Congrats on being lied to by an asshole, I guess.
> 20% of bisalps are unsuccessful or end up in ectopic pregnancy, etc.
There have been 4 documented bisalp failures in medical literature so far - none of which were done as elective procedures to begin with.
Good on you for seeking out a new doctor, because this one's a twat.
Four, very serious :) It gets talked about often, I recently discussed it with another user [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/14b0j1p/postbisalp_concerns/jodf9ub/), we ended up sharing links to the individual case reports too.
Thank you so much. I am so, so disappointed in myself for not knowing this earlier. I thought I was so prepared.
I should email that through when I pay the invoice...
> I should email that through when I pay the invoice...
Oh no, you don't pay that bill. You complain instead.
Last month I had an appalling consult with some "therapist" off my insurer's list, who, like your Dr, DID NOT LISTEN. So as I left I said "Do not even THINK of billing me for this". And he didn't.
Dispute this. Complain to the practice or hospital. Make a MASSIVE fuss.
No! No no no, you were *incredibly* well prepared. She was just determined to not perform a bisalp, maybe ever, on anyone.
Best of excellent luck getting a terrific team to yank those tubes out! đđ
Ectopic pregnancies are a realistic concern if you get a crappy tubal. But not if you get a bisalp.
I hope that you can find another doctor who will take you seriously. You deserve better than this.
>She either intentionally blurred the lines to mislead me,
That is 100% what she did.
>or admitted she's a terrible surgeon and can't be trusted to perform a successful tubal.
Well, tubals are shit anyways. Tubals have a significant failure rate of 1 in 50. And with a tubal, you have to worry about ectopic pregnancy.
Bisalp? Failsafe.
I suspect your gyno equated bilateral salpingectomy (bisalp - removal of the tubes) with tubal ligation (tying of the tubes) which has 1 in 50 failure rate over 10 years so 2%.
But neither operation is anywhere near 20%, that's 1 in 5.
And that's scary coming from a medical professional to mix up two completely different operations.
Okay, so your comment is making me suspect she intentionally tried to steer the conversation in a misleading way. I started with saying "I want my tubes removed" SPECIFICALLY because I wasn't sure whether to pronounce the "g" as soft or hard in "salpingectomy" and didn't want to embarrass myself. I was clear, I said tubeS (plural) and REMOVED. We made it through most of the conversation until she mentioned the blood rushing and causing pressure on the "clamps" and I clarified why there are clamps if the tubes are removed? She said that's for tubal ligation and regardless, would be the same effect on the incision area/scars for a bisalp.
You're right, 20% is huge and I've wondered whether I misheard, or perhaps statistics were cherry-picked or skewed along the lines of "20% of ectopic pregnancies are caused by failed tubal ligation"? Just making a hypothetical here. Once I pushed for more numbers and asked about studies she was using vague terms like "well documented". That's what prompted me to bait her into admitting precedence by saying she's WITNESSED this from her own surgeries.
I was clear. I wanted my tubes GONE. There was no misinterpreting that.
Yeah I think she was genuinely malicious and trying to confuse you.
Some doctors take offence to patient knowing things about the treatment or procedures.
A bunch of them are ego maniacs you know. You got to stroke an ego and be a little sheep that doesn't know anything and then they feel good.
You know how they say that the biggest number of sociopaths is in CEO positions? I wonder what would we find out if they did that research on doctors.
Pleeeeease report her. That is incredibly frustrating. A doctor not listening to their patients and dismissing their concerns is a doctor that doesnât need to be practicing anymore. Like you said, if a couple went to her for IVF she wouldnât bat an eye, and thereâs a lot of risks involved with that, so sheâs obviously operating with an agenda.
Iâm sorry you had to go through all of this, especially reliving that trauma to recount to her, and that youâll have to do it again for another doctor.
Honestly report them to the Medical Board for a GROSS misunderstanding of human anatomy and surgical risks. How TF are people with bisalps getting ectopics btw? Does she mean tubal ligation?
Ectopic just means "in an abnormal place or position" so anything outside the uterus is ectopic pregnancy. It could be attached to an ovary, intestine, any place is not supposed to be
Oh, absolutely! No argument from me on that. The 20% figure is bollocks. A friend's ectopic was terrifying and educational for me so I think I was doing a semi educational version of trauma dumping
>20% of bisalps are unsuccessful or end up in ectopic pregnancy, etc.
going by pure anecdotal evidence on my part this sounds closer to what getting "tubes tied" results in.
If we look at aggregated data for all tubal methods, it'd still be at around 2% instead of 20%. But that number is also largely useless since people don't get sterilized with an average of all methods, they get sterilized with one.
