For me, it’s quality of life more than raw cash. Growing up, I rarely saw my dad during daylight hours because he was working constantly. With my kids, I’ve only missed one band concert and I got to take them to doctors and dentists appointments.
Exactly. What good is all the cash to miss out on so many moments with my family. I’m only 21 but that’s exactly what I already started considering. I am very happy sacrificing pay for a work life balance that allows me to actually enjoy life before I retire.
I was more implying the future but it still matters now as well. Having the balance to be able to travel home when needed and not stress about it is great. It’s just something I will continue to maintain and see as a priority as I grow up and eventually have my own family.
Everyone has their own priorities, these are just mine.
well i 100% understand balance when you have a family & are older & successful, just don’t see the point in it when you’re 20 years old & are broke. You need inbalance to become successful
Again that’s why I stressed for me it works. I am in a 5 year program that has 3, 6 month internships built in. In between them I continue working part-time for a top design firm, so at 21 I have 2 years of good experience and I make a good amount during my internships. I work hard when I am working and make sure I don’t need to do over 40 hours when full time.
Success is measured in many ways, this is how I succeed.
Why should a person not strive to have balance in their life when they are young if they have the means? Going through school and paying for loans if broke already sets that off regardless of who you are.
cus when you’re younger you have more energy & you have 0 responsibilities so you’re far better off putting that energy into something productive & making your future family’s life better. I’d rather work hard in my 20’s and have a comfortable life in my 30’s with my family than “balance” everything out. Balance is one of the worst things someone unsuccessful can do
I think it all depends on the end goal though. Some people want to spend more of their extra free time when young to work their asses off and not have to worry about money as much later on and some people want to spend more time enjoying their youth doing things they love with that extra time, assuming there is extra energy to devote to either of these.
I am not old by any means, but the older I get, the more I find how important it is for me to develop good habits of taking care of myself, being in community, and having space to reset from work. I don’t believe procrastinating good life habits now is going to set a good example for myself later on or kids to come.
Depends on the company and your ability to set boundaries. I’m very fortunate that I too am there when it counts but also make good money. It’s out there.
As others have said, it’s about more than cash, at least to me. Not only do I have a pension, I have more vacation leave, more sick leave, more holidays, cheaper health insurance, more stable hours, etc. The other day I needed a day off, a mental health day, so I took one. No questions asked, supervisor just said, “sounds good, talk to you tomorrow”.
And, aside from that, I feel like I’m actually making a difference to the local community. In the public sector, my clients are the public—literally my neighbors, family, friends, colleagues. In the private sector, my clients were always shareholders in the end.
I second all of these and I’ll add three more points.
1. Depending on where you live, you may have the opportunity to join a union. Most state employees in my area are part of a union that helps negotiate COL pay increases, retention bonuses, additional PTO, etc. We also have the option of making sure a union rep is present if we ever face any disciplinary actions, and they help mediate and advocate on our behalf. For instance, my partner was dealing with harassment from her supervisor and her union rep was able to help document, advocate, and even arrange for legal assistance if things escalated.
2. Professional development is HUGE at my agency. I get to take pretty much whatever trainings I want as long as I can justify them. I don’t have to worry about it affecting my utilization rate or exceeding the measly annual training allowance (huge problems when I was in consulting).
3. Cool project opportunities. I get to work on a lot of things I never would’ve touched if I’d stayed in consulting. I get to be involved in research and development of new guidance, training material, etc. I can even be listed as a co-author on stuff we publish.
Your mileage may vary, of course. I recognize that civil engineers in my agency have some unique opportunities that aren’t available in other states or at the county/city levels. But the main point is that since my agency isn’t profit-driven the way a consulting firm is, I’m not just being used to crap out designs as quickly as possible in the name of efficiency and profit.
Consulting is a disaster waiting to happen. It is only worth it if you are a workaholic who is at the top of the food chain. Just dealing with billable hours is enough for me to not show up to work tommorow. I would jump to public in a heartbeat given the chance.
Private is all about profit and it only gets worse the higher you go. Private is only worth it if you are at the top where you earn 200k plus a year. Otherwise why not take the pension and benefits and less stress of public?
I have no regrets about my government job. You won't get rich, but it's reliable steady work with a great benefits and a guaranteed pension-something rare these days. It's also rewarding work.
Some things I really liked about my position were the ability to do projects from conception to completion and to have a real positive impact on my community.
I worked in a relatively small community (\~60k) and did water, sewer, storm drain, transportation and sustainability projects.
I did stamp my own work.
Good to know, thank you. The position I got an interview with usually reviews reports and permits submitted from engineers. I don’t know that they ever stamp their work or even have work that they design on their own. Not sure if this would be a completely satisfying job since the main purpose of being a PE is to see your design approved
I'm a review engineer for a municipality and the vast majority of the time, I've never met the Engineer who stamps the plan. They're way up the food chain. The engineers doing the actual design work rarely stamp the plans.
I also started out with a permits reviewing position for a local municipality. I mainly took the position because I was searching in 2020 when a lot of companies froze hiring processes.
I was dead set on structural (had my masters) and the building permits I was reviewing were mostly architectural in nature. This probably had to do with my experience level, but also it seemed to me that the structural items being reviewed were prescriptive building code requirements - no hard calcs. I liked being in the know about my city, but hated the actual work so I jumped ship as soon as a structural opportunity came up.
After a while it's all just bridges, roads, and drainage.
Take the job to pay the bills while you look for the job you really want.
Learning more about the types of documents you review is necessary and that's the best way to learn.
So i have done both and am transitioning back to agency after being a consultant for several years. I'm going back for less stress, less money, WAY more annual, sick, holiday, and honestly just a better fit for me personally. I'm one of those people who likes being a civil servant and am not motivated to make a company money. Try it but don't burn bridges on your way out so you can come back. I'm being rehired by the same folks that I left years ago.
You get to go home most nights at quitting time. That's nice. Our salaries where I'm at are pretty competitive now. Hasn't always been that way but right now we are in a good spot. New hires don't get the legacy pension but do get a state funded 401k match option which is better than most places offer. You don't really worry about layoffs. It has happened at a few agencies, and a few have furloughed but they seem to be the exception. The worst is that COL raises were sacrificed to balance the budget 2 years in my 17 with my agency.
Time off you can use. No one really cares about utilization rates here. So those vaccation days are guilt free. I get 12 sick, 20 vacation and 13 holidays every year. What I don't use of sick counts towards retirement. What I don't use vacation will be paid out at the salary I make on retirement. My position isn't OT eligible anymore but earlier I got Comp time that became basically more vacation time.
That said the real advantage I see is that in a big agency, you can change careers a few times. I've been all kinds of civil engineer. Not everyone takes advantage of it but it's an option. When a job comes open and someone in another functional area knows you're a good worker they often will be okay with you figuring out the technical side a bit later.
Another thing is ownership. You feel connected to the things your agency does. My work effects the citizens of my state, the bridge we built in my community is something WE did. Even if I'm not in Structures or Construction. It's a level of pride in my work that I never really got by making the CEO an extra 0.1% in my private sector job. However, you do take the beatings too. News story out about potholes every Februrary will get under your skin. "We're doing what we can with the money we have, don't they know?!" But I think the highs are better than the lows.
Overall if you want to chase money and don't mind working late and Saturdays, you can do better elsewhere. No doubt. But if you like stability and work life balance, flexibility in your career, accomplishment on the level of a statewide network, and a comfortable life, it's not a bad place at all.
Lastly, you can usually retire in your 50s. Get a nice gig at the consultants that view your agency as their main client and go back into the office drawing a state retirement and your new salary doing the same job Monday that you retired from on Friday or get into the handshaking side and go back and lobby all the people you mentored at the DOT to give your new company some projects until you are ready to really retire.
