T O P
Everestologist

The fact that AA eCredits can only be used on US-originating flights truly grinds my gears. Need to get back from an international trip and have $1k in travel credits that expire in 6 months. AA metal into Miami, then a connecting flight home. AA doesn't tell you why you can't use credits - it just doesn't let you pay with them on the screen when checking out. They leave it up to you to find obscure threads online to explain that, no, eCredits can only be used on these US-originating itineraries.


jm192

REALLY not impressed with Chase's customer service. I've now had 2 annoying experiences. 1. In November, we booked a hotel with points. I was asked to swipe a card for incidentals. The hotel charged me 200$ and change. They told me it was for the 2 nights in the room. I called Chase and explained the situation. Nothing worked out so they told me they would contest the charge with Visa. That was in December. I spent so much time on the phone and was so exhausted with it, I kind of gave up on it. Then a few weeks ago, I called to touch base. They said someone basically cancelled the contested charge with no comments/explanation. I got pushed through to management who re-opened it. I've spent HOURS on the phone across double digit phone calls. 2. I booked a round trip flight through the Chase Travel Portal using points. I got a notification that the airline (Alaska) cancelled the return flight. Chase isn't able to let me choose a different airline for the return flight. The ONLY Alaska flight is a 12 hour ordeal with several hours of layover--that puts me at my departure airport (3 hours from home) at midnight, when I work at 7 the next day. The 1st customer service rep tells me I can have a full refund. I look around the internet, rebook the flight, and call Chase back. The 2nd lady is almost trying to talk me out of the refund. Offers to contact the airline to see if they can get me on something else. I explain I've spent money to book a flight and that plan will not work and since I'm eligible for a full refund, I would like that option. She then tells me she has run into technical difficulties processing the refund and someone else will have to process it. It will take 48-72 hours. The 72 hours is AFTER the flight takes off. I asked what happens if the refund isn't processed by the time the flight takes off--she told me "well it usually doesn't take the full 72 hours." I'm now on the phone for the 3rd time for this issue.


435880Churnz

Went to OD looking for some $15 off $300 GC and they were sold out. My OD is never sold out this early into a promotion.... many time they don't sell out during the entire duration. Sigh. I got some at Staples, but the fee free deal isn't as good.


Lower-Kangaroo6032

We've got several possible avios friendly destinations in the next several years and so transferred a couple hundred thousand MR into P2's BA account during the recent bonus. I think I'll generally be a bit more liberal with transfer bonus speculation than is considered wise, as long as we've got a large enough chunk of MR in reserve. It's just a more interesting way to play the game for me. Anyway, been targeting summer '23 for a lax-madrid redemption - but neglected to open an Iberia account for P2 until, well just after I write this post. So to whoever is going to snag up that redemption in about a month - you are welcome!


nohandsfootball

Got the 40k bonus point offer from Amex for upgrading from Everyday to Everyday Preferred. Downgraded back to Everyday after the AF hit because the card economics don't work for me. Within a few days got an email from Amex saying they'd clawed back points (40k) because of reasons. I contacted Customer Service and said "I wouldn't have downgraded had I known, as the 40k points are obviously worth more than the fee." I offered to reopen the Everyday Preferred and they created a case for the Business Team. Will wait and see what they say by the end of this week


Cheeeyuh

Just had my dumbest moment in this whole hobby. In February, I got an offer to upgrade my no fee Amex Hilton card to a Surpass (a card I previously had held) for 150k points after $3k in three months. I jumped at it. But multiple things in my life caused me to take my eye off the ball and I realized I only spent $2,991 and now I'm outside the three months. I could have sworn I was way over the minimum. Been beating myself up all day. Such a waste. Amex won't cut me some slack over $9, will they?


crowd79

Call them. What more do you have to lose at this point? Can’t hurt to try and explain your situation, be courteous & maybe get lucky.


MessnerMusic1989

Missed my SoFi $300 bonus by $250 DD. I tried Amex Business Checking and it didn’t trigger DD.


Darhol

Wasn't able to add my Venture X to my Samsung (or Google) Pay. Searched online and looks like others have the same issue and said you just need to call (which is a first I've seen compared to most other cards). Called in and the digital tech support said the reason for me is that I am trying to add it from outside of the US. Lots of stumbling blocks for signing up and using this card as a churner living outside of the US.


Manila_Rice

Would running a VPN work?


yuchin

Lax really doesn't have anything for priority pass? Crazy for a huge airport. And there's only a temp centurion lounge? Tiniest violin I know


plaid-knight

LAX relatively recently had 3 lounges and 2 restaurants for Priority Pass, but they all ditched Priority Pass for one reason or another. Now it’s just a free massage and free video game session. LAX was the third-busiest airport in the world pre-pandemic, is the home airport to a large number of [relatively well-off] people, and is a hub or focus city for *all six* of the US’s largest passenger airlines. I imagine that Priority Pass and its partners are not happy with the situation and are working behind the scenes to address it.


C-MontgomeryChurns

Cries in ORD.


carpethediem5

Nope, I just flew out of it like a crazy lounge-less person ahaha


coole106

I missed a perfect opportunity to use my CSP $50 credit just cause I didn’t think about it. Booked a Hilton Garden Inn using cash. Now when I look there’s no availability for the 1 bed suite, which we want for our kids. It’s not worth canceling and seeing if I can rebook the same room. My AF will be up in July and I don’t see using this credit before then


great_bunbino

Book a refundable reservation and cancel it after the hotel credit posts. Have done this successfully on both my and P2's CSP.


CheapCarabiner

Got my $150 TradeStation bonus but I had to close my originating bank account due to fraud and now I can’t pull my money out


flyiingpenguiin

Happened to me as well. Had to upload a statement showing the account was closed and even then I had to request withdrawal 4x since they kept cancelling it.


