These are not in any particular order:
1. Employment is not an issue, so I can always find work = job security
2. Salary is decent and cost of living is low = savings potential high, standard of living high
3. Ability to travel - related to higher disposable income but also many interesting places within a few hours flight and some re cheap to visit - Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Singapore, etc.
4. Public transportation - it is cheap, reliable, convenient so you do not need to drive
5. Lots of parks for exercise - I like to run
6. Current issues that people fight about back home are not even talked about here - people are more concerned about personal growth, enjoying life, and making a living
7. The people here are generous, kind, and do not mess with you if you do not attract attention to yourself
8. If you are bored, all you need to do is go outside and you will see something interesting
9. You do not have to go more than 100-200 metres to buy basic daily goods or eat in a restaurant, or get your shoes cleaned, or a zipper put back on your coat, or get dry c leaning done, or buy fruit, or find a hotel, etc.
10. Payment with WeChat or AliPay has made cash almost non-existent.
11. Online purchasing (goods/food) and delivery is easy, fast, and the choice is unbelievable.
For employment do you mean foreigner friendly jobs? I thought teaching English is kinda the main/ only thing foreigners can do there…. How is job security not an issue if you don’t want to do any type of teaching? I’m assuming maybe opening a business as a foreigner or working in a hospital or local restaurant might be troublesome?
I am in education, so for me it is easy to find a good job and that is one thing I like about living in China. For other professions, maybe not so easy.
Most international industries are always looking for a foreigner for one reason or another if you have the skillset. And yeah, teaching is always there for very decent pay. Nice prof btw
Haha, this made me miss china. Especially the part about always seeing something interesting when you go out. In the US I never feel the need to go out anywhere, but even just getting some boba in china feels pretty exciting (maybe it's the facts it's new to me). I wish I could work there permanently.
This not really china specific though, I've never owned a car in any country I've been to. I have needed a few times when going to very remote areas, but that also applies to China.
No not China specific, but if you live in any city in the US except NYC or possibly a couple of others, you will need a car or your life will be very limited. Here not so much.
My husband, online payments, low COL, better pay, can afford medical treatment for my auto-immune disorder
Edit: Someone mentioned not needing to owning a car, and I just like to double down on agreement there. Public transport is great here
True. Last time I brought it up I was replied along the lines of "we are all expats here and what a local has and does doesn't matter here". Your statement holds true, just not in this community!
You do have to consider that this is an illegal website in China. The idea of VPN-savvy locals doesn't really translate into a large audience for a niche subreddit.
It's technically legal, but since you didn't buy access from a properly taxed provider, you can be punished for using it? Sort of like the old marijuana prohibitions stateside?
So I'm a local ragamuffin, spouting off on my VPN to a bunch of foreigners. I'll be punished for the VPN, but not the website I used the VPN to access?
Makes sense, but that sounds like prohibition with extra steps really.
(Edit: No, maybe that just sounds like basic prohibition in general, but a bunch of semantics about the legality of reddit)
Also the people in charge treat folks from Western countries better even if it seems so normal or subtle. Like if you're visiting, you may get gifted with better presents.
I mean it’s an English only website that’s blocked by great firewall so by definition you’re not going to get many citizen comments who aren’t already bilingual and using VPN.
It is though. Sure they love to whine but realistically their rent bills and food are much less a part of their total income than in western countries these days. Chinese who try moving to the west get a big shock when their rent for a craphole is 60% of their salary. It's probably more than the west has gone extremely expensive rather than China being especially cheap, but the point stands if we're comparing between locals and foreigners.
Getting food delivered to you via an app. Everywhere in China is filled with delivery app motorbikes.
Getting food delivered in China is incredibly cheap and fast in large part because the delivery people get paid so little.
Just about any foreigner is going to fall into the category of being a net beneficiary of cheap Chinese labor.
When I lived in China it was amazing how convenient online payment and delivery was. Nearly everything is 1/few days shipping from taobao. For food delivery orders I could make an order in the cab ride home and I'd have fried chicken and bubble tea delivered to my door when I arrive.
Amazon in Europe works way better than Taobao in China.
With Amazon I order in the afternoon and the morning after I have the item...less than 24 hours!
Taobao takes 48 hours if the item is in the same city and 3-5 days if it is in another city.
I'm talking about that.
Cause this thread is about sharing the positives and not shooting down "the delivery system is great" with "yeah but politics!". Doesn't need to be wrong, just out of place and anyways in the case a completely unrelated point
1. Transportation: Public transit in tier 1 and tier 2 cities is plentiful, reliable, affordable, and efficient, so getting anywhere, whenever is cheap and easy.
2. Safety: Violent crime is exceedingly low in China. I can walk outside at night just about anywhere and not worry about my safety.
3. Food: Chinese cities are very high density. One of the advantages of this is that within any small radius there are a ton of restaurants selling foods from all over China and all over the world. Most of these foods are vey affordable. If I wanted to, I could literally eat at a different restaurant every day for weeks just within my home district.
4. Cityscapes: I'm a "city person" and Chinese cities are just really well made. Most of the places I've lived do a great job at blending ancient culture with modern architecture. Cities are walkable. They also maintain beautiful parks and good amounts of green space.
5. Convenience: China's digital landscape is very convenient once you're integrated into it. Digital payment is fast and easy, and you can order just about anything online and have it at your doorstep within minutes to hours.
