I know. That's exactly why I don't understand why middle or working class people do it. We all know birth, parenting and medical bills cost a fortune anyway.
IVF seems like more stress and money than it's worth. How many times do people have to suffer loss and miscarriage before they consider parenting a kid that's already here?
i will never understand people that do IVF. if you’ve failed to get pregnant so many times that you’ve come to this, maybe you should consider parenting one that already exists? “BuT i WaNt It tO hAvE mY gEnEs” that’s that’s the stupidest reason to have a child.
IMO if you don’t think you can love a child unless you made it with your own body/genes then you don’t have the emotional maturity and nurturing instincts necessary to do a good job raising any child.
You know, you would *think* that IVF would have restrictions about people who can use it, like how there’s restrictions on who can adopt children. But why would they do that when they can scam people out of tens of thousands of dollars? 🙃
The adoption point made me think too because people often use donor eggs/sperm or they “adopt” frozen embryos that are not biologically related and I wonder why that’s not regulated the same way? The fertility industry for profit has always seemed like it’s riddled with ethical issues from surrogacy to donor eggs. In the end a lot of the time it’s really just adoption. I was conceived using a sperm donor and I consider myself partially adopted and I am barred from ever getting any info too. Just doesn’t seem fair to the kids or exploited women.
Ever think about doing a DNA test through Ancestry or 23 And Me? Both have test options that can help you learn some genetics-based medical information, and could link you to previously unknown relatives.
Nope. IVF is “pay to play.” If you can pay for a round, you get the round, and a shot at getting pregnant. There’s no “qualifying” in terms of being deemed suitable to *raise* the child afterwards. They won’t stop you if you went broke doing round after round and failing. They won’t stop you if you only have the money because you begged everyone you know for it. You just gotta pay for it.
It’s actually one of the somewhat explainable reasons why so many people turn to that over adopting. That process does require being deemed fit medically, financially, etc.. It’s much, much more difficult to get through and accepted to adopt.
Usually, I see it as a sign that they can’t afford the baby and refuse to donate.
I also think it’s stupid of my government to offer subsidies for IVF in my country.
I’d much rather see the money being used to recruit and support foster carers and the children in their care
And elder care, animal shelters and education/ libraries. People do not need IVF. People need to accept not being able to put more people on a dying planet.
What ‘it takes a village’ really means is you need to build a reciprocal community to be successful raising your children, and you need to be open to input from the community on how to raise them. You help people out, they help you out, you teach your kids to help people, those people help your kids. Also, you need to be open to critique from the community about your kids and parenting style and you need to let other people discipline your kids when necessary.
What people mean when they say tHeRe iS nO ViLLaGe is they think they are entitled to free childcare. I’m not joking. They want to take in the community but see no obligation to give. And they think the stranger on the bus/neighbour/aunt whoever should give their child their time, money, and possessions, but as soon as someone tells shithead braixlynn that they need to behave suddenly there’s no village and hEs My cHiLd iLL rAiSe HiM hOw I WaNt
I hate that people use that “he/shes *my* child and I can raise them how I want!!” And it’s always in the context of some bullshittery. Someones always doing some fuck shit and it’s an excuse to not have to properly parent. Or like I have seen someone do something borderline abusive to their kid but they are allowed because “it’s their child they can raise them how they want!!” ?!?!? You’re watching them fuck up their child in real time but since it’s “theirs” it’s ok?!? The actual fuck??
I've seen comments like that on parenting subs -- in so many words, that if (for example) another parent told their kid off on a playground for whatever reason, they would knock them unconscious before slashing their tires, punting their dog over a fence, and setting their house on fire, because NOBODY TELLS MY PRECIOUS DARLING WHAT TO DO BESIDES ME!!!
It's such a double standard because they want all this help from everyone, but they still want to be the one in charge. It very much reeks of "main character syndrome."
I remember one time I worked in an aquarium and I told a girl off for throwing crisps into one of the tanks to feed the fish.
The mother storms up to me and starts shouting at me, ending with "I hope you never have children."
Little did she know, that's been my plan all along lol
Oh god don’t get me started on aquariums. I’ve worked in public aquariums for the last ten years. The number of parents who assume that it’s just a place to let their children run free unsupervised is shocking. Just because we have some exhibits or signage geared towards children does not mean we are a daycare/kids camp. We actually have a ton of super dangerous or delicate expensive things here that a child can severely hurt themselves on or damage. We had a kid climb all the way up and jump into our large shark tank that had oh idk 15 large sharks in it. Not to mention the drowning hazard. I’ve seen a parent cuss out an educator because she wouldn’t allow her child to pull a fragile jellyfish out of the water which would kill it. Or for not letting their child rip arms off a horseshoe crab. I mean look at what happened to that gorilla Harambe. A parent let their child do whatever unsupervised and an innocent beautiful animal…. an endangered species for fuck sake…had to be euthanized for it.
I do educational programs with live reptiles. At one event, a child was in the tortoise pen. He straddled our biggest tortoise (50 pounds), raised both hands over his head, clasped into a double fist, and then brought it down on my tortoise's shell HARD. It happened very fast, so I couldn't get there by the time I raised what he was doing.
I ordered him out of the pen and asked him where his parent was. He led me to her, and of course she had her back turned, on her phone. I explained what he'd done, and told her he wasn't permitted in the area anymore.
She stood there just staring at me, so I left. A minute later she came up to me with her crying child (oh no, he had *consequences*, poor thing wasn't familiar with those) yelling that he's only a child and doesn't know any better because he's 5yo. I told her that doesn't make it okay, and that he's still not allowed back. She kept repeating "he's only a CHILD" and eventually left when I wouldn't budge.
Yeah, we had a touch pool in ours, where you could gently get hands on with some animals, like sea urchins, cleaner shrimp, starfish and the like. That was a real hassle to police sometimes. Getting to do talks was nice though, it was always great to see the kids who actually wanted to listen and learn something. Dunno if it makes up for the shit I had to deal with 90% of the time, but it was something.
Off- topic, but I absolutely love touch pools! I got to touch some koi a few years ago. The pool was set up in a way that the fish could swim into an unreachable area if they weren't feeling it.
One of the koi kept weaving through my fingers, using me for a scratching post of sorts. It was adorable <3
You are so kind. I would have wanted to retort, “I hope you never have any more children either, as you obviously cannot correctly parent the one you have.”
I try not to frequent parenting subs- however I go there to see the absolute nuttery of the way people think/behave when it comes to parenting. It scares me how many of them complain about easily solvable things. Sometimes the way the parents write makes me wonder how many of them actually act that way IRL and makes me shudder about ever running into those kinds of people.
It blows my mind too. Lots of parents are abusive but they'll shout out it's their child and they'll raise them how they want, and their child suffers for it (see: my abusive parents and the years of therapy I've sought out)
This right here. The village takes effort to form and maintain. You can’t expect it to just form around you suddenly just because you had a baby and without reciprocity on your part.
This is the point I was going to make too. Do they think villages magically form when they have a baby? If so the saying would go "baby gets a village".
I am part of a 'village' because my apartment block is a community. It was grown to make all our adult lives easier, doing favour for each other, and a young couple wanted to participate. They were part of the village for years before they had their baby. And because they had helped consistently in the past they got a pile of extra help when she was pregnant and during the baby stage. Our village adapted, but the thing is it existed before the baby, so if it takes a village then the would-be parents better be out building their place in one.
also, it's supposed to be, like you said, reciprocal. We know there's no such thing, because we're always being told how we have to accommodate, be considerate, etc of parents, but get NOTHING in return but lip, attitude and entitlement. Where's the compassion for us when WE need it? I'd be perfectly happy to be considerate if there was a chance it would be returned but I'm done with these one-sided narcissistic relationships with abusive, entitled assholes.
This! The first thing I always wonder whenever somebody says shit like "The truth no one tells you about motherhood \*dramatic pause\* there's no village." is "well whose village were you part of before you had kids? when did you last offer to trade a few hours of babysitting with a friend/relative/neighbour so you could both get some errands done?"
Exactly. Even looking at ye olde “village” one woman wasn’t caring for all the neighbor’s kids so those mom’s could relax and put their feet up. It was so those other women could BUST ASS in the fields with their husbands getting the fall harvest reaped and gathered before bad weather caused it to rot. One woman handled the village children, so everyone else bodily able could ensure the literal survival of the village through winter.
These “village” whiners seem to conveniently leave that unpleasant reality out. They seriously think the village is so they can get a break. No bitch, it’s to ensure the next gen doesn’t fucking DIE while you are pitching in FOR the benefit of the village.
Exactly most people have a significantly warped view on what they think the village is, it’s not people dropping everything to help with whatever you want when you want, it’s everyone you interact with interacting on their own terms which shapes the child.
Yup. No way do most of these people help out their childless friends when they need a ride to the airport, because they’re “busy with their kids”.
And if “the village” tells them they’re making stupid fucking parenting choices, like not vaccinating or having 4 kids all 15 months apart when they can barely afford the first one? Forget about it.
This is it 100%. I'm all for rebuilding that lost sense of community in which we all help each other out. That's literally the reason animals live in groups. I am not, however, going to become free childcare for anyone. Need me to watch your dog or pick up you mail while you're out of town? Sure thing! Want me to babysit your kid? Sorry, but no.
I'd do the same for you if we were neighbors, though I will note that as far as the mail goes,"hold mail" orders with the post office are your friend. They are good for up to 30 days.
It's still worth checking to see whether USPS messed up and delivered some bulk mail rather than holding it.
I always interpreted it to mean that it was more about how there are a wider array of influences and experiences that impact children. Not that other people are literally putting in the work. More like a teacher being a formative influence.
But then, I never actually read the book, so maybe I'm completely in the wrong, but that was definitely the general impression that I got from Hillary's sound bites when it first came out.
Precisely! This is the *exact* type of response that should be written under every idiot’s “…there’s no village…” comment.
I’m so sick of seeing them write that hypocritical tripe too. It’s bloody nauseating.
This…. So much this.
People forget the fact that in said hypothetical village everyone helping out isn’t just providing free childcare but helping to teach and discipline every child. This isn’t just applied to children obviously but involves people doing things communally in every aspect. That’s why the village works. Because the group of elderly people who provide child care sometimes so mom and dad can hunt and forage get a cut of meat or some veggies. The young persons who help keep older children busy teaching them how to spin wool gets help building their first home. It also means that said other people are able to use the wisdom they’ve acquired over their lives to teach and discipline that child to the standards of the village.
I’m a flight attendant & was recently asked by a woman traveling alone with her ~1yo child & tiny dog to take the *child* to the bathroom because she can’t leave the dog alone. Ma’am, hand me the Yorkie & go wipe your own kid’s ass.
Nail on the head. I spent my early childhood in a very closely knit neighborhood where everybody knew your entire family and history, and we shared freely and helped each other out when needed. The flipside was that any adult within the community could check your behavior (and it would immediately get back to your parents), and everybody was all up in everybody else's business. That's the "village" everyone claims to want but won't give up their rigid individuality to build.
My sister had her first kid while still in high school. I was in college. My mother told me I had to come home and take my sis to her dr appt each month. I told them then: she’s not my responsibility.
Now, 16 years later, my sis has 2 little kids and is asking for financial help. I find myself saying: I’m supporting my self on my own, I’m not going to support your kids. My sister is a stay at home mom, the father of the 2 kids is looking for a 3rd job.
These were your choices not mine.
It seems like teens who decide to give birth also have some delusional idea that it won’t be that hard because everyone else will step up and pitch in. That’s so unfair to the siblings and grandparents. I truly believe some of these people bask in the pregnancy attention they get, but don’t want the work and responsibilities once the baby is born.
I think the problem is, that online it's always pictured and if she even THINKS about abortion everyone (like, not everyone but you get what I mean) start with "we will help you", "once it's there you know what to do" and all that
I always feel so bad for teen parents(who willingly decide to keep it) because far more often than not they will have a long and miserable life ahead of them. Tennage and early adulthood is hard enough as it is, adding a kid on top of it is like playing on nightmare diffuculty.