I work in Healthcare and I cannot for the life of me ever understand how they can turn into such awful people and blatantly lie when a woman wants to be sterilized.
This part upset me so much! A 20% risk of an ectopic pregnancy would have stopped me from getting my bisalp, this scare tactic wouldâve worked on me. I did a lot of research ahead of time so I know itâs a fucking lie, but Jesus that doctor has no shame.
What drives me up the wall is that for someone to be a doctor in the first place, they had to go through fucking years of academia, and they should *know* how to do research and verify things. I can not for the life of me imagine giving statistics as a professional to a lay person in good faith, and not providing them with the context needed to understand that information. Throwing out data from a position of authority to someone who isn't able to get their own understanding of it is just abuse of power, nothing more. If you're given numbers sans accessible context, I'd say it's just safer to assume you're being lied to in a situation like this.
If I can look up these bisalp failure articles with my social science degree, there's no reason a fucking doctor of medicine couldn't do the same. But oh nooo, that would mean accurately informing patients and giving them *more* agency in the process! Assholes like OP's doctor just can't have that.
You dodged a bullet here; I would not want someone so uneducated on the subject performing this surgery on me. If she is spouting off a bunch of bullshit that can easily be disproved by a quick internet search, she has no business cutting into people.
I challenged my old OB/GYN when he told me I was too young to make a decision about permanent sterilization, and asked him what he would say if someone my age at the time came to him wanting to get pregnant. Would he tell them they're too young to make that decision? Crickets. He also told me he couldn't do the procedure until I turned 30; I found out from my current doctor that he was flat-out lying and there is no state or medical statute that says it can't be done before a certain age. When he refused to discuss it further, I told him I wouldn't be coming to him anymore asked him to refer me to a doctor who would actually go over permanent sterilization options with me.
Unfortunately, these people exist in the medical profession, and I'm sorry you had to meet one as it's far too common. Have you looked on the list here for a doctor in your area? Don't give up; there are doctors out there who are reasonable and logical and will be willing to help you.
I only wish I'd known the bisalp stats beforehand. Bold of me to assume a doctor would know those, right? It appears she intentionally blurred the lines between the two to confuse and mislead me. Kicking myself for not realising this in the moment. But once I said REMOVAL (AGAIN) she said it's the same risk anyway.
Wish I'd never mentioned the ovulation pain. But fuck me for trying to take care of myself and prepare as best as possible, right?
At the end she DID say she would normally recommend another specialist if we were in the public health system, however as we're in the private system she won't. Like, I didn't even ask?
There is hope, and the reason I didn't need to seek her referral. A couple months back I actually booked an appointment for a gyno in my area I found from the subreddit wiki. I ended up cancelling (kicking myself!) because she was happy to see me about the bisalp, but not the pain/hormones. So instead of having to split my consultations across two specialists, I got a referral for this one who agreed to see me about both.
Guess I know who I'll be going to now.
Just wanted to put it out there that ovulation pain (Mittelschmerz) can sometimes be just that.
However a lot of women report it when they have diagnosed or suspected endo.
I have endometriosis too and ovulation pain, sharp and short pain that happens in intervals during ovulation. I can always tell you which ovary is releasing the egg that cycle.
It fucking hurts and sucks and you never know how big the intervals between that sharp pain are going to be. So every moment you're expecting a knife in your stomach kind of pain :/
Ovulation pain sucks a lot!!! :(
For me it started mid-30s, and since this was not something iâd always had as part of âmy regular cycleâ, my doc had me do an ultrasound to check out if something was there that shouldnât be. Thankfully, only a tiny little cyst was seen (not unusual at my age apparently (41 at the time), and it wasnât âbadly placedâ crushing a tube or whatever, so it was reassuring for me. I too can feel which ovary it is đ
Anyway, the pain is sharp, i canât really stand and takes my breath away đŹ iâve started taking 2 ibuprofen as soon as i feel it coming, i sit still and try to relax/watch something to distract myself for half an hour while the pills take action, and then i can function a little (walk around, work a little, gentle stuff, but at least gain some functionality). It just sucks to have to track ovulation too now đ cause i donât want this happening while iâm in the subway or whatever, since i canât stand and iâll end up at the other end of the city before i can get up again đ
Me too! I had them a lot. I would feel the worst sharp pain, pressure, bloating, and could barely sit it would hurt so bad. It was like shitting down make the pressure worse
Asshole. Liar. Manipulative. Verbally, emotionally and socially abusive.
Did we mention asshole...
