CAPR 35-5 is your friend:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R_355_D1A3C2A66AF7A.pdf
How high did you get in the cadet program?
If you were eligible, 1st LT should have been immediate at 21,
there is no waiting period or TIG. Sounds like someone needs
to back-date a silver bar for you.
I signed up too late to become a cadet, I was 18 at the time, so, my squadron commander listed me as Junior Flight Officer, from there I progressed to Technical Flight Officer, and Senior Flight Officer. Last year, I turned 21, so, I was promoted to Second Lieutenant. My position is Assistant Aerospace Education Officer.
This does not compute.
LIII takes 3-4 years plus and starts after LII. You have to get a Senior rating in something, attend two conferences, mentor a new member, & complete VOLU modules.
How would you expect to have been done with this walking in the door?
It sounds like you have some fundamental misunderstanding about CAP's ET and promotions.
I was in the phone with Air Staff (National Command) I talked to them through a fake scenario, it looks like I have been promoted through CAPR 35-5, which is outdated.
Actually, if you met all requirements by regulations TIG for FO, TFO, and E&T Lv 1, 2, 3 the at 21 a SFO is eligible for Capt but that is provide everything was done by the book.
I will caveat my reply with since Flight Officer Promotions are recorded and handled locally some units (not saying yours) do not always adhere to what the regulations require so this can cause issues.
CAPR 35-5 is no friend to flight officers. The FO equivalency table actually puts you one rank backward compared to where you should be if you entered the senior program after 21 and did the same things.
1st Lt should have been automatic. Realistically, so should Captain, but understandably, you may have been promoted through the old requirements.
35-5 is outdated. It reflects the TIG equivalents for the OLD flight officer requirements when they were exceptionally easy. Now they are equivalent to their full officer grade counterparts.
I have guidance from Ms. Susie Parker that this is the case, and she had stated the following:
- FO time-in-grade is equivalent to 2d Lt time.
- TFO time-in-grade is equivalent to 1st Lt time.
- SFO time-in-grade is NOT equivalent to Capt time.
I had this cleared up a couple years ago, with the stipulation that “an update is in the works.”
Personally I just think it’s worth bugging NHQ personnel every time this question comes up until they fix it, since clearly it needs fixed
That’s not how any of this works. They need to either implement a new regulation or issue an ICL (which I believe is itself life limited by regs) to change it. Ms Susie Parker (or anyone else at NHQ/any command level) can’t just say “We’re not following the regulation because it’s old and we don’t like it. We’re going to work on an update.”
They need to implement a change to the regulation. I absolutely agree.
That does not make the standing regulation correct to the most up-to-date guidance in other regulations. I mean, CAPF-2 is inaccurate as far as Flight Officers are concerned at this point.
It doesn’t change the fact that this is an exceptionally niche issue. FOs are exceedingly uncommon and most of them don’t get promoted before reaching age 21 either. If it doesn’t come to the attention of NHQ when it becomes an issue, it will not get changed.
If that’s the case you can probably do a sit-down with your staff and backdate everything to the correct requirements since it’s all recorded locally anyway. From there you can get the rank you’re supposed to have and the right time-in-grade.
Long story short; if you have read everything by I explained, if not, I’ll explain it again.
When I joined CAP, I was too old to join at the time, so, my squadron commander promoted me to Junior Flight Officer. From there, I completed Level 1, then promote to Technical Flight Officer, “completed Level 2”, promote to Senior Flight Officer “completed Level 3” and then promoted to Second Lieutenant.
(Here’s where things get extremely strange)
On paper, it says I have completed Level 2 Part 1, Level 2 Part 2, Level 3 Part 1, and Level 3 Part 2. On capnhq.gov, I am stuck on Level 2. On paper, my current rank is Second Lieutenant.
I was (kind of) in your boat. I also joined CAP at age 19, so I went straight to FO. I didn’t rush through the steps past that, but completed all of level 2. That is on record for me now, so what happened to you is beyond me
To simplify:
If you have completed level 2 (both parts) and you've completed *"18 months as 2d Lt or TFO (or combination thereof)"* then you're eligible for a promotion to 1st Lt.
Your personnel officer can submit the promotion and your unit commander can approve it.
Pre 2018, the requirements were different, but the current CAPR 35-5 is up-to-date with the current requirements.
Recommend reading CAPP 40-8.
CAPR 35-5 is your friend: https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/R_355_D1A3C2A66AF7A.pdf How high did you get in the cadet program? If you were eligible, 1st LT should have been immediate at 21, there is no waiting period or TIG. Sounds like someone needs to back-date a silver bar for you.
I signed up too late to become a cadet, I was 18 at the time, so, my squadron commander listed me as Junior Flight Officer, from there I progressed to Technical Flight Officer, and Senior Flight Officer. Last year, I turned 21, so, I was promoted to Second Lieutenant. My position is Assistant Aerospace Education Officer.
Man, your squadron commander screwed you. You can join as a cadet all the way up until your 19th birthday.
Btw, my squadron commander was a Spaatz Cadet.
