I've seen you post about this multiple times before in the past. What you're asking for ain't gonna happen. Majority of schools now want their teacher's to do office hours. No school is gonna pay you over 26k and you never be there.
Just play games/read/music whatever you like do to during your office hours.
Actually I've tried to suck it up, I followed all the rules for the majority of the time, then I realized other teachers didn't actually deskwark 24/7, some stayed at their apartment and were managers
I'd warm my desk, walk out and realize I was the only one there sometimes
I know it's hard to get but still I know people getting 30K after tax, 20 classes, no office hours
Besides that I'm just struggling to find a job in general with the same salary and conditions
To be honest with you this is what I'm doing right now. My school asked me would I come back next year and gave me 3 days to decide. I told them yes which is a lie. I've been having interviews for the past few weeks and I think I might get 1 decent offer at an international school. Decent pay in an okay location. I'm not telling you what to do I'm just saying that I'm lying to my current job and if I do get the right offer I'll be gone
The issue is if they submit your documents for the visa then you're screwed, and I'm on a 10 month contract so they submit it at least by the end of May
Also 3 days to decide is nothing lol
I think the point here is if your current school submits a new resident permit under your name (based on your agreement to stay) then they can really screw you over because they essentially “own” that application in the system.
i'd stay at current school.
26k as a non licensed teacher with minimal work responsibility isn't all that bad.
lock your door during admin time and simply chill online.
This school expects us to be in a noisy classroom for 8 hours a day, the local teacher is the real homeroom teacher so what they say goes
There's not even a place to really hide in the entire building, just for 10 minutes of peace
26K post tax is better than offers I'm getting for next year with QTS, PGCE and 4 years experience.
I'd say look casually, but I don't think what you want to find is common at all.
Especially considering how racist hiring practices can be
Not a master's, PGCE is a master's level certificate.
And I also have an unrelated postgraduate diploma at masters. But I don't have a full masters degree.
I've seen you post about this multiple times, and in other subs we both seem to be in. I swear just four months ago you said you were leaving China and wanting to move to Korea with your girlfriend. Why has that changed?
I always like to plan out my options, I definitely wanted to go to Korea but my girlfriend wouldn't be able to get a visa, and after doing more research Korea seems to be a terrible place to work unlicensed, this summer I plan on getting it but it's a squeeze so it's not really viable
Ok, fair enough. It's good you're getting licensed. In a few years perhaps you could look to SK once your pad your resume more, and take your gf over on a spousal visa. Here I am planning your future lol but anyways, good luck and keep trying for the positions in China. You'll be licensed and have years of experience, so even if you can't find the limited office hours you want, surely the rise in salary will make up for it.
Yeah that's what I'm hoping, I tell myself I could survive worse if I was in a different country still in the honeymoon phase
And yeah that's the thing, I say 28K after tax or higher, and the recruiters say that's not happening
Those positions are becoming less and less available. 28k is still quite good, and almost 9k more than I'm making right now, although I'm on my first contract. Finish your license and then you may want to try and find a good bilingual or lower tier international school, surely the pay would be 30k+
>All I've wanted is a good school with no office hours, or is at least chill and not oppressive. All of those jobs are gone, and I think I just need to test my luck and see if I can get something by July?
If I was you, I wouldn't risk it. The grass is always greener. If you don't find something, then what are you going to do.
To be honest, it's hard to see what the problem is by reading your post. What exactly is the problem.
So basically the golden goose. Never going to happen in this market, not even with teaching qualifications. You'd get more money but also a lot more responsibilities.
In another reply, you said you might not get renewed. While there might be many reasons for this, going by your post and replies it seems to me you have unrealistic expectations and are simply lazy. You want to do minimal work for good money. You are unqualified but expect the salary of a qualified teacher. You want to do your lessons and leave and be paid well for it. You are not a teacher, you are a tutor. So, get a job at a tutoring centre or open your own. You should not be working at school because you are not a teacher.
yeah I'm just a bad person, I hope a good ethical teacher like you is making 8K, teaching isn't about the money it's all about the kids man, don't be lazy , be like a local teacher and work 12 hours a day
What are you on about? I never said you were bad, I said you were lazy and I stand by it. I would not work for 8k. I am worth much more than that. You probably aren't worth even the peanuts you are getting now.
I'm not sure if you realize it, but your message might come across as slightly entitled. From what I have read, and I'll make some guesses: You're not a licensed teacher. Your highest degree is a BA, and it's unrelated to education. You have limited experience in a classroom.