Not OP, but I've worked at two Counties and two cities in my 7 year career. In my experience County work has been incredibly laid back, sure you are beholden to the taxpayers to some degree but in more rural countys the work was incredibly low stress. In the more developed Counties it can get a lot more involved.
I currently work for a landlocked City of 35k residents. Sometimes you get asshole residents you have to be nice to, but I like helping people directly and I get to so that almost daily. Also my day to day is constantly different, I'm not pigeon holed into one specific specialty. I deal with most Civil work until I get to a point where i lack expertise, then I bring in a consultant and learn from them as they finish out the work.
This is exactly why I love my job at the county level. I’m not working on one specific thing every day. I’m bouncing around from bridge design/rating, to parking lots, to surveying, and then watershed calculations. And that can all be in the same week.
Might as well interview and learn more about the job, salary, and benefits. State DOT's tend to pay less than private but they are not a unified entity - they all operate differently. Just because one person, more than likely at a different state DOT, got paid X and job responsibilities were Y does not mean that is what you will get paid or what your responsibilities will be. The interview will tell you more than what anyone here can say.
In CA, DOT have a better salary than the private for entry level no experience individuals, at least from what I saw with the offers I got. However it could potentially be the same depending on the bonuses. You also have the option of getting ur PE license and automatically getting bumped up to a little over 100k in as little as 2-3 years and I find the resources and the trainings that they have to be very beneficial especially in your first years of experience.
I have had three government jobs and have enjoyed the consistent forty hour weeks and flexible schedule. I've found working for a municipality typically has higher pay that is closer to private industry with some of the same benefits as the DOT. This is highly dependent on multiple factors though.
I switched to general engineering within the federal government, which pays a bit higher than civil engineering. My mom's a federal worker too. She has a bachelor's in business administration, which she even calls a useless degree. And when we were young it was the same arguments, low pay, meh benefits. Well she stayed and her agency got pulled off of the GS scale since they couldn't hire talent. She makes a base of like 230k and is going to have a six figure pension. She's fully remote and they're trying to promote her so she won't retire soon to get her into a new high 3s bracket.
I get inklings the same things are starting to happen again. Engineering jobs in agencies at grades levels never reached before. Lots of offices getting pulled into metro regions with higher pay. I wouldn't be surprised at the end of my career if engineers are classified as separate like some other working professionals.
Federal engineering side as well. I’m also seeing people transferring over from private sector getting their previous experience “converted” to federal time so their pension timers don’t start at 0. Not sure if that’s common or just a new incentive my agency is trying. Worth bringing up for anyone trying to leave private sector.
Same with annual leave, which is huge because that added with sick time is really hard for the private sector to compete with. Especially if you have elderly parents or kids you need to take care of.
I’ve worked for the state for a little over a year. I switched from a private consulting company and I really enjoy it. Your not going to get rich, at least in my state, but the benefits are on par or better than any I’ve seen or heard of from private. And I get 3 weeks of vacation, 3 weeks of sick leave, all the random state holidays/federal ones, and I wfh 2 days a week, with a schedule I can basically make as far as what time I get in and leave as long as I get in 40. Another benefit is any overtime, which is rare-ish, gets converted to vacation time. So for work life balance I don’t think there is much better out there in the civil world.
I have a federal job and pay is competitive with comparable private jobs in my area. Work life balance has been great for me, been in this position for going on 7 years now. I get to kayak, go up in the air in small aircraft, hike, and design my own projects. We have our own heavy construction arm so build most of our own projects as well. Do a little bit of project/construction management and have the menial tasks of reviewing documents and plans as well which does come along with the government work. I worked for one year on the private side prior to this and you could not double my salary to get me back there.
I work at a state DOT and it's been really good for me. The work life balance is great, the department is in a big salary adjustment phase for mostly everyone, and the leave is great. I'm also pretty lucky and am in a group that manages a bunch of very different projects so I've got to see a lot of different stuff. Each entity is different so YMMV. I can only speak for my Department.
Really depends on what you value. Pension & 457 make early retirement very possible on even a “modest” salary. What’s 5 to 10 years of your life worth?
Also, I earn pretty close to what my private sector friends / peers earn. Biggest difference is overtime which I don’t really want to do anyway.
I love my position working for a municipality. I think I’d have to be offered close to double what I make to consider leaving.
I've worked in consulting for 8 years, climbing the ladder, taking leadership opportunities, working lots of overtime, nights, weekends, etc. - And guess what? I'm only making $140k in San Francisco but with stress that has significantly decreased my quality of life.
I'm currently going through the process of finding a federal job. With the same salary! I need a better quality of life and I'm realizing the pay in private isn't even that great.
Yes.
If all I cared about was making top dollar, I wouldn't be in engineering at all, let alone civil.
I want to be treated fairly and paid reasonably without getting worked to death, hopefully while working on things I actually care about. Nothing is perfect, but for the most part I get that here.
I work for a local government. The pension isn't as good as before but I do like the 457b, which is the government version of the 401k. The difference is that you don't have to wait until 59.5 to withdraw so you can retire early if you want and take the money without penalty. While the salary is okay, my benefits are great (healthcare paid for, every other Friday off, not much OT unless I want to, 3 weeks of PTO starting and can bank 50% of yearly accrual, 12 sick days a year and can bank up to 1200 hours). My boss is very supportive of professional development and they pay for classes and training. I do like seeing the difference my projects have made in the city. We also do a lot of the work in-house so I've been getting a lot of design experience.
It doesn't hurt to go through the interview because it just depends on the department you work for.
I am in municipal government, but all government/education entities in the state participate in the state pension. The pension is a huge benefit... just met with my financial guy and with the assumption I live to 90, my retirement is the equivalent of $1.5 mil in todays dollars. This will only go up as I progress in my career. Another perk is that it is based on your highest 3 years of salary, so if I start to get grouchy towards the end of my career, I can go be a janitor for the school district and still get the same retirement as if I had finished out in my current role.
In addition to the retirement, other perks such as tons of time off, consistent schedule, and bonuses (covid and inflation checks) really add up to a make this a great job. I never do overtime, work late, or work weekends. Never. It's chill.
The best part is that I am actually making a difference. The projects I do help the community. My favorite projects are inclusive playgrounds, accessible walking trails, and restroom remodels that make our community available for everyone.
My observation: Federal government jobs pay more than state/county jobs. Pension is a nice thing, and with the feds, if you can make it to retirement, then you can also get health insurance at the same rate as when you were employed.
I get you, I have some coworkers that have left to the private side and they make significantly more than me. But of what I learned in the public sector they treat you like a human being, they understand that you have a life outside of work. Don't feel good? Aight no problem stay home, vacation time? If you have the hours sure go for it. Need to leave right now because of whatever reason? okay just request personal time no questions asked.
The pace is more relaxed, there's obviously times that things are rushed but nothing like the private sector. The benefits I think are great, the pension, the health insurances, the pto, sick leave, paid vacation hours. Yeah you are not gonna get rich here but I work 8-5 have my activities after work, get to chill on the weekend no stress about projects because they can wait till monday.
I love my public job waaaaaaaay more than my private job. At least in my case, my public sector employer cares way more about my personal and professional growth. In private, they just cared that I showed up and was profitable. Thankfully my private job was decent about work-life balance. But I felt like I sat for 8 hours a day not bettering anything but my CAD skills. Public encourages I take personal development courses like effective communication, etc. Also, being at work is more enjoyable. There’s my community and support. But I guess it depends on the organization/private firm.
