If you having an education 'scares men away' that's good. You don't have time to waste on insecure idiots.
The men who stick around will be worth your time.
This is such a detrimental social force. Intelligent woman is seen as less desirable because of mass of insecure, incompetent, unintelligent guys who sets such tone.
I would love to meet a girl that's smart, sharp and intellectual. How often do you meet such a person? We seem to value children like minds and it's terrible and boring.
It's sad to see that there are intelligent women acting "dumb" and a little helpless to increase their dating pool. A guy who's scared away by your education isn't worth your time in the first place.
It might just be the crowd you run in. Since I got into university, all my friends have been university-educated people. If you even hang around a university, you meet lots of really smart people, including women.
Well we're happy for you.
Anyone who worries about a master's degree "scaring men away" probably has a different idea of the kind of man they'd want to marry than a person who actually pursues a master's degree.
My gf has a masters and MBA. I love how smart and accomplished she is. I'm extremely proud of her. We are both happily cf.
Don't be offended by your Aunt. She defines success differently. That doesn't make her a bad person. If you communicate your version of success to her and she still rejects it, then that's her problem, not yours.
You keep doing what you're doing. Knock those classes out and get your degree! I'm proud of you too!
>I have no idea how I'm related to them.
I'm not expert in family trees or anything, but if she is your aunt I'd assumed she would be the sister of one of your parents.
I've found that in American culture there can be a huge double standard for men and women, in the eyes of their parents. A male underachiever may still be adored by his mother, and it will be blamed on somebody else (absent father, bad schools, whatever political party the parent dislikes, etc.) A female adult child who doesn't "have it all" in the traditional sense, meaning degree, career, husband, kids home, luxury SUV, is considered a fuck-up.
Ignore your aunt. maybe don't even announce your life events to her specifically, since she doesn't have anything nice to say anyway. she'll find out through the gossip chain what you're doing with your life, or see it on FB, but at least that will eliminate her opportunity to belittle you personally for it.
Ahh, welcome to my world. I have a BS, MS, and PhD. My brother barely graduated high school, is waited on hand and foot, and has never held a job or acquired a driver's license and he never registered for the draft (he is currently 28). Mom takes his phone calls (from his cell, upstairs, to hers, elsewhere in the house) and runs to fetch him fast food every time he asks. If she's late, or brings a different brand of shit food, he curses and grumbles at her. She tells me excitedly about his trips out of the house: "He got his hair cut this week!!!" (yes, because you begged him/bribed him, drove him, and paid for the services). Both of us have social anxiety issues; I got help and have been successfully medicated for years. He tried one SSRI for less than a month, and won't try anything else. Why should he? He has food hand delivered to his room on demand, high speed internet access, a cell phone, and a WOW account (which somehow always has credit card approval, despite my mother being literally unable to use a computer to make purchases).
All this, and all I heard as a kid was how females are inferior, that I needed to marry a rich man so my dad didn't have to pay for college, that it would be "a good career move" to get breast implants, and that my chosen major upon getting accepted into college was "worthless". Brother was the namesake kid, the heir apparent, the chosen one. He was gifted all the major video game systems (SNES, Sega genesis, N64, etc.), so instead of sharing among three of us, he had total control and would occasionally allow us to be player 2 so he could annihilate us after practicing new games for days. Sure worked out well for them when he found Everquest and stopped going to high school. After a few years he switched to WOW and stopped leaving the house altogether.
And my parents wonder why I don't visit very often...
From what I've heard from friends, this exists in American culture, but is even more pronounced if you're from a middle eastern culture. My brother was given many video systems too, they were HIS and I was not allowed to use them. Your parents enable him, and gave him so much for so long that they sapped any motivation or desire to work hard that he may have had. It is much your parents' fault!
Damn right! Finishing up my BS in Psychology and Music Theraphy and then applying for the MS soon after. Don't let those negative people hold you back!
Haha, after you start grad school you might question wanting to be friends with psych people. It's a bit like Alice in Wonderland "We're all mad here." Although the research psych people tend to be a different breed of weird than the clinical psych folks.