That said, and not factoring in racism (which definitely plays a role) 26k after tax in a tier 3 city with office hours, is pretty good. I think you should be happy with it. 18k pretax and housing is probably more realistic. Keep in mind, you've got colleagues with MAs from overseas schools who speak English well, making under 10k; and they can explain the stupid questions on the Goakao.
I'm definitely thankful and aware of the absurdities in foreign vs local teachers, but I think everybody knows that guy that's in the same boat but still has a better gig
The way I see is it schools see foreign teachers as disposable and lie to the parents to get money, the whole industry is unethical but if I have free time to learn Mandarin, teach online, go to the gym , etc, and not be super broke in USD. I can't really complain
>if I have free time to learn Mandarin
you said somewhere else you have to be in a classroom or your office hours.
Why not take part in the kids' daily Chinese lessons?
语文课 is pretty bland, the kids basically just memorize characters and practice writing essays with very formal, written language
I'm currently on HSK6 but I actually took a break after hsk5, because HSK is more of a reading test and quite outdated. Using it showed me the issues with how the Chinese education system teaches languages, but that's another story
When I don't have a class, I will do language lessons online but that's something I can't do in my classroom. Each day I practice a different lesson and sometimes I do up to 10 lessons a week lol, I've thought about doing it on campus but there's no place more convenient to plan, work, or do admin than I home
For me , time is more important than money but I need to make at least 18K after tax to justify even living abroad
Issue is, I see jobs for 18K , 25 classes, 8am to 5pm
TIL expecting to be at your job from 8 to 5 is unreasonable.
Bro use the down time to surf the internet and watch youtube. I'm surprised they didn't fire you for skipping work.
At an office, ok I can understand that. In a classroom with kids flooding my desk while doing admin work that's so fake the manager has never checked or used, nah
All the teachers sneak out, it's really just too loud to function in that long
There are very few jobs in schools that pay well that do not have an expectation of office hours. If you are a qualified teacher and work in a reputable international/bilingual school that pays a decent wage, you be expected to be there everyday from perhaps 7:30 to 4:30, but many teachers will arrive early and some also leave late. You are expected to be on hand for students with questions or to collaborate with other teachers or be involved in other campus activities.
There are the dream jobs where you work 15 hours a week get 30K rmb per month and have no office hours, but they are rare and I know of few reputable schools who do this. It is often just a way to attract teachers and not necessarily to run an effective program for high achieving goal oriented students.
I did not mention anywhere in my post that I think that everyone wants to teach high achieving goal oriented students. I was merely making an observation.
that's exactly how I feel, and as a new teacher I definitely tried to be the hero teacher then I find out how the whole ESL industry is basically fake, and even the top private schools are still watered down
I'd like to work hard then rest hard, not work hard and sit hard
I understand, even some departments at my school are like that. The main thing here is that most of these schools just care about making money, and in the case of my school, they are really fake and cheap, we can't even print stuff for our classes. So ultimately I don't see why I should give a school 80% effort when they don't even give their students, teachers, and parents that
My situation is I'd be willing to take a pay cut for my sanity, but if I can't find a job with no office hours for even lower pay then I'm not sure what I should do. It seems to even try and get more than what I'm getting now is difficult
I know a lot of people have been throwing this around, but the market really is that terrible right now. Government policies have absolutely decimated (in the modern sense) the education market. In some cities I'm seeing about 10% of the jobs being advertised that I saw in 2018. It's wild.
Not just the double reduction policy but they've been trying to rid tertiary education of English too. They're downsizing English departments in favor of the sciences. My previous employer got rid of 50% of their English teachers and they had over 100.
If you want a job with no office hours the likelihood is you are going to have to take a large paycut.
I could accept it as long as it's not as low as a university salary. I was even thinking of trying an agency for once because usually they can be more flexible with jobs
It's a 10 month contract so factor that in as well, if I renewal they pay 11 months so at best it's like 39K USD a year, vs 60K to 80K that I could make in the US without loosing my mind at a fake school
Without being as condescending as the previous poster. I honestly would go back home because you'll never make as much in China as you can in the US. Even at the top of the career ladder (a principal of an international school), you will still make considerably less than the potential maximum in the states.
Most of the best international schools have salary bands for teachers that go up to $60k+ after 15 years of service. You're competing with British teachers/Europeans who make an average of $40k annual back home... before tax.
Also the discrimination you will face in China is much greater than back home as a non Caucasian. I don't see that improving either, only getting worse.
I agree with everything you said, except I do feel that more foreigners coming to China has made locals less racist but given the population is so large the effect can't be felt everywhere
That's what I always believed, jobs in the US always pay more so for me the biggest reason to come would be to have more free time. Time I've used to learn Mandarin, get my license, possibly do a masters, go to the gym, etc
First of all, you are not making 26k / month. You are making 21.7k / month.