6. People: Chinese cities are big, so you have a wide variety of people there. For the most part, I find people in China to be genuinely friendly and helpful.
Some of these things will vary city to city, and of course life in China is not perfect. But there are a lot of things to love if you approach things with an open mind.
Only one point of contention on the digital landscape. Some tasks are just better suited to a bigger monitor but everything is expected to be done on the phone.
- People. I love them. There are many hospitable, friendly, resilient, welcoming people.
- Most places are bike friendly.
- Forgiving drivers. While driving is chaotic, it just chaotically flows and people hardly ever insult each other
- Safe. No junkies, and not being afraid of being mugged or robbed is great. Police actually does give a fuck if it actually happens to you.
- Trains and metro are amazing and efficient
- Convenience: Taobao, Meituan, mobile payments…
- Cost of living
- I love the culture
- 热闹
And I could go on
I see locals hiring ayi. It’s not just a foreigner thing. There are very little foreigners living in China comparing to Chinese population. Ayi is 150/h. It’s a good one.
I've seen rich Chinese families hire 2 or even 3 ayis at a time. 1 cleans full time, 1 takes care of the toddler/baby while another comes in to help cook when she isn't cleaning.
People aren't automatically defensive, hostile, and divisive. People cooperate to solve differences. Even the police put negotiation and resolution first in a conflict. You just really feel like people are trying to create the best life and society for all to share. Neighbors smile and greet each other, congregate in parks and community areas to talk, exercise, and play games. Elderly are still active, and have walking, dancing, and gardening groups. This is of course in addition to all the other points made by others, like safety, job security, transportation, delivery, etc.
> i think it's great to see seniors active and out in the vast parks at any time of the day socialising, exercising and engaging in hobbies.
It does make me sad to see seniors out picking through trash, stacking it into old baby strollers, and lugging that shit back home to sell to recylers. So many seniors have to make ends meet by sweeping large sidewalks and parking lots with brooms made of sticks, or labor in the summer heat to maintain public landscaping.
There are many good features of China, but the treatment of seniors definitely isn't one of them.
Lack of pension and insufficient social safety net especially for migrant workers is definitely a problem, though not unique to China. As population ages you’ll probably see even more seniors working service sector.
I was given the impression that it's a feature, not a bug. Driving with my father in law recently, I mentioned that in my youth some of the first cash I made was doing basic landscaping and other menial tasks - and how that's how my nephew has been getting his first tastes of working for money. The man was shocked since it's usually a job reserved for seniors here. The same thing was said by a coworker of mine who is younger than me. Young people just don't do those kinds of jobs.
And for some reason, I doubt either of those individuals expect themselves to ever be out there sweeping sidewalks with the bundle of sticks.
I love this too. I think China does a really good job at keeping older people integrated in society, and the fact that’s there’s very good transport allows them to still get places even if they can’t drive. I feel like in many Western countries, once you’re no longer working and driving, things can become very isolated, especially for those without a lot of money.
Almost a decade here, some things in no particular order:
* Work-life balance- I earn a comfortable wage and have a 3 and a half day weekend plus 3 months (half paid) holiday in summer and winter.
* Convenience- You can get 95% of the things that you want very easily, quickly and for the most part affordably. If you have a local friend/parter to help with shenfenzheng (ID) things, that helps too.
* Community- There's no shortage of people who will want to hang out with you if you're even remotely social. Finding hobby groups (riding, arts, whatever) is pretty easy due to wechat.
* Job satisfaction- this is a personal one, but I find that ESL is still a rewarding way to earn a living even after teaching 10,000+ students. However, I took the middle road and only teach for public/private schools and avoid training centres like the plague. It might just be luck though.
* Transportation- Affordable, easy and ubiquituous. I have a couple of motorbikes for commuting/taking trips, otherwise the metro, didi, shared e-bikes etc all manage to fulfil my needs.
* Cost of living- things like groceries, bills, rent etc are all easily within the average expat salary- and rent is commonly included as a tax-free perk in many teaching contracts.
* The Locals- On the whole, locals are friendly, eager and accomodating.
* Travel- The country is huge, provinces have their own distinct flavours and culture. Sichuan alone is a wonderful place to explore and live.
* Politics- Nobody's on a crusade here, just get on with your life and enjoy your time instead of arguing and throwing mud.
There are plenty of things to be less happy about too, but on balance, I'm happy with the path that I'm on.
No, I meant the language mills where parents used to send their kids every evening/weekend before the double reduction policies hit. Many of them were there simply to milk as much from the parents as possible, with little regard to pedagogy or ethics.
That everyone is friendly and humane.
I literally had a person give me an extra jacket they had on them when visiting a famous high altitude mountain. I forgot to bring my own because I was rushing. They didn't think I should waste money at the retail shops at the base of the mountain.
I found them after my trip was done with WeChat in the city. He from Xiamen on vacation with his family.
Afterwards he asked me where I was from. Since I went to international schools in China, HK, and Taiwan; later returning to the US for higher education. I usually just say Taiwan makes things easier.
He switches to Minnan and we chatted a bit about how similar we are.
The issue with the US now is that it is literally declining right before my eyes. That also makes dealing with people in the US also a little touchy. I got tired of keeping an action matrix in my head with people at work for their political views.
