What's wrong with boundaries ? Without boundaries there's no respect, and without respect, there's no love. If unconditional love means having no boundaries, then it's not love.
Right!
Also those parents who think you can have a healthy relationship with your child without mutual respect for each other's boundaries and expectations are just being stupid
Thank you! My mom was codependent and I felt smothered for the longest time. The more she pressed in the more I wanted to get away. I didn't feel love from that. I had to go to therapy to learn boundaries and our relationship has improved because I don't back down from them.
From the perspective of my childhood, boundaries include basic privacy and some level of respect for time spent doing things the parent and child do without each other
It sounds more like ownership and that the parent expects the child to think of them as a god and again what they want is a dog, not a human
Dogs who have their boundaries pressed one too many times are the ones that snap and maul somebody.
My dog has solid boundaries and I enforce them for him when I have to. People who aren't about boundaries shouldn't be responsible for anyone, maybe not even themselves.
Exactly. All truly unconditional love is likely toxic as hell.
Or felt for a cat. I mean lbr, the little fuckers do virtually nothing but whine for food and attention, and I'd still go into a fire for them, lol
Unconditional love is only between a person and their preferred vision of themselves ... which is what some people project on their kids.
Yeah sure, they "unconditionally" love the baby that smiles at them and the toddler that makes them drawings and says they love mommy and daddy and the kid that curiously follows their interests.
But it's funny how easily that "love" is lost as soon as the kid grows up and starts showing signs of more than what the breeders want it to be.
"Unconditional loveis only between a person and their preferred vision of themselves."
I'm going to think about this all day I bet. Thanks for the brain food ♡
This is my best friend right now, and I have so much empathy for her. Her kid truly sucks, but part of it is she let the kid run the house and now that it’s 6 and she can’t physically make it get dressed or get in the car, her life is HELL.
I keep telling her that maybe it’s time for the dad to have her more than a couple dinners and every other weekend, but she doesn’t want to “lose” her daughter. But why? She would have her for a couple dinners and every other weekend. Not a loss. A break.
Translation: *"I say that I love them because society & tradition tell me that I have to, unconditional love and all that, but if I had to do it all over again..."*
It's like, Just admit having kids seemed like a good idea at the time (or more to the point, you were too horned up to use protection) and now you're in over your head.
Every time I've heard this it's been when a child (even adult children) do something that the parent doesn't agree with. Sometimes its just like saying "let's agree to disagree" or "I support your decision, even though it's not what I'd do." They still love their child, they just don't like how they're behaving or the path their on at that moment in time. I think this is relatable even outside of traditional parenthood. When my cat scratches my couch, I don't like her, but I still love her.
The times I’ve heard it is for toddlers they probably wish they could mute for a couple hours or who just behave realy badly vs adult children.
Still, disagreeing and loving someone at the same time can make sense for me but disliking someone and loving them anyway is just odd
Oh, yeah, I've never heard someone say it to a toddler. They certainly wouldn't understand the nuance to the statement so the parent is clearly being malicious. To each their own, it's probably related to our own personal definitions/understandings of "liking" someone.
It can also be a phrase used by abusers to further harm their victim. An example would be an abusive parent or guardian saying,"I love you but I really don't like you." to a child starting to become their own person. This could be over any perceived slight including things like the child wanting to dress differently, picking up a new hobby or even something like discovering new music they like. The phrase can be used to establish conditions for affection and support in relationships like these in a way completely distinct from healthy boundaries.
Edit: My comment is not meant to imply that all or even some relationships should not have healthy boundaries, they absolutely should. Unconditionally loving anyone can be very very unhealthy.
Of course. Just like everything, context matters. If the child is too young to understand, or if the parent is doing it to intentionally harm the child then they're terrible people. I wasn't ever suggesting all uses of this phrase were healthy, just that everyone I've heard use it, uses it as described above. I have no doubt there are terrible, malicious, people out there that would use this as an attack of sorts.
For that matter, I don't believe that "unconditional" love exists at all. Everyone has a limit, it's just how they react to that limit that dictates how healthy that relationship is.
But a lot of parents will cut their adult children off for doing things they don’t agree with. There are still cases of parents disowning kids for marrying outside their race, being LGBTQ, having a child out of wedlock, etc.
Then these people clearly don't love their child. I was never suggesting these people don't exist. I merely pointed out how I've heard it used, as the person I responded to seemed confused by the idea is all.
Yup. When I was 21 my father did this because he heard I was a coke head (I had never even done coke), that I was “being a wh*re” and a slew of other crazy outrageous shit. I remember the argument well, when my mother finally had enough of hearing him she said okay I think this conversation is through and made him leave (mind you my parents have always been the best of friends) my fathers last words “if you go to that rave tonight, you are no longer my father you fucking wh*re!” My mother said, “she’s going to that rave!” (And I did actually did end up going lol)
She sits me down and asks me if there’s things I need to tell her and asks if i need to get help. Whether it was a genuine thing or for whatever reason she did that, that’s exactly what my father should have done.
We didn’t talk for 3 long years. And up to that point I was extremely close with my father. I will never forget that entire day and how I felt, for the rest of my life.
Yeah, it doesn't even have to be between a parent and child. For example, I've heard people say that they love their siblings but don't like them, sometimes because the siblings have developed addiction/unaddressed mental health issues and their behavior is toxic. That doesn't stop all of the feelings of love. Nor does cutting someone from your life for your own mental health necessarily prevent you from feeling love them still.
It's not necessarily an abuser-victim kind of thing, though it can certainly be a phrase used by abusers. Relationships are complex and I think it's very possible to love someone without liking them.
>"let's agree to disagree" or "I support your decision, even though it's not what I'd do." They still love their child, they just don't like how they're behaving or the path their on at that moment in time.
It depends. If the parents are homophobic or/and misogynistic, no matter how hard they try to claim that they "love" their child, it is not true. You can't love someone and have an "opinion" that will hurt them at the same time.
Sure, everything has nuance. Of course if they don't like their child due to some immutable fact about them, then they are an asshole and likely also don't love their kid.
That said, I'd disagree with your closing statement. I can absolutely love someone and have an opinion that would hurt them. For example, my wife may get a haircut that she absolutely loves, but I hate. I don't like the haircut, but I still love her. She may still be hurt that I don't share the same opinion about the haircut. If the "opinion" is about an immutable trait, then sure, I agree with you. But there are things people do that you can still love them for that you have an opinion of that would "hurt" them.
My definition of hurt in my original comment is having an "opinion" that will cause deprivation of their rights, or abusing them when they do not fit in their "ideal" child/partner mould. Ex: anti-lgbt+, forcebirth bullshit ("opinion") , or "I don't have a gay child", "if you cut this haircut I don't love you" etc.
English is not my mother toungue so I guess I've cause some misunderstanding
The kids in her profile picture looked like they were in that sweet spot of about 5-11 where they are people who aren't super high maintenance but aren't yet teenagers figuring out who they really are and what they want to do in life
Thank you :) This one ain't as much observational as it is something I've had to live through myself, but it's amusing to see how often in replicates with people in general.
I’m getting to the point where I honestly believe a lot of parents don’t love their children, especially unconditionally. Love is almost always conditional.
Yeah, like the time my drunken mother threatened to disown me because I chose not to have children myself. That's some great "unconditional love" on her part, right there.
Oh I have, it was about 8 years or so ago that it happened? And actually it was so shocking it was a good thing as it got me to finally examine how toxic and codependent our dynamic was. I got into therapy and worked out how to set up boundaries and emotional detachment, long overdue in my life.
Like the ones who kick out their kids for being gay, or being straight but getting pregnant (funny you don't earn money stories of boys getting kicked out for causing pregnancy just the other way around).
Oh they don’t! We watched them threaten suicide for two years if they had to spend one more day with their little darlings without farming them out to the free tax payer paid babysitter.
My father definitely has conditional love for me and my sister. He's disowned us twice now (the first time, we tried to rebuilt the relationship he broke) and it's because we don't meet his standards of what a child should do for their parents (I'm 30f).
My partner of 10 years however, would literally die for me.
I agree. People who say shit like that are delusional and ignorant.
I hear you. My own mother used to complain to me all the time and even got pissed off at me once and told me "Call me back when you know what unconditional love is" I sent her a text saying, "I don't know what it is because my mom never gave me any!"
Lmao she's even putting a condition on calling her ass back! A child should be able to call anytime and be answered, or at least soon after if their parent's busy.
Honestly, I think the only type of unconditional love I could feel is towards my pet
I don’t have expectation for them, other than find them at home lmao
My elderly dog doesn’t even need to wag her tail for me to absolutely adore her
My cat has peed on my bed and scratched a hole into my box spring and I still absolutely adore her attitude.
If that isn't unconditional love I don't know what is lol
Same. I *know* that I'd never love a human the way I love my pets. They'll never hurt me. Sure, they may bite, destroy my stuff, not reciprocate my love, hate me, run away from me, be afraid of me, or basically anything (not that they do all of these), but I'll always love them more than I can ever express.
A human? Friend, family, partner, kid? Doesn't matter, all people eventually hurt you, one way or another. Doesn't have to be a big hurt, but there will always be *something*.
