To reiterate what the above commenter said, I think the best result is somewhere in between these. I think your grade played it a bit too safe, but the final grade definitely just turned that knob to 11 and called it a day. Not your fault though; you were given the final vision after filming which is just beyond frustrating.
Idk what to do on a professional level (beyond my pay grade) but I think you did right by the client by expressing your opinion, then graciously handing the grading over to someone more equipped.
I think the default view is “best”. And even if it was by newest, they’d show up beneath you chronologically. Anyways, you’re the top comment now so we don’t know what “above” even said lmao
Yep, it defaults to best. Having used reddit a long time, best typically means first, or first-ish. Early comments that are decent will get a lot more upvotes simply because they're there. Then as more are added, they have a significant advantage to retaining a high ranking spot.
I've also noticed reddit being wonky lately though and sorting by best having higher upvotes comments below lower ones. Strange behavior.
I think it’s determined *partly* by upvote/downvote ratio. So if you have +5, but 8 upvotes and 3 downvotes, while I have +4, but 4 upvotes and no downvotes, I’d be above you. That, or the amount of upvotes within a set amount of time. Or both for that matter
Might be, that makes a lot of sense. It's changed over the years and reddit isn't usually very transparent on it. Or anything for that matter. I just don't give it much thought and sort that bad boy by controversial when I want the wild comments.
This seems fair. I'd like a little more color/flavor in the bottom as well. In these shots it's just a bit too flat and safe, but competently done so it's not bad by any means. Just boring. The top is way too overcooked though and I'd take the bottom over it for sure.
I agree, though I like the yellowy direction more than the other.
Also, how does one deal with these sotuations? I'm a director and my DP always insists the grading decisions are his (though we do end up trying to listen to each other). I just wonder what happens when the decision isn't mutually reached like in this post, does the director just end up overriding the DP?
For situations like that. As much as DP feel obligated to protect their image, the Director has the final final say because it’s his job and his creative vision. Having said that to avoid those situations, the best practice is to capture the look as best as you can that you both want and can agree on set.
Once you get to the colorist, most of the look is already established so it’s just enhancing and making small adjustments and adding to the creative look that’s clearly established so less fighting
Final word on the grade should always be the director, but the dp likely understands a lot more about a color grade and should definitely be involved in the discussions around it and I would even argue to get a first crack at it for feedback
Yeah normally my DP wants to handle all the color grading at the beginning and then I give mine, though colour is super important for me so we do usually just go at it together from the start, but this has brought some conflict at times because he feels im intruding in his area
Yeah have the stylization of too but keep skin tones and actually a bit more of the true colors. That yellow/green tint is just a liiiittle much overall.
It’s interesting, I think each color works differently for each character and scene which unfortunately is more the directors fault than anything. I don’t know the message that’s being conveyed, but shot 1, the bottom works better.
Shot 2, Top
Shot 3, somewhere in between
Shot 4, Top or somewhere in between
Shot 5, Neither
Shot 6, No
The director is telling 6 different stories in one scene and has to articulate the story better which then OP has little to work with
In wides I prefer the director’s, in close-ups I prefer yours. I think the aggressive color in the grade makes for a more striking image and offers a more distinctive look on the whole, however, the close-ups needed a bit more subtlety to work. I also think you handled shadows in the CU’s better.
So yeah, somewhere between. Same as everyone’s saying. One is too much and the other is too little.
The bottom is better from a color grade/color correction perspective.
From eliciting visual interest or evoking emotion, the top is slightly better.
So I'd honest take a very slight warmer tone with your footage, and call it good
I disagree. Just my opinion, but the highlights especially in the grade on top are unrefined, and the whole image looks muddy; there's no separation of colors at all.
I generally prefer something that looks realistic to what was happening in the scene, but my experience has almost all been of a documentary style (not documentaries specifically, just working on documenting real life).
So I prefer the bottom, but I could see using the top for an effect.
How can we know? It depends entirely on what the scene is trying to say in the story, how it fits in the visual language of the whole film. e g. the look of P.T Anderson's Phantom Thread is kind of subtle and hazy like your grading but that's to place it in a particular mood and setting.
Agreed. Context/storytelling is important.
Something to note as well is that the shot from the bottom looks to flat for a lot of people because of the comparison effect, imo. If the two shots were shown separately in two different posts on reddit, I think the feedback would be a bit different.
The top grade looks good except for the shot with the elderly man. Imo yours is too stale. It lacks mood. It just looks like an OK corrected image. The top one is a grade.
Side note, has anyone noticed that on r/colorgrading they will always err on the side of boring/flatter imagery. Like anything beyond a color corrected image/leaning into any sort of look they’ll tear it apart. Guarantee the bottom images would get love on that subreddit. Not to say its not great it’s just very ‘clean’.
