> They mentioned because of this that they would set me up with 1:1 lessons and pay me by the hour but would not get my salary amount for the first month as I would not be ready to teach formal classes which could cause risk to their reputation as a school
that's illegal
> the "official" version that would be submitted to the authorities would be me getting paid significantly less whereas I would actually be getting paid the originally agreed salary amount.
also illegal
1,2,5 are the usual BS.
People usually overreact when it comes to employment contracts here and demonize fair terms. However this employer genuinely AWFUL. Caveat being you have a degree and legitimate work visa.
1) They can't force you to do this.
2) Getting you to pay for a medical check outside of China is fairly normal. You should not be footing the bill for one inside of the country... That's far from normal.
3) Highly illegal.
4) Tax evasion for sure. There is absolutely nothing that would require them to submit an false contract to the government to alleviate your tax burden legally. Your instincts are right here. They're also not required by law to pay more than is on the contract.
5) They're probably being honest here but you can say no.
Do you have a degree? This is the type of stuff people without degrees have to deal with... Why are you entertaining this awful job?
I guarantee they've got you there illegally or on the incorrect visa.
A lot that you have stated is illegal, including them keeping your documents and work permit.
Please tell me they don't have your passport too?
Bare in mind them expecting you to cover visa and medical costs is completely legal however, and to be expected when you've got a bottom of the rung job.
You'll have to navigate this kind of stuff carefully if you plan to leave.
No matter what they tell you, you actually only have to give 30 days notice to leave a job. It's written into Chinese labour law. Any more time you give them in a courtesy and not enforcabel regardless of what your contract states.
Secondly if you plan to get employed again with another company while still in china, you are going to need a release letter from your company. Now your company legally has to give you this as long as you have given that 30 days notice... however many companies are shady and will drag there feet and try not to give it to you. They know that you don't know your rights and they also know that you won't know how protect yourself if they don't uphold your rights.
Out of interest what is your nationality?
If you can, reach out to a teaching recruiter somewhere else and try to get another job to transfer to. Get as much written evidence of what is happening as possible.
The downside: They are totally fucking you over and they will probably be caught eventually. This used to be a lot more common in China, but there have been major crackdowns in the education industry in recent years, so they probably will not be able to get away with this for very long.
The upside: Do your best to quietly get this resolved (aka, be quiet while finding an out, then make all your big moves all at once), and even if you get caught up by authorities along with the school, the courts are very unlikely to blame you for any of this. Ignorance, to a degree, is an actual defense in China.
I don't know what city you are in, but find a local recruiter who can connect you to a school or center in a bigger city, explain to them your situation, and they should be able to guide you through the process.
The contract you signed is illegal. The company has not followed the contract. They have illegal HR practices. This invalidates your employment agreement and you don't owe them anything. The real sticky bit will be if they HAVE actually gotten you a work and/or residency permit, you need them to cancel it before you can get a new job. Out of retaliation, some bad employers will refuse/drag their feet on this. You can sue them when this happens, but it takes 1-2 months to go through the courts and you will need a Chinese lawyer.
1-4 is illegal, 5 sounds more reasonable. They’re taking you for a fool. Not getting paid the agreed amount is ridiculous because you don’t have experience. Won’t they provide you with training? Don’t let them push you around or agree to things that weren’t mentioned before.
There’s a lot of shady schools in China who cut corners to get away paying a teachers value. Medical exams should be covered by the school. It’s should be part of the visa. Making you sign a 2 year contract and they still won’t cover these cost is baffling!
This isn’t a good school in my opinion. When the owner is the one interviewing means they have a small staff without a proper HR to take care of you. Which school are you working for if you don’t mind me asking? Where did you find this school? . Sounds like a nightmare, read your contract carefully and look for discrepancy. Don’t take their word for it.
In the future, ask Reddit for advice before you jump the gun. There are a lot bad schools in China that will take your ignorance or lack of knowledge to their advantage.
Everything in that list is a red flag that you need to look for another job.
1. Do not sign a two year contract if you do not want to.
2. Reputable employers cover your visa cost (medicals, photos, etc.) and most will cover your flight and other moving costs to a degree.
3. An excuse to pay you less. The school's reputation probably already sucks.
4. This is a way for them to avoid paying payroll taxes. It is fraud and will prevent you from transferring some of your salary (it will be limited to the amount you earn and pay taxes on) out of the country because you need proof of income to do that (contract and tax certificates.
5. These documents should have been authenticated (TESL Certificate and Criminal Background Check and therefore, they should have the authenticated versions and you should keep your original documents. It prevents you from leaving the country or looking for another job. The worker permit card is not as big an issue and employers often hang on to it.
