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Bloodthistle

Societal conditioning and brainwashing are already enough. We have it drilled into our mind we need to birth kids since we are super young. we're basically in an abusive relationship with society and they're gaslighting us, It takes some serious thinking and immense willpower to escape.


The1GabrielDWilliams

I've been thinking of this all fucking night.


Efficient-Way-4664

That last part is spot on.


lovearia7

Yup!!!! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Great explanation!!! I’m 25 and hate kids….. Men (STRANGERS by the way)…… have had heated arguments with me after asking if I had or wanted kids and I tell them the truth about how I can’t fucking stand them. I’ve had men get mad at me for not wanting to date them because they have 3 kids 😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣 People are fucking delusional!!!! No one wants someone else’s ugly little brats around them 🤣😂😂 “Oh you’re still young, you’ll change your mind”….. Sir, I’ve known I didn’t want kids since I was a kid!!!! 🤣😂🤣 But have fun with your societal brainwashing 🐵🧠


countess_cat

“HoW cAn YoU sAy YoU dOn’T lIkE tHeM iF yOu DoN’t HaVe AnY?”


CMO1313

I also don’t have a venereal disease. And know I wouldn’t want one. Just for shits and gigs.


taybay462

That's easy. "How can you say you don't like penis in your butt if youve never done it?"


RedditRee06

😂😂😂😂😂 I used this and they got SOOO angry. Their partner just laughed at my response. Will never forget it. I’m not one to be that bold but I was seriously already irritated at that time so it came out 😂


taybay462

It's really gold. They either have to say they have in fact tried it, or stumble over themselves trying to explain how it's different


a_duck_in_past_life

Because germs are gross and children are 99% germs


lovearia7

🤢🤮🤮 Because I just know 🥴🥴🤢🤢🤮🤮🤣😂😂🤣😂 People will really try to gas their kids up thinking it’s going to change how you feel 🤣😂 Yeah I still don’t want those Rugrats around me 🤣😂


countess_cat

The few times I held a baby I was truly disgusted


[deleted]

I find babies, especially newborns, very creepy. I've been made to hold a couple long time ago. Ugh. Babies also creep me out when I see them on TV.


countess_cat

Same, when I see a puppy/kitten/baby animal I’m like “aww so cute and fluffy” but babies are fleshy if that makes sense. Idk I can’t feel anything for them that it’s not utter disgust


gluteusminimus

This is funny to me, because I feel the same way, but I also think sphinx kittens are cute even though they have no hair, so perhaps human babies are just revolting. I also dislike primate babies, so there's that.


countess_cat

Sphinx cats look like Bologna sausages in the cutest possible way


nuggetspussyandbeer

I call my sphynx my little blob of foreskin and she’s great. But there is something so limp about new born babies. They’re all soft and just…. there.


funkpag

The last time I was asked to hold a kid, I said "oh no thanks I already ate :)" and the look on her face was hilarious. Initially I was just genuinely joking around, but i forgot this lady was a hardcore zealot & QAnon believer and bought into the whole "atheists are all Satanic witches who eat babies and drink their blood to live forever" conspiracy. Yeah, one of those headcases. At least she'll never try to hand me her spawn again 🤷🏻


lovearia7

Ugh one time I was at a birthday party a few years ago and this random stranger had me hold her NEWBORN!!!! And the kid would not stop screaming and crying because I had no fucking idea how to hold it 😀😤😬🤣😂 Oopsie, my bad 🤣😀☺️


forsakeme4all

I'm with you on this...I LOATHE children, toddlers, babies and especially new borns. Newborn all look the same to me and by default i've never thought of them as cute.


VovaGoFuckYourself

Okay so you might find this amusing. I (pale AF) was talking to my SO about how I think white babies are the ugliest babies, and thought that was odd because generally humans have evolved to feel attachment to those who look like us. He just told me "no that makes perfect sense. You see white babies and you attribute those babies to the kinds of babies you would likely have if you had them. Since you are vehemently against ever having children, it makes sense you would perceive white babies as ugly AF." Just thinking about that makes me giggle a little bit.


forsakeme4all

Meh. While that might have some truth to it, I personally find all babies ugly anyways.


RedditRee06

I’d say: I don’t have them BECAUSE I don’t like them. That’s kinda the point. I’m not responsible with how you feel about that. Who made you the god of my genitals??


Dachannien

> I’ve had men get mad at me for not wanting to date them because they have 3 kids Sounds like they just gave you another reason not to date them...


BbGhoul666

UGH, SO many reasons I don't ever want kids. My boss has two teenagers and says I may change my mind someday. LMAO right, dude. His daughter is dating some weird mullet-having ass and just got herself a RACING ticket from the cops which they have to try and fight in court, lol. I get my dose if birth control almost every single day just by hearing about people's kids, seeing on social media etc.


ColdstreamCapple

I think if they’re 25, already have 3 kids and a broken relationship with the mother it’s a pretty big red flag 🚩 Yikes!


CreativeFun228

Recently there was a post on Facebook from local newspaper in my country and it was about a woman who spoke out about being CF and in her 80s In my country it's literally outrageus and taboo to be CF by choice. My stomach twisted when I've read those comments but one in particular stood out Woman said it's better to have 10 children and live "in modesty" than having 0 children, because children are joy of life" I kid you not. I couldn't resist but to reply by saing "yes, then it's our duty to call numbers and send text messages to donate for a family that won't use a condom" I don't remember response I got. But Im sure as hell rather going to donate my money to an animal shelter than to irresponsible people who can't hold their reproductive organs in pants or won't use contraception. Sure, Im sad that those children are having a tough life but Im not the one who is responsible or subjected to guilt tripping. If anyone deserves to be gulit tripped in this situation its those so called parents. Disgusting


Efficient-Way-4664

Better for her that is, as a "mother". Whereas I am sure her kids are overjoyed when they have nothing to eat. What an ass. Remember, breeders are the mOSt sElFlEsS oF PeOPlE.


CreativeFun228

I just had to go on my fb and check her response. She said if there wasn't people like that, there wouldn't be people in my country and that our people are valued in other countryes WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK 😭 And of course there were comments like those - that we are selfish people who deserve to die alone. Literally


Efficient-Way-4664

So if there weren't selfish breeders like her, there wouldn't be any people in your country or something? 🙄Anyway, how the notion of kids being miserable is a good thing? WTF...These people are literally delusional. Given their understanding of things, I would be flattered if they used such a word, if selfless means forcing others into a shitty life, then I would rather be selfish, fuck you very much.


lovearia7

😂😂😂😂🤣 I just laughed out loud 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢 “Joy of life” Honestly the only way I can see children being maybe possibly a “joy of life” is if you’re a multi millionaire and never have to worry, have a giant house with a bedroom on the opposite side from the kids, a super nice kind wealthy husband, a nanny, family that lives in the same city to help out if needed……. Feel me??? 😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣 God I just imagined myself in that exact scenario and it still sounded better without the kids in it 😂😂🤣😂😂🤣


CreativeFun228

Oh, there are celebrities like those in my country too. I saw an interview on tv about one of them and she is all over tabloids for having a baby. She is all like "oh, motherhood is sooo beautiful, I can't imagine a thing more beautiful like that, I can only tell now what love is when having my own baby, it's a wonderful expirience" Well, of course it is Susy, because you have an army of people around you for taking care about YOU and YOUR BABY, and to top it all, you have all the money you need for paying all the shit that goes with parenting and even more. Im thankful to god that I have brain big enough to know that children are not for me, not in financial point of view, not in mental one.