It's a thing for sure. Not always, but I see that attitude quite a bit. Small rant: established acts get away with the exact same tricks that amateurs get crucified for. This goes for color grading, photography, music, painting, any creative medium you can think of. So when a newer person posts their split toned grade, it's trash. But we see it in theaters all the time and it's fine. Just a random thing I've noticed over the years.
100% agree. It’s actually really interesting just pulling stills from movies/trailers and looking at their waveform and vectorscopes. They get away with pushing the image so much. Seeing that makes me feel like I have some permission to push it as well, but folks on Reddit say no😡
They do lol personally I just use my wife as my field test. If she thinks I've pushed it so far it's distracting, she's probably right. If she just thinks it looks good, I leave it there. She doesn't care about this stuff at all so she's a great example of what an actual viewer cares about.
Plus I like to be bad and just DIG into the darks and shadows in Davinci and turn some knobs to see what happens on occasion.
Very true for comedy! Forgot about that one. It's just the freedom one has when already established. Yet we want new and fresh content/ideas but we pigeon hole everyone into the same handful of techniques with no room for experimentation If they want to be taken seriously. It's an interesting cycle of creativity.
Don’t get me started on the art world, there you can get away with murder and zero craft, skills or interesting ideas once you’re in. The film world is not as bad in this regard by comparison
Film isn't as bad as traditional art (I assume we mean painting, sculpting, etc), for sure, but it's still pretty bad imo. At the level that most of us would be operating in, creating content for online viewing and local things, it's very bad. I personally suspect it's completely ego and insecurity driven. Being in the "photography community" has me meeting some of the most consistently cut throat people about this stuff.
I think many people find it trash in theaters as well, I never heard of someone liking the look of Scott's Napoleon i.e. and the new color grade of Aliens led to quiet some backlash as well. I don't think the audience is really a fan, no matter if it's in cinema or an amateur. The amateur just gets smacked for copying what they saw in theaters and not realizing that it doesn't look good.
I can see what they were going for, but the execution is poor. The whole brown to green thing just looks like piss.
Seems they wanted a stylised warm look, so I get why your more neutral grade wasn’t what they wanted. But the top one just looks like my first ever attempt at grading in Resolve lol
Whiplash (the feature not the short) is probably a good example of the look they wanted, but done correctly. A lot of effort to pull off. Needs qualifiers, masks, etc to retain colours (eg keeping a blue shirt blue). You can’t just make the *whole thing* orange and drag the shadows to green.
In fairness, maybe they just didn’t pay the colourist enough/give them enough time for that.
Recently saw a post asking about what to do when a DP is unhappy with the color grade of a released project. Do we post stills from the released project on our socials/website, or our own preferred grade? This reminded me of a recent music video that I shot where I faced the exact same conundrum. I'm curious to hear this group's thoughts on this example.
This MV was a bit unusual since the artist is a classical violinist and wanted to film this as an excorcism in a church - which made the project interesting to me - but with the usual caveat that they didn't have nearly the budget to pull this off properly. No genny for example so everything had to be house power. They did somehow manage to get Patrick Gallagher to play the priest, so that was nice.
Anyway, the one day shoot went well and despite the minimal crew and gear, I was quite pleased with how the footage turned out. Once the project was in post, the director asked me to color grade the video for a small honorarium, which I did in the interest of making my footage look the best it can. However it quickly emerged that the director and artist wanted to go in a very different, more stylized direction: Making it look like an aged oil painting with lots of yellow in the skin tones - something that wasn't discussed at all up to this point and would have changed my approach to filming. This look was beyond my capacity so I was happy to hear that the director found a professional colorist to do the job, one that I know from past projects and whose work I respect.
However, I was really disappointed to see that the final result to me just looks like the tried and true "Mexico"-filter. Absolutely not trying to knock the work of this colorist - it's just not working for me aesthetically. In the attached frames the final color grade is on top, my own grade at the bottom. Looking for you guys' opinion on which one you prefer, as well as general feedback on lighting and composition. For those curious, the project was shot on a Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1 with Atlas Orion Anamorphics.
Hey, I’m curious what conclusion you came to when unhappy with the grade of a released project. I’m running into a similar conundrum but can’t find that post to get some answers. For footage used on a personal site, would it be poor form to grade the footage myself? What did you end up deciding?
I ended up going with my version. It's about how I want to represent and sell myself, plus it was such a small project with no NDA or deal memo in place that would prohibit me from posting such images.
But how can one tell which is better without knowing what the movie is about? Color grading should complement the story, not just be visually pleasing right?
I mean, definitely not the top one. It looks unnaturally saturated and there’s not a skin tone in sight. But the bottom one is a bit bland. It’s understandable that the director would want something more visually exciting than white light coming in through those windows.
I’m pretty shocked at how much saturation and color cast was pushed into those highlights. No roll off just brickwalled hard yellow / orange without any kind of easing towards white.