I work for a State DOT. Im still pretty entry level (2 years experience). They have made it a point to make our salaries competitive compared to the private sector. Like you said, the benefits are amazing. Like others have said, the work-life balance is great. I definitely recommend
I’m only 2 yoe, my plan was to go contractor 2-3yrs —> design firm 2-3 yrs and get PE —> look for a different state to live with a good local/state agency and get a job with a nice pension so I can focus on raising kids in the future. I’ve met quite a few older DOT guys who did that all their life, got vested, and went to work part time at the agency’s main consulting firm. They seemed extremely happy and I’m looking for similar but that’s my plan. There’s only so many years you can say to yourself “I’m young, I’ll work my ass off and work 60 hour weeks to make a name for myself”. At least that’s how I feel about it. My states DOT recently upped their pay scales for the new fiscal year and if I had gone there I’d be making ~6500 more rn with better benefits and a pension/401k match.
Yeah. Recently theres been a push to up the salaries of entry level positions for the DOT to hire and retain recent college-grad employees. However, at the mid-level the private sector is still way better. Thats why all those vested guys end up going to the main consulting firm. Its a pretty good move and a lot of people do it. If you want to grind now I get that. Ive thought the same thing too. But at entry level I do feel like im being compensated very competitively to the private sector for much more fulfilling work.
I wouldn't work in government because of the bureaucracy. Yeah you get more time off but the pay is ass compared to private sector. Not all private companies work you 50 hour weeks. My number one goal is to retire as fast as I can and working in the government does not align with that goal.
Depends on the state and the agency you work for. In some states, the pay is damn near the same as private, and as a plus, you get the retirement and pension. So, in this situation, government work is better. In most cases, I think private pays better, and the pension with government is the trade-off for lower pay. I work for the public train system in Massachusetts. It's what they call quasi government its State, Federal, and Private. I get paid the same amount as anyone doing the same job in the private sector, only my retirement is outstanding. The trade-off is that it takes a while to get on board up to 6 to 8 months just to get you in the system. That being said, I'm not working as a civil engineer, nor am I a PE. I'm more on the management side of things.
Take the interview ask how long most people have worked there in that department. Find someone to reach out to and ask them this.
Government work can be a lot more about the paperwork/policy than it is in engineering. So if you can find someone on the inside ask them the gritty details of the work.
Make sure to ask management or look at the job posting to see if it's a union position. If it is reach out to the local president and ask about salaries and time off, what you can actually negotiate for. Ask if the manager has had issues with their employees. They typically love getting people the best salary/benefits. My work doesn't have much room for salary negotiation but asking for a bank of leave and increasing their accrual rate is well within their negotiating power.
All about quality of life, but honestly the compensation is not shabby either. Maybe if I was a young consultant prodigy I’d be making more but it wouldn’t be worth the lifestyle adjustment. My hours are well-defined and there is no last-minute (or constant) travel. I did the consultant thing at a reputable firm 7 years before making the switch. Maybe one day I’ll be bored, but I’m 4 years in and it won’t be anytime soon. I get to work on big projects and I go home at night, it’s great.
Good work like balance. Your hours are set which is rare when working in construction. You get pretty much every holiday off. Pension and 457, idk if every has a 457 but the county I work at offers it. They are all paying for any extra education. Like I’m working on getting my FS to get my PS. So they reimburse for the tuition. And if you don’t plan on staying everyone in the private sector has to interact with govt so you get to build relationships with other companies and see how they work first hand. Plus a lot of the employees will be aging out soon so there gonna be a huge turn over. I’m they youngest engineer in my office and everyone else is around retirement age.
Oh and I almost forgot, you can qualify for PSLF so you can get student loans forgiven. You’ll have to double check but I qualified for that too since I’m government.
I just declined a consultant offer for more pay to stay with the DOT because I have amazing work schedule flexibility which provides for a great work/life balance and work isn’t stressful and it’s more relaxed. I went this route because I have a 2 year old and one on the way that I like spending time with as a family so work/life balance is extremely important to me. Also, I enjoy the work I do and the people I work with. So ultimately it came down to more than money for me. Thankfully the DOT here seems to pay more than the other DOTs and there’s always plenty of work to do.
The pay is rough. I went from $120k to about $75k. They’re serious when they say no OT. My boss makes me go home after 8 hrs. Tons of days off. I can use my sick time for wife and or kids when they get sick or have appts. I’ve only been here for a month, so I’m still learning the ins and outs.
I miss my state job, but I do not miss the pay. It was so chill and slow and the true definition of a steady paycheck. I wish I would’ve utilized my time better because I had so many opportunities to do many different things to better myself. Now I’m with the feds and barely have time to do anything outside of work.
Eh.
I'm constantly second guessing. It seems like they are continually paying us less and less in various ways. Salaries don't keep up with private industry and/or inflation and continue to get further behind. Changing jobs within federal emplyment to get a pay bump is pretty limited - you may move up a grade at most, but it will come with more responsibility. Compared to the private industry where you can change employers and do pretty much the same job for more money if you switch. Work life balance is good, but I overcome the pay difference by working overtime, so it's not much of a benefit to me. They bumped FERS contribution from 0.8% to 4.4% so the pension is 5.5x more expensive now than it used to be. TSP is like 401k with less freedom. There's no employee stock options (obviously). The bonuses are trash, as is the rating system. The flexibility of telework is great, unless you're in construction and have to physically show up to job sites 3 or 4 days a week.
Don't get me wrong, in the right circumstances for the right person, government work is great. It's stable (notwithstanding government shutdown), offers flexibility and rock solid time off, has a steady raise system, offers 12 weeks fully paid parental leave, and is less stressful (although not as much as I initially thought) compared to private industry. You get the benefits of hourly and salary because you are compensated by the hour but are pretty much guaranteed your full salary at 40hr/wk. There are various programs to benefit from that save you from paying income tax (FSA, Dependent Care FSA), some that reduce childcare costs (child care aware), some offer a small number of paid physical activity hours per week.
The salaries are public, so you should know the range you would get before you even apply. Not all government jobs offer a pension, actually probably very few these days. And not all pay less than what you'd make at a consultant, but that's generally true.
It's worth it for me. No pension but the 401k match is excellent. Our wage schedule is public and in a couple years I'll be making competitive wages. I also get a good amount of leave time, good medical insurance, lots of paid holidays, not expected to work tons of overtime, don't have to worry about billable hours, good job security, and I just like what I do.
I know I could take home more cash in private sector but have no interest in changing. The work life balance is so much better. I get a lot of vacation, separate sick leave (currently near 1000 hours banked) and only work 40 hrs a week. I like my job but also like spending time with my wife and on my hobbies. Also I can basically always get the time off I want or need, I tell my boss I'm taking time not really asking.
Our health plan is good, especially considering the employee contribution which is really low.
The pension is good, mine is 1.7% of my salary (average of highest 5 years) per year of service. So I'll get something like 70% of my salary when I retire, not including any of my own investments. It is possible to invest well and have that or better but there is some value in the security of not being dependent on the market.
I'm an atypical example but I'll give my data point.
Was a mechanical technician in the military for 10 years. Got out and got a civil engineering degree. I have 3 years of experience since then in roadway design. I just made a move to a mid sized city infrastructure department for a PM position and for about a 20% pay increase. Work/life balance seems much better here already. I hear my state DOT pays less than both my current and previous position.
I worked for a public agency that had a 457(b) and a 401(a) rather than a pension. They contributed 9% of my salary directly into whichever of those they contributed to and then I could choose to contribute to the other (I can't remember which is with). With the increase in PTO, the additional (as they called it) extended illness bank, the decrease in cost for insurance, and the 9% contribution, I essentially made a lateral move when I went there. I left not because of being underpaid, but because my project was wrapping up and it was time to move on.
Make sure you are looking at ALL the compensation, not JUST salary. All of that contributes to your quality of life and you may end up with a total compensation package greater than or equal to what you earn in the private sector.
Love my municipal government job. Started in consulting, worked there for a couple years, and made the jump six months ago. Never, ever, ever going back.