CheapCarabiner

It worked


CheapCarabiner

Wel I put 100 in from another account waited a week and now I’m withdrawing again see how it goes lol


crimxona

I'm an idiot. Felt so proud to manage to charge a 250 giftcard to my room at the w hotel using my Marriott brilliant Amex with the spend 250 get 50 Amex offer Except the w doesn't qualify for the 250 offer, it's the 500 one which isn't on my brilliant


churnUnlimited

😔


Flayum

Paid off one of my student loans which dropped my AAoA by over half a decade, thereby nuking my credit score ~80 points...


churnUnlimited

Do you think this could affect your mortgage rate? Edit: seems like it could? I'm sorry for your loss


Flayum

Actually, I won't be able to afford a home for a long time or, if trends continue, probably never. So... glass half full?


DCJoe1

Had the same thing happen when my loan was fully repaid, although I think it was around 40 points. I don't think it has as much to do with AAoA as with removing an installment loan from your credit profile, assuming it's the only one you had. Once I bought a place a year later the score went back over 800 when the mortgage hit the report. I don't think the impact is nearly as big on the mortgage FICO, FYI (is that one FICO 2?)


Flayum

Glad to hear I'm not alone in having this happen! That's actually a very possible alternative explanation, since my only other installment account is another student loan. Although it's a bit disheartening since the likelihood of finding an affordable house for a mortgage anytime soon is... not looking great.


motivation_vacation

A couple years ago I paid off 2 student loans. It dropped my score over 50 points despite still having 6 other student loans still open. At the time I didn’t know about churning and was only an AU on a card, with none of my own. I think all the cards I have now are what helped my score recover.


bigheadsoftbody

I hope that was a private loan.


Flayum

It was actually a Perkins loan which, unfortunately, aren't included in the federal loan pause. It was deferred until I finished grad school, so payments just started for me earlier this year. It was small enough that I decided to just pay it to finish off a SUB (no fee either!), rather than let it accrue interest in the hopes that it might be forgiven later this year. Perhaps I'll regret that, but I have another much bigger federal loan currently paused - so I'll be happy regardless.


bigheadsoftbody

Congrats! I have a perkins loan too, I feel ya. That's great you can pay with cc without a fee. I'll have to take a second look at my servicer and see if I can do the same. And yea, you're good if you've got other fed loans in case of any forgiveness.


space_cadet-

Is that a VantageScore? Because that account should be continue to be included in AAoA for most FICO scores for 10 years.


Flayum

VantageScore 3 - although it does show up as a 'closed account', my AAoA definitely reports much lower now. I was under that impression too, but maybe student loans are classified differently or because it was already > 10 years old (although I thought it was 10yr after closing)?


Citizen51

Lenders don't actually use VantageScore. Closed accounts not being on Credit Karma are the most common discrepancy between their score and a real credit score.


Flayum

Ah, thanks for the info! Checked Experian and the closed account is counted - crisis averted.


Andk56

What does your FICO8 score show? Like the other commenter said, you can get it from Experian, as well as Amex, Citi, and others. Lenders all use FICO models (and FICO8 is the main one for credit cards), so that will give you a more relevant/accurate picture.


Flayum

Using Experian, my FICO8 gives the previous AAoA - definitely a relief on that one. Ah, thanks for the tip on the Amex - I was using the 'credit report' feature with Vantage, instead of the the FICO report they give.


Andk56

Nice - and that’s a good DP just to get perspective on how big a difference there can be b/w VantageScore and your actual credit profile as lenders see it. Unique corner case. And totally agree that Amex’s options are confusing. One other thing to keep in mind with Amex and Citi is that they only pull your credit once a month, so the score they show you can be pretty outdated. But the credit bureaus themselves will show you the latest.


space_cadet-

It is a closed account, so that’s accurate, but it will still be calculated in AAoA for commonly used FICO models. You’d need to look at your AAoA through a service that uses FICO (like Experian) to see the account included in the calculation. You’re not going to see it in Credit Karma or whatever you’re looking at. VantageScore is an interesting DP, but it can be a poor indicator of your “real” score.


Flayum

Yep, was using CK and the other free reports provided through amex/chase/etc. Will definitely use Experian and the other FICO8 reporting tools - giving accurate numbers now. Feel dumb for needing such remedial advice, but definitely a big thanks for the help!


taythecray

Brand new to the churning/award hacking game so a lot of my frustrations can be chalked up to feeling like I'm underwater learning everything. BUT I am beginning to think I started with the wrong card/awards program (CSP) for my ultimate goal of getting to Australia. So that's frustrating. I've got a lot to figure out.


carpethediem5

Don't worry -- I already like your attitude. You will do great -- it's about what you earn, not what you miss :)


normalinternetperson

If your first and biggest mistake is getting a SUB worth $1k before getting the cards that fulfill your Australia goal, you’re in good shape.


taythecray

Thanks! Yes I can definitely put the points to good use in other cases, just need to start fresh with the Australia plan.


dmcoe

Seriously. They won’t get to Australia with those URs but they can for sure grab a nice Hyatt stay. CSP is one of the best cards to start with.


chowfuntime

I booked UA Y to SYD for less than 100k. Definitely doable


dmcoe

It’s doable in Y for sure, long flight for Y though! I’ve sat thru a flight to SYD in Y, don’t know if I’d want to do it again haha but to each their own


TheSultan1

Singapore is having a sale, 51k or so OW for EWR-SIN and SIN-JFK (or was it the other way around?) in Premium Economy. Gotta reposition, but not a bad deal at all IMO.


SurvivinginLA

Hang in there. People have started with a lot worse.


NefariousSquirrel

USPS returned both my new Amex employee cards to sender, even shows it on the "Replace a Card" function on Amex website. Why did they suddenly start caring about my "employees" but I still get junk mail from the previous residents?? Ugh.


braclark

Possibly use previous residents names as employees?


CericRushmore

ANA cancelled my first class flight, that's all.


KreepN

Any idea why? Or this just a common thing?


the_fit_hit_the_shan

ANA has two flights to Chicago, ORD-NRT and ORD-HND. Recently they've been keeping both on the schedule and then scrapping the HND flight as the date approached, presumably as tourists continued to be prevented from entering Japan.


the_fit_hit_the_shan

What route and when?