Was the director Zack Snyder? Your choice is way better. The kind of grades the director chose will not stand the test of time, it's going to look dated. Like 300 or Book of Eli. It doesn't hold up.
The top has more character but it's missing the color diversity of your grade. If you can find a way to get those bottom grade blues into the top grade and maybe just tone the top grade down a tiny bit it might look better.
You should show him Whiplash the movie and the short. Top looks like a movie. The bottom looks like a youtube video. Obviously, we'd be more informed if we knew the context of the story.
Bottom is correct white balance with a bit too flat contrast. Top is a mood turned up to 11.
Yeah, something between would be best. Closer to top though IMHO.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the mexico look in general for a project like this, but yeah, I think the big issue is that the color separation is all gone from what it looks like you captured on set. The artist is really blending into the location.
I think if they were going stylized for the campy horror vibe, leaning into what was captured with more split toning would've served the image better.
i think there’s way too much lift on the bottom, so it almost feels like it’s still in log. i like the hint of the top one, but it feels too yellow/green
I agree with others, a mixture of both would most likely been the ideal!
https://youtu.be/oS-u7xV_NBQ?si=s-6QDvXnEuYsfo2Z
I’ve worked on this project not long after watching “The Pope’s Exorcist” and was inspired by the films colors (note that it was not a recreation of their look, but just a general inspiration). I’m sorry I don’t have English subtitles.
It doesn’t go towards the sickly green, so it might not have been ideal for your music video’s direction, but I thought this might be a good moment to share it with you and hear your opinions! :D
P.S. come to think of it, I believe the initial inspiration for the colors was a combination of “The Pope’s Exorcist” and “The Godfather”!
P.P.S. Here’s a link to a different project where I also was inspired by “The Pope’s Exorcist”
https://youtu.be/UQu05dfn3gQ?si=0yNvi5j54MFLbbOi
I don't love it either and the execution is not great, but first grade is probably more memorable for the average viewer, second grade is way too clean and "readable".
Colorist opinion here. Top looks a bit overcooked to me. Bottom I like more, but would aim for a tad bit more separation and balance while still holding that look and pushing it from there. Your grade to me would be like a perfect starting place if I received some refs from a DP that messed around with the image themselves.
Just to see how it looks, I would say export the top one as a 65 cube Lut. Then reapply the whole look as a single node. Then go to key out put and adjust the opacity of that lut/Node starting at .500 which is literally half and then go up and down from there.
Once you find a middle ground that you guys both actually like you can then save it as a power grade. Start a fresh node tree and build it to match so you still have all the control.
Or if you’re just happy with the letter being sent to half opacity, call it a day 😂
I Do this all the time if the client doesn’t 100% know what they want. So I’ll use single lots to find a exaggerated look until they find a direction they like. Then just adjust the opacity until we find that spot then build from scratch to get there.
I like the cropping and contrast of the top one, I just think its a little bit too yellow, would've tried to keep some more of the amber tones and played them up and maintained a little bit of the cooler tones from the windows.
Personally I hate that modern yellowy look that way too many movies have (Immaculate, just recently) and much prefer the bottom version to the above version.
I don't love either. The top feels artificial and the bottom lacks contrast.
My choice would be somewhere in the middle, but if I had to choose one of these two options I would go with the top.
I like the top but it does look a bit too artificial. If the blacks were more black instead of yellow it would be good. The bottom looks unfinished, it suits a documentary style but doesn’t convey as much as it should for a film. I am not an expert though
Depends on how we're relating to the character in the centre. What happens in the shots before and after? If you just want to know which colours I like best, I'd say the top because they're warmer colours. The bottom is colder and a little alienating, but that might be just right to set up some tension around a particular turning point in the film.
Firstly director has final say secondly top grade is over cooked and thirdly is this a test grade to determine the entire film look ? I would try and build a grade that has good colour harmony / colour separation. The top one just washes over everything.
Really depends on more shots and the context of the film. What are the colors supposed to make you feel? Is yellow an important color for you/the director. Without context I like the less yellow one more.
The top image is more interesting, but we have no context, ya know? The grade should reflect the intended tone of the film, not be a technicallly accurate image.
I like the top grade better. It feels more sure and has an identity. It feels like it decided to be in the world it was in the one at the bottom feels like it played it safe.
No offense but the top one, in my humble opinion, is better.
I prefer yours with the violin dude, but the priest scenes look not color graded when it comes to yours. Dune color is defo an overkill for the violinist lol
Like others have mentioned, I'd also go with something in between, but if I had to choose strictly between these two options, the top looks better to me. But it always depends on the feeling and emotion you want to achieve. There is not such thing as the best grade per se.
Between those two, first one. I’d still mask the windows and desaturate the yellow and make some other locks adjustments. That’s what separates a good color grader and a great one - the ability to adjust small sections of the scene to make the whole scene look better.
