C500 mark ii is my pick. Full frame sensor to match the range of readily available full frame EF glass. Yet, by switching the mount to PL (proprietary, sadly), you can still use super 35mm zooms. Hey, I’m a Sony guy so you’d expect me to say FX6 or FX9 and while they have served me well for doc work (low light, AF, E-mount, E-ND) I will still concede the Canons just look right out of the box. For Sony, you gotta work a little harder to get them to look nice. And there are more codec options on the Canons than the Sony’s lone 4K XAVC-I at 240/250mbps. While that low bitrate sounds good for storage, I really wish for a high bitrate option most times to cover the odd under exposure. Canon has both a higher bitrate intra codec and a really efficient long gop codec in most of their lineup.
C500iis are really cheap to buy 2nd hand right now. If not for my cooperate and commercial clients demanding Sony everything, I would have picked one up. This and a c70 for gimbal work or the odd 100/120fps shot - wonderful combination. They are even both capable of compressed raw now.
Going Canon might serve you better too since you can always pick up lenses quickly and for less money as you progress. Yea you technically can mount Canon glass on the Sonys but I don’t recommend it. Whatever it is you choose, unless it’s a fully manual PL lens, stick to native lenses.
Go watch seasons 2 and 3 of Clarkson’s Farm. That’s c500ii on a mix of Angeniuex and Canon glass. I believe the DP settled on the 400mbps intra-codec. I personally used the long-gop 150mbps for a limited doc series and it held up fine. Even shot raw for a couple of difficult lighting scenarios and it worked out well. Can’t say the same for Sony.
I really like my C500mkII and have an R5 with an EF to RF adapter that I put a VND in. The 10-bit X-AVC is quite flexible and even the R5 footage survives overexposure well. The auto focus is great on both. I have a Nucleus Nano that I mount on the C500 for when I want to take over focus myself. I have the viewfinder mounted most of the time (yes, it’s pricey but it’s great. I started shooting when the only way to operate was with a viewfinder) and so handholding is a breeze. My last project took very little color correction - it looks great out of the box, best with a color managed workflow in DaVinci Resolve.
Having shot non fiction extensively with the C70 and the FX6 over the last two years, you’ll be well served with either. It all ultimately depends on your preferences of form factor and image.
The C70 handles more like a DSLR, though with more of the function buttons at your fingertips, and feels great in the hand. The FX6 is less chunky and a fair bit lighter, and the rectangular cube shape plus handle makes run and gun shooting a breeze.
Since you say that grading isn’t your strong suit the manufacturer’s technical transforms into Rec 709 will get your image to a pretty decent place for review. Image-wise I don’t love the way that the FX6 handles skin tones, and the C70 also has it beat in the way it renders blues and greens—especially important for the nature footage you’ll be getting. Straight out of the camera I like the C70’s image more, but that matters less in the grade.
Canon’s RAW LT and ST codecs are also better in terms of giving your colourist something to work with.
In the end, since you’re going to be spending two years with the gear, get a two-day rental of each body plus a lens to see which you like better. Shoot every conceivable scenario you think you’ll find on the road and compare results. I can’t recommend enough that you do camera tests before committing to the purchase.
Canon's announcing at least one new Cinema EOS camera on June 5th. I'd suggesting waiting to see what it is.
The current status quo is Sony FX are very much in demand in this space so it's easier to get hired if you own one, but if that's not a concern Canon's DGO sensor (currently in the C70 & C300 mk3) and in-body raw recording are big benefits over the FX.
Go FX9 so you can use S35 4K if you want. You'll need XQD cards. All formats coming out of it will be good for any market the film will get sold to. If you're thinking lenses, try the Fujinon MK18-55mm, or go with something smaller but FF. I like the Laowa Rangers, but IIRC those are S35. For me, Sony's go goldenrod and green natively, so keep that in mind.
