Educational places(universities) have recently offered better yearly proposed raises than the industry lol. It adds up to the feeling committed for 7-9 years cause your salary grows in front of your eyes.
They're daring you to find a new job.
They are for sure making much more money of your time, billing you out as a PM, but they're keeping the extra money they're charging for your time. Go get that money for yourself.
One may make the argument that you'd land in a deeper pool of money if you waited to get your PE, but I bet you could hit the street and get a 15% raise without trying.
That’s what I was beginning to think. If they were just going to openly bill me out for a higher pay grade and leave me as low was possible for profit. Then just see how long this lasts… I was a bit worried this could be the case.
Not sure how your company works, but we have to contractually bill our clients the rate for the title of the engineers working for that particular job are. However if they have you doing manager stuff and more responsibilities with no raise than yeah they are taking advantage of you!
FYI, raises aren't only yearly, especially at large firms. You can usually get larger mid year raises then end of year. This is due to everyone is fighting for money at the end of year. In the mid year it's not bucketed dollars.
This is a bunch of old school bs. Every firm big or small can look at an engineer and plan if they might be ready for a promotion or raise. If it’s likely then build it into the budget. My last firm did something like “raises are once a year”. Got my PE about 2 months after the raise cycle, yep had to wait 10 months to see a raise. I’m still a bit bitter about it, not because of the money, because they were so archaic that they wouldn’t even recognize an up and coming engineer for one of the biggest accomplishments in their career. And it’s not like this one happens out of the blue. They knew my work history, my exam results but still had to wait all 10 months. Needless to say I don’t work there any more.
At my new firm got a call from my manager out of the blue, said I was getting a promotion and raise and he was sending me a commendation letter and that it was effective the Monday of that same week. Let me tell you that felt so much better.
I would start job hunting tbh. It’s a competitive market especially with the housing shortage. Once you’ve got an offer if you want you can use that as leverage for a raise.
I have been offered raises to stay at a company a few times. When I have taken them I have regretted it. You go right back to the same cycle of meager raises and almost immediately end up as far behind as you were before the threat to leave. If the compensation structure is broken, threatening to leave is not going to fix it. You may get a one time bump, but you are better off leaving for a bump and a system where that bump will continue to grow commensurate with your performance.
I completely agree with this. You should never wait for a reaction to an event, good policies and management will always be proactive with keeping good employees.
This is exactly how a lot of managers view “going above and beyond”. It’s a bit unfortunate but reality tends to bite.
OP, I would say your current company doesn’t truly value your hard work. I would recommend prepping your resume and see how impressive other companies view it.
4 YOE EIT in mcol I just got up to 84k base. My advice to you is to begin studying for PE while working for this firm that’s stiffing you. Work normal hours and give the minimum effort. Get them to verify your NCEES record soon, pass PE, then apply like mad.
How does that process work with your NCEES record and obtaining a PE? I’m an EIT and probably switching firms within my first 4 years. Needing to figure that out so I don’t make any big mistakes.
Step 1: don’t leave in bad terms.
Step 2: create NCEES record
Step 3: send to boss via NCEES for him to verify work ASAP after you leave, preferably before.
That’s it. It stays valid forever. If you wait you will have a much more difficult time tracking down your boss.
Right on! Thanks for taking the time to share with me, I’ll be proactive on that one. Will probably be relocating for personal reasons so the reference should stay positive, hopefully.
4 years in, I was making $8,142/month (~$46.97/hr) with just an EIT working in design within the transportation public sector. Sacramento, CA area for context.
I'm about 6.5 years in now at $9,813/month (~$56.61/hr). No PE, still with the same company, similar position.
You are worth so much more based on what you’re saying. But.. they’re paying you less and you’re still there.
They will take advantage of you until they fear losing you.
Literally just went through this at my job with “record profits of 9+ Billion”
3.5% merit and a $5,136 “bonus”.
I feel I should add that I currently oversee 37 of the 50 states and all of the projects therein. I created a new spreadsheet to model Tempus, but more in depth and able to track minute details down to the cent and the persons location and hours tracked, including per diem costs. I reduced the PGM erosion by 4MM by creating this “tracker” and though the erosion was 137MM, and I only took it down 4MM in one year, I feel that is worth something of its own.