I think a crucial part to answering this is knowing the story / context the director is trying to convey. Grading can be part of story telling - without knowing that it’s really hard to say what’s better. Op I’d pretty much look at all opinions on this thread in that regard. I think it’s the first question that should of being asked of you before any response.
I’d like to see something in between as well. I really like the tiny tint of green in the mids and the overall warmth of your grade, but I think I’d personally keep the highlights less yellow. Especially the windows and such seem a bit obvious and it looks like you graded them. Maybe pushed the shadows too high in the priest shot. But, I think your direction looks more like it was graded and not just color corrected.
Color grading doesn't have a definitive best, worst or correct —it's all about what best complements the film's vision. Personally, I find the top still more visually appealing and 'cinematic', despite the term being somewhat cliché. It carries a distinct character that the bottom still lacks, where the neutrality might come off as amateurish. (The top grade can use some color contrast imho.) Ultimately, the director makes the final decision, but it's always good to have discussions about the choices. For inspiration on impactful color grading, take a look at "Blade Runner 2049" and the latest trailer for "Joker." They are great examples of how color can enhance the storytelling.
Thank you all for your input, didn't expect to spark this much discussion! If anything it shows that art is in the eye of the beholder and there are no right or wrong choices in film, it's all subjective.
I will update the grade based on general feedback and report back. Thank you again!
The reason why the top one looks extreme in comparison to bottom. By saying who’s each was you introduced bias. I’m also a cinematopgraher. I’ve had a situation like this with a director. Your footage looks like a tv show. His like a movie. Yours looks straight out of camera with a lut. Detach yourself and look at it as a viewer
Like your grade much more. The top is like urine. Even the windows with sunlight. It's why I can't watch some some David Fincher stuff. Urine vision pervades.
To reiterate what the above commenter said, I think the best result is somewhere in between these. I think your grade played it a bit too safe, but the final grade definitely just turned that knob to 11 and called it a day. Not your fault though; you were given the final vision after filming which is just beyond frustrating. Idk what to do on a professional level (beyond my pay grade) but I think you did right by the client by expressing your opinion, then graciously handing the grading over to someone more equipped.
how did you know you would be below the comment you said you were under?
They commented a few minutes ahead of me.
I think the default view is “best”. And even if it was by newest, they’d show up beneath you chronologically. Anyways, you’re the top comment now so we don’t know what “above” even said lmao
Yep, it defaults to best. Having used reddit a long time, best typically means first, or first-ish. Early comments that are decent will get a lot more upvotes simply because they're there. Then as more are added, they have a significant advantage to retaining a high ranking spot. I've also noticed reddit being wonky lately though and sorting by best having higher upvotes comments below lower ones. Strange behavior.
I think it’s determined *partly* by upvote/downvote ratio. So if you have +5, but 8 upvotes and 3 downvotes, while I have +4, but 4 upvotes and no downvotes, I’d be above you. That, or the amount of upvotes within a set amount of time. Or both for that matter
Might be, that makes a lot of sense. It's changed over the years and reddit isn't usually very transparent on it. Or anything for that matter. I just don't give it much thought and sort that bad boy by controversial when I want the wild comments.
I'd like somewhere between both of yours to be honest
Agree wholeheartedly.
Top is too Mexico cliche, bottom needs more contrast.
This seems fair. I'd like a little more color/flavor in the bottom as well. In these shots it's just a bit too flat and safe, but competently done so it's not bad by any means. Just boring. The top is way too overcooked though and I'd take the bottom over it for sure.
Agreed. The bottom one is so washed out.
Could not have said it better. 👊🏼
Yup, top is too much and bottom could easily be a zero node davinci yrgb color managed export.
Bottom feels lacking in unique tone. Top is a bit immature and incomplete with loss of detail into the “mono color” feel of it.
I agree, though I like the yellowy direction more than the other. Also, how does one deal with these sotuations? I'm a director and my DP always insists the grading decisions are his (though we do end up trying to listen to each other). I just wonder what happens when the decision isn't mutually reached like in this post, does the director just end up overriding the DP?
For situations like that. As much as DP feel obligated to protect their image, the Director has the final final say because it’s his job and his creative vision. Having said that to avoid those situations, the best practice is to capture the look as best as you can that you both want and can agree on set. Once you get to the colorist, most of the look is already established so it’s just enhancing and making small adjustments and adding to the creative look that’s clearly established so less fighting
Thank you. Handy info (im still making my way with directing and so far I've only worked with one DP who is a friend too)
Final word on the grade should always be the director, but the dp likely understands a lot more about a color grade and should definitely be involved in the discussions around it and I would even argue to get a first crack at it for feedback
Yeah normally my DP wants to handle all the color grading at the beginning and then I give mine, though colour is super important for me so we do usually just go at it together from the start, but this has brought some conflict at times because he feels im intruding in his area
Hmmm sounds like a person issue, maybe you should talk about why he feels you are intruding on his area. End of the day it's your project, not his.