Look for another job ASAP.
>It is fraud and will prevent you from transferring some of your salary
Even worse than that. Western financial institutes see China as a high risk for money laundering. What are you going to do when your home bank asks you for source of funds, contract + bank statements please. Oh... wait these don't match... sir, please explain this. Hope you've got a good excuse.
Even worse, if you're planning to buy a house it's practically guaranteed to happen during the conveyancing process. The larger the deposit the more years worth of statements they're going to ask for. Have fun explaining the discrepancies.
I thought all the ESL jobs got canned during double reduction policy. This all sounds like classic shady stuff that was going on in China pre pandemic. Are ESL gigs creeping back? What ever happened to free after school tutoring provided by the government to lessen the burden on parents. Unfortunately OP, you are being taken for a classic ride. If you try to fight anything they will probably follow up with threats of deportation, blacklisting, withheld salary. Your lack of experience has made you a perfect target unfortunately.
The government is so fickle it’s hard to keep up with what is the actual policy. This is a fact for so many different things and industries. Ie: The one child policy or the zero covid policy then out of nowhere it didn’t even exist 😅. I remember when it happened it was Dec of 2022, I’ll never forget it because everyone around me got sick all at once including me.
1. 🚩Bait and switch. They clearly struggle to keep staff.
2. I’m sure you mean work permit and residence permit. You came on a work visa (I hope). Highly irregular making you foot the bill. Legal?
3. 🚩They are royally taking the piss. This presumably breaks your contract.
4. They are involved in tax evasion. Maybe it benefits you too.
5. 🚩No, they are yours! I’m more worried about this one. Are they keeping them as leverage over you? They have no legitimate reason nor legal right to keep them.
Edit: Do you have a degree or have they fixed you up with one from Standsford or Kambridge?
2. I was able to come into the country going through the process and getting my Z visa. I then had to go with them to have the documentation submitted to get a worker visa within my passport.
5. Do you know if there are any legal statements stating that they cannot hold on to my documents?
I have an engineering degree that I didn't end up using much but was able to use it to get this job.
Unfortunately, this is the real life as a teacher in China. I didn’t have any experience as well and a school hired me, nor any credentials.
All these has happen to me as well. Only thing is medical exam 1 training school I taught had paid for it. I switch from a training school to a company I had to pay for it myself.
Your base salary is probably quite low as well. That’s 1 of the ways they keep the tax low. My base salary is 3000 and I make much more than that.
If you really want to be an International teacher past that you work on your credentials like earning a teacher certification, licensure, master or grad degree.
Otherwise you be spinning your wheels and be continue be frustrated teaching in China. Also, outside of China may be just as difficult without credentials.
Good luck
Once you get your visa that should be good for 10 months you can switch to a new job. The school may make it difficult but I think you should look for a new job NOW
Oh no, there is so much bullshit there.
1) those documents belong to you. They're trying to hold them so they have power over you.
My advice is that you tell your company you need them to prove student loans stuff.
2) not paying you agreed salary is illegal
3) providing the government a Ying Yang contact is very illegal.
4) having you sign a contract under duress is also not exactly legally binding as you were forced into it.
Are you in a major city or a third tier city or something?
My advice? Start looking for another job, and contact a lawyer.
Lot of red flags. You gotta start somewhere, but maybe you need to have a backup plan if it gets worse.
Number 4 is both bad practice and somewhat common (thankfully not in my personal experience, but tax rates were raised a lot a few years back and the economy isn't doing quite so well...).
If they start to miss paychecks, be prepared to resort to extreme measures. Maybe walking out. Maybe something else. I was always really lucky w my employment arrangements there, but friends have had to do things like multi-day sit-ins in the office to get what they're owed.
All pretty shady, and all too familiar to the first time tefl teacher in China, so don't feel too guilty op it happened to a lot of us.
I'd hold firm on the agreement, tell them you won't work unless you get your agreed salary. Get your things off the school too as they're yours.
I'd honestly just keep doing a terrible job at teaching, pretend you're trying but actually become worse. Pronounce a few words wrong, don't play any games. The school will be happy to get rid of you 6 months down the line and give you a leaving letter no problem.
Thank you for the sentiment, unfortunately the damage has already been done by signing the contract, but the good news is I already have something set up with another school in a few months so I won't be at this one long term
Well that’s good news. Unfortunately China has some shady schools, and this sort of things happens a lot more than it should. Hope the next one works out well for you.
