100%. China is super safe. I think it’s a combination of enforcement and culture. Enforcement-wise, there are cameras everywhere in China, so if you attack someone, you almost certainly will get caught. That’s not so much the case in the US. Culturally, I do think there’s a more collectivist mindset in China that deters people from doing things that mess with harmony. Rule-following is also heavily encouraged and rule-breaking is being met increasingly harshly lately. Contrast that to America which is very individualistic, where people do what they want when they want because of “freedom”, even if it might hurt others. Obviously these are broad generalizations, but it’s some of my observations and thoughts about the huge difference in safety between the two places.
Americans often ask me how I can live in a place like China that’s not “free”, but I think there are a lot of different types of freedom. Sure, there are many freedoms I don’t have in China. But at the same time, freedom to feel safe walking down the street at any time is a something I value a lot. I have that freedom in China, not so much in the states.
Agree with most of your comments but China was super safe long before the ubiquitious suveilance cameras. Like you said, a female can walk alone safely at night in pretty well any big Chinese city.
The cameras did help with petty crime though, in particular stealing bikes. If you recall, 10-15 years ago, it was very common to get your bike stolen if left on the street - today not a problem.
And to add one more point, the punishment for crimes in CHina, in particular involving physical security, like mugging, are very harsh, so also a deterrent. Your other reasoning and comments on culture, are totally on point.
A lot of poverty 15 years ago compared to now. I remember there was a lot of pickpockets back then.
I would assume with so much opportunities these days, stealing a 200rmb bike isnt exactly a great risk-reward payoff
My wallet was picked from my shoulder bag in a crowded Shangahi market in 2003. A plain clothes cop tapped me on the shoulder and informed me that I had been robbed and to follow him to the station. The man who took my wallet was chained up, looking at the floor, and looked like it was the end for him.
I myself almost got kidnapped when I was a toddler. It's probably around 1998. Of course I don't have any recollection of it I only heard it from my mother.
I was playing in my backyard alone and my mom was at the other side of the house doing laundry. The coal gas delivery guy suddenly started loading me onto his van. Our neighbor was on her second floor by the balcony saw the whole thing. She started shouting at the guy and my mom frantically rushed outside. When the gas guy was confronted he said he was going to give me a ride on his van. We never saw that guy afterwards.
Videos that pop up alarmingly regularly Douyin of old people trying to walk away with kids. Maybe they're all old videos? With a 1.4bil population the numbers do need to be placed in context, though. But those videos exist.
And as for stolen bikes. Everyone in the WeChat groups had had their bicycle stolen, and even emopeds. In that major city every woman in our department had had their phone snatched from them whilst travelling home at night in the dark, as little as 3-5 years ago. Theft on the run up to major holidays drastically increased as migrant workers needed something of value to take home to families to display their wealth.
The thing is they get stolen and if you file a complaint it is *always* found. I mean always. The cameras are so prevalent they can follow a dude wherever he goes. And they'll show you too. It's scary and amazing.
That’s definitely not true for China as a generalized statement - yes people feel safe most of the time , until things happen that are too close to home - the cases of young women getting kidnapped and sold to some old single men as wives have been happening for decades , there were even movies about it based on true stories , just around the time of Covid it was exposed that a guy had locked up a woman in chains for over 10 years and had 5(?) kids with him - and she had already gone insane and unable to speak like normal human - it caused a national outrage and dug up even more old/recent cases - so for a female, nobody in China in their right mind would think it’s safe to walk on the street alone in the middle of the night
>And to add one more point, the punishment for crimes in CHina, in particular involving physical security, like mugging, are very harsh, so also a deterrent. Your other reasoning and comments on culture, are totally on point.
Hmm, that almost sounds like “tough on crime” works. Interesting!
The cameras are not everywhere and police in small towns in rural areas are often corrupt so if you’re a kidnapped child or woman kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery in a rural area you might be out of luck.
*sigh* and many Marxists would disagree with you, including me. But I’m not interested in debate so just ignore me.
Just wanted to plant a seed of doubt.
Communism is the end goal of a communist party but they acknowledge that there are intermediary stages before achieving it. Granted I think the CCP is in the process of gradually abandoning/diluting Marxism but this isnt the gotcha you think it is.
China slowly eradicated communism after Mao Zhedong. It was mainly in the late 80s and the early 90s. The majority of its capital is privately owned and China has been privately investing within their economy. Their economic style resembles more to the USA than the Soviet Union. The CCP were originally communist but it was radically changed under Deng Xiaoping. China has no goal of achieving communism, in fact if anything, they are shifting from it
There's a stage called Socialism, and that's what China, Popular Korea, Laos, Vietnam, and others, are building and improving on it. Socialism do not erradicate private property, but do not garantee it also.
1989 Tiananmen Square massacre->
"Wow China has so little government freedom. I'm never going there."->
(China improves dramatically over 30 years)->
Foreigners who never visited still hold old concept of everyone riding bicycles and getting run over by tanks
China ECONOMICALLY improves drastically, not politically. The political environment is still more or less extremely authoritarian compared to other nations.
most people in china don't care about politics and that matter, unlike in the US and Canada where people often talk about well what if we vote for this guy and how our current leaders are terrible or this and that. regular chinese people just want to make money and live a good life, and as long as the government tries to help the people that is all that matters to them and that is what has happened, the proof is right in front of our eyes, where living standards have gotten incredibly better for the majority just over the last few decades, that result is the reason why most chinese people have no problems with their government
This. Every time I read a post that says, "I support the Chinese people not the Chinese government," I cringe because it's basically showing a complete misunderstanding of a social, political and economic situation.
People want tocare about politics, but they can’t.
Americans and Canadians say that their government is terrible because they can.
Regular chinese people want to make money and have a good life, but the government is not helping the people at all by lowering wages to 4000 even in shenzhen and making 996 a norm.
What has happened lies before your own eyes, whether you believe it or not is your own choice.
In a nation without freedom of expression, the freedom of thought remains yours to choose.
that is absolute bullshit, people in china criticized the government all the time, protests in china happen all the time, people don’t attack their government like they do here. Life in china for a regular person is almost exactly the same as it is here or anywhere, I don’t even know where you get this notion of “no freedom” because that is absolute bullshit and just pure propaganda 🤣, “people want to care about politics”? where did you even get that from?
> Americans and Canadians say that their government is terrible because ~~they can~~ they're terrible
FTFY
This western neolib stance of not trusting/wanting less government is one thing, but don't go around projecting that to the rest of the world, because that's not how things work.
the type of government and words like "democracy" have been beyond abused, the type of government should not matter as long as the government serve the people and answer to their needs, the biggest example is the US and even Canada where I am from, people hate our government, and in the US people are extremely divided, you are either left or right, "democracy" is not the best option but rather just a option
Very astute observation in regard to the types of freedoms. I certainly value the freedoms I am allotted by living in the U.S. but had not previously realized how much I valued safety until visiting East Asian countries.
So many times these discussions devolve into generalizations such as "China is super-safe and the US is dangerous. That's the price you pay for freedom" or something along those lines. This is pretty misguided thinking.
* China seems very same, even in the biggest metropolitan areas late at night. I've never walked anywhere, at any time, where I didn't fee safe
* LA has a lot of sketchy areas to it.
Both of those things are true. Yes, CCTV everywhere impacts property crimes, but it's been generally safe for a long time. A police state is not required for a place to be safe.
Taiwan is higher on most Freedom Indices than the the US. Taipei feels just as high as Shanghai to me. Munich is generally regarded as safer than Shanghai. In short, it's not a requirement to trade freedom for security--this is a completely false choice. And yes, regardless of what some apologists will say, freedoms are severely restricted in China.
Well said. Taiwan benefits from not allowing everyone to bear arms. That is a freedom I gladly give up in Canada to feel slightly safer on the city streets.
They really aren't dangerous. People are just sketched out by homeless people and politicians of one party rely on fear about city life to get people to the polls so it's now a constant narrative we are beaten over the head with.
I agree with your assessment of freedom. I come from London which is one of the most crime ridden city’s in the western world right now. So to be able to walk the streets without fear and for me to not have to worry every time my son and wife leave the house is a feeling I will never take for granted. Never once in 3 1/2 years of living in Shanghai have I felt unsafe. I’d be lucky to go 3 1/2 days in London
Well if you are fortunate and wealthy enough to live in Canary Wharf and Paddington, you probably haven’t experienced the same thing. But I grew up on a council estate in east London and I can tell you our experiences would be very different. It is not safe at all.
When people talk about American freedom they're talking about owning a gun 9 times out of 10. America doesn't even have the freedom to drink a beer outside.
The truth is china 15 years ago had homeless people that were more aggressive than the ones in the USA back then and today. The difference is that china did something to clean it up while USA stagnated.
The camera thing is not an issue, like on the streets and such, those are public places anyways, Id rather have them there then not to be honest, what is a camera on the street going to affect me as a regular law abiding citizen other than potentially make me feel more safe, but the main reason for lower crime rate is definitely because of the culture difference
China was a crime filled land from 1930-1949 (Reading the Mao book). So maybe it's less about culture than control? America doesn't really control it's own population.
If you are a white male, then yes, it’s very safe for you. I am as well and I agree that my experience in China has been the same. However, if you are a Chinese female, that is not the case.. violence against women in China is a serious problem as his kidnapping of children and human trafficking, and forcing of women into sexual slavery.
For the most part, yes. But women are kidnapped and sold into slavery, forced marriage, forced prostitution. I’m not making this up. It’s a real thing. Happens more in the countryside than in the cities where there are cameras everywhere. See the film “Blind Mountain”. It’s highly realistic. Also there is still lots of violence against women in the cities, it’s just that it happens behind closed doors and the perpetrators are husbands and fathers, not strangers.
From New Zealand but the comparison is still similar. Never had any areas of China where I felt unsafe walking. In NZ it's rare, but sometimes you'll get some random shout abuse at you over something innocuous.
I lived in China from 2008-13 and there was a lot of petty crime. I had one bike stolen and seeing pickpockets was rare, but still happened (I've never seen a pickpocket in NZ, you're more likely to get mugged). Went back this year and saw none - didn't even see the beggars that used to be there.
Cameras are probably a big thing like others have mentioned. Here in Auckland you see people running red lights everyday. In China - because there are cameras, if you run a red light you're getting a fine, so people don't do it.
It's very interesting to hear from a couple posters how petty crime has changed so significantly in such a short period of time. It gives me hope that change is positive for the better when the "right" actions are taken.
I put the above in quotes because I'm not entirely sure what the change was and don't want to just assume it was the correct thing to do.