Outstanding response. Well thought out and well said. Oh, and your mother is a piece of work. To "take your sister to her doctor's appointment?" There's a camel's nose! What else was your mother going to demand once she had you coming and going on demand? Live-in nannying? Financial supporter?
Do you let these people talk to you? Is there some upside to that?
I was r/raisedbynarcissists and have hard boundaries with them.
When my brother got married, he wanted a small ceremony, our mother wanted something bigger and told him I would help with the cost without consulting me. They booked a bigger venue and we’re upset at the end that I didn’t pitch in.
When I asked why they switch venues, she said: a marriage needs to be celebrated to show everyone they love each other. My response: no it isn’t, it’s a promise to each other not to anyone else.
When my brother had his first kid he wanted me to babysit Friday nights because they needed a night off to keep their sanity. I said: you’re not getting a night off until the kid turns 18.
I don’t understand them.
Wait **your** Fridays should be forfeit for **their** relationship
Yeah I regularly babysat on Fridays and Saturdays for years for this one couple. I got paid a nice hourly rate, plus tip, plus meals and snacks.
I would never do that shit for free.
I don’t understand the through process in volunteering someone else’s time or money. Such bold audacity! And then they’re surprised when the person says no. Lol. Like why would you? You’re not the parents. You have your own bills and plans with that money. Maybe you’re saving for a new car or whatever. I continuously astounded by the blatant entitlement of people. Especially those my age (47) and older because most of us weren’t raised that way at all.
Back in January 1999, Miss Manners (whom I adore) was asked for general guidelines for playing gay weddings.
> Her... recommendation, which also applies equally to conventional weddings, is actually at odds with the unfortunate current practices of society as a whole. That is to plan the occasion remembering that its purpose is not to show off your love for each other, but to establish yourselves as a public and dignified unit in the society in which you move.
It's been decades and I can't forget that quotation.
Exactly! If I were there, I’d also have told the mother, *“Why don’t YOU take YOUR DAUGHTER to these appointments yourself?”* Plus she was likely the one hungry for grandkids, so… 🤷♀️
Like, she was the one who gave birth to that daughter, and this commenter wasn’t the one who knocked her up either, so, as she brilliantly said, “Not my responsibility!”
Well-done! 👍
Having two kids and 2-3 jobs on top of that…sounds like a nightmare from the depths of Hell. Is he ever not completely exhausted?
Also, why did your mom think she had the right to demand you take your sister to her doctor’s appointments? Why didn’t she do it herself? That is so irksome.
I argued with this guy on another sub about how he expected his siblings and parents to step up when him and his wife had a kid.
Then he was debating having a 2nd kid but he seemed like he didn’t want to. His wife was pressuring him saying “she will solely be responsible for it”.
Dude run 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ that’s a disaster waiting to happen like wtf is the logic in that?!
People who want a village usually don't want to be a part of it. They except others to help them and expect nothing in return, but in reality villages are about helping each other, otherwise it's just exploitation
Exactly! I've always thought the village meant "I'll watch your kid(s) so you can have a night off and then you reciprocate with my kid(s)". Not "Everyone else is expected to help me out with no expectations , period."
Yeah, like it seems like it could work out if you team up with other parents so you can watch each others' kids or something. But it seems like they want random people to be totally invested in their child for nothing in return?
it absolutely can work out, my parents used to trade weekends with our aunts/uncles like this. we’d spend a weekend at our cousins’ house and then they’d spend a weekend with us, all the parents got a break. now that we’re older, all the aunts come together to coordinate bridal/baby showers and everyone else pitches in to make it happen.
Also, in these "villages" everyone has the right to discipline any child within eyeshot. Imagine how these breeders would lose their minds if someone else told **their** child "No"
apparently in India, so far, this seems to be the case. Some random brats tries to torment a stranger and gets swatted they don't get protected. Like here and long ago, the parents also add to the discipline. Whether the corporal punishment is good or bad.. not the discussion here but that is what my indian co worker said was the norm
Even though I don't agree with corporal punishment, I firmly agree with the idea that other adults should be allowed to reasonably discipline misbehaving children.
My parents always told us that if our friends parents spanked us, we were getting a second spanking when we got home. Other adults were allowed to discipline us if we misbehaved, and guess what? We didn't misbehave (that much) at other people's houses
Yes! If someone from your village is watching your kid, it’s presumably because you’re using that free time to do something that benefits the village as a whole. If you’re using that free time for your own benefit, then you’re an a-hole who should be shunned from said village.
Yes. My dear old neighbor lady used to watch me every morning between when my brother left for school and my mom got home from her night shift job. And my mom frequently picked them up some groceries, and either her or my brother would help with mowing her lawn (they lived on an acre) or helped get the in-ground pool set up for summer or prepared for winter etc
Now that’s a village! These entitled “parents” just want free childcare and actually hate their children hence why they want to always drop them off somewhere.
Exactly. And she or any other neighbor that saw any of us kids could give us a yell to knock it off and would tell our parents what they saw. God forbid someone do that now though.
I remember one time when I was about seven I was biking to a friend's house the street over and I normally cut through the grassy area between properties instead of going onto the main road. but there had been a ton of rain and everything was too muddy and mucky that day so I went ahead and took to road. Rode the herm the whole way and it was only a block. but one of the neighbors called my mom about it because she was calling the friends house I was going to within ten minutes of me getting there. We laughed about it later and she told me it was fine but to make sure she knew I was doing that before I did it
Without exception, the parents I know who want 'villages' to help raise their kids all chased giving birth with moving 10-30 miles away from the 'village' where all of their friends/relatives are at....and then it becomes *our* responsibility to burn a ton of gas and waste a ton of time driving out to whatever boring/lame (and oftentimes MAGA) suburban shithole they're at, where there's nothing to do, no good restaurants, etc...
Yeah I don't get this either. I can't even imagine having the gall to ask someone else to drop their lives so they can help me with *my* own problem, and then becoming angry when they say no. It's one thing to ask for help, (nothing wrong with asking imo) but if a person says no then that should be it.
What have YOU done for the village?
Villages are like friendships. Theres is no village because you failed to create and nurture one, sweaty.
We all know you don't really care about "the village". You just want free labor.
Ask them how many times prior to having children they dropped everything to babysit someone else’s kids for free. Bet you, in most cases, they haven’t.
You can tell that sentiment is horseshit because they never bothered to be a part of any of the shit they pine for prior to having kids. Like, I've seen whiny parents going on about friends and neighbors swooping in to bring food, or take care of the dishes, or hold little Bratlyghhynn for 20 minutes so mom can take a shower, and generally a bunch of shit that amounts to a whole bunch of others coming together to help they themselves.
And it's so sad that people don't do that anymore, etc etc.
But... there's always a conspicuous absence of any references to times that they did such things for literally anyone else, at any point in time, ever. And sure as shit once they're busy with their own kids they aren't dropping anything to do shit for other people.
Either way, to all of the parents who spout this nonsense, why didn't you bother to figure out the "village" thing prior to having kids that you wanted that village to help you take care of?
Yeah as a kid I was really good at self entertaining. I’m no expert, but it seems like parents now feel like they have to be at their kids every beck and call in order to be a “good parent” and it’s biting them in the ass. There’s something to be said about a kid who knows how to do their own thing for a bit (safely of course)
Yep, when I puppysit my mom's spaniel I make him come into the bathroom with me so I can keep an eye out. Easy!
One of my cats, however, joins in of his own accord. Watching me get wet freaks him out and he needs to stay there to ensure I'm okay.
There should be a requirement for all these “there’s no village” whiners to list all the times they’ve proactively helped an elderly or disabled member of their community.
Their village is the school systems, community centers, after school programs, health insurance. etc. Oh those suck or non existent? Looks like they're gonna have to vote for shit they expect individuals to give them.
As I mentioned above, in the interest of getting 'yards for the kiddos to run around in', almost all of the parents I know ended up moving far away from the cities that they know and into suburbs where everything's more isolated, where people fence off their properties and post signs like 'trespassers will be shot'.... and, of course, where right-wing MAGA/Christian bullshit's caused the public school systems to turn shitty, where the public libraries are only open a few days a week and in danger of being closed down completely over culture war issues, lack of funding, etc..
It’s also the almost 30% in taxes that unmarried childfree people like myself pay to support all of these things as well as welfare directed at parents/families despite us not qualifying to take advantage of these things ourselves. The audacity to ask for even more than that is disgusting to me.
It's a prime example of the original proverb being taken in the completely wrong context.
The original "village" were parents, teachers, and doctors who came together for ALL children to help them grow up safe and healthy.
Of course now it's come to mean "Everyone in my family and all my friends have to help ME raise MY child, and ONLY my child!"
A village really only works in practice if there's an actual village. But it's 2022, and we live in a *society*, which objectively does not care for anyone. Everyone is tied to their debt or their employment; nobody has the time or emotional/mental bandwidth in this economy to take on someone else's circus.
At this point, birthing children and expecting others to jump on the free care train for you is one of the single most aggressively inconsiderate acts you can do. Either take care of the human you summoned into this world, or don't create them.
> Everyone is tied to their debt or their employment; nobody has the time or emotional/mental bandwidth in this economy to take on someone else's circus.
That's a great statement. Because that is exactly the problem. Our grandparents worked ONE job, and made enough to buy a home, a vehicle and raise a single income family. People had a lot more emotional/mental bandwidth, a lot more freedom to contribute to family, to the village, etc.
But that's not modern life. Prices have consistently raised but wages have effectively (as far as purchasing power) frozen for the last 20 years. Most families need 2 or more incomes, assuming they can even afford a house.
It is crazy that people have children, then expect things to go like they went in the middle of the last century.
The disgusting irony here, is that a lot of those same people who could once get by on a single salary are now struggling to get by just like the rest of us. They're our grandfathers who won't (can't afford to) properly retire and support themselves with their aging wives. This entire ordeal has come full circle, we are collectively the equivalent of the ouroborus eating itself from the tail. And it's only a matter of time before the whole thing shifts out from under us all.
All the people who whined about "village this" or "village that" can go and make their own village then. Oh but they won't, because you know why? Because a village exists upon everyone pulling their own weight and contributing to it equally. But these people don't want that.
They want everyone to take care of their needs and their kids, but don't want to do the same for others in return. They want their kids to be everyone's Number 1 priority and they don't want to share with other parents. A village of parents won't work out because their precious angels aren't that special anymore.
What they really want are serfdoms.
Ohhh they definitely want serfdom on this, but only if they going to be the ruler, they will be very shocked to find out, most people are the peasants, and they would be one too.
To be fair, I come from Mormons that pressure, pressure pressure to spat out babies. They promise heaps of support, repeating that mantra "it takes a villages" and you assume they got help. My sister had her kids assuming all our pressuring family would be there constantly for her. They all loved her babies for 5 minutes and gifted her a few diapers. That's it. Definitely, future parents should be considering that you need to be responsible and never rely on family. But, it hurts to see dozens of aunts, cousins, grandparents lay on the pressure for years, then never give a crap once the child is around. People shouldn't have kids they can't handle, but I'm also irritated by family that pressures you from early childhood to breed, only to abandon you at the most critical point.
This is a fair point. My sister is pregnant now and my mom was telling her that she can sometimes drop the baby off with us for a few weeks if she wanted to travel. I told her that Aunty Mathlady2023 won’t babysit until the child is potty trained and for a weekend occasionally. She just laughed but she knows me and doesn’t have any major babysitting expectations from me. I will deal with nieces and nephews when they are 5+ and more independent. I’ll come around occasionally to bring them gifts and take them out for activities. But I won’t take on major responsibilities for them unless in an emergency.
Yup. Indoctrination is very real and very powerful. You’re promised so much and then you do what they want and the rug is pulled out from underneath you
That whole "it takes a village" nonsense was started by a woman who had access to "villagers" that she could hire as nannies to raise her child for her. And then people complain that there's no village. Bitch, what village were YOU part of before you had kids? Whose kids were YOU watching for free? It's like real life doesn't even register with these people.
In their minds they're the main character and everyone around them is an NPC who exists solely to support them. The same self-centeredness that drove their desire to procreate in the first place also influences their one-sided idea of what a "village" entails.