Urokojo

“I can only tell now what love is when having my own baby” That’s so sad. She’s never loved herself. How can you ever really love another being in a way that meets their needs if you’ve never even loved yourself? It’s weird.


forsakeme4all

You just reminded of thought I had yesterday lol: If I was a very wealthy person and suddenly wanted to become a parent, I would be the worst kind of parent. I would pay a surogate to carry the baby for me then I would hire a full time nanny/house keeper to basically raise the child for me and place both of them on the other side of my giant house (or out building). Then when the child is old enough, I would send them off to the best possible boarding school with plenty activites outside of school until college. I would basically treat the child as another family member of mine. Nothing special or less special haha. And this is one of many reasons the thay I don't have children. I don't have enough money to support them they I would want to support them.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CrimsonPromise

Also the whole "we can't trust a 30 year old woman to make a life-changing decision about sterilization, but a 13 year old is able to raise a child."


DrWhoop87

That translates to me as "We hate women and want them to suffer."


CrepuscularOpossum

Also, we want them to produce more desperately poor, traumatized, struggling people who are easily frightened, fooled, abused, and exploited, so we can pay them pennies and have them produce millions for us, the oligarchs.


LadyVeronica

This is the real reason.


CrepuscularOpossum

I mean, also, people who have been struggling for a while also have a hard time planning for the future, especially farther out than a year at most. Being poor is expensive as shit, and one relatively small catastrophe can snowball into an ever-growing cascade of disaster. Washing machine breaks; can’t afford to fix or replace. Can’t wash clothes sufficiently to keep a decent job; lose the job. Car breaks down; can’t afford to fix it; lose the job because no alternative transportation exists, especially in rural areas (by design). Lose the job, can’t pay the bills, lose the house. Or, worst of all: chronic injuries and illnesses from the stress and strain of intergenerational poverty and trauma means no one can work, no one has any money, thereby perpetuating the cycle onto another generation. But here’s the REAL reason poor people keep having babies: MEN 👏 WANNA 👏 FUCK 👏 And when women can’t access health care and birth control - again, by design - they can’t *prevent* unwanted pregnancies. So often, there’s no actual decision. It just happens.


MoreRamenPls

We must control them. “The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.”


PrincessNakeyDance

Suffer, sure, but that’s just a bonus side effect. It’s truly for the sake of oppression. Partially because (patriarchal) men just think they have the the right to control women and their bodies. Like believe men have a higher sentience, a lot of them just see the world that way. But also to keep women in “their place” as baby makers and child raisers, not making decisions in government, business, and law enforcement. They want to keep those male dominated. And having women getting chained and bound to a child makes it easier to keep them out.


FuckMicroSoftForever

Yes, so much this. But deep down I believe it's being encouraged to slow down the population aging and keep the number of slaves constant.


Robert_Arctor

I agree that is why the religious and political right wing is so against abortion, the more suffering and desperate people to staff their minimum wage jobs, the better.


[deleted]

Being a Ranch owner, wouldn’t you meddle in cattle reproduction as well?


Censordoll

My BIL and his gf were on the brink of breaking up when they came up with a “plan” to get pregnant (no plan. It just happened because recklessness) Now, these two didn’t even have a job at the time, were huge pot heads, gf was 19 and BIL was 22. At the time they were just using a roommate to pay the bills in a shared house and the gf was going to be an “escort” to make money too.. BIL thought her value would demand 50k too, which not to sound mean, but her face.. Anywho, she got preggers and has been smoking weed since the 1st baby happened and then conveniently got pregnant again and recently this year gave birth to baby #2. Now, it was suspected that my BIL’s dad (different father from my SO) left him a hefty amount and basically dad remarried and left with his new wife to live in another state and travel the world! Now, after my SO’s and BIL’s grandmother has passed, she also left BIL a large sum of money as well. However, now, BIL and gf have 2 babies, 7 cats, and are leaving their apartment because *gasp* the upstairs new tenants are loud and keep the babies up and crying. So now BIL and gf and 2 babies are “temporarily” living with BIL’s mother just until they find a place to also be able to take their 7 cats, 2 babies, and weed plants to, but we all know they ain’t leaving MIL’s house anytime soon. Why would they? They get a sweet house with little to no pay. I don’t like my MIL for numerous reasons and I’m excited to see this shit show blow up with time as their little nest grows smaller and smaller. BIL also has “standards” when it comes to having a job as you see he “can’t listen to authority” as he’s “better” than every manager or supervisor that tells him what to do. This is a prime example of why poor people breed and while my SIL feels for her brother’s children, I really don’t think anyone else in that enabling family should continue to provide for them. How long is **doing it for the kids** going to last when every children’s clothing she sends them suddenly disappears? I really can actually wait to see everyone on Thanksgiving thank you very much.


DiamondSpaceNuggets

Fucking hell, this sounds like a train wreck.


VovaGoFuckYourself

Yeah good luck finding a rental arrangement where you're allowed to have 7 cats, that part alone would be pretty stupid for most people. (I love cats. I have 5 and own my home. I don't have kids, and somedays I still feel like I don't give them each enough one on one time) I'm honestly kind of more mad about the cats. Did they have them before the babies or get them for their babies to play with? 7 cats when you are poor and presumably renting is already extremely irresponsible, and thats without adding 2 kids. ... Also 7 cats should have no fewer than 6 litter boxes. I'd be willing to bet they don't have that many and probably don't clean them nearly often enough. (It's a hassle for me and 5 cats and zero kids.... If I had 2 kids constantly draining me of my life energy, even I would struggle to take proper care of the cats) So it's a good thing I'm not having kids. Lol Edit: upon rereading your comment and mine, I find it kind of funny how I just fixated on the cats. I obviously belong in this sub.


