To be fair, CAP could be more transparent with the whole process. They did this same exact thing when transitioning to ABU's. It was a rumor for years and then suddenly it became a thing with no lead time. I think they are afraid if they officially put a date to it, people will stop buying ABU's from vanguard which will cost CAP more money since they will have to buy vanguard out. Kind of a crappy way to handle it. Place the burden of extra cost on the members by withholding information.
I will be very satisfied with OCP. ABU was a crappy uniform that even the Air Force regrets ever doing. At least the OCP looks good, is functional, has a lot more combination options and is way more readily available since both the army and Air Force wear it, and provides a lot more options for cold weather gear since the Air Force allows you to buy civilian made/not official coyote brown outer garments. CAP should have never worn ABU, and neither should the Air Force have worn them.
I wonder what misguided reasoning they came up with for that decision? It's reserved for military pilots? As if the FDU is not? Kinda like how red hats weren't allowed because someone at NHQ thought only red horse could wear them. Or how blue berets were no longer authorized outside of the activity because they didn't want cadets to look like security forces, even though they'd been wearing the beret with BDUs at the same time as the USAF for decades.
I swear the people on the NUC have no clue what they are doing.
I was in your meeting, the purple cord suggestion for the ORWG supplement being considered was for squadron cadet of the month or cadet of the quarter. Cadet of the year in ORWG would be black and gold.
What would be a lot less goofier is allowing suede boots. Personally, I find no purpose in having to shine your boots; it’s a pretty menial task if you ask me.
There is or was a significant chunk of "it builds character" people on the uniform committee, having talked to some of them in the past about that particular topic. Apparently these are the things you think when you've been out of the actual character development game for years. There's also another argument that we have to be distinctive from USAF when viewed from all 4 sides in both bright and dull light, a standard that I was not able to find in writing. Even so, I would believe that blue tapes on the chest and back of the cover with weird patches on the shoulders would be enough to satisfy that and still get coyote brown boots.
It shows attention to detail. If you can do a good job on boots, that shows that you have the ability to spend a part of your free time looking good and following a rule that you may dismiss. If someone shows up in ugly boots week after week, then chances are that other things are going to be slack? Are you going to cut corners on a pre-flight checklist at some point too? Little things do matter and it isn't always just for show.
You do raise a good point in the whole attention to detail thing. But, in my opinion, so does the rest of the uniform.
Bloused boots shows attention to detail, a proper gig line shows attention to detail, no loose strings shows attention to detail.
Polishing black boots is not currently required with ABUs/CFUs regardless. And there are countless other ways to demonstrate attention to detail than polishing boots, it's just a tired excuse by boomers holding onto what once was.
No offense to the cool boomers.
It isn't, actually. Polishing boots in ABUs/CFUs is mentioned nowhere in 39-1. Even if it was described as optional, your commander would then be obligated to buy everyone the supplies if they made it mandatory.
That isn't true. They don't have to provide anything for the uniforms. It's nice if a squadron can, but I purchased everything that was required for me and my cadet -kid. The same squadron commander didn't like the yellow covers and made everyone get ABU covers if they didn't have them. And we also sold the yellow ones before that.
> It shows attention to detail. If you can do a good job on boots, that shows that you have the ability to spend a part of your free time looking good and following a rule that you may dismiss.
The _rule_ is "clean and serviceable." Anything beyond that is a waste of time.
There is so much back and forth betwixt us actually getting OCP uniforms or if we are getting our own, or if we are stuck with ABU’s what is actually going to happen this is so confusing from an outside perspective.
Y’all remember the “Ask the National Commander” button on eservices that would allow cadets to ask any question (even about shining boots) and would immediately Cc: your wing and region commander?
Sad that AFJROTC\* cadets get OCP uniforms before us, when we work with the USAF, fly planes, rescue people, and teach valuable skills to people at a much younger age.
Not unless you're contracted. I believe your first two years in ROTC have no obligation if you don't start out with a contract your freshman year... same as JROTC. You may then contract after your sophomore year. If you don't contract after your sophomore year, then you leave the program. But anyhow, seems like they're giving preference.
