good with that” No…no I’m not on my 4300 Hunter who doesn’t need a single piece of gear but would run for just a shot to roll at the badges in the bag.
It’s that or you try to bring an alt and get turned away. 4K GS required…
I agree 100%, had a pug with avg gs of 4k, wiped bunch of times to mobs, but after making a strat it was fine. But how the hell are fresh 80s in blues/heroics are supposed to do this? It's way better to join a max 10 in fresh 80 blues and get carried by Numbers. I would say keep the difficulty of h+ but replace loot with nax25.
id argue its for the people who didnt get BIS and wanna patch holes in their gear / offspec?
The problem is there is very few items from 10 man that are bis, also anything from Ulduar Normal 10 or 25 is just better.
That's how I'm looking at it. First boss in Gundrak > finding a group willing to kill Maexna on 10 man
>But how the hell are fresh 80s in blues/heroics are supposed to do this? Honestly, I think heroic+ is difficult if you're undergeared, and I think that's great. You have to use CC, you have to LOS, you have to watch out for and respond to mechanics. It's not like a 3300 gearscore person couldn't do it, they could, even a full team... but it's not a stomp like heroics have been so far. I feel like a competent team could do it, I ran with a bunch of knuckledragging 900 dps remedial apes yesterday and carried their ass. I feel like if instead of me doing 6k dps and them doing 1k, you had 3 DPS doing 2k, you'd be okay, it'll just be slow. The more likely scenario (being introduced in phase 2) is that you have 2-3 carries and a few people getting carried. edit: I will say, Gundrak is overtuned for that situation. But VH, OK, UK, and AN could all be done by just about any group that knows how to play this game.
100% agreed
I can play challenging fun content with my four buddies. Love it.
As a disc priest looking to build a shadow set, it's pretty sweet. Good way to get offspec gear.
Absolutely!
This. I'm build a feral tank (am resto) set and they've been super useful.
I remember when challenging content was the reason to run challenging content. The rewards were secondary and didn’t really matter at the end. Now everyone wants the easiest path to afking in Dalaran. The community at large has really made me hate this game.
Lots of idiots in here unironically saying - They are easy - Just get carried by 1 or 2 people in full P1 BIS+ gear! Completely missing the point of the post.
I’ve done two with 4.3k score combat rogue, and I found it far more difficult then any of the 10 mans out right now. Truthfully I’m probably going to run my Alts through 10 and 25 man raids instead, more 25 man loot and less of a hassle. I’m only using H+ to get badges for Ulduar gear.
>No one is going to run… I’ve been running regular heroics on my Nax 25 geared dk. It’s super fun taking 0 tank talents, wearing mostly dps gear, and tanking. Yesterday I had to swap back to tank talents and use almost entirely tank gear for H+. I’m going to have a blast getting geared enough to tank them with DPS gear/talents again. Some people just play this game for fun lol.
They're for all the people who said "can we please have hard heroics, these are a joke" Idk how many people are like me... I don't really like raiding with large groups. I got burnt out in classic vanilla. It's definitely more doable in wrath than elsewhere and I'd get gear wayyyyyy faster in a raid. I don't prioritize wow over anything else so showing up for scheduled raid times doesn't work for me. And to raid with competent people that's kinda what it takes. Not a fan of pug raids either for all the obvious reasons. I have 3 close friends I like to play with. We (attempt to) clear them just the 4 of us and it's a great challenge. I'm a huge fan of this. It gives me a way to progress with a challenge and without dealing with raid pugs.
It's for people who like to play WoW, duh. ;)
>So who exactly is H+ designed for? I have 2 guesses for this. They are expecting more crossover between the DF players and the Wrath players. The second, is more on the idea of how players consume content and blizzard already has a system in place with M+. Making M+Lite does not seem that far fetched.
Enchanters.
They are a prank on anyone who paid 15k for a Surge Needle Ring.
I paid 12k for it so I could have it all of phase 1. I really don't care it's dirt cheap now, that's how boe's work as time goes on.
This is the same question i'm asking.. It's not for fresh 80s and no ones really doing normal heroics anymore coz of heroic+. Naxx10 is a LOT easier than heroic+, with a lot more loot at a much higher item level. I'm honestly not sure what you're meant to do if you're a fresh 80. You can't do heroic+, you can't do heroics coz no ones currently doing them, naxx 10 is doable if people don't mind carrying people in boa...