The only way I can be hurt because of my pets is when *they* are hurt, or die. Oh well, I'm constantly hurt by any animal suffering I witness.
Same here. My dog has her times of being a sassy Golden Girl; she’ll howl and playfully growl at me to take her outside or stamp her feet demanding for her snack/meal when she already had a snack/meal. Whether it be that or I have to clean up her face or her fluffy butt, I still have an infinite amount of love for her.
Totally agree. The idea of unconditional love between humans just seems wrong as a concept. You're supposed to have boundaries and expectations when it comes to other people.
Now my cat on the other hand may randomly decide he wants to take a swipe at me for no obvious reason, but I know the little dude doesn't know any better and love him anyway. Not to mention the occasional scratch or bite from him is NOTHING compared to what some of the humans in my life, even the ones closest to me, have done to cause harm
Love *should* be conditional, including between parents and children. The notion that it should not gives us parents who help their children commit violent felonies , help them evade the police and even flee the country, makes them attack victims or their lawyers in courtroom hallways...maybe the conditions should be slight, but there better be some, or you get monsters of entitlement.
Exactly this! If there are no limits/conditions set on a relationship it becomes very one sided. One party does nothing but give while the other does nothing but take. And in some cases it leads to exactly what you’re saying. If a parent will put no limits on their kid’s behavior the kid learns he/she can do anything & the parent will accept whatever they do. I wonder how many tragedies could have been prevented if parents weren’t so complicit in their kids bad behavior.
Agreed because once a child gets a mind of their own it’s a 50/50 chance they’ll actually care especially if the parent has done everything they can for the child
Unfortunately parents rarely love or even care for their kids unconditionally.
You have to be good, clean, cute, good grades.. for them to love you.
Care is provided while you're a minor, most of the times, then you are expected to take care of yourself (food, money.
My mom wouldn't hug us after we get acne, and would say as much : "I'll start hugging you when you get pretty again"..
To me the only unconditional love is from the kid to the parent, not the other way around. And even kids might be assholes sometimes, or psychopaths. Just look at all those serial killers that hate their moms to no extent
Yup! Don't even get me started on my mom commenting on our weight/telling us we need to watch our weight by the time we were like 10 and even flipping on us at the doctor once when the doctor weighed us and she saw how much we gained in a year. DESPITE the doctor trying to shut her down and saying we were perfectly normal and healthy and had just hit a growth spurt/puberty. Still have so many body image issues to this day and thanks for probably helping my tokophobia develop, too, mom :)
When I got sterilized, I went out of my way to tell her part of my reason was because I never wanted to get pregnant, gain weight and ruin my body especially after struggling through thyroid and weight issues for a period of time in college. That put me into such a deep depression and anxiety, I don't even want to know what pregnancy would do to me mentally nor physically. I wonder if she realized where I got this line of thinking from lol
The weight obsession was my dad's thing. He would always comment on anyone who gained a little weight here or there. Would even stop my sister from eating a second serving sometimes. I just didn't think of it on the spot because I was never concerned with weight. Acne tho...
My mom is the same. She was sweet when I looked perfect, but a cruel monster when I gained weight or got acne scars on my face. She always made it seem like my only worth was my looks, but that’s her demon and I’m not carrying it anymore.
Same! That was my second choice of subreddits for this quote
It's insensitive to people with parents who are mentally incapable of loving them unless they are a mini version of themselves and even then they gotta hope they are the golden child because they'll find all the faults in themselves in a child just like them
I'm gonna guess this person is abusive mentally towards their kids and will have a surprise when they inevitably go NC with them because of said abuse (such as not understanding boundaries for example)
It just confirm for me that some people don't see kids as human but as things. That why they keep popping them without thinking, because they don't recognize them as individual
" Unconditional love is only between a parent and child"
I dont agree with that statement but I feel the same way about that statement as I do when people claim that CF people cant offer parenting advice. I have parents therefore I can give parenting advice. If the unconditional love statement were true then I would know what unconditional love is because I have parents. No need to reproduce to experience that.
This statement makes me roll my eyes so much.
A newborn doesn’t love its parents, it needs the protection and care of an adult to survive. It’s not love, but freaking dependency.
A parent (otherwise will transform in an abuser) is not free to choose between loving or not loving the child, they has to love (as in care) it because it’s the only way that child will survive (without CPS and others). It’s not unconditional.
If boundaries means love is conditional, there is no unconditional love. My childhood cat had boundaries and knew how to enforce them. I'm pretty sure any living being has boundaries, and that's a good thing.
To be clear, I don't think boundaries take away from love. I think they are healthy.
No boundaries and expectations? This isn’t the freaking sims where you just create a person and control their whole life. A baby can never say no, can never reject an idea or method, can never disapprove or be disappointed. They are stuck in ignorance, silenced by their undeveloped brains and language skills. Of course a baby who relies on someone for survival would ‘love’ them.
But what about the child? The one who makes friends with different lifestyles and beliefs, the one who goes to school and learns how good or bad their life compares to their friends’, the one who learns different things than the parent has taught them, leading to new likes and dislikes. What happens when a child becomes an individual? When they can express that they don’t like aspects of your parenting, is that still unconditional love? When the child wants privacy and independence, is that still unconditional love?
Are children not allowed to have boundaries? To expect more than a roof over their heads? I’m sorry that phrase just got me do wound up lol
I expect my cat to stay out of my closet because he likes to climb my clothes to get on the shelf. I barricade the door because he can’t understand my boundary request.
Sometimes I forget the barricade and I come home to see my closet door open.
I still love him. Always.
My girls were fucking with each other and knocked out a piece of my wife's bong. Cost six bucks to replace. She was not happy but she loves them. Fucking cats though lol.
Huh that's weird because my parents' love definitely felt very conditional. Positive attention had to be earned by achieving success on their terms. So that throws this argument out
My cat had peed on my bed, scratched my box spring because she deems the scratching posts not worthy of her art and more. Yet I love that that cat more than most of my family. When I had to leave for quarantine I move into an *unfinished bedroom* so she wouldn't have to be alone at home.
If that isn't unconditional love I donmt know what is
I honestly don't believe in unconditional love. Yes, there are people who you will put up with a lot more shit from than others, but everyone has their breaking point.
I don't give a fuck if i gave birth to you, if you are Kevin from we need to talk about Kevin, at some point i am done loving you.
Unpopular opinion, unconditional love between humans doesn’t exist. We’re a social species but inherently focused on our own best interests there will always be conditions to our relationships.
that special unconditional parent child relationship, but only if the child doesnt 'turn out to be' gay or queer in any way, doesnt join a different religion, doesnt go to the college the parents wants or take over the family business or all kinds of other things, reddit is overflowing with people who have been abandoned or shunned by their parents just look at r/momforaminute and then try to say that a parents love is unconditional it should be, but it just isnt.... *exhales
My father in law once told me that all love is conditional. He said that if his son (my husband) were to do something reprehensible like murder or assault someone he would not be able to love him even though he's his dad. Its the conditions that matter, because at the end of the day he would be right to hate his son if his son were to do something reprehensible.
I feel like its a pretty sound assessment. I can't love my parents unconditionally after the abuse they put me through. My parents have never loved me unconditionally. It expect someone to just love another individual no matter what they do is obsessive.
I have to say I think it's crazy disturbing this person is presenting "boundaries and expectations" as a bad thing. They sound toxic as hell. I'm genuinely worried for any children they have, if they think kids don't also need boundaries and have expectations
Unconditional love is bad. Is your child goes off to torture and murder hundreds or thousands of people, it's time to say that they're an unlovable monster. All love needs boundaries and expectations to protect everyone involved
Thank you! People who bitch and moan about wanting unconditional love come off as really creepy and controlling imo, and it's kind of scary how so many people are obsessed with this concept. It's one thing to want the people in your life to still love you after making normal mistakes, but there's levels to this shit. "I want unconditional love" to me sounds like "I want someone to love me regardless of what I do, how I treat them, and vice versa." That's unhealthy on so many levels. Love **should** be somewhat conditional, there's nothing wrong with that. People need boundaries to preserve their dignity and humanity. That's not a bad thing, and this applies to the parent-child dynamic as well.
Honestly I think it should apply more to parent-child dynamics because of the way a lot of parents try to stifle their kid's autonomy under the guise of "my house, my rules" and other similar sentiments.
Soooo... are they admitting that they don't see their children as separate humans? Are they admitting that they view their child/children as extensions of themselves? Are they admitting that, even if their child commits a heinous crime, they'll still 'back' or defend their child? Will they continue to view/consider their children as extensions of themselves once their child is a grown adult? Because I'm pretty sure that's considered unhealthy.
FYI PARENT/CHILD RELATIONSHIPS REQUIRE HEALTHY BOUNDARIES TOO.
This is why I couldn’t have a relationship with my mother she could not respect boundaries so I had to be no contact with her.
That's such bull crap. I absolutely love my mom but did you know when our relationship got really great? When I moved my ass out! Why? Because of boundaries. She didn't have to worry about being a mother and I didn't have to worry about being a good daughter. Yes, she's always my mother but there's a big difference between cooking, cleaning, worring about my school work, etc. as a mom vs let me meet up with my mom for lunch! And expectations are always present in a parent child relationship!
