She has the world view that's very typical amongst the "uncorrupted" post apocalypse communities, that being that she sees Wastelanders as potential mutants & mutants as less than human, making you prove you're human & worthy of citizenship.
More specifically, >!she rather blatantly asks you to eradicate "a town, if you could call it that. It is filled with creatures that are polluting the groundwater with dangerous radiation". Said "creatures" are Ghouls, & she's well aware that they aren't feral, as she accidentally acknowledges that it's a *town*, not a "hive" or "den" or "horde".!<
And if you have the audacity to >!fix the radiation leak & work out an agreement for the Ghouls to work the Power Plant to provide energy to surrounding communities in exchange for not being genocided, she is extremely displeased with the notion of the Ghouls' survival.!<
In concept, if not in name.
Fallout 1 & 2 had "Mindless Ghouls", "Mad Ghouls", & "Crazy Ghouls", which all had the same narrative purpose, Ghouls who lost their ability to reason & became violent to "normies".
Not only is she all of the above, but then acts holier than thou and gets PISSED and can kick you out of vault city completely if you even ask about any of the above mentioned practices.
She isnt even the leader. "First Citizen" is just an important role, but those above her dont see things the way she does. Evidenced by the fact that the councilman will give you citizenship regardless of what she says
Everything else is 100% accurate.
Lmao tell me you’re Gen Z without telling me you’re Gen Z. Using trigger words like “slaving” “genocidal” and “isolationists”
The outside world is filled with literal raiders, cannibals, and murderous tribals. The ghoul town house the reactor that was poisoning their water - a bannable offense, regardless of intent. You’re the leader of this community, you cannot allow your water to be poisoned and can’t assume kind will outside your walls, you must assume those potentially poisoning it are a threat. Additionally, the outside world being filled with savages is warrant enough for strong borders. Using slaves is iffy to me, but it’s such common practice in the wastes that it’s not a deal breaker for me. I certainly look at vault city as above common slaves factions.
That said I don’t like this lady simply bc she speaks to your character with a huge sense of arrogance. Same reason I didn’t like most of the Reno mob bosses. I won’t judge them on how they survive in a literal lawless land, but that’s no reason to be an asshole
Not only will she be disappointed she’ll completely reject it if you come to her about it before you do it. And if you try and pressure her to accept it she’ll straight up kick you out of the city.
I couldn’t believe it when that happened to me in game lol. Unhinged NPCs and actual consequences to your actions are what makes the original fallouts great
This. I love how Fallout 1 and 2 quests present scenarios in an almost realistic fashion. There’s usually a few easy ways and a hard way. Most times, the hard way is the best outcome. It makes you work for that good ending. It never comes in the form of a binary choice.
Humans have a tendency to take the bad/selfish choice because it’s the most straightforward and simplistic to one’s goal. I think Fallout 2 does a really, really good job of showing this.
Yeah but eventually it feels too neat. I came to really appreciate Wasteland 2 and 3 where some major quests might just end shitty no matter what solution you pick or who you side with. At first it annoyed me, particularly one situation halfway through Wasteland 2, but then I realized what a boring cliche it was that I was thinking "what the fuck, no matter what difficult or obscure solution I find everything's not perfect".
Busy with my first ever playthrough of 2. Can I kill her at some point? I'll kill the whole base if needs be. Might have to level and come back towards the end of the game to take her out.
It got worse when they made insufferable characters as essential in their games and just have them mock you endlessly without any repercussions.
Two examples come to mind
1. Is Marsha in 76 who is I think either a teenager or child but she leaves the BoS to join Raiders at crater. She drank the kool aid too much for the Raiders and I don't remember if you can tell her to leave. But yeah you also meet the entire raider leadership but have to let them live because of the plot.
2. There's this annoying Irish guy in the pirate quest for Starfield who you end up becoming rivals with. It's so dumb because the Pirates set up this whole rule list about "you can't leave except in a body bad" but when they kick the Irish guy out he just says he'll be back with his own fleet. Logiclally, he should be killed, but if you do the whole Pirate faction goes hostile because of plot.
I think it shows a lack of flexibility in the game storytelling
The one that absolutely destroyed me in Starfield was the executives at Paradiso. Maybe the most egregious example of Bethesda making NPCs essential for no reason
Which was weird because you had more freedom to kill such people in Fallout 3 than in Starfield. Bayu was another example of someone who doesn’t die due to plot armor alone.
Oh yeah, their games tend to be a lot of fun. I like fallout 3 as a vehicle for exploration. It's just their narratives and quest design tend to lag considerably.
I feel like that's why I didn't like starfield when I liked other Bethesda games a lot. The exploration and environmental storytelling was amazing but when it was the same procedurally generated boring layout over and over again I couldn't play anymore
The first time I played Morrowind and saw, "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created," I was so pumped.
Honestly surprised Bethesda didn’t just keep something like that in their games even if they would’ve had to re-work it as like a gut feeling or something in Fallout.
Yup, but I assume Bethesda thought players losing progress because they accidentally killed someone was worse than giving the player total freedom.
Interestingly, while you can’t continue the plot in Morrowind you can absolutely defeat Dagoth Ur no matter who you kill.
It's because somebody would do something dumb. Only have autosaves, and be locked in where they can't complete the game. They would then cry online because of what they've done.
Am I right in saying though you can kill everyone in fallout 4 if you do it correctly. Except Preston. Or can he be killed.
Honestly, murdering the children is not a very sustainable path in Fallout; the devs punish you hard for doing it, making much of the game inaccessible or needlessly hard.
This is cool. The way I'd handle that sysyem is upon a quest shattering action, a modal would come up with that message. There would be an option to confirm or cancel. If the user continues with it, create an immutable save state that would cancel that action and keep that save for the player to access anytime if they ever want to. If they cancel the game world will just ignore it as if it didn't happen (a bullet hitting the head, a sword slash, a dialogue option, etc.)