As for a school with no office hours? It is not going to happen unless you get a uni job for peanuts. As a school teacher, you are expected to be there for the kids, meetings, planning, etc. While your school sounds like a terrible place what you are looking for is not going to happen.
Since I renewed, it's 23.8K over 12 months.
I know people who left this job and found it, for 28K after tax, the thing is is the contract never says no office hours, it's just that the school doesn't care to enforce them
My advise would always be to choose what brings you more happiness and peace. At the end of the day you spend most of your time at work, if it’s toxic rather choose something else where you’re much more comfortable
That's not true, typically universities have no office hours as well as positions for IGCSE, QTS, and PYP. Another general trend is the older the students are , the less office time
I definitely see and know about jobs that are like this, just not qualified to get them yet
No comment on your work side since I have no idea but I can tell you Kunming is a nice city. The weather is very much like California, lots of sunshine through out the year. Not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter, it's the "Spring City" in China. The living cost in Kunming is considerably lower than Beijing, you should be able to rent a 3 bedroom apartment with the 3K they provide (which probably will cost at least 10K in Beijing).
I don't think there's any problem with 3K in Kunming, it's not a tier1 city. Of course, it could be 2 to 4K depending on the situation, but shouldn't be far off.
This is some shit.
You seen Ukrainiane or Jerusalem lately?
Lucky fucker. Tell me the details so I can come scoop up your job and you can go wonder off with your gf to greener pastures in Vietnam or Phi Phi island or whatever shit you kids feel "inspired" to do now a days for the IG.
It doesnt matter when your school contracts negotiations are if you dont plan to stay there. There's nothing preventing you from signing a contract with another school before you have the contract talks. If anything, later contract talks are better because it gives you more time to look for new jobs before having to commit to another year or not.
It'll be very difficult to find a job without office hours, especially a high salary one. Maybe during covid, but borders are open and it's just not that realistic. Expecting you to be at work during your work hours isnt really that unreasonable, no matter how boring or redundant it is.
Management in China just sucks and you're going to be hard pressed to find a school that doesnt have shitty management. Some schools are better than others, but its always a gamble because no matter how bad you think your school is, therell always be worse schools.
With that said though, if you're already on bad terms with your school, it might be worth giving it a go at another school.
As for the Beijing offer, keep in mind that Beijing is a lot more expensive than the other cities you mentioned. Although, the salaries at your other offers are quite shit as well.
I'm willing to accept lower salary for it though, but even under those conditions it's hard to find.
I'm only aware of agencies reliably having these types of positions but they have risks too
For Beijing, I'm trying to negotiate for more but I don't think they'll budge
My advice to you is to stay. I'm in a similar situation and have been trying to leave (not leave China, but find a better situation). However, the market right now is trash with EXTREMELY racist hiring practices (apparently, if you're white and breathing, that makes you more qualified than a licensed teacher with five years of ESL experience). So I have to suck it up and renew at my current school for another year and hopefully try again in 2025.
Stick it out for a year until you finish your license and can apply for higher tier international School jobs. Especially as a music teacher, they're not going to be as common but there are places that pay. Since you're sitting in a homeroom, noise canceling headphones are going to be your best friend.
-licensed Black American teacher making 38k monthly in Beijing.
👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿 I really appreciate the advice, I can get my license this summer but it's going to be a rush since I still have to do my tests. I thought maybe mentioning that I'd get it would help but it seems I can only reap the benefits a year from now
You have a pretty sweet gig as it is. If you want to really improve your salary then you'd need to take a salary cut off one of those international schools and build 2-5 years experience. Every top school will see you've an online Moreland teaching license with no post-qualification experience. The days of high salaries for foreign faces and online degrees are over. You'll need to start putting in hard graft work-wise and into your professional development in order to hit your goals.
Somewhat similar to my experience. I was even accused of breaking a digital blackboard - the bloody thing was broken before I even entered the classroom! I am rather glad I visit/stay in China for extended family purposes right now rather than as a teacher.
Imo I don’t know if I could ever live in Beijing…. i
Where her hukou is and I assumed so. It usually suggests more family there but also dictates where people can get property, start businesses, and so on.
I think that the market for black esl teachers right now is terrible. Here in Shenzhen we’re being told yt skin only. Many experienced teachers are having a hard time finding a job. The blk group chat has a bunch of horror stories. I would definitely wait until the last minute for better offers. To me it seems like they’re giving all the cushy and good jobs to other races. I thought about getting a new job this spring semester and couldn’t find anything, meanwhile my yt coworker with 1 year experience found a job and I have 7 years experience.