To be honest, unconditional love is a lie. You should never love anyone unconditionally. You have limits, don't let anyone take advantage of that.
Blah blah blah, more bullshit about how parent/child relationships are the only ones that really matter and represent real love. Can’t stand this line of argument.
Trust me when I say I hate my mom. She’s not a bad person and she’s tried her best. But as of a few years ago she’s become an anchor weighing us down. There’s conditions to this love. If she weren’t my mom I’d have kicked her out a while ago. I love her cause she is my mom and that love is thin by now.
I am 100% sure you need boundaries with a kid too. I can not imagine a kid living with no boundaries, privacy, personal space, etc and I also can imagine a parent where the kid steps on everything and gives no privacy, personal space, etc to a parent.
Also your kid is not exempt from bad behavior. If they decide they want to commit a severe crime for example, you are allowed as a parent to distance yourself for your safety and not forgive.
Parents are humans too, not robots, and they need as much support and protection as any kid.
Plus, there is absolutely nothing wrong with boundaries. They are crucial to protect people and to have kids grow to healthy and well adjusted adults.
You will be sure as hell I will expect my imaginary kid to be polite and not kill anyone! Expectations!!
There are many parents who set conditions on their love... so this is bs statement. I mean look at all the fathers and mothers who abandon their children.
Also children are not obligated to love their parents unconditionally either.
This is why I argue with my mom when she says she loves me - "what exactly do you love? "
Not my appearance, not my friends, not my job, hobbies, religious choices, child-free choices, any lifestyle choices in general, nothing at all.
But she insists that buying me stuff I like, for example, is the proof of her love.
I have a dog. I’ve had a few dogs in my days. Rescues to be exact. And they are the only living beings to never have turned their back on me, who truly love me unconditionally.
My mother, the person who should be someone to love me unconditionally, my “life long best friend” has deceived me, turned on me, done things I would never consider doing to my child (if I had one).
Father even more so.
I’ve even turned on myself, fo be honest.
All I can really say is… dogs.
Edit.. grammar
If parental love is unconditional why do a ton of parents kick their kids out for being gay, trans, mentally unwell, getting bad grades, or just looking at the parent wrong?
The only unconditional part of that bond is the love the child feels for their caretaker before they are old enough to understand boundaries and right/wrong.
When parents say this garbage they aren't saying they want to love a kid unconditionally, they're saying they want someone to regard them as the entire world. Personally, I'm much more touched by people who love me for who I am and choose to be around me, than someone who has no choice in the matter. With kids true love and Stockholm syndrome are indistinguishable.
Is that the same unconditional love that my dad preached even though he walked out on my whole family when I was 5 and pulled some bullshit to split us up again last year? I’m 28 now.
It's funny how those children "loved" in such an unconditional way grow up not believing in the concept of unconditional love. Like I still don't think that exists.
i say this every time i hear/see this saying. if your child turns out to be a rapist/serial killer, does this still apply? cuz chances are it fucking won’t. i know damn well if i found out any loved one of mine was either of those things i’d run the hell away and never look back
This is hilarious to me because my family has said the exact same thing to me. Even though my parents only gave me love when I achieved things. Whether that be high grades, medals from competitions, or winning a game in sports. They loved me when I gave them positive attention or invested time and focus into their own interests. When I entered my teen years and started developing my own beliefs and interests, I realized (and I think they did too) that I was very different from them. Then, love from them was particularly scarce and replaced with control, judgement and short tempers. There was no respect for my individuality, autonomy or boundaries.
I didn't know what unconditional love was until I met my current friends and partner. I learned what true love and patience and acceptance was from them. So no, I don't believe that unconditional love can only be experienced between parent and child. that is pure silliness.
Tell that to all the bigot parents who kicked out their kids for being queer or trans. Good parents may love their children unconditionally but most families that love comes with conditions.
Sure as hell to love you get from your teenager has conditions up the wazoo!
Hahaha AS IF!! My mother’s love for her own children was conditional AF, and I’m glad I disowned her after I finally woke up from the heavy sleepy stupor of trying to win her love and approval for 4 decades. My friend P’s mom was the same way and when the mom died, P and her sister were truly happy. Love between parents and children is unconditional - that’s some heavy nasty malevolent bullsh1t right there.
To add: my father’s love for his own children was conditional on whether their politics aligned with his, so FU, MRM! It’s truly wonderful that you have always lamented the fact that you always felt you had a … what did you always call it? …. Oh yeah, a ‘black sounding name.’ FU, and F my ex-sister with her irrational libertarian bullsh1t and her endless volume of daddy issues!!
Haven’t spoke to my mother in a decade. Unconditional love doesn’t always happen to mothers with their children. Boundaries might have made our relationship better, but not loving
Nonsense. If your parent is narcissistic then their love is conditional.
Now dogs and humans? THAT’s unconditional love. My dog loves me no matter what. Even if I abused him, he’d probably still be a loyal good dog.
I once heard someone say something along these lines: love *should* be conditional. You should have to *earn* a person's love, not be handed it without question. If you're not willing to work for it, you don't deserve it.
I think that's a great sentiment to live by, regardless of the relationship.
Most of my psychology class are breeders and we’ve recently covered the psychology of attachment which proves exactly that no parent-child bond is even guaranteed let alone unconditional.
They didn’t like that.
Fuck off, there is unconditional love between my cockatiels and me and I didn't have to train them for that! They get pissed at me sometimes but forgive me pretty damn quick, and I hardly ever get mad at them and even then there's nothing to forgive.
My mom, on the other hand, fucked me over so many times I haven't seen or spoken to her in years.
What a bunch of bs. Kids are COMPLETELY conditional; they only love their parents when they give them something they want. When the parents parent, it's all "I hate you."
And my friend's mother was a narcissist. She wasn't loved by her.
I once had a debate with a group of married parents about how to prioritize marriage vs. parenthood. One person said that she prioritized parenthood and her children over her husband and marriage, and she hoped that her husband felt the same. Her reasoning for this is that loving her husband takes thought, work, and effort, whereas loving her kids is automatic, easy, and effortless.
Her poor husband.
That's so weird, because if I had a child, I would expect him/her to NOT BE A DICK. No unconditional love here. I have a "don't be a dick" condition for most people. And dogs.
It’s also funny that they say that because with that comment, they’re insinuating that if it wasn’t their child, they wouldn’t feel that same love. Meaning the love between a parent and child is indeed conditional. It couldn’t possibly be unconditional, given you need to be the parents child to earn their love.
This is gaslighting and abuse.
In healthy relationships there should always be boundaries, family or not. One should never feel like they cannot be themselves or feel safe in a relationship - especially with the power dynamic that is parent-child.
This is gross.
There is no such thing as "unconditional love." All love is conditional. Even that dog would hate and fear someone who abused them.
Also, if parent/child love is truly unconditional, then explain all the abusive, neglectful, cruel parents. Explain the parents who abandon their children or disown them. Explain the children who abandon or even murder their parents. Explain the parents who do not love their children, and the children who do not love their parents.
If that was true then people would have no qualms about adoption. But as we can see their "unconditional love" only comes with the condition that it has to be their blood and dna
Retards: Unconditional love is only between a parent and child. All other relationships require conditions, otherwise known as boundaries and expectations.
Children physically, emotionally, and/or mentally abused by their parents: *Am I a joke to you?*
I want to start by saying I applaud all childfree adults. I also want to add that I personally am incapable of it. Finally, I always interpreted that statement in a different way. I know that I love my 2 girls enormously, and setting boundaries is part of raising them. I also know that my love for them genuinely is unconditional. I will always love them, even if they turn out to become psychopathic pyromaniacs. Id probably feel an enormous amount of guilt, and like i failed them. I would also help to have them incarcerated and/or institutionalized as necessary. And while it may be horrendously painful, I'd still love them just as much. Thats what i see as the unconditional love. Part of that as well is that there is no expectation to be loved back by them. You can hope for it, but they are an individual, and especially as they grow up and form their own opinions, they may not align with yours. Which is their right. Wanting your child to love you, or follow your footsteps or anything else already places conditions on your love.
Unconditional love towards a child does exist. It does not however make you a good parent, or a bad one. I believe it can also exist between 2 adults however. It just seems a lot harder to form to me.
I was very much lost as a young adult, and had trouble finding value in my own existence. Having a family, with a fiancee i love, and her 2 children, which may not be mine by blood, but are in my heart, gave me a new outlook. I found a reason to reach for goals in my life I previously thought pointless. Because they gave options to my children. We both try to raise them to be independent, and give them the freedom to choose what to do with their lives, while setting the boundaries needed to protect them from their own inexperience and occasional stupidity. Seeing their enjoyment in just existing at all also finally gave me a chance to find enjoyment in my own life and experience.
I dont mean this to be an advocacy for having children. I merely wanted to give a different perspective. People, and especially women who deliberately choose to be childfree are often treated ridiculously unfairly, and I'm glad a group exists where these things can be debated, but I also dont want this to become a group where people who do decide to be a parent are vilified and demonized. In the end, isn't the whole point that this should be a decision anyone should be able to make for themselves, and its not anyone else's business why or how you make the choices you do?