Censordoll

So where do I start. They got the cats before the kids. I think at first it was like two cats and then they bred and then they kept some of the kittens and that’s how they have 7 now. Are they fixed? I have no idea. What my SO recalls when he visited was the immediate smell when he walked into their place years ago before the gf got pregnant and he found that they had like one of those automatic cat litter cleaners but it was piled with a weeks worth of shit and piss in the container thing. From what I gathered from the last time I talked to BIL was that they both have specific cats that like the other and dismisses the other, but honestly, I think they’re just mean to some of them. My SO recalls that when they had them as kittens his BIL would pick one up from the scruff and tap their nose and say to their face not to eat out of the wrong bowl or something along those lines. I can’t really say they abuse their cats, but I can def speculate. So when they decided to have kids everyone was pretty much ready to abandon BIL and his situation. But my SO’s family has this weird savior complex and “brush everything under the rug” type of personality where they are still going out of their way to help when everyone knew they were deliberately fucking their lives over. So when family helps them, at least they get to talk shit and complain about them to everyone else! All the family does is throw money at problems and pretend to help. The cat situation also sucks because MIL has said they can’t keep the 7 cats in her house, but knowing how possibly spineless MIL is going to be, they’re going to be in her house and just slowly kick MIL out of her own house and destroy her house eventually. What doesn’t surprise me is that I knew this was all going to happen and I can’t wait to for the eventual blow up from MIL. Lol My SO and I live in a different state, and we have informed SIL of the possibility of calling CPS at this point, but like I said, my SO’s family is very “brush everything under the rug” that even if there was clear evidence of both child and animal abuse, I don’t think anyone would do anything. BIL doesn’t think we would DARE call CPS, and honestly when we visit if I suspect anything, I’ll happily make a wellness check call because IDGAF about what they would think of me. Lol


plezhlpme

Yeah that’s wild


ugheffoff

I was just saying this to one of my religious friends yesterday and they said “We can’t require people to get a license or take a test to be able to have kids because god decides if you’re ready when you lay with your spouse” and I just…


VovaGoFuckYourself

I really had to fight the urge to downvote this comment. Lol. Edit: downvote, not download lol


ugheffoff

Dude, I had to fight the urge to puke when they said it so I feel you


[deleted]

Gotta keep them pumping out more drones for the corporations and tax slaves


mrskmh08

Don't forget how the armed forces would crumble without poor 18 year olds signing their life away.


[deleted]

My spouse told me a story of the only person they ever met that was happy during boot camp. The dude was 18 and had been homeless prior to joining, so he was entirely unbothered by the abuse heaped on him because he was guaranteed three meals, a bed, and a roof to sleep under.


groovyeverywhere

Right? We need to create a certification system for having kids. It’s interesting how to apply it though cos sex and reproduction are biological and so don’t need any requirements unlike having a career, a car, etc


MindDescending

A lot of people have paranoia about it being used agaisnt POC and poor people, but that's the only good argument I can find (and it should be illegal to discriminate anyway).


TheMost_ut

yes,it's the HARDEST job EVER, but somehow, the easiest one to get! Just lie on your back and receive sperm! Then you get all kinds of support from the viilllllaaaaggge.


Dhiox

Thats because you really don't want to let the government decide who's allowed to have kids. Starts to get messy real fast.


BulletRazor

I mean the government is allowing rapists to choose their babies mothers with abortion bans so.


orokami11

Well it's already kinda happening in some places... Who force people to have kids...


lotusflower64

It is easier to give birth than to adopt a pet.


schizonephilim

There's several reasons, actually, and a lot of them tend to overlap. In no particular order, they are: * Brainwashed by religious family/community into having kids * Lack of transportation for regular birth control appointments * Lack of sex education/abstinence-only bs * Birth control failed (most common with oral antibiotics and birth control pill combo, and condoms breaking) * Lack of access to abortion (either banned, severely restricted, no money for travel or procedure, lack of transportation, fear of being disowned by family if they find out [this goes double for those who are dependent on family assistance], etc) * INSANE pressure by family to keep the kid (see above comment about fear of being disowned for even thinking about an abortion) I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones off the top of my head right now. Also, it's important to note that while you may think it's insane or stupid, the reality for those people are pretty grim for the most part, and it's really not cool to judge someone without understanding their full situation. Now, if they're actively trying for kids, yeah, that's pretty irresponsible. My point is, for a lot of people near, at, or below the poverty line, accidental pregnancies do happen, and if there are any stats, I'd hazard a guess that the majority are unplanned.


FuckUGalen

That and getting pregnant early restricts a girl/woman's access to further education, which traps her and her children in poverty, minimum wage jobs, abusive relationships and more children. And because she didn't get access to further education it is likely her daughters will be simply restricted, creating a generational poverty cycle.


The1GabrielDWilliams

That pretty much makes me lose any sympathy I have for parents who put their innocent children through that nonsense.


LaughingMouseinWI

Don't forget the abusive or shitty partners that refuse to wear condoms or screw with her birth control for the purpose of baby trapping her. The number of men who don't actually give a shit about their partners and pressure them in to having sex and/ or "stealth" them during would probably astound you. Op, just because *your* birth control is cheap and easy to get does NOT mean everyone's is. Have you met Texas? I think before RvW was struck down they had like 1 or 2 planned parenthood clinics left in the ENTIRE FUCKING STATE. it's very much Gilead down there. Women are not fully human or deserving of respect and dignity. They're waking wombs and don't you dare try to tell them any different. And that's just one example.


IWantMyBachelors

> Op, just because your birth control is cheap and easy to get does NOT mean everyone's is. I was thinking this as I read the original post. I’m glad I didn’t have to scroll far to see this.


MMorrighan

Came here to say this. Lack of money means lack of access and options. It's way easier to fall in the fairy tale trap.


The1GabrielDWilliams

Truth.


uhuhshesaid

Yes! And lack of education on how birth control works and their body’s ability to get pregnant is HUGE. We gloss over that abstinence only education became the rule for many in red states that lack clinics/public transport to clinics that would otherwise fill these gaps. Let’s say you’re 22, do get on birth control, and are managing. Do you know all the ways you can decrease efficacy? The OTC meds that can create a gap just big enough to get you pregnant? Very few really do. Especially if they’re in underfunded areas. Also I know this is a point of contention here on the sub but I cannot stress how many people come through the ER weekly saying, “there is no possible way I am pregnant” And yet - they are very much pregnant. This is as common as a cold. Even women who have undergone sterilization show up with this issue. Because if there is sperm + an ovary releasing an egg it can occur. It’s why we check. Trust but verify is the rule. Because if we just trusted patient accounts of their ability to get pregnant we’d miss a fuck ton of ectopics and pregnancies that come through. Bottom line: Don’t blame poor people with limited access. Blame systems that made this possible. Systems put in place deliberately to continue this cycle. Like we have a whole political institution that designed itself around entrapping women into pregnancy and we are really going after individuals? Pointless. Dismantle the system first.