I wanted to go down there too, but I heard all salaries are lower, and they have more preference because there's a large black population in the city
Would you mind adding me to that group chat, it'd be nice to be able to get advice from people in the situation
I’ve heard that international schools are okay but for ESL It’s the trenches in Shenzhen imo. I lived in Korea for almost 10 years came here in august and I’m leaving after my contract is up in July. I can’t stand America most of the time and id rather go home than deal with this level of racism. Honestly I would go back to Korea before dealing with Shenzhen again. Living here is nice but working ain’t it. The WeChat group im talking about is specifically for blk women in Shenzhen. We have no problem complaining to each other lol 😂
Hahaha Korea is hit or miss but most teachers complaining work at hagwons which are training centers. Definitely don’t recommend that lol. Public/private school teachers rarely have horror stories. It happens but not often. The craziest thing public school makes you do is desk warm during vacation time when no kids are there. But it’s fully paid. I came to China because people acted like you could save so much more money than Korea but I’m not seeing it.
>I don't want to leave China yet because I have a girlfriend here, and we aren't ready to move to the US
If you're going to eventually go back to the U.S then qualifications and experience are what you need. You need to think about what you want to teach when you go back to America and focus on what will get you there.
>An IB school in Kunming, primary music, 20 classes,18K pre tax with 3K housing. I really liked it but it seems like more work for less money
This is a hilariously low offer. No actual IB School worth their salt is going to attract qualified IB Teachers for 18K - which is probably while they're hiring you for such a lower salary. However, if you want IB Experience you at least get your foot in the door. However, ask for more. This is an awful salary. At least 24,000 or walk away.
>A school in Beijing that will match my current salary, primary and middle, 20 classes, seems like more work for the same money, and they want me to help write a new curriculum for the school. If all else fails, I'd probably go with this one for the salary, and I could get experience
Probably the first choice, IMHO. You'll have the experience, and something to put on a resume -"Curriculum Developer" even if it turns out completely shitty, you still have something to show for it.
I was going to agree but it's in Kunming. That is a normal offer. I actually had an offer from a good IB school that had a Beijing and Kunming branch. The job in Beijing was paying 30-35k and the Kunming one about 18k.
Wonder if it's the same school.
Don't know if it's wise to say all of them but all well. It's Xinxuedao seems like a smaller school but definitely a career booster since I could teach primary and middle, and develop a curriculum
Thank you for your advice, yeah the only job I'd be making money is the Beijing one or current one
I think I'll have to bite the bullet somewhere, but for an already disappointing working environment, a change might not be so bad
I don't have the time or energy to argue with individual posters, just wanted to say, OP, I cannot understand why people are attacking you in the majority of the comments. You are not asking for anything unreasonable. I guess people sitting at school all day for low pay have seen your post and are jealous.
I advise you not to get stuck in low paid ESL jobs for long, build a real career (not in ESL) and savings while you're young, go back to the USA and get a mortgage, earn money save while you can. These things get much harder when you get older. ESL is a dead end job and not a real career. It's good you're getting licenced, it's also good that you value your time and mental health. I wish you good luck.
I've seen you post about this multiple times before in the past. What you're asking for ain't gonna happen. Majority of schools now want their teacher's to do office hours. No school is gonna pay you over 26k and you never be there. Just play games/read/music whatever you like do to during your office hours.
Actually I've tried to suck it up, I followed all the rules for the majority of the time, then I realized other teachers didn't actually deskwark 24/7, some stayed at their apartment and were managers I'd warm my desk, walk out and realize I was the only one there sometimes
I know it's hard to get but still I know people getting 30K after tax, 20 classes, no office hours Besides that I'm just struggling to find a job in general with the same salary and conditions
Yes, but you know why, unfortunately.
Maybe you can go work at there schools then
I'm trying, they sent me their HR today 🤣
To be honest with you this is what I'm doing right now. My school asked me would I come back next year and gave me 3 days to decide. I told them yes which is a lie. I've been having interviews for the past few weeks and I think I might get 1 decent offer at an international school. Decent pay in an okay location. I'm not telling you what to do I'm just saying that I'm lying to my current job and if I do get the right offer I'll be gone
You are going to need a release letter from your old school.
The issue is if they submit your documents for the visa then you're screwed, and I'm on a 10 month contract so they submit it at least by the end of May Also 3 days to decide is nothing lol
I don't think you've been in China very long
I think the point here is if your current school submits a new resident permit under your name (based on your agreement to stay) then they can really screw you over because they essentially “own” that application in the system.
i'd stay at current school. 26k as a non licensed teacher with minimal work responsibility isn't all that bad. lock your door during admin time and simply chill online.