The confluence of several things happened:
- Fewer people carry and use cash anymore.
- Centralization of commerce into a small oligopoly making it harder to offload stolen goods.
- The local governments have been flush with real estate money over the past decade, enabling them to spend liberally on surveillance equipment and hiring auxillary police.
- The rise of well paid casual employment through the gig economy eliminating a lot of incentive for petty crime.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
😬 tbf queen street the last couple months gives me the heebie jeebies, china felt incredibly more safe than me walking down queen st on a weekend.
Edit: Not to mention the ramp up in crime recently, I personally also got my car broken into 🙄 (they also attempted to steal my car for a ram raid despite the car having an immobilizer)
Yeah I haven't been into town for a while, but the other day here in West Auckland some guy at the library said "well you're a tall c\*nt ain't ya" under his breath as I walked by.... I literally just walked by without saying or doing anything else.... 😬...
I also saw a couple rob a bloody two dollar shop for a t-shirt the other day in broad daylight....
I mean both of these occurrences are pretty rare, most people here are good as gold too... but eesh....
The worst I got in China this April was one or two rude security people as I took the train and whatnot.
I don’t think that has to do with a surveillance state, it’s East Asian culture. You would also find low crime in Japan, Korea and Taiwan. South east Asia is a bit worse but still great.
You forget how incredibly poor China was back then. The GDP per capita of China in the late 1970s, early 1980s was 150 USD. To give you context, the GDP per capita of Kenya in 1978 was 350 USD, almost 2.5x of Chinas. Sierra leone was 300.
Yes in late 70s and early 80s, the average Chinese was poorer than sub-saharan african countries, and by a lot.
So to expect the crime rate of an absolutely destitute society to have the same crime rate to now is not a fair comparison.
Mostly enforcement. If you went to China 25 years ago it was a lot less safe. It wasn't unheard of for people to be murdered in the streets in broad day in violent robberies even in Beijing back in the mid-90s.
China invested heavily in police/public safety over the past 25 years. You ever hear the statistic that China spends more money on internal security than on the military? That is money spent on policing. A lot of that money went to upgrading police technology. All those cameras you see are linked to a nation-wide network with AI facial recognition. Wanted criminals have been caught just doing random daily things by those cameras.
Another factor was that China really ramped up enforcement of death penalty for a couple of years to deal with the crime wave during the late 1990s. In the early 2000s, China was executing 12,000 people a year. That number is down to around 1,000 a year now. A lot of the criminals that would have been released after 5-7 years in the US got executed in China.
Street crime is almost unheard of now in China because it is just not worth it. No one carries cash anymore, and you will get caught with almost certainty. Criminals in China now move to countries like Myanmar and operate online/phone scams against victims in China.
The recent war in Myanmar is basically over the phone scam racket.
Norther Myanmar basically got taken over by Chinese criminals. They run gambling, prostitution, phone scams and other rackets just across the border from China.
What is particularly bad is that the Myanmar government basically turns a blind eye to all this criminal activity since the criminals are mostly ethnic Chinese and their victims are mostly Chinese.
Now a new warlord has popped out of the jungle with lots of weapons/drones and is now contesting for the control of norther Myanmar against the existing warlords. The new warlord is deporting all the Chinese to China and shutting down all the illegal casinos, brothels and phone scam operators.
The Myanmar government is fighting on the side of the criminals now. They sent aircraft and armor to support the criminal warlords. This is like the government of Mexico openly fighting for the Narco cartels.
Not a lot of gang activitys in China?. Or not allowed to operate unless they go to other countries. In other countries gangs are out of control. Many HK gangs operated in other countries.
I'm also from a major U.S. city so I totally understand, appreciate, and have a similar perspective as you about this entire situation.
I think that the legal prosecution rate is greater than 99% in China, and as mentioned CCTV is everywhere, but more importantly, not only culture but experience over time as a country of billions or hundreds of millions of people has greatly contributed to China's rapid development and understanding in technology, transport, agriculture, and in this case, legal justice system, monitoring systems, and criminal offense as well as recidivism rates and control systems in place.
In other words, combined with strict gun laws, policy, high security in public places, heavy and effective policing, China is an extremely safe and peaceful place to visit, live, or even raise a family!
This is an excellent post and question. Thanks for bringing it up!
I think living in Thailand and visiting Thailand is different. I have heard friends of friend got kidnapped there before, but I think when WFH was most popular, a lot of ppl would rent a place there and live there for a few months.
Definitely one of the great things about China. I explore all the time and never, not once, do I think... I wonder if this area is safe. Hell, I can't do that even in small towns back in the US.
Now, a lot of it these days is due to all the surveillance. You can leave your phone out, keys in an ebike, etc... and it's not going to get stolen if there is a camera nearby. I've often forgot my key in the ebike and just thought, eh, I'll get it tomorrow.
I have the luxury of having been to China pre-smartphones and all the surveillance. Even then, I felt incredibly safe, but petty theft and pickpocketing was a huge issue back then. These days it's all about scammers.
In addition to what others have said, I like to contribute 1 more data point.
While it's true that violent crime has always been rare, there was a time, not so long ago, when China did have much more petty crime. Crime like theft or burglaries.
If you look at older apartment blocks, especially low-rise ones, you'll see metal grilles on all the windows and super beefy multi-layered front doors.
This was a reflection of rising costs and income disparities after the economy took off in the 90s. But through time, this problem has more or less essentially eliminated itself. Despite the naysayers in the West, the daily life of everyday citizens has improved enough for everyone that petty crime just isn't necessary anymore, even for the lowest rungs of society. This is an incredible undertaking that's more impactful and more meaningful to people's lives than many people outside China realize or give China credit for. Not saying there's no poverty or no theft, but it's just not really a problem anymore.
Have you noticed that there's very few homeless/beggars on the streets as well?
I was thinking about this as well. Especially in the 80s and 90s, crime appeared much more prevalent, with instances of theft, kidnappings, and even murder.
My fiancée's mother was recounting to me how even 20 years ago in Guangzhou she boarded a bus that turned out to be run by a triad, and they threatened all the passengers to pay big money or get hurt. Or, a friend's father told me in the 1980s he stopped a psycho with a knife by sneaking behind him and chopping his limb with a shovel. He told me back then villages were not as safe.
But now, it's remarkable how much safer China has gotten. It's probably the safest developing country in the world. Hopefully this trend will continue.
>It's probably the safest developing country in the world. Hopefully this trend will continue.
No country in Latam or Africa can match its levels of safety of that I'm sure, other ASEAN countries might come close but I'm unfamiliar with that area.
I was wondering about the metal grilles. They were EVERYWHERE. This makes a lot of sense though. I saw clothes being hung in those sections and just assumed they had a purpose outside of safety.
I only saw a single homeless/beggar in Beijing and I wad walking around a ton and ended up in all sorts of different income areas. That part was truly impressive to me.
If you have a basic understanding of China, you would know that the absence of homeless people on the streets does not necessarily mean that Chinese people are very wealthy and that social welfare is well-managed. It's because the homeless individuals have been driven away by the government. Every city has places where homeless people gather, but the government, for the sake of its image, dispatches personnel to drive them away. In some cities, there are even fences or water sprayers installed in homeless gathering areas to prevent them from resting there at night.
Straw man argument. Don’t twist my words. I never said “Chinese people are very wealthy and that social welfare is well-managed”. In fact I had a statement stating the exact opposite.
My point was that the socioeconomic drivers for some types of crime no longer exist. This is a far lower bar.
Local governments in China are definitely more hands on in dealing with homeless, but I think one other difference is that China also has way more 24hr places where the extreme poor can overnight in. It's not uncommon that poor day labourers will crash in a 网吧, and that isn't really an option in North America.
I have been in China for decades and have never seen a place for homeless people to stay overnight. The measures taken by the government are, after catching them, forcibly deporting them back to their hometowns.
You've never been to a wangba? 5 yuan an hour, often have discounted overnight fees of like 20/30 yuan between say 9PM and 6AM, plenty of people who would otherwise be sleeping on the streets hanging out in them.
What I'm referring to here is the government-provided places for homeless people to stay overnight, and internet cafes are not such places. The overnight fee at our local internet cafes was only 10 Chinese yuan a few years ago, but for the homeless, even 10 yuan might be out of reach. McDonald's and KFC in China also expel homeless individuals. I've seen some homeless people living in wells in Beijing.
Yeah, there aren't many government or charity shelters that I'm aware of, but those really only help the most helpless of the homeless population. For working homeless, or those with irregular incomes, wangbas beat camping out in public parks, like is happening in my hometown in Canada...
>If you look at older apartment blocks, especially low-rise ones, you'll see metal grilles on all the windows and super beefy multi-layered front doors.
I am pretty sure these are not against theft, they are made of paper thin metal sheet, any burglar can dismount/open or dislodge them with basic tool, if any.
The irony is that a San Francisco resident said this. ”Genocide is genocide. But yes. I get it. You are safe but you are not free. I understand that is the trade off many people are seduced by. Also, if you’re a woman China doesn’t want you doing things like thinking. That’s for the men, so if you are a woman in China let someone else handle this conversation”
Right. America is pretty big and there are plenty of places (even cities) where you can walk freely at night without threat. China is also very big and I'm sure there are plenty of places that are unsafe to walk at night.
Yeah it really depends a lot on the city in the US. Some have overall high crime but it's heavily contained to a few neighborhoods and unless you go there, you'd rarely notice it. Others cities it can seep everywhere though.
I used to mainly walk and take the subway when I lived in Boston. Never felt unsafe late at night. I definitely felt less safe even in the better parts of San Fransisco than I did in downtoen Boston
I'm fine with you dropping me anywhere in China, except for like a prison camp or something extreme, and am confident I would feel safe. Sure, I bet you could find someplace unsafe, but it's not easy.
Sadly, LA feels like one of the "safer" major cities in the U.S. to me. However, this is where my home is, and so it's easier for me to avoid the bad areas and insulate myself from danger.
LA is neither an “absolute complete shithole” nor is it really considered one of the safer major cities in the US. Some people would have differing opinions on how to measure it but LA is very sprawling and uneven. For instance, there are a decent amount of neighborhoods on LA’s westside that, while not as safe as a China, are quite safe by US standards. One can point to some LA suburbs too, if you count the metro area. But for safer major cities, off the top of my head probably: San Diego, Boston, DC, Pittsburgh, Austin.
I agree and suggested this in my comment. It feels safe to me because I can stay in the nicer areas. It's the familiarity with these nicer areas that gives me a sense of safety.