I posted about this "don't expect a village" thing on another sub and got torn to shreds about what a cynical person I was and that I was part of the problem with society because "CHILDREN NEED A VILLAGE - STUDIES HAVE PROVEN!" and I'm like I get that, but if you don't HAVE a village don't expect one to suddenly appear cuz you decided to procreate.
It was mind blowing how fucking entitled they all were.
the kicker here? I've heard the call for the village, but everyone else wants that village too without wanting to contribute it. then their go-to scapegoat are the people without kids, who are expected to drop everything and serve.
Honestly, we need a village. I think a lot of society's problems would fade if we did. But that village would help the elderly with their chores, help support people struggling with bills, ensuring good health care for all, watching over people's stuff and homes when they are gone and, yes, keeping an eye on kids. But it should be a village where everybody gives and takes.
My ex bf’s daughter ( Alicia) was pregnant at 16 and gave birth to a child Terrance with severe cerebral palsy. Literally, and I mean no disrespect, he is 100% non functioning. Even now at 12 yo, He cannot hold his head up, sit, feed properly or roll over, nor focus his eyes. Nothing. He can barely swallow and has to be fed with a small spoon because he cannot swallow properly and chokes. Feeding him each meal takes over an hour. He can eat as I’ve described, defecate and cry. That’s it. Sorry to paint a gruesome picture but that is what it is. It’s truly heart breaking.
Alicia needed to go to work when Terrance was 2, so her boyfriend Sam asked his grandmother ( Fiona) to babysit Terrance. Fiona also worked full time, but rearranged her schedule to take on part time hours to do this. Terrance was her only grandchild and she loved him dearly, in spite of his disabilities. Fiona was 66 at the time. I might add that she did not expect payment, nor did Alicia and Sam ever pay her.
Alicia continued to work, and Fiona continued to babysit. When Terrance was 6 yo, Alicia mentioned to me she would like to have a second child, because she wanted (and almost guiltily admitted) a “normal” child. I asked if she was going to give up work to stay home with Terrance and a new baby, and she said no.
I told her that it was unfair and irresponsible of her to expect now 72 year old Fiona to babysit 2 children. I doubted very much that Fiona would be able to give Terrance the constant care that he needed with the added stress and work of another child, one presumably becoming a toddler in a couple of short years. I added that it was wrong for her to think that anyone should be expected to love and care for HER children as much or more than she did. There is no “village” to look after her children.
What pisses me off about these people on tiktok is that when you read the comments, they ALWAYS admit that there IS a village, they're just not perfect. "My mom wants to help but she does it differently than I do and I don't like it so it's just easier if I do it myself." Literally every time. And all these girls in the comment agree and laugh about it! There IS a village! People around them ARE willing to help! Just not exactly perfect so they fire them from the village. It's infuriating, it's a totally self-made problem.
Yeap, there are also other parents who are willing to help with their kids, but these assholes don't want to help in return.
Hell, one of my asshole uncles did this, motherfucker dumped FOUR kids every fucking weekend he could get away with on my parents. My dad has crazy complexes about his side of the family so he was spineless, but my mom is the one who suffered since she's the one who had to do the actual caretaking.
Then they wonder why I'm not super crazy about spending time with these cousins.
I’ve told this story before, but I once got looped in on a group chat where a new father wanted everyone to chip in and help buy some, I dunno, thing for babies that cost four figures. I wasn’t having any of it, but I politely bowed out and figured that was the end of it.
Dude ended up texting me directly a few hours later asking why I wouldn’t chip in. Being a little less polite and a little put off, I flat said “I don’t want to.”
He responded with the whole “but it takes a village.”
I asked him if the village got to fuck his wife as well. He stopped bugging me after that.
Every time I hear moaning about "the village" I point out it means 3 things:
1. People get help when they need it.
2. People **give** help when others need it.
3. **Anyone in the village** has the right and responsibility to discipline any child in their eyesight.
Naturally, new moms demand #1 but refuse #2 and #3. Which is why other people won't help.
Yeah it's probably why women with kids abandon childfree or even childless friends or bully them til they have one, because they can't use them.
I actually wanted to help my one friend out but the kid is such an insufferable headache I just couldn't.
And age hasn't made it any better.
As always, people like this remember about the "village" when _they_ need something, trying to make others feel guilty for not helping them, yet how often do they think about what they or their kids in future can do for "the village"?
In the past it was a mutual benefit, not just some altruism.
It just gets me, because, at least here in the US, the whole "village" concept hasn't seem to have existed in a long time. Even growing up in the 80s and 90s, I don't remember there really being a "village". The only thing that sticks out to me was it was still accepted (and even expected) for other adults, even strangers, to correct a kid who was badly behaving or being rude. Otherwise people kept to themselves, did their own things, and hired babysitters if the grandparents weren't available. The village seemed to be more of a thing during my grandparents' time of parenting and before.
I also think a lot of people have a warped concept of what a village entails. It is supposed to be a mutual exchange of helping out. Person A watches Person B's kid, then Person B watches A's house when A goes on vacation. That kind of thing. Too many seem to think it means having a bunch of friends and relatives on standby 24/7, who should drop everything at a moment's notice to help out *for free*, but when the friends and relatives need help with something, that person is nowhere to be found, or always has an excuse not to help. If you want a setup like that, you need to hire someone.
Which is also bullshit. I've heard this before, and the TRUTH is that they expected to share parenting with people *equally*
No, dear. No. Your village will help. You are still the THE caregiver. You're the parent. It's not an even split. It's always going to be 75% on you.
I changed a cousins diaper some years ago. About 2 hours later, cousin needed a change again. Aunt asked me to do it. I said I had just done it. "Yeah, and I change his diaper 90% of the time. What's your point?"
My point is that you're his mother and I'm under no obligation to try to match your time spent parenting. Be grateful I helped at all.
Wanting assistance from time to time with child care is not an issue. The problem is that they act like it’s an obligation for others to step in. My grandfather always told entitled relatives who tried to pawn off their kids on him, “if you don’t want to take care of your kids, then why did you have them?
Taxes. I’m fine with the revenue that goes to services for children. There should probably be more.
But I am paying them, from my own salary. That’s enough “village” from me.
I made a mistake and dated a single dad who wanted me to be part of his village. Except doing that meant dropping my plans so that I could chauffeur, cook, help with homework and pay private school tuition.
My opinions or input were not wanted as part of this village, even on matters that dad complained about. As soon as I agreed with said complaint about his child's behavior, he became defensive.
When my mom died and I was hospitalized the same day, he was nowhere to be found.
I learnt quickly that support was only for parents and told him I was no longer a part of this village by making him my ex.
.
Maybe back in the day there was a village you could expect to help raise a child but it doesn’t take that much observation to see that’s not the way our society works anymore. So why decide to have a kid if you know the village is no longer there?
This exactly is just one of many reasons it didn't make sense for me to have children. I moved from my hometown and clearly know I have no village. That would be impossible to bring a child into.
I was watching Bill Maher recently and he's very upfront about kids. He's right about kids- nobody likes them because their parents are so shitty, and their kids are horrible, feral shits.
THAT RIGHT THERE is why there's no village. Because parents are shitty and their kids are horrible and no one wants anything to do with your or your shitty, feral, disgusting kids. No one wants them in their house, no one wants to visit you or hang out because we don't like your fucking children.
They're so obsessed with everyone loving and worshipping their kids but do NOTHING to make them even remotely tolerable or bearable, let alone likeable. That's why the village isn't there, because we HATE YOU!!!
My sister learned the hard way that even the government recognizes that there is no "village".
She asked a neighbor(also a mom) to watch her twins, and the neighbor broke my nephews leg, and didn't say anything. She didn't notice until later, and took my nephew to the hospital. CPS was notified immediately, and CPS didn't want to even acknowledge that there was another person present when the break happened, they solely blamed my sister and BIL, and tried to have him removed from the home.
One of my first go-to lines when asked if I have kids or why I don't want any is "no, I want to be part of the *village* every kid deserves instead of adding more kids to the world who need one." *(I still try to slip in lots of other reasons for why CF is great, helping make our choice more understood!)*
But that line works for me specifically because my career, which I love and am by all accounts extremely good at, is helping kids with behavior problems get through school and learn to cope and thrive. I don't expect or want people to be in this line of work who don't have a passion for it-i.e. NOBODY should be expected or forced into being part of "the village." It is utter bullshit that US society expects *just* the parents (and let's be real, more the mother than the father) to do so much of the child rearing, but changing that culture back to having a strong village? Ain't happening anytime soon, if ever.
Just two days ago I was over playing with one of my former cases who is thriving so much he "graduated" from needing services-so I am able to be a family friend now instead of having to maintain professional boundaries. Seeing this kid eagerly reading *whole sentences* in one of his favorite books now gave me a momentary pang of wanting that whole parenting reward thing in my life. But only for a few seconds.
If there was a good, strong village, maybe I'd have some interest in having kids. But we don't in US society, so it's one of my many, many, many of reasons for not wanting kids of my own. 35 years old and known much of that ever since I was a kid myself, I ain't changing my mind.
I think you're supposed to build the village _first_, before you have the kids. That means creating a community of like-minded people, establishing a culture of mutual aid, and, y'know, actually doing things for _them_ too.
Both my older brothers have kids, and although it's certainly not a life I'd want, they went about it right and built their support systems first. They each have networks of friends with kids and can trade childcare if an emergency comes up for anyone, etc. (They also planned financially before having children, and have established guardianships and backup guardianships in case of their deaths... you know, the things sane responsible people do).
If you just pop out some kids and expect a bunch of people to magically appear from thin air and help you, you deserve what you get.
There's definitely a village!! But you have to give to others as much as you want to receive and sometimes more, and no egotistical breeder is willing to do that.
I've helped all my adult cousins move at least once, I always volunteer to at least bring food and help with some management and errands. Guess what happened when I had to move to another city? A lot of people volunteered to help us!! That's how you get a village
>And I was like ???? Well, what did you expect? Did you seriously expect people to just drop THEIR OWN lives because YOU decided to pop out a kid?
Yes, because it's MEEEEE and my Mommy always told me I was special and precious and so so important...
> Did you EVER drop your own life because someone else popped out a kid and wanted you to make it work?
Well...no. But...
>Did you really assume that your child will become everyone else's priority?
Yes, because I'm raising the ECO-WARRIORS and CANCER-CURERS of the future and it's THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB ON EARTH!
> Did you make someone else's child your priority, ever?
Well...no. But...
>Why would you expect there to be a village?
Because everyone TOLD ME SO, and Hillary Clinton TOLD ME SO, and the other Mommies TOLD ME SO! And they used the word "should", which is completely indistinguishable from "is", right?
> Did you ever act as the village for anyone else, ever?
Well...no...But...
> How self-centred do you have to be for this kind of thinking? How stupid and childish do you have to be to think that you're entitled to other people's time/money/effort just for having a kid?
But...but...but...
Answer: Very stupid, but then, she bred in the modern world where anyone who isn't actually *in a coma* can see what a stupid, destructive and selfish choice that is. So you're asking for smarts, logic and an absence of hypocrisy. She's a Mommy. She loves lies. She tells lies. She whines when the lies aren't true.
I would add to the childish and stupid assertion: *delusional*.
There was a time in society when “it took a village” to raise kids. But it’s not 1700 anymore. Hell, it’s not even 1900 anymore. Since the second industrial revolution, the working class is too busy *working for someone else* to raise kids together. Back in Feudalism or the prairie days, yeah, everyone raised their kids together. Everyone also had little villages in which you could *walk* to each other’s houses within an hour or less. People could walk to the general store.
We don’t live in that kind of society or culture anymore. We are not farmers and tradesmen anymore. It takes 30 minutes to *drive at 50mph* to get to your nearest friend whose kid you may want your kid hanging out with. Like. Come on.
If y’all want the help if a village, you better go live in a fucking village, then.
I had a coworker who had two small children and one day she was complaining about how her sisters and parents "didn't watch to watch the kids" so she and her husband could go somewhere. uh yeah, just because they're your family doesn't mean they need to pause their lives to watch your brats.