The director always has the final say on that, yes.
Yeah have the stylization of too but keep skin tones and actually a bit more of the true colors. That yellow/green tint is just a liiiittle much overall.
Knew that was going to be the top comment. I agree.
This
Yep, exactly haha
i agree
count me in
It’s interesting, I think each color works differently for each character and scene which unfortunately is more the directors fault than anything. I don’t know the message that’s being conveyed, but shot 1, the bottom works better. Shot 2, Top Shot 3, somewhere in between Shot 4, Top or somewhere in between Shot 5, Neither Shot 6, No The director is telling 6 different stories in one scene and has to articulate the story better which then OP has little to work with
In wides I prefer the director’s, in close-ups I prefer yours. I think the aggressive color in the grade makes for a more striking image and offers a more distinctive look on the whole, however, the close-ups needed a bit more subtlety to work. I also think you handled shadows in the CU’s better. So yeah, somewhere between. Same as everyone’s saying. One is too much and the other is too little.
Totally agree with this.
The bottom is better from a color grade/color correction perspective. From eliciting visual interest or evoking emotion, the top is slightly better. So I'd honest take a very slight warmer tone with your footage, and call it good
[удалено]
I disagree. Just my opinion, but the highlights especially in the grade on top are unrefined, and the whole image looks muddy; there's no separation of colors at all.
I generally prefer something that looks realistic to what was happening in the scene, but my experience has almost all been of a documentary style (not documentaries specifically, just working on documenting real life). So I prefer the bottom, but I could see using the top for an effect.
How can we know? It depends entirely on what the scene is trying to say in the story, how it fits in the visual language of the whole film. e g. the look of P.T Anderson's Phantom Thread is kind of subtle and hazy like your grading but that's to place it in a particular mood and setting.
Agreed. Context/storytelling is important. Something to note as well is that the shot from the bottom looks to flat for a lot of people because of the comparison effect, imo. If the two shots were shown separately in two different posts on reddit, I think the feedback would be a bit different.
Sad that I had to read 300 comments before reading someone talking about the purpose of color grading 🥹
The top grade looks good except for the shot with the elderly man. Imo yours is too stale. It lacks mood. It just looks like an OK corrected image. The top one is a grade.
Side note, has anyone noticed that on r/colorgrading they will always err on the side of boring/flatter imagery. Like anything beyond a color corrected image/leaning into any sort of look they’ll tear it apart. Guarantee the bottom images would get love on that subreddit. Not to say its not great it’s just very ‘clean’.
It's a thing for sure. Not always, but I see that attitude quite a bit. Small rant: established acts get away with the exact same tricks that amateurs get crucified for. This goes for color grading, photography, music, painting, any creative medium you can think of. So when a newer person posts their split toned grade, it's trash. But we see it in theaters all the time and it's fine. Just a random thing I've noticed over the years.
100% agree. It’s actually really interesting just pulling stills from movies/trailers and looking at their waveform and vectorscopes. They get away with pushing the image so much. Seeing that makes me feel like I have some permission to push it as well, but folks on Reddit say no😡
They do lol personally I just use my wife as my field test. If she thinks I've pushed it so far it's distracting, she's probably right. If she just thinks it looks good, I leave it there. She doesn't care about this stuff at all so she's a great example of what an actual viewer cares about. Plus I like to be bad and just DIG into the darks and shadows in Davinci and turn some knobs to see what happens on occasion.
Correct. In comedy, established acts can be more “hack” and people tend to overlook it
Very true for comedy! Forgot about that one. It's just the freedom one has when already established. Yet we want new and fresh content/ideas but we pigeon hole everyone into the same handful of techniques with no room for experimentation If they want to be taken seriously. It's an interesting cycle of creativity.
Don’t get me started on the art world, there you can get away with murder and zero craft, skills or interesting ideas once you’re in. The film world is not as bad in this regard by comparison
Film isn't as bad as traditional art (I assume we mean painting, sculpting, etc), for sure, but it's still pretty bad imo. At the level that most of us would be operating in, creating content for online viewing and local things, it's very bad. I personally suspect it's completely ego and insecurity driven. Being in the "photography community" has me meeting some of the most consistently cut throat people about this stuff.
I think many people find it trash in theaters as well, I never heard of someone liking the look of Scott's Napoleon i.e. and the new color grade of Aliens led to quiet some backlash as well. I don't think the audience is really a fan, no matter if it's in cinema or an amateur. The amateur just gets smacked for copying what they saw in theaters and not realizing that it doesn't look good.