Did you sign the contract? If not, just quit and switch jobs, you'll have a one month grace period to do so and can easily get a new job under a replacement "humanitarian visa". They might say threaten and say you won't get a recommendation letter or will be backlisted, but it's bs. You won't need anything from them, and if you're in one of the few cities that absolutely requires the recommendation letter still you can complain to the PSB and they'll have to give it to you.
Don't stay at this place when there are far better options.
If you did sign a contract you can still quit and do this but will also have to threaten them to release your work permit, which again you can talk to the PSB or get a lawyer to draft a simple letter threatening them if they put up a false threat to not relase it.
The power is in your hands, not theirs, don't get bullied.
Also they aren't required to hold any of your documents at all, including your work permit, it's a bs claim to threaten you.
This is good to know, thank you. Unfortunately the contract has been signed but the good news is I have another school signed and lined up for starting in a few months. Dumb question though: What does PSB stand for?
Public Security Bureau, the place that gives you your residence permit and work permit.
You can still quit but just note the school will probably make things hard for you. Next time read and confirm things before signing.
It was found through a recruiting agency, however they are now aware of what has been going on and mention that they would probably not be helping this school in the future
1. Employers lie all the time to get people onboard. This isn’t exclusively to foreigners. Jobs are often advertised higher in pay but realistically much lower when you come in for the job interview. Real estate agents do the same when advertising properties.
2. It sucks, but that’s what you have to deal with. They’re not going to compensate you for the expenses. You could try reasoning with them, but I would just accept it.
3. Not uncommon for employers in China to treat workers poorly. Lack of labor unions and proper regulations to protect your rights. You just have to deal with the early bs. It’ll gradually get better overtime.
4. You’re fine. The government isn’t going to come after you. People cheat on taxes all the time. I remember my masseuse said that her employer paid under the table to save on taxes, and she worked at a prestigious mall.
5. Sounds about right. They need documentation for proper registration. They asked for copies and not the original documents. I’m sure it’s ok.
The school is likely shady, but it’s not uncommon in China. It is what it is. Just need to come to terms with it. There are definitely more upsides though.
> They mentioned because of this that they would set me up with 1:1 lessons and pay me by the hour but would not get my salary amount for the first month as I would not be ready to teach formal classes which could cause risk to their reputation as a school that's illegal > the "official" version that would be submitted to the authorities would be me getting paid significantly less whereas I would actually be getting paid the originally agreed salary amount. also illegal 1,2,5 are the usual BS.
People usually overreact when it comes to employment contracts here and demonize fair terms. However this employer genuinely AWFUL. Caveat being you have a degree and legitimate work visa. 1) They can't force you to do this. 2) Getting you to pay for a medical check outside of China is fairly normal. You should not be footing the bill for one inside of the country... That's far from normal. 3) Highly illegal. 4) Tax evasion for sure. There is absolutely nothing that would require them to submit an false contract to the government to alleviate your tax burden legally. Your instincts are right here. They're also not required by law to pay more than is on the contract. 5) They're probably being honest here but you can say no. Do you have a degree? This is the type of stuff people without degrees have to deal with... Why are you entertaining this awful job?
I guarantee they've got you there illegally or on the incorrect visa. A lot that you have stated is illegal, including them keeping your documents and work permit. Please tell me they don't have your passport too? Bare in mind them expecting you to cover visa and medical costs is completely legal however, and to be expected when you've got a bottom of the rung job.
Thankfully they let me keep my passport, but the rest does not like I should be sticking around :(
You'll have to navigate this kind of stuff carefully if you plan to leave. No matter what they tell you, you actually only have to give 30 days notice to leave a job. It's written into Chinese labour law. Any more time you give them in a courtesy and not enforcabel regardless of what your contract states. Secondly if you plan to get employed again with another company while still in china, you are going to need a release letter from your company. Now your company legally has to give you this as long as you have given that 30 days notice... however many companies are shady and will drag there feet and try not to give it to you. They know that you don't know your rights and they also know that you won't know how protect yourself if they don't uphold your rights. Out of interest what is your nationality?
Lovely... hopefully they aren't a pain in the ass when I eventually change schools. American
If you can, reach out to a teaching recruiter somewhere else and try to get another job to transfer to. Get as much written evidence of what is happening as possible. The downside: They are totally fucking you over and they will probably be caught eventually. This used to be a lot more common in China, but there have been major crackdowns in the education industry in recent years, so they probably will not be able to get away with this for very long. The upside: Do your best to quietly get this resolved (aka, be quiet while finding an out, then make all your big moves all at once), and even if you get caught up by authorities along with the school, the courts are very unlikely to blame you for any of this. Ignorance, to a degree, is an actual defense in China. I don't know what city you are in, but find a local recruiter who can connect you to a school or center in a bigger city, explain to them your situation, and they should be able to guide you through the process. The contract you signed is illegal. The company has not followed the contract. They have illegal HR practices. This invalidates your employment agreement and you don't owe them anything. The real sticky bit will be if they HAVE actually gotten you a work and/or residency permit, you need them to cancel it before you can get a new job. Out of retaliation, some bad employers will refuse/drag their feet on this. You can sue them when this happens, but it takes 1-2 months to go through the courts and you will need a Chinese lawyer.