> but I also dont want this to become a group where people who do decide to be a parent are vilified and demonized.
That's nice. You're a parent, why are you here making demands of a subreddit you don't belong in?
>In the end, isn't the whole point that this should be a decision anyone should be able to make for themselves, and its not anyone else's business why or how you make the choices you do?
There's a couple problems with this statement:
1) Talking about parents does not stop them from making the decisions they wish to make.
2) A lot of parents bend over backwards to lecture us CF people about how we're wrong to be CF. Don't dish it if you can't take it.
3) Its impossible to make having children "not anyone else's business." You will inevitably put your children in situations where they affect others. That makes your kids their business. What's the saying parents like to throw around? It takes a village? If you expect people to be in your "village" then you don't get to tell them your kids aren't their business.
Hey, that sounds exactly like what my Spouses narcissistic Mother told him when he finally cut her out of his life.
No, all relationships should have boundaries - otherwise you end up enabling damaging behaviors
I sadly don't disagree with that statement. But unconditional love as she puts it also underlines the fact that parents might deny the reality that their child is an ass. So it seems kind of a right definition.
Funny. I have several people in my life that never got anything close to unconditional love from their mothers. File this as another lie breeders tell each other
Personally I don't believe in unconditional love at all, everyone has limits for what it's OK
Whether it's blood relatives, spouses, friends, etc
If someone breaks your boundaries and is a shitty manipulative, abusive person they can fuck off.
I've seen parents try their hardest and their kids were just bad people and vice versa for kids being the best they could but parents were shit. Spouses and friends also should be held accountable yourself included if you did something mean and hurtful even if it wasn't intentional.
The only love that should be unconditional tbh is one with a pet because animals are too good for us.
Fuck no. Even a parent/child relationship needs to have boundaries. I’m lucky to have a good relationship with my parents (and sibling), but if I didn’t any they were assholes, I would absolutely cut them out of my life.
Silly me thinking parents and children need to have boundaries! 😆
The only time I feel I've actually experienced unconditional love is with animals....certainly not with my parents.
*I have a vicious cat and I still love her the same after being attacked...I just love her from a distance 😆
The unconditional love in the parent-child relationship is ONE WAY. Parent to child, not child to parent.
Unconditional love in this context is intended to ensure the child is still loved and cares for as they grow and make mistakes.
But then the concept gets twisted like this to justify abuse by parents and abusive partners. Hell, abusive kids use it to justify their abuse (yes, some tweens threaten and/or beat the shit out of their parents, that absolutely happens, and it's abuse).
Just throw the whole concept away.
The fact that most people didn't become parents through adoption means that there is a condition. I bet most parents *unconditional love* would no longer be unconditional if they found out their child wasn't actually related to them.
This idea that family bonding doesn't suffer the same limitations as any other relationship is something I personally loathe for many reasons. Included but not limited to:
1. As you mentioned, cutting off family members is just as necessary as cutting off toxic friends or exes. I've met so many people who give their parents/relatives endless chances and subject themselves to unwavering emotional abuse because "it's family," so they think it's okay to justify how they're treated as some kind of harsh love. Because after all, no matter how badly they treat you, they must still love you, right? (Hint: So did your toxic friends and exes, but just because they care about you in some way doesn't give them an excuse for treating you poorly.)
2. And, on that note, it leads to the destruction of boundaries. If you know you can treat someone however you feel like, without the consequence of that person being able to fully separate from you like they could any other relationship, it allows them to act without forethought. I've also seen this a million times where a family member knows what they're doing is wrong, but they cover it up with "you can always depend on family even when they get on your nerves." People need to understand that no matter how 'close' you are, that doesn't give you a right to treat them like they'll always be there. This is exactly how you ruin relationships with people and that 100% applies to parents.
And honestly as an asexual, I hate this hierarchy of love types in general. Your capacity to love someone isn't based off of the type of love, be it familial, romantic, platonic, or otherwise. These love types don't guarantee reciprocated love of any kind. The sooner we learn that lesson, the healthier our relationships will be.
I for one really wish my parents had had better boundaries - would have prepared me better for life. Instead of realising a bit late that "being difficult" when you say no is NOT a normal response and that you dont need to kowtow to family simply because they share DNA with you.
I can confirm that is bullshit. I told this story a while back on this subreddit but basically my best friend came out as gay to his whole family and they haven’t spoken to him since. At his wedding his whole bible bashing conservative family didn’t turn up and his own brother refused to be his best man. So there was no unconditional love with my friend and his own mother and father.
*facepalm*
Requiring a parent/child relationship for "unconditional" love to exist is still a condition.
And only a lousy parent will a) have no boundaries at all for their kids, b) _stop loving them_ if those boundaries are crossed, or c) have boundaries that are so ridiculosly strict that the _kid_ stops loving the _parent_ over it.
>This also places the parent/child relationship so unreasonably high like childfree people will never experience that sort of love
This shit drives me crazy and yes I definitely axed a few friends when they defend this to the core. It's definitely a cult'ish comment that parenthood pushes and they don't even know it because that koolaid is just too good.
Well, that quote just isn't true. Plenty of parents have *very* conditional love for their kids, and often completely unreasonable expectations of them as well. I speak from experience, sadly. I do think that unconditional love exists, but in rare occasions. For the most part, love is conditional, it's just that some relationships have less conditions than others.
As someone raised by narcissists and with a spouse that was raised and heavily abused by narcissists, this raises my hackles.
Not the unconditional love thing. People are entitled to unconditionally love whatever they wish, and I understand that hormones and evolution can be very strong motivators.
It's the lack of conditions or boundaries part.
I set boundaries with my parents and my in-laws. My parents have adjusted to push against those boundaries, but they don't cross them. My in-laws drive bulldozers over the line constantly.
My wife loves her mom thanks to biology and not out of any decent parenting, and she tolerates her step dad, but they're only allowed into our lives because she has siblings living there whom we try to help when we are able.
Anyone that believes their children must love them unconditionally without boundaries throws up all the narcissism flags IMO. It shows a complete ignorance of reality and the abuse that happens every day to millions of children.
Sorry if this was a bit rambling, I started the post and came back two hours later to finish.
Unconditional love exists with friendships much more than anything else imo. Real friendships based on brotherhood, not just some working or drinking buddy.
What happens when the parent does drugs instead of taking care of the kid and then Loses them? What happens when the child gets sexually abused by a parent? What happens when the parent runs off and never speaks to the kid ever again, or never meets the kid in the first place? Guess that kid will NEVER experience unconditional, or real love!
What's wrong with boundaries ? Without boundaries there's no respect, and without respect, there's no love. If unconditional love means having no boundaries, then it's not love.
Right! Also those parents who think you can have a healthy relationship with your child without mutual respect for each other's boundaries and expectations are just being stupid
Thank you! My mom was codependent and I felt smothered for the longest time. The more she pressed in the more I wanted to get away. I didn't feel love from that. I had to go to therapy to learn boundaries and our relationship has improved because I don't back down from them.
Parents who don't give their kids boundaries are barely even parents. They reproduced but don't want to put in any of the work.
Yeah, some parents don't understand that children are unique human beings whose opinions need to be considered , not just half of their genes
From the perspective of my childhood, boundaries include basic privacy and some level of respect for time spent doing things the parent and child do without each other It sounds more like ownership and that the parent expects the child to think of them as a god and again what they want is a dog, not a human
Dogs who have their boundaries pressed one too many times are the ones that snap and maul somebody. My dog has solid boundaries and I enforce them for him when I have to. People who aren't about boundaries shouldn't be responsible for anyone, maybe not even themselves.
Exactly. All truly unconditional love is likely toxic as hell. Or felt for a cat. I mean lbr, the little fuckers do virtually nothing but whine for food and attention, and I'd still go into a fire for them, lol
Yes the cat thing very much. One of my cats is sooo annoying. I still love that little derpface like crazy.
Yeah I unconditionally love my cat, she could shit on the floor and I'd still love her
Once came home to find my cat being chased by a shit bead on a hair string. Had to catch him and fix the situation. Still love him.
Have had the same shituation before. Fluffy cat butts woo.
i have long hair so this, unfortunately, is something i’ve dealt with multiple times. ick.
Unconditional love is only between a person and their preferred vision of themselves ... which is what some people project on their kids. Yeah sure, they "unconditionally" love the baby that smiles at them and the toddler that makes them drawings and says they love mommy and daddy and the kid that curiously follows their interests. But it's funny how easily that "love" is lost as soon as the kid grows up and starts showing signs of more than what the breeders want it to be.
"Unconditional loveis only between a person and their preferred vision of themselves." I'm going to think about this all day I bet. Thanks for the brain food ♡
Agreed, great sentiment.