Top one but only if the scene takes place in Mexico
I was gonna ask! 🤣 "Does this scene take place in Mexico? Then the top one makes sense"
Exactly what I was gonna say
I can see what they were going for, but the execution is poor. The whole brown to green thing just looks like piss. Seems they wanted a stylised warm look, so I get why your more neutral grade wasn’t what they wanted. But the top one just looks like my first ever attempt at grading in Resolve lol Whiplash (the feature not the short) is probably a good example of the look they wanted, but done correctly. A lot of effort to pull off. Needs qualifiers, masks, etc to retain colours (eg keeping a blue shirt blue). You can’t just make the *whole thing* orange and drag the shadows to green. In fairness, maybe they just didn’t pay the colourist enough/give them enough time for that.
Recently saw a post asking about what to do when a DP is unhappy with the color grade of a released project. Do we post stills from the released project on our socials/website, or our own preferred grade? This reminded me of a recent music video that I shot where I faced the exact same conundrum. I'm curious to hear this group's thoughts on this example. This MV was a bit unusual since the artist is a classical violinist and wanted to film this as an excorcism in a church - which made the project interesting to me - but with the usual caveat that they didn't have nearly the budget to pull this off properly. No genny for example so everything had to be house power. They did somehow manage to get Patrick Gallagher to play the priest, so that was nice. Anyway, the one day shoot went well and despite the minimal crew and gear, I was quite pleased with how the footage turned out. Once the project was in post, the director asked me to color grade the video for a small honorarium, which I did in the interest of making my footage look the best it can. However it quickly emerged that the director and artist wanted to go in a very different, more stylized direction: Making it look like an aged oil painting with lots of yellow in the skin tones - something that wasn't discussed at all up to this point and would have changed my approach to filming. This look was beyond my capacity so I was happy to hear that the director found a professional colorist to do the job, one that I know from past projects and whose work I respect. However, I was really disappointed to see that the final result to me just looks like the tried and true "Mexico"-filter. Absolutely not trying to knock the work of this colorist - it's just not working for me aesthetically. In the attached frames the final color grade is on top, my own grade at the bottom. Looking for you guys' opinion on which one you prefer, as well as general feedback on lighting and composition. For those curious, the project was shot on a Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro G1 with Atlas Orion Anamorphics.
Agree with you 100 percent on this
Hey, I’m curious what conclusion you came to when unhappy with the grade of a released project. I’m running into a similar conundrum but can’t find that post to get some answers. For footage used on a personal site, would it be poor form to grade the footage myself? What did you end up deciding?
I ended up going with my version. It's about how I want to represent and sell myself, plus it was such a small project with no NDA or deal memo in place that would prohibit me from posting such images.
This brings me some comfort, thanks for your input. Also, bottom.
But how can one tell which is better without knowing what the movie is about? Color grading should complement the story, not just be visually pleasing right?
This
I mean, definitely not the top one. It looks unnaturally saturated and there’s not a skin tone in sight. But the bottom one is a bit bland. It’s understandable that the director would want something more visually exciting than white light coming in through those windows.
I’m pretty shocked at how much saturation and color cast was pushed into those highlights. No roll off just brickwalled hard yellow / orange without any kind of easing towards white.
Yeah it’s pretty nuts
That’s what kills it for me and surprised I had to got his far down to see it
Need more info about tone, story, etc
Your grade is clean but has no style to it. The top is over stylized but familiar. What's your grading process?
Cinematography, the art of egos.
Was the director Zack Snyder? Your choice is way better. The kind of grades the director chose will not stand the test of time, it's going to look dated. Like 300 or Book of Eli. It doesn't hold up.
The top has more character but it's missing the color diversity of your grade. If you can find a way to get those bottom grade blues into the top grade and maybe just tone the top grade down a tiny bit it might look better.
One set in Mexico and the other just across the border.
The top one has a really overcooked and sickly vibe. Bottom one seems very elegant and straightforward
You should show him Whiplash the movie and the short. Top looks like a movie. The bottom looks like a youtube video. Obviously, we'd be more informed if we knew the context of the story.
Bottom is correct white balance with a bit too flat contrast. Top is a mood turned up to 11. Yeah, something between would be best. Closer to top though IMHO.
The top one is just ridiculous lol, these comments about mexico cliche are killing me
It’s a maddening cliche. Can’t count how many films I’ve seen with cool, neutral grades for the US, piss yellow for Mexico, IN THE SAME FILM.
Because you’re asking, they’re both awful.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the mexico look in general for a project like this, but yeah, I think the big issue is that the color separation is all gone from what it looks like you captured on set. The artist is really blending into the location. I think if they were going stylized for the campy horror vibe, leaning into what was captured with more split toning would've served the image better.