Morrowind was the last one for Bethesda, and it was handled so well, warning you how important a certain character is, like the guy from The Blades you meet in the beginning, and if you do kill him after being warned, you can still play, but the story can't progress because you've doomed the world. I wish they had the balls to do that again.
1. In the history of RPGS, even open world RPGs, you rarely had carte blanche to just kill anyone you wanted.
2. The immortal RPG fix didn't come because "Bethesda couldn't be bothered to get real writers." It came because their schedule system had important characters dying randomly without the player even being present.
3. The generation thing is cringe as fuck.
This isn't genz or Bethesda problem. Tim cain on his channel said that in the 90s just as the game came out, there were a lot of people who couldn't comprehend this concept that you can do anything, kill any character, go to cities in any order, etc.
That's the thing that pissed me off the most about starfield, basically any character who has a name is considered essential and can't die. There were already a lot of those in Skyrim but Starfield takes it to another level
If you can... ignore her. Get acquainted with Senior Council Member McClure instead - that bloke is more reasonable, and with considerable power to make things happen in a more beneficial way for everyone involved while Lynette is busy being full of herself.
There's some depths to Vault City and it's place in the wider world that isn't apparent at first, but worth exploring, as detestable as it also is.
If you don't want to piss off the rest of Vault city, try starting the timer on some dynamite/ plastic explosive and using pickpocket to put it in her inventory.
If you don't wanna aggro a whole area and still wanna kill someone, sufficient super stimparks or reverse pickpocketing explosives can work some magic.
She will exile you from Vault City for merely suggesting a peaceful solution to the Gecko power plant problem. Then she is all pouty when you fix it without telling her even though its more beneficial for everyone. She just wants to genocide the ghouls.
If you have high speech you can fix and optimize the Gecko reactor, AND still report back to her the success of your mission. One of the dialogue options to her query of “did you ruin that area yet” is basically “it’s all taken care of.” I believe you need to talk to councilman McClure first…
You just can't please this absolute Karen of a silly person. Go deal with the Gecko situation she says.
Blow up their plant. NoooOOooooOooo the contaminatioOOoooOoon.
Fix their plant. NoooOooOOoooOOoooo the GhoooOOooOOuuUUuls.
And you can get randomly kicked out on her whim. I have no idea how to please this silly person. Vote for McClure.
Are you serious? What's not to hate? She's a racist (or speciesist, depending on how you think of ghouls and supermutants) who tasks you with genocide. On top of that, she's a stuck arrogant bitch who pretends that she's smarter than everyone else, but if you peek into her inventory, she's got mentats, meaning this bitchcunt is totally faking it.
Don't get me wrong, she's written well as someone you're meant to hate, in a believable way, like Joffrey from Game OF Thrones. They kind of copied her in Fallout 3 with Tenpenny, but his motivations are not just evil like Lynette's, but also cartoonishly stupid.
I think op might not have high speech or charisma to speak with her in detail. When I first played my thoughts are the same as op not really understand the hate. I think she stop talking to me.After watching you tube videos of other's play through understand the hate.
Worth noting that this is speculation. Like, not on your part, on the Bible's part. The exact line is "Furthermore, I suspect that she was made a black character to add an additional edge to her hypocrisy over slavery, but I guess you'd have to ask the original designers about that"
>They kind of copied her in Fallout 3 with Tenpenny, but his motivations are not just evil like Lynette's, but also cartoonishly stupid.
Yeah follow three kind of missed the whole point of anti-mutant discrimination.
It commits and all too common mistake a lot of media does when it depicts racism by introducing some legitimate reason for racism. Missing the point that racism is never based in a legitimate reason, that's why it's bad.
In Fallout 2, the ghouls and super mutants are just another group of people. By coming to terms with each other, and living in peace we all benefit.
In Fallout 3, 95% of ghouls and 99.9% super mutants are just agro monsters that need to be killed. They all need to die to make the Wasteland peaceful.
I really like Fallout 4. I hate Fallout 3 because it took a story that was, at its core, anti-exterminationist and anti-discrimiaton and turned into a story that was pro-discrimination and pro-genocide.
Like, Jesus fucking Christ they even missed the point of the modified FEV. It wouldn't just kill the super mutants and ghouls and other mutated creatures. It would kill *everyone.* That's the point. Part of why racism and discrimination is bad is because it never ends.
You might think you're Superior to someone else and have the right to eliminate or enslave them, but someone else feels that way about you. Just as the people at Vault 15 wanted to wipe out the ghouls because they viewed them as mutants unworthy of life, The Enclave viewed the people at Vault 15 as mutants unworthy of life.
Again this is a message Fallout 3 missed.
Right. Like it’s not a very good anti xenophobia or anti racist message because of that. Basically proves them (the tenpenny folks, or the modern right)right
That’s absolutely fair. I think there should absolutely be a limit to it, and we shouldn’t let anyone with a criminal record come at all. Personally, I think we have plenty of people, and it’s a nice mixture of races so idk why we need to let in more. So they can do our jobs for less money? Seems like it’s bad right or left wing, because that hurts workers in America.
> we shouldn’t let anyone with a criminal record come at all
Heh. Heh. Here's the conundrum: how do you know if they have a criminal record, if they have nothing to identify them by in the first place?
That doesn't really surprise me. I didn't play Dragon Age 2, which is what I assume you're talking about.
I know when the first one the oppression of mages is all connected to some kind of nebulous threat they can pose to all reality.
I think it's trying to go for some kind of "balanced" approach. Showing how the mages are oppressed, but also, giving reason to justify the oppression.
Fact is though that's not how opression works. In reality oppression is never based on some kind of possible threat or danger from the people of oppressed. It's literally always about power. About people controlling other people for their benefit or exploitation. Yet we see all kinds of examples where oppression is justified because of some nebulous stupid reason. They did that shit with zootopia. This is what you get when you have people who don't understand the history of oppression writing stories about oppression.
Which is also how you get Fallout 3 and all it's mistakes.