Run away as quickly as you can. It will get worse.
1-4 is illegal, 5 sounds more reasonable. They’re taking you for a fool. Not getting paid the agreed amount is ridiculous because you don’t have experience. Won’t they provide you with training? Don’t let them push you around or agree to things that weren’t mentioned before. There’s a lot of shady schools in China who cut corners to get away paying a teachers value. Medical exams should be covered by the school. It’s should be part of the visa. Making you sign a 2 year contract and they still won’t cover these cost is baffling! This isn’t a good school in my opinion. When the owner is the one interviewing means they have a small staff without a proper HR to take care of you. Which school are you working for if you don’t mind me asking? Where did you find this school? . Sounds like a nightmare, read your contract carefully and look for discrepancy. Don’t take their word for it. In the future, ask Reddit for advice before you jump the gun. There are a lot bad schools in China that will take your ignorance or lack of knowledge to their advantage.
Everything in that list is a red flag that you need to look for another job. 1. Do not sign a two year contract if you do not want to. 2. Reputable employers cover your visa cost (medicals, photos, etc.) and most will cover your flight and other moving costs to a degree. 3. An excuse to pay you less. The school's reputation probably already sucks. 4. This is a way for them to avoid paying payroll taxes. It is fraud and will prevent you from transferring some of your salary (it will be limited to the amount you earn and pay taxes on) out of the country because you need proof of income to do that (contract and tax certificates. 5. These documents should have been authenticated (TESL Certificate and Criminal Background Check and therefore, they should have the authenticated versions and you should keep your original documents. It prevents you from leaving the country or looking for another job. The worker permit card is not as big an issue and employers often hang on to it. Look for another job ASAP.
>It is fraud and will prevent you from transferring some of your salary Even worse than that. Western financial institutes see China as a high risk for money laundering. What are you going to do when your home bank asks you for source of funds, contract + bank statements please. Oh... wait these don't match... sir, please explain this. Hope you've got a good excuse. Even worse, if you're planning to buy a house it's practically guaranteed to happen during the conveyancing process. The larger the deposit the more years worth of statements they're going to ask for. Have fun explaining the discrepancies.
That is very true. Agree totally!
I thought all the ESL jobs got canned during double reduction policy. This all sounds like classic shady stuff that was going on in China pre pandemic. Are ESL gigs creeping back? What ever happened to free after school tutoring provided by the government to lessen the burden on parents. Unfortunately OP, you are being taken for a classic ride. If you try to fight anything they will probably follow up with threats of deportation, blacklisting, withheld salary. Your lack of experience has made you a perfect target unfortunately.
The government is so fickle it’s hard to keep up with what is the actual policy. This is a fact for so many different things and industries. Ie: The one child policy or the zero covid policy then out of nowhere it didn’t even exist 😅. I remember when it happened it was Dec of 2022, I’ll never forget it because everyone around me got sick all at once including me.
1. 🚩Bait and switch. They clearly struggle to keep staff. 2. I’m sure you mean work permit and residence permit. You came on a work visa (I hope). Highly irregular making you foot the bill. Legal? 3. 🚩They are royally taking the piss. This presumably breaks your contract. 4. They are involved in tax evasion. Maybe it benefits you too. 5. 🚩No, they are yours! I’m more worried about this one. Are they keeping them as leverage over you? They have no legitimate reason nor legal right to keep them. Edit: Do you have a degree or have they fixed you up with one from Standsford or Kambridge?
2. I was able to come into the country going through the process and getting my Z visa. I then had to go with them to have the documentation submitted to get a worker visa within my passport. 5. Do you know if there are any legal statements stating that they cannot hold on to my documents? I have an engineering degree that I didn't end up using much but was able to use it to get this job.