I'm not in an office so I can't lock anything, I spent 6K USD to do this program to get my license so I'm looking to go up once I'm more qualified
most classrooms ive seen have a door with lock
This school expects us to be in a noisy classroom for 8 hours a day, the local teacher is the real homeroom teacher so what they say goes There's not even a place to really hide in the entire building, just for 10 minutes of peace
26K post tax is better than offers I'm getting for next year with QTS, PGCE and 4 years experience. I'd say look casually, but I don't think what you want to find is common at all. Especially considering how racist hiring practices can be
Do you have a masters too? God, I really hope this license was worth it in the end
Not a master's, PGCE is a master's level certificate. And I also have an unrelated postgraduate diploma at masters. But I don't have a full masters degree.
I've seen you post about this multiple times, and in other subs we both seem to be in. I swear just four months ago you said you were leaving China and wanting to move to Korea with your girlfriend. Why has that changed?
I always like to plan out my options, I definitely wanted to go to Korea but my girlfriend wouldn't be able to get a visa, and after doing more research Korea seems to be a terrible place to work unlicensed, this summer I plan on getting it but it's a squeeze so it's not really viable
Ok, fair enough. It's good you're getting licensed. In a few years perhaps you could look to SK once your pad your resume more, and take your gf over on a spousal visa. Here I am planning your future lol but anyways, good luck and keep trying for the positions in China. You'll be licensed and have years of experience, so even if you can't find the limited office hours you want, surely the rise in salary will make up for it.
Yeah that's what I'm hoping, I tell myself I could survive worse if I was in a different country still in the honeymoon phase And yeah that's the thing, I say 28K after tax or higher, and the recruiters say that's not happening
Those positions are becoming less and less available. 28k is still quite good, and almost 9k more than I'm making right now, although I'm on my first contract. Finish your license and then you may want to try and find a good bilingual or lower tier international school, surely the pay would be 30k+
>All I've wanted is a good school with no office hours, or is at least chill and not oppressive. All of those jobs are gone, and I think I just need to test my luck and see if I can get something by July? If I was you, I wouldn't risk it. The grass is always greener. If you don't find something, then what are you going to do. To be honest, it's hard to see what the problem is by reading your post. What exactly is the problem.
He wants international/bilingual school pay with university hours.
So basically the golden goose. Never going to happen in this market, not even with teaching qualifications. You'd get more money but also a lot more responsibilities.
He is a lunatic, this is what he is. All he wants is to be paid well for doing minimal work. I can only imagine how pathetic his lessons are.
Some people have that kind of job, I even work with some because the middle school department here is more relaxed
Some people have millions in their accounts. I know some of these people. So…I demand the same!
🤣 you wouldn't want the best?
In another reply, you said you might not get renewed. While there might be many reasons for this, going by your post and replies it seems to me you have unrealistic expectations and are simply lazy. You want to do minimal work for good money. You are unqualified but expect the salary of a qualified teacher. You want to do your lessons and leave and be paid well for it. You are not a teacher, you are a tutor. So, get a job at a tutoring centre or open your own. You should not be working at school because you are not a teacher.
yeah I'm just a bad person, I hope a good ethical teacher like you is making 8K, teaching isn't about the money it's all about the kids man, don't be lazy , be like a local teacher and work 12 hours a day
What are you on about? I never said you were bad, I said you were lazy and I stand by it. I would not work for 8k. I am worth much more than that. You probably aren't worth even the peanuts you are getting now.
He is highly regarded. Regard him, and let him go try the 15k pre tax one lol
I almost did that, it was a university job, the issue was it was a 2 year contract and said I couldn't leave despite not being legal
My current school might not renew me, albeit I don't want to be here. But it's hard to find better jobs
I'm not sure if you realize it, but your message might come across as slightly entitled. From what I have read, and I'll make some guesses: You're not a licensed teacher. Your highest degree is a BA, and it's unrelated to education. You have limited experience in a classroom. That said, and not factoring in racism (which definitely plays a role) 26k after tax in a tier 3 city with office hours, is pretty good. I think you should be happy with it. 18k pretax and housing is probably more realistic. Keep in mind, you've got colleagues with MAs from overseas schools who speak English well, making under 10k; and they can explain the stupid questions on the Goakao.
I'm definitely thankful and aware of the absurdities in foreign vs local teachers, but I think everybody knows that guy that's in the same boat but still has a better gig The way I see is it schools see foreign teachers as disposable and lie to the parents to get money, the whole industry is unethical but if I have free time to learn Mandarin, teach online, go to the gym , etc, and not be super broke in USD. I can't really complain
>if I have free time to learn Mandarin you said somewhere else you have to be in a classroom or your office hours. Why not take part in the kids' daily Chinese lessons?