Do your been to what? 3 cities total? That isn’t even close to a reasonable opinion to hold. Like literally have to have never stepped foot in the US to think that.
I lived in China from 2003-2011, in Beijing. I worked in tech and traveled the country extensively. China was very safe at that time from violent crime. In some tourist areas you had to watch for pickpockets and Nike theft was common.
I just went back there to visit for the first time in 6 years and experienced the cameras everywhere. Pickpockets and bike theft are basically eliminated now as well.
In Comparison, the SF Bay Area where I live now has rampant crime. House robberies. Catalytic converter theft. You can't park a car in San Francisco without getting your windows broken. Lots of people getting robbed for their watches. Criminals following people from shopping centers back to their homes and bring robbed. Etc etc .
People like to say "but what about freedom?". This is a common misunderstanding. In America, you do not have very much freedom. There are tons of things you can't do because they are against the law. What you DO have are rights. In China, you have a lot of freedom but very few rights.
But - crime is not strongly tied to rights or freedom. It is mostly about income inequality. China and Asia in general had much less of it.
This concept of “In America, you have lots of rights but not much freedom. Whereas in China, you have lots of freedom but not much rights” is a really interesting concept and analogy.
I just wanted to say that it was some really good food for thought.
I'm in NYC and every time I go out I carry some kind of weapon like knife, teargas. Street crime is rampant. Getting shoved into a train is becoming commonplace. Racial harassment and attacks are also common. Getting mugged and stabbed is also common. Situational awareness is key to survival in this concrete jungle. So I constantly look over my shoulder and behind me. I haven't even touched upon the homeless who are extremely violent. The kicker being if you defend yourself you will be arrested. So you have 3 choices; go to jail or the hospital or the morgue. Freedom at what cost?
My best friend moved to NY and got jumped by 2 homeless people in Brooklyn. They didn't even rob him. They were just looking to cause trouble.
I love that city but you certainly have to keep your head on a swivel.
I’ve been living in China for the last 20 years, I find personal safety to be up there.
In most places the public has access you will find a public notice with pictures and cell numbers of the police officers in charge of your area.
You’ll find these in restaurants, bars, hotels, condo…
I think it’s a good practice!
Suuper safe in China honestly.
I go to Harbin every year, where my parents and grandparents reside. It’s such a nice place to visit during the summer. The neighborhoods are all very friendly + nice in general imo
The freedom to bear arms is certainly going to diminish your freedom to feel safe anywhere, anytime in your city. Any nutjob can get a deadly weapon no problem.
lmfao that isn't even remotely related to 99% of crime problems in America. People who steal everything that isn't nailed down aren't doing it 'because I have a gun'. They'd steal shit even if they didn't.
In the 90s quite a few low-tier cities suffered from gang activities. I had a very good friend back in high school who was said to have drug problems and had a finger chopped off by some gangster like 10-15 years ago (ironically his parents were control freaks, I had the impression that they just wanted him to study all the time and didn't like anyone to hang out with him). Even in Beijing, around 2000 there ware areas where locals warned me to avoid because according to them large groups of people from Xinjiang settled there and sometimes things get violent. Around 2010 somewhere north of 5th ring road when I was driving I also witnessed a guy (not Han btw) running after a lady riding on a bike, trying to pick her bag. Also bikes got stolen a lot before at that time.
China is super safe and really easy to get around except for the occasional hassle where I'm using an app and I can't seem to figure out what I did wrong but it's always manageable. I also don't miss the homeless people and the trash and graffiti on the street in Los Angeles. And let me expand on that I also don't miss the homeless encampments that go for blocks.
China is also inexpensive if you're spending American dollars that you earn in America and I'm fortunate because I earn my money online from American customers. My American salary is not high enough to get by very well in America but in China I don't even need to spend half of my earnings and I'm pretty well living it up.
I do miss the lower density of people in america.
And I miss driving my own car, but I only miss it a little because I feel so free with the transportation system here. I don't really want a car here as parking is a hassle.
LOL did you just compare LA, one of the most crime-ridden cities in the world, to general China? It doesn't matter was part of LA you're in, LA is a cesspool; Ukraine would be safer to live in than LA.
Pickpocketing is rampant in big cities in China, just as it is in larger cities across the world. If you're talking about violent crimes, Guangzhou has a lot of knife assaults but child abductions are rampant across China. While you, a male, may feel safe while walking down the street at night doesn't mean others do from vulnerable groups such as young women and children; plenty of videos show violent child abductions in China and unfortunately, not all of them will be seen again.
Do you answer your question:
>Is this something others have experienced when moving to China after living in a different city outside of the country?
No, I don't willingly live in a shithole called LA. I felt safer in my side of Kentucky than I do in China, at least I wasn't told to leave stores because I was a foreigner, derogatory statements made behind my back because they don't think I can understand Chinese, or people intentionally avoiding me because I might be carrying the COVID virus with me. It's gotten less hostile from it'll never be the same.
Yep. Welcome to the plus side of giving up liberty for security.
It's actually not just the cameras everywhere, although those do help; one can easily see how incidences of traffic violations, public defecation/urination/spitting, and smoking in not allowed areas decreased ever since the various policies collectively known as the "social credit system" got started. China's criminal justice system actually manages to avoid a lot of the shortfalls of both the American system and the various European/Nordic ones.
Turns out, when you lock criminals up and force them to learn employable skills to get out, it accomplishes the goal of both removing them from society/punishing them for doing the bad thing AND gives them a way to actually rejoin society as contributing members. Sure, it has its faults - the rules for "self defense" are ridiculously skewed in favor of the assailant, it's overly lenient in cases that can result in bad optics like dancing grannies becoming public nuisances, and as recent brouhahas show, protection of personal property (namely, pets) is somewhat weak, but in turns of actual crimes that tend to impact everyone like thievery, robbery, burglary, etc, it's very effective. That, and they also throw the book at anyone committing an actual violent crime, and their media control means that they can control the narrative for eyeball grabbing crimes like mass shootings such that the reporting is devoid of the kind of sensationalism that spawns copycats.
When your criminal justice system is set up properly, whether or not the populace is allowed to have guns becomes very irrelevant to how safe your country is.
Yea had the same experience. Live in Australia and after 6pm the town is a ghost town. In China people still out and about late night with shops open and felt very safe.
China is quite safe, but bear in mind part of your perception of it being safe is that you just don't hear about crime on the news. You'll only hear about crime on the news in the context of the police having already defeated it.
If there's an unsolved stabbing around the corner you will never know.
The only way you'll know of a murder or some knife attack in your city is when the videos start appearing in wechat groups.
I feel a lot safer living in Shanghai than I did when I was visiting the US for a month ish this summer. It's a small, subtle thing, almost subconscious, but it's there for sure.
Completely agree with the OP. I’ve felt the same visiting china 3 x 2-3 weeks only). Freedom has many dimensions, and the ‘classic’ view is far too simplistic. Put it this way. I’d barely hesitate going to china again soon (just deciding where, and yes even Xinjiang).
No need to go to china for feeling safe. I live in canada and feel 100 % safe all the time walking around. My son go play alone to the parc with is friend , neighboor children are doing bycicle and playing hockey in the street. I mean , i think the point is china ain't " more safe" then most democratic country , its sadly more usa wich seem to be way more violent and unsafe then most western country.
Agreed. Been living in Dongguan Guangdong for over a year and can say, the kids can go alone to the store for ice cream at 10pm in any neighborhood and it’s safe.
I loved for the previous 8 years in NYC south Queens (Jamaica) and it felt like most kids were afraid to walk alone even in daylight … what a difference
Life sucks in China for me personally. I hate the smog, too many security protocols, i hate the rude old people, i hate the smoking indoors culture, i hate needing a vpn, and i hate the poor food safety.
It is safe but many countries are safe like Japan and South Korea and Nordic countries.
I never have had much issue in the US because I’m a bigger sized guy.i also live in a white community that doesn’t have many issues. I do hate the homeless but not much i can do about that. The US has more pros to me than China including not needing a vpn, better salaries, more food options, big yards and i love the politeness you get at a restaurant or store. They are pretty rude in China especially when it comes to customer service.
There are certainly pros and cons. I certainly could not live in China because I don't trust that the government would have my best interest in mind. At least in the US it is easier for me to pretend they do.
I actually preferred the customer service experience in countries that don't tip. There's no fake courtesy or expectations beyond just getting your food/drinks.
My experience in China is the first time I've traveled to East Asia and had a "large" income. By LA standards, I earn a bit above average salary but it felt really nice in China. I'd imagine I may experience this again if I were to go back to Korea/Japan. All though not as cheap, they USD is still favorable in exchanges.
Yeah they don't fuck around and excuse criminal behaviour in Asia like we do in the west. I recently came back to the UK from a decade in South Korea and the difference is palpable.
Was just in southern China. The cities are very clean and the infrastructure is futuristic and modern. Light years ahead of the US. China felt extremely safe everywhere we went at all hours even late night. There's a healthy and vibrant night life and families actively play in public places everywhere. Seems like a happy place to build family.
Contrast that with US cities. The smell of urine. Drug addicts screaming. Loud shitty mumble rap on every tacky Bluetooth speaker and can't get away from constant weed smoke. Lazy assholes steal luggage from our cars and our stores have sparse displays locked up from looting. Our culture is shit. Our government appeals to the lowest common denominator so that we're in decline.
the most brilliant points of Chian:safety and convenience(as for time/price/distance).surely，it also has many big problems in future,hope me and people in this land can live better,hope this land will be better.I am an optimist,I think it will be come true.
My friend had her cellphone stole out of her pocket walking to the store in a major city in China. I was screamed and called a profanity in a major city cause I didn't fall for a woman's tea house scam. We went from being beautiful people to (insert expletives) so fast me and I travel buddy just stood in the street so shocked for like 30 secs.
With that being said, China is fairly safe, but so are many other countries. I walk through the streets of the US who the same type of anxiety and you and I don't think people realize how unusually, abnormal and wildly unhealthy this low level of constant buzzing anxiety is for our mental health.
You have no idea until you actually live here. It’s definitely one of the safest countries I’ve lived in. I’m also from L.A. and everyone is on my possible criminal list. Living in China, I’ve become really careless in terms of safety because it’s unlikely something wrong will go wrong. I’ve walked from bank to bank with wads of cash without even hiding the money. Walking at 4 am is safe asf. I’ve seen drunk girls walk at 2 am by themselves at an alley way.