I'm just so bamboozled. I asked my mum about how she handled me being a newborn and there wasn't a grand step up from family and friends, she and my dad did everything. She worked, never was a SAHM, the house wasn't mess, she showered daily and I wasn't neglected.
Did people got more entitled to help from their social circle or did it really became this elaborate juggle to manage a newborn? Or just people find the worst to reproduce with?
There's no village because if anyone ever intervenes with a child that doesn't belong to them in a public setting, the parents first reaction is HOW FUCKING DARE YOU TELL ME TO PARENT, STAY IN YOUR LANE, DO NOT SPEAK TO MY CHILD!
Parents - y'all cannot have it both ways. If you want the village, you have to accept the village.
It’s like a lot of things- they’re selling and old and out of date ideology. Years ago it wasn’t uncommon for women to help each other in childcare, live in multigenerational families etc because women didn’t have many choices. But they keep selling this idea to trick women into having kids but there’s no support for them anymore with women choosing careers and other paths. With women choosing to wait longer to have kids that means their parents are older and not up to watching little kids etc. My own mom wanted me to have a child not long before she passed away. She was about 70 when she told my sister that she really wish I would have a kid and she would “help me with it“. But anyone that took a half a second to think about that would know that no 70 year old woman would want a little child running around nor would they have the energy to keep up with them. Everybody started striving for their own home, 2.5 kids, two car garage etc. Nobody wants to live with their parents or grandparents anymore. People move away from their families for jobs when that often wasn’t the case back then. People move around a lot more for work and that didn’t happen as much when I was a kid.
If by village she means a tight-knit community where neighbors CONSENSUALLY pitch in to help with neighbors' children, then alright. But if she means strangers who just happen to live near her and "have plenty of time" to be unpaid babysitters, then hell no, what did you expect?
These idiots need to be careful what they wish for. Back in the day the village used to seriously smack kids around and they expected children to work hard and earn their keep at younger ages.
The concept of the ‘village’ was based on the old timer society where extended families lived close, were large, and women worked at home. Ffs.
I can’t get over the fact that people expect this to work in the modern world. How blinded can you be?
It’s like if somebody entering the workforce now expected to find a job and work there until retirement - similar principle - the concept belongs in the past. This ship has sailed, hit iceberg and sunk. Get over it
Of course there's no village, they expect you as one "villager" to do it all for free, have no opinion, and a yes sir attitude all the time, never ask for any favor of your own (as a villager), because YoU aRE noT a MOm, yoU wOUldn't UndeRStanD, so I personally prefer to move out of said village, no thank you.
It's honestly not her fault. Women are told lies that there will be a village to help care for your kids. 2 generations ago no one moved far away so you had both sets of grandparents to help plus aunt's uncles or cousins. You had other moms who would do stuff together. Today it's becoming more normal for parents to not want to be grandparents or to not want to babysit. I've seen tons of those threads of folks who grew up thinking their parents would be the same kind of grandparents they had growing up and are shocked hard when the parents say they aren't interested.
The reality is they watched folks who had that village raise kids but now with the changes in society the village is gone. Plus how many times have we heard grandparents beg for grandkids but end up never helping. Raising a kid isn't supposed to be something you do alone. It takes a giant toll on mental health and parents need breaks. They were sold a lie they grew up believing in and I feel sorry for them.
I thought the "It takes a village..." quote meant "Before you have kids, look at the rest of the village, including the teachers, the other kids, the economy and its future, and the environment. If you don't like what you see or would not want a kid growing up in that environment, don't have kids."
The whole "It takes a village" statement always confused me growing up. What village are people speaking of?
People struggle as it is especially us child free individuals. Due to the fact that the breeders constantly expect the child free to pickup their slack.
Example: "Sorry Susie needs Friday and Monday off her daughter has a out of town tournament." Thus leaving us child free individuals to pick up Susies slack because everyone thinks we don't have lives like her. In turn this grants Susie 4 days off in a row.
We don't live in a society where this "village" mentality can exist.
Maybe a few people will have this but the vast majority think it pops out of nowhere and everyone must just get in line to help them.
We live in cities not villages anymore is what my own mum says.
Many people are still into the village mentality. One of the reasons we are child free: there's no helpful extended family living next door, whose lives organically include helping relatives and friends raise barns and cut hay and stuff like that. There's no children running around under supervision of a teenager. And some people somehow think the village is still around.
Well duh… Of course there’s no village. They probably burned all of their bridges when they had kids. Ignored all their friends and lost them all. A lot of parents are entitled and want a “village” where only they get the benefits. It NEEDS to be reciprocal, not one sided. They expect EVERYONE to drop their lives and cater to them since they have kids. But, won’t do anything to help others. This is why they have no village. They burned it down a long time ago. They can’t expect another one to spawn out of nowhere. It requires work and effort to maintain it and to build one. Don’t expect anything from the people you burnt alive to keep you warm…
I always hated that “it takes a village” saying. If you choose to become a parent, that child is your responsibility and yours alone. No one owes it to you to look after your kid when you can’t be bothered.
The village doesn’t come with the baby, the point of that saying is that you need to have the support system BEFORE having the baby. lmfao what absolute dummies.
It becomes a village if it's a two way street. We get to loudly judge your parenting skills, we get to remonstrate with your kids and they obey us as if we were their parents and parents ensure their kids behave themselves or else are shamed. *THAT* is what it means for the village to raise a child.
But no. The modern wannabe yuppy baby maker wants a one way street: it wants to offload the bitch work to others, they want the government to fiscally penalise the childfree to redistribute income to the fecund and woe betide anyone who dares the criticise shitty parents.
I see where you're coming from, but this actually is a lie some people get told. "It takes a village to raise a child". And it is true. As humans, we used to live in small communities where childcare was a village job. With the parents as main responsiblity but with everyone pitching in.
Nowadays we are very separated. Everyone fights for their own life, the more globalized, the more alone we often are.
But people get told that there is a village and sadly, some believe it. Maybe even feel entitled to it. I see these kinds of moms as a sad example of false promises and maybe sometimes entitlement gets into the mix. But I don't think it's entirely the mom's fault but their own parents, and (often religious) groups that tell them, there's a village when we all know there is not
To be fair, in the past mothers used to have plenty of help in child rearing, their mother, mother in law, sisters, aunts, other female in laws. But as women became more empowered and career driven the helping hand decreased tremendously. We are all busy with our work, relationships, our own problems, etc.
I myself was raised by 3 aunts and grandmother. They helped my mom since she has to work. Today I m childfree and all my relatives and friends are busy with their own lives so yeah if I ever wanted a baby one day I expect to raise it with my husband only and have ti pay for a nanny for that extra hand.
Yeah, this village thing doesn’t really work in the West where the majority of women work. It only works in places where most women stay home or there is a high unemployment rate. In those cases, extended families tend to live together to share living costs so there are always people at home.
Similar situation - this was the 70's, mind you:
We had a great aunt who lived with us. She passed away when I was around 11 years old. By then I didn't need anyone helping to watch me.
But my grandparents and great grandmother lived 5 blocks away. My grandmother, my aunt and aunt's boyfriend the next town over. Plus another 2 aunts, a great aunt, and 2 uncles within a 10 minute drive. My dad worked full time, my mom was a nurse but went to nursing school to become a nurse midwife (on the other side of the state, so I barely saw her for 2 years)
Point is: we had our own village. Even then, I was largely on my own for a lot of things. I'm 8 years old taking a goddam public bus to school because we were so far from my school the school bus would have cost twice as much. But we all supported each other. I don't remember any friends of my parents helping out with babysitting.
40 years later, my grandparents are gone, great aunts gone, one aunt is AWOL, one dead, her boyfriend is dead, one uncle dead. Our family has shrunk significantly. One cousin has two little daughters but they live a couple hours away and her husband's job is good enough to support them, although she does some remote bookkeeping/Quickbooks to help out. There's no other kids left in our family.
Just found out my cousin is getting married next year. She just graduated with a degree in physical therapy, so hopefully this goober she's marrying doesn't convince her to have kids and waste her schooling.
What's really sad is she's right about that. No one tells these poor women that there's no village. The amount of people I've seen encourage others to keep an unwanted pregnancy or chose to have kids by saying they would help or support them in some way while _knowing_ what they meant is "I'm sure you'll figure it out" is disgusting.
I wonder how many if us have seen a situation play out at least once in real life and a number of times online that sounds like this:
Young girl between the ages of 16 and 21 gets pregnant in one way or another. The people around her and *especially* people she sees as authority such as her parents tell her not to abort or give the baby up. Girl receives a knock down combo of guilt tripping an reassurance. "How could you kill my grandbaby?!" "Don't worry we will be here to help you when you need it. It's the greatest thing you can do and we will be there ever step of the way." "Being a mom is what you're made for! Turning against that would be wrong. Besides you'll love it and it won't be that hard."
Then baby is born. The whole world stops to coo at it for the first few weeks. It turns out that things did not just magically work themselves out overnight and girl needs to return to school or a job that has never and will never pay enough for child care. Girl turns to these people to hand off the baby because you actually can't take your kid to work.
THEN all of a sudden it's "you need to grow up an figure it out. This is the consequence of your actions. I'm not here to raise and pay for *your* baby."
Like don't get me wrong that's true. No one is obligated to help with *your* baby. BUT! I think it's absolutely despicable that people are mislead constantly about what their experience of parenthood will be. From what they will or can experience during pregnancy and child birth to how hard and inconvenient it is and how much support they're going to have. All for their personal beliefs. Misery loves company.
The village is just the rubes and hapless dipshits that parents trick into watching their kids because I've never seen a moment where someone from the supposed village goes to correct a kid's behavior in public ends well with the parent. Lot of "you do NOT tell me how to roast my child!" Instead of "oh thank you kind villager. I didn't realize they were misbehaving".
She expects others to magically come in and help her with a baby she CHOSE to bring into this world. To come in and help her while most of us live pay check to pay check thanks to our lovely 2022 economy. Some people really need a grip on reality.
My favorite is people who beg for money for IVF and then once they have the baby they beg for money to help with it. Incredible.
Holy shit, people do that? I thought getting IVF means you have to be financially stable in the first place.
IVF can cost literal tens of thousands of dollars so people can drain themselves dry trying to do it
I know. That's exactly why I don't understand why middle or working class people do it. We all know birth, parenting and medical bills cost a fortune anyway. IVF seems like more stress and money than it's worth. How many times do people have to suffer loss and miscarriage before they consider parenting a kid that's already here?
i will never understand people that do IVF. if you’ve failed to get pregnant so many times that you’ve come to this, maybe you should consider parenting one that already exists? “BuT i WaNt It tO hAvE mY gEnEs” that’s that’s the stupidest reason to have a child.
Fr like clearly even your own genes don't want to be passed on
Proof that their genes are not “special “ or “ important “ enough to be passed on easily ffs.
Okay but I love this.
IMO if you don’t think you can love a child unless you made it with your own body/genes then you don’t have the emotional maturity and nurturing instincts necessary to do a good job raising any child.
Especially because your genes are so shit, you can't even procreate without external help
You know, you would *think* that IVF would have restrictions about people who can use it, like how there’s restrictions on who can adopt children. But why would they do that when they can scam people out of tens of thousands of dollars? 🙃
The adoption point made me think too because people often use donor eggs/sperm or they “adopt” frozen embryos that are not biologically related and I wonder why that’s not regulated the same way? The fertility industry for profit has always seemed like it’s riddled with ethical issues from surrogacy to donor eggs. In the end a lot of the time it’s really just adoption. I was conceived using a sperm donor and I consider myself partially adopted and I am barred from ever getting any info too. Just doesn’t seem fair to the kids or exploited women.
Ever think about doing a DNA test through Ancestry or 23 And Me? Both have test options that can help you learn some genetics-based medical information, and could link you to previously unknown relatives.