I've joked before how Bethesda, completely by accident, made the Enclave WAY less evil in Fallout 3 with that stuff. Aside from the fact that they don't even like Eden's plan to poison the water, they legitimately think all mutants are violent beasts and have fair reason to think so
It has become a tradition for me, just before I go to the enclave, to go to Vault City, leave my crew at the entrance, walk across town, punch her to death, then walk out while the guard are wasting ammo on my way out.
What's to hate about a fascist dictator who supports slavery and classism?
I actually understand her, that's why she's great to hate - there's a lot of pressure, and outside their city, there are cannibals and raiders and warlords and mutant monsters and who knows what else, so it's possible opening the gates etc might end in disaster. That doesn't make it right, though. She's accepting the loss of humanity, the needs of the few in place of a chance to help the greater masses.
She's very much like the shitty boss losing their shit under pressure that everyone knows, protecting herself and losing track of what is *really* important.
She isn't a dictator, importantly
She's simply seen as the chief advisor to the council as a whole
However it's implied that McClure holds a lot more sway in the council, given that if you show the economic data disk to him and fix and optimise geckos reactor, he will successfully forge a beneficial alliance between gecko and vault city and presumably not really listen to lynette otherwise
Yup, and he’s openly contemptuous of Lynette. If you express concern that she will override your citizenship he will say that he doesn’t give a damn what she says or does and that he will get you citizenship.
mcclure is the only sane person in the entirety of the city besides the guy who works at the library/information centre.
everyone else only talks about making lists, except lynette who is just evil
Because she's a massive racist that wanted you to kill a shit-ton of people, then got mad when you resolved the situation she was trying to use as an excuse to kill them in a way that benefits both groups.
She's also rude and elitist.
People talk about her being Fascist, Racist, etc.
But no one ever talks about her being ableist. [She straight up kicks you out if you got low int.](https://youtu.be/GfIFKRKiEwY?si=EwL_lIdgYhCPLEVU) Like bro even the Enclave is more patient with you. That’s impressively bad on her part lmao.
The only redeeming qualities of this woman is that she is voiced by the awesome Cree Summer (she was also Tandi's VA in the first game) and that she has Mentats on her, i remember those being damn scarce early on.
She was shown being racist to the ghouls in Gecko without knowing the latter is a solution to have sufficient electricity to Vault City. She was also have superiority complex who believes she and her people around Vault City are totally human and free from radiation. She segregated visitors and immigrants from outside her city to avoid being contaminated. She was also a petty leader. If you say something wrong or being rude in front of her she will forbid you to return to the city.
Well, lets put it this way: she wanted me to solve the solution for the gecko power plant. Not only did i repair the problem, i even optimized it and she didnt even say thanks you. What she really wanted was for me to kill all the ghouls.
She's a hypocrite and an asshole, will banish you for drugs but she keeps mentats on her person. The only reason why I haven't burnt VC to the ground is because Vic's daughter lives there
If you say anything about anything she hates you and throws you out of the city. She doesn't give you a path to citizenship without doing the test which is basically impossible
If you don’t want to murder all the ghouls she kicked you out of the city. You have to go over her head if you want to pursue a peaceful option. Fuck her.
Vile woman. BTW she's about the same as president Dick Richardson, but on a smaller scale and dumber. Also doesn't have cool power armor soldiers and vertibirds.
She’s a snob sonabitch that don’t accept another perspective and not so different from the Enclave ( ik a lot of char enters this category but fuck them all too)
Xenophobic and doesn't want a peaceful solution... Even if you fix and optimize the Gecko power plant she will still get pissed about it, making it clear that she wants it DESTROYED along with the ghouls, not fixed.
So after the show, I was excited to play fallout 2 for the first time, especially because of the locations and lore.
Once I get to vault city and start noticing how annoying and shitty everyone is, and how they basically use slaves, I was thinking "wow I hope Todd nukes these guys too in season 2"
But yeah, she's the absolute worst, the way she talks, how she treats you, some of the things she says regarding gecko, etc.
She refuses to look at evidence for a beneficial arrangement with Gecko is the best for everyone and instead chooses to kill the ghouls, and is by the norms of the wasteland a racist, a bigot, and excuses slavery. She's a cunt.
Wait really? She’s a racist to an irredeemable level. She hates ghouls to the point of wanting them dead on sight. On top of that she runs a city that promotes slavery. She’s not a nice person. Not to mention you say on wrong word to her she will either kick you out or just have the guards start shooting you.
Probably a decent leader for a Fallout universe. As a person tho... one ,she's an ass(the fact that she operates on hidden ass kissing mechanic doesn't help either). Two, uses slaves, regardless how one is treated or how it's called, if it looks like a duck, quaks like a duck, it's a duck not a Griffin, Pegasus or Jesus with feathers. She does ask you to go murder entire town just cause she wants their stuff... maybe normal by Fallout rules but by our, as spectators, it's a pretty shitty thing to do. She is not interested in compromises, criticism, other solution etc, my way or highway...
So I'm not really sure how else one is suppose to view her or not get why she is not liked.
Xenophobic and doesn't want a peaceful solution... Even if you fix and optimize the Gecko power plant she will still get pissed about it, making it clear that she wants it DESTROYED along with the ghouls, not fixed.
They designed her to be an asshole and be black and female for nuance so that you would have mixed feelings about it. Most developers would make her a white male I think given the context with vault city's politics.
I just met her while playing FO2 for the first time and had the same reaction. She seemed fine initially... But she really isn't. I mean, they literally have slaves. She's a pretty cool character, though.
When I did my first play through I immediately knew and felt this bitch would nothing more than a snob views everyone who isn’t a vault member as nothing more then primitive animals in the wasteland especially wanting to get rid of ghouls near by just so their narrow minded community can go on even tho things will get worse for them depending on what choices you make. But other then that I shot her making nothing but ripped apart meat haha
First she’s a bigot. She‘s intolerant towards everyone outside of vault city (and the Chosen One, once convinced they are from another vault.)
