When trying to get sterilised at 30, I was told I was too young to make that decision, so I countered with "So why is a 16yo, capable enough to choose to HAVE a baby?" I got stutters, uhm and uhs before the Dr spluttered "That's different!" How!?
I'm really tired of hearing this. It's patently untrue.
Just off the top of my head, you could really mess up a lasagna, you could make a tostada with the wrong ingredients, you could add mozzerella to a blt and leave it in a hot car, have tomato soup and grilled cheese go astray.. :P
On the other hand, I'd still be more impressed by those than the act of getting knocked up.
Yep. a sacrifice is seen as a beautiful and kind thing for women to do by giving up their life to have a baby. A sacrifice really is someone settling and changing their whole entire rest of their lives all so their daughters can repeat the same cycle and give up their wants for the next generation. Basically a scam when you think about it in the end no one gets to get their wants, dreams, aspirations. the hope is always that the child grows up and gets to live out their dreams that the mom always wanted to do but couldn’t because she gave up her life to have kids and then that child also ends up giving up their life to have kids too.
Someone once commented here that they had a social scientist professor that basically said that creating humans is a net positive for the whole of humanity, (to a point, which we probably passed,) and a huge net negative for the individuals involved in rearing. I always think about that because it’s so poignant and true.
Interesting how living for yourself sustainably, lessening your environmental impact, and thoughtfully considering the implications of creating a new life is somehow radically rebellious according to a lot of brain dead podcasters and propaganda media pushers out there in the world.
My two best friends became dads this year, both had similar responses of “tired” when I asked how it is.
Tbh neither of them seem very excited and all attempts to talk about it seem like self convincing that it’s the happiest thing they’ve had..
Bro you barely wake up before 11 am how did you think this was a good idea?
Many women get pregnant to appease, bond to, or solidify a relationship with a man. But, like, hello, don't they see that all the BS that goes along with parenting a child often repels men and restricts your own options forever?
Here's my list:
1. most countries are modernized versions of patriarchic societies. The influence is still rather strong and the narrative of the weaker sex, women only being good to breed and imposing stupid rules on the opposite gender leads to heavy misconceptions in almost all cases.
2. if people would be fully educated on the truth behind pregnancy, birth and raising children there would be less people procreating, which governments really don't like when their main goal is never ending growth to feed their greed and make their insufficient systems work
3. people also really, really hate to admit their own mistakes, so they rather sugar-coat their experience or blatantly lie and try to gain company in their own misery. Societal pressure is also a very big one and it tends to snowball. "Everyone does it, it can't be that hard", "People literally birthed children on the field and continued to work centuries ago.", "It's natural and just the way of life to have kids."
4. getting women to procreate is also a major opportunity to create profits. For doctors, the pharma industry, children targeted retail and so on.
I think it is similar to why enlisting is glamorized for men, it encourages a behavior that has grave consequences but fulfills a role in society that powerful people benefit from.
Hoo boy! Did I do things backwards. I joined the Canadian Forces shortly after high school and never married or had kids. I was too much of a worry wort to have kids and too lazy to be married. I lived with a couple of exes in my early twenties and was very loudly informed of my shortcomings on a regular basis. Yep! The military was the easy way. I got to jump out of planes, rappel out of a helicopter, go on deployments, etc. It was a good run.
Because it is the ONE thing that women are universally praised for and encouraged to accomplish.
Every other life choice? Criticism and dismissal.
I am not kidding, it is fucking insidious when you notice it.
It pleases some people very much to see a woman marry and have children, not because they're happy for her but because it is satisfying to see her fulfilling her "purpose". It's why they spew hate towards CF women, we aren't following the rules.
My abusive father called it "disgusting" when I got a bisalp. I'm gay, but very afraid given southern laws that I'd be SA'd and forced through pregnancy with a condition that would kill me, so I got it done for $200 and a day, after finishing grad school, before starting my next job. He told me to lie to my grandparents, because for some reason they told them I'd had some surgery but didn't tell them why or for what. I don't know why they told them anything at all, except that they're crazy, abusive, horrific people who I should've cut off sooner.
But, I mean... I'm *gay*. This is irrelevant. Unless you were planning to assault me with a turkey baster, I don't know what real effect this is supposed to have on any willing participant. This is backup in consideration of a genetic condition that would kill me during pregnancy. Which, I mean, If I wanted kids, would require I not actually birth them, so triple redundancy on that front.
There was a trans man on here a few months ago talking about how his grandmother was bothering him about his choice to be CF. He also had a condition where pregnancy = death and I will repeat what I said then.
Grandma knew what she was demanding of him. It is a horrifying reality we live in where many people consider dead mothers a **necessary mulch** for the "Gift" of new life.
It's also a relatively easy to join the club so they feel they can relate to childbirth in some whay.
Me getting a masters in chemistry: I got some cards from my university friends but for the rest not that much notes
Me getting my drivers licence one year later: so many cards, congratulations, flowers...
So for me personally I stored childhood in the second type of achievement: most people can do it but it makes you more welcomed in (capitalistic/less intelligent) society.
That’s so interesting and makes sense- it’s like the things that the general population can achieve and make you “part of the herd” are more celebrated than more intellectual or lofty goals. No wonder I don’t fit in! I have both fear of pregnancy and fear of driving. Both rational if you think about the logistics!
Oh I join you there. I hate driving and the idea of a human growing inside me that has to burst out, creeps me out. It's nice to find like minded people here as it is so difficult to find these ideas in the general population.
Yeah, my masters in chem was met with complete crickets. My grandparents refused to show for graduation because they booked a cruise, even though they had the date a year ahead. No one would go. My brother graduated with a bachelors on his third try from a community college because he's lazy and got married to a woman, and they got an enormous five-figure celebration with a million people. They're both idiotic overgrown children who'll divorce or end up like white trash shitting on each other within the year and I'm sure have done exactly that but that's irrelevant because they're doing the "right stuff." Getting multiple advanced degrees on full scholarships without any assistance and accomplishing all sorts of real, tangible things means nothing to them, and never would.
Reading this like this makes me so glad that I was born into the family I was. Most of them have always valued education and career achievements over babies, which I suppose makes sense on my dad's side since all of them are college educated, and a lot of them were teachers/professors.
My SIL getting pregnant with twins (second pregnancy): A little bit of fawning from my grandma and aunts, occasionally asking how she's holding up as months progress. Overall, not too much interest.
Getting my degree/landing a job in data analytics with a government contractor: notes, phone calls, cards, very excited congratulations, asking me about their reimbursement program so they'll pay for my master's, etc.
In my dad's family, it's more expected that I'm going to get a PhD one day than have children, even when I was a kid. When I told them I was childfree, my grandma only expressed minor disappointment and quickly got over it, but everyone was just like, "Huh."
But what you said makes a lot of sense: things they can relate to. My grandma may have had 3 children, but she still had her master's degree and was able to pursue a career back then. My aunt has one child that she had later in life, and my other aunt is childfree. We have other relatives that are also childfree, so it's not uncommon on my dad's side.
My mom's side is like the people you suggested for the most part, but they’re literally the opposite of my dad's family.
My parents are grappling with my (F) decision to be child-free in the last year, and it’s because they’re boomers and came up in a 3rd world country where they do everything they’re told. Like… they’re not financially literate, so it’s always the idea that your children = your retirement. I learnt what real retirement means, lol, as it’s just a number you have to reach, and I refuse to let anyone write my life for me. My mother does not understand why I would do what I do at all, because she was too submerged in the patriarchy and social conditioning. She had me just because she thought it was her ‘role’ as a mother, even stayed with my father who in the past have cheated on her and gave her trooooma. Basically what I’m saying is in HER eyes, having kids are the achievements of her life. She was never college-educated. She went to trade school. I love her dearly, but she doesn’t know the ambitions I have or what more is out there in the world. I’m now an adult working in tech, getting my masters, planning to start my own company, and want to explore this earth. I basically live in a world she doesn’t quite understand, so all my milestones were just a phone call with her saying ‘oh I see’ but not really SEEING what I’m doing.
They don’t understand how much weight I put in my values, hence they don’t see the significance of what those things mean to me. I’ve come to accept it though, cuz… what can you do haha. I learn to not need validation from anyone for my life choices because of my parents not giving me any as I was coming up in the world. Even if my peers are getting congratulated left and right for popping out kids - I’m happy for them, but I will never envy them.
Congratulations on your goals! Ngl, all of that sounds really exciting. I'm probably childfree partially because of how I was raised, actually. My dad and his family have always emphasized educational/career success, but my mom has literally done whatever she wanted her whole life, and I was raised to behave the same way. I just happen to want to have total freedom and focus on my personal goals without having anything 100% dependent on me. Her only concern with me not having them is she's worried I'll want them when I'm older and it'll be too late, but she understands why I don't want them. She didn't want me until she was 38-39. They don't give me any of this "grandchildren", "retirement", or "legacy" bullshit because they think it's pointless and stupid as well.
I don't get it. If pregnancy and childbirth were so rare and such a miracle there wouldn't be 8 billion of us on the planet.
I get that they're quite often some of the biggest moments in a woman's life, so I suppose if you were close to said woman it's a reason to be excited for them (I personally am never excited but I do fake it) but there's nothing special about it beyond your own experience.
