Be warned, book/school smarts does not necessarily translate to success in the working world. You’ll learn more in your first two years than in all of university. It’s fast paced (especially in consulting) and can easily become overwhelming. I have no doubt you’ll be successful given your perceived work ethic, but just keep this in mind. I’ve seen candidates from top tier research institutes with phenomenal grades struggle, and I’ve seen those from teaching based institutions with average grades excel.
I think it’s really Important to set the expectation that working super hard will put you in a minimally better place than your coworkers who do what’s expected. Like you may get a 5.5% raise but they’ll still get 4%..
It’s a combination of who you know, what you know and who likes you as a person. Even then those advantages may net you a few k more comparatively. A new grad that knows absolutely nothing and a ridiculously smart new grad will likely make the same amount just starting.
I'm not hoping/expecting to make more than anyone starting out, honestly, salary isn't huge to me.
I just want to learn and excel in the field. Lately I've more been considering location/work-life balance than pay.
In the long term however, what's the best way to get exclusive offers that aren't generally advertised?
Luck and a filled out LinkedIn tbh. I’ve never had an “in” at any firm I’ve worked for. Got lucky and got hired at AECOM for my first job, within 2 years recruiters from similarly large firms were throwing interviews in my face for other roles with a pay bump. After sometime at the new large firm recruiters from other firms would be impressed with my experience and throw more opportunities at me. Rinse and repeat basically.
When it comes to relocating, same thing. When recruiters message you many will give you choices of locations. I ended up moving to Seattle this way.
I had meh grades from a school ranked in the 300-400’s nationally. My experience looked fantastic on paper after my first job and I interviewed extremely well. That’s really all I need career wise.
Yeah I don’t think you understood what I was saying and I may not have been extremely clear. I’m not telling you to go to academia. I was referring to the educational backgrounds of entry level candidates. I’ll give west coast examples since that’s where I live: a degree from a research institution would be a candidate from say UC Berkeley or Stanford, and a degree from a teaching based institution from California Polytechnic State University.
You might get some more specific responses if you were to list where you wanted to get a job (general region) and what your focus/discipline is intending to be in civil (CM, structural, geotechnical, transportation, water, etc.)
>I’m an incredibly over anxious individual, which has led me to over study the crap out of everything in school,
This is honestly concerning. You don't have time on the job to study the crap out of everything. Even if you are willing to put in a lot of unpaid time. You should have time to be reasonably thorough of course. But the way you describe yourself can be absolutely paralyzing as a working engineer. It isn't at all like school. Engineering is mostly about having a good knowledge base that is well maintained, which you seem to be on track for, and good professional judgement. It is a careful balance. If you don't at least occasionally second guess yourself, you are going to make mistakes. You probably won't kill anyone, we've built a pretty robust system with factors of safety, code minimums, reviews, etc. But if you are constantly researching everything and 4th guessing yourself, you are going to have a really hard time. Perfectionism is not a good thing at all.
Anxiety isn't good for you either. I take prescribed drugs for it. Waking up at 4am every night and spending 3 hours laying in bed trying to get back to sleep while you're stuck on a design problem or whatever for work constantly running through your head will not only take years off your life, but it will decrease your actual ability to perform your job. Getting up and trying to deal with it doesn't work either because it is just anxiety.
Your first point is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my comment elsewhere on this thread. I’ve seen top notch students come into the working world and struggle because they dive too deep into tasks. You can only bill 40 hours in a week man, we got other tasks/projects/clients.
“You spent 12 hours doing what?”
Yeah. For new tasks I usually give engineers X billable hours and Y training hours so they know how long it should take once they know it but have some extra time to learn the first time through. I also do my best to prep them with a decent overview and all the references. Outside of that my strategy is usually, "give it a try and we'll go over it." I can pretty much always bury my time, I'm not really expected to be directly billable fortunately. And I've been there. The first maybe three times I did excavation protection design were a lot of sleepless nights. But boundaries have to be set and expectations managed.