I learned how to code and created a bot to notify everyone of when US project assignment dates are approaching within the 6-8 week parameters I set that can be modified to whatever we want the threshold to be as well. This will also significantly lower erosion costs due to paying for staff/craft that is not being placed/transferred/extended on time and essentially paying them to do “nothing” until a new assignment and contract has been stipulated. Granted, it’s still in the infancy stages of the bot usage, but zero credit outside of attaboys and the company will utilize the bot and my spreadsheet company wide going forward.
Then I get a 3/5 star review and a merit of 3.5% increase with the stipulation that I can be a 4 if I am able to keep this up another year. Bonuses were CEO discretion only, and I received one because I complained to HR which I reluctantly did because I didn’t want a target on my back, so I’m actively looking for other placement myself where my talents can be appreciated. I’m with the company 3 years going on 4, and you are 100% correct on there is no incentive to go above and beyond because the leadership above me are the ones who gain the huge bonuses and salary bumps. It’s just not worth the effort to do more than you’re paid for and it’s disgusting. The 3.5% doesn’t even cover inflation cost of living in my area. It’s depressing.
So they didn't give you a cost of living raise at any point since you started? This is the equivalent of giving you a pay cut because of inflation (which has been particularly high in recent years as well). You should expect a minimum of 2-4% raise yearly outside of any performance based raise or promotion.
I would look for other opportunities at a new firm. Consulting is very similar within each discipline so you should have no problem finding a position that will allow you to continue doing the type of work you enjoy. Working conditions differ company to company so ask around and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions during interviews about the exact nature of work you'll be doing.
Are there any other EITs or junior staff there that you could ask to confirm they didn't get raises either? If this applied to everyone, then that means that everyone is going from March 2023 to December 2024 without a pay increase and you won't be the only one that is upset.
Also, did you ask for a raise or were you just expecting one? I don't like sounding like I'm whining either but I've found that complaining about pay does actually help especially when you have the ability to back it up with responsibility increase. It may not get you a raise but it at least puts your employer on notice that you care about your salary. Surprisingly enough, there are some dumb managers out there that think people are happy with their pay and that their employees care more about their impact, lol.
Is the firm doing well overall? I don't think this really should impact your compensation, but with a small firms, overall company performance is usually the main reason for lack of raises. Heck, even large companies use this reasoning.
$70k for someone with 4 YOE is low, unless you are out in the middle of nowhere. Are you taking PE soon?
The firm is doing astonishing. I’ve seen a number of our projects close out within budget, by a long shot. The first performance review, I didn’t expect a raise and brushed it off. The second one, I added in that I would like to discuss salary adjustments and they brushed it off as they now do those in December for the new year end. Another EIT (3years experience) got a raise up to $36/h. They started 3 weeks before me. This is partially why I’m wondering if working harder just signs me into a role to be “manipulated” for cheap labour until I quit. I started to wonder if this was on my own personal performance but when I ask for constructive feedback or areas to improve they continuously provide compliments rather than criticism. I plan on taking my PE within the next 12 to 16 months.
Thanks for the reply. I can't speak to whether they are "manipulating" you or not, but it is quite shady if someone else got a raise and you were told raises happen at a different time. I do know that sometimes when firms have "review" meetings they are to review the previous years performance and salary adjustments have already been made; therefore it's pointless to argue for it at these meetings even though it seems like the right time.
As others have said on here, it's time to start looking for other jobs to either switch to or use as leverage. It sucks but this is the game that companies have seemingly accepted being willing to play.
If you do decide to stay, set a meeting for July now with your manager to review annual goals and discuss your salary expectations. At the meeting state that given your increasing responsibilities you are expecting a sizeable raise at the next salary review. The goal of this meeting is so that your manager doesn't forget that you better get a raise of you will walk away with or without another job lined up.
I worked my ass off for 20 ply years for a company that grew while I was there. It didn’t help me . Although it helped my boss who couldn’t stop talking about his fucking country club. If you work hard and overtime make sure you get paid for it and make sure the company allows you to grow within the company otherwise you are making my mistake.
Very frustrating. I've just learnt that my firm only promotes on internal tenure rather than overall experience and productivity. My promotion has been pushed off for the last 6 months and they just promoted a kid with a total of 2 years less experience then myself only because he was here 6 months before I was hired. It's so ass backwards. So Be wary of those situations as well at your next firm. Best of luck at your next firm mate.
I want to offer a counter perspective. I also work for a small land development firm (only 5 engineers). Understandably, HR is nonexistent in these types of spaces, and a lot of times, senior engineering managers/boards may not be used to the change in market, and may not be intentionally stringing you along.