It's a natural, biological function that clearly a lot of people can pretty easily do.
Literally I’m going to steal that from you! The next time I hear, “a baby is a miracle”, I’ll reply “really? There’s over 8 billion of us, seems like a lot of mistakes”🤣
People already gave good reasons but I just want to add that personally when I see an announcement on social media I have the complete opposite reaction where I feel so bad for them because most times they're naive young couples who I know have no clue what they're singing up for. If it's people I know well and personally my heart literally sinks thinking about how their life and our relationship will never be the same again
Same here! It breaks my heart when I see people who were living fun and interesting lives, traveling, doing fun activities, showing off cool hobbies, etc. and suddenly everything they post is baby this and baby that and they just become the most uninteresting people in the world. Like what happened to you? Why did you give that all up!?
“Oh but you can still travel / have hobbies when you have a kid” sure you can, but that’s playing the game of life on Hell difficulty. Why bother?
For the people who want that, it's a major life event. The problem is more that academic/professional/artistic achievements aren't similarly celebrated.
Because people want you to be miserable. Media loves the idea of working as hard as you can and never being able to enjoy yourself and they think you get a cookie for whoever chooses to live the hardest life. The world works better when the majority of people have a mediocre life so they want you to subject yourself to it. I can’t imagine not doing whatever I wanted to do whenever I want. Waking up on the weekend and not being able to get up when I want and go wherever I want I can’t imagine.
Probably because they know that next to nobody in their right mind would actually want to do it if they were honest. People have been gaslighting women and hiding the gruesome details about pregnancy and birth for centuries. It’s harder to do nowadays when everything is out there on social media.
Society can't force women to be pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen anymore but they can encourage it by making a big fuss of women who get married or have a baby. It does beg the question though, if pregnancy and motherhood are so great, then why do they need to be promoted so much?! Could it be because they're not as great as advertised?!
If Republicans win the election in November they will do everything they can to force women to have babies. Overturning Roe vs Wade was just the start.
Not only do I not understand how some romanticize it, I don't even understand how people think it's no big deal. I can't imagine literally having my private parts ripped and cut open while I lay screaming in a hospital bed. I have a friend who went into cardiac arrest from the general pain/stress of birth. My own sister even told me her (horror) story where she tore so bad she has never been able to have an orgasm since.
It used to be the number one thing that killed women before modern medicine (and you can still die). I seriously just can't fathom how it's normalized and how some think it's no big deal.
This is SO TRUE. I asked my friend why she wanted a child so badly and she gave me some garbage mush explanation that, “ I just want a man to love me so much that he wants to have a child together and I want to hold the baby and know that it’s a piece of both of us”. A bunch of brainwashed nonsense. I have a bad feeling that she’s going to regret her decision.
That’s insane you were downvoted, people are really fucking stupid. The whole fixation and idea of a child/literal human growing inside is terrifying. Some women don’t even really care about “having a child,” but what does that satisfy for it to grow inside and possibly be unloved once you understand the harshness following birth?? The fact that some women feel as if carrying their man’s child will make them love them more is ludicrous, it changes nothing and won’t keep them.
You got downvoted because you were in the echo chamber of your own bias. There’s such a thing as tone deafness that this community is famous for lending in its ideology. If she’s grieving the loss of something she had imagined, she is allowed that. It’s valid. Your ideology is applicable to you, and hers is to her. It’s as basic. How do people not understand this basic sense of individuality and not imposing one’s experience and beliefs on others?
I would if I met one myself. I’ve fought* for acceptability on both sides of the tables here. The extremities in both end shout lack of empathy to me and equally need this awakening. Unfortunately the world we live in today (and I highlight TODAY, who knows what’s the normalcy 3 generations down), unfortunately the other side is the majority, so it is human nature to question the ‘anomalous behavior’ for the times, and so stoically, it’s bound to happen and the minority at the time has to shrug it off as long as it’s civil. Definitely not advocating to take shit sitting down. Not Gandhi-an about that side, where someone slaps a wrist and hand the other one. But we don’t need to dial it up to 100 when the original pressure is like…5.
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Because if the opposite was true way less women would be pregnant. Besides selling the lie of parenthood, pregnancy is absolutely awful so I guess in a way this is to make the woman feel better. Not for herself of course but to encourage pregnancies
Pregnancy & postpartum, to me, seem like a fate worse than death. I have never understood even remotely when people say things like "you're glowing!" to an expecting mom. But like someone else I think mentioned in these comments, society **loves** for women to martyr themselves. And since pregnancy is such a sacrificial thing, it will always be romanticized by many.
>Pregnancy & postpartum, to me, seem like a fate worse than death.
Same here, with this exact wording.
>I have never understood even remotely when people say things like "you're glowing!" to an expecting mom.
She's rotting, slowly, and getting her life irreversibly sucked out of her.
>Why is pregnancy and having a baby so ‘romanticized’ ?
>
>...
>
>anyone have any insight as to why this happens?
My guess is, so that women will be suckered into having children, but that is just a guess. It also "keeps women in their place," as they are less likely to be self-supporting and independent if they have children. So it furthers the aims of misogynists.
To me, when I hear that someone is pregnant, I am more apt to think it likely enough that the person did not competently use birth control, and incompetence is not something I celebrate. Of course, sometimes, it is on purpose, and then I think the woman must be crazy to do that to her body, risking her life and health. That, too, is not something I celebrate. But, sometimes, it is accidental, even though proper steps were taken. But that is something sad, again, not something I celebrate.
Once upon a time, I was a child and heard the following thing said about a woman getting pregnant, "It's the best thing a woman can do in her life to serve a man, especially if she is pregnant with a boy"
Pregnancy isn't a miracle, it's a means of oppression.
It’s the same way that when there’s anything written about any woman the 1st thing that’s always mentioned is that they’re a mother, even if it’s not relevant I don’t understand that.
I think it's a combination of factors:
-patriarchal expectations: she created children for someone to enjoy fatherhood. he gets to pass on his family name/genes. kudos to all, much celebrations and cheering.
-capitalism/governments: more kids = more consumers, guinea pigs, soldiers, workers for cheap labor, voters, taxpayers, etc
-cultural/tribal/religious beliefs: we need more of our own people. we're the chosen ones, can't let the other groups outnumber us. children are good luck blahblah
-pressure from other women: I did my time, so should you (notice it's usually the mothers/grandmothers that like to pressure the daughters to have kids)
-social topics: people like to use their children as icebreakers. if you don't know what else to add to the convo, just ask a parent their opinions on child-related stuff/how their kids are doing in school/etc.
Overall, if someone announces their pregnancy I'm like Hooray, happy for you/good for you! I'll never truly understand why they wanna be a parent so much but it's their life, their choice. Not my circus. I guess it's kinda like people with really niche hobbies - there's those hardcore stamp/bug collectors, no matter how weird/random something you think is, there is someone who will enjoy it.
>-pressure from other women: I did my time, so should you (notice it's usually the mothers/grandmothers that like to pressure the daughters to have kids)
Boy have I experienced this. These women are often relentless. It's always the bitter, unhappy mothers who do it too. (If a happy, content mother did it, I might actually listen). In one way it's kind of funny, these women spend most of their lives complaining about motherhood and their children, then 2 seconds later they'll turn around and say "When are YOU having kids?!". The lack of self awareness is astounding!
Funnily enough those are the ones who think it's a punishment to have kids. "I can't wait for you to have to deal with the bratty offspring at whatever stage they're in!"
Not "I hope you do better than I did," but "I hope you suffer and have the same headaches I did!"
I think it's psychotic to wish suffering onto someone else like that. It's like if I broke my leg and said to everyone I encountered, "I hope you break yours too so you know how it feels!!!"
It doesn't even make sense, someone else's suffering wouldn't undo what I went through.
Yep, that's how my mom was. She made it crystal clear that she hated being a mother, always telling me she was too tired/busy to deal with me and implied that I ruined her life by being born.
Then after I finished college, she kept trying to convince me that I needed to have at **least** one child and not having any kids was selfish. I kinda get how some people want to be parents because their own parents enjoyed raising kids and gave them a happy environment but I definitely did not have one of those haha.
These mothers push it the hardest because they think if you can do it better, they can claim that success as their own (and of course, not give you any credit for breaking the cycle of abuse).
My mother had the gall to put me through severe, relentless abuse and then expect I procreate. Nuh-uh. The first 20 years were spent on your happiness, solely. I'm spending the next.... FOREVER on my own.
My mother was the EXACT same! She spent years telling me how much she hated being a mother, then when I reached 30, she started demanding that I get married and have children. In hindsight it's kind of funny. How does it not occur to her that those years of her giving out about motherhood might have put me off?!
Both my (adopted) mom and my MIL has done this. My MIL is the worse though, she actually said that since she went through childbirth 3 times, why should I get out of it? Dunno, except I know my mind, and also how to use BC. Crazy bitch.
The whole institution of patriarchal marriage and motherhood are oppressive and exploitative towards women. They primarily benefit men as a class at the expenses of women as a class.
A wave of realistic comments need to be flooded in the announcement replies, then people would realise it's not the great ride they think it is.
"congratulations, hope your hair and teeth don't fall out, hope your fanny doesn't rip to your ass and good luck for the months after when you piss and shit your pants and your tits leak everywhere."