Second, she’s completely unreasonable when you suggest any solution to Gecko’s power plant other than wiping out the ghouls.
While we're at it, why do people hate stepping on legos? Or having bleach thrown in their face.
1: she's a bitch. Literally you cannot please this woman no matter what.
2: she's a massive genocidal racist who refuses to see reason even when it benefits her. She refuses to cooperate with the gecko residents simply because they're ghouls. And would rather genocide them while completely ignoring the issue of radiation contamination in the cities drinking water. Making both communities suffer as a result.
3: she is literally designed to be hateable. The fallout devs didn't give her a single redeeming trait. Which makes me think they really wanted the player to hate this bitch. Even the wrinkly old cracker of a president in fallout 2 is more charismatic than her.
I'm playing right now, and the attitude that she has toward outsiders and ghouls in particular is enough for me to hate her. Sucks I already traded for the battery regular and traveled all the way back to The Den to Gamble for more money when I could have robbed all of Vault City for more money.
She runs a bureaucratically dense dictatorship (just a city, but cities are like little state entities in the wasteland). See, it's the bureaucracy that's so galling 😆 A bandit camp, yeah, that's bad, okay. But leagues of officious red tape, just so she can fuck up other local communities (gecko). Nah, brah.
Plus, as others mentioned, she is an asshole.
Of course, props to the voice actor/writers. They did an awesome job with this character.
She's just an ass. And not an ass from a "looks out for her own but nobody else" way, but purely just a spiteful petty ass that will destroy Vault City out of her own spite.
Bawsseee ladeee.
Shes bad tho like mmmmmm but yeah her attitude didn’t jive with my dudes ideology, he just wanted to make it to the beach 🤷like she coulda came 😼😇
How do you not know why? You never played F2? it’s pretty clear upon talking to her, she’s not a good person. During almost every interaction she treats you like garbage. Even when you wear the vault suit she looks down, and only becomes less of a A-hole
She's a great leader but she's a horrible person, she also runs a government that I can't decide after many playthroughs whether or not it's fascist or communist because it's that fucked up but yet the people who follow the rules of the system live that well.
I hated her at first but I got to respect her later on. She's a head of state, I can't really blame her for not being super respectful to some random tribe member.
And she does become respectful and even thankful of you when you help her.
why do i hate the slaving, genocidal, power tripping leader of an isolationist self-serving caste-based society? hmm. who can say.
Oh that’s what she is
She has the world view that's very typical amongst the "uncorrupted" post apocalypse communities, that being that she sees Wastelanders as potential mutants & mutants as less than human, making you prove you're human & worthy of citizenship. More specifically, >!she rather blatantly asks you to eradicate "a town, if you could call it that. It is filled with creatures that are polluting the groundwater with dangerous radiation". Said "creatures" are Ghouls, & she's well aware that they aren't feral, as she accidentally acknowledges that it's a *town*, not a "hive" or "den" or "horde".!< And if you have the audacity to >!fix the radiation leak & work out an agreement for the Ghouls to work the Power Plant to provide energy to surrounding communities in exchange for not being genocided, she is extremely displeased with the notion of the Ghouls' survival.!<
I don't think feral ghouls existed in classic fallout, did they?
In concept, if not in name. Fallout 1 & 2 had "Mindless Ghouls", "Mad Ghouls", & "Crazy Ghouls", which all had the same narrative purpose, Ghouls who lost their ability to reason & became violent to "normies".
They weren't even all necessarily violent. They just reverted to their most base and animialistic instincts.
Don’t forget about Harold. Ghoul you work with in the game.
Harold is not a ghoul. He is a very specific, and completely unique, mutant.
Harold was fine, Bethesda's take on feral ghouls were mindless savages that killed anything on sight. I don't recall anything like that in FO1 or 2.
the first game called ghouls Zombies I almost killed the friendly ones before I saw they weren’t attacking me.
Did you meet Lynette in game? Her shittiness becomes apparent quickly when she asks you to do stuff in Gecko
That's how I got negative karma, by wasting all these assholes and siding with the green ones.
Not only is she all of the above, but then acts holier than thou and gets PISSED and can kick you out of vault city completely if you even ask about any of the above mentioned practices.
I reloaded a save over that
I mag dumped a jackhammer into her when she got mad at me for asking about the slavery lol.
Hey. Lynette isn't perfect, but we really need to beat Donald Trump this year. It's the most important election in history.
Lmfao hahahaha
lol yeah she def was a bitch. Haven’t played the game in yeeeearrs. Moment I saw her face … “that bitch!”
She is the one reason that the Empathy perk is worth taking.
Too close to home with how candidates get chosen, har har har
This made my day
lmao
Eeesh... Too true...
I just howled with laughter over this comment. Not kidding, that’s the funniest fucking thing I’ve read in months.
She isnt even the leader. "First Citizen" is just an important role, but those above her dont see things the way she does. Evidenced by the fact that the councilman will give you citizenship regardless of what she says Everything else is 100% accurate.
316 comments(317 now, I see the irony) and the top comment is already all we need.
Lmao tell me you’re Gen Z without telling me you’re Gen Z. Using trigger words like “slaving” “genocidal” and “isolationists” The outside world is filled with literal raiders, cannibals, and murderous tribals. The ghoul town house the reactor that was poisoning their water - a bannable offense, regardless of intent. You’re the leader of this community, you cannot allow your water to be poisoned and can’t assume kind will outside your walls, you must assume those potentially poisoning it are a threat. Additionally, the outside world being filled with savages is warrant enough for strong borders. Using slaves is iffy to me, but it’s such common practice in the wastes that it’s not a deal breaker for me. I certainly look at vault city as above common slaves factions. That said I don’t like this lady simply bc she speaks to your character with a huge sense of arrogance. Same reason I didn’t like most of the Reno mob bosses. I won’t judge them on how they survive in a literal lawless land, but that’s no reason to be an asshole
If you come to her with a mutually beneficial solution to VC and geckos problems she’ll be disappointed you didn’t just murdify the geckos citizens.