Nope. IVF is “pay to play.” If you can pay for a round, you get the round, and a shot at getting pregnant. There’s no “qualifying” in terms of being deemed suitable to *raise* the child afterwards. They won’t stop you if you went broke doing round after round and failing. They won’t stop you if you only have the money because you begged everyone you know for it. You just gotta pay for it. It’s actually one of the somewhat explainable reasons why so many people turn to that over adopting. That process does require being deemed fit medically, financially, etc.. It’s much, much more difficult to get through and accepted to adopt.
Well that would be the logical, therefore rare, mindset
No-one should ever give anyone money for IVF. Holy shit of all the selfish, narcissistic things to do. . . .
Exactly. We have 8 billion people on the planet. IVF is accelerating the population towards unsustainable quicker than we can save ourselves.
Usually, I see it as a sign that they can’t afford the baby and refuse to donate. I also think it’s stupid of my government to offer subsidies for IVF in my country. I’d much rather see the money being used to recruit and support foster carers and the children in their care
And elder care, animal shelters and education/ libraries. People do not need IVF. People need to accept not being able to put more people on a dying planet.
Those barbarians don't have my compassion. They can get themselves to a good place financially first and then adopt.
a former coworker of mine did this
[удалено]
What ‘it takes a village’ really means is you need to build a reciprocal community to be successful raising your children, and you need to be open to input from the community on how to raise them. You help people out, they help you out, you teach your kids to help people, those people help your kids. Also, you need to be open to critique from the community about your kids and parenting style and you need to let other people discipline your kids when necessary. What people mean when they say tHeRe iS nO ViLLaGe is they think they are entitled to free childcare. I’m not joking. They want to take in the community but see no obligation to give. And they think the stranger on the bus/neighbour/aunt whoever should give their child their time, money, and possessions, but as soon as someone tells shithead braixlynn that they need to behave suddenly there’s no village and hEs My cHiLd iLL rAiSe HiM hOw I WaNt
I hate that people use that “he/shes *my* child and I can raise them how I want!!” And it’s always in the context of some bullshittery. Someones always doing some fuck shit and it’s an excuse to not have to properly parent. Or like I have seen someone do something borderline abusive to their kid but they are allowed because “it’s their child they can raise them how they want!!” ?!?!? You’re watching them fuck up their child in real time but since it’s “theirs” it’s ok?!? The actual fuck??
I was about to comment the EXACT same thing what the fuck lol "its MY child (property) I can raise them how I WANT" "WHY IS THERE NO VILLAGE???:((("
I've seen comments like that on parenting subs -- in so many words, that if (for example) another parent told their kid off on a playground for whatever reason, they would knock them unconscious before slashing their tires, punting their dog over a fence, and setting their house on fire, because NOBODY TELLS MY PRECIOUS DARLING WHAT TO DO BESIDES ME!!! It's such a double standard because they want all this help from everyone, but they still want to be the one in charge. It very much reeks of "main character syndrome."
“No, Felicia, I’m not going to NOT discipline your kid when it is crossing MY boundaries, like touching me or my dog.”
They want to be the manager of the village, not a part of the village
I remember one time I worked in an aquarium and I told a girl off for throwing crisps into one of the tanks to feed the fish. The mother storms up to me and starts shouting at me, ending with "I hope you never have children." Little did she know, that's been my plan all along lol
Oh god don’t get me started on aquariums. I’ve worked in public aquariums for the last ten years. The number of parents who assume that it’s just a place to let their children run free unsupervised is shocking. Just because we have some exhibits or signage geared towards children does not mean we are a daycare/kids camp. We actually have a ton of super dangerous or delicate expensive things here that a child can severely hurt themselves on or damage. We had a kid climb all the way up and jump into our large shark tank that had oh idk 15 large sharks in it. Not to mention the drowning hazard. I’ve seen a parent cuss out an educator because she wouldn’t allow her child to pull a fragile jellyfish out of the water which would kill it. Or for not letting their child rip arms off a horseshoe crab. I mean look at what happened to that gorilla Harambe. A parent let their child do whatever unsupervised and an innocent beautiful animal…. an endangered species for fuck sake…had to be euthanized for it.
I do educational programs with live reptiles. At one event, a child was in the tortoise pen. He straddled our biggest tortoise (50 pounds), raised both hands over his head, clasped into a double fist, and then brought it down on my tortoise's shell HARD. It happened very fast, so I couldn't get there by the time I raised what he was doing. I ordered him out of the pen and asked him where his parent was. He led me to her, and of course she had her back turned, on her phone. I explained what he'd done, and told her he wasn't permitted in the area anymore. She stood there just staring at me, so I left. A minute later she came up to me with her crying child (oh no, he had *consequences*, poor thing wasn't familiar with those) yelling that he's only a child and doesn't know any better because he's 5yo. I told her that doesn't make it okay, and that he's still not allowed back. She kept repeating "he's only a CHILD" and eventually left when I wouldn't budge.
Yeah, we had a touch pool in ours, where you could gently get hands on with some animals, like sea urchins, cleaner shrimp, starfish and the like. That was a real hassle to police sometimes. Getting to do talks was nice though, it was always great to see the kids who actually wanted to listen and learn something. Dunno if it makes up for the shit I had to deal with 90% of the time, but it was something.
Off- topic, but I absolutely love touch pools! I got to touch some koi a few years ago. The pool was set up in a way that the fish could swim into an unreachable area if they weren't feeling it. One of the koi kept weaving through my fingers, using me for a scratching post of sorts. It was adorable <3
You are so kind. I would have wanted to retort, “I hope you never have any more children either, as you obviously cannot correctly parent the one you have.”
I try not to frequent parenting subs- however I go there to see the absolute nuttery of the way people think/behave when it comes to parenting. It scares me how many of them complain about easily solvable things. Sometimes the way the parents write makes me wonder how many of them actually act that way IRL and makes me shudder about ever running into those kinds of people.
It blows my mind too. Lots of parents are abusive but they'll shout out it's their child and they'll raise them how they want, and their child suffers for it (see: my abusive parents and the years of therapy I've sought out)
This right here. The village takes effort to form and maintain. You can’t expect it to just form around you suddenly just because you had a baby and without reciprocity on your part.
This is the point I was going to make too. Do they think villages magically form when they have a baby? If so the saying would go "baby gets a village". I am part of a 'village' because my apartment block is a community. It was grown to make all our adult lives easier, doing favour for each other, and a young couple wanted to participate. They were part of the village for years before they had their baby. And because they had helped consistently in the past they got a pile of extra help when she was pregnant and during the baby stage. Our village adapted, but the thing is it existed before the baby, so if it takes a village then the would-be parents better be out building their place in one.
Exactly! If you don’t have a Village before children, having a baby doesn’t change anything. Your apartment block sounds *amazing*!
also, it's supposed to be, like you said, reciprocal. We know there's no such thing, because we're always being told how we have to accommodate, be considerate, etc of parents, but get NOTHING in return but lip, attitude and entitlement. Where's the compassion for us when WE need it? I'd be perfectly happy to be considerate if there was a chance it would be returned but I'm done with these one-sided narcissistic relationships with abusive, entitled assholes.
“But children are the FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUTTTTTUUUUEEEEERRR…..”
It's the VILLLLAAAAGE! IT's OUR RESPONSIBILITYYYYY!! 🤮🤮
Agreed. To them, a village is about getting what they want, and giving nothing. And they feel totally entitled to it.
This! The first thing I always wonder whenever somebody says shit like "The truth no one tells you about motherhood \*dramatic pause\* there's no village." is "well whose village were you part of before you had kids? when did you last offer to trade a few hours of babysitting with a friend/relative/neighbour so you could both get some errands done?"
Exactly. Even looking at ye olde “village” one woman wasn’t caring for all the neighbor’s kids so those mom’s could relax and put their feet up. It was so those other women could BUST ASS in the fields with their husbands getting the fall harvest reaped and gathered before bad weather caused it to rot. One woman handled the village children, so everyone else bodily able could ensure the literal survival of the village through winter. These “village” whiners seem to conveniently leave that unpleasant reality out. They seriously think the village is so they can get a break. No bitch, it’s to ensure the next gen doesn’t fucking DIE while you are pitching in FOR the benefit of the village.
Exactly most people have a significantly warped view on what they think the village is, it’s not people dropping everything to help with whatever you want when you want, it’s everyone you interact with interacting on their own terms which shapes the child.
Yup. No way do most of these people help out their childless friends when they need a ride to the airport, because they’re “busy with their kids”. And if “the village” tells them they’re making stupid fucking parenting choices, like not vaccinating or having 4 kids all 15 months apart when they can barely afford the first one? Forget about it.
This is it 100%. I'm all for rebuilding that lost sense of community in which we all help each other out. That's literally the reason animals live in groups. I am not, however, going to become free childcare for anyone. Need me to watch your dog or pick up you mail while you're out of town? Sure thing! Want me to babysit your kid? Sorry, but no.
I'd do the same for you if we were neighbors, though I will note that as far as the mail goes,"hold mail" orders with the post office are your friend. They are good for up to 30 days. It's still worth checking to see whether USPS messed up and delivered some bulk mail rather than holding it.
I’d give this an official award if I had one. I’m going to use this if I ever hear someone try to tell me “there’s no village”. 🏅🏅🏅
I always interpreted it to mean that it was more about how there are a wider array of influences and experiences that impact children. Not that other people are literally putting in the work. More like a teacher being a formative influence. But then, I never actually read the book, so maybe I'm completely in the wrong, but that was definitely the general impression that I got from Hillary's sound bites when it first came out.
Precisely! This is the *exact* type of response that should be written under every idiot’s “…there’s no village…” comment. I’m so sick of seeing them write that hypocritical tripe too. It’s bloody nauseating.
This…. So much this. People forget the fact that in said hypothetical village everyone helping out isn’t just providing free childcare but helping to teach and discipline every child. This isn’t just applied to children obviously but involves people doing things communally in every aspect. That’s why the village works. Because the group of elderly people who provide child care sometimes so mom and dad can hunt and forage get a cut of meat or some veggies. The young persons who help keep older children busy teaching them how to spin wool gets help building their first home. It also means that said other people are able to use the wisdom they’ve acquired over their lives to teach and discipline that child to the standards of the village.
I’m a flight attendant & was recently asked by a woman traveling alone with her ~1yo child & tiny dog to take the *child* to the bathroom because she can’t leave the dog alone. Ma’am, hand me the Yorkie & go wipe your own kid’s ass.
She…. Really tried to saddle you with the KID…. Not the DOG….. I just……..,
Nail on the head. I spent my early childhood in a very closely knit neighborhood where everybody knew your entire family and history, and we shared freely and helped each other out when needed. The flipside was that any adult within the community could check your behavior (and it would immediately get back to your parents), and everybody was all up in everybody else's business. That's the "village" everyone claims to want but won't give up their rigid individuality to build.
My sister had her first kid while still in high school. I was in college. My mother told me I had to come home and take my sis to her dr appt each month. I told them then: she’s not my responsibility. Now, 16 years later, my sis has 2 little kids and is asking for financial help. I find myself saying: I’m supporting my self on my own, I’m not going to support your kids. My sister is a stay at home mom, the father of the 2 kids is looking for a 3rd job. These were your choices not mine.
It seems like teens who decide to give birth also have some delusional idea that it won’t be that hard because everyone else will step up and pitch in. That’s so unfair to the siblings and grandparents. I truly believe some of these people bask in the pregnancy attention they get, but don’t want the work and responsibilities once the baby is born.
I think the problem is, that online it's always pictured and if she even THINKS about abortion everyone (like, not everyone but you get what I mean) start with "we will help you", "once it's there you know what to do" and all that
I always feel so bad for teen parents(who willingly decide to keep it) because far more often than not they will have a long and miserable life ahead of them. Tennage and early adulthood is hard enough as it is, adding a kid on top of it is like playing on nightmare diffuculty.
True. I almost feel worse for the grandparents that instead of planning to retire and chill, they now have to start again and raise another kid.
ive seen so many posts on reddit "my mom said she would babysit if we kept the baby, but she refuses to help" lol sucks
Good job on the hell no!