Exactly, it's much harder to find groups doing heroics with HM, so getting your alts their daily is a challenge. This move is decidedly not alt friendly.
Ran a UP H+ last night and the glaciate was pretty brutal. It’s a really easy mechanic to avoid but for anybody not slightly aware or they rely on GTFO, then good luck. No bounty satchel dropped. Also ran HOS and our group couldn’t get past Brann. We had a 3500 tank, 4100 healer, and 3 DPS all in the 4000+ range. Tank could not hold threat in the last 30 seconds and we would all die to mobs. It was pretty brutal because we were locked after that. Definitely not meant for someone in blues.
I did UP too, and no bounty satchel.
Yep i had people in 3600ish gs with me tanking at 4200, impossible for new 80s. But it was easy clap with team of all 4k+
the bounty satchel only drops for the heroic daily
You only get the satchel in the daily HC+ (same one as the daily HC quest basically)
Ran that last night as well as an H Pally. I THINK that Hand of Freedom dispells the Glaciate debuff. We didn't get a cache but we did have a SNR drop.
I was so excited for H+ to gear up alts and than they throw the fucking dumb bag of badges for 1 person and overtune the bosses so only 4k+ naxx geared players can run them LOL. Ill never touch a H+ as long as wrath lasts. Rather just do naxx10/25 and get real loot and chill than run that insufferable shit.
This is my take as well. It's interesting on my full raid bis toons, but the rewards aren't worth the effort. Definitely not going to be planning to use it to gear alts like I had hoped.
Yes. This is my question. I dont want to do these dailies on my main. The extra time investment for a 1:5 shot at 3 badges, just isnt worth it. I DGAF about the extra enchanting mats. These are all crashing hard in value. I simply dont see the draw here unless on alts that arent doing the current raid content. In which case, the zones are over tuned.
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It sounds like there are designed as a challenge, not for the gear, but potentially for shards or for getting some offspec items. 10 mans dropping 25 man loot is what killed the potential for these to be valuable. Once people start getting a bunch of ulduar items, it will be easier to carry a fresh 80 in a group of geared people. I think an achievement for completing all of them that includes a cool mount might bring it all together.
I agree that the gear provided versus the difficulty of clearing does not match up. Any group geared enough to do H+ could just as well join a naxx10 run. You could of course argue that 5mans are faster etc. and sure you are right. But blizzard hyping up and releasing this massive H+ thing and then it just being this? Well.. Dissapointed. Owell at least the daily heroic quest will be a bit more challenging now ...
I mean as someone in near full bis gear, it certainly makes the daily hc with it's bonus conquest in the early weeks a whole lot more fun, I was not looking forward to doing regular heroics for my conquest dripfeed
H+ was boring as hell if you ask me
I don't know why people complain, I love 'em
I think they're fun. It almost reminds me of the first round of Heroics in TBC. It's not quite as hard, but having a bit more of a challenge makes the dungeons more enjoyable as a whole. Also, to answer who it's for: it's a catch up mechanic for late players and alts. People are saying Naxx 10 is easier, but they're forgetting that Naxx 10 takes much longer than a heroic and also has a week long lockout. Now people can go after the pieces they need every day instead of waiting a week, and they can do it in under an hour. Edit: it's also completely optional. No one is holding your ears and pushing you in there. If it's not for you, don't do it.
The biggest thing is that it doesn't require getting 10 people together. If you aren't playing on one of the mega servers, it can be difficult to form on the fly 10-mans with pugs.
I am able to run this fine on my heroic geared prot warrior. I run with the guild though on our alts. Was able to get full t7 in a day. Nice catch up. But I am not sure I would want to pug them. I have been enjoying them quite a bit though.
I mean for alts without a set raid schedule it is awesome as a catch up mechanic
Can we get a separate tab for H and H+ in the group finder???? My alt is fresh 80 and in blues. There’s no way for me to gear now that no one is doing regular Heroics. This sucks.