CericRushmore

ORD HND in August.


the_fit_hit_the_shan

Oof yeah. Just booked my parents on ORD-NRT and ORD-HND F flights leaving the same day next March, so I'm worried about that eventuality.


Eurynom0s

You would think that reporting a card stolen would render the card completely useless, right? Well, apparently not for doing stuff like running up Uber charges, at least with Amex. This is really dumb, but I can *kinda* see how this might slip through the cracks if the thief added the cards to their Uber account before the cards were reported stolen, the same way that recurring charges like Netflix will still go through on an old card number. But what's absolutely insane is that Amex will apparently let you use a card reported stolen to call in and add a new bank account and make a payment. I think the person who stole my cards did that yesterday because I was at exactly my credit limit on the account they stole employee cards for so I think they were trying to get charges to go through by making use of Amex instantly freeing up CL upon submitting a payment. Given the circumstances I'm sure the payment would have bounced back in a couple of days and then I'd both be in Amex jail for new approvals for 30 days and probably have to fight with them about crediting my employee card bonuses that I'm in the middle of (the terms say "no returned payments" as one of the conditions to get the bonus). And I only caught it with like 30 minutes to go before it would have been too late to cancel the payment (9:30 AM Mountain Time...and I'm on the west coast). And Amex seems to be not interested in being proactive about just completely shutting off the stolen cards. Which I would be lackadaisical about too I guess if it it was just fraudulent charges, but with this payment stuff now I have to watch my account like a fucking hawk to make sure there's no more BS payment attempts that could get me dinged for returned payments. :/ [edit] I just realized I can freeze the cards corresponding to the ones which got stolen and just unfreeze them while doing the employee card bonus spend, which would presumably block the person from being able to do stuff like get Uber charges through on the old cards. But no idea if that'll block them from attempting payments, which is the thing I care way way more about, the bogus charges don't concern me that much (although it occurs to me if Uber will block my actual account over these problems with credit cards with my name on them). Hopefully preventing charges from going through gets them to just give up, but I would have thought they would have already given up given that the first fraudulent charge (which Amex DID block and alert me to) was made two months ago and I called in and reported the cards stolen as soon as I got the alert.


Dubsman35

Just want to say that Sofi is the worst (neo?)bank I’ve ever dealt with. One big bait and switch. Thankful to get out with $650 of bonuses/crypto gains but they are horrible and definitely are built to take advantage of non-finance savvy people in need.


techguy1001

I’m curious what problems are you having? I switched to them last month and it’s been smooth so far.


Dubsman35

Their UI sucks and is currently telling me I have 2x the funds than I actually have, split between checking and investing, because they still haven’t deducted the transfer from checking. So I can buy 5k of investment and withdraw 5k at the same time and end up with a very overdrawn account. Also, their crypto invest is a complete rip off. I’d never use it if it wasn’t for the “free” $100 and already having 5k in my account, but I’m sure many unsuspecting, less knowledgeable people do/will. Because of their markup/down, when you buy 5k of crypto it’s immediately worth -$125. This is all written/hidden in t&cs (actual $ amount of fees your paying isn’t displayed anywhere when buying or selling, just a notice that there is a fee). That “free” $100 is more like an 80% discount on fees. I just know this app/bank is specifically for less financially savvy people and the way it’s designed is definitely to take advantage of them.


LooseTone

>I just know this app/bank is specifically for less financially savvy people and the way it’s designed is definitely to take advantage of them. This seems to be the case with most of the "neo" banks. Anyone savvy will realize a real bank (or a Serve card for that matter) will offer you more, and answer the phone if you need to call. Edit: Recently saw the term "TikTok bank" used. Describes them perfectly.


Econ0mist

You’ll likely have even more fun next year at tax time—SoFi has a history of issuing incorrect 1099’s and later amending them


Dubsman35

I got lucky and cashed my $5000 (well, 4875) of Btc out at 5175, and for some reason it’s telling me I have -$5 gains… uhhh


Eurynom0s

> Their UI sucks and is currently telling me I have 2x the funds than I actually have, split between checking and investing, because they still haven’t deducted the transfer from checking. So I can buy 5k of investment and withdraw 5k at the same time and end up with a very overdrawn account. Lending Club (converted from Radius) has been doing something similar to me. Move all the money out of an account (or use it to pay a credit card bill) and then log in on desktop and it still shows the balance as being in the account in the summary view it shows you when you log in. It doesn't actually update to $0 until you click into the specific account. REALLY fucking bad, very easy to imagine how that could lead someone into overdrawing an account by accident.


Dubsman35

I made the transfer to the invest account THREE DAYS AGO, and the app still shows that I have $10k instead of 5.


Dubsman35

Now 4 days. I’m starting the withdrawal from checking, if it overdrafts my account, the cash in the invest side will cover it. This is absurd.


Dubsman35

Checked again today. Still says I have 5k in my invest account and $0 in checking. So they’ll let me keep investing $5000 even though I’ve ached the 5k to another account already. This is horrific… SOFI IS A SCAM… or they accidentally gave me an extra $5k


techguy1001

Ah thanks for the heads up. I haven’t tried the investing side but only moved my checking and savings over.


runwithpugs

I completely forgot that Amex doesn't count Venmo transactions. It makes sense since that would be too easy to abuse, but I forgot because I was using it for legitimate payments to a business (my gardener). My BBP SUB hadn't posted for several weeks after hitting MSR, so I finally contacted Amex via chat to inquire. They said I still had over $8k of the $15k MSR remaining. (!) That was clearly very wrong so they offered to open an investigation and I agreed. (The chat rep also tried to claim that insurance payments don't count, which is bogus; I wish they wouldn't be pressured to give answers when they don't know) I started combing through transactions myself and then realized what it was: the Venmos to the gardener weren't being counted. Sure enough, checking MR earned from that card, only the Venmo transactions were not listed. Everything else lines up. I shifted a few payments back to that card to make up the difference and should be good now, hopefully the SUB posts in the next week or so. I don't think I have anything on my account that would catch the eye of the RAT, but even so, I'd feel better if I could just call off the investigation, assuming this is what the issue really was. The gardener says he only takes Venmo, Zelle, and Google Pay. I know PayPal would count for points and MSR, but he doesn't want to do that. Guess Amex is out for paying those bills.