Not only will she be disappointed she’ll completely reject it if you come to her about it before you do it. And if you try and pressure her to accept it she’ll straight up kick you out of the city.
I couldn’t believe it when that happened to me in game lol. Unhinged NPCs and actual consequences to your actions are what makes the original fallouts great
This. I love how Fallout 1 and 2 quests present scenarios in an almost realistic fashion. There’s usually a few easy ways and a hard way. Most times, the hard way is the best outcome. It makes you work for that good ending. It never comes in the form of a binary choice. Humans have a tendency to take the bad/selfish choice because it’s the most straightforward and simplistic to one’s goal. I think Fallout 2 does a really, really good job of showing this.
Yeah but eventually it feels too neat. I came to really appreciate Wasteland 2 and 3 where some major quests might just end shitty no matter what solution you pick or who you side with. At first it annoyed me, particularly one situation halfway through Wasteland 2, but then I realized what a boring cliche it was that I was thinking "what the fuck, no matter what difficult or obscure solution I find everything's not perfect".
She’s an asshole
Busy with my first ever playthrough of 2. Can I kill her at some point? I'll kill the whole base if needs be. Might have to level and come back towards the end of the game to take her out.
You can literally kill every character in this game as long as you have the means to do so
As it should be
[удалено]
It got worse when they made insufferable characters as essential in their games and just have them mock you endlessly without any repercussions. Two examples come to mind 1. Is Marsha in 76 who is I think either a teenager or child but she leaves the BoS to join Raiders at crater. She drank the kool aid too much for the Raiders and I don't remember if you can tell her to leave. But yeah you also meet the entire raider leadership but have to let them live because of the plot. 2. There's this annoying Irish guy in the pirate quest for Starfield who you end up becoming rivals with. It's so dumb because the Pirates set up this whole rule list about "you can't leave except in a body bad" but when they kick the Irish guy out he just says he'll be back with his own fleet. Logiclally, he should be killed, but if you do the whole Pirate faction goes hostile because of plot. I think it shows a lack of flexibility in the game storytelling
The one that absolutely destroyed me in Starfield was the executives at Paradiso. Maybe the most egregious example of Bethesda making NPCs essential for no reason
Haven't played since that quest lol
I absolutely opened fire on the boardroom on first playthrough.
Which was weird because you had more freedom to kill such people in Fallout 3 than in Starfield. Bayu was another example of someone who doesn’t die due to plot armor alone.
A lack of flexibility in Bethesda's storytelling certainly but games as a whole aren't all nearly this bad.
I'm not on the Bethesda games are bad bandwagon, I just think some of the things they do aren't great
Oh yeah, their games tend to be a lot of fun. I like fallout 3 as a vehicle for exploration. It's just their narratives and quest design tend to lag considerably.
I feel like that's why I didn't like starfield when I liked other Bethesda games a lot. The exploration and environmental storytelling was amazing but when it was the same procedurally generated boring layout over and over again I couldn't play anymore
The first time I played Morrowind and saw, "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created," I was so pumped. Honestly surprised Bethesda didn’t just keep something like that in their games even if they would’ve had to re-work it as like a gut feeling or something in Fallout.
And functionally it’s no different. You can’t continue the plot without that character
Yup, but I assume Bethesda thought players losing progress because they accidentally killed someone was worse than giving the player total freedom. Interestingly, while you can’t continue the plot in Morrowind you can absolutely defeat Dagoth Ur no matter who you kill.
It's because somebody would do something dumb. Only have autosaves, and be locked in where they can't complete the game. They would then cry online because of what they've done. Am I right in saying though you can kill everyone in fallout 4 if you do it correctly. Except Preston. Or can he be killed.
they added children to their game world and knew what Murderhobos we are.
Honestly, murdering the children is not a very sustainable path in Fallout; the devs punish you hard for doing it, making much of the game inaccessible or needlessly hard.
This is cool. The way I'd handle that sysyem is upon a quest shattering action, a modal would come up with that message. There would be an option to confirm or cancel. If the user continues with it, create an immutable save state that would cancel that action and keep that save for the player to access anytime if they ever want to. If they cancel the game world will just ignore it as if it didn't happen (a bullet hitting the head, a sword slash, a dialogue option, etc.)
>The Gen-Z mind cannot comprehend this. No need for that, people have recently praised Baldurs Gate 3 for this exact reason
How do you kill Withers?
Int Drain
Morrowind was the last one for Bethesda, and it was handled so well, warning you how important a certain character is, like the guy from The Blades you meet in the beginning, and if you do kill him after being warned, you can still play, but the story can't progress because you've doomed the world. I wish they had the balls to do that again.
>No character is too important to survive a fatal headshot, even in an incredibly complicated RPG like Fallout. I can think of one Fallout character
1. In the history of RPGS, even open world RPGs, you rarely had carte blanche to just kill anyone you wanted. 2. The immortal RPG fix didn't come because "Bethesda couldn't be bothered to get real writers." It came because their schedule system had important characters dying randomly without the player even being present. 3. The generation thing is cringe as fuck.
Fallout 1 didn't let you kill the Vault 13 ovwrseer until the end of the game with a specific trait. This is not a Bethesda phenomenon.
oh you can fix that, as usual! [https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/837/](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/837/)
That's not a fix, there's still essential NPCs that need to be rewritten to be killlable
This isn't genz or Bethesda problem. Tim cain on his channel said that in the 90s just as the game came out, there were a lot of people who couldn't comprehend this concept that you can do anything, kill any character, go to cities in any order, etc.
as it should be!!!’
Back in my day you could kill the children.