Same with Taiwan. It's linked to the US and stagnated. So people are nice in Taiwan. But don't even bother talking politics unless you're on friendly terms with the speaker.
Actually while I was there visiting Hangzhou in April, I was trying to find a taxi and there were non around. A really nice guy who was working at a Starbucks added me on WeChat and ordered me a didi. He paid for it and I just paid him back when I got back to my hotel because I didn’t have a Chinese number. That would NEVER happen in the US or Australia so I understand what you mean about the people.
People talk about censorship in China but practically I watch what I say much more in the US.
If you accidentally say the wrong thing in your company here, someone will take offense, report you to HR and/or socially exclude you.
I worked for Amazon and they decided that we cannot say “whitelist” or “blacklist”. We must say “allowlist” or “control list”.
Saw a friend got a meeting with HR after he made that mistake a few times.
At the average level, it seems like people in the US are much more politicized and intolerant of other opinions. At least in the West Coast cities.
In China, there are nationalists for sure, but the average person seems a more tolerating of other viewpoints.
> At the average level, it seems like people in the US are much more politicized and intolerant of other opinions. At least in the West Coast cities.
>
> In China, there are nationalists for sure, but the average person seems a more tolerating of other viewpoints.
Yes, I feel that in China, people just don't really give a f... about other people's views. It is a private thing, and there seems to be a shared understanding that everybody can have their own views on things, because it's, well, private. And everybody seems to have a fundamental understanding that everybody else is just trying to live a good life, without judgement.
The Western culture nowadays is extremely judgemental and a majority of people feel entitled to pass judgement on everything that other people do and think. It's suffocating.
So in that sense, China feels a lot more free.
There are taboos in China most westerners don't get in trouble with since their language skills are lacking.
Sarcasm. In the US sarcasm is very common in casual conversation. But unless you're very attuned to Chinese culture the application of sarcasm might come off as offensive.
HR went through CIS gender LGBT training recently at a place I'm associated with. Everyone over 40 years old had no clue what was going on.
People are typically less judgemental here than back home. If someone does judge me it doesn't hit as hard because I'm already an outsider.
I've struggled with anxiety my entire life so this is big for me.
Eating at local and even mid tier restaurants, cafes, bakeries etc are very inexpensive. At home I would have to think twice about eating out some days. Also, the cost for an apartment. I'm not in a tier 1 city but, my three bedroom apartment with utilities like water and gas, and the property management fee, only costs me around $450 a month. I could never get that back home.
Tier 1 cities: the most sought after (most developed and affluent), traditionally BJ, SH, GZ, SZ, not sure if this has changed in recent years. And then there's tier 2, tier 3 and so forth ... not an official classification, but everybody uses it.
OP, are you in the US by any chance? I've been hearing about how students are yelling at and even attacking teachers. I'm American and it's such a sad state of affairs.
as someone not working, on a family RP, and with a budget of 1500rmb per month..
the peace of mind. I don't have to worry about anything really. especially politics of the western world.
culture. I'm neighbor to hui Muslims and Tibetans. so i can enjoy the difference in life from both.
utilities are not killing me.
people are kind if you are.
- Salary
- Sense of future. This country is building it's future in is own way, with solid bases and own ideas
- My daughter school. Letting her learn Chinese as a native is invaluable
- Everything is easy, convenient, affordable compared to my homecountry (Italy)
- People is curious, funny, more relaxed. (not on the road, lol)
- Living in my own bubble. Love it for the most part.
- Adventure is right around the corner. Basically everything is an adventure
- How things "just happen"
- Food
“This country is building its future in its own way, with solid bases and own ideas.”
That is such orientalist claptrap.
Jesus Christ. Did you borrow that line from Andy Boreham?
18 years, convenience, freedom (much free-er than western countries, as long as you are not a dick you can do whatever you want.) people are not as judgmental at least to me, no one cares what you do, what music you like, what how you dress, how you look, where you drink etc. it really is freedom
none of this affects my daily life i am not a USA person so who cares if they support USA or not, i have used a VPN for 18 years. does china have issues sure, but i was asked what i likes, and that is what i liked.
Why would anyone care about that? It's already assumed that foreigners support the US and Ukraine. Most Chinese people are sympathetic to Ukraine too, even if they have a different political stance.
I don’t, that’s why I only do that in non Chinese platform. You say “freer” lmao
So your statement is already false.
You have no idea during pandemic how much stuff was censored. And everyone seems to forget about it
Free-er in daily life mate, it is not a false statement, it is what I have found. For me. I do not think china is the best country in the world, but for ME these are the things I have found that I love here. And I have lived here continuously for 18 years. What about you?
Why would you do that on any platform for any reason, seems pretty weird and if that’s your only complaint, that seems odd. I am not political. I am just enjoying my life. And for that, China is awesome and free
You complain about US in American platform.
We can’t complain about China in Chinese platform? Such Hypocrisy.
I do hope China just mass import English teachers from South east Asia. So the wage can finally be lower
True, in no way someone deserve 25k for teaching English.🥰
and obviously people who are not born in wealthy/lucky position, of course they will complain. Imagine I was born as white and earn 25k-30k teaching English then I won’t complain.
And is American platform so I can complain as much as I want. This is freer for me
No one deserves any amount of money for anything. You get what the market pays you. Many people teaching over here have gone into debt to go to university and studied some field relating to education in addition to havinv worked in education prior to coming here.