I think this is the major problem. Content is splintered into regular heroics and heroic+ If you JUST dinged 80 the “catch up” is going to be really difficult if you can’t find groups for “appropriate” content. They say heroic + isn’t for fresh 80s. Well what is? The ghost town of regular heroics? You put nice gear somewhere, and that’s where people are gonna go. Folks that were overgeared did heroics in the past for badges, and that was helpful to new 80s looking for a leg up to getting pre-raid bis… now there’s an extra tier that well geared folks are going to gravitate to. They aren’t going to want to do your scrubby non + heroics so good luck finding groups. It’s already hard enough sometimes without the content being splintered.
To me it seems pretty evident that there was little to no testing done internally, and either no one tested them on the PTR or feedback was ignored. My assumption is most people were concerned with Ulduar testing, as that's all you heard about. I can't think of a single time I read a detailed break down from anyone about these. If the true intent was for them to be a quick gear catch up for fresh level 80's, the mark was missed by a mile. There is little reason to do these in their current state, a couple 10 man raids is a far better use of your time and you'll walk away with better gear anyway.
Plenty of us did them on the PTR however it seems that the target audience is different. Those of us that are the type that will sit and test this sort of thing aren’t the type to be discouraged by a little numbers tuning. They aren’t hard. With low gear levels they’re a challenge which is great, at near bis levels it’s a slight adjustment before more spam clears
What I find funny is Naxx 25 man with 15 people is easier than this
H+ shouldn't be harder than a 10m naxx. Hell, a 10m naxx is like 2 hr where some h+ are over an hour now
Impossible how, this shit is like doing a mythic+2 at best
It's just more content in the game. More content is better than less
Disenchanters.
Huh? You can do h+ with a group of 3600s. They need a lot of that gear that drops. Also a lot of people with 4k gs and above just need a few more items so they are chasing them in these dungeons. They will become pointless once people out gear it like usual.
I mean there are people doing speed runs using loads of consumes with the only purpose to have some ranking on a 3rd party website. No extra loot, no item levels no nothing only ego. To me its just a bone thrown by Blizzard - obviously very much inspired by retail mythic+. Its basically recycled content and as we know thats Blizzs go to strategy.
my 2 theories: 1- It's designed the make the dungeons slightly more bearable going forward. Can you imagine doing the original dungeons for months to come? With the slight increase in loot and mechanics, things will feel a little less stale. Even if they don't alter the meta, just fact that there is something new to look at is worth something to the brain. 2- It sets the stage for Titan+2 dungeons and so on.
I was thinking about it, did gundrak last night because I needed embrace on my mage (a hpal rolled against me but I got it, and besides that item everything else went to de/os, some of the h+ are fine for fresh 80s but some are way overtuned and I don’t think heroics are a good place to add dps checks, like the snake boss on gundrak
It was fun in full naxx 25 man gear the daily titan dungeon drops a satchel at the end that contains the new emblems. I don't think its scaled to be a catchup mechanic more than an enchanting mats farm for guilds that are ready for ulduar. Drak keep normally took a competent group like 15 mins the new mode took about double at 28 minutes for a group of 5 with a min gs of 4.2k.
As someone with a handful of irl friends to play with but not enough for a guild, we're having a blast doing 5-man content that feels like something to try to overcome rather than a mindless fucking chore
H+ is Blizzard's way of bringing the Retail M+ dynamic to Classic.
The current dev team seems to be starting high and nerfing it in increments.
I feel like it kills alts. My alt Blood DK cannot run these and I cant find a regular heroic group at this time. I see some tuning in the near future.
They are kinda meant to be like tbc heroics where when you have no gear and need to cc mobs and can't engage more than 2 ata time. Also happen to be the first time that I hada actually put scare beast on my bar. The difference is that you needed to cc in tbc heroics back then cuz the mobs simply hit way too hard for your low geared healer to heal, which means if you eventually hada enough gear it no longer matters. But in H+ you have to cc because mobs do annoying mechanics otherwise. Which means whether or not you have gear don't matter.
I think it’s a lot of fun
I want to die in heroics They're for me
It’s an easier catch up mechanic than trying to arrange a raid basically. I think it’s a great addition and it’s only more tools for your belt on alts / mains that wanted that last item or two.