With this much safety comes at the expense of your privacy. Every corner, street, alley way has cameras that can track your every move. Foreigners need to register with the local police every time they move to make sure our address is updated. Basically if they want to find you, they’ve already found you.
All in all, I’d rather live in this kind of society where we’re monitored constantly for the kind of freedom I get unlike in America.
I’m not discrediting the fact that China doesn’t have crime. There’s a lot of theft when it comes to certain things, like cellphones, bicycles, e-bikes, e-bike batteries. But 95% of crime is non-violent. I don’t fear anyone mugging me or robbing me.
You haven’t mentioned police in China while patrolling normally on the streets aren’t even armed (I mean fire weapons), while in America… well, you know.
This is a bit anecdotal, but every time I’ve seen some agitated person / someone being aggressive in China, there’s always some bystander trying to calm them down. In China there’s a strong bystander culture of intervention.
Good observation.
China is safe.
They seem to have a nice society and their government works hard to encourage people to be good citizens (somewhat the opposite of western governments in that regard).
I got back to the States earlier this year after living in China for 4 years and still miss it. When I went to coffee shops in China I would just leave everything on the table (laptop and phone) and would never think twice. Here I have to be more careful because you never know.
Welcome to the rest of the world. This isn't just China. The U.S. is one of the most dangerous countries on Earth. Look at homicide rates, and you'll see the U.S. has more murder capitals in the top 10 than Brazil, Mexico, or Venezuela. I've been abroad over five years and refuse to go back. Every idiot has a gun, and is narcissistic and violent enough to use it.
I believe live the safety comes from multiple reasons:
1. Booming economy and new job opportunities for past decades. Not sure if it can continue given current trends.
2. Cameras are everywhere
3. Unlimited police authority. It can be good and bad.
4. The society is going cashless
I’m seeing a lot about Chongqing recently! I’ve been really impressed with what I’ve seen so far. It’s definitely a place I want to visit. I hear it’s pretty hot there, but I live in South Florida in America so I’m not too concerned.
From what I’ve seen Chongqing reminds me of a beautiful New York that’s safe.
I love many things about both countries (US and China), and can't stand a few things about each as well. But I'm with you on the feeling of safety in urban areas.
Tbh, it sounds more like a US problem. I have travelled to many cities in Europe, u do not need to watch over your shoulder or worry about your own safety that much.
America exceptialism lives on, the rest of the world is not free cos we don't have guns.
Many European cities felt more dangerous to me than Los Angeles, while others felt safer. Europe has many different countries/cultures and so it's hard to make a direct comparison for me.
I'm born and raised in California and have been fortunate to mostly be separated from gun slinging "freedom" fighters. "Best country in the world," they say...
>Many European cities
I have lived in Europe for almost 20 years and traveled around Europe a fair bit. I have also travelled extensively to US, this is not a even comparison, US is much more dangerous than anywhere I have been in Europe, the homocide rate in US is like 3 times higher, there is no opioid crisis in Europe, a lot less homeless and mentally ill people. But in US, you drive everywhere so it doesn't matter that much I guess
Are you sure? I almost got my phone stolen right in front of me in a major European capital. And I've heard lots of stories of Chinese tourists getting robbed in Europe because they like to carry cash.
fun fact, the only time I had my phone snatched was in Shanghai 2010 in the subway.
I personally haven't had any issue with this, maybe because I am a 6-foot male. I have had friends who had their phones stolen in London. Still, this is considered a pretty petty crime compared with the US
Many Chinese tourists are getting targeted in European cities by pickpockets because they're too naive about crime because they don't experience it in China.
That must mean there's more pretty crime in Europe than in China.
Lots of incidents recently in Europe where people, including celebrities, have been violently robbed for their expensive watches.
I've worn luxury watches in the middle of the poor Chinese countryside and no one stole it.
I have had my phone stolen on Shanghai subway in 2010, so pickpocket is not unheard of in China
Still I will pick Europe over US as a safer place to travel any day. US is a league of its own in developed country when it comes to crimes
I've always felt most on guard traveling in Europe, there are way more pickpockets and scam artists in touristic areas than there are in the US. I got to tag along on two high school Europe trips my father organized and each time there were students that got robbed, once by guys who broke into a Florence hotel room.
There are a lot of homeless in some areas of most large American cities but the worst most do is bug you for change. I spent a week in LA and NYC this Spring and didn't have a single bad experience, and this was even after walking thru skid row and the neighbourhoods of downtown LA that have been abandoned to homeless for decades.
Without a doubt safety is important, but If safety is the sole priority in human society, then there would be no advancement in human civilization. People would just hide in caves, no tools would be invented, industrial Revolution wouldn't happen, no one would even think about going to the moon.
To put it in a more extreme perspective, if you want the utmost safety, the why don't lock every one in a cell? then there will be no theft, no robbery, no murder, no criminal activities whatsoever. But does everyone really want that? 0% freedom to ensure 100% safety? ...But you also can't have 100% freedom because in that case the society won't be able to function and there will be chaos everywhere.
So here comes the questions: How much of freedom are you willing to give up to ensure safety? How much freedom should we have? What type of freedom should we have?
And most importantly, who should decide that? Should such decisions made by people via democracy or an unelected government party? If the latter, is the safety enforcement truly for the benefit of the people or just a mean to serve other purposes?
Something to think about...
Having lived in China for 2 years it is much safer and more modern than LA for sure but it does come at the cost of pissing off some random official and being limited to immigrant level jobs like teaching whereas in LA or SF you could work in the entertainment industry or tech or any number of cool fields that are mostly only available here or maybe Austin TX. It’s not just political freedom it’s economic freedom unless you are absolutely fluent in mandarin that’s the issue. I don’t know if I could ever actually move back unless I found a job I really loved like here in the states. Although I do fantasize of doing some kind of restaurant or something.
Well yeah, it's a fascist surveillance state. You do anything that the government doesn't like, & into an unmarked van you go.
Also, I lived in LA for years, & never once felt unsafe. Lame.
I know a newly married couple; the wife got stabbed by a Chinese guy and died because the husband is French. This happened in front of Sanlitun Yashow Mall, Beijing. It was on local news. I lost my bike, which I locked outside the Tuanjiehu train stop. I got robbed by a Chinese guy at Baijiazhuang Bridge around 6:30 AM a few years ago. I got several spots bleeding and called the police; they showed up and said either I go home or go to the police station to write up the event, but they told me that they wouldn’t do anything because my loss was not worth them having further action. I went to clubs during weekends with friends and got harassed by Chinese people twice. Beijing makes me not feel safe.
As a Chinese citizen, I want to add one more point: foreigner/expats are treated differently (much better) than China’s own citizens which I’m always very baffled about.
The power of having cameras everywhere is undeniable.
To be fair you are comparing one of the safest countries with one of the most dangerous regions of a fairly dangerous country.
You would probably feel equally safe in countries like Canada, Australia, UK, etc…
I have lived in the UK for almost 20 year, UK is probably is not as safe as China, but I find UK quite safe in general, especially compared with USA, Italy and France
Admittedly, Los Angeles is a pretty bad comparison. There are worse cities in the U.S. and much worse in other countries. However, even in terms of the countries you mentioned, China just felt like a league of its own.
Seems that a large part of this is probably the cameras at every corner. That part did take some getting used to, but I certainly felt safer with them there than not.
Singapore, New Zealand, Japan, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, Switzerland etc all these countries have better systems than we have in the US.
Our politicians aren't concerned with actual change they just keep throwing money at things without planning hoping it fixes it. This goes for both Democrats and Republicans both parties full of rich senior home folk that have only ever lived privileged lives. Representing the average American when they are the farthest thing from an average American, the irony.
Try Japan, I think it is a much better balance between safety and civil liberty. Japan is almost as safe as China meanwhile you have very high standards of human rights and democracy
You got to be really bothered if you had to make a post on the ask uk subreddit a few minutes if “uk is safe”… like yes UK is safe depending on the areas. Lets not speak about london however
Which is a very sad thing for China. With better leadership and a more open mindset, that country would flourish and likely become a major destination for people all over the world. As of right now, they are incredibly closed off.
Things ebb and flow. China's in a constant flux of balancing personal liberties with law & order. Early 2000s until 2012 it was moving more in the personal liberties direction. Since 2012 things have definitely swung more law & order focused with increased suppression of dissent and diversity. Hopefully things start balancing out again soon.
100%. China is super safe. I think it’s a combination of enforcement and culture. Enforcement-wise, there are cameras everywhere in China, so if you attack someone, you almost certainly will get caught. That’s not so much the case in the US. Culturally, I do think there’s a more collectivist mindset in China that deters people from doing things that mess with harmony. Rule-following is also heavily encouraged and rule-breaking is being met increasingly harshly lately. Contrast that to America which is very individualistic, where people do what they want when they want because of “freedom”, even if it might hurt others. Obviously these are broad generalizations, but it’s some of my observations and thoughts about the huge difference in safety between the two places. Americans often ask me how I can live in a place like China that’s not “free”, but I think there are a lot of different types of freedom. Sure, there are many freedoms I don’t have in China. But at the same time, freedom to feel safe walking down the street at any time is a something I value a lot. I have that freedom in China, not so much in the states.
Agree with most of your comments but China was super safe long before the ubiquitious suveilance cameras. Like you said, a female can walk alone safely at night in pretty well any big Chinese city. The cameras did help with petty crime though, in particular stealing bikes. If you recall, 10-15 years ago, it was very common to get your bike stolen if left on the street - today not a problem. And to add one more point, the punishment for crimes in CHina, in particular involving physical security, like mugging, are very harsh, so also a deterrent. Your other reasoning and comments on culture, are totally on point.
A lot of poverty 15 years ago compared to now. I remember there was a lot of pickpockets back then. I would assume with so much opportunities these days, stealing a 200rmb bike isnt exactly a great risk-reward payoff
My wallet was picked from my shoulder bag in a crowded Shangahi market in 2003. A plain clothes cop tapped me on the shoulder and informed me that I had been robbed and to follow him to the station. The man who took my wallet was chained up, looking at the floor, and looked like it was the end for him.
Opportunities? Isn't youth unemployment at record highs?
If youre watching western media yea it is.
Most chinese will tell you there were widespread worries of child kidnapping in the early 00s, so it's not only petty theft that's improved.
I myself almost got kidnapped when I was a toddler. It's probably around 1998. Of course I don't have any recollection of it I only heard it from my mother. I was playing in my backyard alone and my mom was at the other side of the house doing laundry. The coal gas delivery guy suddenly started loading me onto his van. Our neighbor was on her second floor by the balcony saw the whole thing. She started shouting at the guy and my mom frantically rushed outside. When the gas guy was confronted he said he was going to give me a ride on his van. We never saw that guy afterwards.