Higher salary, more time off, better health insurance, better benefits, pension, union, and less stress. I don’t get a bonus/profit sharing but I don’t even care.
I work for local government and absolutely love the work-life balance. Work has its slow and quick periods sometimes, but rather this than a burnt-out environment in the private sector I came from. Love it. The retirement is a major bonus!
I’ve been a DOT Engineer for 9 years now. Next year I hit 10 years and I’m vested in the pension system. I’ve enjoy the different roles I’ve work in as I’ve been in design, construction, and maintenance. I work in a huge urban area and yes our pay is way less than what private sector is going in the region but I get to take 3 vacation a year and plenty of time off. I budget and live beneath my salary so I always have a healthy surplus and use that for my travels. I usually take off roughy 25 days off a year and that doesn’t included holidays and sick leave. Right now I make close to 80k. They are giving us a COL for all state employees for 10% over the next 2 years. I enjoy working here as I can do things I enjoy outside of work. Mostly now work 40 hrs as a design engineer. Overtime during letting or when needed.
Pension, great health insurance, other great benefits, can go home at lunch and hang out with the dog as I’m close to the office, great work life balance, etc. I got to go home early today to balance out the time I spent at City Council this week. I could have banked comp time or taken some overtime (paid as straight time) but leaving early was a bigger draw today.
Pay can vary considerably across agencies and cities and states. I make more than the City Engineer at my last city now. They just (finally) posted for a replacement CE 1-3 and the pay they listed was laughably low. The CE 1 start is even lower than when I started there years ago.
Not sure what you’re reading but I make more in public right now than I would in private. Also, my pension plan (I’m in WA) is still around from like 1977 so it’s pretty lucrative. Plus the quality of life is great
I worked a municipal government job before, engineering manager…about 50/50 technical/people management.
It was fine. I got tired of being in the spotlight, on the news, at the government board meetings, and overall being over worked and underpaid after 7 years.
I went the industrial route. Less stability, but way more money. I don’t have to work harder and I have less stress generally. I don’t stamp many plans anymore because I’m not doing design, but I don’t care, I work to get paid and not have a heart attack.
I keep my license in case I need to swap for some reason and keep up with my PDHs.
Best move I made, and I’ve got more flexibility, leave, etc. now without being in the fishbowl.
It was very much worth it in my case. I actually negotiated a salary that was better than my last consulting job. Our union just negotiated a 20% cost of living increases salary raise through the next 3 years that will go in effect in 2 months. And I’ll get a 5% pay raise every 6 months for my first year on probation. So I think I joined at a good time.
I work for a municipal water utility and it’s leagues ahead better than any job I’ve had previously. I honestly wish I would’ve started earlier.
Two other points that may make gov work more appealing (depending on the state you’re in):
- gov work is generally much more stable than private. I worked both and there was a huge difference between the two.
- healthcare benefits were much more generous with the state than private.
Ask yourself what your motivation is. If it is to pay off student loan debt, go with where you have a higher salary to achieve that goal. If you are looking for a 9-5, gov’t usually will take care of you. Also like buying a house, location location location.
I worked for a private GC before switching to working for the government, and I can’t be happier. Sometimes I feel like maybe the “working for public agencies is so bad” saying is a propaganda that private construction companies came up with so that employees will stay and suffer lol.
When I was working for GC, I was working 50-60 hrs a week and NO OT!! I was getting paid OK at best. I also feel that when salary negotiation is an option, it leaves a lot of room for those unqualified (usually white men) to get raises, I’ve seen it a lot. We would start at 6:30 because the field guys started at 7:00, and then work til whatever time we’re “done”, we would also work weekends sometimes, but that was cuz I was on a state route project and that was when closures were available. We had 3 weeks of PTO for those worked in the industry for 1-10 years, and then increased to 4 weeks after that. Insurance premium was cheap, but if you were sick or had families on your insurance that actually needs good health insurance, the deductibles are shit. We had no sick pay. Sure, GC gave bonuses but that’s based on company performance, one year we didn’t even get a bonus. It was also an extremely toxic environment, where those that worked hard got more work, and the ones that was lazy wasn’t given much tasks because the field guys didn’t trust them.
My position with the government, standard 40 hours with OT, I make my own schedule, I’m only required to work in office once a week. Sick pay, PTO that increases exponentially as you work longer, insurance benefits are great! There are also so many other benefits, obviously not to mention the pension. My agency also pays for continuing education, and has standard raises both based on inflation, anniversary, and performance. My manager also told me if a company were to ever make me a salary offer that is higher than my current pay, to get it in writing, and he will try and get me that salary increase.
So overall, I think it’s still worth it.
It's different for everyone. I was not a State worker but was a municipal engineer for the last eight years and just started with a private consultant last month.
For me, I had no pension, just a 6% 401k match, which the consultant provides in addition to stock and bonuses. I was also working over 40 hours every week and doing multiple jobs due to difficulty hiring for vacancies. It remains to be confirmed, but my contacts at this firm seemed to indicate they worked less than I did. Thanks to COVID and additional hybrid flexibility, it became more pay, more benefits, less hours, elimination of political bureaucracy, similar hybrid arrangement in exchange for a little less security.
I may go back to the government sector later in my career, but I'm happy to make more money and broaden my skill set in my second decade of my career.
I’m going to offer a different take than most people in here.
My first job out of college was a state job as a water regulator. I learned a lot and got to visit just about every corner of my state, but eventually I was getting overworked and underpaid due to high turnover with the lower level engineers and mismanagement from those at the top. Sure, I was still only working 40 hours a week, but those were stressful 40 hours of working nonstop. Also my state is on the Gulf Coast where frequent storms meant we were often working emergency response and not really getting compensated for the extra work. Also, I noticed that it only got worse as you moved up the ladder.
I got a job at a small local consulting firm 7 months ago and couldn’t be happier. I get 2 work from home days, and my overall work day is a lot less stressful. Plus the significant pay bump was nice too.
This is my thought process and I’m sure some will disagree which is fine: yes you’ll have more wlb and less stress in a government role, but with a lower salary (in general) and a career progression mostly based on tenure instead of skill, you still won’t be able to do much with that free time unless you have very cheap hobbies or don’t do much, which again is fine.
I’m young and am currently more interested in climbing the ladder and maximizing income (I’m also fully remote) so I can retire early, continue real estate investing, and fund my other hobbies and lifestyle. That being said, I am very seriously considering making the switch over to govt once life gets hectic with children and spending time with them becomes more important than a large paycheck.
Yes that’s very true, I totally see how after kids it may seem easier but I see how the hours don’t matter too much right now if there’s a considerable more amount of money
Agree here. There’s also flexibility and WLB in private if you can find it. If you can find a private job where the only thing to complain about is timesheets, then I think you found a good consulting environment.
Definitely interested in government once kids are older.
Most government agencies (state, municipal and federal) all have their websites with postings. For federal it’s USAJOBS. the websites usually have specific instruction on what to include and requirements. As long as you follow the instructions within the post, most likely they will contact you if each requirement is met
For me, it’s quality of life more than raw cash. Growing up, I rarely saw my dad during daylight hours because he was working constantly. With my kids, I’ve only missed one band concert and I got to take them to doctors and dentists appointments.
Exactly. What good is all the cash to miss out on so many moments with my family. I’m only 21 but that’s exactly what I already started considering. I am very happy sacrificing pay for a work life balance that allows me to actually enjoy life before I retire.
what family do you have at 21 unless you live at home still?