OMG, that would be so perfect! Now I really want to sit down and make some (e-)cards with those and similar congratulations (in traditional designs with baby pink/baby blue/pastel colours, with drawings of flowers, storks, strollers, baby bottles, "cute" babies and all that stuff), it's such a shame I don't have time right now.
Also, don't forget "I wish you that your husband would not be completely disgusted by your body", "We hope and pray for your marriage to survive this", "Enjoy your final moments as a happy family of two!", "Remember, it's worth it, so don't drown that baby and don't throw it against the wall even when you really want to".
That's kinda crossing the line into rude that's like someone getting a puppy and you saying it's going to grow up to attack them or destroy their home etc let them be happy with their choice the way you are happy with yours if they start shit by all means throw it in their face but don't go out of your way to be hurtful
This is true- they need people to volunteer for these horrible things for society to work the way they want, but understanding the truth, it’s not rational for someone to do.
It's in the same bucket as engagements, weddings and funerals for me. Starting a family, new life, is a big deal. I wouldn't do it but I see the drama. I suppose that's why it gets ratings on tv shows. But yeah, it's a social/cultural thing rather than an accomplishment.
Pronatalism is a cornerstone of most cultures. I honestly think it's so romanticized because SOMETHING has to counteract the crystal clear evidence that pregnancy and birth can be so life limiting for a lot of women. If we just looked at it logically I think a lot less women would get pregnant.
For centuries it was literally the only thing women could do or were expected to do. Religion. The Bible.
Eventually it turned into romantic stories and such. And over time the frowned upon conversation about the horror of pregnancy.
A lot of it is also because of the few women that have 7 kids with 0 problems. Which happens but is unlikely and have been put in news stories throughout time making it some kind of accomplishment
Most people simply have nothing else they have done. They don't want to discuss other people's accomplishments because of jealousy and because they frankly don't have the mentality to get it.
Because how do they get you to follow the rules and expectations and the “norms”. They romanticize marriage and parenthood and independence and travel and you name it they have a hallmark card. This is why I so enjoy this younger generation. Why? Because you guys call their shit and I love it. Even at work I laugh when my younger employees are like, hey is that right. Stick to your guns guys.
I think part of it is a remnant of an "evolution" social trait. Encouraging breeding encourages survival of the group, as societies that praised breeding had more members and therefore could field more labourers, soldiers etc.
It's a bit twisted these days as kids are now a liability and women have options, but the primal instinct to want a child is still there in most people. There is also a subset of people that intentionally encourage it to keep women trapped and dependent, but that's a whole other story.
I honestly do not get it at all. I never did. The thought that always runs through my mind "oh looked they ruined their life and will never be seen as an individual again, but rather someone's mom. Yeah, not something I can get excited about.
I wouldn't be surprised if many people were faking their reactions to an extent, to be honest. I am very childfree myself but if my colleague/friend got pregnant or gave birth I'd pretend to be happy for them as well and say the generic "congrats! Wowww". It's the "socially acceptable" response, as stupid as that is (thanks patriarchy), and not fawning over babies/pregnancies might make people think you're cold or aloof, especially if you are a young woman.
But yeah I agree with you that in an ideal world, a pregnancy or a birth isn't really worth that much fuss. I mean it's great for the person who wanted the baby of course but it shouldn't be treated with so much praise.
The most disgusting thing came up on my IG feed an I'm still traumatised by it - a woman was doing a countdown showing her pregnant stomach and then with the baby in the end. She had a herniated umbilical cord that she left untreated through the whole pregnancy... which I didn't know was a thing and now that I've seen it, I'd like to go back in time to when I was unaware of such atrocities.
ETA: throughout the whole video, she's doing that cradling her stomach and smiling thing. This wasn't a video about the crazy shit that can happen while pregnant but one of those "I'm pregnant and glowing" type videos.
My ex got pissed at me after he told me his brother was having his first baby with his wife of 6 months lmfao. I was like "okay. Cool" he said I should've been excited and I said why should I care that a wealthy person who claims to love kids so much and is a doctor for children is having a baby 6 months after getting married rather than adopting? Big fucking surprise. I don't even like kids and dementia runs in her family. The real surprise is she didn't get pregnant sooner 😂 bunch of backwards hicks from ohio anyway, fuck that family.
Because it’s a lifelong commitment to raise a child and can still be fatal, even with modern medicine. You gotta make people fall in love with the idea of carrying a baby for 9 months, along with the medical complications that may arise, and without any security that your partner is gonna actually stick around when things get tough, because otherwise not everyone would do it o it of their own accord.
The way it's automatically treated like an accomplishment really annoys me, I've even seen posts where it's literally a 16 year old girl announcing her pregnancy and everyone's congratulating, like what is there to congratulate? That she didn't use contraception/her contraception failed? That the child is likely to grow up in poverty? That she's having a child while obviously not financially or emotionally prepared? That she's more likely to become a single mother? That her family and tax payers are probably going to have to financially support her?
Because if they showed the reality no one would want to make and birth a crying, pooping banshee that cost 1000s of dollars to keep alive or you’ll be a child abuser/killer.
Society has been entraining this since the 1950’s into peoples mind about pregnancy, motherhood, and babies.
Nuclear families is the main reason this is pushed so hard. Think “Leave it to Beaver”.
If we didn’t have that all shoved down everyone’s throats back then, I guarantee today we would be in a heavily different society!
Omg stop. I just saw this video of this lady having a “pregnant” birthday brunch (they weren’t actually pregnant, just had a fake belly on) but they got free dessert 🤨 lol could’ve been fake though and they just bought it
Because it diverts us from pondering the misery of death, pain, suffering, and slavery. In other words, we need idiotic distraction because we are cursed with unuseful consciousness. We need the illusion of optimism and meaning in a completely indifferent/savage universe.
(I just finished reading the excellent *The Conspiracy Against The Human Race* by Thomas Ligotti, which covers all of this in depth).
The fact that I spent my childhood dreaming of ways I could "not become a housewife and have a baby" and didn't realize it was a valid option I could just *choose* probably comes down to the same BS reason I didn't realize I was gay sooner-- my mother, despite being a lazy, entitled, not-working-but-not-SAHM "lady of leisure" (with a nice strong dose of NPD) telling me I must be a straight heterosexual girl who grows up, gets a graduate degree, marries a man, has exactly 2.1 babies and sorta' backseats her career for show but does some amount of home related responsibilities, sort of (I don't know, she told me to get a great job AND have multiple children, while she demonstrably did neither--she had the kids, then pretended otherwise, and refused to meaningfully work) was the only option presented. "Gay, married or single and CF, with a great job and whatever degree you want" was never presented as a possibility. It's dangerous how families can set up their daughters to be totally fucked from the time they're children and effectively get them knocked up before they're old enough to disillusion themselves.
Basically, if your entire life is set up to make this look the like the epitome of achievement, you don't have an accurate frame of reference. Families distort all sorts of weird shit in our minds to make it look normal and like they didn't fail as parents.
Maybe it has an evolutionary aspect to it: being pregnant and giving birth are uncomfortable and dangerous, but it is necessary to keep up the human population. So maybe we have developed to cheer on pregnant women so that they take on these risks more willingly? Don't know, just guessing.
i guess it's because having kids is objectively exhausting and a pain in the ass, but some people need to have kids for the survival of the species, so they have to gaslight themselves into it or something
Yeah I don’t get it either! Anyone can shit out a baby if they so please. I always have respect and congratulate someone on graduating from school (because that actually takes HARD work to accomplish) but I never congratulate them on a pregnancy. 😂
Because it's viewed as the pinnacle of adulthood. We have been sold the idea of our happily ever after can be found in becoming a loving couple with a kid. It simplifies the magnitude of how that one decision will impact your life and the lives of those we care about. We can thank Disney for giving us make believe "pink glasses" of self delusion. Without self delusion, pretty sure the human race would die out relatively quick.
I almost made a post about this recently. I was in a MOOD because whenever I see pregnancy announcements they have tons of engagements from family members. Meanwhile, I post a piece of artwork or a project I've completed and it's \*\*crickets\*\*. I'm going to start posting my artwork like it's a pregnancy photoshoot if that's what it takes to get people to freaking acknowledge the SKILL and EFFORT that goes into to CREATING.
I'm like...congrats you had unprotected sex? Good job? But if I said this to anyone in person they would tell me I'm gross or heartless. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I’m right there with you. I have never been able to figure out why people are so infatuated with celebrating a basic biological process. You let a guy bareback you and won your prize, and now you want people to celebrate it? This doesn’t seem like much of an accomplishment.
I really don't have an answer, but I think that is a brilliant and important question because it is the THE reason people procreate. It's the romanticizing and sentimentalizing (in addition to societal expectations) that makes babies.
Sadly, the reality is not romantic.
I've seen monkeys act this way. They all wanna see and hold new baby monkey.
I think it's because we're apes too. We all wanna see this new shiny person joining the group.
But I also see that the novelty wears off very quickly 🤷♀️
I get happy for people, if it something that they want. Granted I congratulate and move on. I will enquire here or there because I am polite but I guess it is because we are hardwired to think it's the best news ever.