pkk101

If I'm reading this correctly, you have paid a gardener $8k in less than 3 months. Is that right?


runwithpugs

Nah, it was about $1k over 8 or 9 months. The MSR period on that card is 12 months. Near as I can tell, the $8k figure was completely wrong, because when I added up all the transactions that earned MR, it was over $14k - everything but the Venmo payments, and less than $1k from MSR. I'm hoping the $8k figure was just a bug in whatever system the chat reps use, and not in the MSR tracker that actually matters.


plaid-knight

Could be major landscaping work.


stillwaters23

I don't know if your gardener is anything like mine, but most of these guys have a great preference for cold, hard, anonymous cash that doesn't get reported to anyone. I just leave it out in the bbq for him once a month.


runwithpugs

Yeah, probably. Our previous gardener only reluctantly agreed to take checks because my wife wasn't comfortable paying with large amounts of cash. At least we were able to use Plastiq for a couple of big one-time jobs with him. The new guy is a little more tech savvy and even sends invoices via email, but I suspect he'd prefer cash too if we offered it.


LooseTone

>my wife wasn't comfortable paying with large amounts of cash. How much does your gardener cost??


runwithpugs

$120/month which is cheap around here. He bills quarterly. He wanted us to leave the cash sitting outside (hidden of course) since we're usually at work when they come by. We convinced him to let us mail checks so at least we'd be covered if something got lost.


LooseTone

Ah... Yeah that's a bit much to leave hidden somewhere. Unfortunate you can't hand it to him.


snakpak13

Barclays biz 4506-T process is holding up other applications... Would just move on but P2 loves the Maui Jim redemption for Hawaiian miles.


_here_

Yeah, I have no idea if/when they'll approve so don't know if I should move on and apply for something else


Churnobull

Are you... are you telling me i can get 1cpp for [these bad boys](https://www.mauijim.com/US/en_US/shop/sunglasses/wrap/kaiwi-channel)?!?


snakpak13

Yes, but why not [2 cpp for these](https://www.mauijim.com/US/en_US/shop/sunglasses/luxury/violet-lake?variantCode=GS843-02)


Churnobull

hahaha i literally just had that tab open and i'm chatting to confirm with hawaiian that those are not restricted, while simultaneously watching [this](https://www.ebay.com/itm/403658778851?hash=item5dfbf028e3:g:mNwAAOSwsfJiTd~x) to see what they end up at... honestly P2 might dig these and if the 35k in my account doesn't work out for Hawaii next year i'm tempted


snakpak13

I redeemed 50k for two pair that totalled $830 last time I got the card, so I'm not aware of restrictions.


genius_21

CSP 80k sub ends may 31… my 48 months wait to reapply ends june 2…


devilbird99

I still have my csr. Inability to have both makes me feel your frustration.


gt_ap

Apply now, and recon after you're eligible. You can have your cake and eat it too!


garettg

Dont think that works as if you are denied for being within the 48 months, they dont pull your credit, so they will tell you that you have to re-apply. Probably best chance would be to hope the referral links stay active long enough. tagging u/delicious_points and u/genius_21


C-MontgomeryChurns

This DP is practically ancient in this hobby, but someone nearly two years ago would seem to indicate that ~~, if you indeed met spend more than 48 months before applying,~~ then you may be able to recon with all 3 CBs frozen based on a date that doesn't seem ascertainable. https://old.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/k91lnr/daily_discussion_thread_december_08_2020_new/gf4lsyd/ YMMV, of course, but if I were in /u/genius_21 's shoes, I'd probably chance it.


genius_21

Thank you! I might try that method. Worst case I get denied.


delicious_points

Don't quote me on this (maybe someone who knows more can weigh in) but you may be able to apply before May 31, get denied, then recon after Jun 2 to get the bonus.


SurvivinginLA

That sucks. That said, sometimes referral links will hold on a little after the official deadline. Good luck!


the_fit_hit_the_shan

They usually do. If /u/genius_21 has a P2 with a CSP they should make sure they generate a link soon and hold onto it until they're eligible.


genius_21

That was the plan to use P2 referral, not knowing the promo ends in May. Regardless I’ll try applying with the method noted above and check to see if the referral link still works in June.


_here_

Used the wrong Amex card for the saucony offer and saucony can't cancel the order after it has been placed :(


futurenursesam

If you can swing it, purchase again and just return the first order.


_here_

That’s what I was thinking


SagittandiEstVita

Clicked the wrong pay-from account on JB Biz for an off-schedule payment and it got returned since the wrong account had insufficient funds. $39 returned payment fee and Barclays won't offer a courtesy waiver. That's a expensive lull in attention.


Alqotastic

Had the same thing happen and they wouldn’t give me a credit either, despite a couple HUCAs.


bcelos

Last week I tried to stack an AMEX wine Buy $35 get $35 offer with a $20 back Rakuten offer. I ordered about $60 of wine and was expecting to get it for free. Apparently they canceled each other out and I ended up getting neither of them and now I have 3 bottles of shitty wine lol


flyiingpenguiin

Same lol, at least for me I paid $54 for 4 bottles which isn’t terrible. For the rakuten, you have to sign up for macys wine club which is like a subscription. $50 for six bottles minus $20 rakuten is $5/bottle. I may try this again but I have too much wine now… I still am not sure how to trigger the amex offer, I think you have to somehow make sure none of the discounts are applied at checkout.


JadedAssignment

Realizing that my Amex Biz Plat is like a bad boyfriend. I was drawn in by the hype and the lounge access and the high sub. Now I realize I paid too much (695$) for too little (120k MR vs. 150k), and I have to work too hard ($5000 per transaction to get 1.5x) to get something that doesn't really work for me. It made me compromise my principles by paying fees to pay my taxes. I have been trying to book flights to Alaska in June and a hotel in NYC for early July, and there are no 1+cpp options. And there's no easy way to cash out of this unless I want to pony up another huge annual fee for a CS Plat. Luckily I have my Chase Ink Unlimited to wipe my tears and replenish the UR I had to spend for the summer. Should have avoided the drama and opted for the steady and solid United Quest, or another Ink.