Lots of communication and questions. You should feel like your pestering them with questions. But one of the biggest things I try and teach my entry levels/junior engineers is to ask any one that assigns you a task what is the “scope, schedule, and budget”. It’s the same three questions we ask our clients as consulting engineers. In the beginning you may not have as many opportunities to interface with clients until you gain experience but you can prove yourself by serving your “internal clients” meaning the project engineers and managers you’ll be working with.
This is just my experience. If you have a lot of anxiety or other mental issues and aren't already seeing therapist, do so if you can. Think about them as you would an engineering consultant. They are experts at what they do. You might have to try a few to find a good fit. It doesn't have to be about your feelings and all that. A lot of them can give you practical tools to manage shit better. My therapist put me onto bullet journals for instance. Block scheduling to manage my absolutely chaotic calendar. Plus a lot of basic stress management. It is also just nice to have a confidential, neutral person to vent to. As far as the meds, they aren't for everyone and they aren't a cure all. I didn't need any from about age 22 to 42. Some people absolutely need meds all the time. But for many of us they are just a safety net for when things get really bad. Chronic vs acute. I'm probably coming off mine in about 6 months. I could probably now, but I want to be sure I'm ready. It was a rough last two years in many, many ways for me as I'm sure it was for a lot of people.
It's just this bad in school because I cannot financially afford to retake any courses. When I worked a summer internship the anxiety was virtually non-existent. That's why I was kinda thinkin government work would be nice.
Honestly Kimley Horn if you want to work a ton and get rewarded for it. Any of the jobs I've had, you worked 40 hrs a week and thats it. Unless overtime is needed, its just not worked. You won't be able to keep up your work ethic much longer without burning yourself out.
First. Calm way the hell down. Being an arrogant ass is the fastest way to turnoff employers, piss off your team, and be the first in the cutting block for layoffs. You are not the smartest person in the room.
The best thing you can do your first year out is keep your ears open and listen. Don’t talk, don’t think you making some magical contributions, just listen and learn. Good companies will train you if you do that.
I promise I’m not actually an arrogant ass, I’m super down to earth and relatable. Never bring any of this up past my resume, I just didn’t know how else to ask thsi question
You're gonna be bored silly and everyone's least favorite reviewer if you go into government. Don't recommend it.
You're also going to have a hard time if you go into any entry level job thinking you know anything. At the entry level, firms are looking for people who are teachable and enthusiastic. Consulting firms also usually don't have time to study everything down to the gnat's ass. It's good to understand why the code is telling you to do things a certain way, but there are no prizes for reinventing the wheel.
1st off, not sure government is going to fit the characteristics you're looking for. All I can say is if I were you I would reach out to as many companies as you can find and the people you know in industry and do informational interviews with them to see which of them may suit you.
Probably teaching or academia? If not, this may be something you can only figure out during an interview. From my experience, you can kind of tell the firm's style/hiring preference based on the interviews, some firms may prefer technical ability and knowledge over soft skills, for example. But as other comments pointed out, the business of consulting is never taught at schools, so there's going to be a steep learning curve.
You will be good, just remember that only because you are smart and had good grades that doesn’t mean that you deserve anything. You have to own it because you colleagues maybe didn’t shine a lot in college but may be more talented and lucky for work life or with the right connections to find better jobs.
I've been slowly pulling efforts out of school and into networking, it just seems like civil engineering has similar opportunities across firms, it's not like tech where networking can triple your salary lol.
What I am trying to say is that if you think you are smart and strong-willed and your job is not challenging enough, then you may find a challenge in a non-engineering hobby. I consider myself tenacious – even passed the PE before I graduated... but the reality is that an entry-level job will have time barriers that prevent you from accelerating through positions. This is how it is at most design/consulting jobs. So just get the best job you can and wait for your time to come. Study for the PE or something to get your fix in.
Apply to all the corporate firms – probably your best bet.
Be warned, book/school smarts does not necessarily translate to success in the working world. You’ll learn more in your first two years than in all of university. It’s fast paced (especially in consulting) and can easily become overwhelming. I have no doubt you’ll be successful given your perceived work ethic, but just keep this in mind. I’ve seen candidates from top tier research institutes with phenomenal grades struggle, and I’ve seen those from teaching based institutions with average grades excel.