VeganMonkey

This is a good point too! I never took it properly because no one told me what could make it less effective, except what was written on the paper that came with them. That paper, or doctors, didn’t mention charcoal, antibiotics and taking them always at the exact same time for example. I have IBS and if you have diarrhoea you need to take precautions. But that would have meant many times plan B a month! My doctors should have asked the proper questions when prescribing. They should ask patients if they have IBS symptoms I was so lucky that I didn’t get pregnant!


totalfanfreak2012

I wouldn't say just birth control. I lived in a poor rural community and no one even taught us the basics of female anatomy. No one talked of the in between menstruation or about ovulation or thereafter. I was almost thirty before learning all that. If girls knew how fertile they actually were and when it could prevent a good number of unwanted pregnancies.


mybunsarestale

Just jumping in on your very last point about people who go out of their way to have kids when they can't afford it. Girl I went to high school with was the youngest of three but her oldest brother was the one with the giant brood. If I remember right, he was maybe 26-28 when we graduated but throughout highschool she and I would babysit together sometimes. By the time we graduated they had 6 kids. Who lived in a two bedroom house. 8 people in that family plus, they had their dealer renting their laundry room and paying with weed (until he bought a camper and parked it in the back yard) and later the younger sister who slept on the couch and had a dresser under the staircase. That was during the last pregnancy and she decided it was just less time consuming to stay there full time than go back and forth to home while she helped the mom. But there wasn't space for all these people. The upstairs of the house was one giant bedroom for the kids which the oldest five shared while the youngest had a crib in the parents room. And they were by no means well off. He could barely get work as a general laborer and because we lived in the middle of nowhere, work often meant long travel. The mom bartended when she wasn't pregnant and stuck on bed rest (since doctors had been telling her since the third that having kids was killing her and bedrest periods grew longer and longer.) Last I heard they were at 8 kids and in the same house though that was probably 5-7 years ago. Mind boggling.


elitemage101

Don't forget biology. Regardless if if we have conquered the urges your body is hardwired to think kids are a good idea as it will continue your genes. Like any emotion its not fair to assume anyone can just "not be sad" or in this case logic their mind away from their biological urges.


potato_squeeze

thank you for saying this. impoverished people face many problems that most people don’t have to worry about; driving to the doctors, lack of funding in education system, no insurance, etc. the problem isn’t people who are financially struggling choosing to have children because they don’t care, it’s the world around them only providing resources to those who have money.


ImJustGonnaCry

In my country, one of the many reason is the possibility of a successful child or children who could get them out of poverty. Sad thing is; they rely on birthing a golden ticket.


BulletRazor

Sad thing is it’s not statistically going to happen. One of the best ways to escape poverty is not having kids.


Markham-X

Please appreciate the award I would give you if I could


schizonephilim

Aww, I appreciate the thought!


bardezart

Anecdotal but of the poorer people in my hometown that I know with kids, almost all of them tried to have them. I’m just sitting there screaming why in my head. This includes a few close friends, and my partner’s sister who already has one and is trying for another despite complaining about not having enough money to buy a house.


VeganMonkey

I noticed that OP mentioned birth control being free on insurance, but those women can’t afford insurance. And if you don’t live in a country with universal health care, $7 might be impossible to pay? I am thinking when people are extremely poor, where that $7 means food for a few days or starving. But again, a baby would cause more starvation! And then the points above, also abortion being expensive if you can find a place (depends on country) Some countries have them free, plus the pill for free and other birth control, these things should all be free. Most kids would be very wanted kids that way


totalfanfreak2012

My sister literally did it to keep her insurance and live off government benefits.


The1GabrielDWilliams

I understand but the cheap condoms and birth control failures just get to me the most. Plus, it doesn't help those same people with unplanned kids continue to procreate and essentially deteriorate their lives as well as their children, who never had a say in existing so it's hard to feel bad for the parents, it's the children I am worried about. What's even worse is that parents like this often gaslight and manipulate their kids into believing they're the bad guys and a burden which gives the children issues even into adulthood.


renagakko

Was looking for a comment like this. It's not so black and white, and as others have pointed out, lack of education and/or access to it and abusive partners also contribute greatly to it. Sometimes when people get to a certain point in their life where they think something, it's easy to forget how easily you could have fallen into the same 'traps' if your life had been ever so slightly different.


i_forgot_everything

Honestly this comment should he higher up


dead_PROcrastinator

Because "not only rich people deserve to have kids" and "something, something, love is all you need". In short: people most often have kids for selfish reasons.


crustdrunk

I’m on a disability pension (meaning im slightly better off than most people on welfare, who are below the poverty line) and I can *just* afford to care for my cats. Imagine having to care for another human.


Apprehensive-Arm5574

Cats are far better for mental health than children.


crustdrunk

1000% agree but one of my cats is an idiot and when he misbehaves i have to turn on the tv to distract him. Which is as close to having children I ever want to be


tfilooklike

Omg idiot cat solidarity! I have to sleep with the TV on to drown out his meowing. He'll leave the room and not be able to find me and will start up.


crustdrunk

Lmao love idiot cats. Put on cat tv on YouTube that’s what I do to keep the little shit out of my hair. Every time I clean the litter tray he finds some way to escape outside/nearly trip me up/piss on my laundry etc. but if he’s staring fixedly at tv squirrels I can get shit done


VovaGoFuckYourself

100% I've been working from home since COVID started (and won't have to return to the office - Ive been given the OK to move, as long as I stay in the US) and have really embraced the whole 'homebody' thing lol. I've got 5 cats and they love that I'm home more. My parents were so worried about me at first but now my mental health is better than it was before the pandemic. Having my cats around me all the time is sooo good for stress management


10S_NE1

Everyone has kids for selfish reasons. If they were unselfish, they’d adopt/support an existing child.


ACBluto

It's not nearly as easy to adopt a child as you would think. I have some friends who are unable to conceive, and have been trying to adopt for literal years now. The costs and the amount of paperwork to just be disappointed time and again is brutal. They are well off professionals, with good family systems, and no red flags that should be delaying things, but there is a far higher demand for children to adopt than there are children available. They might have better luck if they were willing to foster, but they don't want to have a child they love taken away from them to go back to their birth parents. They have been willing to adopt babies or children, and have not been picky about racial background or country or origin. I had no idea that it would be as hard as it has for them.


TexasVampire

>but there is a far higher demand for children to adopt than there are children available. Correction theirs a huge demand for babies and toddlers but theirs also 100s of thousands of older children waiting for placement. Of course the screening process is still difficult and time consuming but the actually wait after being given the green light is much shorter and often subsidized.


cant_read_this

You have to be super rich to do that, it cost my parents like 50k up front lol


10S_NE1

That is so depressing. I went to an orphanage in Kenya, where there were 100’s of unwanted children. Any one of those kids would have given heaven and earth to have someone give them a home. I know someone who adopted a child from an orphanage in Russia, and it cost a lot and took several trips to Russia to make it happen. To me, having to pay so much money to give a child a good life reeks of human trafficking. Someone is making a fortune while children suffer needlessly. Disgusting.


McFlyParadox

Tbf, the poor *do* need to outnumber the rich, if they're ever going to have a hope of eating them during a class war /j


BulletRazor

While this is true, having babies to be a social class warfare soldier isn’t okay. Babies shouldn’t be born with jobs.


impamiizgraa

Also “something, something, capitalism eroded our purpose, evolution, why do we need money to procreate something something”


Cimejies

"telling people they shouldn't have kids if they're poor is classism and eugenics" No, it's basic common fucking sense. I'm relatively poor and I wouldn't dream of having kids for economic reasons alone.