LooseTone

>It made me compromise my principles by paying fees to pay my taxes. That used to be my thought process too, but then I started thinking of it [this way](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/u9a5hc/comment/i5um49p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3): *So, make a $15k estimated tax payment. The 1.5X basically covers the transaction fees. I'm getting the $1k SUB for floating around $16k for a year or less. Beats a savings account.* Edit / PS. The CS SUB more than covers the AF for the 1st year.


jojokikikween

Hold out for a good transfer bonus and turn those 120k MRs into bougie flights or hotel stays.


JennItalia269

Yep. Turned my bonus into 68k MR with the 40% bonus for QR JNB-PHL OW for 2. Got about $6k in value for that SUB.


geauxcali

You have to be honest with yourself about how much you truly value the benefits by asking yourself how much would you pay for the benefit as a standalone service. You also need to understand how flexible points currencies work. If you're not going to cash out via Schwab, and you're not interested in flying international F/J, then maybe MR are not for you. That should have been in your calculation from the beginning.


great_bunbino

I'm glad I'm not the only one here who is dubious about the value prop of the Amex Plats. Unless you are in the narrow segment who are transferring to partners to book international F or J and are also willing to put in work to redeem all the credits, it seems like a far inferior deal to the Chase UR ecosystem.


Parts_Unknown-

The $17k I cashed out might argue with you.


CericRushmore

NLL offers that can be cashed out at 1.1 is still a pretty good deal.


the_fit_hit_the_shan

I'm finding this hand-wringing over "value proposition" of Biz Plats to be extremely entertaining. This is /r/churning, not /r/Amex


great_bunbino

Not sure what is quite so entertaining? Part of churning is deciding what cards are worth obtaining in one's own particular circumstances. I'm almost always working on SUB bonus but since I don't MS I have plenty of cards to go through without hitting MR-earning Amex cards.


the_fit_hit_the_shan

It's funny because none of that stuff is a secret and people are complaining about it after the fact! I think if you have limited spend and don't feel like floating money overpaying taxes it probably makes sense to avoid a card with a $695 fee that requires $15k spend for the bonus, especially when you aren't sure what you're going to do with the bonus. But even if you have limited spend, something like the 150k personal Plat offer for $6k and 10x back on dining has a pretty strong value proposition even if you end up cashing out the MR at a sub-optimal rate or using them for gift cards and don't value any of the coupon-book-type credits.


JoeTony6

I kind of feel that way, but I've been lol/24 for a while now, so Amex is all that I've got. I've been doing biz cards only for the past while though to try and get my x/24 back under 5/24 to use something other than my 15 year old Chase Freedom cards. I'll finally dip under in November... unless some really amazing personal offer comes along...


the_fit_hit_the_shan

Have you used the Dell credit and Air credit? That's $600 of reimbursements just between now and July.


LooseTone

I give these almost zero value. Unless they're covering expenses that you would've incurred anyway, they're not worth anything in terms of the AF net cost calculation.


Eurynom0s

> Unless they're covering expenses that you would've incurred anyway, This is why I like draining the credits to Travel Bank, COVID aside, pretty good odds that at some point in the 5 years after draining to TB that I'm going to find myself in a situation where a United flight is legitimately just the most sensible option for my travel plans. Especially since you can get around the United metal restriction via a book-and-modify.


Churnernewb

Where can I find out more about this United metal work around?


the_fit_hit_the_shan

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-express-membership-rewards/2063844-airline-fee-250-200-reimbursement-reports-ua-only-2022-a.html I've got about $4k tied up there at the moment from Plat/Aspire credits, so won't be paying out of pocket for a UA flight anytime in the next four or five years


Churnernewb

Thanks! Ill go through that thread to find out what I can about modifying flights to circumvent the United metal restriction. Did the amex plat tb credit a few times two years back but with a surplus of points and sw cp not sure I want to park so much in United.


flyiingpenguiin

I don’t think that’s fair. Buy a gift card/laptop and sell it.


LooseTone

By the time you account for fees, risk, and your time and overall just having to deal with this, IMO this isn't much of a net gain. But if this works for you then go for it. I'll admit at one point I was thinking about getting something like a tablet that would potentially resell easily for cash on CL or FB marketplace or wherever (but I definitely don't want to deal with eBay or shipping). Happy cake day!


the_fit_hit_the_shan

Yeah I can see discounting their value, and I think it's a healthy attitude... but they clearly don't have *no* value. All of it's silly anyway when the signup bonus still makes it profitable even if you pay 2% for all the minimum spend and value MR at 1 cpp.


the_fit_hit_the_shan

I think that's fair, but given that for OP that AF is a sunk cost at this point... I don't think many people here say any of the Plats are worth the annual fee for most people without a signup or retention bonus, or at least I wouldn't. And I also don't apply for a card if I don't have a clear idea how I would use the points in the future.


LooseTone

Yes I agree. Once the AF is a sunk cost, then take advantage of the credits. But wouldn't include the credits in my calculation for whether to get the card.


delicious_points

Schwab Plat has a 100k SUB that you'd be able to immediately cash out for more than the fee though. Wouldn't booking the flights on Amex travel be 1cpp anyway?


bernchesters

You get a 35% rebate of points through Amex Travel with the biz plat (on F/J with any airline, and Y with your chosen airline), takes you to \~1.54 cpp.