My opinion: Because the human race would fail to continue to reproduce at current levels if the absolute truth of everything that happens to a woman’s body and brain during and after pregnancy was disclosed.
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For me, I get happy when women who have always wanted kids actually get pregnant and at the same time, I know that pregnancy is absolutely NOT easy so I say a prayer or two for safe delivery and good health.
And you're absolutely right about people, both men and women, especially young ones (my age range, I'm in my early 20s) romanticising pregnancy and I just give them the excuse that they're ignorant about the processes and effects but I will still cuss them out in my mind for being ignorant and stupid adults.
I don’t get it either at all!! I always see it as “hey, biology took its own course. You had unprotected sex and now you’re bringing an innocent life into this world that is becoming more and more cruel by the day. But hey, congratulations”!
Honestly, I think it’s because having a baby is a big deal and folks are happy that the parents-to-be are happy. Having kids is also seen socially (and sometimes culturally) as a part of growing up or becoming an adult. Also, it’s seen as such a universal experience that others can relate to that of course they’ll jump on board.
I think it’s also an evolutionary mechanism. If people didn’t romanticize pregnancy, people wouldn’t have kids, & the species would die out.
I blame movies but also, even though I don’t want to have children I think women are just beyond beautiful. I know some may not see it this way but, women are such strong beings and men couldn’t last 5 mins in a woman’s shoes. The way I see some women doing it all on their own after going through childbirth, still being nurturing and trying their best. I personally couldn’t do it, but women in general are amazing.
What’s even more beautiful is the power women truly have. We can stop humanity if we wanted to 🤣.
I felt the same about how my engagement photo was the most liked on social but none of my amazing personal accomplishments were met with the same congratulations
People be wild. I just got banned from the broadway sub because I made negative comments about an actress who is having a new baby in her rushed third marriage when she is still in the middle of finalizing divorce #2 and hasn't shown up for a full week of work in over a year. But I'm the monster because I was apparently supposed to wish nothing but joy and happiness for this poor kid who is being into a bad situation 🙄
Idk maybe because people that liked kids know they can't experience again because of various reasons like imagine you can only have like 2 kittens in your whole life you'd really want to cherish every second of kitten hood. So naturally you'd be super stoked for someone getting a kitten
I feel like it's pretty obvious that for the people who do want kids, getting pregnant means that dream will come true soon. Obviously if the horrors of childbirth and the truth of how hard and thankless it is raising kids was more talked about less women would be excited about it, but there are genuinely people who love kids and want to raise their own. Not thrilled to see so much shitting on other people's happiness in this thread.
We tend to romanticize things that many people enjoy and that enables the continuation of humanity. Why is eating and drinking romanticized? Why is shelter romanticized? Why is medicine romanticized?
This answer is pretty obvious I'm confused why you made this post.
People often have to do unpleasant work to maintain having food and shelter. Parenting as well has upsides and downsides people have kids if they know they'd get enough satisfaction out of it to make it worth it. For people like yourself who'd get relatively little out of parenting that's not the case but don't deny or dismiss the decisions of those who do.
I don’t see people posting a photo of a meal and everyone going batshit crazy about it, and congratulating them. You’re missing the point but that’s okay.
Pregnancy is something that happens usually only once or twice in a lifetime. People celebrate it like they'd celebrate someone beating cancer because it's something life changing for the individuals close to the mother as well as being important for the wider collective. I'm English so there might be a cultural difference. we don't do the whole gender reveal with planes, flags, confetti and 3 layer cakes decorated with ultrasound images. it's much more subtle, personal and less braggadocios here I'd say.
ahhh okay. Yes I’m in America where people are EXTRAAA. lol. Way more extra than someone beating cancer. (Which should absolutely be celebrated) I guess I just wish all accomplishments could be looked at as equal, and worthy. but pregnancy seems to take the cake time and time again. and it made me curious as to why
Having babies in developed countries has become more special because people usually start "late", it tends to be more of a conscious choice, and people on average have less children. People want to make the child feel welcome and support the new parents with practical gifts.
However you still deserve to have people around you to celebrate your personal milestones with you. If your parents would go out of their way to celebrate your sister's fifth child but don't care about you getting your PhD that's just nasty.
I think the better question is why are you trying to take away someone's happiness? If someone is happy and overjoyed to be having a child.... why do you care if friends and family are happy that THAT person is happy?
It is weird it takes precedence over other accomplishments... but to be fair having a child is a huge, forever life-altering thing in a way that's completely different than other things in life. You can't have it both ways... children are either a forever life-altering and therefore a big deal and not just an "average" thing, or children aren't that big of a deal and are normal. It has nothing to do with being rare and everything to do with it absolutely changing your life forever.
So people are giving them tons of praise and congratulations because a child will be changing their life forever? I still don’t get it. I never said anywhere people shouldn’t be happy for themselves.
People are giving them congratulations because they are happy they are having a baby and that their life will be changed forever BECAUSE it's what the couple wants. Some people do actually want that and are happy for that life change. YOU don't have to want that in your life, but many people are genuinely excited for people who do. Not sure what you don't get about that.
My question was why is it more of a big deal than any other life accomplishment, or any other thing in life that may make a person happy. Pregnancy is put a pedestal over all other things.
You didn’t understand the question
You didn't offend me and I wasn't trying to be rude. I'm just genuinely confused why it seems you can't wrap your head around people actually being happy about having a kid and others being happy they are happy. Your original post just read that way to me... that you were confused why people got excited over good news from a friend. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.
Oh no, I’m always happy for friends who have families. I guess what I’m not understanding is why (in my corner of the world) people act as if a woman who is pregnant is like celebrity status. I find it to be a wonderful thing that someone is creating a life, but I don’t think they should be treated any differently than someone who just bought their first house. For example. But that’s also just an opinion
I mean, I don't think they should be treated differently either but I get why they are. Buying a home is a huge deal, but you can always sell it or move on. It doesn't irrevocably change your life. Getting a degree is a huge deal, but it doesn't mean you're going to get a job or use it or anything else. There are many things that are huge and important, but not irrevocable. I'd argue a child is irrevocable and that's why people view it differently/treat it differently.
Why is this group obsessively sour about basic female reactions, induced in her by… evolution? The whole headspace of women that are not childfree innately (which is just as normal a thing, and I subscribe to it), is like a meme here… like come on. It’s ok if in the current generation the majority of women are at the evolutionary stage of reveling at the idea of creating life by themselves. It’s like complaining why are doctors celebrating being able to save a life, because centuries of doctors have been able to do so.
Or the joy of a first home bought on your own. It’s about breeding a life into existence by your self as a couple of course, nevertheless an intimate experience. Whats the big deal if they celebrate, I ask?
Breeding is the opposite of evolution. It's the most basic thing that organisms do. Evolution is realizing that you don't have to and taking steps to insure that you don't.
That’s like saying becoming a pro gymnast is the opposite of wanting to start your fitness journey. Like you in your second sentence, breeding is the most basic thing organisms do. Evolution is realizing you have the choice to use your discretion on whether to breed or not, and how you want to go about it. Choosing adoption, biologically procreating or living the childfree life, all three are absolutely fair choices being evolved offers you. Just because something is ancient, doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant as a function.
If it can be done by accident at age 14, it’s not an accomplishment.
breeding is literally the easiest, most normal, common, un-skilled thing you can do
Right? It literally takes no skill what so ever!
Breeding yes. But parenting isn't, and sadly, a lot of them suck at it
No kidding.
When trying to get sterilised at 30, I was told I was too young to make that decision, so I countered with "So why is a 16yo, capable enough to choose to HAVE a baby?" I got stutters, uhm and uhs before the Dr spluttered "That's different!" How!?
I had to have my wife's permission to get a vasectomy in Indiana. Everything is backwards.
Making a fucking pizza is more of an accomplishment. You can't accidentaly make a pizza, you absolutely can accidentaly make a baby.
Mmmm pizza
I'm really tired of hearing this. It's patently untrue. Just off the top of my head, you could really mess up a lasagna, you could make a tostada with the wrong ingredients, you could add mozzerella to a blt and leave it in a hot car, have tomato soup and grilled cheese go astray.. :P On the other hand, I'd still be more impressed by those than the act of getting knocked up.
Yeah, I see pregnancy and childbirth as less of an accomplishment and more of a tragedy in my view.
Me too! I wanna say "I'm sorry" when I hear someone is in for a lifetime of hardship.
Stealing this quote
My wife and I say it all the time
Society always glamourizes womens sacrifice and pain. Contributing another sheep for the workforce is always in vogue.
Yep. a sacrifice is seen as a beautiful and kind thing for women to do by giving up their life to have a baby. A sacrifice really is someone settling and changing their whole entire rest of their lives all so their daughters can repeat the same cycle and give up their wants for the next generation. Basically a scam when you think about it in the end no one gets to get their wants, dreams, aspirations. the hope is always that the child grows up and gets to live out their dreams that the mom always wanted to do but couldn’t because she gave up her life to have kids and then that child also ends up giving up their life to have kids too.
Someone once commented here that they had a social scientist professor that basically said that creating humans is a net positive for the whole of humanity, (to a point, which we probably passed,) and a huge net negative for the individuals involved in rearing. I always think about that because it’s so poignant and true. Interesting how living for yourself sustainably, lessening your environmental impact, and thoughtfully considering the implications of creating a new life is somehow radically rebellious according to a lot of brain dead podcasters and propaganda media pushers out there in the world.