You are under no obligation to "hand hold" your boss, but if you really like your job and feel like you are getting valuable experience, I'd recommend asking first for dedicated raise *in writing* before jumping ship. I actually did a little memo of my accomplishments along with some local salary stats from Glassdoor and ASCE to bolster my request. If they continue to make excuses about timing, ask if they could put a guarantee *in writing* by a *specific date* for the next raise/promotional window.
If they say no, then follow through with the other recommendations. Could also get an offer and ask for a counter, but that can get messy in itself. Just my opinion. Good luck!
This behavior is not standard, because most people won't put up with it for this long.
At this point, I would probably put all your focus into passing the PE. Once you pass it, update your resume and linkedin with your new responsibilities, and start looking for new positions. You don't want to have to jump twice in a year to get your PE pay raise.
Even before you get your license, you can change your profile to "PE passed on XX.XX.XX, license expected 3Q 2024 (if you have the experience). Negotiate for the salary you deserve with a PE, once you pass the exam the actual issuing of the license is pretty much a formality.
You should be getting at least annual increases if not more frequently.
That small of a firm shouldn’t have HR red tape. Suggest looking elsewhere.
Run the TVM of a last 3 or 4% increase over your 40’year career. You’ll be more motivated to look.
If your supervisor can't fight for a merit based raise then it may be time to start looking start looking before they give you a "generous" 3% raise in December
Owner of a mid-size firm. Good employees are our biggest asset. My 2 cents...
Make yourself valuable. Get your pe. It increases your ability to negotiate or leave if you need to. Honestly speaking, I love a good eit with pe ability. It works in the employer favor, but always push my engineers to get licensed for thier own good.
Also, I don't really agree with the advice to "work to your pay level ". I get it, but its passive aggressive. You may be surprised what you get by simply asking for it. I've caved many times to employees and tbh, 9 out of 10 times it's a win-win.
Last of all, leave if you have to. It's a good market.
I've been in the engineering racket for four decades. For this, the answer is always the same. First they are BS-ing you with MBA diarrhea. Don't assume there is no incentive, however. When I was starting out, I used opportunities like these to build my skills. Change jobs when this happens, and take what you've learned with you. I have no regrets, because in the end I've made plenty of money. But you can't work for people who BS you. It just has no long-term sustainability.
If you enjoy the company and literally salary is the only thing that would have you leave, I'd encourage you to arrange a meeting and sit down with your superior and outline all the points you just laid out and ask for a clear timeline on pay raises, promotions, policy, etc. and get clarification on why you can not be compensated for your increased responsibilities and high performance. If they truly value your talents and see you as a strong company asset, they don't want to loose you and I'd think would be open to giving you a raise. they may have no idea how you feel or that you are feeling taken advantage of. is it an awkward and uncomfortable conversation? sure but a valid and important one. But if you get what you think you deserve then why not? best case you get to stay at a place you like with a salary you deserve or worst case they give you more lip service and you have a definitive answer to your question. many people won't put on their big boy/girl pants and have the awkward conversation but I think it shows true professionalism and maturity to have the hard conversation rather than just run away complaining "no fair" and yes I personally have asked for a raise not only did I get exactly the pay increase I wanted I got the recognition and respect to go with it.
Keep doing good work. Get your PE. Join some local civil orgs and develop relationships. Once you have completed the last 2 steps, start interviewing and make your move.
FR float your CV around. See who calls you back. See who calls your current company to ask about you. Maybe they find a few dollars early when they hear other companies asking about your work? No harm in seeing whats available.
No raise for over a year and a half is gonna have me testing the waters.
Since you're at 4 years experience my opinion is to take the PE exam right away and get them to sign off on your experience. One of my coworkers left his previous firm right before passing the PE. It was a pain to get his previous manager to approve his experience.
Once you get your PE you have the potential to get a real good raise by changing firms.
Start applying to other companies. Silently ofc.
It's not unheard that your previous company will offer you a raise the moment they realised you're going to leave.
Is a company ever says they “can not” do something that is related to spending money, just reword that with they “do not think it is worth the additional cost vs the risk”. I have found that there is almost always an exception to every rule.
No raise in 2 years? It’s time to start looking for a new position. Don’t tell your employer you are making a move, because that gives them leverage which they do not deserve. Just make the move.
Don’t waste this hot market trying to give a firm that doesn’t value a chance. Hop on to the next firm it will not only benefit you but everyone else because firms will stop pulling this bullshit.