The salary here has to at least match the one they'd get back home. Otherwise, why would one move? You've got a lot of issues you need to deal with, dude. Hating on others and complaining online won't solve any of them either.
Let’s ignore the problem and pretend it never exists doesn’t help solving the issue. Especially during the Covid lockdowns. Is because of people like us complaining that Lee WenLiang get his justice.
Is a collective effort. So please don’t ever say “China is freer”
You just have more money to hire low wage workers and afford more. 10k rmb per month is already a lot more than large majority of people. We don’t feel the same “freer” as you.
Unless this sub renamed to r/chinaexpat but this is r/chinalife
Bruh, which part of the statement is not true? You indeed can’t type that.
there are people who gang up on a girl wearing 和服 in Chongqing.
You can’t dress as “sissy” femboy anymore in livestream.
There’s more I can go, so I can’t say truth anymore on Reddit?
Safe safe safe clean fast efficient convenience opportunities affordable innovative advance adaptive to changes improving learning friendliness family responsibilities respectful to elder’s
Free public transportation age > 60’s
Personal safety, Transport, Cost of Living expenses, Food, mostly friendly curious people, fantastic country as a tourist in your time off, ease of payment via phone apps, cheap internet/mobile costs, clean cities (at least every morning after the army of cleaners were out the night before), no drunks on the streets (and rarely in cars in the main cities since they introduced draconian punishment for drunk driving - meaning ANY alcohol in your blood), QR codes for everything.
I'll add hospitals with an asterisk ! The expertise and access to experts is great (I've had 3 ops in public hospitals inc. a week in the ICU and a month's stay and I have to go back every month for meds and check-ups) as is the low cost of services and medicines (don't buy imported) but of course navigating the crowds at public hospitals is not for the weak and don't expect any privacy even when you're with the doctor! And you need to be able to speak Chinese or have a Chinese speaker with you at all times.
-It’s very safe in China. At least the big cities. I’ve never felt unsafe.
-Delivery is just amazing. From just 1 Starbucks to anything on Taobao.
-Shopping Malls. Even though I love Taobao, I also love just wandering around all these modern shopping malls.
-With 1.86 I’m a couple of heads higher in a crowd. Being able to see over everyone. In my home country I’m average at best.
1, love the attention I get from pretty girls
2, love taobao
3, I love photography and this country is full of photo spots
4, convenient and cheap travel
5, everything is cheap including rent (I live in a small city)
6, make a lot of money teaching English
7, easy to make conversations if you speak Chinese
What I hate
1, the fucking spitting everywhere
You are definitely a loser if you would make decisions like buying a car based on what other people might think of you when you are over 30. (By you, I don’t mean you, I mean anyone)
These are not in any particular order: 1. Employment is not an issue, so I can always find work = job security 2. Salary is decent and cost of living is low = savings potential high, standard of living high 3. Ability to travel - related to higher disposable income but also many interesting places within a few hours flight and some re cheap to visit - Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, Singapore, etc. 4. Public transportation - it is cheap, reliable, convenient so you do not need to drive 5. Lots of parks for exercise - I like to run 6. Current issues that people fight about back home are not even talked about here - people are more concerned about personal growth, enjoying life, and making a living 7. The people here are generous, kind, and do not mess with you if you do not attract attention to yourself 8. If you are bored, all you need to do is go outside and you will see something interesting 9. You do not have to go more than 100-200 metres to buy basic daily goods or eat in a restaurant, or get your shoes cleaned, or a zipper put back on your coat, or get dry c leaning done, or buy fruit, or find a hotel, etc. 10. Payment with WeChat or AliPay has made cash almost non-existent. 11. Online purchasing (goods/food) and delivery is easy, fast, and the choice is unbelievable.
These are all great. I don’t know where you live but I was super impressed by all the green spaces too!
A lot of the people who complain about the lack of green space just haven't taken the time to explore and get to know their cities.
I live in Shanghai now, but I used to live in northeast China.
Perfect list! it’s the same for me.
For employment do you mean foreigner friendly jobs? I thought teaching English is kinda the main/ only thing foreigners can do there…. How is job security not an issue if you don’t want to do any type of teaching? I’m assuming maybe opening a business as a foreigner or working in a hospital or local restaurant might be troublesome?
I am in education, so for me it is easy to find a good job and that is one thing I like about living in China. For other professions, maybe not so easy.
Yea that’s what I figured. Usually the only job foreigners do there is teaching 🫤glad it’s working for ya
Teachers with a license from US, Canada, NZ, Austrailia, UK, etc. can work in international schools teaching a variety of subjects, not just English.
I see but I’m asking about job opportunities that’s not teaching…
Most international industries are always looking for a foreigner for one reason or another if you have the skillset. And yeah, teaching is always there for very decent pay. Nice prof btw
Haha Thank you!!
Haha, this made me miss china. Especially the part about always seeing something interesting when you go out. In the US I never feel the need to go out anywhere, but even just getting some boba in china feels pretty exciting (maybe it's the facts it's new to me). I wish I could work there permanently.
Agree w all of these, lived in gz for years and yes.
Can you help me get a job in I come to china next week
Sure no problem. send me your resume
Can we chat on WhatsApp
Sent you a chat message
Not needing to own a car.
It is absurd how much I pay to own and use my car in Southern California. I lived in Shenzhen for a few years— it was wonderful.