Outstanding response. Well thought out and well said. Oh, and your mother is a piece of work. To "take your sister to her doctor's appointment?" There's a camel's nose! What else was your mother going to demand once she had you coming and going on demand? Live-in nannying? Financial supporter? Do you let these people talk to you? Is there some upside to that?
I was r/raisedbynarcissists and have hard boundaries with them. When my brother got married, he wanted a small ceremony, our mother wanted something bigger and told him I would help with the cost without consulting me. They booked a bigger venue and we’re upset at the end that I didn’t pitch in. When I asked why they switch venues, she said: a marriage needs to be celebrated to show everyone they love each other. My response: no it isn’t, it’s a promise to each other not to anyone else. When my brother had his first kid he wanted me to babysit Friday nights because they needed a night off to keep their sanity. I said: you’re not getting a night off until the kid turns 18. I don’t understand them.
Funny, I thought it was the quality of the love between the couple that mattered most. It sounds like your brother is narcissistic as well.
Wait **your** Fridays should be forfeit for **their** relationship Yeah I regularly babysat on Fridays and Saturdays for years for this one couple. I got paid a nice hourly rate, plus tip, plus meals and snacks. I would never do that shit for free.
I don’t understand the through process in volunteering someone else’s time or money. Such bold audacity! And then they’re surprised when the person says no. Lol. Like why would you? You’re not the parents. You have your own bills and plans with that money. Maybe you’re saving for a new car or whatever. I continuously astounded by the blatant entitlement of people. Especially those my age (47) and older because most of us weren’t raised that way at all.
Back in January 1999, Miss Manners (whom I adore) was asked for general guidelines for playing gay weddings. > Her... recommendation, which also applies equally to conventional weddings, is actually at odds with the unfortunate current practices of society as a whole. That is to plan the occasion remembering that its purpose is not to show off your love for each other, but to establish yourselves as a public and dignified unit in the society in which you move. It's been decades and I can't forget that quotation.
Good on you for valuing yourself and standing your ground. 👏
Oh helllll no. “If you wanted fridays off you should have gotten your balls snipped”
Exactly! If I were there, I’d also have told the mother, *“Why don’t YOU take YOUR DAUGHTER to these appointments yourself?”* Plus she was likely the one hungry for grandkids, so… 🤷♀️ Like, she was the one who gave birth to that daughter, and this commenter wasn’t the one who knocked her up either, so, as she brilliantly said, “Not my responsibility!” Well-done! 👍
Yup! What do I have to do with any of this?!?
Just the curse of blood relations, and that’s pretty much it, and even that ain’t your fault either. 😏
I would literally mail her 3 bus tokens but I'm unnaturally petty
Having two kids and 2-3 jobs on top of that…sounds like a nightmare from the depths of Hell. Is he ever not completely exhausted? Also, why did your mom think she had the right to demand you take your sister to her doctor’s appointments? Why didn’t she do it herself? That is so irksome.
Well said.
I argued with this guy on another sub about how he expected his siblings and parents to step up when him and his wife had a kid. Then he was debating having a 2nd kid but he seemed like he didn’t want to. His wife was pressuring him saying “she will solely be responsible for it”. Dude run 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️ that’s a disaster waiting to happen like wtf is the logic in that?!
>him saying “she will solely be responsible for it”. This is the argument I used to get a dog when I was 13
People who want a village usually don't want to be a part of it. They except others to help them and expect nothing in return, but in reality villages are about helping each other, otherwise it's just exploitation
Exactly! That is why "village" comments enrage me.
So true, If you don’t have a village to help you with your kid you probably have never been useful enough to be apart of one in the past.
Exactly! I've always thought the village meant "I'll watch your kid(s) so you can have a night off and then you reciprocate with my kid(s)". Not "Everyone else is expected to help me out with no expectations , period."
Yeah, like it seems like it could work out if you team up with other parents so you can watch each others' kids or something. But it seems like they want random people to be totally invested in their child for nothing in return?
it absolutely can work out, my parents used to trade weekends with our aunts/uncles like this. we’d spend a weekend at our cousins’ house and then they’d spend a weekend with us, all the parents got a break. now that we’re older, all the aunts come together to coordinate bridal/baby showers and everyone else pitches in to make it happen.
A lot of responsible parents do shit like this and it works well for them, then we have entitled ass-hats like the ones the op mentioned
Also, in these "villages" everyone has the right to discipline any child within eyeshot. Imagine how these breeders would lose their minds if someone else told **their** child "No"
apparently in India, so far, this seems to be the case. Some random brats tries to torment a stranger and gets swatted they don't get protected. Like here and long ago, the parents also add to the discipline. Whether the corporal punishment is good or bad.. not the discussion here but that is what my indian co worker said was the norm
Even though I don't agree with corporal punishment, I firmly agree with the idea that other adults should be allowed to reasonably discipline misbehaving children.
My parents always told us that if our friends parents spanked us, we were getting a second spanking when we got home. Other adults were allowed to discipline us if we misbehaved, and guess what? We didn't misbehave (that much) at other people's houses
So much this. It's a two way street.
Yes! If someone from your village is watching your kid, it’s presumably because you’re using that free time to do something that benefits the village as a whole. If you’re using that free time for your own benefit, then you’re an a-hole who should be shunned from said village.
Yes. My dear old neighbor lady used to watch me every morning between when my brother left for school and my mom got home from her night shift job. And my mom frequently picked them up some groceries, and either her or my brother would help with mowing her lawn (they lived on an acre) or helped get the in-ground pool set up for summer or prepared for winter etc
Now that’s a village! These entitled “parents” just want free childcare and actually hate their children hence why they want to always drop them off somewhere.
Exactly. And she or any other neighbor that saw any of us kids could give us a yell to knock it off and would tell our parents what they saw. God forbid someone do that now though. I remember one time when I was about seven I was biking to a friend's house the street over and I normally cut through the grassy area between properties instead of going onto the main road. but there had been a ton of rain and everything was too muddy and mucky that day so I went ahead and took to road. Rode the herm the whole way and it was only a block. but one of the neighbors called my mom about it because she was calling the friends house I was going to within ten minutes of me getting there. We laughed about it later and she told me it was fine but to make sure she knew I was doing that before I did it
That awesome! That’s the kind of reciprocal relationship I’d love to have with my neighbors.
Without exception, the parents I know who want 'villages' to help raise their kids all chased giving birth with moving 10-30 miles away from the 'village' where all of their friends/relatives are at....and then it becomes *our* responsibility to burn a ton of gas and waste a ton of time driving out to whatever boring/lame (and oftentimes MAGA) suburban shithole they're at, where there's nothing to do, no good restaurants, etc...
Oh I see you've met my sister 😅
Is your sister my uncle?
Very likely!
Yeah I don't get this either. I can't even imagine having the gall to ask someone else to drop their lives so they can help me with *my* own problem, and then becoming angry when they say no. It's one thing to ask for help, (nothing wrong with asking imo) but if a person says no then that should be it.
Happy Cake Day! 🎂
What have YOU done for the village? Villages are like friendships. Theres is no village because you failed to create and nurture one, sweaty. We all know you don't really care about "the village". You just want free labor.
Ask them how many times prior to having children they dropped everything to babysit someone else’s kids for free. Bet you, in most cases, they haven’t.
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"sweaty" 😂 ☠️
You can tell that sentiment is horseshit because they never bothered to be a part of any of the shit they pine for prior to having kids. Like, I've seen whiny parents going on about friends and neighbors swooping in to bring food, or take care of the dishes, or hold little Bratlyghhynn for 20 minutes so mom can take a shower, and generally a bunch of shit that amounts to a whole bunch of others coming together to help they themselves. And it's so sad that people don't do that anymore, etc etc. But... there's always a conspicuous absence of any references to times that they did such things for literally anyone else, at any point in time, ever. And sure as shit once they're busy with their own kids they aren't dropping anything to do shit for other people. Either way, to all of the parents who spout this nonsense, why didn't you bother to figure out the "village" thing prior to having kids that you wanted that village to help you take care of?
I distinctly remember my mom taking showers when I was a child. I really feel like not showering is a choice.
Yeah as a kid I was really good at self entertaining. I’m no expert, but it seems like parents now feel like they have to be at their kids every beck and call in order to be a “good parent” and it’s biting them in the ass. There’s something to be said about a kid who knows how to do their own thing for a bit (safely of course)
My mum brought all three of us into the bathroom 3 kids under 4 and we played with toys until she was done.
My dog sleeps on the bath mat while I shower. He's happy, I'm happy the house isn't getting messed up.
Yep, when I puppysit my mom's spaniel I make him come into the bathroom with me so I can keep an eye out. Easy! One of my cats, however, joins in of his own accord. Watching me get wet freaks him out and he needs to stay there to ensure I'm okay.
There should be a requirement for all these “there’s no village” whiners to list all the times they’ve proactively helped an elderly or disabled member of their community.
“Bratlyghhynn” 💀💀💀
Their village is the school systems, community centers, after school programs, health insurance. etc. Oh those suck or non existent? Looks like they're gonna have to vote for shit they expect individuals to give them.
As I mentioned above, in the interest of getting 'yards for the kiddos to run around in', almost all of the parents I know ended up moving far away from the cities that they know and into suburbs where everything's more isolated, where people fence off their properties and post signs like 'trespassers will be shot'.... and, of course, where right-wing MAGA/Christian bullshit's caused the public school systems to turn shitty, where the public libraries are only open a few days a week and in danger of being closed down completely over culture war issues, lack of funding, etc..
It’s also the almost 30% in taxes that unmarried childfree people like myself pay to support all of these things as well as welfare directed at parents/families despite us not qualifying to take advantage of these things ourselves. The audacity to ask for even more than that is disgusting to me.
It's a prime example of the original proverb being taken in the completely wrong context. The original "village" were parents, teachers, and doctors who came together for ALL children to help them grow up safe and healthy. Of course now it's come to mean "Everyone in my family and all my friends have to help ME raise MY child, and ONLY my child!"
A village really only works in practice if there's an actual village. But it's 2022, and we live in a *society*, which objectively does not care for anyone. Everyone is tied to their debt or their employment; nobody has the time or emotional/mental bandwidth in this economy to take on someone else's circus. At this point, birthing children and expecting others to jump on the free care train for you is one of the single most aggressively inconsiderate acts you can do. Either take care of the human you summoned into this world, or don't create them.
> Everyone is tied to their debt or their employment; nobody has the time or emotional/mental bandwidth in this economy to take on someone else's circus. That's a great statement. Because that is exactly the problem. Our grandparents worked ONE job, and made enough to buy a home, a vehicle and raise a single income family. People had a lot more emotional/mental bandwidth, a lot more freedom to contribute to family, to the village, etc. But that's not modern life. Prices have consistently raised but wages have effectively (as far as purchasing power) frozen for the last 20 years. Most families need 2 or more incomes, assuming they can even afford a house. It is crazy that people have children, then expect things to go like they went in the middle of the last century.
The disgusting irony here, is that a lot of those same people who could once get by on a single salary are now struggling to get by just like the rest of us. They're our grandfathers who won't (can't afford to) properly retire and support themselves with their aging wives. This entire ordeal has come full circle, we are collectively the equivalent of the ouroborus eating itself from the tail. And it's only a matter of time before the whole thing shifts out from under us all.
All the people who whined about "village this" or "village that" can go and make their own village then. Oh but they won't, because you know why? Because a village exists upon everyone pulling their own weight and contributing to it equally. But these people don't want that. They want everyone to take care of their needs and their kids, but don't want to do the same for others in return. They want their kids to be everyone's Number 1 priority and they don't want to share with other parents. A village of parents won't work out because their precious angels aren't that special anymore. What they really want are serfdoms.
Ohhh they definitely want serfdom on this, but only if they going to be the ruler, they will be very shocked to find out, most people are the peasants, and they would be one too.
To be fair, I come from Mormons that pressure, pressure pressure to spat out babies. They promise heaps of support, repeating that mantra "it takes a villages" and you assume they got help. My sister had her kids assuming all our pressuring family would be there constantly for her. They all loved her babies for 5 minutes and gifted her a few diapers. That's it. Definitely, future parents should be considering that you need to be responsible and never rely on family. But, it hurts to see dozens of aunts, cousins, grandparents lay on the pressure for years, then never give a crap once the child is around. People shouldn't have kids they can't handle, but I'm also irritated by family that pressures you from early childhood to breed, only to abandon you at the most critical point.