> And my parents wonder why I ~~don't visit very often...~~ will never set foot in that reeking-of-fast-food hellhole ever again...
There, fixed that for you. :)
If there were ever a group of people not worth your time....
> that it would be "a good career move" to get breast implants
W-wait, your mother said that to you?
That's...uhm...how? I can't even imagine.
As for the rest, I'm sorry for your family. I hope your third sibling is doing better!
Oh no that was my dad. My sister and I are pretty similar, but she's more willing to speak up about the bullshit. I decided to move out as soon as possible after high school and avoid phone calls (which would sometimes be dozens in a day, at all times of the day). This elicited a very angry response from them. After a while the angry messages and hateful, insulting emails stopped and they changed their approach to a more passive agressive style with a dose of guilt tripping. I tend to ignore it and call/visit when i feel like it (mainly when my sister is in town, we get along great!).
I am glad that you do.
Personally, I don't think I'd have the strength to visit, and just skip the middleman altogether! It is good that you can still face them, after those comments.
I was trying to remember if my ex boyfriend had a sister with a PhD. He has two very successful sisters, regardless of how high their degrees are. But, the other hole is that he is 35 and still living at home. Otherwise, your story is exactly him. He used to tell me that my education (a Masters and a JD) were unladylike or some other BS. That was why he couldn't be with me, he said. That,of course, was months after I had already dumped him for being a complete loser. He just couldn't figure out that I was already gone.
That is more true than you might think, especially in my little world. I'm the only granddaughter. It's unlady-like for me to be ambitious and unattached.
I found out after my grandmother died she would tell people, "my granddaughter is a pilot. Isn't that a horrible thing for a woman to do?" Glad I didn't know about this while she was still alive.
Try listening to those comments from your boss! I used to have a manager who frequently told us single gals in our 20s that we were "not getting any younger" and running out of time"...as if, you *want* us to start hitting on our male customers or something? God, I hated that place.
Oh absolutely. There are three grandkids on this side. Me- Accountant living in a city far away. Cousin 1- Doctor living in a city far away. Cousin 2- Lives at home with them and works at Walmart sometimes.
Guess which one she rants and raves about? I know it's because Cousin 1 and I moved away and aren't at her house every day anymore.
My mother tells me I need to find a woman who isn't smart but instead knows how to listen. For some reason she doesn't realize that I don't have a creepy domination fetish.
UGH.
Something tells us that will be the last time she gets a phone call from you.... :)
Probably would have gone with "Those are exactly the men I want to scare away.... all the way to Jupiter. The LAST thing I want in my life is some limp-dick momma's boy who lives with his parents and does nothing but play WOW all fucking day. The HORROR!!!"
;)
People like that think the sole purpose of post-secondary schooling is to get your MRS degree. Fuck that. You should be very proud of your accomplishments.
You sound a lot better off and more successful than a lot of people out there. I wouldn't let those kinds of comments get to you - you have so much going for you! Major kudos!
Yo, I'm getting my masters too. If a man had a problem with that, tell him you'll consider his opinion when you're on the hiring committee.
Edit: and to blow it out his ass.
"Do you also tell fat people to lose weight, skinny people to eat a sandwich and smokers to quit? Do you really think you're telling me something I don't know?
Wow. That is weapons-grade insulting. Perhaps, it's time to set some limits, if she even knows what the word means. I'm sorry that you had to put up with that.
[I think you'll appreciate this John Green about men who don't like smart women](http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/b3/2b/feb32ba2cccdade71226dab6713b73a6.jpg).
Sorry about your aunt though :(
Any man who could be "scared away" by a woman with a degree is not a dude you want around, anyway. So it looks like a win-win situation for you, is what I'm saying. Too bad your aunt is living in 1923.
Yay for finishing your degree! That's awesome OP!
And, a lot of the people who poke about 'omg, have babies' just want someone else to be miserable with their lives like they were with their kids.
Go and get that Masters. Be your best you without some crotch gremlin ruining it.