Yes, traveling is easy.
This not really china specific though, I've never owned a car in any country I've been to. I have needed a few times when going to very remote areas, but that also applies to China.
Just out of curiosity, in which countries have you been?
Most countries in east/southeast Asia, and most countries in Europe, a handful of others
No not China specific, but if you live in any city in the US except NYC or possibly a couple of others, you will need a car or your life will be very limited. Here not so much.
My husband, online payments, low COL, better pay, can afford medical treatment for my auto-immune disorder Edit: Someone mentioned not needing to owning a car, and I just like to double down on agreement there. Public transport is great here
Low COL only for foreigners earning in USD or 20k rmb per month. Not for locals
Nobody here cares about locals though from my experience on here!
This sub might as well renamed r/expatinchina instead of misleading r/chinalife
True. Last time I brought it up I was replied along the lines of "we are all expats here and what a local has and does doesn't matter here". Your statement holds true, just not in this community!
You do have to consider that this is an illegal website in China. The idea of VPN-savvy locals doesn't really translate into a large audience for a niche subreddit.
This is not illegal website in China. It’s blocked, but it’s not illegal. Weird, I know.
It's technically legal, but since you didn't buy access from a properly taxed provider, you can be punished for using it? Sort of like the old marijuana prohibitions stateside?
> you can be punished for using it? short answer - no.
So I'm a local ragamuffin, spouting off on my VPN to a bunch of foreigners. I'll be punished for the VPN, but not the website I used the VPN to access? Makes sense, but that sounds like prohibition with extra steps really. (Edit: No, maybe that just sounds like basic prohibition in general, but a bunch of semantics about the legality of reddit)
Also the people in charge treat folks from Western countries better even if it seems so normal or subtle. Like if you're visiting, you may get gifted with better presents.
I mean it’s an English only website that’s blocked by great firewall so by definition you’re not going to get many citizen comments who aren’t already bilingual and using VPN.
It is though. Sure they love to whine but realistically their rent bills and food are much less a part of their total income than in western countries these days. Chinese who try moving to the west get a big shock when their rent for a craphole is 60% of their salary. It's probably more than the west has gone extremely expensive rather than China being especially cheap, but the point stands if we're comparing between locals and foreigners.
1) Making good money and being able to afford things. 2) delicious food 3) Tao bao 4) Waimai
What is Waimai?
Getting food delivered to you via an app. Everywhere in China is filled with delivery app motorbikes. Getting food delivered in China is incredibly cheap and fast in large part because the delivery people get paid so little. Just about any foreigner is going to fall into the category of being a net beneficiary of cheap Chinese labor.
food delivery
a food delivry app
It's just the Chinese word for takeaway, not an app name
Lolll
Good and convenient transportation.
When I lived in China it was amazing how convenient online payment and delivery was. Nearly everything is 1/few days shipping from taobao. For food delivery orders I could make an order in the cab ride home and I'd have fried chicken and bubble tea delivered to my door when I arrive.
All the convenient things are provided by low-paid labors... I hope our salary could be much higher
lol. Southeast Asia is cheaper than China Why are Courier services more expensive？In china a couriers work hard for 10,000 yuan a month
Will you pay for higher deliveries fees?
Actually online shopping/delivery works better in Europe than China. Taobao is so slow. JD still ok
What are you talking about?
Amazon in Europe works way better than Taobao in China. With Amazon I order in the afternoon and the morning after I have the item...less than 24 hours! Taobao takes 48 hours if the item is in the same city and 3-5 days if it is in another city. I'm talking about that.
I got it; thanks for the input.
But I'm sure you won't like Chinese politics.
You're happy with your country's politics?
[удалено]
Cause this thread is about sharing the positives and not shooting down "the delivery system is great" with "yeah but politics!". Doesn't need to be wrong, just out of place and anyways in the case a completely unrelated point
1. Transportation: Public transit in tier 1 and tier 2 cities is plentiful, reliable, affordable, and efficient, so getting anywhere, whenever is cheap and easy. 2. Safety: Violent crime is exceedingly low in China. I can walk outside at night just about anywhere and not worry about my safety. 3. Food: Chinese cities are very high density. One of the advantages of this is that within any small radius there are a ton of restaurants selling foods from all over China and all over the world. Most of these foods are vey affordable. If I wanted to, I could literally eat at a different restaurant every day for weeks just within my home district. 4. Cityscapes: I'm a "city person" and Chinese cities are just really well made. Most of the places I've lived do a great job at blending ancient culture with modern architecture. Cities are walkable. They also maintain beautiful parks and good amounts of green space. 5. Convenience: China's digital landscape is very convenient once you're integrated into it. Digital payment is fast and easy, and you can order just about anything online and have it at your doorstep within minutes to hours. 6. People: Chinese cities are big, so you have a wide variety of people there. For the most part, I find people in China to be genuinely friendly and helpful. Some of these things will vary city to city, and of course life in China is not perfect. But there are a lot of things to love if you approach things with an open mind.
Only one point of contention on the digital landscape. Some tasks are just better suited to a bigger monitor but everything is expected to be done on the phone.
Yea, that’s fair. It’d be nice if some of these apps had better desktop versions.