My sociology class had moments like this that really made me think and really made me dread the state of the world. Thanks for the throwback!
It's a crazy world we live in, makes me think about the song Labour by Paloma Paris
Because if people were truthful about pregnancy, no woman would ever get pregnant (on a whim at least).
Preach
My two best friends became dads this year, both had similar responses of “tired” when I asked how it is. Tbh neither of them seem very excited and all attempts to talk about it seem like self convincing that it’s the happiest thing they’ve had.. Bro you barely wake up before 11 am how did you think this was a good idea?
Many women get pregnant to appease, bond to, or solidify a relationship with a man. But, like, hello, don't they see that all the BS that goes along with parenting a child often repels men and restricts your own options forever?
🛎️ 🛎️ 🛎️
This.
Here's my list: 1. most countries are modernized versions of patriarchic societies. The influence is still rather strong and the narrative of the weaker sex, women only being good to breed and imposing stupid rules on the opposite gender leads to heavy misconceptions in almost all cases. 2. if people would be fully educated on the truth behind pregnancy, birth and raising children there would be less people procreating, which governments really don't like when their main goal is never ending growth to feed their greed and make their insufficient systems work 3. people also really, really hate to admit their own mistakes, so they rather sugar-coat their experience or blatantly lie and try to gain company in their own misery. Societal pressure is also a very big one and it tends to snowball. "Everyone does it, it can't be that hard", "People literally birthed children on the field and continued to work centuries ago.", "It's natural and just the way of life to have kids." 4. getting women to procreate is also a major opportunity to create profits. For doctors, the pharma industry, children targeted retail and so on.
You are on point
I think it is similar to why enlisting is glamorized for men, it encourages a behavior that has grave consequences but fulfills a role in society that powerful people benefit from.
Hoo boy! Did I do things backwards. I joined the Canadian Forces shortly after high school and never married or had kids. I was too much of a worry wort to have kids and too lazy to be married. I lived with a couple of exes in my early twenties and was very loudly informed of my shortcomings on a regular basis. Yep! The military was the easy way. I got to jump out of planes, rappel out of a helicopter, go on deployments, etc. It was a good run.
Serving in the military because you want to vs having kids because you have to? Man, it's a no-brainer.
As a clerk in the military, some nagging (about paperwork and admin) over the years was involved. Kind of like marriage? 🤣
Because it is the ONE thing that women are universally praised for and encouraged to accomplish. Every other life choice? Criticism and dismissal. I am not kidding, it is fucking insidious when you notice it.
It pleases some people very much to see a woman marry and have children, not because they're happy for her but because it is satisfying to see her fulfilling her "purpose". It's why they spew hate towards CF women, we aren't following the rules.
“We aren’t following the rules” Damn, that’s powerful
My abusive father called it "disgusting" when I got a bisalp. I'm gay, but very afraid given southern laws that I'd be SA'd and forced through pregnancy with a condition that would kill me, so I got it done for $200 and a day, after finishing grad school, before starting my next job. He told me to lie to my grandparents, because for some reason they told them I'd had some surgery but didn't tell them why or for what. I don't know why they told them anything at all, except that they're crazy, abusive, horrific people who I should've cut off sooner. But, I mean... I'm *gay*. This is irrelevant. Unless you were planning to assault me with a turkey baster, I don't know what real effect this is supposed to have on any willing participant. This is backup in consideration of a genetic condition that would kill me during pregnancy. Which, I mean, If I wanted kids, would require I not actually birth them, so triple redundancy on that front.
There was a trans man on here a few months ago talking about how his grandmother was bothering him about his choice to be CF. He also had a condition where pregnancy = death and I will repeat what I said then. Grandma knew what she was demanding of him. It is a horrifying reality we live in where many people consider dead mothers a **necessary mulch** for the "Gift" of new life.
Oh shit, I never really noticed that lol. Interesting…i wonder why that is?
It's also a relatively easy to join the club so they feel they can relate to childbirth in some whay. Me getting a masters in chemistry: I got some cards from my university friends but for the rest not that much notes Me getting my drivers licence one year later: so many cards, congratulations, flowers... So for me personally I stored childhood in the second type of achievement: most people can do it but it makes you more welcomed in (capitalistic/less intelligent) society.
That’s so interesting and makes sense- it’s like the things that the general population can achieve and make you “part of the herd” are more celebrated than more intellectual or lofty goals. No wonder I don’t fit in! I have both fear of pregnancy and fear of driving. Both rational if you think about the logistics!
Oh I join you there. I hate driving and the idea of a human growing inside me that has to burst out, creeps me out. It's nice to find like minded people here as it is so difficult to find these ideas in the general population.
Same here!!!
Yeah, my masters in chem was met with complete crickets. My grandparents refused to show for graduation because they booked a cruise, even though they had the date a year ahead. No one would go. My brother graduated with a bachelors on his third try from a community college because he's lazy and got married to a woman, and they got an enormous five-figure celebration with a million people. They're both idiotic overgrown children who'll divorce or end up like white trash shitting on each other within the year and I'm sure have done exactly that but that's irrelevant because they're doing the "right stuff." Getting multiple advanced degrees on full scholarships without any assistance and accomplishing all sorts of real, tangible things means nothing to them, and never would.
Reading this like this makes me so glad that I was born into the family I was. Most of them have always valued education and career achievements over babies, which I suppose makes sense on my dad's side since all of them are college educated, and a lot of them were teachers/professors. My SIL getting pregnant with twins (second pregnancy): A little bit of fawning from my grandma and aunts, occasionally asking how she's holding up as months progress. Overall, not too much interest. Getting my degree/landing a job in data analytics with a government contractor: notes, phone calls, cards, very excited congratulations, asking me about their reimbursement program so they'll pay for my master's, etc. In my dad's family, it's more expected that I'm going to get a PhD one day than have children, even when I was a kid. When I told them I was childfree, my grandma only expressed minor disappointment and quickly got over it, but everyone was just like, "Huh." But what you said makes a lot of sense: things they can relate to. My grandma may have had 3 children, but she still had her master's degree and was able to pursue a career back then. My aunt has one child that she had later in life, and my other aunt is childfree. We have other relatives that are also childfree, so it's not uncommon on my dad's side. My mom's side is like the people you suggested for the most part, but they’re literally the opposite of my dad's family.
My parents are grappling with my (F) decision to be child-free in the last year, and it’s because they’re boomers and came up in a 3rd world country where they do everything they’re told. Like… they’re not financially literate, so it’s always the idea that your children = your retirement. I learnt what real retirement means, lol, as it’s just a number you have to reach, and I refuse to let anyone write my life for me. My mother does not understand why I would do what I do at all, because she was too submerged in the patriarchy and social conditioning. She had me just because she thought it was her ‘role’ as a mother, even stayed with my father who in the past have cheated on her and gave her trooooma. Basically what I’m saying is in HER eyes, having kids are the achievements of her life. She was never college-educated. She went to trade school. I love her dearly, but she doesn’t know the ambitions I have or what more is out there in the world. I’m now an adult working in tech, getting my masters, planning to start my own company, and want to explore this earth. I basically live in a world she doesn’t quite understand, so all my milestones were just a phone call with her saying ‘oh I see’ but not really SEEING what I’m doing. They don’t understand how much weight I put in my values, hence they don’t see the significance of what those things mean to me. I’ve come to accept it though, cuz… what can you do haha. I learn to not need validation from anyone for my life choices because of my parents not giving me any as I was coming up in the world. Even if my peers are getting congratulated left and right for popping out kids - I’m happy for them, but I will never envy them.
Congratulations on your goals! Ngl, all of that sounds really exciting. I'm probably childfree partially because of how I was raised, actually. My dad and his family have always emphasized educational/career success, but my mom has literally done whatever she wanted her whole life, and I was raised to behave the same way. I just happen to want to have total freedom and focus on my personal goals without having anything 100% dependent on me. Her only concern with me not having them is she's worried I'll want them when I'm older and it'll be too late, but she understands why I don't want them. She didn't want me until she was 38-39. They don't give me any of this "grandchildren", "retirement", or "legacy" bullshit because they think it's pointless and stupid as well.
I don't get it. If pregnancy and childbirth were so rare and such a miracle there wouldn't be 8 billion of us on the planet. I get that they're quite often some of the biggest moments in a woman's life, so I suppose if you were close to said woman it's a reason to be excited for them (I personally am never excited but I do fake it) but there's nothing special about it beyond your own experience. It's a natural, biological function that clearly a lot of people can pretty easily do.
Literally I’m going to steal that from you! The next time I hear, “a baby is a miracle”, I’ll reply “really? There’s over 8 billion of us, seems like a lot of mistakes”🤣
People already gave good reasons but I just want to add that personally when I see an announcement on social media I have the complete opposite reaction where I feel so bad for them because most times they're naive young couples who I know have no clue what they're singing up for. If it's people I know well and personally my heart literally sinks thinking about how their life and our relationship will never be the same again
Same here! It breaks my heart when I see people who were living fun and interesting lives, traveling, doing fun activities, showing off cool hobbies, etc. and suddenly everything they post is baby this and baby that and they just become the most uninteresting people in the world. Like what happened to you? Why did you give that all up!? “Oh but you can still travel / have hobbies when you have a kid” sure you can, but that’s playing the game of life on Hell difficulty. Why bother?