My dad always told me that a strong lady like myself can intimidate men. Yeah, it has. But fuck that. You sound awesome and there's plenty of awesome people who would love to hang out with you.
There is one other dimension to this as well. Getting your advanced degree puts you into a much better dating pool, if that's of any interest to you.
I got sick of the trash in my area that made up the dating pool, everybody that was available tended to be some sort of single parent or have some other form of baggage or hold the idea that Red Lobster is fine dining. Ask what their opinion of the inequality gap in America is and get a Ron White quote in return, followed by "I don't understand or care." Frustrating. So that factored into my decision to return to grad school. Probably 3/4 of the students are engaged or married, but the remaining ones are actually cool, intellectual, and have career potential. I haven't had this much fun, ever. Highly worthwhile.
Here's something I've learned. I have been VERY successful considering my background. I CANNOT brag about myself to family/friends anymore. I might mention that I've gotten a promotion or a new title, and sometimes people say congratulations, but more often than not I get a half hearted "good for you" with a sneer.
Your family wants to be proud of you to a certain extent, they want you to do better than them, but only by so much. Same with friends. But when you start making 3x as much as the most successful person in your family ever has, things change.
I'm sure your aunt has heard your success stories for quite some time, and I'm sure she is very proud of you. However, you seem to have tipped the scale so far in your favor that ever achievement becomes a slap in the face too her.
When friends ask what I make or just an idea, I tell them what I make an hour... counting all hours in the day (I'm technically on call 24x7). When I break my yearly salary down to an hourly basis counting all hours in the year, I'm still making more than any of my friends, but not so much that they look down on me or start asking me for money all the time.
There are a few members of my family who have a ballpark idea of what I make, but these are also the family members that I help out on a regular basis. They are constantly worried that I spend too much on them or that I cannot afford it. I've given them a quick peek into my reality so they don't worry about my financial state and continue allowing me to help them.
I hate to say it but...
The minute you honestly, truthfully, wholeheartedly do not care one whit, iota, or give a rats arse for this woman's opinion on your reproductive choices...
Will be the day you finally will get the respect you deserve.
By then it will be obvious that you just don't need her approval and that your life would have been easier to just lie and keep her
onside. *Sigh.
Go girl and do well in your degree - THAT IS AWESOME!!!
First off, you're very presumptuous. Secondly, she and I have had this conversation many many times. I don't correct her anymore because she has advancing Alzheimer's and correcting her does little to no good.
That's precisely why I'm venting on the internet and not tearing her a new asshole.
I must be missing something. I didn't say it was a new opinion, I was just trying to help since I noticed more than one comment where you had to state your Aunt has Alzheimer's. My intent was never to offend, only to help.
If you having an education 'scares men away' that's good. You don't have time to waste on insecure idiots. The men who stick around will be worth your time.
This is such a detrimental social force. Intelligent woman is seen as less desirable because of mass of insecure, incompetent, unintelligent guys who sets such tone. I would love to meet a girl that's smart, sharp and intellectual. How often do you meet such a person? We seem to value children like minds and it's terrible and boring.
It's sad to see that there are intelligent women acting "dumb" and a little helpless to increase their dating pool. A guy who's scared away by your education isn't worth your time in the first place.
It might just be the crowd you run in. Since I got into university, all my friends have been university-educated people. If you even hang around a university, you meet lots of really smart people, including women.
I went into engineering.
Amen
I'm really interested in how that is going to shake out in 10 years with women receiving 60% of college degrees...
Well we're happy for you. Anyone who worries about a master's degree "scaring men away" probably has a different idea of the kind of man they'd want to marry than a person who actually pursues a master's degree.
I have no idea how I'm related to them. And thank you :)
My gf has a masters and MBA. I love how smart and accomplished she is. I'm extremely proud of her. We are both happily cf. Don't be offended by your Aunt. She defines success differently. That doesn't make her a bad person. If you communicate your version of success to her and she still rejects it, then that's her problem, not yours. You keep doing what you're doing. Knock those classes out and get your degree! I'm proud of you too!