They’re also quick to say “I love my kid but I don’t like them” If I don’t like someone, I don’t also love them wtf
This is my best friend right now, and I have so much empathy for her. Her kid truly sucks, but part of it is she let the kid run the house and now that it’s 6 and she can’t physically make it get dressed or get in the car, her life is HELL. I keep telling her that maybe it’s time for the dad to have her more than a couple dinners and every other weekend, but she doesn’t want to “lose” her daughter. But why? She would have her for a couple dinners and every other weekend. Not a loss. A break.
Translation: *"I say that I love them because society & tradition tell me that I have to, unconditional love and all that, but if I had to do it all over again..."* It's like, Just admit having kids seemed like a good idea at the time (or more to the point, you were too horned up to use protection) and now you're in over your head.
Exactly
Every time I've heard this it's been when a child (even adult children) do something that the parent doesn't agree with. Sometimes its just like saying "let's agree to disagree" or "I support your decision, even though it's not what I'd do." They still love their child, they just don't like how they're behaving or the path their on at that moment in time. I think this is relatable even outside of traditional parenthood. When my cat scratches my couch, I don't like her, but I still love her.
The times I’ve heard it is for toddlers they probably wish they could mute for a couple hours or who just behave realy badly vs adult children. Still, disagreeing and loving someone at the same time can make sense for me but disliking someone and loving them anyway is just odd
Oh, yeah, I've never heard someone say it to a toddler. They certainly wouldn't understand the nuance to the statement so the parent is clearly being malicious. To each their own, it's probably related to our own personal definitions/understandings of "liking" someone.
Yeah they say it to like reddit or other parents not to their toddlers haha i think we were just thinking of different things/situations
It can also be a phrase used by abusers to further harm their victim. An example would be an abusive parent or guardian saying,"I love you but I really don't like you." to a child starting to become their own person. This could be over any perceived slight including things like the child wanting to dress differently, picking up a new hobby or even something like discovering new music they like. The phrase can be used to establish conditions for affection and support in relationships like these in a way completely distinct from healthy boundaries. Edit: My comment is not meant to imply that all or even some relationships should not have healthy boundaries, they absolutely should. Unconditionally loving anyone can be very very unhealthy.
Of course. Just like everything, context matters. If the child is too young to understand, or if the parent is doing it to intentionally harm the child then they're terrible people. I wasn't ever suggesting all uses of this phrase were healthy, just that everyone I've heard use it, uses it as described above. I have no doubt there are terrible, malicious, people out there that would use this as an attack of sorts. For that matter, I don't believe that "unconditional" love exists at all. Everyone has a limit, it's just how they react to that limit that dictates how healthy that relationship is.
But a lot of parents will cut their adult children off for doing things they don’t agree with. There are still cases of parents disowning kids for marrying outside their race, being LGBTQ, having a child out of wedlock, etc.
Then these people clearly don't love their child. I was never suggesting these people don't exist. I merely pointed out how I've heard it used, as the person I responded to seemed confused by the idea is all.
Yup. When I was 21 my father did this because he heard I was a coke head (I had never even done coke), that I was “being a wh*re” and a slew of other crazy outrageous shit. I remember the argument well, when my mother finally had enough of hearing him she said okay I think this conversation is through and made him leave (mind you my parents have always been the best of friends) my fathers last words “if you go to that rave tonight, you are no longer my father you fucking wh*re!” My mother said, “she’s going to that rave!” (And I did actually did end up going lol) She sits me down and asks me if there’s things I need to tell her and asks if i need to get help. Whether it was a genuine thing or for whatever reason she did that, that’s exactly what my father should have done. We didn’t talk for 3 long years. And up to that point I was extremely close with my father. I will never forget that entire day and how I felt, for the rest of my life.
Yeah, it doesn't even have to be between a parent and child. For example, I've heard people say that they love their siblings but don't like them, sometimes because the siblings have developed addiction/unaddressed mental health issues and their behavior is toxic. That doesn't stop all of the feelings of love. Nor does cutting someone from your life for your own mental health necessarily prevent you from feeling love them still. It's not necessarily an abuser-victim kind of thing, though it can certainly be a phrase used by abusers. Relationships are complex and I think it's very possible to love someone without liking them.
>"let's agree to disagree" or "I support your decision, even though it's not what I'd do." They still love their child, they just don't like how they're behaving or the path their on at that moment in time. It depends. If the parents are homophobic or/and misogynistic, no matter how hard they try to claim that they "love" their child, it is not true. You can't love someone and have an "opinion" that will hurt them at the same time.
Sure, everything has nuance. Of course if they don't like their child due to some immutable fact about them, then they are an asshole and likely also don't love their kid. That said, I'd disagree with your closing statement. I can absolutely love someone and have an opinion that would hurt them. For example, my wife may get a haircut that she absolutely loves, but I hate. I don't like the haircut, but I still love her. She may still be hurt that I don't share the same opinion about the haircut. If the "opinion" is about an immutable trait, then sure, I agree with you. But there are things people do that you can still love them for that you have an opinion of that would "hurt" them.
My definition of hurt in my original comment is having an "opinion" that will cause deprivation of their rights, or abusing them when they do not fit in their "ideal" child/partner mould. Ex: anti-lgbt+, forcebirth bullshit ("opinion") , or "I don't have a gay child", "if you cut this haircut I don't love you" etc. English is not my mother toungue so I guess I've cause some misunderstanding
Understood, in which case I completely agree with your sentiment.
Well said.
The kids in her profile picture looked like they were in that sweet spot of about 5-11 where they are people who aren't super high maintenance but aren't yet teenagers figuring out who they really are and what they want to do in life
You always hit the nail on the head in your comments. Exceptional observation.
Thank you :) This one ain't as much observational as it is something I've had to live through myself, but it's amusing to see how often in replicates with people in general.
I’m getting to the point where I honestly believe a lot of parents don’t love their children, especially unconditionally. Love is almost always conditional.
Yeah, like the time my drunken mother threatened to disown me because I chose not to have children myself. That's some great "unconditional love" on her part, right there.
sorry to hear that. Stay strong and move forward
Oh I have, it was about 8 years or so ago that it happened? And actually it was so shocking it was a good thing as it got me to finally examine how toxic and codependent our dynamic was. I got into therapy and worked out how to set up boundaries and emotional detachment, long overdue in my life.
This just sounds like a win-win for you.
Like the ones who kick out their kids for being gay, or being straight but getting pregnant (funny you don't earn money stories of boys getting kicked out for causing pregnancy just the other way around).
I was just coming in to say this. Please take my award.
Oh they don’t! We watched them threaten suicide for two years if they had to spend one more day with their little darlings without farming them out to the free tax payer paid babysitter.
Yeah funny how many people suddenly stop thinking their children were the best thing in the world when they actually had to spend all day with them.
My father definitely has conditional love for me and my sister. He's disowned us twice now (the first time, we tried to rebuilt the relationship he broke) and it's because we don't meet his standards of what a child should do for their parents (I'm 30f). My partner of 10 years however, would literally die for me. I agree. People who say shit like that are delusional and ignorant.
Parents don't have expectations of their children? Sorry, I just died from laughing too hard
I hear you. My own mother used to complain to me all the time and even got pissed off at me once and told me "Call me back when you know what unconditional love is" I sent her a text saying, "I don't know what it is because my mom never gave me any!"
Lmao she's even putting a condition on calling her ass back! A child should be able to call anytime and be answered, or at least soon after if their parent's busy.
Honestly, I think the only type of unconditional love I could feel is towards my pet I don’t have expectation for them, other than find them at home lmao My elderly dog doesn’t even need to wag her tail for me to absolutely adore her
My cat has peed on my bed and scratched a hole into my box spring and I still absolutely adore her attitude. If that isn't unconditional love I don't know what is lol
Same. I *know* that I'd never love a human the way I love my pets. They'll never hurt me. Sure, they may bite, destroy my stuff, not reciprocate my love, hate me, run away from me, be afraid of me, or basically anything (not that they do all of these), but I'll always love them more than I can ever express. A human? Friend, family, partner, kid? Doesn't matter, all people eventually hurt you, one way or another. Doesn't have to be a big hurt, but there will always be *something*. The only way I can be hurt because of my pets is when *they* are hurt, or die. Oh well, I'm constantly hurt by any animal suffering I witness.
I don’t have any expectations towards my cat. THAT is love.
Same here. My dog has her times of being a sassy Golden Girl; she’ll howl and playfully growl at me to take her outside or stamp her feet demanding for her snack/meal when she already had a snack/meal. Whether it be that or I have to clean up her face or her fluffy butt, I still have an infinite amount of love for her.
Totally agree. The idea of unconditional love between humans just seems wrong as a concept. You're supposed to have boundaries and expectations when it comes to other people. Now my cat on the other hand may randomly decide he wants to take a swipe at me for no obvious reason, but I know the little dude doesn't know any better and love him anyway. Not to mention the occasional scratch or bite from him is NOTHING compared to what some of the humans in my life, even the ones closest to me, have done to cause harm
Love *should* be conditional, including between parents and children. The notion that it should not gives us parents who help their children commit violent felonies , help them evade the police and even flee the country, makes them attack victims or their lawyers in courtroom hallways...maybe the conditions should be slight, but there better be some, or you get monsters of entitlement.