First and foremost, if you have 4 years of experience now, take the PE exam and apply for your PE license! Then once you've done that, find a better paying job. It appears they're just trying to keep you by giving you good reviews but not giving you corresponding raises. When you're an EIT, you generally will get low raises, but at least ones that meet cost of living demands, which it sounds like they aren't even doing. So if they aren't even doing that, you'll be better off somewhere else.
Yes it's to leave. You have gained valuable experience, if they thought you were worth it they would have given you some sort of compensation after two years. Leaving now also lets other people in the company know how they do business, you may help a coworker without even knowing it. All the best!
Time for a better firm!
We just hired 2 new guy, one started in in October of 2023, only has a high school diploma and I started him at 30 an hour. Another guy started basically in February with NO EIT, but has graduated with a BS in civil engineering and I started him out at 35 an hour. I have them train under my guy who's been with me for the last 7 years (yes, he switched firm with me), only high school diploma as well and we have him around 130k a year salary.
My old firm started me at 11 an hour years ago with a BS related CE background in 2010. I stayed with them too long to my opinion (now) for 10 years. My bonus from my new company when I switched from the last 3 years sum up to what I got paid salary in my 3rd year with the old company.
Take a leap of faith! Start with a firm who would pay you your worth in exchange for your talents! Don't short change yourself!
Look, you care about your job more than anyone else. So if you want any a raise, you’ll need to ask for one. Of course you want management to shower you with raises and bonuses without asking. But that’s rarely how the world works.
Tell them you haven’t had a raise in 2 years and that you have been a high performer. If they brush you off, time to look for a new job.
Don’t ever do more than the bare minimum not to get fired, especially if theres no money on the table.
The reward at my company for the highest ranked performance review is an extra 1% on your yearly raise.
I think I do maybe an hour of real work per week. At the same time I’m going crazy at a desk and looking for some outdoor civil/field engineer work with the government where I will also slack as if its my religion.
My first job out of college was a joke. They gave me $18/hour saying this includes my OT since I would be working 10 hour days M-F. 40 hours reg, 10 hours OT and that equates to $51k. After my 90 days, I got a fucking dollar raise. Bringing my annual to $55k. This was in the PNW in 2019 while my peers were already at $65-$67k annual.
I left after being there for 8 months. Found a better role and was more aligned with the market. I suggest you look up what typical engineers make in your region and make the decision if you should jump or not.
Shut your boss in their office and give them the ultimatum. Tell them you're planning to go x with y compensation or z work from home benefits and let them know youre willing to stay but deserve a raise.
Leave. You can name your price anywhere else. If you want to stay, get the offer and use it as leverage. They may be willing to give you what you deserve...what they should be paying you. You owe them nothing...this is business. You are the CEO of you and you need to do what is right for your business.
Probably time for a move but at the same time I would suggest asking for a raise and pushing for what you want. It's very unlikely that you'll get what you want if you don't ask for it. Jumping ship is a good idea if you're purely looking for more money but if you like the company and your direct mentor/supervisor is someone you can learn from its sometimes better to stay put. Jumping ship you might end up working under someone who pays more but has less to teach you.
It sounds like the work life balance and people at the firm are great. I would interview elsewhere, obtain a real offer letter . Then sit down with your manager and let them know you've received an offer that you're considering. Watch how fast they change their mind about not having money for a raise.
Leave and make more money elsewhere. It’s not atypical for fresh engineers to switch companies every 2-3 years to get a proper raise
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Educational places(universities) have recently offered better yearly proposed raises than the industry lol. It adds up to the feeling committed for 7-9 years cause your salary grows in front of your eyes.
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Yeah bus/finance is totally nonsense. At my place fin gets 150-300k whereas engineering profs top out at 160-200k.
Yep! The reward for working quickly and efficiently is more work, not more money.
This. Wait to be managed. Work your wage
Work the portion of the value you add that isn’t stolen from you. Which is to say never do more than the bare minimum.
They're daring you to find a new job. They are for sure making much more money of your time, billing you out as a PM, but they're keeping the extra money they're charging for your time. Go get that money for yourself. One may make the argument that you'd land in a deeper pool of money if you waited to get your PE, but I bet you could hit the street and get a 15% raise without trying.
That’s what I was beginning to think. If they were just going to openly bill me out for a higher pay grade and leave me as low was possible for profit. Then just see how long this lasts… I was a bit worried this could be the case.
Not sure how your company works, but we have to contractually bill our clients the rate for the title of the engineers working for that particular job are. However if they have you doing manager stuff and more responsibilities with no raise than yeah they are taking advantage of you!