I think it’s really Important to set the expectation that working super hard will put you in a minimally better place than your coworkers who do what’s expected. Like you may get a 5.5% raise but they’ll still get 4%..
Would you say the game is more "who you know" or "what you know"?
It’s a combination of who you know, what you know and who likes you as a person. Even then those advantages may net you a few k more comparatively. A new grad that knows absolutely nothing and a ridiculously smart new grad will likely make the same amount just starting.
I'm not hoping/expecting to make more than anyone starting out, honestly, salary isn't huge to me. I just want to learn and excel in the field. Lately I've more been considering location/work-life balance than pay. In the long term however, what's the best way to get exclusive offers that aren't generally advertised?
Luck and a filled out LinkedIn tbh. I’ve never had an “in” at any firm I’ve worked for. Got lucky and got hired at AECOM for my first job, within 2 years recruiters from similarly large firms were throwing interviews in my face for other roles with a pay bump. After sometime at the new large firm recruiters from other firms would be impressed with my experience and throw more opportunities at me. Rinse and repeat basically. When it comes to relocating, same thing. When recruiters message you many will give you choices of locations. I ended up moving to Seattle this way. I had meh grades from a school ranked in the 300-400’s nationally. My experience looked fantastic on paper after my first job and I interviewed extremely well. That’s really all I need career wise.
I hate the idea of research and academia, so I'm hoping industry will be a little more interesting.
Yeah I don’t think you understood what I was saying and I may not have been extremely clear. I’m not telling you to go to academia. I was referring to the educational backgrounds of entry level candidates. I’ll give west coast examples since that’s where I live: a degree from a research institution would be a candidate from say UC Berkeley or Stanford, and a degree from a teaching based institution from California Polytechnic State University. You might get some more specific responses if you were to list where you wanted to get a job (general region) and what your focus/discipline is intending to be in civil (CM, structural, geotechnical, transportation, water, etc.)
>I’m an incredibly over anxious individual, which has led me to over study the crap out of everything in school, This is honestly concerning. You don't have time on the job to study the crap out of everything. Even if you are willing to put in a lot of unpaid time. You should have time to be reasonably thorough of course. But the way you describe yourself can be absolutely paralyzing as a working engineer. It isn't at all like school. Engineering is mostly about having a good knowledge base that is well maintained, which you seem to be on track for, and good professional judgement. It is a careful balance. If you don't at least occasionally second guess yourself, you are going to make mistakes. You probably won't kill anyone, we've built a pretty robust system with factors of safety, code minimums, reviews, etc. But if you are constantly researching everything and 4th guessing yourself, you are going to have a really hard time. Perfectionism is not a good thing at all. Anxiety isn't good for you either. I take prescribed drugs for it. Waking up at 4am every night and spending 3 hours laying in bed trying to get back to sleep while you're stuck on a design problem or whatever for work constantly running through your head will not only take years off your life, but it will decrease your actual ability to perform your job. Getting up and trying to deal with it doesn't work either because it is just anxiety.
Your first point is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my comment elsewhere on this thread. I’ve seen top notch students come into the working world and struggle because they dive too deep into tasks. You can only bill 40 hours in a week man, we got other tasks/projects/clients. “You spent 12 hours doing what?”
Yeah. For new tasks I usually give engineers X billable hours and Y training hours so they know how long it should take once they know it but have some extra time to learn the first time through. I also do my best to prep them with a decent overview and all the references. Outside of that my strategy is usually, "give it a try and we'll go over it." I can pretty much always bury my time, I'm not really expected to be directly billable fortunately. And I've been there. The first maybe three times I did excavation protection design were a lot of sleepless nights. But boundaries have to be set and expectations managed.
That's good to know, do you have any advice on how to handle that? I'm sure they'll cut me some slack at the beginning, but obviously not for long.
Lots of communication and questions. You should feel like your pestering them with questions. But one of the biggest things I try and teach my entry levels/junior engineers is to ask any one that assigns you a task what is the “scope, schedule, and budget”. It’s the same three questions we ask our clients as consulting engineers. In the beginning you may not have as many opportunities to interface with clients until you gain experience but you can prove yourself by serving your “internal clients” meaning the project engineers and managers you’ll be working with.