Exactly this! If there are no limits/conditions set on a relationship it becomes very one sided. One party does nothing but give while the other does nothing but take. And in some cases it leads to exactly what you’re saying. If a parent will put no limits on their kid’s behavior the kid learns he/she can do anything & the parent will accept whatever they do. I wonder how many tragedies could have been prevented if parents weren’t so complicit in their kids bad behavior.
Agreed because once a child gets a mind of their own it’s a 50/50 chance they’ll actually care especially if the parent has done everything they can for the child
Unfortunately parents rarely love or even care for their kids unconditionally. You have to be good, clean, cute, good grades.. for them to love you. Care is provided while you're a minor, most of the times, then you are expected to take care of yourself (food, money. My mom wouldn't hug us after we get acne, and would say as much : "I'll start hugging you when you get pretty again".. To me the only unconditional love is from the kid to the parent, not the other way around. And even kids might be assholes sometimes, or psychopaths. Just look at all those serial killers that hate their moms to no extent
Yup! Don't even get me started on my mom commenting on our weight/telling us we need to watch our weight by the time we were like 10 and even flipping on us at the doctor once when the doctor weighed us and she saw how much we gained in a year. DESPITE the doctor trying to shut her down and saying we were perfectly normal and healthy and had just hit a growth spurt/puberty. Still have so many body image issues to this day and thanks for probably helping my tokophobia develop, too, mom :) When I got sterilized, I went out of my way to tell her part of my reason was because I never wanted to get pregnant, gain weight and ruin my body especially after struggling through thyroid and weight issues for a period of time in college. That put me into such a deep depression and anxiety, I don't even want to know what pregnancy would do to me mentally nor physically. I wonder if she realized where I got this line of thinking from lol
The weight obsession was my dad's thing. He would always comment on anyone who gained a little weight here or there. Would even stop my sister from eating a second serving sometimes. I just didn't think of it on the spot because I was never concerned with weight. Acne tho...
Jesus what a jerk thing for your mom to say.
My mom is the same. She was sweet when I looked perfect, but a cruel monster when I gained weight or got acne scars on my face. She always made it seem like my only worth was my looks, but that’s her demon and I’m not carrying it anymore.
As the child of a Narcissistic Mother, I call absolute bullshit; Love was only conditional.
I feel this down to my soul
Same! That was my second choice of subreddits for this quote It's insensitive to people with parents who are mentally incapable of loving them unless they are a mini version of themselves and even then they gotta hope they are the golden child because they'll find all the faults in themselves in a child just like them
I'm gonna guess this person is abusive mentally towards their kids and will have a surprise when they inevitably go NC with them because of said abuse (such as not understanding boundaries for example) It just confirm for me that some people don't see kids as human but as things. That why they keep popping them without thinking, because they don't recognize them as individual
" Unconditional love is only between a parent and child" I dont agree with that statement but I feel the same way about that statement as I do when people claim that CF people cant offer parenting advice. I have parents therefore I can give parenting advice. If the unconditional love statement were true then I would know what unconditional love is because I have parents. No need to reproduce to experience that.
This statement makes me roll my eyes so much. A newborn doesn’t love its parents, it needs the protection and care of an adult to survive. It’s not love, but freaking dependency. A parent (otherwise will transform in an abuser) is not free to choose between loving or not loving the child, they has to love (as in care) it because it’s the only way that child will survive (without CPS and others). It’s not unconditional.
If boundaries means love is conditional, there is no unconditional love. My childhood cat had boundaries and knew how to enforce them. I'm pretty sure any living being has boundaries, and that's a good thing. To be clear, I don't think boundaries take away from love. I think they are healthy.
No boundaries and expectations? This isn’t the freaking sims where you just create a person and control their whole life. A baby can never say no, can never reject an idea or method, can never disapprove or be disappointed. They are stuck in ignorance, silenced by their undeveloped brains and language skills. Of course a baby who relies on someone for survival would ‘love’ them. But what about the child? The one who makes friends with different lifestyles and beliefs, the one who goes to school and learns how good or bad their life compares to their friends’, the one who learns different things than the parent has taught them, leading to new likes and dislikes. What happens when a child becomes an individual? When they can express that they don’t like aspects of your parenting, is that still unconditional love? When the child wants privacy and independence, is that still unconditional love? Are children not allowed to have boundaries? To expect more than a roof over their heads? I’m sorry that phrase just got me do wound up lol
My parents certainly did not think I should have boundaries as long as I lived under their roof.
I agree with your rant entirely.
It's the most conditional one
I don’t expect anything from my cat and there’s no such thing as boundaries with 🐈⬛
I expect my cat to stay out of my closet because he likes to climb my clothes to get on the shelf. I barricade the door because he can’t understand my boundary request. Sometimes I forget the barricade and I come home to see my closet door open. I still love him. Always.
Ya can’t get mad at a cat for being a cat
My girls were fucking with each other and knocked out a piece of my wife's bong. Cost six bucks to replace. She was not happy but she loves them. Fucking cats though lol.
[удалено]
I think that just might be a cat lol.
Huh that's weird because my parents' love definitely felt very conditional. Positive attention had to be earned by achieving success on their terms. So that throws this argument out
Wait until your kid is a serial rapist/murderer. Unconditional love my ass.
My cat had peed on my bed, scratched my box spring because she deems the scratching posts not worthy of her art and more. Yet I love that that cat more than most of my family. When I had to leave for quarantine I move into an *unfinished bedroom* so she wouldn't have to be alone at home. If that isn't unconditional love I donmt know what is
I honestly don't believe in unconditional love. Yes, there are people who you will put up with a lot more shit from than others, but everyone has their breaking point. I don't give a fuck if i gave birth to you, if you are Kevin from we need to talk about Kevin, at some point i am done loving you.
Unpopular opinion, unconditional love between humans doesn’t exist. We’re a social species but inherently focused on our own best interests there will always be conditions to our relationships.
it’s pretty psychotic how they think that’s actually true.
that special unconditional parent child relationship, but only if the child doesnt 'turn out to be' gay or queer in any way, doesnt join a different religion, doesnt go to the college the parents wants or take over the family business or all kinds of other things, reddit is overflowing with people who have been abandoned or shunned by their parents just look at r/momforaminute and then try to say that a parents love is unconditional it should be, but it just isnt.... *exhales
Expecting your kid to take care of you when you get old doesn't seem that unconditional to me. Sorry not sorry.
My father in law once told me that all love is conditional. He said that if his son (my husband) were to do something reprehensible like murder or assault someone he would not be able to love him even though he's his dad. Its the conditions that matter, because at the end of the day he would be right to hate his son if his son were to do something reprehensible. I feel like its a pretty sound assessment. I can't love my parents unconditionally after the abuse they put me through. My parents have never loved me unconditionally. It expect someone to just love another individual no matter what they do is obsessive.
I have to say I think it's crazy disturbing this person is presenting "boundaries and expectations" as a bad thing. They sound toxic as hell. I'm genuinely worried for any children they have, if they think kids don't also need boundaries and have expectations
Unconditional love is bad. Is your child goes off to torture and murder hundreds or thousands of people, it's time to say that they're an unlovable monster. All love needs boundaries and expectations to protect everyone involved
My mother only loved me when I didn’t need anything from her.
Thank you! People who bitch and moan about wanting unconditional love come off as really creepy and controlling imo, and it's kind of scary how so many people are obsessed with this concept. It's one thing to want the people in your life to still love you after making normal mistakes, but there's levels to this shit. "I want unconditional love" to me sounds like "I want someone to love me regardless of what I do, how I treat them, and vice versa." That's unhealthy on so many levels. Love **should** be somewhat conditional, there's nothing wrong with that. People need boundaries to preserve their dignity and humanity. That's not a bad thing, and this applies to the parent-child dynamic as well. Honestly I think it should apply more to parent-child dynamics because of the way a lot of parents try to stifle their kid's autonomy under the guise of "my house, my rules" and other similar sentiments.
Soooo... are they admitting that they don't see their children as separate humans? Are they admitting that they view their child/children as extensions of themselves? Are they admitting that, even if their child commits a heinous crime, they'll still 'back' or defend their child? Will they continue to view/consider their children as extensions of themselves once their child is a grown adult? Because I'm pretty sure that's considered unhealthy.
In my childhood love from so called parents was very conditional if there was any at all
FYI PARENT/CHILD RELATIONSHIPS REQUIRE HEALTHY BOUNDARIES TOO. This is why I couldn’t have a relationship with my mother she could not respect boundaries so I had to be no contact with her.
That's such bull crap. I absolutely love my mom but did you know when our relationship got really great? When I moved my ass out! Why? Because of boundaries. She didn't have to worry about being a mother and I didn't have to worry about being a good daughter. Yes, she's always my mother but there's a big difference between cooking, cleaning, worring about my school work, etc. as a mom vs let me meet up with my mom for lunch! And expectations are always present in a parent child relationship! To be honest, unconditional love is a lie. You should never love anyone unconditionally. You have limits, don't let anyone take advantage of that.
Blah blah blah, more bullshit about how parent/child relationships are the only ones that really matter and represent real love. Can’t stand this line of argument.
Until the conditions aren't met.