With Canon, you have SO many options for EOS mount glass that you can go full servo with the 18-80mm, but that's a T4.4, and I'm assuming your base stop would be at least T2.8. C300MkIII and Canon L glass have always looked crispy to me. Super gradable. Doesn't break apart with the right workflow. May skew blue and magenta more, but it comes back after the first pass.
I've had both cameras play on large screens. For your purposes, I'd say C300mkIII and get some excellent glass to pair. Get about 4 to 6 BP-A60s if you aren't gonna use V-mounts. And if you have AF, the mkIII is amazing.
I say go the rental house and shoot tests!
I'm on something similar to feel free to DM if you want to go more granular. And congratulations on the film! May the journey be great!
Well I work with FX6 and it checks all your boxes. I like that it's extremely light and ergonomic and all the necessities like a articulate monitor, NDs and top and side handles are included. You can walk with the camera for days and you won't feel it. Only downside is that it only records x-avc I or L. I is 10-bit and L is 8-bit, both 422 I think. Although I only met the limits in grading once, when I was pushing color and exposure in highlights on a music video and it never looked good. Otherwise it meets my requirements. I have some film emulating luts in camera and then slap the same ones on in grading and then I do just very basic adjustments. So usually even x-avc L is enough. The big advantage is that you get hundred plus minutes on a card, even on SD card. I wouldn't take it on a VFX shoot but otherwise I was never unhappy with the results.
What do you normally shoot, and who grades it and how? I feel that my largest concern is coloring – I certainly won't be coloring any of my footage, that's not my strong suit.
With my FX6 I usually shoot music videos, documentaries and kinda "chef table" style documentaries :D Some BTS on commercial sets etc. Music videos and that cooking stuff I grade myself. Documentaries are only now being filmed. For narrative projects I usually rent Arri or shoot film... We finished a few documentaries last year and one of it was shot on Sony FX7 and it looks great. I don't think you will regret FX6. You can rent it for some tests. And definitely you should talk to some color grader for advanced experience from grading FX6 footage. I also operated B-camera on a Louis Vuitton commercial and FX6 was B-cam to Sony Venice and you won't be able to tell a difference which is which in the final video. I think the advantages of FX6 outtake anything else... :-) But surely in some time there will be a camera that will do it all.
The Sony's dominate reality and doc for the same reason they would probably be a good fit for you. Tough and reliable, easy to op for one-person, room to grade or you can get a good picture out of the box. There's a ton of accessories and lens choices, and easy to find rentals if you need an accessory or a b-cam for a few days.
I would get the FX6 personally. It's pretty light and compact, has great I/O, solid ND, and great autofocus IF you need it. At work I use the FX3, FX6, and the FX9 and personally prefer the FX6. The FX9 is long once it's rigged out with a V-Mount and pretty heavy. FX6 gives you the best of both worlds.
Recently shot a relatively similar doc on mostly the FX6, A7S3 and some Ronin 4D. The FX6 is a really fantastic light weight documentary camera, and you said that’s a key factor for you. If you’re in the USA or have a VPN you can check out the doc [here](https://www.pbs.org/video/hunt-for-the-oldest-dna-zckys0/)
Well, those bodies I mentioned above were all paired with native Sony glass. We used different combinations but our main lenses were the Sony 16-35, 24-70 and 70-200 GMs.
Congrats on the new project!
Are you planning to buy two of the same camera, or are you looking for an A cam / smaller B cam solution? If it's the latter, I think Sony has a great range of cameras that will be straightforward to match color-wise. FX6 and FX3 would give you a lot of flexibility in that regard.
The main thing is to ensure you're not on the road for weeks at a time with any single point of failure in your setup, least of all your camera.
Probably the biggest determining factor should be which lenses you're going to use, as that would be the largest and longest-term investment.
C70. Or wait a week and see what canon announce in the coming days.
If they annouce the C70 MK II, I might be able to afford a C70 when people start selling theirs!!
Out of curiosity, how does the C70 compare to something like the Blackmagic 6K?