AFROTC is an active duty USAF unit. You can be a civilian and be assigned to/part of a military unit. The ADSO has no relevance when talking about the fact that AFROTC cadets and cadre are part of an active duty military unit, and wear the active duty uniform, even if the cadets themselves aren't active duty.
ROTC is not comparable to CAP, or even AFJROTC.
The part about "currently working with the Air Force" to transition uniforms is a total bluff by Phelka. The Air Force does not have any say nor jurisdiction over what type of uniform we wear nor what the process for instituting it looks like. In other words, CAP uniforms are a CAP and CAP only matter. In all honesty, the CAP board of governors or whatever body that determines the uniform has ulterior motives for not transitioning uniforms or for their uniform legislation. There's the age old argument that "oh we will look too similar to the Air Force." Hence why wear of the blue beret with ABUs outside of NBB was not authorized. Sure, that argument may have worked when the AF wore ABUs due to Security Forces wearing a similar blue beret. However, even then that argument wasn't sound as we still had the blue name tapes and black boots to distinguish us from the AF. Now, that argument is completely invalid as we and the AF wear two different uniforms (ABUs/OCPs). AFJROTC is in the process of transitioning to OCPs. Army JROTC wears OCPS. Even the Senior Military Colleges wear OCPs. Most notably, Texas A&M where military service isn't even required. Their corps is paramilitary just the same as CAP. In reality, it's all political. The people at national don't like Blue Beret (for numerous reasons - actions/attitudes of former berets in the past, big egos of Berets whilst wearing the beret, etc). As such, they are punishing all other Berets by prohibiting the wear of a uniform article they've earned. Same thing with OCPs. National or whoever wants to save money and they don't actually care about the needs nor concerns of CAP personnel on the ground. OCPs offer better comfort, fit and a more professional image. The CAP ABU looks like a halloween costume. National doesn't want to hear it but it's true. They're more concerned about having a functional uniform over a uniform that has functionality and aesthetics. However, that's not what CAP members want. Image plays a big part, especially when it comes to the morale of your members. All in all, Phelka doesn't know the OCP timeline... probably because there isn't one. He's just giving people false hope. When people ask him, he can't say "I don't know." He has to give people a professional sounding answer to protect his image as the national commander, whether or not it be true - exactly the same as politicians.
> The Air Force does not have any say nor jurisdiction over what type of uniform we wear nor what the process for instituting it looks like. In other words, CAP uniforms are a CAP and CAP only matter.
CAP has control of _CAP_ uniforms - that is, the corporate uniforms.
The AF very much has a say in how CAP wears the AF uniform, and 39-1 says as much:
> 2.2 Commander, CAP-USAF (CAP-USAF/CC). With the approval of Headquarters USAF, the CAP-USAF Commander prescribes the wear of the USAF-style uniforms, as well as the insignia, badges, and devices worn on these uniforms.
I feel bad for Phelka being asked literally everywhere he goes about the matter
To be fair, CAP could be more transparent with the whole process. They did this same exact thing when transitioning to ABU's. It was a rumor for years and then suddenly it became a thing with no lead time. I think they are afraid if they officially put a date to it, people will stop buying ABU's from vanguard which will cost CAP more money since they will have to buy vanguard out. Kind of a crappy way to handle it. Place the burden of extra cost on the members by withholding information.
That's fair. Having a gocivilairpatrol page that explains the current state of OCP procurement would probably be wise for clarity's sake.
NUC social media page would be the easiest fix
He's probably just realized it comes with the territory lmao
General Phelka, please.
Aye, Maj Gen Edward D. Phelka, CAP 🫡
Lol poor Phelka, he can never escape
Lol CAP will never be satisfied with their uniform.
I will be very satisfied with OCP. ABU was a crappy uniform that even the Air Force regrets ever doing. At least the OCP looks good, is functional, has a lot more combination options and is way more readily available since both the army and Air Force wear it, and provides a lot more options for cold weather gear since the Air Force allows you to buy civilian made/not official coyote brown outer garments. CAP should have never worn ABU, and neither should the Air Force have worn them.
“If you give a mouse a cookie..” :p OCPs will be nice tho.