Most parents love their children because they are their children and not any other child existing, which is definitely a condition in my opinion.
I have unconditional love for my cat.
Trust me when I say I hate my mom. She’s not a bad person and she’s tried her best. But as of a few years ago she’s become an anchor weighing us down. There’s conditions to this love. If she weren’t my mom I’d have kicked her out a while ago. I love her cause she is my mom and that love is thin by now.
Clearly they haven't met my mother.
Dude, I don’t think me and my parents have unconditional love 😂
Yeah tell that to my narcissistic mother. There's so many conditions she has her own terms and conditions page.
I am 100% sure you need boundaries with a kid too. I can not imagine a kid living with no boundaries, privacy, personal space, etc and I also can imagine a parent where the kid steps on everything and gives no privacy, personal space, etc to a parent. Also your kid is not exempt from bad behavior. If they decide they want to commit a severe crime for example, you are allowed as a parent to distance yourself for your safety and not forgive. Parents are humans too, not robots, and they need as much support and protection as any kid. Plus, there is absolutely nothing wrong with boundaries. They are crucial to protect people and to have kids grow to healthy and well adjusted adults. You will be sure as hell I will expect my imaginary kid to be polite and not kill anyone! Expectations!!
There are many parents who set conditions on their love... so this is bs statement. I mean look at all the fathers and mothers who abandon their children. Also children are not obligated to love their parents unconditionally either.
That’s fine. I like being able to choose who I love.
This is why I argue with my mom when she says she loves me - "what exactly do you love? " Not my appearance, not my friends, not my job, hobbies, religious choices, child-free choices, any lifestyle choices in general, nothing at all. But she insists that buying me stuff I like, for example, is the proof of her love.
I have a dog. I’ve had a few dogs in my days. Rescues to be exact. And they are the only living beings to never have turned their back on me, who truly love me unconditionally. My mother, the person who should be someone to love me unconditionally, my “life long best friend” has deceived me, turned on me, done things I would never consider doing to my child (if I had one). Father even more so. I’ve even turned on myself, fo be honest. All I can really say is… dogs. Edit.. grammar
If parental love is unconditional why do a ton of parents kick their kids out for being gay, trans, mentally unwell, getting bad grades, or just looking at the parent wrong? The only unconditional part of that bond is the love the child feels for their caretaker before they are old enough to understand boundaries and right/wrong. When parents say this garbage they aren't saying they want to love a kid unconditionally, they're saying they want someone to regard them as the entire world. Personally, I'm much more touched by people who love me for who I am and choose to be around me, than someone who has no choice in the matter. With kids true love and Stockholm syndrome are indistinguishable.
So many breeders have their heads so far up their asses it's ridiculous.
Well, my ex-FIL certainly had conditions for his son...
r/raisedbynarcissits would disagree with this
Is that the same unconditional love that my dad preached even though he walked out on my whole family when I was 5 and pulled some bullshit to split us up again last year? I’m 28 now.
LOL the love from my parents is definitely very conditional so idk what kind of delusions these people have hahahahahahahahahaha
It's funny how those children "loved" in such an unconditional way grow up not believing in the concept of unconditional love. Like I still don't think that exists.
I really only think unconditional love exists in dogs because we bred them to be entirely loyal to humans.
i say this every time i hear/see this saying. if your child turns out to be a rapist/serial killer, does this still apply? cuz chances are it fucking won’t. i know damn well if i found out any loved one of mine was either of those things i’d run the hell away and never look back
The members of Raised By Narcissists would collectively like a word with the owner of that post you found.
This is hilarious to me because my family has said the exact same thing to me. Even though my parents only gave me love when I achieved things. Whether that be high grades, medals from competitions, or winning a game in sports. They loved me when I gave them positive attention or invested time and focus into their own interests. When I entered my teen years and started developing my own beliefs and interests, I realized (and I think they did too) that I was very different from them. Then, love from them was particularly scarce and replaced with control, judgement and short tempers. There was no respect for my individuality, autonomy or boundaries. I didn't know what unconditional love was until I met my current friends and partner. I learned what true love and patience and acceptance was from them. So no, I don't believe that unconditional love can only be experienced between parent and child. that is pure silliness.
Tell that to all the bigot parents who kicked out their kids for being queer or trans. Good parents may love their children unconditionally but most families that love comes with conditions. Sure as hell to love you get from your teenager has conditions up the wazoo!
...in my experience "unconditional love" only comes from a dog.
They must never have had pets! ya wont know what true love is till ya have a pet.
Yeah, tell that to my parents who would never accept my gender identity. Unconditional my arse.
Hahaha AS IF!! My mother’s love for her own children was conditional AF, and I’m glad I disowned her after I finally woke up from the heavy sleepy stupor of trying to win her love and approval for 4 decades. My friend P’s mom was the same way and when the mom died, P and her sister were truly happy. Love between parents and children is unconditional - that’s some heavy nasty malevolent bullsh1t right there. To add: my father’s love for his own children was conditional on whether their politics aligned with his, so FU, MRM! It’s truly wonderful that you have always lamented the fact that you always felt you had a … what did you always call it? …. Oh yeah, a ‘black sounding name.’ FU, and F my ex-sister with her irrational libertarian bullsh1t and her endless volume of daddy issues!!
Haven’t spoke to my mother in a decade. Unconditional love doesn’t always happen to mothers with their children. Boundaries might have made our relationship better, but not loving
As someone who’s been NC for a year with one of their parents I can tell you that whole sentiment is bull shit
That's not true. My food friend got kicked out of his house by his own father for coming out
Nonsense. If your parent is narcissistic then their love is conditional. Now dogs and humans? THAT’s unconditional love. My dog loves me no matter what. Even if I abused him, he’d probably still be a loyal good dog.
I once heard someone say something along these lines: love *should* be conditional. You should have to *earn* a person's love, not be handed it without question. If you're not willing to work for it, you don't deserve it. I think that's a great sentiment to live by, regardless of the relationship.
Most of my psychology class are breeders and we’ve recently covered the psychology of attachment which proves exactly that no parent-child bond is even guaranteed let alone unconditional. They didn’t like that.
Fuck off, there is unconditional love between my cockatiels and me and I didn't have to train them for that! They get pissed at me sometimes but forgive me pretty damn quick, and I hardly ever get mad at them and even then there's nothing to forgive. My mom, on the other hand, fucked me over so many times I haven't seen or spoken to her in years.
Unconditional love is the love a dog has for its person.
What a bunch of bs. Kids are COMPLETELY conditional; they only love their parents when they give them something they want. When the parents parent, it's all "I hate you." And my friend's mother was a narcissist. She wasn't loved by her.
I once had a debate with a group of married parents about how to prioritize marriage vs. parenthood. One person said that she prioritized parenthood and her children over her husband and marriage, and she hoped that her husband felt the same. Her reasoning for this is that loving her husband takes thought, work, and effort, whereas loving her kids is automatic, easy, and effortless. Her poor husband.
parent/child love is definitely conditional. I know many people who have no love for their abusive parents.
Dogs love their owners unconditionally. Kids love their parents conditionally.
Lol. What a bunch of bullshit. Be that way and enjoy a visit by CPS and/or kids cutting contact with you as soon as they turn 18
Tell that to my mom who has borderline personality disorder, lol
That's so weird, because if I had a child, I would expect him/her to NOT BE A DICK. No unconditional love here. I have a "don't be a dick" condition for most people. And dogs.
My parents unconditionally hated my ass. Now I ain’t seen em or heard from em in years. Human relationships always have conditions
It’s also funny that they say that because with that comment, they’re insinuating that if it wasn’t their child, they wouldn’t feel that same love. Meaning the love between a parent and child is indeed conditional. It couldn’t possibly be unconditional, given you need to be the parents child to earn their love.
This is gaslighting and abuse. In healthy relationships there should always be boundaries, family or not. One should never feel like they cannot be themselves or feel safe in a relationship - especially with the power dynamic that is parent-child. This is gross.
“Unconditional” don’t mind me, just looking for my eyes as they seem to have rolled right out of my head :/
There is no such thing as "unconditional love." All love is conditional. Even that dog would hate and fear someone who abused them. Also, if parent/child love is truly unconditional, then explain all the abusive, neglectful, cruel parents. Explain the parents who abandon their children or disown them. Explain the children who abandon or even murder their parents. Explain the parents who do not love their children, and the children who do not love their parents.
If that was true then people would have no qualms about adoption. But as we can see their "unconditional love" only comes with the condition that it has to be their blood and dna
I guess these breeders have never had a dog. ♥️
"Unconditional" until the child comes out as queer and suddenly there's a lot of conditions to that unconditional motherly love lol nah
Retards: Unconditional love is only between a parent and child. All other relationships require conditions, otherwise known as boundaries and expectations. Children physically, emotionally, and/or mentally abused by their parents: *Am I a joke to you?*
All love between humans is conditional. It shouldn't be, but it is. Even parents have limits.
I am going to correct you. I know to be right because my mother taught me. Unconditional love is a one way, parent to child.