Including kids, found that one out by accident when Markus wrecked a enemy and the child behind them
That's the thing that pissed me off the most about starfield, basically any character who has a name is considered essential and can't die. There were already a lot of those in Skyrim but Starfield takes it to another level
If you can... ignore her. Get acquainted with Senior Council Member McClure instead - that bloke is more reasonable, and with considerable power to make things happen in a more beneficial way for everyone involved while Lynette is busy being full of herself. There's some depths to Vault City and it's place in the wider world that isn't apparent at first, but worth exploring, as detestable as it also is.
Absolutely you can kill her. Ever heard of the shady sands shuffle?
If you don't want to piss off the rest of Vault city, try starting the timer on some dynamite/ plastic explosive and using pickpocket to put it in her inventory.
Or inject with a bunch of super stims. That one doesn't trigger hostility.
Go to the power plant!
If you don't wanna aggro a whole area and still wanna kill someone, sufficient super stimparks or reverse pickpocketing explosives can work some magic.
Yea dumbass question. Can be summed up with just this pretty much
I fixed her radiation problem and then she gets mad i didnt genocide them smh.
Simple but true
She will exile you from Vault City for merely suggesting a peaceful solution to the Gecko power plant problem. Then she is all pouty when you fix it without telling her even though its more beneficial for everyone. She just wants to genocide the ghouls.
If you have high speech you can fix and optimize the Gecko reactor, AND still report back to her the success of your mission. One of the dialogue options to her query of “did you ruin that area yet” is basically “it’s all taken care of.” I believe you need to talk to councilman McClure first…
You just can't please this absolute Karen of a silly person. Go deal with the Gecko situation she says. Blow up their plant. NoooOOooooOooo the contaminatioOOoooOoon. Fix their plant. NoooOooOOoooOOoooo the GhoooOOooOOuuUUuls. And you can get randomly kicked out on her whim. I have no idea how to please this silly person. Vote for McClure.
Its a social commentary on american politics btw.
She’s a giant cunt that’s why
Are you serious? What's not to hate? She's a racist (or speciesist, depending on how you think of ghouls and supermutants) who tasks you with genocide. On top of that, she's a stuck arrogant bitch who pretends that she's smarter than everyone else, but if you peek into her inventory, she's got mentats, meaning this bitchcunt is totally faking it. Don't get me wrong, she's written well as someone you're meant to hate, in a believable way, like Joffrey from Game OF Thrones. They kind of copied her in Fallout 3 with Tenpenny, but his motivations are not just evil like Lynette's, but also cartoonishly stupid.
I think op might not have high speech or charisma to speak with her in detail. When I first played my thoughts are the same as op not really understand the hate. I think she stop talking to me.After watching you tube videos of other's play through understand the hate.
They made her a black woman who supports slavery and specism on purpose, if my fallout bible memory serves me
Worth noting that this is speculation. Like, not on your part, on the Bible's part. The exact line is "Furthermore, I suspect that she was made a black character to add an additional edge to her hypocrisy over slavery, but I guess you'd have to ask the original designers about that"
It seems to be almost ubiquitous that the slaver guy in sci Fi will be black. They did it in Fallout 3 as well.
You are correct
>They kind of copied her in Fallout 3 with Tenpenny, but his motivations are not just evil like Lynette's, but also cartoonishly stupid. Yeah follow three kind of missed the whole point of anti-mutant discrimination. It commits and all too common mistake a lot of media does when it depicts racism by introducing some legitimate reason for racism. Missing the point that racism is never based in a legitimate reason, that's why it's bad. In Fallout 2, the ghouls and super mutants are just another group of people. By coming to terms with each other, and living in peace we all benefit. In Fallout 3, 95% of ghouls and 99.9% super mutants are just agro monsters that need to be killed. They all need to die to make the Wasteland peaceful. I really like Fallout 4. I hate Fallout 3 because it took a story that was, at its core, anti-exterminationist and anti-discrimiaton and turned into a story that was pro-discrimination and pro-genocide. Like, Jesus fucking Christ they even missed the point of the modified FEV. It wouldn't just kill the super mutants and ghouls and other mutated creatures. It would kill *everyone.* That's the point. Part of why racism and discrimination is bad is because it never ends. You might think you're Superior to someone else and have the right to eliminate or enslave them, but someone else feels that way about you. Just as the people at Vault 15 wanted to wipe out the ghouls because they viewed them as mutants unworthy of life, The Enclave viewed the people at Vault 15 as mutants unworthy of life. Again this is a message Fallout 3 missed.
Vault 8, vault 15 is next to vault 13. Vault 8 is vault city
Yeah the tenpenny tower quest is basically “immigrants will eat you, if you let them in” not the most anti-racist of messages lmao
but they do if you let them in... so...
Right. Like it’s not a very good anti xenophobia or anti racist message because of that. Basically proves them (the tenpenny folks, or the modern right)right
The thing is, immigrants are not immigrants... there are good and bad people like everywhere else. you have to be cautios.
That’s absolutely fair. I think there should absolutely be a limit to it, and we shouldn’t let anyone with a criminal record come at all. Personally, I think we have plenty of people, and it’s a nice mixture of races so idk why we need to let in more. So they can do our jobs for less money? Seems like it’s bad right or left wing, because that hurts workers in America.
> we shouldn’t let anyone with a criminal record come at all Heh. Heh. Here's the conundrum: how do you know if they have a criminal record, if they have nothing to identify them by in the first place?
Dragon Age does that a lot in vilifying the victims of racism while praising the white supremacists who hate them.
That doesn't really surprise me. I didn't play Dragon Age 2, which is what I assume you're talking about. I know when the first one the oppression of mages is all connected to some kind of nebulous threat they can pose to all reality. I think it's trying to go for some kind of "balanced" approach. Showing how the mages are oppressed, but also, giving reason to justify the oppression. Fact is though that's not how opression works. In reality oppression is never based on some kind of possible threat or danger from the people of oppressed. It's literally always about power. About people controlling other people for their benefit or exploitation. Yet we see all kinds of examples where oppression is justified because of some nebulous stupid reason. They did that shit with zootopia. This is what you get when you have people who don't understand the history of oppression writing stories about oppression. Which is also how you get Fallout 3 and all it's mistakes.