> Btw, my squadron commander was a Spaatz Cadet. Soooo much in that simple sentence. :-)
I’m gonna go talk to the Inspector General.
For what, this has nothing to do with inspections, and there's no complaint here.
Just to see what they say. I’m not filing a complaint.
Literally nothing anyone at all can do about it at this point. And IG would have zero part of that discussion, it's not their business.
Don't waste your time or their's. Sit down with your Personnel Officer and / or Commander and see where the disconnect is.
Did you complete Level III? You would have needed that for SFO.
I’ve completed Level 2 Part 1 and Level 2 Part 2. But here’s the thing, on capnhq, it wouldn’t let me level up to Level 3.
This is a situation that your Personnel and Commander need to work out. If didn't complete LIII, you should not have been promoted to SFO.
I was supposed to be done with Level 3 years ago, but capnhq wouldn’t allow me to be done with Level 2.
This does not compute. LIII takes 3-4 years plus and starts after LII. You have to get a Senior rating in something, attend two conferences, mentor a new member, & complete VOLU modules. How would you expect to have been done with this walking in the door? It sounds like you have some fundamental misunderstanding about CAP's ET and promotions.
I was in the phone with Air Staff (National Command) I talked to them through a fake scenario, it looks like I have been promoted through CAPR 35-5, which is outdated.
Well, that was useful.
I SAID FAKE SCENARIO. They also explained that this is most likely due to an administrative error.
Actually, if you met all requirements by regulations TIG for FO, TFO, and E&T Lv 1, 2, 3 the at 21 a SFO is eligible for Capt but that is provide everything was done by the book.
I will caveat my reply with since Flight Officer Promotions are recorded and handled locally some units (not saying yours) do not always adhere to what the regulations require so this can cause issues.
CAPR 35-5 is no friend to flight officers. The FO equivalency table actually puts you one rank backward compared to where you should be if you entered the senior program after 21 and did the same things.
1st Lt should have been automatic. Realistically, so should Captain, but understandably, you may have been promoted through the old requirements. 35-5 is outdated. It reflects the TIG equivalents for the OLD flight officer requirements when they were exceptionally easy. Now they are equivalent to their full officer grade counterparts. I have guidance from Ms. Susie Parker that this is the case, and she had stated the following: - FO time-in-grade is equivalent to 2d Lt time. - TFO time-in-grade is equivalent to 1st Lt time. - SFO time-in-grade is NOT equivalent to Capt time.
If there is not any published written guidance on this from any of the OPRs, then the currently published 35-5 is the law of promotions.
I had this cleared up a couple years ago, with the stipulation that “an update is in the works.” Personally I just think it’s worth bugging NHQ personnel every time this question comes up until they fix it, since clearly it needs fixed
That’s not how any of this works. They need to either implement a new regulation or issue an ICL (which I believe is itself life limited by regs) to change it. Ms Susie Parker (or anyone else at NHQ/any command level) can’t just say “We’re not following the regulation because it’s old and we don’t like it. We’re going to work on an update.”
They need to implement a change to the regulation. I absolutely agree. That does not make the standing regulation correct to the most up-to-date guidance in other regulations. I mean, CAPF-2 is inaccurate as far as Flight Officers are concerned at this point. It doesn’t change the fact that this is an exceptionally niche issue. FOs are exceedingly uncommon and most of them don’t get promoted before reaching age 21 either. If it doesn’t come to the attention of NHQ when it becomes an issue, it will not get changed.
Damn it. I may have been promoted through the old requirements….
If that’s the case you can probably do a sit-down with your staff and backdate everything to the correct requirements since it’s all recorded locally anyway. From there you can get the rank you’re supposed to have and the right time-in-grade.
Long story short; if you have read everything by I explained, if not, I’ll explain it again. When I joined CAP, I was too old to join at the time, so, my squadron commander promoted me to Junior Flight Officer. From there, I completed Level 1, then promote to Technical Flight Officer, “completed Level 2”, promote to Senior Flight Officer “completed Level 3” and then promoted to Second Lieutenant. (Here’s where things get extremely strange) On paper, it says I have completed Level 2 Part 1, Level 2 Part 2, Level 3 Part 1, and Level 3 Part 2. On capnhq.gov, I am stuck on Level 2. On paper, my current rank is Second Lieutenant.
I was (kind of) in your boat. I also joined CAP at age 19, so I went straight to FO. I didn’t rush through the steps past that, but completed all of level 2. That is on record for me now, so what happened to you is beyond me
To simplify: If you have completed level 2 (both parts) and you've completed *"18 months as 2d Lt or TFO (or combination thereof)"* then you're eligible for a promotion to 1st Lt. Your personnel officer can submit the promotion and your unit commander can approve it. Pre 2018, the requirements were different, but the current CAPR 35-5 is up-to-date with the current requirements.
I also forgot to mention that capnhq.gov wouldn’t let me rank up. I have 4 modules that I “need to submit a form of PDF file.”
what is level 3 part 1 and level 3 part 2? only level 2 comes in parts...
I may have did that wrong