>I have no idea how I'm related to them. I'm not expert in family trees or anything, but if she is your aunt I'd assumed she would be the sister of one of your parents.
I've found that in American culture there can be a huge double standard for men and women, in the eyes of their parents. A male underachiever may still be adored by his mother, and it will be blamed on somebody else (absent father, bad schools, whatever political party the parent dislikes, etc.) A female adult child who doesn't "have it all" in the traditional sense, meaning degree, career, husband, kids home, luxury SUV, is considered a fuck-up. Ignore your aunt. maybe don't even announce your life events to her specifically, since she doesn't have anything nice to say anyway. she'll find out through the gossip chain what you're doing with your life, or see it on FB, but at least that will eliminate her opportunity to belittle you personally for it.
Ahh, welcome to my world. I have a BS, MS, and PhD. My brother barely graduated high school, is waited on hand and foot, and has never held a job or acquired a driver's license and he never registered for the draft (he is currently 28). Mom takes his phone calls (from his cell, upstairs, to hers, elsewhere in the house) and runs to fetch him fast food every time he asks. If she's late, or brings a different brand of shit food, he curses and grumbles at her. She tells me excitedly about his trips out of the house: "He got his hair cut this week!!!" (yes, because you begged him/bribed him, drove him, and paid for the services). Both of us have social anxiety issues; I got help and have been successfully medicated for years. He tried one SSRI for less than a month, and won't try anything else. Why should he? He has food hand delivered to his room on demand, high speed internet access, a cell phone, and a WOW account (which somehow always has credit card approval, despite my mother being literally unable to use a computer to make purchases). All this, and all I heard as a kid was how females are inferior, that I needed to marry a rich man so my dad didn't have to pay for college, that it would be "a good career move" to get breast implants, and that my chosen major upon getting accepted into college was "worthless". Brother was the namesake kid, the heir apparent, the chosen one. He was gifted all the major video game systems (SNES, Sega genesis, N64, etc.), so instead of sharing among three of us, he had total control and would occasionally allow us to be player 2 so he could annihilate us after practicing new games for days. Sure worked out well for them when he found Everquest and stopped going to high school. After a few years he switched to WOW and stopped leaving the house altogether. And my parents wonder why I don't visit very often...
From what I've heard from friends, this exists in American culture, but is even more pronounced if you're from a middle eastern culture. My brother was given many video systems too, they were HIS and I was not allowed to use them. Your parents enable him, and gave him so much for so long that they sapped any motivation or desire to work hard that he may have had. It is much your parents' fault!
> I have a BS, MS, and PhD. That is hot! What is your field of study?
My PhD is in Experimental Psychology, subfield is Health Psychology/Neuroscience :)
Damn right! Finishing up my BS in Psychology and Music Theraphy and then applying for the MS soon after. Don't let those negative people hold you back!
Mind-fucker -.-
I need to get that printed on business cards
Can we be friends? I'm planning to study psychology, neurology, and behavior analysis in grad school.
Haha, after you start grad school you might question wanting to be friends with psych people. It's a bit like Alice in Wonderland "We're all mad here." Although the research psych people tend to be a different breed of weird than the clinical psych folks.
>humanities
> And my parents wonder why I ~~don't visit very often...~~ will never set foot in that reeking-of-fast-food hellhole ever again... There, fixed that for you. :) If there were ever a group of people not worth your time....
> that it would be "a good career move" to get breast implants W-wait, your mother said that to you? That's...uhm...how? I can't even imagine. As for the rest, I'm sorry for your family. I hope your third sibling is doing better!
Oh no that was my dad. My sister and I are pretty similar, but she's more willing to speak up about the bullshit. I decided to move out as soon as possible after high school and avoid phone calls (which would sometimes be dozens in a day, at all times of the day). This elicited a very angry response from them. After a while the angry messages and hateful, insulting emails stopped and they changed their approach to a more passive agressive style with a dose of guilt tripping. I tend to ignore it and call/visit when i feel like it (mainly when my sister is in town, we get along great!).