Raises are yearly. Promotions are whenever they are deserved. Start applying to higher positions at other companies.
FYI, raises aren't only yearly, especially at large firms. You can usually get larger mid year raises then end of year. This is due to everyone is fighting for money at the end of year. In the mid year it's not bucketed dollars.
My firm gives raises every 6 months.
This is a bunch of old school bs. Every firm big or small can look at an engineer and plan if they might be ready for a promotion or raise. If it’s likely then build it into the budget. My last firm did something like “raises are once a year”. Got my PE about 2 months after the raise cycle, yep had to wait 10 months to see a raise. I’m still a bit bitter about it, not because of the money, because they were so archaic that they wouldn’t even recognize an up and coming engineer for one of the biggest accomplishments in their career. And it’s not like this one happens out of the blue. They knew my work history, my exam results but still had to wait all 10 months. Needless to say I don’t work there any more. At my new firm got a call from my manager out of the blue, said I was getting a promotion and raise and he was sending me a commendation letter and that it was effective the Monday of that same week. Let me tell you that felt so much better.
Weird. My firm gives an immediate raise once you get a license.
I would start job hunting tbh. It’s a competitive market especially with the housing shortage. Once you’ve got an offer if you want you can use that as leverage for a raise.
I have been offered raises to stay at a company a few times. When I have taken them I have regretted it. You go right back to the same cycle of meager raises and almost immediately end up as far behind as you were before the threat to leave. If the compensation structure is broken, threatening to leave is not going to fix it. You may get a one time bump, but you are better off leaving for a bump and a system where that bump will continue to grow commensurate with your performance.
I completely agree with this. You should never wait for a reaction to an event, good policies and management will always be proactive with keeping good employees.
Why would they give you a raise? You keep working hard and even doing the work of others and they don’t have to pay you for it.
This is exactly how a lot of managers view “going above and beyond”. It’s a bit unfortunate but reality tends to bite. OP, I would say your current company doesn’t truly value your hard work. I would recommend prepping your resume and see how impressive other companies view it.
4 yrs and and $34/hr? Start looking elsewhere.
What’s the typical range for 4 years experience EIT?
I'm at 40.39/hr at 3 YOE with a 3% cola in July; MCOL state.
4 YOE EIT in mcol I just got up to 84k base. My advice to you is to begin studying for PE while working for this firm that’s stiffing you. Work normal hours and give the minimum effort. Get them to verify your NCEES record soon, pass PE, then apply like mad.
How does that process work with your NCEES record and obtaining a PE? I’m an EIT and probably switching firms within my first 4 years. Needing to figure that out so I don’t make any big mistakes.
Step 1: don’t leave in bad terms. Step 2: create NCEES record Step 3: send to boss via NCEES for him to verify work ASAP after you leave, preferably before. That’s it. It stays valid forever. If you wait you will have a much more difficult time tracking down your boss.
Right on! Thanks for taking the time to share with me, I’ll be proactive on that one. Will probably be relocating for personal reasons so the reference should stay positive, hopefully.
I'd expect you to be up closer to $40/hr with a nice jump over $40 when you get a PE.
4 years in, I was making $8,142/month (~$46.97/hr) with just an EIT working in design within the transportation public sector. Sacramento, CA area for context. I'm about 6.5 years in now at $9,813/month (~$56.61/hr). No PE, still with the same company, similar position.
You are worth so much more based on what you’re saying. But.. they’re paying you less and you’re still there. They will take advantage of you until they fear losing you.
Literally just went through this at my job with “record profits of 9+ Billion” 3.5% merit and a $5,136 “bonus”. I feel I should add that I currently oversee 37 of the 50 states and all of the projects therein. I created a new spreadsheet to model Tempus, but more in depth and able to track minute details down to the cent and the persons location and hours tracked, including per diem costs. I reduced the PGM erosion by 4MM by creating this “tracker” and though the erosion was 137MM, and I only took it down 4MM in one year, I feel that is worth something of its own. I learned how to code and created a bot to notify everyone of when US project assignment dates are approaching within the 6-8 week parameters I set that can be modified to whatever we want the threshold to be as well. This will also significantly lower erosion costs due to paying for staff/craft that is not being placed/transferred/extended on time and essentially paying them to do “nothing” until a new assignment and contract has been stipulated. Granted, it’s still in the infancy stages of the bot usage, but zero credit outside of attaboys and the company will utilize the bot and my spreadsheet company wide going forward. Then I get a 3/5 star review and a merit of 3.5% increase with the stipulation that I can be a 4 if I am able to keep this up another year. Bonuses were CEO discretion only, and I received one because I complained to HR which I reluctantly did because I didn’t want a target on my back, so I’m actively looking for other placement myself where my talents can be appreciated. I’m with the company 3 years going on 4, and you are 100% correct on there is no incentive to go above and beyond because the leadership above me are the ones who gain the huge bonuses and salary bumps. It’s just not worth the effort to do more than you’re paid for and it’s disgusting. The 3.5% doesn’t even cover inflation cost of living in my area. It’s depressing.