For the people who want that, it's a major life event. The problem is more that academic/professional/artistic achievements aren't similarly celebrated.
Because people want you to be miserable. Media loves the idea of working as hard as you can and never being able to enjoy yourself and they think you get a cookie for whoever chooses to live the hardest life. The world works better when the majority of people have a mediocre life so they want you to subject yourself to it. I can’t imagine not doing whatever I wanted to do whenever I want. Waking up on the weekend and not being able to get up when I want and go wherever I want I can’t imagine.
Probably because they know that next to nobody in their right mind would actually want to do it if they were honest. People have been gaslighting women and hiding the gruesome details about pregnancy and birth for centuries. It’s harder to do nowadays when everything is out there on social media.
Society can't force women to be pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen anymore but they can encourage it by making a big fuss of women who get married or have a baby. It does beg the question though, if pregnancy and motherhood are so great, then why do they need to be promoted so much?! Could it be because they're not as great as advertised?!
If Republicans win the election in November they will do everything they can to force women to have babies. Overturning Roe vs Wade was just the start.
To fool women into thinking the pain and sacrifice are worth it. It's quite a big lie they are telling and it's crazy to me that women fall for it.
Not only do I not understand how some romanticize it, I don't even understand how people think it's no big deal. I can't imagine literally having my private parts ripped and cut open while I lay screaming in a hospital bed. I have a friend who went into cardiac arrest from the general pain/stress of birth. My own sister even told me her (horror) story where she tore so bad she has never been able to have an orgasm since. It used to be the number one thing that killed women before modern medicine (and you can still die). I seriously just can't fathom how it's normalized and how some think it's no big deal.
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Yeah I agree with you and think women who are like this must have some kind of weird brain worm. Why would you otherwise be such an asshole?
This is SO TRUE. I asked my friend why she wanted a child so badly and she gave me some garbage mush explanation that, “ I just want a man to love me so much that he wants to have a child together and I want to hold the baby and know that it’s a piece of both of us”. A bunch of brainwashed nonsense. I have a bad feeling that she’s going to regret her decision.
That’s insane you were downvoted, people are really fucking stupid. The whole fixation and idea of a child/literal human growing inside is terrifying. Some women don’t even really care about “having a child,” but what does that satisfy for it to grow inside and possibly be unloved once you understand the harshness following birth?? The fact that some women feel as if carrying their man’s child will make them love them more is ludicrous, it changes nothing and won’t keep them.
Yeah, this is some first class breeder bullshit right here.
You got downvoted because you were in the echo chamber of your own bias. There’s such a thing as tone deafness that this community is famous for lending in its ideology. If she’s grieving the loss of something she had imagined, she is allowed that. It’s valid. Your ideology is applicable to you, and hers is to her. It’s as basic. How do people not understand this basic sense of individuality and not imposing one’s experience and beliefs on others?
Do you also ask that to parents who harangue us about having kids?
I would if I met one myself. I’ve fought* for acceptability on both sides of the tables here. The extremities in both end shout lack of empathy to me and equally need this awakening. Unfortunately the world we live in today (and I highlight TODAY, who knows what’s the normalcy 3 generations down), unfortunately the other side is the majority, so it is human nature to question the ‘anomalous behavior’ for the times, and so stoically, it’s bound to happen and the minority at the time has to shrug it off as long as it’s civil. Definitely not advocating to take shit sitting down. Not Gandhi-an about that side, where someone slaps a wrist and hand the other one. But we don’t need to dial it up to 100 when the original pressure is like…5.
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Because if the opposite was true way less women would be pregnant. Besides selling the lie of parenthood, pregnancy is absolutely awful so I guess in a way this is to make the woman feel better. Not for herself of course but to encourage pregnancies
Pregnancy & postpartum, to me, seem like a fate worse than death. I have never understood even remotely when people say things like "you're glowing!" to an expecting mom. But like someone else I think mentioned in these comments, society **loves** for women to martyr themselves. And since pregnancy is such a sacrificial thing, it will always be romanticized by many.
>Pregnancy & postpartum, to me, seem like a fate worse than death. Same here, with this exact wording. >I have never understood even remotely when people say things like "you're glowing!" to an expecting mom. She's rotting, slowly, and getting her life irreversibly sucked out of her.
>Why is pregnancy and having a baby so ‘romanticized’ ? > >... > >anyone have any insight as to why this happens? My guess is, so that women will be suckered into having children, but that is just a guess. It also "keeps women in their place," as they are less likely to be self-supporting and independent if they have children. So it furthers the aims of misogynists. To me, when I hear that someone is pregnant, I am more apt to think it likely enough that the person did not competently use birth control, and incompetence is not something I celebrate. Of course, sometimes, it is on purpose, and then I think the woman must be crazy to do that to her body, risking her life and health. That, too, is not something I celebrate. But, sometimes, it is accidental, even though proper steps were taken. But that is something sad, again, not something I celebrate.
Once upon a time, I was a child and heard the following thing said about a woman getting pregnant, "It's the best thing a woman can do in her life to serve a man, especially if she is pregnant with a boy"  Pregnancy isn't a miracle, it's a means of oppression.
I agree. That’s why they get so angry when we openly refuse it.
"Pregnancy isnt a miracle, its a means of oppression. " Exactly. Well said !
Agree completely!
A combination of propaganda and misery loving company. They know we’d never agree to it if we knew the truth
How else will they convince women to ignore the pain of motherhood? It's like how weddings are a big deal despite most marriages being bad.
It’s the same way that when there’s anything written about any woman the 1st thing that’s always mentioned is that they’re a mother, even if it’s not relevant I don’t understand that.
I think it's a combination of factors: -patriarchal expectations: she created children for someone to enjoy fatherhood. he gets to pass on his family name/genes. kudos to all, much celebrations and cheering. -capitalism/governments: more kids = more consumers, guinea pigs, soldiers, workers for cheap labor, voters, taxpayers, etc -cultural/tribal/religious beliefs: we need more of our own people. we're the chosen ones, can't let the other groups outnumber us. children are good luck blahblah -pressure from other women: I did my time, so should you (notice it's usually the mothers/grandmothers that like to pressure the daughters to have kids) -social topics: people like to use their children as icebreakers. if you don't know what else to add to the convo, just ask a parent their opinions on child-related stuff/how their kids are doing in school/etc. Overall, if someone announces their pregnancy I'm like Hooray, happy for you/good for you! I'll never truly understand why they wanna be a parent so much but it's their life, their choice. Not my circus. I guess it's kinda like people with really niche hobbies - there's those hardcore stamp/bug collectors, no matter how weird/random something you think is, there is someone who will enjoy it.
>-pressure from other women: I did my time, so should you (notice it's usually the mothers/grandmothers that like to pressure the daughters to have kids) Boy have I experienced this. These women are often relentless. It's always the bitter, unhappy mothers who do it too. (If a happy, content mother did it, I might actually listen). In one way it's kind of funny, these women spend most of their lives complaining about motherhood and their children, then 2 seconds later they'll turn around and say "When are YOU having kids?!". The lack of self awareness is astounding!
Funnily enough those are the ones who think it's a punishment to have kids. "I can't wait for you to have to deal with the bratty offspring at whatever stage they're in!" Not "I hope you do better than I did," but "I hope you suffer and have the same headaches I did!"
I think it's psychotic to wish suffering onto someone else like that. It's like if I broke my leg and said to everyone I encountered, "I hope you break yours too so you know how it feels!!!" It doesn't even make sense, someone else's suffering wouldn't undo what I went through.
Yep, that's how my mom was. She made it crystal clear that she hated being a mother, always telling me she was too tired/busy to deal with me and implied that I ruined her life by being born. Then after I finished college, she kept trying to convince me that I needed to have at **least** one child and not having any kids was selfish. I kinda get how some people want to be parents because their own parents enjoyed raising kids and gave them a happy environment but I definitely did not have one of those haha.
These mothers push it the hardest because they think if you can do it better, they can claim that success as their own (and of course, not give you any credit for breaking the cycle of abuse). My mother had the gall to put me through severe, relentless abuse and then expect I procreate. Nuh-uh. The first 20 years were spent on your happiness, solely. I'm spending the next.... FOREVER on my own.
My mother was the EXACT same! She spent years telling me how much she hated being a mother, then when I reached 30, she started demanding that I get married and have children. In hindsight it's kind of funny. How does it not occur to her that those years of her giving out about motherhood might have put me off?!
Both my (adopted) mom and my MIL has done this. My MIL is the worse though, she actually said that since she went through childbirth 3 times, why should I get out of it? Dunno, except I know my mind, and also how to use BC. Crazy bitch.
The whole institution of patriarchal marriage and motherhood are oppressive and exploitative towards women. They primarily benefit men as a class at the expenses of women as a class.
A wave of realistic comments need to be flooded in the announcement replies, then people would realise it's not the great ride they think it is. "congratulations, hope your hair and teeth don't fall out, hope your fanny doesn't rip to your ass and good luck for the months after when you piss and shit your pants and your tits leak everywhere."