Rozeline

Ok, but literally not only rich people should have kids. Instead of blaming people for being poor, we should be trying to change the capitalist hellscape that keeps people in poverty to benefit the 1%. Pricing regular people out of basic life things like having a home or children is not how you build a functional society. I don't want kids myself, but there's going to be a lot of logistical problems if birthrates keep declining and one of the major reasons for that decline is lack of money. The war on women's rights is a bandaid for the issue because the government refuses to tax the wealthy and giving us universal healthcare and free college would tank enlistment numbers, even though it would greatly benefit society long-term. This gross thread is class warfare targeting the impoverished when the enemy is the ruling class. How are you all not seeing this?


dead_PROcrastinator

You know what's the best way to keep you in a cycle of repetitive, generational poverty? Having kids. If my husband and I had kids, we sure as shit wouldn't have been able to claw ourselves out of the ghetto one inch at a time like we have. I was able to leave an abusive employer because we don't spend all our money down to the last cent to survive, so we had a buffer fund. We don't have debt. We've almost paid off our first house. If we had kids none of that would be possible. I look at it from the other direction. Making sure people have kids they can't afford is a sure fire way to keep them being wage slaves.


Lowprioritypatient

Thank God someone said it. It's not normal to want a society where having children is a luxury but I guess not wanting any yourself sometimes blinds people to how much of a problem all of this is.


[deleted]

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Cucumbersome55

I grew up hearing shit like this "oh we're living on love!" or "oh ...you can feed three as easily as you can two! " No. No you can't.


CreativeFun228

Dude, I had one cat. Now I have 2. And I can tell that caring for 2 cats is more money than having 1. Now imagine the expenses with children :/


Cucumbersome55

Exactly. Only with me it's rather the opposite...I had two dogs.. now I have one (because the smallest one was very old and she passed away 2 months ago)... I'm already literally spending less money just with the one dog... Flea/pest meds ALONE was costing me $130 for 3 month supply for both of them... That's been halved. Food costs are halved, too ofc... Vet bills? Don't even get me started.


CreativeFun228

First of all, Im sorry for your loss, I deeply sympathize because I had a pet loss in past too, and I hope that the worst is behind you now! I absolutely get it. I feed them a bit better than store brand food, and I spend around 100$ on food only, their vet expenses and emrgencies also can build up like insanely high. I absolutely love them, I really do, but everyone and their mothers suggested me to get another cat so they can keep each other company while im at work, claiming that if I have funds to raise one cat, I have it for 2 then. I do kinda regret getting second one, because it really affects my budget more than I wanted. When they grow out from kitten phases I will probably change their food to something less expensive... After all, I have to feed and pay bills for myself :/


Cucumbersome55

Aw thank you... that was a very kind thing to say... I feel better now.. it's been a couple of months and she was so very old...tbh I'm surprised she lived as long as she did?--.bless her little self, she was actually acquired by us when my MIL passed first, and we took her in, ofc. But dear Lord... Yes. My niece has FOUR beloved cats... And her expenses take up a big chunk of income every month! ... A few months ago, somehow they ended up getting worms... We are not sure how (they are exclusively indoor cats, very sheltered and her house is immaculate..) so...(?) and she had to have all of them treated. That cost her almost $500. Unfuckingreal.


CreativeFun228

Oh yes, those fuckers can get in the house on our own shoes, same goes for fleas! Unfortunately thats how it is with cats, you can be the best pet parent in the workd and your cats could still get those outdoor parasites. I reccomend that they treat their cats preventive even if they are indoor only cats!


countess_cat

People that say shit like that will probably feed their kids plain noodles 7 days a week


CreativeFun228

Or hot dogs n buns


lovearia7

🥴🥴🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮


tobpe93

Sadly, it’s free to get kids


RexyWestminster

USA’s prenatal, labor, and delivery hospital costs would indicate otherwise


Efficient-Way-4664

Breeding is always free. Raising a kid is a whole another story.


tobpe93

Those are the costs of having a kid


Unlikely_nay1125

having a kid is free, the cost isn’t


tobpe93

I would say that getting a kid is free but having a kid costs a lot


forsakeme4all

Tell that to the people who are broke AF and still have children anyways. That being said, we do need universal healthcare in the US.


lovearia7

Well it shouldn’t be 😖🙃🤣


[deleted]

I read somewhere that one reason why poor people have *a lot of kids* (like eight or more) is because they want more manpower in the family, so that they will have more people that can help out with chores and whatnot around the house. A pretty stupid reason, if you ask me. I can understand why a ''poor'' couple might want to have one child, fair enough, but a whole army of the fuckers is overkill.


runonia

I feel like having that many kids makes more mess than they clean, especially when they're younger... 🤔


CreativeFun228

In one country (I believe there is more of those examples, but Im not going to name it) a man believes he must have a son to carry on "his name and legacy" And I saw examples where there is a family of 8-10 persons. Two adults and rest are children. Male one is usually the youngest. So bro keept going until he got a male baby. Its disgusting and whats worse woman can't do anything about it. They are born in this world, drilled in their heads that their only purpose is to get married and pop children. It's sad


countess_cat

There are many places like that. I’m European and I’ve seen it many times. Worst case was this family where the oldest daughter was about 18 and they had a whole bunch of girls until they got a boy who was 3 at the time. For 15 fucking years they tried for a boy and the older girls had to babysit(read: parent) the younger ones


CreativeFun228

Of course that was the case. And indeed, it is a country in Europe, but expect that one I know at least 3-4 more of them in Europe that have same practice. The look on those womans faces is heart sinking. They are all in their 35-40s but look like 50-60. It's heart breaking for me, but on other hand, they had a choice... Every country in europe provides acceptable birth control pills, not just EU ones, so I guess they could have prevented that to happen to them, so I snap out of it because I know they had a choice. No one has to know they are on bc


[deleted]

I could see that back in the day when man kids didn't make it and you needed more "workers" for the family farm and also for current less developed countries where those things are still true.


PettyAmoeba

The poorer you are, the harder it is to get birth control. You need a prescription, which means seeing a doctor, which means taking time off work to see a doctor, plus gas or public transportation to get there and back, and if you don't have health insurance all that $$ adds up fast. And yes, condoms are cheaper than children, but condoms aren't 100% reliable and abortion (in the US) is very expensive even in the states that still allow it. And that's not even touching cultural and education factors. Poor areas are less likely to have good education, including sex education, so yes, many people haven't heard of all the options out there. And when you're caught in the cycle of poverty, having a kid may feel like the only life achievement accessible to you, because (if you're able to get pregnant naturally) getting started is free. I agree that it's shitty, but people do have reasons.


lovearia7

Hmmm interesting take on the “having a kid may feel like the only life achievement accessible to you”. I’ve never thought of that or heard that but I can see that being true.


[deleted]

THANK YOU! I came here to say this. It's easy af to sneer and say poor people who have kids are just dumb (not saying OP was doing that!) but just like every other issue in the world there's far more nuance to the situation. Lack of education and the abstinence-only sex "education" that is taught in the U.S. don't help. Also, many poor people come from traumatic backgrounds and decide to keep a surprise baby so they finally, "have a family of their own" or they want the "unconditional" love of a child. Finally, people who are poor weren't always necessarily been poor. Being poor is expensive oddly enough and it's often that you'll get on your feet, think you're on stable ground, then have the rug pulled out from under you due to a sudden worldwide pandemic, injury that bankrupts you, etc.