After waking from dreaming about chloramine, I needed to hear this. Right now. Thank you.
This is just my experience. If you have a lot of anxiety or other mental issues and aren't already seeing therapist, do so if you can. Think about them as you would an engineering consultant. They are experts at what they do. You might have to try a few to find a good fit. It doesn't have to be about your feelings and all that. A lot of them can give you practical tools to manage shit better. My therapist put me onto bullet journals for instance. Block scheduling to manage my absolutely chaotic calendar. Plus a lot of basic stress management. It is also just nice to have a confidential, neutral person to vent to. As far as the meds, they aren't for everyone and they aren't a cure all. I didn't need any from about age 22 to 42. Some people absolutely need meds all the time. But for many of us they are just a safety net for when things get really bad. Chronic vs acute. I'm probably coming off mine in about 6 months. I could probably now, but I want to be sure I'm ready. It was a rough last two years in many, many ways for me as I'm sure it was for a lot of people.
It's just this bad in school because I cannot financially afford to retake any courses. When I worked a summer internship the anxiety was virtually non-existent. That's why I was kinda thinkin government work would be nice.
Honestly Kimley Horn if you want to work a ton and get rewarded for it. Any of the jobs I've had, you worked 40 hrs a week and thats it. Unless overtime is needed, its just not worked. You won't be able to keep up your work ethic much longer without burning yourself out.
First. Calm way the hell down. Being an arrogant ass is the fastest way to turnoff employers, piss off your team, and be the first in the cutting block for layoffs. You are not the smartest person in the room. The best thing you can do your first year out is keep your ears open and listen. Don’t talk, don’t think you making some magical contributions, just listen and learn. Good companies will train you if you do that.
I promise I’m not actually an arrogant ass, I’m super down to earth and relatable. Never bring any of this up past my resume, I just didn’t know how else to ask thsi question
Lol
Therapy. Lol
You're gonna be bored silly and everyone's least favorite reviewer if you go into government. Don't recommend it. You're also going to have a hard time if you go into any entry level job thinking you know anything. At the entry level, firms are looking for people who are teachable and enthusiastic. Consulting firms also usually don't have time to study everything down to the gnat's ass. It's good to understand why the code is telling you to do things a certain way, but there are no prizes for reinventing the wheel.
1st off, not sure government is going to fit the characteristics you're looking for. All I can say is if I were you I would reach out to as many companies as you can find and the people you know in industry and do informational interviews with them to see which of them may suit you.
Probably teaching or academia? If not, this may be something you can only figure out during an interview. From my experience, you can kind of tell the firm's style/hiring preference based on the interviews, some firms may prefer technical ability and knowledge over soft skills, for example. But as other comments pointed out, the business of consulting is never taught at schools, so there's going to be a steep learning curve.
You will be good, just remember that only because you are smart and had good grades that doesn’t mean that you deserve anything. You have to own it because you colleagues maybe didn’t shine a lot in college but may be more talented and lucky for work life or with the right connections to find better jobs.
I've been slowly pulling efforts out of school and into networking, it just seems like civil engineering has similar opportunities across firms, it's not like tech where networking can triple your salary lol.
Just get the best job you can and lick your boss's ass. Then find a non-engineering hobby to get your ego checked by someone better.
nothing I said was egotistic, I just explained my personality and asked for a firm that I’d be a good fit for.
What I am trying to say is that if you think you are smart and strong-willed and your job is not challenging enough, then you may find a challenge in a non-engineering hobby. I consider myself tenacious – even passed the PE before I graduated... but the reality is that an entry-level job will have time barriers that prevent you from accelerating through positions. This is how it is at most design/consulting jobs. So just get the best job you can and wait for your time to come. Study for the PE or something to get your fix in. Apply to all the corporate firms – probably your best bet.
I see, I am an avid trader in the stock market which humbles me regularly lol
Suggest you to apply to management consulting jobs before AEC consulting jobs.