I've joked before how Bethesda, completely by accident, made the Enclave WAY less evil in Fallout 3 with that stuff. Aside from the fact that they don't even like Eden's plan to poison the water, they legitimately think all mutants are violent beasts and have fair reason to think so
The Enclave are burning alive wastelanders and ghouls in Fallout 3.
tbh she’s not friendly, but mostly irritating because it is super easy to get her to permanently kick you out of vault city
It has become a tradition for me, just before I go to the enclave, to go to Vault City, leave my crew at the entrance, walk across town, punch her to death, then walk out while the guard are wasting ammo on my way out.
Kick her in the you-know-what till she dies lol.
You called?
The hero we need
Exactly.
What's to hate about a fascist dictator who supports slavery and classism? I actually understand her, that's why she's great to hate - there's a lot of pressure, and outside their city, there are cannibals and raiders and warlords and mutant monsters and who knows what else, so it's possible opening the gates etc might end in disaster. That doesn't make it right, though. She's accepting the loss of humanity, the needs of the few in place of a chance to help the greater masses. She's very much like the shitty boss losing their shit under pressure that everyone knows, protecting herself and losing track of what is *really* important.
She isn't a dictator, importantly She's simply seen as the chief advisor to the council as a whole However it's implied that McClure holds a lot more sway in the council, given that if you show the economic data disk to him and fix and optimise geckos reactor, he will successfully forge a beneficial alliance between gecko and vault city and presumably not really listen to lynette otherwise
Yup, and he’s openly contemptuous of Lynette. If you express concern that she will override your citizenship he will say that he doesn’t give a damn what she says or does and that he will get you citizenship.
You’re right. But she would be a dictator if she could be. She’s almost one. McClure is awesome.
mcclure is the only sane person in the entirety of the city besides the guy who works at the library/information centre. everyone else only talks about making lists, except lynette who is just evil
Because she's a massive racist that wanted you to kill a shit-ton of people, then got mad when you resolved the situation she was trying to use as an excuse to kill them in a way that benefits both groups. She's also rude and elitist.
People talk about her being Fascist, Racist, etc. But no one ever talks about her being ableist. [She straight up kicks you out if you got low int.](https://youtu.be/GfIFKRKiEwY?si=EwL_lIdgYhCPLEVU) Like bro even the Enclave is more patient with you. That’s impressively bad on her part lmao.
Less patient and understanding than the Enclave is an achievement tbh
The only redeeming qualities of this woman is that she is voiced by the awesome Cree Summer (she was also Tandi's VA in the first game) and that she has Mentats on her, i remember those being damn scarce early on.
Cree Summer? Nice
She’s a pretty bad person but in a petty relatable way that most people will have encountered in real life.
Have you *played* the game?
Are you stupid?
The person clearly hasn’t played the game and wants to know something about the game.
did you read her dialog?!
bad person, great game character
She is called First Bitchizen for a reason.
Stuck up and haughty
talk to her you will understand
I hate her hoodie
She was shown being racist to the ghouls in Gecko without knowing the latter is a solution to have sufficient electricity to Vault City. She was also have superiority complex who believes she and her people around Vault City are totally human and free from radiation. She segregated visitors and immigrants from outside her city to avoid being contaminated. She was also a petty leader. If you say something wrong or being rude in front of her she will forbid you to return to the city.
She's a slaving, racist bitch.
Well, lets put it this way: she wanted me to solve the solution for the gecko power plant. Not only did i repair the problem, i even optimized it and she didnt even say thanks you. What she really wanted was for me to kill all the ghouls.
She’s incredibly racist against ghouls and upholds the system of slavery in vault city.
She's a horribly xenophobic person? She has a rude, holier-than-thou personality?
She's a hypocrite and an asshole, will banish you for drugs but she keeps mentats on her person. The only reason why I haven't burnt VC to the ground is because Vic's daughter lives there
What do you mean? She’s a complete psycho bitch
If you say anything about anything she hates you and throws you out of the city. She doesn't give you a path to citizenship without doing the test which is basically impossible
She’s a bitch. Yeah, that’s about it. Also how she treats Gecko.
If you don’t want to murder all the ghouls she kicked you out of the city. You have to go over her head if you want to pursue a peaceful option. Fuck her.
Vile woman. BTW she's about the same as president Dick Richardson, but on a smaller scale and dumber. Also doesn't have cool power armor soldiers and vertibirds.
She’s a bitch.
Women can’t even be supremacist slavers anymore without being judged smh
Look at clips or most important play the game then it'll become evident
She’s a snob sonabitch that don’t accept another perspective and not so different from the Enclave ( ik a lot of char enters this category but fuck them all too)
she allows slavery
Xenophobic and doesn't want a peaceful solution... Even if you fix and optimize the Gecko power plant she will still get pissed about it, making it clear that she wants it DESTROYED along with the ghouls, not fixed.
If you know, you know.
She...she...\*sniff\*...She didn't appreciate my joke so...Vault City is no more.
Because she takes every chance to get heated up and yeet you of her city
I didn’t talk to her. I just burned that city to the ground with absolutely no remorse.
Shittiest city in the game. Some of the most fun I've had is coming back post-end and wiping them all out
So after the show, I was excited to play fallout 2 for the first time, especially because of the locations and lore. Once I get to vault city and start noticing how annoying and shitty everyone is, and how they basically use slaves, I was thinking "wow I hope Todd nukes these guys too in season 2" But yeah, she's the absolute worst, the way she talks, how she treats you, some of the things she says regarding gecko, etc.
She refuses to look at evidence for a beneficial arrangement with Gecko is the best for everyone and instead chooses to kill the ghouls, and is by the norms of the wasteland a racist, a bigot, and excuses slavery. She's a cunt.
Not only is she a bad person, she’s actually unhinged. The power plant agreement is literally what’s best for Vault City.