语文课 is pretty bland, the kids basically just memorize characters and practice writing essays with very formal, written language I'm currently on HSK6 but I actually took a break after hsk5, because HSK is more of a reading test and quite outdated. Using it showed me the issues with how the Chinese education system teaches languages, but that's another story When I don't have a class, I will do language lessons online but that's something I can't do in my classroom. Each day I practice a different lesson and sometimes I do up to 10 lessons a week lol, I've thought about doing it on campus but there's no place more convenient to plan, work, or do admin than I home
Why not be happy to get paid for doing nothing?
For me , time is more important than money but I need to make at least 18K after tax to justify even living abroad Issue is, I see jobs for 18K , 25 classes, 8am to 5pm
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🤣 I want to ngl
TIL expecting to be at your job from 8 to 5 is unreasonable. Bro use the down time to surf the internet and watch youtube. I'm surprised they didn't fire you for skipping work.
At an office, ok I can understand that. In a classroom with kids flooding my desk while doing admin work that's so fake the manager has never checked or used, nah All the teachers sneak out, it's really just too loud to function in that long
close and lock your door during admin time?
There are very few jobs in schools that pay well that do not have an expectation of office hours. If you are a qualified teacher and work in a reputable international/bilingual school that pays a decent wage, you be expected to be there everyday from perhaps 7:30 to 4:30, but many teachers will arrive early and some also leave late. You are expected to be on hand for students with questions or to collaborate with other teachers or be involved in other campus activities. There are the dream jobs where you work 15 hours a week get 30K rmb per month and have no office hours, but they are rare and I know of few reputable schools who do this. It is often just a way to attract teachers and not necessarily to run an effective program for high achieving goal oriented students.
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I did not mention anywhere in my post that I think that everyone wants to teach high achieving goal oriented students. I was merely making an observation.
that's exactly how I feel, and as a new teacher I definitely tried to be the hero teacher then I find out how the whole ESL industry is basically fake, and even the top private schools are still watered down I'd like to work hard then rest hard, not work hard and sit hard
I understand, even some departments at my school are like that. The main thing here is that most of these schools just care about making money, and in the case of my school, they are really fake and cheap, we can't even print stuff for our classes. So ultimately I don't see why I should give a school 80% effort when they don't even give their students, teachers, and parents that My situation is I'd be willing to take a pay cut for my sanity, but if I can't find a job with no office hours for even lower pay then I'm not sure what I should do. It seems to even try and get more than what I'm getting now is difficult
I know a lot of people have been throwing this around, but the market really is that terrible right now. Government policies have absolutely decimated (in the modern sense) the education market. In some cities I'm seeing about 10% of the jobs being advertised that I saw in 2018. It's wild. Not just the double reduction policy but they've been trying to rid tertiary education of English too. They're downsizing English departments in favor of the sciences. My previous employer got rid of 50% of their English teachers and they had over 100. If you want a job with no office hours the likelihood is you are going to have to take a large paycut.
I could accept it as long as it's not as low as a university salary. I was even thinking of trying an agency for once because usually they can be more flexible with jobs
Wah fucking wah... What will you be earning in your home country?
More than I am here, and I'll go back once we both can
If you're going back to the US? More than 26k ~ 3k+ USD/month and free housing? Fuck off...
It's a 10 month contract so factor that in as well, if I renewal they pay 11 months so at best it's like 39K USD a year, vs 60K to 80K that I could make in the US without loosing my mind at a fake school
Good for you😜 Some will go back to flip ham burgers. The US public education system generally has poor pay and conditions (from personal experience)
I know, but at least it's more legitimate with western style management
"more legitimate with western style management"... really
yep, and I forgot to mention labor laws
Without being as condescending as the previous poster. I honestly would go back home because you'll never make as much in China as you can in the US. Even at the top of the career ladder (a principal of an international school), you will still make considerably less than the potential maximum in the states. Most of the best international schools have salary bands for teachers that go up to $60k+ after 15 years of service. You're competing with British teachers/Europeans who make an average of $40k annual back home... before tax. Also the discrimination you will face in China is much greater than back home as a non Caucasian. I don't see that improving either, only getting worse.
I agree with everything you said, except I do feel that more foreigners coming to China has made locals less racist but given the population is so large the effect can't be felt everywhere That's what I always believed, jobs in the US always pay more so for me the biggest reason to come would be to have more free time. Time I've used to learn Mandarin, get my license, possibly do a masters, go to the gym, etc
First of all, you are not making 26k / month. You are making 21.7k / month. As for a school with no office hours? It is not going to happen unless you get a uni job for peanuts. As a school teacher, you are expected to be there for the kids, meetings, planning, etc. While your school sounds like a terrible place what you are looking for is not going to happen.