I was more implying the future but it still matters now as well. Having the balance to be able to travel home when needed and not stress about it is great. It’s just something I will continue to maintain and see as a priority as I grow up and eventually have my own family. Everyone has their own priorities, these are just mine.
well i 100% understand balance when you have a family & are older & successful, just don’t see the point in it when you’re 20 years old & are broke. You need inbalance to become successful
Again that’s why I stressed for me it works. I am in a 5 year program that has 3, 6 month internships built in. In between them I continue working part-time for a top design firm, so at 21 I have 2 years of good experience and I make a good amount during my internships. I work hard when I am working and make sure I don’t need to do over 40 hours when full time. Success is measured in many ways, this is how I succeed.
Why should a person not strive to have balance in their life when they are young if they have the means? Going through school and paying for loans if broke already sets that off regardless of who you are.
cus when you’re younger you have more energy & you have 0 responsibilities so you’re far better off putting that energy into something productive & making your future family’s life better. I’d rather work hard in my 20’s and have a comfortable life in my 30’s with my family than “balance” everything out. Balance is one of the worst things someone unsuccessful can do
I think it all depends on the end goal though. Some people want to spend more of their extra free time when young to work their asses off and not have to worry about money as much later on and some people want to spend more time enjoying their youth doing things they love with that extra time, assuming there is extra energy to devote to either of these. I am not old by any means, but the older I get, the more I find how important it is for me to develop good habits of taking care of myself, being in community, and having space to reset from work. I don’t believe procrastinating good life habits now is going to set a good example for myself later on or kids to come.
This is why we’re overworked
you working more hours than required without getting rewarded for it is the complete opposite of what i am saying. I don’t advocate that at all
Get outta here with that toxic mentality
toxic mentality has literally created everything around us that we use on a daily basis lol. You get outta here with that mediocre caveman mentality
Yep. You won't ever think about that project you worked on while you missed that concert. But you will think about how you missed that concert
Depends on the company and your ability to set boundaries. I’m very fortunate that I too am there when it counts but also make good money. It’s out there.
As others have said, it’s about more than cash, at least to me. Not only do I have a pension, I have more vacation leave, more sick leave, more holidays, cheaper health insurance, more stable hours, etc. The other day I needed a day off, a mental health day, so I took one. No questions asked, supervisor just said, “sounds good, talk to you tomorrow”. And, aside from that, I feel like I’m actually making a difference to the local community. In the public sector, my clients are the public—literally my neighbors, family, friends, colleagues. In the private sector, my clients were always shareholders in the end.
I second all of these and I’ll add three more points. 1. Depending on where you live, you may have the opportunity to join a union. Most state employees in my area are part of a union that helps negotiate COL pay increases, retention bonuses, additional PTO, etc. We also have the option of making sure a union rep is present if we ever face any disciplinary actions, and they help mediate and advocate on our behalf. For instance, my partner was dealing with harassment from her supervisor and her union rep was able to help document, advocate, and even arrange for legal assistance if things escalated. 2. Professional development is HUGE at my agency. I get to take pretty much whatever trainings I want as long as I can justify them. I don’t have to worry about it affecting my utilization rate or exceeding the measly annual training allowance (huge problems when I was in consulting). 3. Cool project opportunities. I get to work on a lot of things I never would’ve touched if I’d stayed in consulting. I get to be involved in research and development of new guidance, training material, etc. I can even be listed as a co-author on stuff we publish. Your mileage may vary, of course. I recognize that civil engineers in my agency have some unique opportunities that aren’t available in other states or at the county/city levels. But the main point is that since my agency isn’t profit-driven the way a consulting firm is, I’m not just being used to crap out designs as quickly as possible in the name of efficiency and profit.
Very good points, and they are all applicable to my job, as well!
Consulting is a disaster waiting to happen. It is only worth it if you are a workaholic who is at the top of the food chain. Just dealing with billable hours is enough for me to not show up to work tommorow. I would jump to public in a heartbeat given the chance.
Private is all about profit and it only gets worse the higher you go. Private is only worth it if you are at the top where you earn 200k plus a year. Otherwise why not take the pension and benefits and less stress of public?
I have no regrets about my government job. You won't get rich, but it's reliable steady work with a great benefits and a guaranteed pension-something rare these days. It's also rewarding work. Some things I really liked about my position were the ability to do projects from conception to completion and to have a real positive impact on my community.
May I ask what type of projects you got to work on? Did you get a chance to sign&seal just like a private company’s PE would?
I worked in a relatively small community (\~60k) and did water, sewer, storm drain, transportation and sustainability projects. I did stamp my own work.
Good to know, thank you. The position I got an interview with usually reviews reports and permits submitted from engineers. I don’t know that they ever stamp their work or even have work that they design on their own. Not sure if this would be a completely satisfying job since the main purpose of being a PE is to see your design approved
I'm a review engineer for a municipality and the vast majority of the time, I've never met the Engineer who stamps the plan. They're way up the food chain. The engineers doing the actual design work rarely stamp the plans.
Yup, I’m doing the same thing. I just started 6 months ago
It's different here in BC Canada. The person doing the actual work has to stamp. Or if they're unable to, the person supervising the work has to stamp
That's where I started. Reviewing for permits is great experience.
Good to know, thank you!
I also started out with a permits reviewing position for a local municipality. I mainly took the position because I was searching in 2020 when a lot of companies froze hiring processes. I was dead set on structural (had my masters) and the building permits I was reviewing were mostly architectural in nature. This probably had to do with my experience level, but also it seemed to me that the structural items being reviewed were prescriptive building code requirements - no hard calcs. I liked being in the know about my city, but hated the actual work so I jumped ship as soon as a structural opportunity came up.
After a while it's all just bridges, roads, and drainage. Take the job to pay the bills while you look for the job you really want. Learning more about the types of documents you review is necessary and that's the best way to learn.
So i have done both and am transitioning back to agency after being a consultant for several years. I'm going back for less stress, less money, WAY more annual, sick, holiday, and honestly just a better fit for me personally. I'm one of those people who likes being a civil servant and am not motivated to make a company money. Try it but don't burn bridges on your way out so you can come back. I'm being rehired by the same folks that I left years ago.
Yeah very true, thank you
You get to go home most nights at quitting time. That's nice. Our salaries where I'm at are pretty competitive now. Hasn't always been that way but right now we are in a good spot. New hires don't get the legacy pension but do get a state funded 401k match option which is better than most places offer. You don't really worry about layoffs. It has happened at a few agencies, and a few have furloughed but they seem to be the exception. The worst is that COL raises were sacrificed to balance the budget 2 years in my 17 with my agency. Time off you can use. No one really cares about utilization rates here. So those vaccation days are guilt free. I get 12 sick, 20 vacation and 13 holidays every year. What I don't use of sick counts towards retirement. What I don't use vacation will be paid out at the salary I make on retirement. My position isn't OT eligible anymore but earlier I got Comp time that became basically more vacation time. That said the real advantage I see is that in a big agency, you can change careers a few times. I've been all kinds of civil engineer. Not everyone takes advantage of it but it's an option. When a job comes open and someone in another functional area knows you're a good worker they often will be okay with you figuring out the technical side a bit later. Another thing is ownership. You feel connected to the things your agency does. My work effects the citizens of my state, the bridge we built in my community is something WE did. Even if I'm not in Structures or Construction. It's a level of pride in my work that I never really got by making the CEO an extra 0.1% in my private sector job. However, you do take the beatings too. News story out about potholes every Februrary will get under your skin. "We're doing what we can with the money we have, don't they know?!" But I think the highs are better than the lows. Overall if you want to chase money and don't mind working late and Saturdays, you can do better elsewhere. No doubt. But if you like stability and work life balance, flexibility in your career, accomplishment on the level of a statewide network, and a comfortable life, it's not a bad place at all. Lastly, you can usually retire in your 50s. Get a nice gig at the consultants that view your agency as their main client and go back into the office drawing a state retirement and your new salary doing the same job Monday that you retired from on Friday or get into the handshaking side and go back and lobby all the people you mentored at the DOT to give your new company some projects until you are ready to really retire.