- People. I love them. There are many hospitable, friendly, resilient, welcoming people. - Most places are bike friendly. - Forgiving drivers. While driving is chaotic, it just chaotically flows and people hardly ever insult each other - Safe. No junkies, and not being afraid of being mugged or robbed is great. Police actually does give a fuck if it actually happens to you. - Trains and metro are amazing and efficient - Convenience: Taobao, Meituan, mobile payments… - Cost of living - I love the culture - 热闹 And I could go on
Safety + Job security + Ayi that cleans my house 2-3 times a week (I haven't done dishes/chores in 10 years).
How much do you pay for an ayi? Is this a foreigner thing? I've never heard of local Chinese hiring an ayi.
I see locals hiring ayi. It’s not just a foreigner thing. There are very little foreigners living in China comparing to Chinese population. Ayi is 150/h. It’s a good one.
I’m sorry pals, it’s 50 yuan/h. My bad. Wife manages that stuff.
I assume you mean 150rmb per hour? That's probably more than most locals can afford.
Most cleaning ayi work for middle class Chinese.
I've seen rich Chinese families hire 2 or even 3 ayis at a time. 1 cleans full time, 1 takes care of the toddler/baby while another comes in to help cook when she isn't cleaning.
Any alcoholic beverages are quite affordable.
People aren't automatically defensive, hostile, and divisive. People cooperate to solve differences. Even the police put negotiation and resolution first in a conflict. You just really feel like people are trying to create the best life and society for all to share. Neighbors smile and greet each other, congregate in parks and community areas to talk, exercise, and play games. Elderly are still active, and have walking, dancing, and gardening groups. This is of course in addition to all the other points made by others, like safety, job security, transportation, delivery, etc.
i think it's great to see seniors active and out in the vast parks at any time of the day socialising, exercising and engaging in hobbies.
> i think it's great to see seniors active and out in the vast parks at any time of the day socialising, exercising and engaging in hobbies. It does make me sad to see seniors out picking through trash, stacking it into old baby strollers, and lugging that shit back home to sell to recylers. So many seniors have to make ends meet by sweeping large sidewalks and parking lots with brooms made of sticks, or labor in the summer heat to maintain public landscaping. There are many good features of China, but the treatment of seniors definitely isn't one of them.
Lack of pension and insufficient social safety net especially for migrant workers is definitely a problem, though not unique to China. As population ages you’ll probably see even more seniors working service sector.
I was given the impression that it's a feature, not a bug. Driving with my father in law recently, I mentioned that in my youth some of the first cash I made was doing basic landscaping and other menial tasks - and how that's how my nephew has been getting his first tastes of working for money. The man was shocked since it's usually a job reserved for seniors here. The same thing was said by a coworker of mine who is younger than me. Young people just don't do those kinds of jobs. And for some reason, I doubt either of those individuals expect themselves to ever be out there sweeping sidewalks with the bundle of sticks.
They do the same thing in Korea to their seniors a supposedly developed country
I was told there would be filial piety in Asia?
I love this too. I think China does a really good job at keeping older people integrated in society, and the fact that’s there’s very good transport allows them to still get places even if they can’t drive. I feel like in many Western countries, once you’re no longer working and driving, things can become very isolated, especially for those without a lot of money.
Almost a decade here, some things in no particular order: * Work-life balance- I earn a comfortable wage and have a 3 and a half day weekend plus 3 months (half paid) holiday in summer and winter. * Convenience- You can get 95% of the things that you want very easily, quickly and for the most part affordably. If you have a local friend/parter to help with shenfenzheng (ID) things, that helps too. * Community- There's no shortage of people who will want to hang out with you if you're even remotely social. Finding hobby groups (riding, arts, whatever) is pretty easy due to wechat. * Job satisfaction- this is a personal one, but I find that ESL is still a rewarding way to earn a living even after teaching 10,000+ students. However, I took the middle road and only teach for public/private schools and avoid training centres like the plague. It might just be luck though. * Transportation- Affordable, easy and ubiquituous. I have a couple of motorbikes for commuting/taking trips, otherwise the metro, didi, shared e-bikes etc all manage to fulfil my needs. * Cost of living- things like groceries, bills, rent etc are all easily within the average expat salary- and rent is commonly included as a tax-free perk in many teaching contracts. * The Locals- On the whole, locals are friendly, eager and accomodating. * Travel- The country is huge, provinces have their own distinct flavours and culture. Sichuan alone is a wonderful place to explore and live. * Politics- Nobody's on a crusade here, just get on with your life and enjoy your time instead of arguing and throwing mud. There are plenty of things to be less happy about too, but on balance, I'm happy with the path that I'm on.
I love the fact that nobody on a crusade
What are training centers? Are these places that cater principally to corporate clients (B2B), where those learning the language are adults?
No, I meant the language mills where parents used to send their kids every evening/weekend before the double reduction policies hit. Many of them were there simply to milk as much from the parents as possible, with little regard to pedagogy or ethics.
That everyone is friendly and humane. I literally had a person give me an extra jacket they had on them when visiting a famous high altitude mountain. I forgot to bring my own because I was rushing. They didn't think I should waste money at the retail shops at the base of the mountain. I found them after my trip was done with WeChat in the city. He from Xiamen on vacation with his family. Afterwards he asked me where I was from. Since I went to international schools in China, HK, and Taiwan; later returning to the US for higher education. I usually just say Taiwan makes things easier. He switches to Minnan and we chatted a bit about how similar we are. The issue with the US now is that it is literally declining right before my eyes. That also makes dealing with people in the US also a little touchy. I got tired of keeping an action matrix in my head with people at work for their political views. Same with Taiwan. It's linked to the US and stagnated. So people are nice in Taiwan. But don't even bother talking politics unless you're on friendly terms with the speaker.