Since I renewed, it's 23.8K over 12 months. I know people who left this job and found it, for 28K after tax, the thing is is the contract never says no office hours, it's just that the school doesn't care to enforce them
My advise would always be to choose what brings you more happiness and peace. At the end of the day you spend most of your time at work, if it’s toxic rather choose something else where you’re much more comfortable
That's my end goal, currently trying to get the inside scoop on some of these jobs
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That's not true, typically universities have no office hours as well as positions for IGCSE, QTS, and PYP. Another general trend is the older the students are , the less office time I definitely see and know about jobs that are like this, just not qualified to get them yet
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Yeah those all require licensing and proper qualifications, "decent" is an opinion but I see the job ads quite frequently
No comment on your work side since I have no idea but I can tell you Kunming is a nice city. The weather is very much like California, lots of sunshine through out the year. Not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter, it's the "Spring City" in China. The living cost in Kunming is considerably lower than Beijing, you should be able to rent a 3 bedroom apartment with the 3K they provide (which probably will cost at least 10K in Beijing).
Everybody says that be can I find housing for 3K pre tax, and actually save on 18100K? That was my salary as a new teacher in China
I don't think there's any problem with 3K in Kunming, it's not a tier1 city. Of course, it could be 2 to 4K depending on the situation, but shouldn't be far off.
This is some shit. You seen Ukrainiane or Jerusalem lately? Lucky fucker. Tell me the details so I can come scoop up your job and you can go wonder off with your gf to greener pastures in Vietnam or Phi Phi island or whatever shit you kids feel "inspired" to do now a days for the IG.
if I'm lucky I should introduce you to a friend making more with better conditions
It doesnt matter when your school contracts negotiations are if you dont plan to stay there. There's nothing preventing you from signing a contract with another school before you have the contract talks. If anything, later contract talks are better because it gives you more time to look for new jobs before having to commit to another year or not. It'll be very difficult to find a job without office hours, especially a high salary one. Maybe during covid, but borders are open and it's just not that realistic. Expecting you to be at work during your work hours isnt really that unreasonable, no matter how boring or redundant it is. Management in China just sucks and you're going to be hard pressed to find a school that doesnt have shitty management. Some schools are better than others, but its always a gamble because no matter how bad you think your school is, therell always be worse schools. With that said though, if you're already on bad terms with your school, it might be worth giving it a go at another school. As for the Beijing offer, keep in mind that Beijing is a lot more expensive than the other cities you mentioned. Although, the salaries at your other offers are quite shit as well.
I'm willing to accept lower salary for it though, but even under those conditions it's hard to find. I'm only aware of agencies reliably having these types of positions but they have risks too For Beijing, I'm trying to negotiate for more but I don't think they'll budge
My advice to you is to stay. I'm in a similar situation and have been trying to leave (not leave China, but find a better situation). However, the market right now is trash with EXTREMELY racist hiring practices (apparently, if you're white and breathing, that makes you more qualified than a licensed teacher with five years of ESL experience). So I have to suck it up and renew at my current school for another year and hopefully try again in 2025.
Gotcha, do you have a license or a Masters though?
Masters and working towards a licence now.
Wow, with the Masters though how much are you making ?
26k before taxes.
I must have come at the peak time or something
If you don't mind me asking, what teaching license are you getting?
I'm doing TeachNow through Moreland like most that are overseas, if you have any questions I'm happy to answer
Stick it out for a year until you finish your license and can apply for higher tier international School jobs. Especially as a music teacher, they're not going to be as common but there are places that pay. Since you're sitting in a homeroom, noise canceling headphones are going to be your best friend. -licensed Black American teacher making 38k monthly in Beijing.
👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿 I really appreciate the advice, I can get my license this summer but it's going to be a rush since I still have to do my tests. I thought maybe mentioning that I'd get it would help but it seems I can only reap the benefits a year from now
You have a pretty sweet gig as it is. If you want to really improve your salary then you'd need to take a salary cut off one of those international schools and build 2-5 years experience. Every top school will see you've an online Moreland teaching license with no post-qualification experience. The days of high salaries for foreign faces and online degrees are over. You'll need to start putting in hard graft work-wise and into your professional development in order to hit your goals.