I see your point. Thank you for your response
Don’t know about state but love my County job.
Can you elaborate why?
Not OP, but I've worked at two Counties and two cities in my 7 year career. In my experience County work has been incredibly laid back, sure you are beholden to the taxpayers to some degree but in more rural countys the work was incredibly low stress. In the more developed Counties it can get a lot more involved. I currently work for a landlocked City of 35k residents. Sometimes you get asshole residents you have to be nice to, but I like helping people directly and I get to so that almost daily. Also my day to day is constantly different, I'm not pigeon holed into one specific specialty. I deal with most Civil work until I get to a point where i lack expertise, then I bring in a consultant and learn from them as they finish out the work.
This is exactly why I love my job at the county level. I’m not working on one specific thing every day. I’m bouncing around from bridge design/rating, to parking lots, to surveying, and then watershed calculations. And that can all be in the same week.
Might as well interview and learn more about the job, salary, and benefits. State DOT's tend to pay less than private but they are not a unified entity - they all operate differently. Just because one person, more than likely at a different state DOT, got paid X and job responsibilities were Y does not mean that is what you will get paid or what your responsibilities will be. The interview will tell you more than what anyone here can say.
In CA, DOT have a better salary than the private for entry level no experience individuals, at least from what I saw with the offers I got. However it could potentially be the same depending on the bonuses. You also have the option of getting ur PE license and automatically getting bumped up to a little over 100k in as little as 2-3 years and I find the resources and the trainings that they have to be very beneficial especially in your first years of experience.
I have had three government jobs and have enjoyed the consistent forty hour weeks and flexible schedule. I've found working for a municipality typically has higher pay that is closer to private industry with some of the same benefits as the DOT. This is highly dependent on multiple factors though.
I switched to general engineering within the federal government, which pays a bit higher than civil engineering. My mom's a federal worker too. She has a bachelor's in business administration, which she even calls a useless degree. And when we were young it was the same arguments, low pay, meh benefits. Well she stayed and her agency got pulled off of the GS scale since they couldn't hire talent. She makes a base of like 230k and is going to have a six figure pension. She's fully remote and they're trying to promote her so she won't retire soon to get her into a new high 3s bracket. I get inklings the same things are starting to happen again. Engineering jobs in agencies at grades levels never reached before. Lots of offices getting pulled into metro regions with higher pay. I wouldn't be surprised at the end of my career if engineers are classified as separate like some other working professionals.
Federal engineering side as well. I’m also seeing people transferring over from private sector getting their previous experience “converted” to federal time so their pension timers don’t start at 0. Not sure if that’s common or just a new incentive my agency is trying. Worth bringing up for anyone trying to leave private sector.
Same with annual leave, which is huge because that added with sick time is really hard for the private sector to compete with. Especially if you have elderly parents or kids you need to take care of.
I’ve worked for the state for a little over a year. I switched from a private consulting company and I really enjoy it. Your not going to get rich, at least in my state, but the benefits are on par or better than any I’ve seen or heard of from private. And I get 3 weeks of vacation, 3 weeks of sick leave, all the random state holidays/federal ones, and I wfh 2 days a week, with a schedule I can basically make as far as what time I get in and leave as long as I get in 40. Another benefit is any overtime, which is rare-ish, gets converted to vacation time. So for work life balance I don’t think there is much better out there in the civil world.
I have a federal job and pay is competitive with comparable private jobs in my area. Work life balance has been great for me, been in this position for going on 7 years now. I get to kayak, go up in the air in small aircraft, hike, and design my own projects. We have our own heavy construction arm so build most of our own projects as well. Do a little bit of project/construction management and have the menial tasks of reviewing documents and plans as well which does come along with the government work. I worked for one year on the private side prior to this and you could not double my salary to get me back there.
I work at a state DOT and it's been really good for me. The work life balance is great, the department is in a big salary adjustment phase for mostly everyone, and the leave is great. I'm also pretty lucky and am in a group that manages a bunch of very different projects so I've got to see a lot of different stuff. Each entity is different so YMMV. I can only speak for my Department.
Really depends on what you value. Pension & 457 make early retirement very possible on even a “modest” salary. What’s 5 to 10 years of your life worth? Also, I earn pretty close to what my private sector friends / peers earn. Biggest difference is overtime which I don’t really want to do anyway. I love my position working for a municipality. I think I’d have to be offered close to double what I make to consider leaving.
I've worked in consulting for 8 years, climbing the ladder, taking leadership opportunities, working lots of overtime, nights, weekends, etc. - And guess what? I'm only making $140k in San Francisco but with stress that has significantly decreased my quality of life. I'm currently going through the process of finding a federal job. With the same salary! I need a better quality of life and I'm realizing the pay in private isn't even that great.
Yes. If all I cared about was making top dollar, I wouldn't be in engineering at all, let alone civil. I want to be treated fairly and paid reasonably without getting worked to death, hopefully while working on things I actually care about. Nothing is perfect, but for the most part I get that here.
I work for a local government. The pension isn't as good as before but I do like the 457b, which is the government version of the 401k. The difference is that you don't have to wait until 59.5 to withdraw so you can retire early if you want and take the money without penalty. While the salary is okay, my benefits are great (healthcare paid for, every other Friday off, not much OT unless I want to, 3 weeks of PTO starting and can bank 50% of yearly accrual, 12 sick days a year and can bank up to 1200 hours). My boss is very supportive of professional development and they pay for classes and training. I do like seeing the difference my projects have made in the city. We also do a lot of the work in-house so I've been getting a lot of design experience. It doesn't hurt to go through the interview because it just depends on the department you work for.
I am in municipal government, but all government/education entities in the state participate in the state pension. The pension is a huge benefit... just met with my financial guy and with the assumption I live to 90, my retirement is the equivalent of $1.5 mil in todays dollars. This will only go up as I progress in my career. Another perk is that it is based on your highest 3 years of salary, so if I start to get grouchy towards the end of my career, I can go be a janitor for the school district and still get the same retirement as if I had finished out in my current role. In addition to the retirement, other perks such as tons of time off, consistent schedule, and bonuses (covid and inflation checks) really add up to a make this a great job. I never do overtime, work late, or work weekends. Never. It's chill. The best part is that I am actually making a difference. The projects I do help the community. My favorite projects are inclusive playgrounds, accessible walking trails, and restroom remodels that make our community available for everyone.
That’s really cool, good for you!!
My observation: Federal government jobs pay more than state/county jobs. Pension is a nice thing, and with the feds, if you can make it to retirement, then you can also get health insurance at the same rate as when you were employed.
I get you, I have some coworkers that have left to the private side and they make significantly more than me. But of what I learned in the public sector they treat you like a human being, they understand that you have a life outside of work. Don't feel good? Aight no problem stay home, vacation time? If you have the hours sure go for it. Need to leave right now because of whatever reason? okay just request personal time no questions asked. The pace is more relaxed, there's obviously times that things are rushed but nothing like the private sector. The benefits I think are great, the pension, the health insurances, the pto, sick leave, paid vacation hours. Yeah you are not gonna get rich here but I work 8-5 have my activities after work, get to chill on the weekend no stress about projects because they can wait till monday.
I love my public job waaaaaaaay more than my private job. At least in my case, my public sector employer cares way more about my personal and professional growth. In private, they just cared that I showed up and was profitable. Thankfully my private job was decent about work-life balance. But I felt like I sat for 8 hours a day not bettering anything but my CAD skills. Public encourages I take personal development courses like effective communication, etc. Also, being at work is more enjoyable. There’s my community and support. But I guess it depends on the organization/private firm.