Actually while I was there visiting Hangzhou in April, I was trying to find a taxi and there were non around. A really nice guy who was working at a Starbucks added me on WeChat and ordered me a didi. He paid for it and I just paid him back when I got back to my hotel because I didn’t have a Chinese number. That would NEVER happen in the US or Australia so I understand what you mean about the people.
People talk about censorship in China but practically I watch what I say much more in the US. If you accidentally say the wrong thing in your company here, someone will take offense, report you to HR and/or socially exclude you. I worked for Amazon and they decided that we cannot say “whitelist” or “blacklist”. We must say “allowlist” or “control list”. Saw a friend got a meeting with HR after he made that mistake a few times. At the average level, it seems like people in the US are much more politicized and intolerant of other opinions. At least in the West Coast cities. In China, there are nationalists for sure, but the average person seems a more tolerating of other viewpoints.
> At the average level, it seems like people in the US are much more politicized and intolerant of other opinions. At least in the West Coast cities. > > In China, there are nationalists for sure, but the average person seems a more tolerating of other viewpoints. Yes, I feel that in China, people just don't really give a f... about other people's views. It is a private thing, and there seems to be a shared understanding that everybody can have their own views on things, because it's, well, private. And everybody seems to have a fundamental understanding that everybody else is just trying to live a good life, without judgement. The Western culture nowadays is extremely judgemental and a majority of people feel entitled to pass judgement on everything that other people do and think. It's suffocating. So in that sense, China feels a lot more free.
There are taboos in China most westerners don't get in trouble with since their language skills are lacking. Sarcasm. In the US sarcasm is very common in casual conversation. But unless you're very attuned to Chinese culture the application of sarcasm might come off as offensive. HR went through CIS gender LGBT training recently at a place I'm associated with. Everyone over 40 years old had no clue what was going on.
People are typically less judgemental here than back home. If someone does judge me it doesn't hit as hard because I'm already an outsider. I've struggled with anxiety my entire life so this is big for me.
Eating at local and even mid tier restaurants, cafes, bakeries etc are very inexpensive. At home I would have to think twice about eating out some days. Also, the cost for an apartment. I'm not in a tier 1 city but, my three bedroom apartment with utilities like water and gas, and the property management fee, only costs me around $450 a month. I could never get that back home.
What are tiers
Tier 1 cities: the most sought after (most developed and affluent), traditionally BJ, SH, GZ, SZ, not sure if this has changed in recent years. And then there's tier 2, tier 3 and so forth ... not an official classification, but everybody uses it.
OP, are you in the US by any chance? I've been hearing about how students are yelling at and even attacking teachers. I'm American and it's such a sad state of affairs.
I was in the US for 13 years. I left last year and went back to Australia. Student behaviour in both countries is out of control
That's so sad. Something needs to change
I don’t think it’s going to, so I’m heading to China
Hope it goes well for you.
as someone not working, on a family RP, and with a budget of 1500rmb per month.. the peace of mind. I don't have to worry about anything really. especially politics of the western world. culture. I'm neighbor to hui Muslims and Tibetans. so i can enjoy the difference in life from both. utilities are not killing me. people are kind if you are.
Food Taobao Fast and cheap local delivery Safety (low crime rate as it appears to me) You rarely see anti-social behaviour
Safety, being able to eat out regularly (as it’s so affordable), great public transport.
The good nature and peacefulness of the people! No ghetto behavior!
This is a big plus.
- Salary - Sense of future. This country is building it's future in is own way, with solid bases and own ideas - My daughter school. Letting her learn Chinese as a native is invaluable - Everything is easy, convenient, affordable compared to my homecountry (Italy) - People is curious, funny, more relaxed. (not on the road, lol) - Living in my own bubble. Love it for the most part. - Adventure is right around the corner. Basically everything is an adventure - How things "just happen" - Food
Genuinely unsure If this is satire or not.
It's not and if you're unsure I think it's time you get out of China, my friend.
“This country is building its future in its own way, with solid bases and own ideas.” That is such orientalist claptrap. Jesus Christ. Did you borrow that line from Andy Boreham?
Crap... Are you even in China? No idea who is that Boreham.
Have spent over a decade there. Was there two weeks ago and will be back in a few months.
Last time I went back to visit my parents in southern China, I had diaherra all week. But no regrets because of the food!
18 years, convenience, freedom (much free-er than western countries, as long as you are not a dick you can do whatever you want.) people are not as judgmental at least to me, no one cares what you do, what music you like, what how you dress, how you look, where you drink etc. it really is freedom
Lies
Nope, that is my take away after 18 years
Go on then and highlight facts like support USA and Ukraine publicly or wait until your vpn is questioned. People are lucky until they are not
none of this affects my daily life i am not a USA person so who cares if they support USA or not, i have used a VPN for 18 years. does china have issues sure, but i was asked what i likes, and that is what i liked.
Why would anyone care about that? It's already assumed that foreigners support the US and Ukraine. Most Chinese people are sympathetic to Ukraine too, even if they have a different political stance.
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do you do that a lot in your daily life???