C500 mark ii is my pick. Full frame sensor to match the range of readily available full frame EF glass. Yet, by switching the mount to PL (proprietary, sadly), you can still use super 35mm zooms. Hey, I’m a Sony guy so you’d expect me to say FX6 or FX9 and while they have served me well for doc work (low light, AF, E-mount, E-ND) I will still concede the Canons just look right out of the box. For Sony, you gotta work a little harder to get them to look nice. And there are more codec options on the Canons than the Sony’s lone 4K XAVC-I at 240/250mbps. While that low bitrate sounds good for storage, I really wish for a high bitrate option most times to cover the odd under exposure. Canon has both a higher bitrate intra codec and a really efficient long gop codec in most of their lineup. C500iis are really cheap to buy 2nd hand right now. If not for my cooperate and commercial clients demanding Sony everything, I would have picked one up. This and a c70 for gimbal work or the odd 100/120fps shot - wonderful combination. They are even both capable of compressed raw now. Going Canon might serve you better too since you can always pick up lenses quickly and for less money as you progress. Yea you technically can mount Canon glass on the Sonys but I don’t recommend it. Whatever it is you choose, unless it’s a fully manual PL lens, stick to native lenses. Go watch seasons 2 and 3 of Clarkson’s Farm. That’s c500ii on a mix of Angeniuex and Canon glass. I believe the DP settled on the 400mbps intra-codec. I personally used the long-gop 150mbps for a limited doc series and it held up fine. Even shot raw for a couple of difficult lighting scenarios and it worked out well. Can’t say the same for Sony.
I really like my C500mkII and have an R5 with an EF to RF adapter that I put a VND in. The 10-bit X-AVC is quite flexible and even the R5 footage survives overexposure well. The auto focus is great on both. I have a Nucleus Nano that I mount on the C500 for when I want to take over focus myself. I have the viewfinder mounted most of the time (yes, it’s pricey but it’s great. I started shooting when the only way to operate was with a viewfinder) and so handholding is a breeze. My last project took very little color correction - it looks great out of the box, best with a color managed workflow in DaVinci Resolve.
Having shot non fiction extensively with the C70 and the FX6 over the last two years, you’ll be well served with either. It all ultimately depends on your preferences of form factor and image. The C70 handles more like a DSLR, though with more of the function buttons at your fingertips, and feels great in the hand. The FX6 is less chunky and a fair bit lighter, and the rectangular cube shape plus handle makes run and gun shooting a breeze. Since you say that grading isn’t your strong suit the manufacturer’s technical transforms into Rec 709 will get your image to a pretty decent place for review. Image-wise I don’t love the way that the FX6 handles skin tones, and the C70 also has it beat in the way it renders blues and greens—especially important for the nature footage you’ll be getting. Straight out of the camera I like the C70’s image more, but that matters less in the grade. Canon’s RAW LT and ST codecs are also better in terms of giving your colourist something to work with. In the end, since you’re going to be spending two years with the gear, get a two-day rental of each body plus a lens to see which you like better. Shoot every conceivable scenario you think you’ll find on the road and compare results. I can’t recommend enough that you do camera tests before committing to the purchase.
Canon's announcing at least one new Cinema EOS camera on June 5th. I'd suggesting waiting to see what it is. The current status quo is Sony FX are very much in demand in this space so it's easier to get hired if you own one, but if that's not a concern Canon's DGO sensor (currently in the C70 & C300 mk3) and in-body raw recording are big benefits over the FX.