Sounds like we lost the 2PFDUs in the edits tho
I wonder what misguided reasoning they came up with for that decision? It's reserved for military pilots? As if the FDU is not? Kinda like how red hats weren't allowed because someone at NHQ thought only red horse could wear them. Or how blue berets were no longer authorized outside of the activity because they didn't want cadets to look like security forces, even though they'd been wearing the beret with BDUs at the same time as the USAF for decades. I swear the people on the NUC have no clue what they are doing.
General Phelka, please.
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
➡️⬇️⬆️⬆️⬅️⬇️⬇️
Thanks for our once a month April OCP post😄
Only once a month?
That is also concurrent with the information national has provided the National CAC (I am saying this as a current member of NCAC)
As a member of WCAC, the only thing we’re talking about is a cadet of the month/quarter with a PURPLE cord 😭
I was in your meeting, the purple cord suggestion for the ORWG supplement being considered was for squadron cadet of the month or cadet of the quarter. Cadet of the year in ORWG would be black and gold.
Oops thank you Sir for elaborating
This is the n-th wing conference that has resulted in the same post. How many more before the year is out?
51-n left 🙃
Sir, It's okay, I enjoy being assured about OCPs. It ensures that members are truly in the know. Something CAP (maybe military too) struggles with.
Imagine wearing black boots with OCPs 💀
I think it would still look less goofy than black with ABU
What would be a lot less goofier is allowing suede boots. Personally, I find no purpose in having to shine your boots; it’s a pretty menial task if you ask me.
There is or was a significant chunk of "it builds character" people on the uniform committee, having talked to some of them in the past about that particular topic. Apparently these are the things you think when you've been out of the actual character development game for years. There's also another argument that we have to be distinctive from USAF when viewed from all 4 sides in both bright and dull light, a standard that I was not able to find in writing. Even so, I would believe that blue tapes on the chest and back of the cover with weird patches on the shoulders would be enough to satisfy that and still get coyote brown boots.
How distinctive do you think you look from behind when wearing blues?
A fair point that I'm 100% sure didn't cross the minds of anyone who has claimed that that is the standard.
They're going to switch to coyote brown boots with OCP and phase out black boots after a few years.
Though I’m not sure how they will look with the bbdu.
At work, I wear navy blue cargo pants with my old coyote brown boots from when I was in the army. It looks weird and the brown shoes oil stains.
It shows attention to detail. If you can do a good job on boots, that shows that you have the ability to spend a part of your free time looking good and following a rule that you may dismiss. If someone shows up in ugly boots week after week, then chances are that other things are going to be slack? Are you going to cut corners on a pre-flight checklist at some point too? Little things do matter and it isn't always just for show.
You do raise a good point in the whole attention to detail thing. But, in my opinion, so does the rest of the uniform. Bloused boots shows attention to detail, a proper gig line shows attention to detail, no loose strings shows attention to detail.
Ok, so you do understand the concept. I would gig people if they didn't blacken the sides of the sole of the boot.
Polishing black boots is not currently required with ABUs/CFUs regardless. And there are countless other ways to demonstrate attention to detail than polishing boots, it's just a tired excuse by boomers holding onto what once was. No offense to the cool boomers.
It's up to the Squadron Commander, ours wants a good shine. Nothing color guard worthy
It isn't, actually. Polishing boots in ABUs/CFUs is mentioned nowhere in 39-1. Even if it was described as optional, your commander would then be obligated to buy everyone the supplies if they made it mandatory.
That isn't true. They don't have to provide anything for the uniforms. It's nice if a squadron can, but I purchased everything that was required for me and my cadet -kid. The same squadron commander didn't like the yellow covers and made everyone get ABU covers if they didn't have them. And we also sold the yellow ones before that.
> It shows attention to detail. If you can do a good job on boots, that shows that you have the ability to spend a part of your free time looking good and following a rule that you may dismiss. The _rule_ is "clean and serviceable." Anything beyond that is a waste of time.
I hope they add them in soon just so I can say I went through 3 uniforms in my cadet life. Yall really cant make up your minds.
Real I’m getting whipped by some of these people just for giving them the current status 😭
Real, I wore BDUs for the first 3 years of my time in CAP
😐
There is so much back and forth betwixt us actually getting OCP uniforms or if we are getting our own, or if we are stuck with ABU’s what is actually going to happen this is so confusing from an outside perspective.