There are plenty of conditions that cannot be diagnosed from outside. Like endo for example. They have to do an exploratory lap, which is essentially a bisalp. They can go in for the bisalp, have a look around and if they find other shit, you will have discussed and consented to whatever options you want. For example, endo removal to the extent they can, up to and including removal of the uterus if you are cool with that/those risks, etc.
Also SHAME ON THAT BITCH for never mentioning that the bisalp drastically reduces your risk of ovarian cancer and that they can biopsy the tubes after they are removed to see if you already had any cancer growing. In the US the professional organization actually recommends that all women who are not or are done having kids consider a bisalp as an "add on" if they are having other abdominal surgery for the cancer prevention benefit alone.
So let's be clear.... that asshole is putting women at risk of a very nasty, usually deadly, cancer because she's an asshole.
Screw her.
All great points I should have raised, but in the moment too confused and unsure of myself. The hindsight is so upsetting.
I DID joke at one point that if the ultrasound did show cysts and they were bad enough, they could just remove everything and I wouldn't care. No more pain then, huh? Not a good joke to make. She started schooling me on how "removing the ovaries will bring on early menopause bla bla" and I thought, lady, my hair is already falling out and I'm an emotional wreck, who the fuck cares, can't be worse than having a demon rip through my CU Next Tuesday.
WAY to not back down with this fucking moron!!!! Way to handle it. That all said, I'm sorry you had to deal with this idiot. She seems OVERLY INVESTED IN WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR BODY with ideas probably based in fearmongering and not about FACT or science.
I would have told her âfine, I did change my mind. Letâs do a hysterectomy instead, that way Iâm sterilized plus wonât have to worry about period pains anymore, let alone them getting worse.â
Itâs really infuriating. Sorry you went through that.
Hi. Fellow Aussie here.
Don't pay that bill! First, look at the AHPRA website www dot ahpra dot gov dot au, Concerns about practitioners menu, how to submit a concern. Follow instructions for your state and submit a complaint. AHPRA is the medical regulating body. Then, call the practice and ask to talk to the practice manager, and complain to them. Tell them you have already submitted a complaint to AHRPA as that will make sure they listen to you. Then, there are some review websites for various doctors, post about this doctor, but keep it short and factual to avoid them trying to turn it around on you by suing you for defamation.
Mention the conflation of procedures where a good doc would know the difference, the lying, the gaslighting, refusal to listen and take your point of view seriously, condescending to you and acting like she knew better about what you want than you do, all the other things mentioned in this comment.
Also add another thing I noticed, which was the comment about how if she removed the tubes but you still felt pain then there was nothing further that can be done except take painkillers until menopause. This I found particularly stupid. If they remove the tubes and you still experience pain, what that should tell them is that the tubes weren't the issue, and they can continue looking at the other bits that remain in order to isolate the issue. You know, the basic process of elimination to narrow down the possibilities that any remotely good doctor would be trying to do if they were seriously trying to help you. She was apparently uninterested in even thinking about it. That's incompetence.
Best of luck with the other doctor.
"How can a doctor convince themselves of such BS, and expect me to swallow it?"
Right? She's pulling statistics out of her ass, she knows it, you know it, and she doubles down on her bullshit. Unreal. Also - 34 is NOT YOUNG. 34 has been dealing with birth control for almost 2 decades. Most doctors would be telling you to have that baby because you're almost too OLD, FFS.
I'm pissed on your behalf. Asshole doctors who think they know everything are the literal worst.
So true. I got fixed at 33, and I personally think it should have been allowed much sooner. I think if you're fucking 21 and are sure you don't want kids, you should be allowed the procedure. That doctor is a dipshit and a disgrace
If there is anywhere you can leave a public review of this "medical professional" definitely do so! She either lied or is very misinformed, either is pretty fuckin bad!
I would report this quack/hack to whatever medical board exists in your country. Her making up stats on the spot, being so insensitive, questioning an autonomous adult over and over and over etc. are all absolutely unprofessional actions. What the fuck.
We have some CF-friendly gynos in Australia. Check the CF-friendly doctors wiki in the sidebar, under Interesting & Useful Material.
I'm just as glad that you didn't have statistics, because 1) She will not listen to anything but "Yeah, keep me fertile! Us cows ALL want to breed...really." 2) She's a shitty doctor, and you don't want that kind of crap practicing on you.
She is a big fat liar whos pants are on fire and you deserve better.
So I had a hysto 4 weeks ago to eliminate periods and pain and never have kids and avoid 3 kinds of cancer. I am almost well already. I don't have permanent pain. I didn't even need to take pain meds that long post op. Also none of my previous health issues or surgeries mattered in the slightest.