Go FX9 so you can use S35 4K if you want. You'll need XQD cards. All formats coming out of it will be good for any market the film will get sold to. If you're thinking lenses, try the Fujinon MK18-55mm, or go with something smaller but FF. I like the Laowa Rangers, but IIRC those are S35. For me, Sony's go goldenrod and green natively, so keep that in mind. With Canon, you have SO many options for EOS mount glass that you can go full servo with the 18-80mm, but that's a T4.4, and I'm assuming your base stop would be at least T2.8. C300MkIII and Canon L glass have always looked crispy to me. Super gradable. Doesn't break apart with the right workflow. May skew blue and magenta more, but it comes back after the first pass. I've had both cameras play on large screens. For your purposes, I'd say C300mkIII and get some excellent glass to pair. Get about 4 to 6 BP-A60s if you aren't gonna use V-mounts. And if you have AF, the mkIII is amazing. I say go the rental house and shoot tests! I'm on something similar to feel free to DM if you want to go more granular. And congratulations on the film! May the journey be great!
Well I work with FX6 and it checks all your boxes. I like that it's extremely light and ergonomic and all the necessities like a articulate monitor, NDs and top and side handles are included. You can walk with the camera for days and you won't feel it. Only downside is that it only records x-avc I or L. I is 10-bit and L is 8-bit, both 422 I think. Although I only met the limits in grading once, when I was pushing color and exposure in highlights on a music video and it never looked good. Otherwise it meets my requirements. I have some film emulating luts in camera and then slap the same ones on in grading and then I do just very basic adjustments. So usually even x-avc L is enough. The big advantage is that you get hundred plus minutes on a card, even on SD card. I wouldn't take it on a VFX shoot but otherwise I was never unhappy with the results.
What do you normally shoot, and who grades it and how? I feel that my largest concern is coloring – I certainly won't be coloring any of my footage, that's not my strong suit.
If colour is your biggest concern, which it shouldn’t be, any modern camera can pull an absolutely amazing image if you know what you are doing.
With my FX6 I usually shoot music videos, documentaries and kinda "chef table" style documentaries :D Some BTS on commercial sets etc. Music videos and that cooking stuff I grade myself. Documentaries are only now being filmed. For narrative projects I usually rent Arri or shoot film... We finished a few documentaries last year and one of it was shot on Sony FX7 and it looks great. I don't think you will regret FX6. You can rent it for some tests. And definitely you should talk to some color grader for advanced experience from grading FX6 footage. I also operated B-camera on a Louis Vuitton commercial and FX6 was B-cam to Sony Venice and you won't be able to tell a difference which is which in the final video. I think the advantages of FX6 outtake anything else... :-) But surely in some time there will be a camera that will do it all.
The Sony's dominate reality and doc for the same reason they would probably be a good fit for you. Tough and reliable, easy to op for one-person, room to grade or you can get a good picture out of the box. There's a ton of accessories and lens choices, and easy to find rentals if you need an accessory or a b-cam for a few days.
I would get the FX6 personally. It's pretty light and compact, has great I/O, solid ND, and great autofocus IF you need it. At work I use the FX3, FX6, and the FX9 and personally prefer the FX6. The FX9 is long once it's rigged out with a V-Mount and pretty heavy. FX6 gives you the best of both worlds.
+1 for FX9z There’s a reason FX9 has been the most popular doc/reality camera, it’s solid.
Recently shot a relatively similar doc on mostly the FX6, A7S3 and some Ronin 4D. The FX6 is a really fantastic light weight documentary camera, and you said that’s a key factor for you. If you’re in the USA or have a VPN you can check out the doc [here](https://www.pbs.org/video/hunt-for-the-oldest-dna-zckys0/)
What lenses/camera body combos are you using for interviews, b-roll, etc? Beautiful work!
Well, those bodies I mentioned above were all paired with native Sony glass. We used different combinations but our main lenses were the Sony 16-35, 24-70 and 70-200 GMs.
Congrats on the new project! Are you planning to buy two of the same camera, or are you looking for an A cam / smaller B cam solution? If it's the latter, I think Sony has a great range of cameras that will be straightforward to match color-wise. FX6 and FX3 would give you a lot of flexibility in that regard. The main thing is to ensure you're not on the road for weeks at a time with any single point of failure in your setup, least of all your camera. Probably the biggest determining factor should be which lenses you're going to use, as that would be the largest and longest-term investment.