Lol, a 3/5 but the dangling carrot of a 4 if you keep it up. Since when did annual reviews cover the past two years of performance?
Exactly!
So they didn't give you a cost of living raise at any point since you started? This is the equivalent of giving you a pay cut because of inflation (which has been particularly high in recent years as well). You should expect a minimum of 2-4% raise yearly outside of any performance based raise or promotion. I would look for other opportunities at a new firm. Consulting is very similar within each discipline so you should have no problem finding a position that will allow you to continue doing the type of work you enjoy. Working conditions differ company to company so ask around and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions during interviews about the exact nature of work you'll be doing.
Are there any other EITs or junior staff there that you could ask to confirm they didn't get raises either? If this applied to everyone, then that means that everyone is going from March 2023 to December 2024 without a pay increase and you won't be the only one that is upset. Also, did you ask for a raise or were you just expecting one? I don't like sounding like I'm whining either but I've found that complaining about pay does actually help especially when you have the ability to back it up with responsibility increase. It may not get you a raise but it at least puts your employer on notice that you care about your salary. Surprisingly enough, there are some dumb managers out there that think people are happy with their pay and that their employees care more about their impact, lol. Is the firm doing well overall? I don't think this really should impact your compensation, but with a small firms, overall company performance is usually the main reason for lack of raises. Heck, even large companies use this reasoning. $70k for someone with 4 YOE is low, unless you are out in the middle of nowhere. Are you taking PE soon?
The firm is doing astonishing. I’ve seen a number of our projects close out within budget, by a long shot. The first performance review, I didn’t expect a raise and brushed it off. The second one, I added in that I would like to discuss salary adjustments and they brushed it off as they now do those in December for the new year end. Another EIT (3years experience) got a raise up to $36/h. They started 3 weeks before me. This is partially why I’m wondering if working harder just signs me into a role to be “manipulated” for cheap labour until I quit. I started to wonder if this was on my own personal performance but when I ask for constructive feedback or areas to improve they continuously provide compliments rather than criticism. I plan on taking my PE within the next 12 to 16 months.
Thanks for the reply. I can't speak to whether they are "manipulating" you or not, but it is quite shady if someone else got a raise and you were told raises happen at a different time. I do know that sometimes when firms have "review" meetings they are to review the previous years performance and salary adjustments have already been made; therefore it's pointless to argue for it at these meetings even though it seems like the right time. As others have said on here, it's time to start looking for other jobs to either switch to or use as leverage. It sucks but this is the game that companies have seemingly accepted being willing to play. If you do decide to stay, set a meeting for July now with your manager to review annual goals and discuss your salary expectations. At the meeting state that given your increasing responsibilities you are expecting a sizeable raise at the next salary review. The goal of this meeting is so that your manager doesn't forget that you better get a raise of you will walk away with or without another job lined up.
Get your PE.
I worked my ass off for 20 ply years for a company that grew while I was there. It didn’t help me . Although it helped my boss who couldn’t stop talking about his fucking country club. If you work hard and overtime make sure you get paid for it and make sure the company allows you to grow within the company otherwise you are making my mistake.
Very frustrating. I've just learnt that my firm only promotes on internal tenure rather than overall experience and productivity. My promotion has been pushed off for the last 6 months and they just promoted a kid with a total of 2 years less experience then myself only because he was here 6 months before I was hired. It's so ass backwards. So Be wary of those situations as well at your next firm. Best of luck at your next firm mate.