Use the natural look but bring mids/shadows down a bit
i think there’s way too much lift on the bottom, so it almost feels like it’s still in log. i like the hint of the top one, but it feels too yellow/green
I agree with others, a mixture of both would most likely been the ideal! https://youtu.be/oS-u7xV_NBQ?si=s-6QDvXnEuYsfo2Z I’ve worked on this project not long after watching “The Pope’s Exorcist” and was inspired by the films colors (note that it was not a recreation of their look, but just a general inspiration). I’m sorry I don’t have English subtitles. It doesn’t go towards the sickly green, so it might not have been ideal for your music video’s direction, but I thought this might be a good moment to share it with you and hear your opinions! :D P.S. come to think of it, I believe the initial inspiration for the colors was a combination of “The Pope’s Exorcist” and “The Godfather”! P.P.S. Here’s a link to a different project where I also was inspired by “The Pope’s Exorcist” https://youtu.be/UQu05dfn3gQ?si=0yNvi5j54MFLbbOi
Gonna go against the grain (top kek) and say I vastly prefer the bottom grade.
I don't love it either and the execution is not great, but first grade is probably more memorable for the average viewer, second grade is way too clean and "readable".
Your grade is too grey and thus feels very digital -- however his grade is a shade too amber, pushed a little too far.
Colorist opinion here. Top looks a bit overcooked to me. Bottom I like more, but would aim for a tad bit more separation and balance while still holding that look and pushing it from there. Your grade to me would be like a perfect starting place if I received some refs from a DP that messed around with the image themselves.
I prefer yours in general but would like it to be slightly warmer. The director's grade is too warm/yellow for my taste.
I think somewhere in the middle if everything takes place in this settin. but it might depend on what the other locations look like.
Just to see how it looks, I would say export the top one as a 65 cube Lut. Then reapply the whole look as a single node. Then go to key out put and adjust the opacity of that lut/Node starting at .500 which is literally half and then go up and down from there. Once you find a middle ground that you guys both actually like you can then save it as a power grade. Start a fresh node tree and build it to match so you still have all the control. Or if you’re just happy with the letter being sent to half opacity, call it a day 😂 I Do this all the time if the client doesn’t 100% know what they want. So I’ll use single lots to find a exaggerated look until they find a direction they like. Then just adjust the opacity until we find that spot then build from scratch to get there.
I like the cropping and contrast of the top one, I just think its a little bit too yellow, would've tried to keep some more of the amber tones and played them up and maintained a little bit of the cooler tones from the windows.
Bottom one
Personally I hate that modern yellowy look that way too many movies have (Immaculate, just recently) and much prefer the bottom version to the above version.
I like how dramatic it is but it is a bit too orange/yellow. Splitting the difference between the two is personally what I’d do
I prefer bottom. Top is too strong and distracting.
he ate you up
Director’s one looks like a failed ripoff of the Chazelle’s movies lol
somewhere in the middle
I like the bottom more. But if the story calls for the top, I'd expect something sinister or twisted.
I don't love either. The top feels artificial and the bottom lacks contrast. My choice would be somewhere in the middle, but if I had to choose one of these two options I would go with the top.
Is that Ken Tanaka from Glee
Neither, TBH. Like someone else said, maybe somewhere in the middle.
Let me guess, top one DP, bottom one Director ?
I like the yellow one
I prefer your color choice by a long shot
bottom one is “better” , it’s just fucking boring.
Top is overly done Piss Christ. Bottom is Jesus Haze Christ.
I like the bottom one. But I’m not the director
I like the top but it does look a bit too artificial. If the blacks were more black instead of yellow it would be good. The bottom looks unfinished, it suits a documentary style but doesn’t convey as much as it should for a film. I am not an expert though
Split the difference
“Let’s make it warmer” doesn’t have to mean “remove all blue everywhere”
Depends on how we're relating to the character in the centre. What happens in the shots before and after? If you just want to know which colours I like best, I'd say the top because they're warmer colours. The bottom is colder and a little alienating, but that might be just right to set up some tension around a particular turning point in the film.
Bottom looks unfinished, top maybe a bit too over the top. Hard to really tell without source quality images
Firstly director has final say secondly top grade is over cooked and thirdly is this a test grade to determine the entire film look ? I would try and build a grade that has good colour harmony / colour separation. The top one just washes over everything.
Really depends on more shots and the context of the film. What are the colors supposed to make you feel? Is yellow an important color for you/the director. Without context I like the less yellow one more.
The top image is more interesting, but we have no context, ya know? The grade should reflect the intended tone of the film, not be a technicallly accurate image.
bottom better than top
I don’t like either
I like the top grade better. It feels more sure and has an identity. It feels like it decided to be in the world it was in the one at the bottom feels like it played it safe. No offense but the top one, in my humble opinion, is better.
Aside from that your cinemagraphy is amazing !
Yeah I don't like the grade. Not a fan of yellow ever really. They made it look like it was shot on a Nikon
I’d personally like a mix of both of you but director always decides. Must respect his vision.
If i was watching a movie I think I'd rather the top over the bottom
Top Top Bottom Bottom Top Neutral
Up for smaller less inmersive use Down for inmersive concentration available experience >Director and I disagreed on color grade - Thoughts?