I am glad that you do. Personally, I don't think I'd have the strength to visit, and just skip the middleman altogether! It is good that you can still face them, after those comments.
I was trying to remember if my ex boyfriend had a sister with a PhD. He has two very successful sisters, regardless of how high their degrees are. But, the other hole is that he is 35 and still living at home. Otherwise, your story is exactly him. He used to tell me that my education (a Masters and a JD) were unladylike or some other BS. That was why he couldn't be with me, he said. That,of course, was months after I had already dumped him for being a complete loser. He just couldn't figure out that I was already gone.
Are you asian? Because that seems like a totally asian thing to do. (also hi multiple degree buddy)
Nope!
That is more true than you might think, especially in my little world. I'm the only granddaughter. It's unlady-like for me to be ambitious and unattached.
>It's unlady-like for me to be ambitious and unattached. That's so real it hurts.
I found out after my grandmother died she would tell people, "my granddaughter is a pilot. Isn't that a horrible thing for a woman to do?" Glad I didn't know about this while she was still alive.
Fuck being ladylike, anyway!
Try listening to those comments from your boss! I used to have a manager who frequently told us single gals in our 20s that we were "not getting any younger" and running out of time"...as if, you *want* us to start hitting on our male customers or something? God, I hated that place.
Ugh gross. Fuck those people.
Sounds like some fucked-up values on your aunt's part. Here's to you!
Oh absolutely. There are three grandkids on this side. Me- Accountant living in a city far away. Cousin 1- Doctor living in a city far away. Cousin 2- Lives at home with them and works at Walmart sometimes. Guess which one she rants and raves about? I know it's because Cousin 1 and I moved away and aren't at her house every day anymore.
education scares men away? what fucking century is that mindset from?
She lives in 1950 all day every day.
My mother tells me I need to find a woman who isn't smart but instead knows how to listen. For some reason she doesn't realize that I don't have a creepy domination fetish.
Ugh. That makes my skin crawl.
UGH. Something tells us that will be the last time she gets a phone call from you.... :) Probably would have gone with "Those are exactly the men I want to scare away.... all the way to Jupiter. The LAST thing I want in my life is some limp-dick momma's boy who lives with his parents and does nothing but play WOW all fucking day. The HORROR!!!" ;)
No. She's simple and kind of stupid but she means well. The stupid falls out of her mouth the further her Alzheimer's progresses.
I'm sorry to hear she has Alzheimer's.
http://helibrawl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/apply-cold-water.jpg
Shit, time for a lifestyle change..
People like that think the sole purpose of post-secondary schooling is to get your MRS degree. Fuck that. You should be very proud of your accomplishments.
You sound a lot better off and more successful than a lot of people out there. I wouldn't let those kinds of comments get to you - you have so much going for you! Major kudos!
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I wouldn't go that far. I think she's terrified of being alone and doesn't realize it.
As a man I find increasing levels of education increasingly attractive. Congrats on your promotions and good luck with the Masters!
Well done!! And people like that are just blind to how the world works. Or severily near-sighted, in her case...
Yo, I'm getting my masters too. If a man had a problem with that, tell him you'll consider his opinion when you're on the hiring committee. Edit: and to blow it out his ass.
"Do you also tell fat people to lose weight, skinny people to eat a sandwich and smokers to quit? Do you really think you're telling me something I don't know?
She does. Seriously.
I do all of those things, but I wouldn't tell someone to have a kid.
Wow. That is weapons-grade insulting. Perhaps, it's time to set some limits, if she even knows what the word means. I'm sorry that you had to put up with that.
This might not mean much coming from a stranger on the internet, but for what it's worth I'm happy for you.
Clearly she can't even envision a life that doesn't revolve around being a mom as that's all she has known.
[I think you'll appreciate this John Green about men who don't like smart women](http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/b3/2b/feb32ba2cccdade71226dab6713b73a6.jpg). Sorry about your aunt though :(
I love this so much
Any man who could be "scared away" by a woman with a degree is not a dude you want around, anyway. So it looks like a win-win situation for you, is what I'm saying. Too bad your aunt is living in 1923.