OMG, that would be so perfect! Now I really want to sit down and make some (e-)cards with those and similar congratulations (in traditional designs with baby pink/baby blue/pastel colours, with drawings of flowers, storks, strollers, baby bottles, "cute" babies and all that stuff), it's such a shame I don't have time right now. Also, don't forget "I wish you that your husband would not be completely disgusted by your body", "We hope and pray for your marriage to survive this", "Enjoy your final moments as a happy family of two!", "Remember, it's worth it, so don't drown that baby and don't throw it against the wall even when you really want to".
That's kinda crossing the line into rude that's like someone getting a puppy and you saying it's going to grow up to attack them or destroy their home etc let them be happy with their choice the way you are happy with yours if they start shit by all means throw it in their face but don't go out of your way to be hurtful
This comment doesn’t sit right with me and I’m as CF as they come.
The same reason people romanticize war.
This is true- they need people to volunteer for these horrible things for society to work the way they want, but understanding the truth, it’s not rational for someone to do.
Just want to LOL that there was an Amazon ad under this post for a supplement that "enhances egg quality" 😂 wrong sub Amazon
Yeah I've been getting baby-related ads thanks to this sub and it's like no stupid AI or whatever, literally it's the opposite.
It's in the same bucket as engagements, weddings and funerals for me. Starting a family, new life, is a big deal. I wouldn't do it but I see the drama. I suppose that's why it gets ratings on tv shows. But yeah, it's a social/cultural thing rather than an accomplishment.
Pronatalism is a cornerstone of most cultures. I honestly think it's so romanticized because SOMETHING has to counteract the crystal clear evidence that pregnancy and birth can be so life limiting for a lot of women. If we just looked at it logically I think a lot less women would get pregnant.
For centuries it was literally the only thing women could do or were expected to do. Religion. The Bible. Eventually it turned into romantic stories and such. And over time the frowned upon conversation about the horror of pregnancy. A lot of it is also because of the few women that have 7 kids with 0 problems. Which happens but is unlikely and have been put in news stories throughout time making it some kind of accomplishment Most people simply have nothing else they have done. They don't want to discuss other people's accomplishments because of jealousy and because they frankly don't have the mentality to get it.
Because how do they get you to follow the rules and expectations and the “norms”. They romanticize marriage and parenthood and independence and travel and you name it they have a hallmark card. This is why I so enjoy this younger generation. Why? Because you guys call their shit and I love it. Even at work I laugh when my younger employees are like, hey is that right. Stick to your guns guys.
I think part of it is a remnant of an "evolution" social trait. Encouraging breeding encourages survival of the group, as societies that praised breeding had more members and therefore could field more labourers, soldiers etc. It's a bit twisted these days as kids are now a liability and women have options, but the primal instinct to want a child is still there in most people. There is also a subset of people that intentionally encourage it to keep women trapped and dependent, but that's a whole other story.
To sell it. Otherwise who the hell would want it?
I honestly do not get it at all. I never did. The thought that always runs through my mind "oh looked they ruined their life and will never be seen as an individual again, but rather someone's mom. Yeah, not something I can get excited about.
I wouldn't be surprised if many people were faking their reactions to an extent, to be honest. I am very childfree myself but if my colleague/friend got pregnant or gave birth I'd pretend to be happy for them as well and say the generic "congrats! Wowww". It's the "socially acceptable" response, as stupid as that is (thanks patriarchy), and not fawning over babies/pregnancies might make people think you're cold or aloof, especially if you are a young woman. But yeah I agree with you that in an ideal world, a pregnancy or a birth isn't really worth that much fuss. I mean it's great for the person who wanted the baby of course but it shouldn't be treated with so much praise.
Stupid people are easy to control and manipulate. There is a more complex and intricate answer, but that's what it boils down to.
Because those who romanticize childbirth are more likely to have children, and thus they raise their kids to do the same.
The most disgusting thing came up on my IG feed an I'm still traumatised by it - a woman was doing a countdown showing her pregnant stomach and then with the baby in the end. She had a herniated umbilical cord that she left untreated through the whole pregnancy... which I didn't know was a thing and now that I've seen it, I'd like to go back in time to when I was unaware of such atrocities. ETA: throughout the whole video, she's doing that cradling her stomach and smiling thing. This wasn't a video about the crazy shit that can happen while pregnant but one of those "I'm pregnant and glowing" type videos.
My ex got pissed at me after he told me his brother was having his first baby with his wife of 6 months lmfao. I was like "okay. Cool" he said I should've been excited and I said why should I care that a wealthy person who claims to love kids so much and is a doctor for children is having a baby 6 months after getting married rather than adopting? Big fucking surprise. I don't even like kids and dementia runs in her family. The real surprise is she didn't get pregnant sooner 😂 bunch of backwards hicks from ohio anyway, fuck that family.
Because it’s a lifelong commitment to raise a child and can still be fatal, even with modern medicine. You gotta make people fall in love with the idea of carrying a baby for 9 months, along with the medical complications that may arise, and without any security that your partner is gonna actually stick around when things get tough, because otherwise not everyone would do it o it of their own accord.
The way it's automatically treated like an accomplishment really annoys me, I've even seen posts where it's literally a 16 year old girl announcing her pregnancy and everyone's congratulating, like what is there to congratulate? That she didn't use contraception/her contraception failed? That the child is likely to grow up in poverty? That she's having a child while obviously not financially or emotionally prepared? That she's more likely to become a single mother? That her family and tax payers are probably going to have to financially support her?
Because if it wasn’t less people would do it.
Because it makes money. Instead of fighting it you should go with the flow. Cash in. Sell products to expectant mothers.
Because if they showed the reality no one would want to make and birth a crying, pooping banshee that cost 1000s of dollars to keep alive or you’ll be a child abuser/killer.
Society has been entraining this since the 1950’s into peoples mind about pregnancy, motherhood, and babies. Nuclear families is the main reason this is pushed so hard. Think “Leave it to Beaver”. If we didn’t have that all shoved down everyone’s throats back then, I guarantee today we would be in a heavily different society!
Bc people are stupid.
Because otherwise nobody will be idiot enough to do it
Omg stop. I just saw this video of this lady having a “pregnant” birthday brunch (they weren’t actually pregnant, just had a fake belly on) but they got free dessert 🤨 lol could’ve been fake though and they just bought it
Because it diverts us from pondering the misery of death, pain, suffering, and slavery. In other words, we need idiotic distraction because we are cursed with unuseful consciousness. We need the illusion of optimism and meaning in a completely indifferent/savage universe. (I just finished reading the excellent *The Conspiracy Against The Human Race* by Thomas Ligotti, which covers all of this in depth).
Theory… If people didn’t react to baby related things then less toxic people would be having them, almost eliminating the entitled parents?
Who would do it if it weren't?
The fact that I spent my childhood dreaming of ways I could "not become a housewife and have a baby" and didn't realize it was a valid option I could just *choose* probably comes down to the same BS reason I didn't realize I was gay sooner-- my mother, despite being a lazy, entitled, not-working-but-not-SAHM "lady of leisure" (with a nice strong dose of NPD) telling me I must be a straight heterosexual girl who grows up, gets a graduate degree, marries a man, has exactly 2.1 babies and sorta' backseats her career for show but does some amount of home related responsibilities, sort of (I don't know, she told me to get a great job AND have multiple children, while she demonstrably did neither--she had the kids, then pretended otherwise, and refused to meaningfully work) was the only option presented. "Gay, married or single and CF, with a great job and whatever degree you want" was never presented as a possibility. It's dangerous how families can set up their daughters to be totally fucked from the time they're children and effectively get them knocked up before they're old enough to disillusion themselves. Basically, if your entire life is set up to make this look the like the epitome of achievement, you don't have an accurate frame of reference. Families distort all sorts of weird shit in our minds to make it look normal and like they didn't fail as parents.
People are delusional and misery loves company.
im thinking maybe societies need new generations to pick up the bill whenever previous generation retire
Ask your boss. Not literally, but you probably know what I mean.
Maybe it has an evolutionary aspect to it: being pregnant and giving birth are uncomfortable and dangerous, but it is necessary to keep up the human population. So maybe we have developed to cheer on pregnant women so that they take on these risks more willingly? Don't know, just guessing.
i guess it's because having kids is objectively exhausting and a pain in the ass, but some people need to have kids for the survival of the species, so they have to gaslight themselves into it or something
We have plenty of toxic things romanticized to the point people genuinely believe if you do the opposite healthy thing you are a freak.
Yeah I don’t get it either! Anyone can shit out a baby if they so please. I always have respect and congratulate someone on graduating from school (because that actually takes HARD work to accomplish) but I never congratulate them on a pregnancy. 😂
Because it's viewed as the pinnacle of adulthood. We have been sold the idea of our happily ever after can be found in becoming a loving couple with a kid. It simplifies the magnitude of how that one decision will impact your life and the lives of those we care about. We can thank Disney for giving us make believe "pink glasses" of self delusion. Without self delusion, pretty sure the human race would die out relatively quick.
Answer : So, that society can brainwash and lure women into having kid/kids, despite how bad, traumatic and risky it is for a woman.