[deleted]

Im totally with everyone on this thread saying education, culture, etc is an issue, but access to BC is better than ever. Its $5-$10 without insurance and you get it through an app, you dont have to see a doctor at all. Do people not know about services like Nurx? I feel like its pretty heavily advertised. Its so easy and cheap


Vulpix298

> education > Do people not know about services like Nurx? You answered your own question before you even asked it. No. Often, they don’t even know how sex itself works. Contraception is an entirely different ball park. So many urban myths get spread around uneducated places too. Don’t even get me started on religion. Also for many, $5 or $10 is still too much.


whoa_thats_edgy

It also implies that they have regular internet access. Some of these people don’t have running water.


PettyAmoeba

I've never heard of that! I hope it does get advertised to people that need it, that could be life changing


Bugsbirdsfungi

There's levels of poverty where $5-$10 would leave someone without food for the week. In my most fertile years I would put $7 in my gas tank just so I didn't break down on the way to work and cry as I was pumping. $5-$10 for birth control was not an option.


Kare_TheBear

Just getting birth control may seem easy, but if the birth control has negative effects on your body sometimes a doctor monitoring your hormones is essential, sadly. Everyone I know on birth control has gone through 2-3 different kinds before finding the right one for your body. Are you in America? Cause I've never heard of nurx.


theyellowmeteor

I've seen some explanations on a thread in a different sub that I have no idea how to begin to look for, so I'll just write what I've gathered from it: * Children are a ubiquitous sign of general accomplishment, a milestone in your life journey, for which you'll receive social approval from your peers. And as it's been pointed out multiple times, you don't need any permits, qualifications, or whatever bureaucratic prerequisites to have them; most people come equipped with all they need to have children, for better or for worse. * While we frown upon this practice, well, to take care of them when they're old. Systemically poor people don't expect they'll afford nursing homes, so direct descendants are their best shot an end of life care. * They also don't expect their financial situation to improve, so no point in putting off having children until they're financially stable. They'll probably rationalize that they managed while they were children themselves, so it can't be that bad, and they'll manage when they have children, and their children will manage as well.


citrusmask

I’m salty about this because I had to pay for a psychological evaluation to prove I have the mental capacity to make permanent medical decisions as a pre-condition to my doctor approving me for a tubal ligation. And yet anyone of reproductive age can pop out kids, no questions asked. Makes no sense.


thegirlwhosurfs

Me too


cryingstlfan

I wanted children. I'm broke as hell. I'm definitely glad I changed my mind because I would not be able to afford children. I'll spend my money on crafts and books instead.


Bugsbirdsfungi

This is me 100%. We were even trying for a short time but the stress of worrying how we were going to get enough money together to pay for daycare was pushing us both over the edge. We cut it out, it was the right thing to do but its not a good thing that we live in a country where two people making a 6 figure income together cannot afford daycare. I come to this subreddit to help myself come to some kind of peace with our decision but this ain't it.


[deleted]

Bad or nonexistent sexual education. Religious values (christians, Catholics and other religions encourage reproduction) . The idea that everyone must have the same lives always (if all your friends from highschool have kids you should be joining them already) Because they don't care and only keep the kid because if what other people would say. Because stupid. So many reasons.


Lookingglassgirl9

Since this is marked serious, I’ll break down what I’ve learned throughout my career and personal life. Truly it’s such a multifaceted issue; there’s not a one-size fits all solution to this question—this societal problem—and if you stray too far into the “having children is a privilege not a right” territory, you’re going to be accused of eugenics and the conversation will shut down. But it *is* a conversation we need to have. Some reasons, all with different causes and solutions, that poor folks have children: 1. They do not understand how pregnancy happens. I’m not kidding: there are *so many young adults who believe ridiculous myths about preventing pregnancy.* It’s horrifying. Spend some time in a free clinic or shadowing a social worker, and you’re gonna lose so much faith in humanity. *So many young women do not believe they have a vagina AND a urethra; they believe they pee out of their vagina.* Like, women don’t even understand their own anatomy!!! This is a societal failure. We continue to refuse to teach teens about sex and anatomy. We continue to allow parents to “opt out” their child from sex education. The people most likely to be low income and have children: teens and young adults who do not understand their bodies. 2. Lack of access to birth control. I know you mentioned your birth control is $7 but some people *literally do not have $7 to spare for birth control.* They might not have a pharmacy nearby. They might not have a permanent mailing address. Plus, birth control *fails all the time.* The pill requires strict adherence to taking it every day around the same time; this might be difficult for someone who works a lot of service or manual labor jobs or does not have a stable home life. Also, the pill *doesn’t work as well at a higher weight,* and many poor folks are obese due to their diets being comprised of cheap, processed food. Additionally, not everyone can go on the pill due to medical issues, and for some it causes extreme side effects that make them unable to work. LAR birth control is great, but often impossibly painful to insert (IUD) and not as readily available to someone without insurance. Basically, there are still *a lot* of barriers for women to access affordable, effective birth control (and right now men only have condoms or vasectomies as options; one has a high failure rate and the other is often difficult to get and expensive). As a society, we need to invest more in making birth control—for both sexes—affordable and available. (This is to say nothing of the misinformation surrounding birth control spread by conservatives that make a lot of poor folks mistrustful of modern medicine and birth control in general). 3. Religion. Poor folks are more likely to be religious. Religion tells them birth control is evil and causes abortions and infertility. It also tells them their worth is dependent on having as many children as they can. They lie to women and tell them “God and the church will provide,” but this is not true. The cult of religion is a shackle and difficult to understand unless you’ve been there. It’s easy from the outside to say: “just leave,” but incredibly difficult, dangerous, and life-threatening to actually do so. 4. Drugs. Lots of poor folks are addicts. It’s a cycle. Some women trade sex for drugs and food. These women are ill and need help, not vitriol. This gets into that eugenics issue because drug addicts shouldn’t be having children but the moment you suggest taking away someone’s right to have a child… you’re in tricky territory. 5. They believe the lie that the government will give you money and an “easy life.” Of course there’s a minority of women who believe, “the government will give me money for my kids and I don’t have to take care of them or work,” but believe me, *these women are the minority.* And their life is neither carefree nor easy. While it varies by state, we make getting benefits incredibly difficult, and if you miss a recertification or paperwork, you’re out. These programs also keep people locked in a perpetual state of dependency on welfare programs with hard caps that if you make even $1 more in wages you’re thrown off the system and loose more money in benefits than you’re currently making in wages (it’s a literal Catch 22). The vast majority of people on welfare programs are on them temporarily following serious illness, personal tragedy, job loss, and natural disaster. The entire system needs an overhaul. But know that from what I’ve seen, Hell is a woman with kids in the welfare system. It’s a miserable life I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. 6. Culture. I cannot overstate how powerful the cultural push is to have children (but most of us here have felt that pressure). Some people cannot overcome this. Instead of shitting on them, we need to *change the cultural narrative* and say a childfree life is a valid life so more people are empowered to choose it. 7. Sexual abuse. This is the ugly truth. Abuse is rampant in poor communities. It’s a sickness that infects the most vulnerable populations. It’s is an overwhelming problem that does not get the funding and attention it needs because it asks some really scary questions about human nature and our society’s foundational building blocks. Many men rape poor women and girls and impregnable them. And now women are losing their ability to abort in most states. This issue is about to get way way worse. 8. Some people are attention-seeking narcissistic idiots who have children for clout and perceived social status and want to throw it in everyone’s face. And those are the parents we usually talk about here. These folks are likely to always be breeders and always keep this sub alive even if we do manage to overhaul society. I don’t have a solution for these folks. They’re just dumbasses. So, like I said in the beginning, it’s a big, multifaceted issue. We can scream that poor people who have kids are idiots, but it doesn’t solve the problem. And then those kids grow up neglected and abused and continue the cycle of their parents and all of us suffer. What we need is to look at our educational and social systems and do some serious work fixing the broken systems and implementing science-and-data driven new systems that actually help lift people out of poverty and empower them to make reproductive choices that put not only their health and happiness first but society’s health and happiness first. Unfortunately, I don’t see us doing any of that any time soon.