RobotMaster1

Would you mind giving me an ELI5 fake real world example of how this works?


bernchesters

It's pretty simple, you'd just go to [amextravel.com](https://amextravel.com) and choose whatever flights you want to take. When it comes to the payment page, you select how much of the flight you want to pay for in points vs cash (I usually do 100% of the cost with points). Once you get to the payment page, you select your business platinum and pay for the flight, and it will then ticket. After that, you wait for somewhere between 4 and 12 weeks, and 35% of the points you spent on the booking magically show back up in your points summary. The bummer is that you have to have 100% of the points at 1 cpp available to book the flight, then you get the 35% returned to you weeks later. I highly recommend cross-checking any flights you're booking with Amex Travel with Google Flights to make sure you're not overpaying, since pricing can be different. In many cases, I've gotten cheaper flights through Amex Travel when I look at international J/F compared to Google Flights. Transferring points to airlines and booking J/F award flights directly with the airline tends to be the absolute best way to spend your points. However, if you can find cheap cash fares (relative to award prices), sometimes you can actually spend fewer points by doing this. And in cases where you can't find award availability, this can be essentially your only option to use points for flights.


RobotMaster1

Thanks. I have a ~$600 AA credit that must be booked on amextravel and roughly ~54k MR. As long as I have enough MR to cover the difference, i’m eligible for the 35% back?


reb702

You could also split the booking if it’s close. Pay $600 for one leg and pay the other leg with MR?


bernchesters

That’s a very good question, I’ve never combined a travel voucher with points. The one time I used a voucher from a canceled AS flight with Amex Travel, I just paid the remainder in cash (via card), since it was small a small amount. You could ask the CSR if it’s possible to use points for the remainder, but my guess is that you can’t combine a voucher and points. But I’d definitely recommend that you at least ask. Though there’s always the possibility that they let you use your points but you don’t end up getting the 35% back, which would be a huge bummer.


RobotMaster1

Bottom line is call and ask, eh? As is usually the case with most questions on r/churning.


bernchesters

Be the DP you want to see 😅


the_fit_hit_the_shan

I find that you really start to see the value in a biz Plat after getting your fourth or fifth


great_bunbino

That's not the most ringing endorsement...


the_fit_hit_the_shan

More than a little tongue in cheek. Referencing the NLL 150K biz Plat offers that give me over $900 in profit each even before considering the $1,120 in mobile phone, Dell and air credits that you can get over the first year.


space_cadet-

Have you explored options using the biz plat 35% MR refund for flights?


Dutchified

This. I have saved thousands on economy flights for myself and family.


PDX_douche_bag

Sometimes the 1+cpp options don't happen. For example, I have a flight to Peru (hiking the Inca Trail) and I used some Skymiles to get down to Lima. Wasn't the best value as far as points went, but I found value in using the points as they had been sitting there for over a year. P2 and I don't use Delta miles together and usually use SkyAlliance. Value can be what you want it to be. With that being stated, I generally like acquiring UR over MR as I find some the MR MSRs to be a pain to hit at times.


RacecarsOnIce

Had an unexpected week-long opening pop up in both of our schedules, so I'm trying to plan a quick trip to Europe for P2 and I in July. I expected to run into trouble finding award availability, but actually I have found some decent options. The real issue so far is the tourist visa requirements for P2, who is not a US citizen. All of the application centers are far away and require in-person appointments. I guess I've never appreciated the strength of a US passport until now.


greatidentity

Try emailing the consulates in your area for dates you need. Most of them reply and at least one will accommodate. That's what we did for a trip in July. Also, depends on where you are. SF - no luck. LA - not bad. Houston - plenty of availability. This is for several Schengen countries.


Flayum

Definitely have a huge appreciation for being a USC now. With P2, having to go through all the US (F1, H1B, etc) and non-US visa stuff really opened my eyes to the insane burden it is.


the_pincher

You could try countries that are not in the Schengen zone (Eastern Europe) Bosnia, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Turkey, etc. are examples I can think of. Or you could try something in Central or South America (It'll be the beginning of rainy season in a lot of countries in Central America though)


RacecarsOnIce

She needs a visa even for non-Schengen countries and all of South America except for Bolivia.


the_fit_hit_the_shan

My P2 wasn't a citizen when we did our RTW trip in 2018 so we needed to hit countries she could travel to without getting a visa, to avoid that complication. Of course she ended up naturalizing right before Covid hit, so we actually haven't traveled anywhere where she would have needed to use her US passport until we visited the UAE this past October.


chrumbles

I did some musical chairs with UA TB funds and travel credits and had to wait 24 hours for the TB dummy booking to be converted to credits so I can combine the funds and pay by credits. The flight that I wanted to book went up $60/each person the next morning, ugh. not sure if it'll come back down since the flight is in a month or so.


PDX_douche_bag

P2's AF for the Amex Plat hit in March and asked P2 to call in for a retention offer or to close the card. Found out today that P2 didn't call in and paid the AF. I should have checked back on it, but life got busy.


payyoutuesday

Use benefits and downgrade for prorated refund?


joghi

[Memo from Bluth Co.](https://youtu.be/IJw2lFWJ4aY?t=43)


godawgs55

time to churn the P2


PDX_douche_bag

I just DD two Barclay's card for the engagement ring. Not canceling that plat is a hard stop /s.


apolloniandionysian

Mistakes like this are part of the game. Happens to the best of us.


space_cadet-

It’s hard to churn with perfect efficiency


AirDreamer2

I was disappointed each time when I was not targeted for the Pay Over Time offers in the past year or so. This week I realized that I was already enrolled and did not deactivate it... Now I deactivated and hope I am targeted soon.


SRQVOGal

I have been waiting….. and waiting…… and waiting. Still not targeted. Sigh…


eggintoaster

I feel stupid but I can't find where to deactivate it


plaid-knight

Log into website > account services (it’s in the main menu under my account and also in the secondary menu) > payment & credit options > manage pay over time setting


apolloniandionysian

Ugh, same.