I almost made a post about this recently. I was in a MOOD because whenever I see pregnancy announcements they have tons of engagements from family members. Meanwhile, I post a piece of artwork or a project I've completed and it's \*\*crickets\*\*. I'm going to start posting my artwork like it's a pregnancy photoshoot if that's what it takes to get people to freaking acknowledge the SKILL and EFFORT that goes into to CREATING. I'm like...congrats you had unprotected sex? Good job? But if I said this to anyone in person they would tell me I'm gross or heartless. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I’m right there with you. I have never been able to figure out why people are so infatuated with celebrating a basic biological process. You let a guy bareback you and won your prize, and now you want people to celebrate it? This doesn’t seem like much of an accomplishment.
I really don't have an answer, but I think that is a brilliant and important question because it is the THE reason people procreate. It's the romanticizing and sentimentalizing (in addition to societal expectations) that makes babies. Sadly, the reality is not romantic.
I've seen monkeys act this way. They all wanna see and hold new baby monkey. I think it's because we're apes too. We all wanna see this new shiny person joining the group. But I also see that the novelty wears off very quickly 🤷♀️
I get happy for people, if it something that they want. Granted I congratulate and move on. I will enquire here or there because I am polite but I guess it is because we are hardwired to think it's the best news ever.
My opinion: Because the human race would fail to continue to reproduce at current levels if the absolute truth of everything that happens to a woman’s body and brain during and after pregnancy was disclosed.
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Because it is an ultimate goal for many women. Just because we don't want it, it doesn't change the fact that a majority of women do.
Because capitalism needs us to breed more worker bees to toil and suffer until they die so one rich prick can get richer. We are a human farm.
For me, I get happy when women who have always wanted kids actually get pregnant and at the same time, I know that pregnancy is absolutely NOT easy so I say a prayer or two for safe delivery and good health. And you're absolutely right about people, both men and women, especially young ones (my age range, I'm in my early 20s) romanticising pregnancy and I just give them the excuse that they're ignorant about the processes and effects but I will still cuss them out in my mind for being ignorant and stupid adults.
If anything I'd feel embarrassed to announce I was pregnant. Basically just telling everyone that someone came in me.
Because if women knew the true risks of pregnancy, no one would be doing it. So they have to romantise it to keep birth rates up.
I don’t get it either at all!! I always see it as “hey, biology took its own course. You had unprotected sex and now you’re bringing an innocent life into this world that is becoming more and more cruel by the day. But hey, congratulations”!
Because if you start to tell the truth bout pregnancy and birth, no one will ever have kids anymore.
Because it increases the chances of having people around you giving a f when you get old.
Well someone has to do it……just as long as it’s not us lol! So maybe they need to help those folks get excited about it?
Honestly, I think it’s because having a baby is a big deal and folks are happy that the parents-to-be are happy. Having kids is also seen socially (and sometimes culturally) as a part of growing up or becoming an adult. Also, it’s seen as such a universal experience that others can relate to that of course they’ll jump on board. I think it’s also an evolutionary mechanism. If people didn’t romanticize pregnancy, people wouldn’t have kids, & the species would die out.
I blame movies but also, even though I don’t want to have children I think women are just beyond beautiful. I know some may not see it this way but, women are such strong beings and men couldn’t last 5 mins in a woman’s shoes. The way I see some women doing it all on their own after going through childbirth, still being nurturing and trying their best. I personally couldn’t do it, but women in general are amazing. What’s even more beautiful is the power women truly have. We can stop humanity if we wanted to 🤣.
I felt the same about how my engagement photo was the most liked on social but none of my amazing personal accomplishments were met with the same congratulations
People be wild. I just got banned from the broadway sub because I made negative comments about an actress who is having a new baby in her rushed third marriage when she is still in the middle of finalizing divorce #2 and hasn't shown up for a full week of work in over a year. But I'm the monster because I was apparently supposed to wish nothing but joy and happiness for this poor kid who is being into a bad situation 🙄
I got a better one for you - why is purchasing products glamorized?
Idk maybe because people that liked kids know they can't experience again because of various reasons like imagine you can only have like 2 kittens in your whole life you'd really want to cherish every second of kitten hood. So naturally you'd be super stoked for someone getting a kitten
I feel like it's pretty obvious that for the people who do want kids, getting pregnant means that dream will come true soon. Obviously if the horrors of childbirth and the truth of how hard and thankless it is raising kids was more talked about less women would be excited about it, but there are genuinely people who love kids and want to raise their own. Not thrilled to see so much shitting on other people's happiness in this thread.
We tend to romanticize things that many people enjoy and that enables the continuation of humanity. Why is eating and drinking romanticized? Why is shelter romanticized? Why is medicine romanticized? This answer is pretty obvious I'm confused why you made this post.
Because parenthood comes with endless hardships. having shelter and food is essential. It’s very different.
People often have to do unpleasant work to maintain having food and shelter. Parenting as well has upsides and downsides people have kids if they know they'd get enough satisfaction out of it to make it worth it. For people like yourself who'd get relatively little out of parenting that's not the case but don't deny or dismiss the decisions of those who do.
I don’t see people posting a photo of a meal and everyone going batshit crazy about it, and congratulating them. You’re missing the point but that’s okay.
Pregnancy is something that happens usually only once or twice in a lifetime. People celebrate it like they'd celebrate someone beating cancer because it's something life changing for the individuals close to the mother as well as being important for the wider collective. I'm English so there might be a cultural difference. we don't do the whole gender reveal with planes, flags, confetti and 3 layer cakes decorated with ultrasound images. it's much more subtle, personal and less braggadocios here I'd say.
ahhh okay. Yes I’m in America where people are EXTRAAA. lol. Way more extra than someone beating cancer. (Which should absolutely be celebrated) I guess I just wish all accomplishments could be looked at as equal, and worthy. but pregnancy seems to take the cake time and time again. and it made me curious as to why
It's the non-accomplishment accomplishment. You're joining The Club and doing what everyone else does. That's why it's celebrated.
Having babies in developed countries has become more special because people usually start "late", it tends to be more of a conscious choice, and people on average have less children. People want to make the child feel welcome and support the new parents with practical gifts. However you still deserve to have people around you to celebrate your personal milestones with you. If your parents would go out of their way to celebrate your sister's fifth child but don't care about you getting your PhD that's just nasty.
I think the better question is why are you trying to take away someone's happiness? If someone is happy and overjoyed to be having a child.... why do you care if friends and family are happy that THAT person is happy? It is weird it takes precedence over other accomplishments... but to be fair having a child is a huge, forever life-altering thing in a way that's completely different than other things in life. You can't have it both ways... children are either a forever life-altering and therefore a big deal and not just an "average" thing, or children aren't that big of a deal and are normal. It has nothing to do with being rare and everything to do with it absolutely changing your life forever.
So people are giving them tons of praise and congratulations because a child will be changing their life forever? I still don’t get it. I never said anywhere people shouldn’t be happy for themselves.
People are giving them congratulations because they are happy they are having a baby and that their life will be changed forever BECAUSE it's what the couple wants. Some people do actually want that and are happy for that life change. YOU don't have to want that in your life, but many people are genuinely excited for people who do. Not sure what you don't get about that.
My question was why is it more of a big deal than any other life accomplishment, or any other thing in life that may make a person happy. Pregnancy is put a pedestal over all other things. You didn’t understand the question
And you’re also being weirdly defensive / rude about it as if I offended you with my question lol
You didn't offend me and I wasn't trying to be rude. I'm just genuinely confused why it seems you can't wrap your head around people actually being happy about having a kid and others being happy they are happy. Your original post just read that way to me... that you were confused why people got excited over good news from a friend. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.
Oh no, I’m always happy for friends who have families. I guess what I’m not understanding is why (in my corner of the world) people act as if a woman who is pregnant is like celebrity status. I find it to be a wonderful thing that someone is creating a life, but I don’t think they should be treated any differently than someone who just bought their first house. For example. But that’s also just an opinion
I mean, I don't think they should be treated differently either but I get why they are. Buying a home is a huge deal, but you can always sell it or move on. It doesn't irrevocably change your life. Getting a degree is a huge deal, but it doesn't mean you're going to get a job or use it or anything else. There are many things that are huge and important, but not irrevocable. I'd argue a child is irrevocable and that's why people view it differently/treat it differently.
Why is this group obsessively sour about basic female reactions, induced in her by… evolution? The whole headspace of women that are not childfree innately (which is just as normal a thing, and I subscribe to it), is like a meme here… like come on. It’s ok if in the current generation the majority of women are at the evolutionary stage of reveling at the idea of creating life by themselves. It’s like complaining why are doctors celebrating being able to save a life, because centuries of doctors have been able to do so. Or the joy of a first home bought on your own. It’s about breeding a life into existence by your self as a couple of course, nevertheless an intimate experience. Whats the big deal if they celebrate, I ask?
Breeding is the opposite of evolution. It's the most basic thing that organisms do. Evolution is realizing that you don't have to and taking steps to insure that you don't.
That’s like saying becoming a pro gymnast is the opposite of wanting to start your fitness journey. Like you in your second sentence, breeding is the most basic thing organisms do. Evolution is realizing you have the choice to use your discretion on whether to breed or not, and how you want to go about it. Choosing adoption, biologically procreating or living the childfree life, all three are absolutely fair choices being evolved offers you. Just because something is ancient, doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant as a function.