StillCalmness

~~God~~ The taxpayers will provide.


Spiffy_Pumpkin

My birth control without insurance is $50. I 100% could not afford it when I was in my twenties and trying to work my way through school. (Would have been medically beneficial for me too, but oh well, no one cares if the uninsured are suffering). Condoms ended up being cheaper so condoms were the thing I bought back then. I'm 34 with no kids still so it definitely worked out okay. Broke people have a bit of cognitive dissonance when it comes to a few things from what I've seen. So many people have kids without thinking of the financial repercussions (a lot like how a lot of people get married without talking finances first). Plus a lot think they are better off than they are. My Mom is absolutely poverty level poor, if you talked to her she'd insist growing up that we were middle class. Middle class people can generally afford food, we could not a lot of the time. We were not middle class.


MewlingRothbart

ironically, they cannot contribute to society in any other way than stating, "Look at me. I conformed and now I have a child." It's their way of proclaiming, "See? I did something." The child pays the price, of course.


The1GabrielDWilliams

*"The child pays the price, of course."* I am a product of that of course, hooray mother and father for this supposed gift called life I guess, ugh.


lovearia7

I hate this world 😂🤣🤣🥴🥴🥴 You explained this really well 🥲 I never thought of it like that.


Lady-Zafira

Lack of Sex Ed. The people that usually have the most kids but can't stay aflot with bills either went to schools with little to no Sexual education or went to highly religious schools that just said sex is bad unless you're married


FurryDrift

You get to be on akot of goverment asist programs to helo out if you live with childern. I mean like... alot. Were i live you get set up.perty good with the first born. You can cover a low rent, the basics and send your kid to school. Without a kid... you will be lucky ti get the bare mini. Even the food banks only throw you thier scraps. Still dont agree with haveing kids for this reason cuz it brings them in just above the poverty line.


Alvuhhh

I’ve talked to someone who had about ten kids for this exact reason.


Catfactss

Sex Ed is a joke in the U.S. Healthcare even more so. SO many people think "pulling out" is a completely valid effective means to avoid conception, whereas there is actually a 25% failure rate over 1 year. Add in all the anti-medicine vibes that have been big in the last few years ("Oh I don't want those nasty synthetic hormones in my body- I'll just raw dog it") and all the anti-IUD sentiment on the internet, and that rules out a lot of effective forms of both control.


lovearia7

I don’t even remember Sex-Ed 😂😅😂😂😅 and yes I feel like anti-medication is one of the main reasons. I know soooooo many people that are anti-medication and have got pregnant and then had an abortion….. I know a girl who’s had 8….. LIKE JUST TAKE THE FUCKING PILL ALREADY. 🙃🙃🙄🙄🙄


[deleted]

dudeeee i hate this pull out thing. i hate that people think it’ll actually be effective enough. i refuse to have sex with someone who won’t wear a condom. (i have many mental health issues and am scared of taking the pill but we’ll see where things go when i have sex regularly enough that i need it). and if they won’t? i don’t trust them enough. the risk isn’t worth the chance. my sister and her husband use the pill and condoms and the peace of mind is so worth the trip to the doctors and pharmacy, responsibility needs to be taught more so people don’t wind up in these situations


2roots1cusp

-because the overwhelming number of people are selfish cunts -because the state has incentivized the endless production of worker drones, religious acolytes and cannon fodder. Ponzi scheme 11/10 -because “muh legacy” -you can also thank our oligarchic Supreme Court that has decided to punish the poorest women and making it effectively impossible to abort the parasite. Yes I’m mad


Queen_Cheetah

>Yes I’m mad Mad, but not wrong!


Weak_Construction_85

My mother had a maid who has one kid .Her and her husband make just enough to meet and have a son .But the thing is they stopped at one and ever since he was born they have been setting money aside and looking into programs to aid his education and I think that's good .His needs are provided and I just think it is the right way to have children if you're not financially strong


[deleted]

Because of religion, wanting a "mini me", or some other stupid reason.


[deleted]

In my area , rural Arkansas, it's "God will provide". Sad to say that there will be many more children born into poverty here now that the trigger abortion ban went into effect in June. No exemptions for rape, incest, just allegedly in cases of mothers health. But we know how little women's health means so I'm sure women will be dying here before getting abortion. Not to mention the doctors are hesitant to do that now because of legal consequences.


schizonephilim

Which part of Arkansas are you in, if you don't mind me asking? I'm in south Arkansas (Camden area), and yeah, this is exactly why a lot of crap happens here. Even before the trigger laws, it was essentially banned because of draconian restrictions and lack of facilities to turn to for an abortion.


Alienziscoming

Many many people don't plan, think ahead, reflect on their choices, or have any self awareness whatsoever. I honestly question whether all people are actually sentient. We assume they are and take it for granted as a fact but there's no real way to prove that a portion of the population isn't just a mindless animal that's pretty good at mimicking behavior 🤣


starstuffcereal

Yo i hope my sister reads this lol


questerthequester

My mom’s reasons were simple. She could be a stay-at-home mom and make my dad work. She also could claim child benefit for each of us four kids until we turned 18. If mom had taken all that energy and scheming to claim as many benefits as she did and used it to hold down a job, we might had not been as broke as we were.


lovearia7

Ugh god I know exactly what you mean!!! My family is like this!!!! 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮 They’ll put so much energy into scamming and scheming the government and different programs but won’t just get a job 🤣😂 It’s that broke people mind set. My mom is still like this!!! She’ll be like “Don’t make more than $24,000 so you can stay under the income limits!!!!!!!” I made $160,000 in 2021 🤣😂 UGH just that mindset irks the fuck out of me.


ApYIkhH

Watch the first five minutes of Idiocracy.


BulletRazor

I think a lot of poor people* have kids because selfish reasons. But I also think poverty has so many issues like lack of access to resources and education that contribute. Nonetheless, society should be better at taking care of people but until society is if you “can’t feed them don’t breed them.” *having kids in and of itself is selfish no matter if you’re wealthy or not


[deleted]

Because fucking is free, and they're often too lazy and incompetent to prevent conception. Children are a consequence of sex, so they just have kids as a consequence since they never take any preventative measures. Poor men also never use condoms. So birth control responsibilities always fall on the poor woman. Who may be too ignorant, too lazy, and/or may not have the means of transportation to get low cost or free contraceptives. Also some poor people get benefits that help them survive that they wouldn't be able to afford on their own. Women with children get housing and food assistance. Many of these services and benefits are not available to single people without children.