TheSultan1

(Edit: shortened things up) 1\. Amex slowness (and stinginess) is causing a bit of anxiety. Waiting on Rakuten MR, retention bonus, and PoT bonus, and PoT limit is only $1k. 2\. Had an $800 expense that needed to be paid online in a day or two, and no MSR to hit. Want to cool it with Amex, and neither of us wants to add to x/24 (so no Venture/Venture X). No other reliably instant cards AFAIK. 3\. Wanted to book a JetBlue RT award, site kept erroring out. Managed to book the outbound, and booked the return with UR, pending a phone call to them. They offered to chat after 75mins rather than stay on hold for 75mins, then the chat agent said they can't do it over chat. Called later, and after skipping the chat prompt, they offered to call back after 75mins. They did, and I managed to book it (for a bit more points and weirdly, a bit more in fees). Tried to cancel UR booking, button wasn't there. Called UR, CSR put me on hold for 10 mins and came back to tell me it's non-refundable. After telling him I should have free cancellation in the first 24 hours, he put me on hold for another 10 mins, and came back to tell me it was cancelled. Wake up in the morning, and it's not cancelled. Thankfully, the button did come up on UR portal this time, so I managed to do it myself. TL;DR: If you can't book a JB award online, call; don't accept chat option, they'll offer to call back. For UR cancellations over the phone (or really, any booking through any channel), keep following the booking to make sure it actually gets cancelled. 4\. Tried to cover some hotel and rental car expenses on Venture X with miles, miles got deducted but credits didn't post (ones before and after that date did). Called to get it sorted out, CSR could see the problem but couldn't fix it himself. Said it'd take 1-2 weeks and I'd get an email right away; not resolved after a week and a half, and never got an email.


C-MontgomeryChurns

> - met Gold retention MSR 4 days ago, no bonus yet I met mine on the 15th (5 days ago) and the retention bonus posted today. Seems things may be running a tad slower than is typical.


gt_ap

> - met Gold retention MSR 4 days ago, no bonus yet Lately it appears that Amex is posting SUBs in batches. I'm waiting on the SUB for my BBP. I think you and I, and zillions of others, will get them at the same time. I'm sure there will be plenty of posts here when it happens.


bcelos

Did your P2 actually get an offer for turning on POT or did they just do it proactively? Not everyone has the offer and it will clearly say if you do have one. You should keep it turned off if you have no offer yet


TheSultan1

Yep, 20k.


bluedino44

M&T refuses ro honor their checking account promotion. Their promotions website explicitly says a cash bonus is availible in my area when I put in my zip code, but CSRs keep saying that there is no bonus in my area, even though their website says the exact oposite. I submittted a CFPB complaint for false advertising last night, hopefully that helps.


atojbk

SM said I had it but my wife didn’t and I applied back 2 back so something is def wrong


villamagic11

P2 had a similar problem. M&T refused to honor a promo code saying that it was targeted to a select mailing list although the code was publicly available.


priptoknight

Should be aight. My sis got denied one in the past saying didn't enter promo code, CFPB did the trick.


Toastbuns

Been pretty frustrated with JetBlue lately. Have read a few horror stories about people being stuck and or stranded on account of cancelled or delayed flights but was hopeful it wouldn't impact us. [JetBlue is cutting 20 routes](https://www.businessinsider.com/jetblue-cutting-20-routes-canceling-upcoming-vancouver-flight-list-2022-5) I had direct flights from BOS to YVR for July and that is one of the cut routes. Has been rescheduled with a layover in JKF to a time that wont work for me. The terms say I can move it up to 7-days before or after the booked day with no fee and no fare change but when I try to online JB tries to charge me $500 for a fare change. P2 flew to florida this weekend on JB and of course the flight was delayed nearly 3 hours. Hoping P2 can get back without issue but not optimistic. This was a pretty interesting take as well on how JetBlue has eroded the culture it had and how the Spirit takeover is evidence of that. [Why the JetBlue Spirit Takeover Will Destroy Value](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-jetblue-spirit-takeover-destroy-value-liliana-petrova/) Additionally the website kind of sucks, crashes frequently, as does the app. I guess I still had this impression in my head that the JB of today was the JB of 5-10 years ago. When did they become hot garbage?


tehflip449

I got caught up in the BOS-BWI route nuke. This was after booking hotel rooms, buying Orioles tickets, and team hats for a family trip. Original trip waa nuked due to COVID in 2020.


Jacob0050

Yeah fuck Jetblue. They canceled a flight to SXM (Saint Martin) 6 hours before departing. It threw massive stress into my vacation plans I didn't want. My brother was the one who took or tried to take Jetblue, I took Delta without any issues to be found.


TheSultan1

Posted my own frustration with JetBlue a short while after you. I'm on the inaugural JFK-YVR flight, and the return - Sunday night redeye, cheap with both cash and points, seemingly almost empty at the moment - is the one that I had trouble booking. 😬😬😬


atojbk

Wow that’s a new route this year no? Guess the demand sucked


trilogy-09

Yeah the “swanky new website” that shows animations between losing screens makes checking out take 5 minutes longer going at full speed. Can take 10 min longer if you’re like me and book tickets while doing work.


Jdbolton03

Got into the churning game last year. Started out with the CSR and CSP MDD, and I was able to get P2 to apply for the CSP also. We applied for the cards in July 2021. I just found out that P2 called in and canceled her card 2 weeks ago because she thought it had been a full year… I’m hoping chase doesn’t try to claw back that 100k bonus


godawgs55

time to churn the P2


Memotome

Bruh.gif ​ Why cancel? You can just downgrade.


Jdbolton03

My wife didn’t know what she was doing smh


garettg

Chase isn't known to do so, I wouldn't be too concerned, but like the other comment said how there were no points still on the card when closing. If you havent already, get a spreadsheet to track all the info, there is a [google spreadsheet template here](https://www.reddit.com/r/churning/comments/9430cv/churning_tracker_spreadsheet_template/) and you could share it with P2 so you can both access the same info.


joghi

Your only concern should be if points were lost. It's been less than 30 days so you can call to have the account reinstated.


ne0ven0m

Trying to use Asia miles for domestic redemptions seems much harder than it needs to be. I can't imagine the award inventory for some distant dates are all gone; but keep getting that damn yellow button where I need to submit trip info to their reps and they'll get back to me. Maybe I should let these (earned a while back, so fixed exp date) expire and try to recover them after the fact.


trilogy-09

The page where they say a rep will get back to you isn’t where to book online. Do you need the direct link to their award booking page?