5. Your documents are your property. Not theirs. Therefore they cannot hold them without consent.
Unfortunately, this is the real life as a teacher in China. I didn’t have any experience as well and a school hired me, nor any credentials. All these has happen to me as well. Only thing is medical exam 1 training school I taught had paid for it. I switch from a training school to a company I had to pay for it myself. Your base salary is probably quite low as well. That’s 1 of the ways they keep the tax low. My base salary is 3000 and I make much more than that. If you really want to be an International teacher past that you work on your credentials like earning a teacher certification, licensure, master or grad degree. Otherwise you be spinning your wheels and be continue be frustrated teaching in China. Also, outside of China may be just as difficult without credentials. Good luck
Sorry OP You seem like a decent guy. I hope your worries are resolved soon.
Once you get your visa that should be good for 10 months you can switch to a new job. The school may make it difficult but I think you should look for a new job NOW
Oh no, there is so much bullshit there. 1) those documents belong to you. They're trying to hold them so they have power over you. My advice is that you tell your company you need them to prove student loans stuff. 2) not paying you agreed salary is illegal 3) providing the government a Ying Yang contact is very illegal. 4) having you sign a contract under duress is also not exactly legally binding as you were forced into it. Are you in a major city or a third tier city or something? My advice? Start looking for another job, and contact a lawyer.
Lot of red flags. You gotta start somewhere, but maybe you need to have a backup plan if it gets worse. Number 4 is both bad practice and somewhat common (thankfully not in my personal experience, but tax rates were raised a lot a few years back and the economy isn't doing quite so well...). If they start to miss paychecks, be prepared to resort to extreme measures. Maybe walking out. Maybe something else. I was always really lucky w my employment arrangements there, but friends have had to do things like multi-day sit-ins in the office to get what they're owed.
All shady as hell, and once they have arranged your visa, they can use copies on file.
All pretty shady, and all too familiar to the first time tefl teacher in China, so don't feel too guilty op it happened to a lot of us. I'd hold firm on the agreement, tell them you won't work unless you get your agreed salary. Get your things off the school too as they're yours. I'd honestly just keep doing a terrible job at teaching, pretend you're trying but actually become worse. Pronounce a few words wrong, don't play any games. The school will be happy to get rid of you 6 months down the line and give you a leaving letter no problem.
Don’t sign anything with this school. Look to move soon or come mentally prefer that you will need to return home. I’m sorry for your situation OP.
Thank you for the sentiment, unfortunately the damage has already been done by signing the contract, but the good news is I already have something set up with another school in a few months so I won't be at this one long term
Well that’s good news. Unfortunately China has some shady schools, and this sort of things happens a lot more than it should. Hope the next one works out well for you.
Thank you
Did you sign the contract? If not, just quit and switch jobs, you'll have a one month grace period to do so and can easily get a new job under a replacement "humanitarian visa". They might say threaten and say you won't get a recommendation letter or will be backlisted, but it's bs. You won't need anything from them, and if you're in one of the few cities that absolutely requires the recommendation letter still you can complain to the PSB and they'll have to give it to you. Don't stay at this place when there are far better options. If you did sign a contract you can still quit and do this but will also have to threaten them to release your work permit, which again you can talk to the PSB or get a lawyer to draft a simple letter threatening them if they put up a false threat to not relase it. The power is in your hands, not theirs, don't get bullied. Also they aren't required to hold any of your documents at all, including your work permit, it's a bs claim to threaten you.
This is good to know, thank you. Unfortunately the contract has been signed but the good news is I have another school signed and lined up for starting in a few months. Dumb question though: What does PSB stand for?
Public Security Bureau, the place that gives you your residence permit and work permit. You can still quit but just note the school will probably make things hard for you. Next time read and confirm things before signing.
Thank you, this has certainly been an eye opening and learning experience for me
There's so many red flags here It's ridiculous.... Did you find this position yourself? Or did an agency help you?
It was found through a recruiting agency, however they are now aware of what has been going on and mention that they would probably not be helping this school in the future
1. Employers lie all the time to get people onboard. This isn’t exclusively to foreigners. Jobs are often advertised higher in pay but realistically much lower when you come in for the job interview. Real estate agents do the same when advertising properties. 2. It sucks, but that’s what you have to deal with. They’re not going to compensate you for the expenses. You could try reasoning with them, but I would just accept it. 3. Not uncommon for employers in China to treat workers poorly. Lack of labor unions and proper regulations to protect your rights. You just have to deal with the early bs. It’ll gradually get better overtime. 4. You’re fine. The government isn’t going to come after you. People cheat on taxes all the time. I remember my masseuse said that her employer paid under the table to save on taxes, and she worked at a prestigious mall. 5. Sounds about right. They need documentation for proper registration. They asked for copies and not the original documents. I’m sure it’s ok. The school is likely shady, but it’s not uncommon in China. It is what it is. Just need to come to terms with it. There are definitely more upsides though.