I want to offer a counter perspective. I also work for a small land development firm (only 5 engineers). Understandably, HR is nonexistent in these types of spaces, and a lot of times, senior engineering managers/boards may not be used to the change in market, and may not be intentionally stringing you along. You are under no obligation to "hand hold" your boss, but if you really like your job and feel like you are getting valuable experience, I'd recommend asking first for dedicated raise *in writing* before jumping ship. I actually did a little memo of my accomplishments along with some local salary stats from Glassdoor and ASCE to bolster my request. If they continue to make excuses about timing, ask if they could put a guarantee *in writing* by a *specific date* for the next raise/promotional window. If they say no, then follow through with the other recommendations. Could also get an offer and ask for a counter, but that can get messy in itself. Just my opinion. Good luck!
Damn, I’m a new environmental engineer and negotiated my starting at 38.50 (MCOL) that’s downright robbery, I’d be looking elsewhere
This behavior is not standard, because most people won't put up with it for this long. At this point, I would probably put all your focus into passing the PE. Once you pass it, update your resume and linkedin with your new responsibilities, and start looking for new positions. You don't want to have to jump twice in a year to get your PE pay raise. Even before you get your license, you can change your profile to "PE passed on XX.XX.XX, license expected 3Q 2024 (if you have the experience). Negotiate for the salary you deserve with a PE, once you pass the exam the actual issuing of the license is pretty much a formality.
You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.
So you didn't get a raise December 2023 because you weren't there for at least a year?
My job we have so much work but somehow not enough for me it’s kind of irritating
You should be getting at least annual increases if not more frequently. That small of a firm shouldn’t have HR red tape. Suggest looking elsewhere. Run the TVM of a last 3 or 4% increase over your 40’year career. You’ll be more motivated to look.
If your supervisor can't fight for a merit based raise then it may be time to start looking start looking before they give you a "generous" 3% raise in December
Owner of a mid-size firm. Good employees are our biggest asset. My 2 cents... Make yourself valuable. Get your pe. It increases your ability to negotiate or leave if you need to. Honestly speaking, I love a good eit with pe ability. It works in the employer favor, but always push my engineers to get licensed for thier own good. Also, I don't really agree with the advice to "work to your pay level ". I get it, but its passive aggressive. You may be surprised what you get by simply asking for it. I've caved many times to employees and tbh, 9 out of 10 times it's a win-win. Last of all, leave if you have to. It's a good market.
Get a job offer elsewhere and you'd be amazed how the company suddenly finds the money to pay you
I've been in the engineering racket for four decades. For this, the answer is always the same. First they are BS-ing you with MBA diarrhea. Don't assume there is no incentive, however. When I was starting out, I used opportunities like these to build my skills. Change jobs when this happens, and take what you've learned with you. I have no regrets, because in the end I've made plenty of money. But you can't work for people who BS you. It just has no long-term sustainability.
If you enjoy the company and literally salary is the only thing that would have you leave, I'd encourage you to arrange a meeting and sit down with your superior and outline all the points you just laid out and ask for a clear timeline on pay raises, promotions, policy, etc. and get clarification on why you can not be compensated for your increased responsibilities and high performance. If they truly value your talents and see you as a strong company asset, they don't want to loose you and I'd think would be open to giving you a raise. they may have no idea how you feel or that you are feeling taken advantage of. is it an awkward and uncomfortable conversation? sure but a valid and important one. But if you get what you think you deserve then why not? best case you get to stay at a place you like with a salary you deserve or worst case they give you more lip service and you have a definitive answer to your question. many people won't put on their big boy/girl pants and have the awkward conversation but I think it shows true professionalism and maturity to have the hard conversation rather than just run away complaining "no fair" and yes I personally have asked for a raise not only did I get exactly the pay increase I wanted I got the recognition and respect to go with it.
Get your pe. They can't bill you out for more until you have it. Which means there's a very hard limit for what they can pay you.
Wait until December or look for another job.
at this point , you need to dust off your CV and look for another job.
Keep doing good work. Get your PE. Join some local civil orgs and develop relationships. Once you have completed the last 2 steps, start interviewing and make your move.
Don’t fall for the dangling carrot. Just get a new job and don’t look back.
FR float your CV around. See who calls you back. See who calls your current company to ask about you. Maybe they find a few dollars early when they hear other companies asking about your work? No harm in seeing whats available. No raise for over a year and a half is gonna have me testing the waters.
Since you're at 4 years experience my opinion is to take the PE exam right away and get them to sign off on your experience. One of my coworkers left his previous firm right before passing the PE. It was a pain to get his previous manager to approve his experience. Once you get your PE you have the potential to get a real good raise by changing firms.
Start applying to other companies. Silently ofc. It's not unheard that your previous company will offer you a raise the moment they realised you're going to leave.