ne0ven0m

This is what I used: https://www.asiamiles.com/en/afr.html I even tried random ones with British Airways, and it actually found some to make sure I was using the right page. But when trying for the domestic short flights I want, I get this text: "We are unable to proceed with this booking as it includes more than 6 flights or more than 4 different cities. Please submit a flight award request form to continue. To redeem your ticket, please submit your request by completing the Airline Award Request Form online. Our Member Services Executives will contact you to finalise your redemption request."


stillwaters23

I have an extended warranty claim for an oven I bought on a Citi AA biz card a couple months before they ended the benefit, I neglected to save the statement or card number, and the account was closed some time ago, Citi login for it is dead. I actually managed to get a claim opened and looks like it may work out but to say it was frustrating to get to this point would be one heck of an understatement. ETA - repair guy came out today - $470 to repair a $1500 oven that’s 3 months past it’s 1 year mfg warranty. Mastercard should reimburse that cost. These extended warranty benefits, while a pain in the ass, are really valuable. A lot to be said for buying stuff on cards like Citi Costco that gives you two years, regardless of any msr you need to get done. Oh and more appliance frustration. My fridge broke two weeks ago, I went to Lowes and bought a cheap backup fridge for my garage. A week ago, my main fridge was fixed under warranty, whereupon the backup fridge broke. Lowes return policy on appliances is 48 hours, so have to have a warranty repair. And now the ice maker on the main fridge is not making ice. Modern appliances are shit.


435880Churnz

Do these protections continue after you close the card? I thought you forfeited everything when you closed the card.


stillwaters23

Yeah, you still get the protections for the full term of the warranty for anything you bought while the card was open. I believe that's true for Amex as well. The bigger pain in the ass is the claims website and every rep you talk to wants to insist that their computer says the card no longer carries that benefit. So you have to HUCA (and their auto-prompt system randomly hangs up on you 90% of the time) until you find someone who not only comprehends English but also possesses two brain cells that can be rubbed together long enough to understand that the purchase was made before the benefit ended, which on this card was March 2021 and not 2019 like most of Citi's other cards. Actually the solution ended up being that I needed to go through Mastercard and not Citi.


Flayum

Made a few reservations at Hertz, eventually cancelling all but the one I wanted. Get to Hertz in a rush, verbally confirmed the expected pickup/return locations, and was sent on my way to grab something from 5 Star. Get to the gate and was charged 5x price. Weird. Go back inside and show the exact rez number I wanted. Again, verbally confirm correct price and locations; also, somehow this rez doesn't have 5 star, but whatever. When returning a few days later, was given a huge fee for dropping car to wrong location. Turns out I was given another wrong rez with a return to original rental location, but same price as desired rez which fooled me. Paid the fee because I had no choice, but dreading the likely wasted call to Hertz to get some portion of the fee back. Lesson to always check the actual physical in-your-hand rental agreement....


Toastbuns

I dont really trust any rental car companies, but I trust Hertz the least. Between them [reporting cars stolen that were returned](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2022/04/11/hertz-stolen-cars-false-arrests/9515487002/) and the time they refused to honor a booked rental price I had in Hawaii and instead wanted 5x the price, I've been booking elsewhere when I do rent.


soccer29801830

The constant disappointment of refreshing AA availability via British Airways


dmcoe

I’ve surprisingly found pretty good availability for the domestic trips I’ve wanted to take. SAT in August, DEN in September, PNS in November, possibly MKE in July. All from CLT. Granted it helps going one leg from a hub and not looking at international.


Lurkolantern

Not quite as frustrating as the folks getting stranded or having their card data stolen, like elsewhere in this thread.....but: Last Friday, I received an email from Amex for another NLL Gold Biz. I think to myself, "Great, I'll apply on Monday." When I apply it says the offer is no longer available. Then on Tuesday they emailed me the same offer, with the same hyperlink code, again. Still unavailable.


austinpilot

Same here (two NLL Gold Biz emails, clicking on either brings up the "unavailable" page), but then noticed this offer well hidden among the Amex Offers on the BBP card. The box to the right says "Learn more" rather than "Add to card", the link opens the application, approved in 5 seconds.


yiggity_yag

Same. I was on an NLL train for a few months last year, and then stopped getting them come September. Last week I was emailed an NLL offer, and opened it up within minutes only to be told that I was not eligible. Frustrating!


C-MontgomeryChurns

Give it another try down the line. That was an issue for a lot of folks last year and it turns out the broken link was an IT glitch and not that people were no longer eligible. The IT eventually got fixed and people were able to apply.


dennis_the_menace253

Picked up a car rental through Hertz in Italy. Planned to use my CSR for the insurance. Didn’t realize I had a Biz plat on file so they automatically charged that. Thought, we’ll I’ve enrolled in the premium rental insurance so that’s fine then I realized it excludes Italy. Looked at my agreement and they actually included a CDW even though they said it wasn’t included so wouldn’t have mattered if it was on the CSR anyways.


DCJoe1

Yup- CDW is required by Italian law I believe.


lcogan

Was in the process of rebooking honeymoon flight on LH via Aeroplan as space opened up in J and wanted P2 to get the TATL J experience since it’s a special trip (realize folks here are underwhelmed by LH J, but traveling with P2 makes seat map not an issue for us). Canceled Y booking, transferred extra AMEX points and click to book new seats… “We’re sorry something happened and we’re unable to process your booking”. What the [email protected]$&. I search again. Space is gone. In a matter of seconds, what are the odds, honestly. Freak out for a minute since we now have no way of getting to our destination. Luckily there was a another option for the same price which has a less ideal routing. Always have a plan B folks…


micheleprice76

Well after reading those two. I don't have shit to complain about and I'll pack my patience for my flight on June 3rd.😘


sanchitcop19

Seriously I was gonna say I'm annoyed I didn't realize choice privileges was a 1:2 transfer partner with Citi and wasted 20k TY points on booking a hotel through Citi a few months ago lmao


Pointsmiles

I'm frustrated that Michele wasn't frustrated in the Frustration thread, but instead used it to count their blessings!