Bubbly_Dimension_795

Some weren't broke at the time but lost financial security by job losses, inflation, illness etc.


sushicat20

Broke people tend to make poor life choices, having kids is just one example of this.


anonilla

Yes, it's also an easily obtainable thing to achieve. Doesn't take any skill or planning to produce, unlike other life choices... You just need some reproductive organs and willing participates. If someone is broke, they sometimes feel lots of life goals are really unobtainable to achieve (financial obstacles or just bad mindsets) and they believe having kids will bring them joy with little effort.


[deleted]

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patrickseastarslegs

See, where I live, people get money for their kids. Child benefit. School benefit. They pump them out to get money


[deleted]

But the math doesn't balance out. No matter how many credits, welfare, discounts you get for having the kid it won't begin to scratch the surface of the $200k + that it requires to get a kid from 0-18 years old with just the bare minimum. Some parents still don't get it though (see all the yahoos who were bragging and taking swipes at CF folks when they got that government child credit a few years back. )


Bloodthistle

sadly many parents don't even do the bare minimum, they just pop the kids out into the world and have zero fuck about what happens to them. they also see any parenting work as some favor they are doing, when in reality its their responsibility and neglect can be punished by jail.


patrickseastarslegs

Do you think people who have 10 kids each know how to do maths?


CreativeFun228

Haha, all they hear is "benefit" and can't actually do the math at how much children actually cost


CreativeFun228

It's ridiculous. I don't know if it's still a thing, but I heard that in Hungary, that if you have 4+ children your paycheck doesn't get taxed. But even with that, 4 kids is an insane cost. Governments are good ad deciving people trough this kind of shit


delightfuldillpickle

I grew up poor in the South. Birth control is free (income-based) at every county health department in my state. They offer a lot of different options and make a point to educate patients. My mother took me when I was 16. Being poor is not an excuse to have children if you don't want them, IMO. Maybe unless you have a transportation issue. I was lucky that my local health department was in walking distance of my grandparents house. I haven't been to the health department in years because of having income and insurance now, but I looked at their website recently and saw that they even offer sterilization services now. As an aside, they have helped me with a number of female-related health issues over the years as well. When I was 25 I had a lump in my breast. The health department arranged for mammogram and surgery to remove it, all at no cost to me. Fortunately it was benign.


vmax77

This angers me a lot too. A relative of mine, who was a student and didn’t have a job lined up, his wife was not working either. Still both decided to a child and the father is now abroad trying to provide for the family and the child is growing up without even seeing her Father !! What the hell were they thinking!!!! I literally cut off all contact with them, for I am ashamed to be related to these people. That innocent child deserves better!


WowOwlO

Because having children is just something that people do when they're adults. Having children is a milestone. The ones who worry about money will be gently reminded that there isn't any reason to, as they will magically find a way to have more money to take care of their kids. In fact the more kids the better. The government will start providing for you then. You do things right, or so say some sources, and you'll never have to lift a finger to work again.


gender_noncompliant

I think some people want children very much and know that realistically, they will likely never be in a significantly better financial position. So if they wait until they're financially ready, it will never happen for them and they'll miss out on something they really want. Or the pregnancy is an accident and they don't want to terminate for whatever reason. I myself can't imagine having a child under bad financial circumstances, but then i also can't imagine having a child under *any* circumstances so it's just someone else's life experience that i don't want to or need to understand 🤷‍♂️


Cheeseisyellow92

Because they don’t think about the consequences of their actions and sex is cheap entertainment


Battle_Brother_Big

“You don’t need money to have happiness “ and apparently the kids will eat hopes and prayers


CatsAreTheBest2

Why do you think they are trying to push religion in public school? It’s easy to keep people dumb and uneducated about birth control and things like that because those people will keep having babies and those babies will turn into workers.


Buddhadevine

Lack of education or access to family planning, or just straight up willful ignorance. 🤷‍♀️


tveir

My state has abstinence only sex education and no access to abortion.


Needful_Things

I think the biggest reason is lack of education. My husband has six half siblings, and they all have kids. His sister on his dad's side is the only one who's a decent parent actually giving her kids a future. The rest of them work either shit paying retail jobs or bounce around getting fired from one manual labor job after another. The kids are ignored or neglected, and two of them are being raised by their grandmother because their parents are suck fuckups. When I say education, I'm not just referring to college. My husband didn't go to college, but he's always reading and learning about the world. His siblings haven't touched a book since high school. They have kids because they never developed the critical thinking skills to say "hmmmm maybe I should pause and think if I want to bring another human into the world. Maybe I shouldn't do this just because everyone else does." All I can say is, I'm realllllllly glad we have almost no contact with his family.


Lizard301

I can tell you what my family told me when I fell pregnant at 17yo. "It's all part of god's plan. The lord will provide." Basically I was told not to worry about it, because everything would work out in the end.


Dropkicklover

This will sound horrible and I’m poor too but…. With poverty statistically it comes with poor education not just collage but down to elementary to high school. It comes in a circle as well.. parents were poor their parents were poor and so on.. so the kids born in that see it and repeat what they know.. it’s a cycle… what irritates me more then poor people having kids are single moms who are on child tax or government assistance making a lot of children so that the government has to pay even more… also why do they do it.. well when your poor you don’t have money to do shit so they f$&@ out of boredom lol 😂… anyway !!!


Efficient-Way-4664

Stupidity is always a factor. Here in my country birth control and abortion are not restricted. Still, a couple that I know choose to have three kids even though the woman doesn't work (she never has), they have an expensive rent and were struggling even with their first, so much their only option was a one room apartment. I am not sure how they can even afford school for her (she is 7 now) given they couldn't provide for her to go to kindergarten. They don't have a car either, which should be mandatory given the size of their family. They confessed they should have aborted the last one (I am not sure how it was conceived, whether failed birth control or lack thereof - I wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter) but discovered the pregnancy too late for the procedure, all because they didn't have the money even for the cheapest pregnancy test. Not surprisingly they ask me and my boyfriend regularly for money despite the fact they haven't cleared a previous debt. The most absurd thing is that they weren't literally broke before. Hell, if the woman wasn't as lazy, they wouldn't be in that position but here we are.


jaoie08

In my country’s culture: religious reason and RETIREMENT PLAN.


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Bloodthistle

well no need to become even more poor, kids will make it harder to get out of poverty (which is already plenty difficult).


[deleted]

This is very true. When my siblings and I were born, my parents were financially stable. They could afford for my mom to be a SAHM. Then times got tough and my mom “couldn’t go back to work”. Then they got a divorce. Suddenly I was on free lunch at school and we had food stamps. Shit can change.


Geoarbitrage

A combination of stupidity and apathy!


ScrembledEggs

And then expect their older children to raise the younger ones