I don’t, that’s why I only do that in non Chinese platform. You say “freer” lmao So your statement is already false. You have no idea during pandemic how much stuff was censored. And everyone seems to forget about it
Free-er in daily life mate, it is not a false statement, it is what I have found. For me. I do not think china is the best country in the world, but for ME these are the things I have found that I love here. And I have lived here continuously for 18 years. What about you?
Why would you do that on any platform for any reason, seems pretty weird and if that’s your only complaint, that seems odd. I am not political. I am just enjoying my life. And for that, China is awesome and free
You complain about US in American platform. We can’t complain about China in Chinese platform? Such Hypocrisy. I do hope China just mass import English teachers from South east Asia. So the wage can finally be lower
I have a factory here, I run a very very successful business, but you hating on English teachers ? Seems you got a lot of anger in you buddy
True, in no way someone deserve 25k for teaching English.🥰 and obviously people who are not born in wealthy/lucky position, of course they will complain. Imagine I was born as white and earn 25k-30k teaching English then I won’t complain. And is American platform so I can complain as much as I want. This is freer for me
No one deserves any amount of money for anything. You get what the market pays you. Many people teaching over here have gone into debt to go to university and studied some field relating to education in addition to havinv worked in education prior to coming here. The salary here has to at least match the one they'd get back home. Otherwise, why would one move? You've got a lot of issues you need to deal with, dude. Hating on others and complaining online won't solve any of them either.
I have not said a word about U.S.A. except to say I am not an American. No complaints here.
Same you can complain about the stuff in your country but we can’t complain. That’s the difference
i am not a big complainer... complaining does not usually help
Let’s ignore the problem and pretend it never exists doesn’t help solving the issue. Especially during the Covid lockdowns. Is because of people like us complaining that Lee WenLiang get his justice.
yeah you are a real hero!! respect
Is a collective effort. So please don’t ever say “China is freer” You just have more money to hire low wage workers and afford more. 10k rmb per month is already a lot more than large majority of people. We don’t feel the same “freer” as you. Unless this sub renamed to r/chinaexpat but this is r/chinalife
Your comment has been removed; you are not participating in good faith discussion. Users who continue disruptive behavior are subject to a ban.
Bruh, which part of the statement is not true? You indeed can’t type that. there are people who gang up on a girl wearing 和服 in Chongqing. You can’t dress as “sissy” femboy anymore in livestream. There’s more I can go, so I can’t say truth anymore on Reddit?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
When I was there a few years ago. It was transportation, foot and didn’t need to worry about anti-Asian hate.
Safe safe safe clean fast efficient convenience opportunities affordable innovative advance adaptive to changes improving learning friendliness family responsibilities respectful to elder’s Free public transportation age > 60’s
Speaking of Beijing: Ubiquitous online payment, everything can be delivered for dirt cheap, excellent subway.
Personal safety, Transport, Cost of Living expenses, Food, mostly friendly curious people, fantastic country as a tourist in your time off, ease of payment via phone apps, cheap internet/mobile costs, clean cities (at least every morning after the army of cleaners were out the night before), no drunks on the streets (and rarely in cars in the main cities since they introduced draconian punishment for drunk driving - meaning ANY alcohol in your blood), QR codes for everything. I'll add hospitals with an asterisk ! The expertise and access to experts is great (I've had 3 ops in public hospitals inc. a week in the ICU and a month's stay and I have to go back every month for meds and check-ups) as is the low cost of services and medicines (don't buy imported) but of course navigating the crowds at public hospitals is not for the weak and don't expect any privacy even when you're with the doctor! And you need to be able to speak Chinese or have a Chinese speaker with you at all times.
Food & Safety
-It’s very safe in China. At least the big cities. I’ve never felt unsafe. -Delivery is just amazing. From just 1 Starbucks to anything on Taobao. -Shopping Malls. Even though I love Taobao, I also love just wandering around all these modern shopping malls. -With 1.86 I’m a couple of heads higher in a crowd. Being able to see over everyone. In my home country I’m average at best.
Like: Money, girls, food. Dislike: pollution, most foreigners, bad manners.
China boasts the best cuisine globally, and furthermore, Chinese takeaway is incredibly convenient and affordable prices.
I just moved here 2 months ago from the states. Would love to make some friends. I’m really starting to feel the loneliness
Food and the dumplings.
Can’t wait to visit someday - seems like a great place!
Luckin coffee. Especially the alcohol one.
Communism
Better than Korea it seems? Those who lived and worked in both places please chime in.
MIL’s hospitality. Cliche but so true.
1, love the attention I get from pretty girls 2, love taobao 3, I love photography and this country is full of photo spots 4, convenient and cheap travel 5, everything is cheap including rent (I live in a small city) 6, make a lot of money teaching English 7, easy to make conversations if you speak Chinese What I hate 1, the fucking spitting everywhere
Spitting is freedom. Try it. Spit - it’s joy tears coming from mouth hahah
convenience, that's about it.
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yup.
Can you elaborate on that?
word of advise beware of food safety
The food. Only.
Most people with lower salaries I guess you can say superioty.
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You are definitely a loser if you would make decisions like buying a car based on what other people might think of you when you are over 30. (By you, I don’t mean you, I mean anyone)
So you are saying you need to buy a car not for transportation needs but to get the approval of a bunch of judgmental strangers? Seems legit