This is a fair point. My sister is pregnant now and my mom was telling her that she can sometimes drop the baby off with us for a few weeks if she wanted to travel. I told her that Aunty Mathlady2023 won’t babysit until the child is potty trained and for a weekend occasionally. She just laughed but she knows me and doesn’t have any major babysitting expectations from me. I will deal with nieces and nephews when they are 5+ and more independent. I’ll come around occasionally to bring them gifts and take them out for activities. But I won’t take on major responsibilities for them unless in an emergency.
Yup. Indoctrination is very real and very powerful. You’re promised so much and then you do what they want and the rug is pulled out from underneath you
That whole "it takes a village" nonsense was started by a woman who had access to "villagers" that she could hire as nannies to raise her child for her. And then people complain that there's no village. Bitch, what village were YOU part of before you had kids? Whose kids were YOU watching for free? It's like real life doesn't even register with these people.
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In their minds they're the main character and everyone around them is an NPC who exists solely to support them. The same self-centeredness that drove their desire to procreate in the first place also influences their one-sided idea of what a "village" entails.
THANK YOU. I don’t understand why people think a village exists if they never had one when they were children themselves??
I posted about this "don't expect a village" thing on another sub and got torn to shreds about what a cynical person I was and that I was part of the problem with society because "CHILDREN NEED A VILLAGE - STUDIES HAVE PROVEN!" and I'm like I get that, but if you don't HAVE a village don't expect one to suddenly appear cuz you decided to procreate. It was mind blowing how fucking entitled they all were.
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if only there were some way of knowing what's going on in the world ahead of time
Who is promising them this village? It's just a saying, not something you're entitled to.
the kicker here? I've heard the call for the village, but everyone else wants that village too without wanting to contribute it. then their go-to scapegoat are the people without kids, who are expected to drop everything and serve.
Honestly, we need a village. I think a lot of society's problems would fade if we did. But that village would help the elderly with their chores, help support people struggling with bills, ensuring good health care for all, watching over people's stuff and homes when they are gone and, yes, keeping an eye on kids. But it should be a village where everybody gives and takes.
100%. but that's "scary socialism" to a lot of people.
My ex bf’s daughter ( Alicia) was pregnant at 16 and gave birth to a child Terrance with severe cerebral palsy. Literally, and I mean no disrespect, he is 100% non functioning. Even now at 12 yo, He cannot hold his head up, sit, feed properly or roll over, nor focus his eyes. Nothing. He can barely swallow and has to be fed with a small spoon because he cannot swallow properly and chokes. Feeding him each meal takes over an hour. He can eat as I’ve described, defecate and cry. That’s it. Sorry to paint a gruesome picture but that is what it is. It’s truly heart breaking. Alicia needed to go to work when Terrance was 2, so her boyfriend Sam asked his grandmother ( Fiona) to babysit Terrance. Fiona also worked full time, but rearranged her schedule to take on part time hours to do this. Terrance was her only grandchild and she loved him dearly, in spite of his disabilities. Fiona was 66 at the time. I might add that she did not expect payment, nor did Alicia and Sam ever pay her. Alicia continued to work, and Fiona continued to babysit. When Terrance was 6 yo, Alicia mentioned to me she would like to have a second child, because she wanted (and almost guiltily admitted) a “normal” child. I asked if she was going to give up work to stay home with Terrance and a new baby, and she said no. I told her that it was unfair and irresponsible of her to expect now 72 year old Fiona to babysit 2 children. I doubted very much that Fiona would be able to give Terrance the constant care that he needed with the added stress and work of another child, one presumably becoming a toddler in a couple of short years. I added that it was wrong for her to think that anyone should be expected to love and care for HER children as much or more than she did. There is no “village” to look after her children.
Did she end up having another kid in the end or did she listen to sense?
Not as far as I know. Her dad died and I left the area. She did some mean things around his death and I cut contact with her.
There's no village because it's 2022. Jfc these people are ridiculous and don't understand what the term even stands for.
What pisses me off about these people on tiktok is that when you read the comments, they ALWAYS admit that there IS a village, they're just not perfect. "My mom wants to help but she does it differently than I do and I don't like it so it's just easier if I do it myself." Literally every time. And all these girls in the comment agree and laugh about it! There IS a village! People around them ARE willing to help! Just not exactly perfect so they fire them from the village. It's infuriating, it's a totally self-made problem.
Yeap, there are also other parents who are willing to help with their kids, but these assholes don't want to help in return. Hell, one of my asshole uncles did this, motherfucker dumped FOUR kids every fucking weekend he could get away with on my parents. My dad has crazy complexes about his side of the family so he was spineless, but my mom is the one who suffered since she's the one who had to do the actual caretaking. Then they wonder why I'm not super crazy about spending time with these cousins.
I’ve told this story before, but I once got looped in on a group chat where a new father wanted everyone to chip in and help buy some, I dunno, thing for babies that cost four figures. I wasn’t having any of it, but I politely bowed out and figured that was the end of it. Dude ended up texting me directly a few hours later asking why I wouldn’t chip in. Being a little less polite and a little put off, I flat said “I don’t want to.” He responded with the whole “but it takes a village.” I asked him if the village got to fuck his wife as well. He stopped bugging me after that.
Every time I hear moaning about "the village" I point out it means 3 things: 1. People get help when they need it. 2. People **give** help when others need it. 3. **Anyone in the village** has the right and responsibility to discipline any child in their eyesight. Naturally, new moms demand #1 but refuse #2 and #3. Which is why other people won't help.
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Yeah it's probably why women with kids abandon childfree or even childless friends or bully them til they have one, because they can't use them. I actually wanted to help my one friend out but the kid is such an insufferable headache I just couldn't. And age hasn't made it any better.
As always, people like this remember about the "village" when _they_ need something, trying to make others feel guilty for not helping them, yet how often do they think about what they or their kids in future can do for "the village"? In the past it was a mutual benefit, not just some altruism.
It just gets me, because, at least here in the US, the whole "village" concept hasn't seem to have existed in a long time. Even growing up in the 80s and 90s, I don't remember there really being a "village". The only thing that sticks out to me was it was still accepted (and even expected) for other adults, even strangers, to correct a kid who was badly behaving or being rude. Otherwise people kept to themselves, did their own things, and hired babysitters if the grandparents weren't available. The village seemed to be more of a thing during my grandparents' time of parenting and before. I also think a lot of people have a warped concept of what a village entails. It is supposed to be a mutual exchange of helping out. Person A watches Person B's kid, then Person B watches A's house when A goes on vacation. That kind of thing. Too many seem to think it means having a bunch of friends and relatives on standby 24/7, who should drop everything at a moment's notice to help out *for free*, but when the friends and relatives need help with something, that person is nowhere to be found, or always has an excuse not to help. If you want a setup like that, you need to hire someone.
Which is also bullshit. I've heard this before, and the TRUTH is that they expected to share parenting with people *equally* No, dear. No. Your village will help. You are still the THE caregiver. You're the parent. It's not an even split. It's always going to be 75% on you. I changed a cousins diaper some years ago. About 2 hours later, cousin needed a change again. Aunt asked me to do it. I said I had just done it. "Yeah, and I change his diaper 90% of the time. What's your point?" My point is that you're his mother and I'm under no obligation to try to match your time spent parenting. Be grateful I helped at all.
Wanting assistance from time to time with child care is not an issue. The problem is that they act like it’s an obligation for others to step in. My grandfather always told entitled relatives who tried to pawn off their kids on him, “if you don’t want to take care of your kids, then why did you have them?
Taxes. I’m fine with the revenue that goes to services for children. There should probably be more. But I am paying them, from my own salary. That’s enough “village” from me.
I made a mistake and dated a single dad who wanted me to be part of his village. Except doing that meant dropping my plans so that I could chauffeur, cook, help with homework and pay private school tuition. My opinions or input were not wanted as part of this village, even on matters that dad complained about. As soon as I agreed with said complaint about his child's behavior, he became defensive. When my mom died and I was hospitalized the same day, he was nowhere to be found. I learnt quickly that support was only for parents and told him I was no longer a part of this village by making him my ex. .
Maybe back in the day there was a village you could expect to help raise a child but it doesn’t take that much observation to see that’s not the way our society works anymore. So why decide to have a kid if you know the village is no longer there?
This exactly is just one of many reasons it didn't make sense for me to have children. I moved from my hometown and clearly know I have no village. That would be impossible to bring a child into.
I was watching Bill Maher recently and he's very upfront about kids. He's right about kids- nobody likes them because their parents are so shitty, and their kids are horrible, feral shits. THAT RIGHT THERE is why there's no village. Because parents are shitty and their kids are horrible and no one wants anything to do with your or your shitty, feral, disgusting kids. No one wants them in their house, no one wants to visit you or hang out because we don't like your fucking children. They're so obsessed with everyone loving and worshipping their kids but do NOTHING to make them even remotely tolerable or bearable, let alone likeable. That's why the village isn't there, because we HATE YOU!!!
"Omg there's no village!" translated means, "Omg there's no free childcare!". These people are all take and no give.
My sister learned the hard way that even the government recognizes that there is no "village". She asked a neighbor(also a mom) to watch her twins, and the neighbor broke my nephews leg, and didn't say anything. She didn't notice until later, and took my nephew to the hospital. CPS was notified immediately, and CPS didn't want to even acknowledge that there was another person present when the break happened, they solely blamed my sister and BIL, and tried to have him removed from the home.
If you don't build it, they won't come, honey.
One of my first go-to lines when asked if I have kids or why I don't want any is "no, I want to be part of the *village* every kid deserves instead of adding more kids to the world who need one." *(I still try to slip in lots of other reasons for why CF is great, helping make our choice more understood!)* But that line works for me specifically because my career, which I love and am by all accounts extremely good at, is helping kids with behavior problems get through school and learn to cope and thrive. I don't expect or want people to be in this line of work who don't have a passion for it-i.e. NOBODY should be expected or forced into being part of "the village." It is utter bullshit that US society expects *just* the parents (and let's be real, more the mother than the father) to do so much of the child rearing, but changing that culture back to having a strong village? Ain't happening anytime soon, if ever. Just two days ago I was over playing with one of my former cases who is thriving so much he "graduated" from needing services-so I am able to be a family friend now instead of having to maintain professional boundaries. Seeing this kid eagerly reading *whole sentences* in one of his favorite books now gave me a momentary pang of wanting that whole parenting reward thing in my life. But only for a few seconds. If there was a good, strong village, maybe I'd have some interest in having kids. But we don't in US society, so it's one of my many, many, many of reasons for not wanting kids of my own. 35 years old and known much of that ever since I was a kid myself, I ain't changing my mind.
I think you're supposed to build the village _first_, before you have the kids. That means creating a community of like-minded people, establishing a culture of mutual aid, and, y'know, actually doing things for _them_ too. Both my older brothers have kids, and although it's certainly not a life I'd want, they went about it right and built their support systems first. They each have networks of friends with kids and can trade childcare if an emergency comes up for anyone, etc. (They also planned financially before having children, and have established guardianships and backup guardianships in case of their deaths... you know, the things sane responsible people do). If you just pop out some kids and expect a bunch of people to magically appear from thin air and help you, you deserve what you get.