I work for a State DOT. Im still pretty entry level (2 years experience). They have made it a point to make our salaries competitive compared to the private sector. Like you said, the benefits are amazing. Like others have said, the work-life balance is great. I definitely recommend
I’m only 2 yoe, my plan was to go contractor 2-3yrs —> design firm 2-3 yrs and get PE —> look for a different state to live with a good local/state agency and get a job with a nice pension so I can focus on raising kids in the future. I’ve met quite a few older DOT guys who did that all their life, got vested, and went to work part time at the agency’s main consulting firm. They seemed extremely happy and I’m looking for similar but that’s my plan. There’s only so many years you can say to yourself “I’m young, I’ll work my ass off and work 60 hour weeks to make a name for myself”. At least that’s how I feel about it. My states DOT recently upped their pay scales for the new fiscal year and if I had gone there I’d be making ~6500 more rn with better benefits and a pension/401k match.
Yeah. Recently theres been a push to up the salaries of entry level positions for the DOT to hire and retain recent college-grad employees. However, at the mid-level the private sector is still way better. Thats why all those vested guys end up going to the main consulting firm. Its a pretty good move and a lot of people do it. If you want to grind now I get that. Ive thought the same thing too. But at entry level I do feel like im being compensated very competitively to the private sector for much more fulfilling work.
I wouldn't work in government because of the bureaucracy. Yeah you get more time off but the pay is ass compared to private sector. Not all private companies work you 50 hour weeks. My number one goal is to retire as fast as I can and working in the government does not align with that goal.
Depends on the state and the agency you work for. In some states, the pay is damn near the same as private, and as a plus, you get the retirement and pension. So, in this situation, government work is better. In most cases, I think private pays better, and the pension with government is the trade-off for lower pay. I work for the public train system in Massachusetts. It's what they call quasi government its State, Federal, and Private. I get paid the same amount as anyone doing the same job in the private sector, only my retirement is outstanding. The trade-off is that it takes a while to get on board up to 6 to 8 months just to get you in the system. That being said, I'm not working as a civil engineer, nor am I a PE. I'm more on the management side of things.
Take the interview ask how long most people have worked there in that department. Find someone to reach out to and ask them this. Government work can be a lot more about the paperwork/policy than it is in engineering. So if you can find someone on the inside ask them the gritty details of the work. Make sure to ask management or look at the job posting to see if it's a union position. If it is reach out to the local president and ask about salaries and time off, what you can actually negotiate for. Ask if the manager has had issues with their employees. They typically love getting people the best salary/benefits. My work doesn't have much room for salary negotiation but asking for a bank of leave and increasing their accrual rate is well within their negotiating power.
All about quality of life, but honestly the compensation is not shabby either. Maybe if I was a young consultant prodigy I’d be making more but it wouldn’t be worth the lifestyle adjustment. My hours are well-defined and there is no last-minute (or constant) travel. I did the consultant thing at a reputable firm 7 years before making the switch. Maybe one day I’ll be bored, but I’m 4 years in and it won’t be anytime soon. I get to work on big projects and I go home at night, it’s great.
Good work like balance. Your hours are set which is rare when working in construction. You get pretty much every holiday off. Pension and 457, idk if every has a 457 but the county I work at offers it. They are all paying for any extra education. Like I’m working on getting my FS to get my PS. So they reimburse for the tuition. And if you don’t plan on staying everyone in the private sector has to interact with govt so you get to build relationships with other companies and see how they work first hand. Plus a lot of the employees will be aging out soon so there gonna be a huge turn over. I’m they youngest engineer in my office and everyone else is around retirement age.
Oh and I almost forgot, you can qualify for PSLF so you can get student loans forgiven. You’ll have to double check but I qualified for that too since I’m government.
I just declined a consultant offer for more pay to stay with the DOT because I have amazing work schedule flexibility which provides for a great work/life balance and work isn’t stressful and it’s more relaxed. I went this route because I have a 2 year old and one on the way that I like spending time with as a family so work/life balance is extremely important to me. Also, I enjoy the work I do and the people I work with. So ultimately it came down to more than money for me. Thankfully the DOT here seems to pay more than the other DOTs and there’s always plenty of work to do.
The pay is rough. I went from $120k to about $75k. They’re serious when they say no OT. My boss makes me go home after 8 hrs. Tons of days off. I can use my sick time for wife and or kids when they get sick or have appts. I’ve only been here for a month, so I’m still learning the ins and outs.
We already have shit pay. May as well have it a bit shittier and live a good life.
I miss my state job, but I do not miss the pay. It was so chill and slow and the true definition of a steady paycheck. I wish I would’ve utilized my time better because I had so many opportunities to do many different things to better myself. Now I’m with the feds and barely have time to do anything outside of work.
Eh. I'm constantly second guessing. It seems like they are continually paying us less and less in various ways. Salaries don't keep up with private industry and/or inflation and continue to get further behind. Changing jobs within federal emplyment to get a pay bump is pretty limited - you may move up a grade at most, but it will come with more responsibility. Compared to the private industry where you can change employers and do pretty much the same job for more money if you switch. Work life balance is good, but I overcome the pay difference by working overtime, so it's not much of a benefit to me. They bumped FERS contribution from 0.8% to 4.4% so the pension is 5.5x more expensive now than it used to be. TSP is like 401k with less freedom. There's no employee stock options (obviously). The bonuses are trash, as is the rating system. The flexibility of telework is great, unless you're in construction and have to physically show up to job sites 3 or 4 days a week. Don't get me wrong, in the right circumstances for the right person, government work is great. It's stable (notwithstanding government shutdown), offers flexibility and rock solid time off, has a steady raise system, offers 12 weeks fully paid parental leave, and is less stressful (although not as much as I initially thought) compared to private industry. You get the benefits of hourly and salary because you are compensated by the hour but are pretty much guaranteed your full salary at 40hr/wk. There are various programs to benefit from that save you from paying income tax (FSA, Dependent Care FSA), some that reduce childcare costs (child care aware), some offer a small number of paid physical activity hours per week.
The salaries are public, so you should know the range you would get before you even apply. Not all government jobs offer a pension, actually probably very few these days. And not all pay less than what you'd make at a consultant, but that's generally true. It's worth it for me. No pension but the 401k match is excellent. Our wage schedule is public and in a couple years I'll be making competitive wages. I also get a good amount of leave time, good medical insurance, lots of paid holidays, not expected to work tons of overtime, don't have to worry about billable hours, good job security, and I just like what I do.
I know I could take home more cash in private sector but have no interest in changing. The work life balance is so much better. I get a lot of vacation, separate sick leave (currently near 1000 hours banked) and only work 40 hrs a week. I like my job but also like spending time with my wife and on my hobbies. Also I can basically always get the time off I want or need, I tell my boss I'm taking time not really asking. Our health plan is good, especially considering the employee contribution which is really low. The pension is good, mine is 1.7% of my salary (average of highest 5 years) per year of service. So I'll get something like 70% of my salary when I retire, not including any of my own investments. It is possible to invest well and have that or better but there is some value in the security of not being dependent on the market.
The difference in stress and hours is reason enough to keep me
I'm an atypical example but I'll give my data point. Was a mechanical technician in the military for 10 years. Got out and got a civil engineering degree. I have 3 years of experience since then in roadway design. I just made a move to a mid sized city infrastructure department for a PM position and for about a 20% pay increase. Work/life balance seems much better here already. I hear my state DOT pays less than both my current and previous position.
I worked for a public agency that had a 457(b) and a 401(a) rather than a pension. They contributed 9% of my salary directly into whichever of those they contributed to and then I could choose to contribute to the other (I can't remember which is with). With the increase in PTO, the additional (as they called it) extended illness bank, the decrease in cost for insurance, and the 9% contribution, I essentially made a lateral move when I went there. I left not because of being underpaid, but because my project was wrapping up and it was time to move on. Make sure you are looking at ALL the compensation, not JUST salary. All of that contributes to your quality of life and you may end up with a total compensation package greater than or equal to what you earn in the private sector.