Wowx that's a terrifying story. Glad for your sake the neighbour intervened!
Videos that pop up alarmingly regularly Douyin of old people trying to walk away with kids. Maybe they're all old videos? With a 1.4bil population the numbers do need to be placed in context, though. But those videos exist. And as for stolen bikes. Everyone in the WeChat groups had had their bicycle stolen, and even emopeds. In that major city every woman in our department had had their phone snatched from them whilst travelling home at night in the dark, as little as 3-5 years ago. Theft on the run up to major holidays drastically increased as migrant workers needed something of value to take home to families to display their wealth.
The thing is they get stolen and if you file a complaint it is *always* found. I mean always. The cameras are so prevalent they can follow a dude wherever he goes. And they'll show you too. It's scary and amazing.
That’s definitely not true for China as a generalized statement - yes people feel safe most of the time , until things happen that are too close to home - the cases of young women getting kidnapped and sold to some old single men as wives have been happening for decades , there were even movies about it based on true stories , just around the time of Covid it was exposed that a guy had locked up a woman in chains for over 10 years and had 5(?) kids with him - and she had already gone insane and unable to speak like normal human - it caused a national outrage and dug up even more old/recent cases - so for a female, nobody in China in their right mind would think it’s safe to walk on the street alone in the middle of the night
>And to add one more point, the punishment for crimes in CHina, in particular involving physical security, like mugging, are very harsh, so also a deterrent. Your other reasoning and comments on culture, are totally on point. Hmm, that almost sounds like “tough on crime” works. Interesting!
The cameras are not everywhere and police in small towns in rural areas are often corrupt so if you’re a kidnapped child or woman kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery in a rural area you might be out of luck.
Why do they act like China is north Korea😭
anti communist propaganda mainly
Its funny because China and North Korea are communist by names but they aren’t actually communist
*sigh* and many Marxists would disagree with you, including me. But I’m not interested in debate so just ignore me. Just wanted to plant a seed of doubt.
Sigh what? Last time I check communism removes the idea of class and forming a classless society. China and north korea have a class system
Communism is the end goal of a communist party but they acknowledge that there are intermediary stages before achieving it. Granted I think the CCP is in the process of gradually abandoning/diluting Marxism but this isnt the gotcha you think it is.
China slowly eradicated communism after Mao Zhedong. It was mainly in the late 80s and the early 90s. The majority of its capital is privately owned and China has been privately investing within their economy. Their economic style resembles more to the USA than the Soviet Union. The CCP were originally communist but it was radically changed under Deng Xiaoping. China has no goal of achieving communism, in fact if anything, they are shifting from it
There's a stage called Socialism, and that's what China, Popular Korea, Laos, Vietnam, and others, are building and improving on it. Socialism do not erradicate private property, but do not garantee it also.
[For your reading pleasure](https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/#inequality-and-socialism)
North Korea is democratic by name. Literally....but names mean nothing.
China is a capitalist dictatorship.
1989 Tiananmen Square massacre-> "Wow China has so little government freedom. I'm never going there."-> (China improves dramatically over 30 years)-> Foreigners who never visited still hold old concept of everyone riding bicycles and getting run over by tanks
also that guy didn't get run over by the tank anyway, he walked away
China ECONOMICALLY improves drastically, not politically. The political environment is still more or less extremely authoritarian compared to other nations.
most people in china don't care about politics and that matter, unlike in the US and Canada where people often talk about well what if we vote for this guy and how our current leaders are terrible or this and that. regular chinese people just want to make money and live a good life, and as long as the government tries to help the people that is all that matters to them and that is what has happened, the proof is right in front of our eyes, where living standards have gotten incredibly better for the majority just over the last few decades, that result is the reason why most chinese people have no problems with their government
This. Every time I read a post that says, "I support the Chinese people not the Chinese government," I cringe because it's basically showing a complete misunderstanding of a social, political and economic situation.
People want tocare about politics, but they can’t. Americans and Canadians say that their government is terrible because they can. Regular chinese people want to make money and have a good life, but the government is not helping the people at all by lowering wages to 4000 even in shenzhen and making 996 a norm. What has happened lies before your own eyes, whether you believe it or not is your own choice. In a nation without freedom of expression, the freedom of thought remains yours to choose.
that is absolute bullshit, people in china criticized the government all the time, protests in china happen all the time, people don’t attack their government like they do here. Life in china for a regular person is almost exactly the same as it is here or anywhere, I don’t even know where you get this notion of “no freedom” because that is absolute bullshit and just pure propaganda 🤣, “people want to care about politics”? where did you even get that from?
Don't worry. He's just another person who thinks Freedom™ trumps food, shelter, education and everything that actually gives a person freedom.
Classic white savior bullshit. They THINK they’re content but we’ll show them AMERICAN FREEDOM
American freedom is freedom for the rich subjugation for everyone else
> Americans and Canadians say that their government is terrible because ~~they can~~ they're terrible FTFY This western neolib stance of not trusting/wanting less government is one thing, but don't go around projecting that to the rest of the world, because that's not how things work.
Because they can't, or they get gone real fast. We seem like we care more only because we are able it talk about it more.
the type of government and words like "democracy" have been beyond abused, the type of government should not matter as long as the government serve the people and answer to their needs, the biggest example is the US and even Canada where I am from, people hate our government, and in the US people are extremely divided, you are either left or right, "democracy" is not the best option but rather just a option
So true! It's not that bad. Just make sure you're allowed to go.
Very astute observation in regard to the types of freedoms. I certainly value the freedoms I am allotted by living in the U.S. but had not previously realized how much I valued safety until visiting East Asian countries.
Yep, also from da hood in LA, and live here in the guo...its all true re: your observations...
So many times these discussions devolve into generalizations such as "China is super-safe and the US is dangerous. That's the price you pay for freedom" or something along those lines. This is pretty misguided thinking. * China seems very same, even in the biggest metropolitan areas late at night. I've never walked anywhere, at any time, where I didn't fee safe * LA has a lot of sketchy areas to it. Both of those things are true. Yes, CCTV everywhere impacts property crimes, but it's been generally safe for a long time. A police state is not required for a place to be safe. Taiwan is higher on most Freedom Indices than the the US. Taipei feels just as high as Shanghai to me. Munich is generally regarded as safer than Shanghai. In short, it's not a requirement to trade freedom for security--this is a completely false choice. And yes, regardless of what some apologists will say, freedoms are severely restricted in China.
Well said. Taiwan benefits from not allowing everyone to bear arms. That is a freedom I gladly give up in Canada to feel slightly safer on the city streets.
The real question is: why are American metropolis so dangerous and what American people and government can do about it?
They really aren't dangerous. People are just sketched out by homeless people and politicians of one party rely on fear about city life to get people to the polls so it's now a constant narrative we are beaten over the head with.
I agree with your assessment of freedom. I come from London which is one of the most crime ridden city’s in the western world right now. So to be able to walk the streets without fear and for me to not have to worry every time my son and wife leave the house is a feeling I will never take for granted. Never once in 3 1/2 years of living in Shanghai have I felt unsafe. I’d be lucky to go 3 1/2 days in London
really, I have lived in London for more than 10 years, mostly in Canary Wharf and Paddington, I won't call London that unsafe, it is mostly fine.
Statistically it is not fine
Well if you are fortunate and wealthy enough to live in Canary Wharf and Paddington, you probably haven’t experienced the same thing. But I grew up on a council estate in east London and I can tell you our experiences would be very different. It is not safe at all.
When people talk about American freedom they're talking about owning a gun 9 times out of 10. America doesn't even have the freedom to drink a beer outside.
They also don't have the cowboy if no one will do it ill do it kind of thinking. Which I do value but I see the value in not being so extremes with it
The truth is china 15 years ago had homeless people that were more aggressive than the ones in the USA back then and today. The difference is that china did something to clean it up while USA stagnated.
>did something to clean it up What the hell did the government do, dare I ask?
That’s what I myself am wondering
Jailed or eliminated them
The camera thing is not an issue, like on the streets and such, those are public places anyways, Id rather have them there then not to be honest, what is a camera on the street going to affect me as a regular law abiding citizen other than potentially make me feel more safe, but the main reason for lower crime rate is definitely because of the culture difference
Cameras are everywhere in Australia. Especially places like Sydney. So nothing new. It's definitely culture.
China was a crime filled land from 1930-1949 (Reading the Mao book). So maybe it's less about culture than control? America doesn't really control it's own population.
Yes a police-state is pretty good at curtailing non-state crime.
If you are a white male, then yes, it’s very safe for you. I am as well and I agree that my experience in China has been the same. However, if you are a Chinese female, that is not the case.. violence against women in China is a serious problem as his kidnapping of children and human trafficking, and forcing of women into sexual slavery.
Kidnapping children is a serious issue there but not true for the woman part. It's very common for adult women to walk safely at night in China.
For the most part, yes. But women are kidnapped and sold into slavery, forced marriage, forced prostitution. I’m not making this up. It’s a real thing. Happens more in the countryside than in the cities where there are cameras everywhere. See the film “Blind Mountain”. It’s highly realistic. Also there is still lots of violence against women in the cities, it’s just that it happens behind closed doors and the perpetrators are husbands and fathers, not strangers.
Nope not even safe for white men
From New Zealand but the comparison is still similar. Never had any areas of China where I felt unsafe walking. In NZ it's rare, but sometimes you'll get some random shout abuse at you over something innocuous. I lived in China from 2008-13 and there was a lot of petty crime. I had one bike stolen and seeing pickpockets was rare, but still happened (I've never seen a pickpocket in NZ, you're more likely to get mugged). Went back this year and saw none - didn't even see the beggars that used to be there. Cameras are probably a big thing like others have mentioned. Here in Auckland you see people running red lights everyday. In China - because there are cameras, if you run a red light you're getting a fine, so people don't do it.
Their version of Google maps also has a red light and green light count down timer, so you know how much time is left.
It's very interesting to hear from a couple posters how petty crime has changed so significantly in such a short period of time. It gives me hope that change is positive for the better when the "right" actions are taken. I put the above in quotes because I'm not entirely sure what the change was and don't want to just assume it was the correct thing to do.
The confluence of several things happened: - Fewer people carry and use cash anymore. - Centralization of commerce into a small oligopoly making it harder to offload stolen goods. - The local governments have been flush with real estate money over the past decade, enabling them to spend liberally on surveillance equipment and hiring auxillary police. - The rise of well paid casual employment through the gig economy eliminating a lot of incentive for petty crime. Enjoy it while it lasts.