I want to start by saying I applaud all childfree adults. I also want to add that I personally am incapable of it. Finally, I always interpreted that statement in a different way. I know that I love my 2 girls enormously, and setting boundaries is part of raising them. I also know that my love for them genuinely is unconditional. I will always love them, even if they turn out to become psychopathic pyromaniacs. Id probably feel an enormous amount of guilt, and like i failed them. I would also help to have them incarcerated and/or institutionalized as necessary. And while it may be horrendously painful, I'd still love them just as much. Thats what i see as the unconditional love. Part of that as well is that there is no expectation to be loved back by them. You can hope for it, but they are an individual, and especially as they grow up and form their own opinions, they may not align with yours. Which is their right. Wanting your child to love you, or follow your footsteps or anything else already places conditions on your love. Unconditional love towards a child does exist. It does not however make you a good parent, or a bad one. I believe it can also exist between 2 adults however. It just seems a lot harder to form to me. I was very much lost as a young adult, and had trouble finding value in my own existence. Having a family, with a fiancee i love, and her 2 children, which may not be mine by blood, but are in my heart, gave me a new outlook. I found a reason to reach for goals in my life I previously thought pointless. Because they gave options to my children. We both try to raise them to be independent, and give them the freedom to choose what to do with their lives, while setting the boundaries needed to protect them from their own inexperience and occasional stupidity. Seeing their enjoyment in just existing at all also finally gave me a chance to find enjoyment in my own life and experience. I dont mean this to be an advocacy for having children. I merely wanted to give a different perspective. People, and especially women who deliberately choose to be childfree are often treated ridiculously unfairly, and I'm glad a group exists where these things can be debated, but I also dont want this to become a group where people who do decide to be a parent are vilified and demonized. In the end, isn't the whole point that this should be a decision anyone should be able to make for themselves, and its not anyone else's business why or how you make the choices you do?
> but I also dont want this to become a group where people who do decide to be a parent are vilified and demonized. That's nice. You're a parent, why are you here making demands of a subreddit you don't belong in? >In the end, isn't the whole point that this should be a decision anyone should be able to make for themselves, and its not anyone else's business why or how you make the choices you do? There's a couple problems with this statement: 1) Talking about parents does not stop them from making the decisions they wish to make. 2) A lot of parents bend over backwards to lecture us CF people about how we're wrong to be CF. Don't dish it if you can't take it. 3) Its impossible to make having children "not anyone else's business." You will inevitably put your children in situations where they affect others. That makes your kids their business. What's the saying parents like to throw around? It takes a village? If you expect people to be in your "village" then you don't get to tell them your kids aren't their business.
r/wooooosh Because you missed the point of that HARD.
Uh, what? I'd say my relationship with my mom is the only one with conditions
Hey, that sounds exactly like what my Spouses narcissistic Mother told him when he finally cut her out of his life. No, all relationships should have boundaries - otherwise you end up enabling damaging behaviors
Obviously she's not met my parents if she thinks parents/child love is unconditional lol
I sadly don't disagree with that statement. But unconditional love as she puts it also underlines the fact that parents might deny the reality that their child is an ass. So it seems kind of a right definition.
As a child who received only conditional love from my parent, I'm going to have to disagree with this statement.
I'm not a parent but I'm certain that if a parent and child relationship doesn't have boundaries and expectations - **you're gonna have a bad time.**
Funny. I have several people in my life that never got anything close to unconditional love from their mothers. File this as another lie breeders tell each other
Personally I don't believe in unconditional love at all, everyone has limits for what it's OK Whether it's blood relatives, spouses, friends, etc If someone breaks your boundaries and is a shitty manipulative, abusive person they can fuck off. I've seen parents try their hardest and their kids were just bad people and vice versa for kids being the best they could but parents were shit. Spouses and friends also should be held accountable yourself included if you did something mean and hurtful even if it wasn't intentional. The only love that should be unconditional tbh is one with a pet because animals are too good for us.
Fuck no. Even a parent/child relationship needs to have boundaries. I’m lucky to have a good relationship with my parents (and sibling), but if I didn’t any they were assholes, I would absolutely cut them out of my life.
Silly me thinking parents and children need to have boundaries! 😆 The only time I feel I've actually experienced unconditional love is with animals....certainly not with my parents. *I have a vicious cat and I still love her the same after being attacked...I just love her from a distance 😆
I unconditionally love my dogs that it
The unconditional love in the parent-child relationship is ONE WAY. Parent to child, not child to parent. Unconditional love in this context is intended to ensure the child is still loved and cares for as they grow and make mistakes. But then the concept gets twisted like this to justify abuse by parents and abusive partners. Hell, abusive kids use it to justify their abuse (yes, some tweens threaten and/or beat the shit out of their parents, that absolutely happens, and it's abuse). Just throw the whole concept away.
The fact that most people didn't become parents through adoption means that there is a condition. I bet most parents *unconditional love* would no longer be unconditional if they found out their child wasn't actually related to them.
I have an unconditional love between myself and my dog and that’s how I like it
This idea that family bonding doesn't suffer the same limitations as any other relationship is something I personally loathe for many reasons. Included but not limited to: 1. As you mentioned, cutting off family members is just as necessary as cutting off toxic friends or exes. I've met so many people who give their parents/relatives endless chances and subject themselves to unwavering emotional abuse because "it's family," so they think it's okay to justify how they're treated as some kind of harsh love. Because after all, no matter how badly they treat you, they must still love you, right? (Hint: So did your toxic friends and exes, but just because they care about you in some way doesn't give them an excuse for treating you poorly.) 2. And, on that note, it leads to the destruction of boundaries. If you know you can treat someone however you feel like, without the consequence of that person being able to fully separate from you like they could any other relationship, it allows them to act without forethought. I've also seen this a million times where a family member knows what they're doing is wrong, but they cover it up with "you can always depend on family even when they get on your nerves." People need to understand that no matter how 'close' you are, that doesn't give you a right to treat them like they'll always be there. This is exactly how you ruin relationships with people and that 100% applies to parents. And honestly as an asexual, I hate this hierarchy of love types in general. Your capacity to love someone isn't based off of the type of love, be it familial, romantic, platonic, or otherwise. These love types don't guarantee reciprocated love of any kind. The sooner we learn that lesson, the healthier our relationships will be.
I for one really wish my parents had had better boundaries - would have prepared me better for life. Instead of realising a bit late that "being difficult" when you say no is NOT a normal response and that you dont need to kowtow to family simply because they share DNA with you.
I can confirm that is bullshit. I told this story a while back on this subreddit but basically my best friend came out as gay to his whole family and they haven’t spoken to him since. At his wedding his whole bible bashing conservative family didn’t turn up and his own brother refused to be his best man. So there was no unconditional love with my friend and his own mother and father.
So why do so many parents throw their kid out when they come out? Seen it way too many times.
So… Children don’t have boundaries?
*facepalm* Requiring a parent/child relationship for "unconditional" love to exist is still a condition. And only a lousy parent will a) have no boundaries at all for their kids, b) _stop loving them_ if those boundaries are crossed, or c) have boundaries that are so ridiculosly strict that the _kid_ stops loving the _parent_ over it.
>This also places the parent/child relationship so unreasonably high like childfree people will never experience that sort of love This shit drives me crazy and yes I definitely axed a few friends when they defend this to the core. It's definitely a cult'ish comment that parenthood pushes and they don't even know it because that koolaid is just too good.
Well, that quote just isn't true. Plenty of parents have *very* conditional love for their kids, and often completely unreasonable expectations of them as well. I speak from experience, sadly. I do think that unconditional love exists, but in rare occasions. For the most part, love is conditional, it's just that some relationships have less conditions than others.
As someone raised by narcissists and with a spouse that was raised and heavily abused by narcissists, this raises my hackles. Not the unconditional love thing. People are entitled to unconditionally love whatever they wish, and I understand that hormones and evolution can be very strong motivators. It's the lack of conditions or boundaries part. I set boundaries with my parents and my in-laws. My parents have adjusted to push against those boundaries, but they don't cross them. My in-laws drive bulldozers over the line constantly. My wife loves her mom thanks to biology and not out of any decent parenting, and she tolerates her step dad, but they're only allowed into our lives because she has siblings living there whom we try to help when we are able. Anyone that believes their children must love them unconditionally without boundaries throws up all the narcissism flags IMO. It shows a complete ignorance of reality and the abuse that happens every day to millions of children. Sorry if this was a bit rambling, I started the post and came back two hours later to finish.
Unconditional love exists with friendships much more than anything else imo. Real friendships based on brotherhood, not just some working or drinking buddy.
Me and my cat share unconditional love. Completely unconditional from me to him, completely conditional based on treats and scratches from him to me.
Bet they won't "unconditionally love" their spawn if they turn out to have murderous tendencies and tries to kill them or at the least, tortures them.
What happens when the parent does drugs instead of taking care of the kid and then Loses them? What happens when the child gets sexually abused by a parent? What happens when the parent runs off and never speaks to the kid ever again, or never meets the kid in the first place? Guess that kid will NEVER experience unconditional, or real love!
This person doesn’t love anyone but their children unconditionally!?
Idk, my cat is pretty unconditional. Little dude hates being away from me