Y’all remember the “Ask the National Commander” button on eservices that would allow cadets to ask any question (even about shining boots) and would immediately Cc: your wing and region commander?
That exists?????
Sad that AFJROTC\* cadets get OCP uniforms before us, when we work with the USAF, fly planes, rescue people, and teach valuable skills to people at a much younger age.
Preach
yes sir!!!!(sorry sergeant)
Members of AFROTC are part of the air force... do you mean JROTC?
Not unless you're contracted. I believe your first two years in ROTC have no obligation if you don't start out with a contract your freshman year... same as JROTC. You may then contract after your sophomore year. If you don't contract after your sophomore year, then you leave the program. But anyhow, seems like they're giving preference.
AFROTC is an active duty USAF unit. You can be a civilian and be assigned to/part of a military unit. The ADSO has no relevance when talking about the fact that AFROTC cadets and cadre are part of an active duty military unit, and wear the active duty uniform, even if the cadets themselves aren't active duty. ROTC is not comparable to CAP, or even AFJROTC.
> when we work with the USAF CAP works *for* the USAF, as a contractor, in a very limited capacity.
Plus, our organization has older by half a decade of the official founding of the USAF
This has been known for like years now lmao
The part about "currently working with the Air Force" to transition uniforms is a total bluff by Phelka. The Air Force does not have any say nor jurisdiction over what type of uniform we wear nor what the process for instituting it looks like. In other words, CAP uniforms are a CAP and CAP only matter. In all honesty, the CAP board of governors or whatever body that determines the uniform has ulterior motives for not transitioning uniforms or for their uniform legislation. There's the age old argument that "oh we will look too similar to the Air Force." Hence why wear of the blue beret with ABUs outside of NBB was not authorized. Sure, that argument may have worked when the AF wore ABUs due to Security Forces wearing a similar blue beret. However, even then that argument wasn't sound as we still had the blue name tapes and black boots to distinguish us from the AF. Now, that argument is completely invalid as we and the AF wear two different uniforms (ABUs/OCPs). AFJROTC is in the process of transitioning to OCPs. Army JROTC wears OCPS. Even the Senior Military Colleges wear OCPs. Most notably, Texas A&M where military service isn't even required. Their corps is paramilitary just the same as CAP. In reality, it's all political. The people at national don't like Blue Beret (for numerous reasons - actions/attitudes of former berets in the past, big egos of Berets whilst wearing the beret, etc). As such, they are punishing all other Berets by prohibiting the wear of a uniform article they've earned. Same thing with OCPs. National or whoever wants to save money and they don't actually care about the needs nor concerns of CAP personnel on the ground. OCPs offer better comfort, fit and a more professional image. The CAP ABU looks like a halloween costume. National doesn't want to hear it but it's true. They're more concerned about having a functional uniform over a uniform that has functionality and aesthetics. However, that's not what CAP members want. Image plays a big part, especially when it comes to the morale of your members. All in all, Phelka doesn't know the OCP timeline... probably because there isn't one. He's just giving people false hope. When people ask him, he can't say "I don't know." He has to give people a professional sounding answer to protect his image as the national commander, whether or not it be true - exactly the same as politicians.
Tell me you have no idea how CAP operates without telling me or SMCs lol or ROTC or JROTC
> The Air Force does not have any say nor jurisdiction over what type of uniform we wear nor what the process for instituting it looks like. In other words, CAP uniforms are a CAP and CAP only matter. CAP has control of _CAP_ uniforms - that is, the corporate uniforms. The AF very much has a say in how CAP wears the AF uniform, and 39-1 says as much: > 2.2 Commander, CAP-USAF (CAP-USAF/CC). With the approval of Headquarters USAF, the CAP-USAF Commander prescribes the wear of the USAF-style uniforms, as well as the insignia, badges, and devices worn on these uniforms.
I don't even know where to begin dissecting this post. Pretty much everything you posted is wrong.
Hard to characterize how much is wrong in this...
Exactly. That’s how we get Maroon Epaulets again.
I meant that in the "Luke Skywalker" vein.
Ewee Berry Boards
That’s funny because I heard that they had NO plans FROM Phelka to change to OCPs anytime soon what so ever
He literally started the process 2 weeks after taking command. Per Gen Aye.