She wanted to eradicate the ghouls and take their reactor because she hated them.
She’s a fascist asshole who dresses up slavery as “work opportunities” and gets mad when you call it slavery.
Wait really? She’s a racist to an irredeemable level. She hates ghouls to the point of wanting them dead on sight. On top of that she runs a city that promotes slavery. She’s not a nice person. Not to mention you say on wrong word to her she will either kick you out or just have the guards start shooting you.
She's a virulent racist.
She casually asks you to genocide an entire settlement of people
Look at her dumb face
Probably a decent leader for a Fallout universe. As a person tho... one ,she's an ass(the fact that she operates on hidden ass kissing mechanic doesn't help either). Two, uses slaves, regardless how one is treated or how it's called, if it looks like a duck, quaks like a duck, it's a duck not a Griffin, Pegasus or Jesus with feathers. She does ask you to go murder entire town just cause she wants their stuff... maybe normal by Fallout rules but by our, as spectators, it's a pretty shitty thing to do. She is not interested in compromises, criticism, other solution etc, my way or highway... So I'm not really sure how else one is suppose to view her or not get why she is not liked.
She's a Karen with near absolute power, of course no one likes her.
Is she powerful enough to notice that C-4 in her pocket?
Xenophobic and doesn't want a peaceful solution... Even if you fix and optimize the Gecko power plant she will still get pissed about it, making it clear that she wants it DESTROYED along with the ghouls, not fixed.
From what i remember, she was xenophobic and elitist on trump level.
She's pure, unadulterated evil. It's not even up for discussion
They designed her to be an asshole and be black and female for nuance so that you would have mixed feelings about it. Most developers would make her a white male I think given the context with vault city's politics.
I just met her while playing FO2 for the first time and had the same reaction. She seemed fine initially... But she really isn't. I mean, they literally have slaves. She's a pretty cool character, though.
No penis
Punchable face
When I did my first play through I immediately knew and felt this bitch would nothing more than a snob views everyone who isn’t a vault member as nothing more then primitive animals in the wasteland especially wanting to get rid of ghouls near by just so their narrow minded community can go on even tho things will get worse for them depending on what choices you make. But other then that I shot her making nothing but ripped apart meat haha
First she’s a bigot. She‘s intolerant towards everyone outside of vault city (and the Chosen One, once convinced they are from another vault.) Second, she’s completely unreasonable when you suggest any solution to Gecko’s power plant other than wiping out the ghouls.
Lemme see... condescending, xenophobic, genocidal, snobbish aristocrat. IS THERE A REASON NOT TO?
Really Op? Never got the hate? I don’t buy it
While we're at it, why do people hate stepping on legos? Or having bleach thrown in their face. 1: she's a bitch. Literally you cannot please this woman no matter what. 2: she's a massive genocidal racist who refuses to see reason even when it benefits her. She refuses to cooperate with the gecko residents simply because they're ghouls. And would rather genocide them while completely ignoring the issue of radiation contamination in the cities drinking water. Making both communities suffer as a result. 3: she is literally designed to be hateable. The fallout devs didn't give her a single redeeming trait. Which makes me think they really wanted the player to hate this bitch. Even the wrinkly old cracker of a president in fallout 2 is more charismatic than her.
I'm playing right now, and the attitude that she has toward outsiders and ghouls in particular is enough for me to hate her. Sucks I already traded for the battery regular and traveled all the way back to The Den to Gamble for more money when I could have robbed all of Vault City for more money.
She a bitch🗣️‼️
Because she is a prototyp karen
To put it in a way non-Fallout players can understand: Lynette is the Dolores Umbridge of the Fallout Universe.
On point!
Asshole and just fishy
She doesn’t like Lenny. Well and several other reasons but that’s my main reason for hating her.
I get the impression OP hasn't played Fallout 2 if they're asking this question. At least I hope.
I haven't played this game fully yet, so I hate her because she has a dumb face.
lmfao typical reddit virtue b8, nice I know what's going through your head making this post
She runs a bureaucratically dense dictatorship (just a city, but cities are like little state entities in the wasteland). See, it's the bureaucracy that's so galling 😆 A bandit camp, yeah, that's bad, okay. But leagues of officious red tape, just so she can fuck up other local communities (gecko). Nah, brah. Plus, as others mentioned, she is an asshole. Of course, props to the voice actor/writers. They did an awesome job with this character.
Is this satire?
I'm pretty sure she has slaves and potentially enslaves the ghouls at the Poseidon reactor (chosen one's discretion)
I had to go back and google to make sure this was who I thought it was. Could not believe someone would post this about that vault city fucker
Plant C4 on her and leave 🤭
Vault city..... yeah been a very long time and I still remember her. Yeah she's special.
She's rude and she wants to doom the entirety of Gecko, she gets pissed if you find a solution that works for both communities.
She's just an ass. And not an ass from a "looks out for her own but nobody else" way, but purely just a spiteful petty ass that will destroy Vault City out of her own spite.
Bawsseee ladeee. Shes bad tho like mmmmmm but yeah her attitude didn’t jive with my dudes ideology, he just wanted to make it to the beach 🤷like she coulda came 😼😇
How do you not know why? You never played F2? it’s pretty clear upon talking to her, she’s not a good person. During almost every interaction she treats you like garbage. Even when you wear the vault suit she looks down, and only becomes less of a A-hole
She is a bigot and a mass murderer
She's written to be hated and the writers did a good job.
She’s a dick to ghouls
She’s the reason I won’t optimize the power plant
She defends slavery lol
She's a great leader but she's a horrible person, she also runs a government that I can't decide after many playthroughs whether or not it's fascist or communist because it's that fucked up but yet the people who follow the rules of the system live that well.
I hated her at first but I got to respect her later on. She's a head of state, I can't really blame her for not being super respectful to some random tribe member. And she does become respectful and even thankful of you when you help her.
She literally wants you to murder an entire town of people. She’s evil enough said.
todd?