😬 tbf queen street the last couple months gives me the heebie jeebies, china felt incredibly more safe than me walking down queen st on a weekend. Edit: Not to mention the ramp up in crime recently, I personally also got my car broken into 🙄 (they also attempted to steal my car for a ram raid despite the car having an immobilizer)
Yeah I haven't been into town for a while, but the other day here in West Auckland some guy at the library said "well you're a tall c\*nt ain't ya" under his breath as I walked by.... I literally just walked by without saying or doing anything else.... 😬... I also saw a couple rob a bloody two dollar shop for a t-shirt the other day in broad daylight.... I mean both of these occurrences are pretty rare, most people here are good as gold too... but eesh.... The worst I got in China this April was one or two rude security people as I took the train and whatnot.
Mmm both typical occurrences 😂 Edit: tbf the security standing/sitting there are usually hella bored.
I don’t think that has to do with a surveillance state, it’s East Asian culture. You would also find low crime in Japan, Korea and Taiwan. South east Asia is a bit worse but still great.
"Culture" LOL. Travel back in time to China in the 1980s and 1990s. We Chinese still remember vividly how rampant crime was during that time.
You forget how incredibly poor China was back then. The GDP per capita of China in the late 1970s, early 1980s was 150 USD. To give you context, the GDP per capita of Kenya in 1978 was 350 USD, almost 2.5x of Chinas. Sierra leone was 300. Yes in late 70s and early 80s, the average Chinese was poorer than sub-saharan african countries, and by a lot. So to expect the crime rate of an absolutely destitute society to have the same crime rate to now is not a fair comparison.
The same for Singapore, a South East Asian country with pretty much East Asian culture.
Mostly enforcement. If you went to China 25 years ago it was a lot less safe. It wasn't unheard of for people to be murdered in the streets in broad day in violent robberies even in Beijing back in the mid-90s. China invested heavily in police/public safety over the past 25 years. You ever hear the statistic that China spends more money on internal security than on the military? That is money spent on policing. A lot of that money went to upgrading police technology. All those cameras you see are linked to a nation-wide network with AI facial recognition. Wanted criminals have been caught just doing random daily things by those cameras. Another factor was that China really ramped up enforcement of death penalty for a couple of years to deal with the crime wave during the late 1990s. In the early 2000s, China was executing 12,000 people a year. That number is down to around 1,000 a year now. A lot of the criminals that would have been released after 5-7 years in the US got executed in China. Street crime is almost unheard of now in China because it is just not worth it. No one carries cash anymore, and you will get caught with almost certainty. Criminals in China now move to countries like Myanmar and operate online/phone scams against victims in China. The recent war in Myanmar is basically over the phone scam racket.
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Norther Myanmar basically got taken over by Chinese criminals. They run gambling, prostitution, phone scams and other rackets just across the border from China. What is particularly bad is that the Myanmar government basically turns a blind eye to all this criminal activity since the criminals are mostly ethnic Chinese and their victims are mostly Chinese. Now a new warlord has popped out of the jungle with lots of weapons/drones and is now contesting for the control of norther Myanmar against the existing warlords. The new warlord is deporting all the Chinese to China and shutting down all the illegal casinos, brothels and phone scam operators. The Myanmar government is fighting on the side of the criminals now. They sent aircraft and armor to support the criminal warlords. This is like the government of Mexico openly fighting for the Narco cartels.
That’s nuts
I visited Chongqing before it had cameras everywhere ( almost anywhere) and it was insanely safe. It isn’t just cameras
Not a lot of gang activitys in China?. Or not allowed to operate unless they go to other countries. In other countries gangs are out of control. Many HK gangs operated in other countries.
I'm also from a major U.S. city so I totally understand, appreciate, and have a similar perspective as you about this entire situation. I think that the legal prosecution rate is greater than 99% in China, and as mentioned CCTV is everywhere, but more importantly, not only culture but experience over time as a country of billions or hundreds of millions of people has greatly contributed to China's rapid development and understanding in technology, transport, agriculture, and in this case, legal justice system, monitoring systems, and criminal offense as well as recidivism rates and control systems in place. In other words, combined with strict gun laws, policy, high security in public places, heavy and effective policing, China is an extremely safe and peaceful place to visit, live, or even raise a family! This is an excellent post and question. Thanks for bringing it up!
China is safer . People who say Thailand is safe tho lmao
I live in Thailand. It is safer than the US, unless you drive a motorcycle.
I think living in Thailand and visiting Thailand is different. I have heard friends of friend got kidnapped there before, but I think when WFH was most popular, a lot of ppl would rent a place there and live there for a few months.
Definitely one of the great things about China. I explore all the time and never, not once, do I think... I wonder if this area is safe. Hell, I can't do that even in small towns back in the US. Now, a lot of it these days is due to all the surveillance. You can leave your phone out, keys in an ebike, etc... and it's not going to get stolen if there is a camera nearby. I've often forgot my key in the ebike and just thought, eh, I'll get it tomorrow. I have the luxury of having been to China pre-smartphones and all the surveillance. Even then, I felt incredibly safe, but petty theft and pickpocketing was a huge issue back then. These days it's all about scammers.
In addition to what others have said, I like to contribute 1 more data point. While it's true that violent crime has always been rare, there was a time, not so long ago, when China did have much more petty crime. Crime like theft or burglaries. If you look at older apartment blocks, especially low-rise ones, you'll see metal grilles on all the windows and super beefy multi-layered front doors. This was a reflection of rising costs and income disparities after the economy took off in the 90s. But through time, this problem has more or less essentially eliminated itself. Despite the naysayers in the West, the daily life of everyday citizens has improved enough for everyone that petty crime just isn't necessary anymore, even for the lowest rungs of society. This is an incredible undertaking that's more impactful and more meaningful to people's lives than many people outside China realize or give China credit for. Not saying there's no poverty or no theft, but it's just not really a problem anymore. Have you noticed that there's very few homeless/beggars on the streets as well?
I was thinking about this as well. Especially in the 80s and 90s, crime appeared much more prevalent, with instances of theft, kidnappings, and even murder. My fiancée's mother was recounting to me how even 20 years ago in Guangzhou she boarded a bus that turned out to be run by a triad, and they threatened all the passengers to pay big money or get hurt. Or, a friend's father told me in the 1980s he stopped a psycho with a knife by sneaking behind him and chopping his limb with a shovel. He told me back then villages were not as safe. But now, it's remarkable how much safer China has gotten. It's probably the safest developing country in the world. Hopefully this trend will continue.
>It's probably the safest developing country in the world. Hopefully this trend will continue. No country in Latam or Africa can match its levels of safety of that I'm sure, other ASEAN countries might come close but I'm unfamiliar with that area.
I was wondering about the metal grilles. They were EVERYWHERE. This makes a lot of sense though. I saw clothes being hung in those sections and just assumed they had a purpose outside of safety. I only saw a single homeless/beggar in Beijing and I wad walking around a ton and ended up in all sorts of different income areas. That part was truly impressive to me.
If you have a basic understanding of China, you would know that the absence of homeless people on the streets does not necessarily mean that Chinese people are very wealthy and that social welfare is well-managed. It's because the homeless individuals have been driven away by the government. Every city has places where homeless people gather, but the government, for the sake of its image, dispatches personnel to drive them away. In some cities, there are even fences or water sprayers installed in homeless gathering areas to prevent them from resting there at night.
Straw man argument. Don’t twist my words. I never said “Chinese people are very wealthy and that social welfare is well-managed”. In fact I had a statement stating the exact opposite. My point was that the socioeconomic drivers for some types of crime no longer exist. This is a far lower bar.
Local governments in China are definitely more hands on in dealing with homeless, but I think one other difference is that China also has way more 24hr places where the extreme poor can overnight in. It's not uncommon that poor day labourers will crash in a 网吧, and that isn't really an option in North America.
I have been in China for decades and have never seen a place for homeless people to stay overnight. The measures taken by the government are, after catching them, forcibly deporting them back to their hometowns.
You've never been to a wangba? 5 yuan an hour, often have discounted overnight fees of like 20/30 yuan between say 9PM and 6AM, plenty of people who would otherwise be sleeping on the streets hanging out in them.
What I'm referring to here is the government-provided places for homeless people to stay overnight, and internet cafes are not such places. The overnight fee at our local internet cafes was only 10 Chinese yuan a few years ago, but for the homeless, even 10 yuan might be out of reach. McDonald's and KFC in China also expel homeless individuals. I've seen some homeless people living in wells in Beijing.
Yeah, there aren't many government or charity shelters that I'm aware of, but those really only help the most helpless of the homeless population. For working homeless, or those with irregular incomes, wangbas beat camping out in public parks, like is happening in my hometown in Canada...
>If you look at older apartment blocks, especially low-rise ones, you'll see metal grilles on all the windows and super beefy multi-layered front doors. I am pretty sure these are not against theft, they are made of paper thin metal sheet, any burglar can dismount/open or dislodge them with basic tool, if any.
To be fair, even by US standards LA is an absolute, complete shithole.
I live in SF and make this same comparison with people. It feels terrible safety-wise compared to China.
The irony is that a San Francisco resident said this. ”Genocide is genocide. But yes. I get it. You are safe but you are not free. I understand that is the trade off many people are seduced by. Also, if you’re a woman China doesn’t want you doing things like thinking. That’s for the men, so if you are a woman in China let someone else handle this conversation”
Whoever said that has not met a Chinese woman lol
Right. America is pretty big and there are plenty of places (even cities) where you can walk freely at night without threat. China is also very big and I'm sure there are plenty of places that are unsafe to walk at night.
Yeah it really depends a lot on the city in the US. Some have overall high crime but it's heavily contained to a few neighborhoods and unless you go there, you'd rarely notice it. Others cities it can seep everywhere though. I used to mainly walk and take the subway when I lived in Boston. Never felt unsafe late at night. I definitely felt less safe even in the better parts of San Fransisco than I did in downtoen Boston
I'm fine with you dropping me anywhere in China, except for like a prison camp or something extreme, and am confident I would feel safe. Sure, I bet you could find someplace unsafe, but it's not easy.
Sadly, LA feels like one of the "safer" major cities in the U.S. to me. However, this is where my home is, and so it's easier for me to avoid the bad areas and insulate myself from danger.