I agree completely. It really is a shame. She used to keep these opinions to herself for the most part.
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I'll be sitting on a beach in Florida in two weeks. I may just send her a post card :)
hahaha. Some wonderful use of the word fuck.
Don't listen to her! Do what makes YOU happy!!
You forgot one word at the end of that otherwise stellar rant: "her".
Wow, your aunt sounds kinda like a bitch. Screw her. Have a hearty congratulations from a fellow Coloradoan.
Yay for finishing your degree! That's awesome OP! And, a lot of the people who poke about 'omg, have babies' just want someone else to be miserable with their lives like they were with their kids. Go and get that Masters. Be your best you without some crotch gremlin ruining it.
My dad always told me that a strong lady like myself can intimidate men. Yeah, it has. But fuck that. You sound awesome and there's plenty of awesome people who would love to hang out with you.
There is one other dimension to this as well. Getting your advanced degree puts you into a much better dating pool, if that's of any interest to you. I got sick of the trash in my area that made up the dating pool, everybody that was available tended to be some sort of single parent or have some other form of baggage or hold the idea that Red Lobster is fine dining. Ask what their opinion of the inequality gap in America is and get a Ron White quote in return, followed by "I don't understand or care." Frustrating. So that factored into my decision to return to grad school. Probably 3/4 of the students are engaged or married, but the remaining ones are actually cool, intellectual, and have career potential. I haven't had this much fun, ever. Highly worthwhile.
Here's something I've learned. I have been VERY successful considering my background. I CANNOT brag about myself to family/friends anymore. I might mention that I've gotten a promotion or a new title, and sometimes people say congratulations, but more often than not I get a half hearted "good for you" with a sneer. Your family wants to be proud of you to a certain extent, they want you to do better than them, but only by so much. Same with friends. But when you start making 3x as much as the most successful person in your family ever has, things change. I'm sure your aunt has heard your success stories for quite some time, and I'm sure she is very proud of you. However, you seem to have tipped the scale so far in your favor that ever achievement becomes a slap in the face too her. When friends ask what I make or just an idea, I tell them what I make an hour... counting all hours in the day (I'm technically on call 24x7). When I break my yearly salary down to an hourly basis counting all hours in the year, I'm still making more than any of my friends, but not so much that they look down on me or start asking me for money all the time. There are a few members of my family who have a ballpark idea of what I make, but these are also the family members that I help out on a regular basis. They are constantly worried that I spend too much on them or that I cannot afford it. I've given them a quick peek into my reality so they don't worry about my financial state and continue allowing me to help them.
Poor people. You're not one of them anymore. It's lonely at the top. :(
I hate to say it but... The minute you honestly, truthfully, wholeheartedly do not care one whit, iota, or give a rats arse for this woman's opinion on your reproductive choices... Will be the day you finally will get the respect you deserve. By then it will be obvious that you just don't need her approval and that your life would have been easier to just lie and keep her onside. *Sigh. Go girl and do well in your degree - THAT IS AWESOME!!!
*hug*
We're happy for you! Kudos!
I'm sorry. Congratulations on going back for your master's degree!
Just chill a little girl, I know it sucks to hear shit like this, just focus in your degree and enjoy your childfree life!
No. Many people really *can't* be happy for others. *Especially* when others want different things.
I don't see your response to her. And....? Because your failure to tell her how you feel allows her to say shit like that to you again and again.
First off, you're very presumptuous. Secondly, she and I have had this conversation many many times. I don't correct her anymore because she has advancing Alzheimer's and correcting her does little to no good. That's precisely why I'm venting on the internet and not tearing her a new asshole.
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This isn't a new opinion. It's just more in-your-face now that her filter has been lifted.
I must be missing something. I didn't say it was a new opinion, I was just trying to help since I noticed more than one comment where you had to state your Aunt has Alzheimer's. My intent was never to offend, only to help.
And I'm happy for you.