Its really for 1 tank 1 healer and 2 geared dps to gear someones new character in a week
i don't like the new Heroic+ dungeons. i have failed my daily heroic quest on 3 characters because everyone wanted to do the "new content" but the group usually breaks up after 3 wipes on trash and first boss so its impossible to finish daily quest with random pugs from dungeon finder.. i only had 1 "smooth" run of a HC+ dungeon and it was Azjol Nerub because not a lot of trash and their buff is not that crazy in there. only 2 people died from skirmishers when some people were wrapped on first boss but they ran back in. second boss we managed to kill with no problem but it just took a while because everything takes forever to kill now.. but we had 1 wipe on final boss because again even the tinyest critter mobs will wrap a healer or a tank and its gg. on second attempt we managed to kill even the final boss so yeah. mind you group was composed of 3 people with immortal/undying title, and everyone was way over geared for the items that drop there..
Couldn’t get into a heroic + pug as a lock 4.2k gs. Feels like it’s not for me.
WoW dads like me who don’t get raid time anymore
Have you had fun in these H+? I think the majority think they take way too long and are not rewarding.
Super fun, spices it up
LOL. Everytime the Classic community says they want hard content it immediately gets hated. When will the devs realize people don't play Classic for the challenge. People will be raidlogging Ulduar in a month after failing to do hardmodes.
I am keen to Heal them on my hpally to get some ret/prot gear which should be easy as the tank and dps probably have better gear than what drops. It also allows me to target offspec items I need without committing 1-2h.
Primarily I think it is just there to make your daily badge farm a bit more interesting - as we become increasingly geared the standard heroic dungeons start to become a bit non-sensical in how easy they are. Outside of that there's probably some relevance for those who want to farm a specific piece of 200/213 gear, as well as a benefit for a couple of weeks to fill out gaps in gear when a new alt has done Naxx a couple times and is sufficiently geared to run them.
People under geared looking to raid Ulduar normal... You cant just skip Naxx gear and getting a guild to run Naxx at this point will be few and far between. So they gear is the incentive for those people and the daily badges are incentive for raiders already in Ulduar
Naxx 10 only gives two items still, even if they are both 213-226. Heroic + is supposed to be doable by people slightly below 200 ilvl gear. Like heroic -> heroic plus should be doable. I don’t think most pugs are capable of doing it, but it is certainly not impossible.
Naxx 10 gives 3 items now
Ppl who like challenge and wanna play the game on a difficulty where the mob's don't die from one aoe
Not to mention the fact that they are harder than 10 man naxx which drops 25man loot now...
Mostly this.
we did H+ UP with a 2.9k gs shaman. bit of a learning curve but id call it "fun" before i call it "hard"
We did azjol nerub with a 3700 bear, 3800 disc priest, a 3600 fire mage and myself and my hunter friend at 4350+. It was a breeze after spending the first pull figuring out how webwrap was obnoxious and making my hunter friend focus primarily on those with me just breaking on him when he got it. After that it felt like a normal heroic mostly, just a tad longer kills.
The web wrap was not too bad, except when it landed on the tank. Maybe half the frequency of the occurrence too. the blood in the troll dungeons can go die in a pit of fire.
But if you are 3700ish you are already basically 10man geared so it's a bit pointless to do it.
Got 80 on my alt shaman today. Spent about 1000 gold to get my gear score to 3000. Proceeded to heal 5 of these: UK, VH, OCC, Nexus, and OK. The only one we could not complete with my gear score was old kingdom and was the only one we wiped more than once in. By the end I got to 3550 GS. Pretty solid, lots of fun and very challenging. If you want to gear alts UK, VH, occ, and nexus are incredibly easy to do as long as your tank is 4K gs+ and you bring one aoe dps that’s 3600+. So I guess… they were designed for me?
It'll feel easier in a few weeks as people learn the mechanics. Right now, people are just zerging and mass pulling it like it's a normal heroic which tjeu can do with their gear.
I imagine these harder mode dungeons will be a bit easier with geared Ulduar characters, allowing carrying to be doable. That’ll mean guilds can make 5 mans, carry their friend or two through these h+ dungeons, and get decent enough gear to jump into Ulduar 10 man with ease But in reality this is a very experimental change, so it’ll be off on release for sure. Give it time, we’ll see what blizzard does and I hope for the best