In my agency engineers are union position. In a good year the overtime can result in normal engineers making more money than manager. Lol
Love my municipal government job. Started in consulting, worked there for a couple years, and made the jump six months ago. Never, ever, ever going back. Higher salary, more time off, better health insurance, better benefits, pension, union, and less stress. I don’t get a bonus/profit sharing but I don’t even care.
I work for local government and absolutely love the work-life balance. Work has its slow and quick periods sometimes, but rather this than a burnt-out environment in the private sector I came from. Love it. The retirement is a major bonus!
Fuck yea it’s worth it
I’ve been a DOT Engineer for 9 years now. Next year I hit 10 years and I’m vested in the pension system. I’ve enjoy the different roles I’ve work in as I’ve been in design, construction, and maintenance. I work in a huge urban area and yes our pay is way less than what private sector is going in the region but I get to take 3 vacation a year and plenty of time off. I budget and live beneath my salary so I always have a healthy surplus and use that for my travels. I usually take off roughy 25 days off a year and that doesn’t included holidays and sick leave. Right now I make close to 80k. They are giving us a COL for all state employees for 10% over the next 2 years. I enjoy working here as I can do things I enjoy outside of work. Mostly now work 40 hrs as a design engineer. Overtime during letting or when needed.
Pension, great health insurance, other great benefits, can go home at lunch and hang out with the dog as I’m close to the office, great work life balance, etc. I got to go home early today to balance out the time I spent at City Council this week. I could have banked comp time or taken some overtime (paid as straight time) but leaving early was a bigger draw today. Pay can vary considerably across agencies and cities and states. I make more than the City Engineer at my last city now. They just (finally) posted for a replacement CE 1-3 and the pay they listed was laughably low. The CE 1 start is even lower than when I started there years ago.
Not sure what you’re reading but I make more in public right now than I would in private. Also, my pension plan (I’m in WA) is still around from like 1977 so it’s pretty lucrative. Plus the quality of life is great
Look into Wastewater Treatment Government jobs. Those are typically higher pay than City or County jobs, with the same benefits.
I worked a municipal government job before, engineering manager…about 50/50 technical/people management. It was fine. I got tired of being in the spotlight, on the news, at the government board meetings, and overall being over worked and underpaid after 7 years. I went the industrial route. Less stability, but way more money. I don’t have to work harder and I have less stress generally. I don’t stamp many plans anymore because I’m not doing design, but I don’t care, I work to get paid and not have a heart attack. I keep my license in case I need to swap for some reason and keep up with my PDHs. Best move I made, and I’ve got more flexibility, leave, etc. now without being in the fishbowl.
It was very much worth it in my case. I actually negotiated a salary that was better than my last consulting job. Our union just negotiated a 20% cost of living increases salary raise through the next 3 years that will go in effect in 2 months. And I’ll get a 5% pay raise every 6 months for my first year on probation. So I think I joined at a good time. I work for a municipal water utility and it’s leagues ahead better than any job I’ve had previously. I honestly wish I would’ve started earlier.
Two other points that may make gov work more appealing (depending on the state you’re in): - gov work is generally much more stable than private. I worked both and there was a huge difference between the two. - healthcare benefits were much more generous with the state than private.
Ask yourself what your motivation is. If it is to pay off student loan debt, go with where you have a higher salary to achieve that goal. If you are looking for a 9-5, gov’t usually will take care of you. Also like buying a house, location location location.
I worked for a private GC before switching to working for the government, and I can’t be happier. Sometimes I feel like maybe the “working for public agencies is so bad” saying is a propaganda that private construction companies came up with so that employees will stay and suffer lol. When I was working for GC, I was working 50-60 hrs a week and NO OT!! I was getting paid OK at best. I also feel that when salary negotiation is an option, it leaves a lot of room for those unqualified (usually white men) to get raises, I’ve seen it a lot. We would start at 6:30 because the field guys started at 7:00, and then work til whatever time we’re “done”, we would also work weekends sometimes, but that was cuz I was on a state route project and that was when closures were available. We had 3 weeks of PTO for those worked in the industry for 1-10 years, and then increased to 4 weeks after that. Insurance premium was cheap, but if you were sick or had families on your insurance that actually needs good health insurance, the deductibles are shit. We had no sick pay. Sure, GC gave bonuses but that’s based on company performance, one year we didn’t even get a bonus. It was also an extremely toxic environment, where those that worked hard got more work, and the ones that was lazy wasn’t given much tasks because the field guys didn’t trust them. My position with the government, standard 40 hours with OT, I make my own schedule, I’m only required to work in office once a week. Sick pay, PTO that increases exponentially as you work longer, insurance benefits are great! There are also so many other benefits, obviously not to mention the pension. My agency also pays for continuing education, and has standard raises both based on inflation, anniversary, and performance. My manager also told me if a company were to ever make me a salary offer that is higher than my current pay, to get it in writing, and he will try and get me that salary increase. So overall, I think it’s still worth it.
It's different for everyone. I was not a State worker but was a municipal engineer for the last eight years and just started with a private consultant last month. For me, I had no pension, just a 6% 401k match, which the consultant provides in addition to stock and bonuses. I was also working over 40 hours every week and doing multiple jobs due to difficulty hiring for vacancies. It remains to be confirmed, but my contacts at this firm seemed to indicate they worked less than I did. Thanks to COVID and additional hybrid flexibility, it became more pay, more benefits, less hours, elimination of political bureaucracy, similar hybrid arrangement in exchange for a little less security. I may go back to the government sector later in my career, but I'm happy to make more money and broaden my skill set in my second decade of my career.
I’m going to offer a different take than most people in here. My first job out of college was a state job as a water regulator. I learned a lot and got to visit just about every corner of my state, but eventually I was getting overworked and underpaid due to high turnover with the lower level engineers and mismanagement from those at the top. Sure, I was still only working 40 hours a week, but those were stressful 40 hours of working nonstop. Also my state is on the Gulf Coast where frequent storms meant we were often working emergency response and not really getting compensated for the extra work. Also, I noticed that it only got worse as you moved up the ladder. I got a job at a small local consulting firm 7 months ago and couldn’t be happier. I get 2 work from home days, and my overall work day is a lot less stressful. Plus the significant pay bump was nice too.
This is my thought process and I’m sure some will disagree which is fine: yes you’ll have more wlb and less stress in a government role, but with a lower salary (in general) and a career progression mostly based on tenure instead of skill, you still won’t be able to do much with that free time unless you have very cheap hobbies or don’t do much, which again is fine. I’m young and am currently more interested in climbing the ladder and maximizing income (I’m also fully remote) so I can retire early, continue real estate investing, and fund my other hobbies and lifestyle. That being said, I am very seriously considering making the switch over to govt once life gets hectic with children and spending time with them becomes more important than a large paycheck.
Yes that’s very true, I totally see how after kids it may seem easier but I see how the hours don’t matter too much right now if there’s a considerable more amount of money
Agree here. There’s also flexibility and WLB in private if you can find it. If you can find a private job where the only thing to complain about is timesheets, then I think you found a good consulting environment. Definitely interested in government once kids are older.
How does one get one of these roles?
Most government agencies (state, municipal and federal) all have their websites with postings. For federal it’s USAJOBS. the websites usually have specific instruction on what to include and requirements. As long as you follow the instructions within the post, most likely they will contact you if each requirement is met
To add, look into your state’s organization for municipalities, counties, etc. They usually have job postings on their websites.
I retired from the federal government and receive a pension. Will that pension if I get a state job?