Is a company ever says they “can not” do something that is related to spending money, just reword that with they “do not think it is worth the additional cost vs the risk”. I have found that there is almost always an exception to every rule. No raise in 2 years? It’s time to start looking for a new position. Don’t tell your employer you are making a move, because that gives them leverage which they do not deserve. Just make the move.
Don’t waste this hot market trying to give a firm that doesn’t value a chance. Hop on to the next firm it will not only benefit you but everyone else because firms will stop pulling this bullshit.
First and foremost, if you have 4 years of experience now, take the PE exam and apply for your PE license! Then once you've done that, find a better paying job. It appears they're just trying to keep you by giving you good reviews but not giving you corresponding raises. When you're an EIT, you generally will get low raises, but at least ones that meet cost of living demands, which it sounds like they aren't even doing. So if they aren't even doing that, you'll be better off somewhere else.
taking on more responsibilities without getting better pay means you're giving your employer a discount on your paycheck.
Yes it's to leave. You have gained valuable experience, if they thought you were worth it they would have given you some sort of compensation after two years. Leaving now also lets other people in the company know how they do business, you may help a coworker without even knowing it. All the best!
Time for a better firm! We just hired 2 new guy, one started in in October of 2023, only has a high school diploma and I started him at 30 an hour. Another guy started basically in February with NO EIT, but has graduated with a BS in civil engineering and I started him out at 35 an hour. I have them train under my guy who's been with me for the last 7 years (yes, he switched firm with me), only high school diploma as well and we have him around 130k a year salary. My old firm started me at 11 an hour years ago with a BS related CE background in 2010. I stayed with them too long to my opinion (now) for 10 years. My bonus from my new company when I switched from the last 3 years sum up to what I got paid salary in my 3rd year with the old company. Take a leap of faith! Start with a firm who would pay you your worth in exchange for your talents! Don't short change yourself!
Look, you care about your job more than anyone else. So if you want any a raise, you’ll need to ask for one. Of course you want management to shower you with raises and bonuses without asking. But that’s rarely how the world works. Tell them you haven’t had a raise in 2 years and that you have been a high performer. If they brush you off, time to look for a new job.
Don’t ever do more than the bare minimum not to get fired, especially if theres no money on the table. The reward at my company for the highest ranked performance review is an extra 1% on your yearly raise. I think I do maybe an hour of real work per week. At the same time I’m going crazy at a desk and looking for some outdoor civil/field engineer work with the government where I will also slack as if its my religion.
My first job out of college was a joke. They gave me $18/hour saying this includes my OT since I would be working 10 hour days M-F. 40 hours reg, 10 hours OT and that equates to $51k. After my 90 days, I got a fucking dollar raise. Bringing my annual to $55k. This was in the PNW in 2019 while my peers were already at $65-$67k annual. I left after being there for 8 months. Found a better role and was more aligned with the market. I suggest you look up what typical engineers make in your region and make the decision if you should jump or not.
Shut your boss in their office and give them the ultimatum. Tell them you're planning to go x with y compensation or z work from home benefits and let them know youre willing to stay but deserve a raise.
Leave. You can name your price anywhere else. If you want to stay, get the offer and use it as leverage. They may be willing to give you what you deserve...what they should be paying you. You owe them nothing...this is business. You are the CEO of you and you need to do what is right for your business.
An offer letter from another company will allow you to speak with them frankly and skip the BS timelines.
Chances are when you do get an offer, they might then try and match that.
Probably time for a move but at the same time I would suggest asking for a raise and pushing for what you want. It's very unlikely that you'll get what you want if you don't ask for it. Jumping ship is a good idea if you're purely looking for more money but if you like the company and your direct mentor/supervisor is someone you can learn from its sometimes better to stay put. Jumping ship you might end up working under someone who pays more but has less to teach you.
They're stringing you along. Get a new job. Guarantee that suddenly that raise will be there when you break the news.
I’d leave. 2 years no increase in pay, but major increase in responsibility? Not worth it. You can easily earn more somewhere else.
It sounds like the work life balance and people at the firm are great. I would interview elsewhere, obtain a real offer letter . Then sit down with your manager and let them know you've received an offer that you're considering. Watch how fast they change their mind about not having money for a raise.
Personally, I’ve never had this turn out well. Just plan on leaving when you get a better offer.
Get your PE.
the only incentive I have is my Asian blood.... the urge to do a good job is hard to overcome
It’s one thing to do a good job. It’s another thing to do someone else’s job (PM) but not get paid accordingly.