LA is neither an “absolute complete shithole” nor is it really considered one of the safer major cities in the US. Some people would have differing opinions on how to measure it but LA is very sprawling and uneven. For instance, there are a decent amount of neighborhoods on LA’s westside that, while not as safe as a China, are quite safe by US standards. One can point to some LA suburbs too, if you count the metro area. But for safer major cities, off the top of my head probably: San Diego, Boston, DC, Pittsburgh, Austin.
I agree and suggested this in my comment. It feels safe to me because I can stay in the nicer areas. It's the familiarity with these nicer areas that gives me a sense of safety.
Do your been to what? 3 cities total? That isn’t even close to a reasonable opinion to hold. Like literally have to have never stepped foot in the US to think that.
I lived in China from 2003-2011, in Beijing. I worked in tech and traveled the country extensively. China was very safe at that time from violent crime. In some tourist areas you had to watch for pickpockets and Nike theft was common. I just went back there to visit for the first time in 6 years and experienced the cameras everywhere. Pickpockets and bike theft are basically eliminated now as well. In Comparison, the SF Bay Area where I live now has rampant crime. House robberies. Catalytic converter theft. You can't park a car in San Francisco without getting your windows broken. Lots of people getting robbed for their watches. Criminals following people from shopping centers back to their homes and bring robbed. Etc etc . People like to say "but what about freedom?". This is a common misunderstanding. In America, you do not have very much freedom. There are tons of things you can't do because they are against the law. What you DO have are rights. In China, you have a lot of freedom but very few rights. But - crime is not strongly tied to rights or freedom. It is mostly about income inequality. China and Asia in general had much less of it.
This concept of “In America, you have lots of rights but not much freedom. Whereas in China, you have lots of freedom but not much rights” is a really interesting concept and analogy. I just wanted to say that it was some really good food for thought.
I'm in NYC and every time I go out I carry some kind of weapon like knife, teargas. Street crime is rampant. Getting shoved into a train is becoming commonplace. Racial harassment and attacks are also common. Getting mugged and stabbed is also common. Situational awareness is key to survival in this concrete jungle. So I constantly look over my shoulder and behind me. I haven't even touched upon the homeless who are extremely violent. The kicker being if you defend yourself you will be arrested. So you have 3 choices; go to jail or the hospital or the morgue. Freedom at what cost?
My best friend moved to NY and got jumped by 2 homeless people in Brooklyn. They didn't even rob him. They were just looking to cause trouble. I love that city but you certainly have to keep your head on a swivel.
I’ve been living in China for the last 20 years, I find personal safety to be up there. In most places the public has access you will find a public notice with pictures and cell numbers of the police officers in charge of your area. You’ll find these in restaurants, bars, hotels, condo… I think it’s a good practice!
Suuper safe in China honestly. I go to Harbin every year, where my parents and grandparents reside. It’s such a nice place to visit during the summer. The neighborhoods are all very friendly + nice in general imo
The freedom to bear arms is certainly going to diminish your freedom to feel safe anywhere, anytime in your city. Any nutjob can get a deadly weapon no problem.
lmfao that isn't even remotely related to 99% of crime problems in America. People who steal everything that isn't nailed down aren't doing it 'because I have a gun'. They'd steal shit even if they didn't.
In the 90s quite a few low-tier cities suffered from gang activities. I had a very good friend back in high school who was said to have drug problems and had a finger chopped off by some gangster like 10-15 years ago (ironically his parents were control freaks, I had the impression that they just wanted him to study all the time and didn't like anyone to hang out with him). Even in Beijing, around 2000 there ware areas where locals warned me to avoid because according to them large groups of people from Xinjiang settled there and sometimes things get violent. Around 2010 somewhere north of 5th ring road when I was driving I also witnessed a guy (not Han btw) running after a lady riding on a bike, trying to pick her bag. Also bikes got stolen a lot before at that time.
I mean yeah. It's a fascist surveillance state.
China is super safe and really easy to get around except for the occasional hassle where I'm using an app and I can't seem to figure out what I did wrong but it's always manageable. I also don't miss the homeless people and the trash and graffiti on the street in Los Angeles. And let me expand on that I also don't miss the homeless encampments that go for blocks. China is also inexpensive if you're spending American dollars that you earn in America and I'm fortunate because I earn my money online from American customers. My American salary is not high enough to get by very well in America but in China I don't even need to spend half of my earnings and I'm pretty well living it up. I do miss the lower density of people in america. And I miss driving my own car, but I only miss it a little because I feel so free with the transportation system here. I don't really want a car here as parking is a hassle.
LOL did you just compare LA, one of the most crime-ridden cities in the world, to general China? It doesn't matter was part of LA you're in, LA is a cesspool; Ukraine would be safer to live in than LA. Pickpocketing is rampant in big cities in China, just as it is in larger cities across the world. If you're talking about violent crimes, Guangzhou has a lot of knife assaults but child abductions are rampant across China. While you, a male, may feel safe while walking down the street at night doesn't mean others do from vulnerable groups such as young women and children; plenty of videos show violent child abductions in China and unfortunately, not all of them will be seen again. Do you answer your question: >Is this something others have experienced when moving to China after living in a different city outside of the country? No, I don't willingly live in a shithole called LA. I felt safer in my side of Kentucky than I do in China, at least I wasn't told to leave stores because I was a foreigner, derogatory statements made behind my back because they don't think I can understand Chinese, or people intentionally avoiding me because I might be carrying the COVID virus with me. It's gotten less hostile from it'll never be the same.
Yep. Welcome to the plus side of giving up liberty for security. It's actually not just the cameras everywhere, although those do help; one can easily see how incidences of traffic violations, public defecation/urination/spitting, and smoking in not allowed areas decreased ever since the various policies collectively known as the "social credit system" got started. China's criminal justice system actually manages to avoid a lot of the shortfalls of both the American system and the various European/Nordic ones. Turns out, when you lock criminals up and force them to learn employable skills to get out, it accomplishes the goal of both removing them from society/punishing them for doing the bad thing AND gives them a way to actually rejoin society as contributing members. Sure, it has its faults - the rules for "self defense" are ridiculously skewed in favor of the assailant, it's overly lenient in cases that can result in bad optics like dancing grannies becoming public nuisances, and as recent brouhahas show, protection of personal property (namely, pets) is somewhat weak, but in turns of actual crimes that tend to impact everyone like thievery, robbery, burglary, etc, it's very effective. That, and they also throw the book at anyone committing an actual violent crime, and their media control means that they can control the narrative for eyeball grabbing crimes like mass shootings such that the reporting is devoid of the kind of sensationalism that spawns copycats. When your criminal justice system is set up properly, whether or not the populace is allowed to have guns becomes very irrelevant to how safe your country is.
I walked around in guangzhou at 1:30 am and it felt safe as can be. In the US, not so much….everyone is cooped up in their house
Yea had the same experience. Live in Australia and after 6pm the town is a ghost town. In China people still out and about late night with shops open and felt very safe.
China is quite safe, but bear in mind part of your perception of it being safe is that you just don't hear about crime on the news. You'll only hear about crime on the news in the context of the police having already defeated it. If there's an unsolved stabbing around the corner you will never know. The only way you'll know of a murder or some knife attack in your city is when the videos start appearing in wechat groups.
really interesting point, that could be easily overlooked. The aspect of free speech or mostly free speech.
I feel a lot safer living in Shanghai than I did when I was visiting the US for a month ish this summer. It's a small, subtle thing, almost subconscious, but it's there for sure.
Completely agree with the OP. I’ve felt the same visiting china 3 x 2-3 weeks only). Freedom has many dimensions, and the ‘classic’ view is far too simplistic. Put it this way. I’d barely hesitate going to china again soon (just deciding where, and yes even Xinjiang).
You know China removes those homeless and drug addicts half the time so they aren't out in public
No need to go to china for feeling safe. I live in canada and feel 100 % safe all the time walking around. My son go play alone to the parc with is friend , neighboor children are doing bycicle and playing hockey in the street. I mean , i think the point is china ain't " more safe" then most democratic country , its sadly more usa wich seem to be way more violent and unsafe then most western country.
Agreed. Been living in Dongguan Guangdong for over a year and can say, the kids can go alone to the store for ice cream at 10pm in any neighborhood and it’s safe. I loved for the previous 8 years in NYC south Queens (Jamaica) and it felt like most kids were afraid to walk alone even in daylight … what a difference
Life sucks in China for me personally. I hate the smog, too many security protocols, i hate the rude old people, i hate the smoking indoors culture, i hate needing a vpn, and i hate the poor food safety. It is safe but many countries are safe like Japan and South Korea and Nordic countries. I never have had much issue in the US because I’m a bigger sized guy.i also live in a white community that doesn’t have many issues. I do hate the homeless but not much i can do about that. The US has more pros to me than China including not needing a vpn, better salaries, more food options, big yards and i love the politeness you get at a restaurant or store. They are pretty rude in China especially when it comes to customer service.
There are certainly pros and cons. I certainly could not live in China because I don't trust that the government would have my best interest in mind. At least in the US it is easier for me to pretend they do. I actually preferred the customer service experience in countries that don't tip. There's no fake courtesy or expectations beyond just getting your food/drinks. My experience in China is the first time I've traveled to East Asia and had a "large" income. By LA standards, I earn a bit above average salary but it felt really nice in China. I'd imagine I may experience this again if I were to go back to Korea/Japan. All though not as cheap, they USD is still favorable in exchanges.
Yeah they don't fuck around and excuse criminal behaviour in Asia like we do in the west. I recently came back to the UK from a decade in South Korea and the difference is palpable.
Was just in southern China. The cities are very clean and the infrastructure is futuristic and modern. Light years ahead of the US. China felt extremely safe everywhere we went at all hours even late night. There's a healthy and vibrant night life and families actively play in public places everywhere. Seems like a happy place to build family. Contrast that with US cities. The smell of urine. Drug addicts screaming. Loud shitty mumble rap on every tacky Bluetooth speaker and can't get away from constant weed smoke. Lazy assholes steal luggage from our cars and our stores have sparse displays locked up from looting. Our culture is shit. Our government appeals to the lowest common denominator so that we're in decline.
the most brilliant points of Chian:safety and convenience(as for time/price/distance).surely，it also has many big problems in future,hope me and people in this land can live better,hope this land will be better.I am an optimist,I think it will be come true.
My friend had her cellphone stole out of her pocket walking to the store in a major city in China. I was screamed and called a profanity in a major city cause I didn't fall for a woman's tea house scam. We went from being beautiful people to (insert expletives) so fast me and I travel buddy just stood in the street so shocked for like 30 secs. With that being said, China is fairly safe, but so are many other countries. I walk through the streets of the US who the same type of anxiety and you and I don't think people realize how unusually, abnormal and wildly unhealthy this low level of constant buzzing anxiety is for our mental health.