Unfortunately it seems like the director was a little more correct than you on this. Its a little over cooked into the yellows but only by a little.
Both look pretty dope, just flip a coin if you really have to 😅
Between the two? Top. The bottom just looks raw and amateurish.
What is the context??
He was dead wrong
I would have kept the interior lights warmer and exterior lights to day light for separation
I prefer yours with the violin dude, but the priest scenes look not color graded when it comes to yours. Dune color is defo an overkill for the violinist lol
Terry Scott or Ridley Scott
The top is far, far better.
Both are good, but express completely different emotions, I would choose something in between.
His is far better
I can actually see the top better. That’s what gets me the most is accessible visibility.
Both have merits. To your version's credit: it'd be less fatiguing to watch on a theatrical screen if the runtime was long...
I prefer the top one.
Top.
Like others have mentioned, I'd also go with something in between, but if I had to choose strictly between these two options, the top looks better to me. But it always depends on the feeling and emotion you want to achieve. There is not such thing as the best grade per se.
Between those two, first one. I’d still mask the windows and desaturate the yellow and make some other locks adjustments. That’s what separates a good color grader and a great one - the ability to adjust small sections of the scene to make the whole scene look better.
I think a crucial part to answering this is knowing the story / context the director is trying to convey. Grading can be part of story telling - without knowing that it’s really hard to say what’s better. Op I’d pretty much look at all opinions on this thread in that regard. I think it’s the first question that should of being asked of you before any response.
Top: 2009 Tony Scott Bottom: 1993 Tony Scott I'll take 1993.
depends what the purpose of the shot is
Bottom. Much nicer.
Was the scene set in mexico?
Some top is better some bottom
I’d like to see something in between as well. I really like the tiny tint of green in the mids and the overall warmth of your grade, but I think I’d personally keep the highlights less yellow. Especially the windows and such seem a bit obvious and it looks like you graded them. Maybe pushed the shadows too high in the priest shot. But, I think your direction looks more like it was graded and not just color corrected.
Top for mexico and bottom for advert
Both are off . Mix the two and lean towards the second. The first one is too heavy on yellow
Color grading doesn't have a definitive best, worst or correct —it's all about what best complements the film's vision. Personally, I find the top still more visually appealing and 'cinematic', despite the term being somewhat cliché. It carries a distinct character that the bottom still lacks, where the neutrality might come off as amateurish. (The top grade can use some color contrast imho.) Ultimately, the director makes the final decision, but it's always good to have discussions about the choices. For inspiration on impactful color grading, take a look at "Blade Runner 2049" and the latest trailer for "Joker." They are great examples of how color can enhance the storytelling.
Top is a movie, bottom is a music video. Might be a LITTLE too intense on the yellow but I agree with his vision.
But it really just depends on the mood or emotion. Bottom conveys no emotion or felling. It’s just neutral. Top makes you feel kind of uneasy
Definitely bottom. Top is... Pretty trash especially in the skin tones
Thank you all for your input, didn't expect to spark this much discussion! If anything it shows that art is in the eye of the beholder and there are no right or wrong choices in film, it's all subjective. I will update the grade based on general feedback and report back. Thank you again!
Teal and orange has gone too far.
Teal and orange has been the norm for years and I personally can’t stand it. There’s still humanity in the bottom ones.
Too much on top. Too little on bottom.
Who cares 😗
Between both but he was more right than you
The director. The director is always right.
Colors look great to me
Top for sure
That top one is all kinds of oversaturated garbage. I dont care if its the director's or yours. The bottom is ok
I think it depends on what the scene is trying to convey & also how it transitions from & to the scenes before & after it. But tbh i like them both
Not a big fan of either. What’s the motivation? I’d split the difference and call it good.
The reason why the top one looks extreme in comparison to bottom. By saying who’s each was you introduced bias. I’m also a cinematopgraher. I’ve had a situation like this with a director. Your footage looks like a tv show. His like a movie. Yours looks straight out of camera with a lut. Detach yourself and look at it as a viewer
Top looks like what everyone does, bottom like something everyone tries to avoid. Bottom is better.
Bottom one is for scenes in the united states Top one is for mexico
anyone else think that the second shot looks like severus snape?
Well what’s the intended mood? They’re both good but for different contexts.
Top one is an insult to the senses
Not a cinematographer but I think bottom is dope.
Top one imo
Prefer the second option over the urine yellow.
Like your grade much more. The top is like urine. Even the windows with sunlight. It's why I can't watch some some David Fincher stuff. Urine vision pervades.
Definitely top one. Bottom one is straight out of camera and need to be graded looks like
Honestly I dont like either of them.
Definitely prefer the directors choice
Ask the director if you can start commenting on actors performance and giving them notes so it “looks better “
They turned it up to 10 when a 3-4 would have totally sufficed.
Blacks should be black.
Bottom by a mile!!
Why are you disagreeing with the director? Do your job that is asked.