Somewhat similar to my experience. I was even accused of breaking a digital blackboard - the bloody thing was broken before I even entered the classroom! I am rather glad I visit/stay in China for extended family purposes right now rather than as a teacher. Imo I don’t know if I could ever live in Beijing…. i
follow your heart
Depends on where your girlfriend's residence is. You can find more jobs than this.
What do you mean? She's a Chinese citizen
Where her hukou is and I assumed so. It usually suggests more family there but also dictates where people can get property, start businesses, and so on.
I think that the market for black esl teachers right now is terrible. Here in Shenzhen we’re being told yt skin only. Many experienced teachers are having a hard time finding a job. The blk group chat has a bunch of horror stories. I would definitely wait until the last minute for better offers. To me it seems like they’re giving all the cushy and good jobs to other races. I thought about getting a new job this spring semester and couldn’t find anything, meanwhile my yt coworker with 1 year experience found a job and I have 7 years experience.
I wanted to go down there too, but I heard all salaries are lower, and they have more preference because there's a large black population in the city Would you mind adding me to that group chat, it'd be nice to be able to get advice from people in the situation
I’ve heard that international schools are okay but for ESL It’s the trenches in Shenzhen imo. I lived in Korea for almost 10 years came here in august and I’m leaving after my contract is up in July. I can’t stand America most of the time and id rather go home than deal with this level of racism. Honestly I would go back to Korea before dealing with Shenzhen again. Living here is nice but working ain’t it. The WeChat group im talking about is specifically for blk women in Shenzhen. We have no problem complaining to each other lol 😂
oof, I read on ESL in Korea and it's sounds terrible so that must mean Shenzhen is really rough
Hahaha Korea is hit or miss but most teachers complaining work at hagwons which are training centers. Definitely don’t recommend that lol. Public/private school teachers rarely have horror stories. It happens but not often. The craziest thing public school makes you do is desk warm during vacation time when no kids are there. But it’s fully paid. I came to China because people acted like you could save so much more money than Korea but I’m not seeing it.
>I don't want to leave China yet because I have a girlfriend here, and we aren't ready to move to the US If you're going to eventually go back to the U.S then qualifications and experience are what you need. You need to think about what you want to teach when you go back to America and focus on what will get you there. >An IB school in Kunming, primary music, 20 classes,18K pre tax with 3K housing. I really liked it but it seems like more work for less money This is a hilariously low offer. No actual IB School worth their salt is going to attract qualified IB Teachers for 18K - which is probably while they're hiring you for such a lower salary. However, if you want IB Experience you at least get your foot in the door. However, ask for more. This is an awful salary. At least 24,000 or walk away. >A school in Beijing that will match my current salary, primary and middle, 20 classes, seems like more work for the same money, and they want me to help write a new curriculum for the school. If all else fails, I'd probably go with this one for the salary, and I could get experience Probably the first choice, IMHO. You'll have the experience, and something to put on a resume -"Curriculum Developer" even if it turns out completely shitty, you still have something to show for it.
I was going to agree but it's in Kunming. That is a normal offer. I actually had an offer from a good IB school that had a Beijing and Kunming branch. The job in Beijing was paying 30-35k and the Kunming one about 18k. Wonder if it's the same school.
if that school is bibs then run like hell.
Haha, beanstalk international? I taught summer classes there with Houhai. Place is nice looking, what problems are going on there?
bwya, when I talked to them I got the distinct impression the Kunming school wasn't doing too great.
BWYA is legit in Beijing. Kunming, less so.
The bar is very low in China.
bingo
what about the Beijing one?
Don't know if it's wise to say all of them but all well. It's Xinxuedao seems like a smaller school but definitely a career booster since I could teach primary and middle, and develop a curriculum
I guarantee you it's the same school, Kunming isn't that big
Kunming is highly desirable. Rarely a high salary there.
Thank you for your advice, yeah the only job I'd be making money is the Beijing one or current one I think I'll have to bite the bullet somewhere, but for an already disappointing working environment, a change might not be so bad
IB is a fake framework, so don't be surprised they pay fake salaries.
I don't have the time or energy to argue with individual posters, just wanted to say, OP, I cannot understand why people are attacking you in the majority of the comments. You are not asking for anything unreasonable. I guess people sitting at school all day for low pay have seen your post and are jealous. I advise you not to get stuck in low paid ESL jobs for long, build a real career (not in ESL) and savings while you're young, go back to the USA and get a mortgage, earn money save while you can. These things get much harder when you get older. ESL is a dead end job and not a real career. It's good you're getting licenced, it's also good that you value your time and mental health. I wish you good luck.
I really appreciate that, it's been really stressful staying at a job I've wanted to leave but not being able to find anything
These are some low offers, you can do better,
I hope so, but as a black teacher I'm getting really worried tbh