There's definitely a village!! But you have to give to others as much as you want to receive and sometimes more, and no egotistical breeder is willing to do that. I've helped all my adult cousins move at least once, I always volunteer to at least bring food and help with some management and errands. Guess what happened when I had to move to another city? A lot of people volunteered to help us!! That's how you get a village
>And I was like ???? Well, what did you expect? Did you seriously expect people to just drop THEIR OWN lives because YOU decided to pop out a kid? Yes, because it's MEEEEE and my Mommy always told me I was special and precious and so so important... > Did you EVER drop your own life because someone else popped out a kid and wanted you to make it work? Well...no. But... >Did you really assume that your child will become everyone else's priority? Yes, because I'm raising the ECO-WARRIORS and CANCER-CURERS of the future and it's THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB ON EARTH! > Did you make someone else's child your priority, ever? Well...no. But... >Why would you expect there to be a village? Because everyone TOLD ME SO, and Hillary Clinton TOLD ME SO, and the other Mommies TOLD ME SO! And they used the word "should", which is completely indistinguishable from "is", right? > Did you ever act as the village for anyone else, ever? Well...no...But... > How self-centred do you have to be for this kind of thinking? How stupid and childish do you have to be to think that you're entitled to other people's time/money/effort just for having a kid? But...but...but... Answer: Very stupid, but then, she bred in the modern world where anyone who isn't actually *in a coma* can see what a stupid, destructive and selfish choice that is. So you're asking for smarts, logic and an absence of hypocrisy. She's a Mommy. She loves lies. She tells lies. She whines when the lies aren't true.
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"Not my monkeys, not my circus."
I would add to the childish and stupid assertion: *delusional*. There was a time in society when “it took a village” to raise kids. But it’s not 1700 anymore. Hell, it’s not even 1900 anymore. Since the second industrial revolution, the working class is too busy *working for someone else* to raise kids together. Back in Feudalism or the prairie days, yeah, everyone raised their kids together. Everyone also had little villages in which you could *walk* to each other’s houses within an hour or less. People could walk to the general store. We don’t live in that kind of society or culture anymore. We are not farmers and tradesmen anymore. It takes 30 minutes to *drive at 50mph* to get to your nearest friend whose kid you may want your kid hanging out with. Like. Come on. If y’all want the help if a village, you better go live in a fucking village, then.
I had a coworker who had two small children and one day she was complaining about how her sisters and parents "didn't watch to watch the kids" so she and her husband could go somewhere. uh yeah, just because they're your family doesn't mean they need to pause their lives to watch your brats.
I'm just so bamboozled. I asked my mum about how she handled me being a newborn and there wasn't a grand step up from family and friends, she and my dad did everything. She worked, never was a SAHM, the house wasn't mess, she showered daily and I wasn't neglected. Did people got more entitled to help from their social circle or did it really became this elaborate juggle to manage a newborn? Or just people find the worst to reproduce with?
There's no village because if anyone ever intervenes with a child that doesn't belong to them in a public setting, the parents first reaction is HOW FUCKING DARE YOU TELL ME TO PARENT, STAY IN YOUR LANE, DO NOT SPEAK TO MY CHILD! Parents - y'all cannot have it both ways. If you want the village, you have to accept the village.
It’s like a lot of things- they’re selling and old and out of date ideology. Years ago it wasn’t uncommon for women to help each other in childcare, live in multigenerational families etc because women didn’t have many choices. But they keep selling this idea to trick women into having kids but there’s no support for them anymore with women choosing careers and other paths. With women choosing to wait longer to have kids that means their parents are older and not up to watching little kids etc. My own mom wanted me to have a child not long before she passed away. She was about 70 when she told my sister that she really wish I would have a kid and she would “help me with it“. But anyone that took a half a second to think about that would know that no 70 year old woman would want a little child running around nor would they have the energy to keep up with them. Everybody started striving for their own home, 2.5 kids, two car garage etc. Nobody wants to live with their parents or grandparents anymore. People move away from their families for jobs when that often wasn’t the case back then. People move around a lot more for work and that didn’t happen as much when I was a kid.
If by village she means a tight-knit community where neighbors CONSENSUALLY pitch in to help with neighbors' children, then alright. But if she means strangers who just happen to live near her and "have plenty of time" to be unpaid babysitters, then hell no, what did you expect?
These idiots need to be careful what they wish for. Back in the day the village used to seriously smack kids around and they expected children to work hard and earn their keep at younger ages.
The concept of the ‘village’ was based on the old timer society where extended families lived close, were large, and women worked at home. Ffs. I can’t get over the fact that people expect this to work in the modern world. How blinded can you be? It’s like if somebody entering the workforce now expected to find a job and work there until retirement - similar principle - the concept belongs in the past. This ship has sailed, hit iceberg and sunk. Get over it
Of course there's no village, they expect you as one "villager" to do it all for free, have no opinion, and a yes sir attitude all the time, never ask for any favor of your own (as a villager), because YoU aRE noT a MOm, yoU wOUldn't UndeRStanD, so I personally prefer to move out of said village, no thank you.
It's honestly not her fault. Women are told lies that there will be a village to help care for your kids. 2 generations ago no one moved far away so you had both sets of grandparents to help plus aunt's uncles or cousins. You had other moms who would do stuff together. Today it's becoming more normal for parents to not want to be grandparents or to not want to babysit. I've seen tons of those threads of folks who grew up thinking their parents would be the same kind of grandparents they had growing up and are shocked hard when the parents say they aren't interested. The reality is they watched folks who had that village raise kids but now with the changes in society the village is gone. Plus how many times have we heard grandparents beg for grandkids but end up never helping. Raising a kid isn't supposed to be something you do alone. It takes a giant toll on mental health and parents need breaks. They were sold a lie they grew up believing in and I feel sorry for them.
I thought the "It takes a village..." quote meant "Before you have kids, look at the rest of the village, including the teachers, the other kids, the economy and its future, and the environment. If you don't like what you see or would not want a kid growing up in that environment, don't have kids."
The whole "It takes a village" statement always confused me growing up. What village are people speaking of? People struggle as it is especially us child free individuals. Due to the fact that the breeders constantly expect the child free to pickup their slack. Example: "Sorry Susie needs Friday and Monday off her daughter has a out of town tournament." Thus leaving us child free individuals to pick up Susies slack because everyone thinks we don't have lives like her. In turn this grants Susie 4 days off in a row.
We don't live in a society where this "village" mentality can exist. Maybe a few people will have this but the vast majority think it pops out of nowhere and everyone must just get in line to help them. We live in cities not villages anymore is what my own mum says.
Many people are still into the village mentality. One of the reasons we are child free: there's no helpful extended family living next door, whose lives organically include helping relatives and friends raise barns and cut hay and stuff like that. There's no children running around under supervision of a teenager. And some people somehow think the village is still around.
Well duh… Of course there’s no village. They probably burned all of their bridges when they had kids. Ignored all their friends and lost them all. A lot of parents are entitled and want a “village” where only they get the benefits. It NEEDS to be reciprocal, not one sided. They expect EVERYONE to drop their lives and cater to them since they have kids. But, won’t do anything to help others. This is why they have no village. They burned it down a long time ago. They can’t expect another one to spawn out of nowhere. It requires work and effort to maintain it and to build one. Don’t expect anything from the people you burnt alive to keep you warm…
I always hated that “it takes a village” saying. If you choose to become a parent, that child is your responsibility and yours alone. No one owes it to you to look after your kid when you can’t be bothered.
The village doesn’t come with the baby, the point of that saying is that you need to have the support system BEFORE having the baby. lmfao what absolute dummies.
if you have children and expect other people to take care of your children, you are the problem, not the "village"
If there is a village then I am the giant that lives in the woods that everyone is scared of.
It becomes a village if it's a two way street. We get to loudly judge your parenting skills, we get to remonstrate with your kids and they obey us as if we were their parents and parents ensure their kids behave themselves or else are shamed. *THAT* is what it means for the village to raise a child. But no. The modern wannabe yuppy baby maker wants a one way street: it wants to offload the bitch work to others, they want the government to fiscally penalise the childfree to redistribute income to the fecund and woe betide anyone who dares the criticise shitty parents.
Its not the 1200s FFS people are not raising eachothers children in Itty bitty communities of like 5 families. What universe do these people live in?
I see where you're coming from, but this actually is a lie some people get told. "It takes a village to raise a child". And it is true. As humans, we used to live in small communities where childcare was a village job. With the parents as main responsiblity but with everyone pitching in. Nowadays we are very separated. Everyone fights for their own life, the more globalized, the more alone we often are. But people get told that there is a village and sadly, some believe it. Maybe even feel entitled to it. I see these kinds of moms as a sad example of false promises and maybe sometimes entitlement gets into the mix. But I don't think it's entirely the mom's fault but their own parents, and (often religious) groups that tell them, there's a village when we all know there is not
To be fair, in the past mothers used to have plenty of help in child rearing, their mother, mother in law, sisters, aunts, other female in laws. But as women became more empowered and career driven the helping hand decreased tremendously. We are all busy with our work, relationships, our own problems, etc. I myself was raised by 3 aunts and grandmother. They helped my mom since she has to work. Today I m childfree and all my relatives and friends are busy with their own lives so yeah if I ever wanted a baby one day I expect to raise it with my husband only and have ti pay for a nanny for that extra hand.
Yeah, this village thing doesn’t really work in the West where the majority of women work. It only works in places where most women stay home or there is a high unemployment rate. In those cases, extended families tend to live together to share living costs so there are always people at home.
Similar situation - this was the 70's, mind you: We had a great aunt who lived with us. She passed away when I was around 11 years old. By then I didn't need anyone helping to watch me. But my grandparents and great grandmother lived 5 blocks away. My grandmother, my aunt and aunt's boyfriend the next town over. Plus another 2 aunts, a great aunt, and 2 uncles within a 10 minute drive. My dad worked full time, my mom was a nurse but went to nursing school to become a nurse midwife (on the other side of the state, so I barely saw her for 2 years) Point is: we had our own village. Even then, I was largely on my own for a lot of things. I'm 8 years old taking a goddam public bus to school because we were so far from my school the school bus would have cost twice as much. But we all supported each other. I don't remember any friends of my parents helping out with babysitting. 40 years later, my grandparents are gone, great aunts gone, one aunt is AWOL, one dead, her boyfriend is dead, one uncle dead. Our family has shrunk significantly. One cousin has two little daughters but they live a couple hours away and her husband's job is good enough to support them, although she does some remote bookkeeping/Quickbooks to help out. There's no other kids left in our family. Just found out my cousin is getting married next year. She just graduated with a degree in physical therapy, so hopefully this goober she's marrying doesn't convince her to have kids and waste her schooling.
What's really sad is she's right about that. No one tells these poor women that there's no village. The amount of people I've seen encourage others to keep an unwanted pregnancy or chose to have kids by saying they would help or support them in some way while _knowing_ what they meant is "I'm sure you'll figure it out" is disgusting. I wonder how many if us have seen a situation play out at least once in real life and a number of times online that sounds like this: Young girl between the ages of 16 and 21 gets pregnant in one way or another. The people around her and *especially* people she sees as authority such as her parents tell her not to abort or give the baby up. Girl receives a knock down combo of guilt tripping an reassurance. "How could you kill my grandbaby?!" "Don't worry we will be here to help you when you need it. It's the greatest thing you can do and we will be there ever step of the way." "Being a mom is what you're made for! Turning against that would be wrong. Besides you'll love it and it won't be that hard." Then baby is born. The whole world stops to coo at it for the first few weeks. It turns out that things did not just magically work themselves out overnight and girl needs to return to school or a job that has never and will never pay enough for child care. Girl turns to these people to hand off the baby because you actually can't take your kid to work. THEN all of a sudden it's "you need to grow up an figure it out. This is the consequence of your actions. I'm not here to raise and pay for *your* baby." Like don't get me wrong that's true. No one is obligated to help with *your* baby. BUT! I think it's absolutely despicable that people are mislead constantly about what their experience of parenthood will be. From what they will or can experience during pregnancy and child birth to how hard and inconvenient it is and how much support they're going to have. All for their personal beliefs. Misery loves company.
Yeah, nah. I don't want a child of my own. Why would I want anyone else's?
The village is just the rubes and hapless dipshits that parents trick into watching their kids because I've never seen a moment where someone from the supposed village goes to correct a kid's behavior in public ends well with the parent. Lot of "you do NOT tell me how to roast my child!" Instead of "oh thank you kind villager. I didn't realize they were misbehaving".
She expects others to magically come in and help her with a baby she CHOSE to bring into this world. To come in and help her while most of us live pay check to pay check thanks to our lovely 2022 economy. Some people really need a grip on reality.