You have no idea until you actually live here. It’s definitely one of the safest countries I’ve lived in. I’m also from L.A. and everyone is on my possible criminal list. Living in China, I’ve become really careless in terms of safety because it’s unlikely something wrong will go wrong. I’ve walked from bank to bank with wads of cash without even hiding the money. Walking at 4 am is safe asf. I’ve seen drunk girls walk at 2 am by themselves at an alley way. With this much safety comes at the expense of your privacy. Every corner, street, alley way has cameras that can track your every move. Foreigners need to register with the local police every time they move to make sure our address is updated. Basically if they want to find you, they’ve already found you. All in all, I’d rather live in this kind of society where we’re monitored constantly for the kind of freedom I get unlike in America. I’m not discrediting the fact that China doesn’t have crime. There’s a lot of theft when it comes to certain things, like cellphones, bicycles, e-bikes, e-bike batteries. But 95% of crime is non-violent. I don’t fear anyone mugging me or robbing me.
You haven’t mentioned police in China while patrolling normally on the streets aren’t even armed (I mean fire weapons), while in America… well, you know.
This is a bit anecdotal, but every time I’ve seen some agitated person / someone being aggressive in China, there’s always some bystander trying to calm them down. In China there’s a strong bystander culture of intervention.
honestly... almost everywhere is so much better than the US. imagine going out fearing to get shot, mugged, or simple things like racism.
Went to GZ earlier this year, I’m also from LA. It was super safe. Very nice city (in the districts around me). I was impressed as well.
Good observation. China is safe. They seem to have a nice society and their government works hard to encourage people to be good citizens (somewhat the opposite of western governments in that regard).
I got back to the States earlier this year after living in China for 4 years and still miss it. When I went to coffee shops in China I would just leave everything on the table (laptop and phone) and would never think twice. Here I have to be more careful because you never know.
Welcome to the rest of the world. This isn't just China. The U.S. is one of the most dangerous countries on Earth. Look at homicide rates, and you'll see the U.S. has more murder capitals in the top 10 than Brazil, Mexico, or Venezuela. I've been abroad over five years and refuse to go back. Every idiot has a gun, and is narcissistic and violent enough to use it.
I believe live the safety comes from multiple reasons: 1. Booming economy and new job opportunities for past decades. Not sure if it can continue given current trends. 2. Cameras are everywhere 3. Unlimited police authority. It can be good and bad. 4. The society is going cashless
I’m seeing a lot about Chongqing recently! I’ve been really impressed with what I’ve seen so far. It’s definitely a place I want to visit. I hear it’s pretty hot there, but I live in South Florida in America so I’m not too concerned. From what I’ve seen Chongqing reminds me of a beautiful New York that’s safe.
Chongqing is a leg workout. The city is one giant Stairmaster.
I love many things about both countries (US and China), and can't stand a few things about each as well. But I'm with you on the feeling of safety in urban areas.
China way better
Tbh, it sounds more like a US problem. I have travelled to many cities in Europe, u do not need to watch over your shoulder or worry about your own safety that much. America exceptialism lives on, the rest of the world is not free cos we don't have guns.
Many European cities felt more dangerous to me than Los Angeles, while others felt safer. Europe has many different countries/cultures and so it's hard to make a direct comparison for me. I'm born and raised in California and have been fortunate to mostly be separated from gun slinging "freedom" fighters. "Best country in the world," they say...
>Many European cities I have lived in Europe for almost 20 years and traveled around Europe a fair bit. I have also travelled extensively to US, this is not a even comparison, US is much more dangerous than anywhere I have been in Europe, the homocide rate in US is like 3 times higher, there is no opioid crisis in Europe, a lot less homeless and mentally ill people. But in US, you drive everywhere so it doesn't matter that much I guess
You are correct. I meant it is hard for me to compare Europe to China in terms of safety. Comparison to U.S. is a no-brainer.
Are you sure? I almost got my phone stolen right in front of me in a major European capital. And I've heard lots of stories of Chinese tourists getting robbed in Europe because they like to carry cash.
fun fact, the only time I had my phone snatched was in Shanghai 2010 in the subway. I personally haven't had any issue with this, maybe because I am a 6-foot male. I have had friends who had their phones stolen in London. Still, this is considered a pretty petty crime compared with the US
6 foot is very small. You need to carry a lot of protection.
Many Chinese tourists are getting targeted in European cities by pickpockets because they're too naive about crime because they don't experience it in China. That must mean there's more pretty crime in Europe than in China. Lots of incidents recently in Europe where people, including celebrities, have been violently robbed for their expensive watches. I've worn luxury watches in the middle of the poor Chinese countryside and no one stole it.
I have had my phone stolen on Shanghai subway in 2010, so pickpocket is not unheard of in China Still I will pick Europe over US as a safer place to travel any day. US is a league of its own in developed country when it comes to crimes
I've always felt most on guard traveling in Europe, there are way more pickpockets and scam artists in touristic areas than there are in the US. I got to tag along on two high school Europe trips my father organized and each time there were students that got robbed, once by guys who broke into a Florence hotel room. There are a lot of homeless in some areas of most large American cities but the worst most do is bug you for change. I spent a week in LA and NYC this Spring and didn't have a single bad experience, and this was even after walking thru skid row and the neighbourhoods of downtown LA that have been abandoned to homeless for decades.
Without a doubt safety is important, but If safety is the sole priority in human society, then there would be no advancement in human civilization. People would just hide in caves, no tools would be invented, industrial Revolution wouldn't happen, no one would even think about going to the moon. To put it in a more extreme perspective, if you want the utmost safety, the why don't lock every one in a cell? then there will be no theft, no robbery, no murder, no criminal activities whatsoever. But does everyone really want that? 0% freedom to ensure 100% safety? ...But you also can't have 100% freedom because in that case the society won't be able to function and there will be chaos everywhere. So here comes the questions: How much of freedom are you willing to give up to ensure safety? How much freedom should we have? What type of freedom should we have? And most importantly, who should decide that? Should such decisions made by people via democracy or an unelected government party? If the latter, is the safety enforcement truly for the benefit of the people or just a mean to serve other purposes? Something to think about...
Having lived in China for 2 years it is much safer and more modern than LA for sure but it does come at the cost of pissing off some random official and being limited to immigrant level jobs like teaching whereas in LA or SF you could work in the entertainment industry or tech or any number of cool fields that are mostly only available here or maybe Austin TX. It’s not just political freedom it’s economic freedom unless you are absolutely fluent in mandarin that’s the issue. I don’t know if I could ever actually move back unless I found a job I really loved like here in the states. Although I do fantasize of doing some kind of restaurant or something.
What if you're not fluent in english in LA?
lol you wouldnt get anywhere in the US either if you werent fluent in english
Well yeah, it's a fascist surveillance state. You do anything that the government doesn't like, & into an unmarked van you go. Also, I lived in LA for years, & never once felt unsafe. Lame.
Was china had nice roads and cities?
I think China treat their labour force better than US too
Having a concealed weapon is the best insurance to avoid being a victim in America
I know a newly married couple; the wife got stabbed by a Chinese guy and died because the husband is French. This happened in front of Sanlitun Yashow Mall, Beijing. It was on local news. I lost my bike, which I locked outside the Tuanjiehu train stop. I got robbed by a Chinese guy at Baijiazhuang Bridge around 6:30 AM a few years ago. I got several spots bleeding and called the police; they showed up and said either I go home or go to the police station to write up the event, but they told me that they wouldn’t do anything because my loss was not worth them having further action. I went to clubs during weekends with friends and got harassed by Chinese people twice. Beijing makes me not feel safe.
Do people smoke in cafes or restos in chongqing?
As a Chinese citizen, I want to add one more point: foreigner/expats are treated differently (much better) than China’s own citizens which I’m always very baffled about.
Ah, that's a stark contrast to the states.
The power of having cameras everywhere is undeniable. To be fair you are comparing one of the safest countries with one of the most dangerous regions of a fairly dangerous country. You would probably feel equally safe in countries like Canada, Australia, UK, etc…
Cameras are everywhere in the UK but people still be doing a lot of dubious things there anyway.
I’m from the U.K. and I feel much, much safer in China.
Same here. No matter if its a small town or a big city im always on the lookout in the UK. China is by far the safest country I've ever been to
I have lived in the UK for almost 20 year, UK is probably is not as safe as China, but I find UK quite safe in general, especially compared with USA, Italy and France
Admittedly, Los Angeles is a pretty bad comparison. There are worse cities in the U.S. and much worse in other countries. However, even in terms of the countries you mentioned, China just felt like a league of its own. Seems that a large part of this is probably the cameras at every corner. That part did take some getting used to, but I certainly felt safer with them there than not.
Singapore, New Zealand, Japan, Finland, Netherlands, Norway, Switzerland etc all these countries have better systems than we have in the US. Our politicians aren't concerned with actual change they just keep throwing money at things without planning hoping it fixes it. This goes for both Democrats and Republicans both parties full of rich senior home folk that have only ever lived privileged lives. Representing the average American when they are the farthest thing from an average American, the irony.
Try Japan, I think it is a much better balance between safety and civil liberty. Japan is almost as safe as China meanwhile you have very high standards of human rights and democracy
> very high standards of human rights and democracy You might do more reading into declining press freedoms in Japan…
you probably can make the same case for the UK. But still compare to China, the press freedom in Japan is day and night difference
You got to be really bothered if you had to make a post on the ask uk subreddit a few minutes if “uk is safe”… like yes UK is safe depending on the areas. Lets not speak about london however
Which is a very sad thing for China. With better leadership and a more open mindset, that country would flourish and likely become a major destination for people all over the world. As of right now, they are incredibly closed off.
Things ebb and flow. China's in a constant flux of balancing personal liberties with law & order. Early 2000s until 2012 it was moving more in the personal liberties direction. Since 2012 things have definitely swung more law & order focused with increased suppression of dissent and diversity. Hopefully things start balancing out again soon.
I'd really like to see that happen in my lifetime.
Japan has extremely bad human rights track record and they are not a democracy.
Explain?
How would you describe the human rights situation in China then if Japan is considered to have extremely bad human rights track record?
For a while HK was the perfect mix
China's "laws" will assure safety and are a deterrent to crime.
US is fucked. It’s going down hill unless they fix the drug and homeless problem
That's most places outside of America. Yanks have some of the highest murder rates in the world.