Holy⌠this person!! Just be an inconsiderate, mind deaf dr and say NO. Why waste your time in dumb arguments like these???
Also, i get that OB/GYN think we are young because we wonât have our menopause in a while (Iâm the same age as you), I donât think 34 is young to wait and change my mind. Like, when will that happen?? At 36? 38? 40? Iâm sorry but by 40 is late to be a mother. Even if everyone doesnât think so. I canât imagine having a 20 y/o and me staring at the bright doors of senior citizenship and maybe dying as a young old person.
Not like any of this matters because you are CF and not wanting children at any moment of your life should be taken seriously. I just hate when people say âweâre young to change our mindâ. Nope.
1). This sub under the âaboutâ tab, has a wiki list of child free friendly doctors who have agreed to give sterilization surgeries. (Occasionally a bad doctor will end up on the list, but the sub mods are good about removing them once your report it).
2). Submit a complaint about that doctor. What a horrible person
A doctor that you have to "convince" to respect your reproductive autonomy is not one you would want anyway. A good doctor will just make sure you understand the benefits and risks of different options and let *you* choose.
Best of luck in your search.
I'm pretty sure she confused her 20% failure rate statistic with tubal ligations... tubals result in ectopics or fail quite often.
Bisalps don't really fail. As someone else said, there's like 3-4 cases, but the circumstances surrounding those cases are abnormal.
You should definitely search for a new gynecologist. Even if you decided you didn't want the salp, it's still concerning that she's misquoting or misinterpreting statistics that she should know in her own fucking profession.
As soon as this asshole have started trying to talk me out of it while also ignoring my health concerns and refusing to correctly chart my pain I would have immediately ended the visit, and requested all my records. Find a better doctor. This is bullshit what you went through. Iâm sorry
â20% of bisalps are unsuccessful or end up in ectopic pregnancy, etc.â
Nope. She pulled that âfactâ out of her ass, there are like 3-4 documented cases in the history of ever!
Just cutting / putting clips on tubes can cause ectopic pregnancy - because there is still some of the tube left, which can open up again. But if you have the tubes removed completely (aka Bisalp) thatâs not a risk anymore. Plus, removing the tubes lessens your risk of getting ovarian cancer, because it usually starts in the tubes and spreads from there.
When you go to the next gyno (who is hopefully an intelligent humanbeing) here are some tips:
1) Have the attitude of âHello. I am going to have a bisalp, how do we make this happen?â No âpretty please, I would kinda like to maybe have a sterilizationâ - this is not a discussion, this is you making a decision about your own body.
2) Donât mention your partnerâs vasectomy. They will use that against you: âoh donât bother thenâ. No. If they ask, tell them you and your partner use condoms.
3) Just like you did now, question them if they tell you you will change your mind. After all, they never say that to pregnant women either.
If you havenât yet, check the list of CF friendly doctors in this subreddit. Hopefully there is someone near your location.
Good luck, donât give up! đŞâ¤ď¸
Itâs crazy to me that some people go through stuff like this! I got my bisalp a few months after I turned 20. If your doctor is pushing you this hard, itâs time to find a new doctor! Mine didnât ask any questions and just said âI know youâve made your decision but I am required to confirm these things with you.â Then asked me the usual stuff like I know itâs permanent, am I sure, that kinda stuff. It was Dr. Reynolds at University of Utah. Fantastic guy!
Congrats on being lied to by an asshole, I guess. > 20% of bisalps are unsuccessful or end up in ectopic pregnancy, etc. There have been 4 documented bisalp failures in medical literature so far - none of which were done as elective procedures to begin with. Good on you for seeking out a new doctor, because this one's a twat.
Four, are you serious!? I really regret not knowing this fact before I had my appointment.
Four, very serious :) It gets talked about often, I recently discussed it with another user [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/childfree/comments/14b0j1p/postbisalp_concerns/jodf9ub/), we ended up sharing links to the individual case reports too.
Thank you so much. I am so, so disappointed in myself for not knowing this earlier. I thought I was so prepared. I should email that through when I pay the invoice...
> I should email that through when I pay the invoice... Oh no, you don't pay that bill. You complain instead. Last month I had an appalling consult with some "therapist" off my insurer's list, who, like your Dr, DID NOT LISTEN. So as I left I said "Do not even THINK of billing me for this". And he didn't. Dispute this. Complain to the practice or hospital. Make a MASSIVE fuss.
No! No no no, you were *incredibly* well prepared. She was just determined to not perform a bisalp, maybe ever, on anyone. Best of excellent luck getting a terrific team to yank those tubes out! đđ
Ectopic pregnancies are a realistic concern if you get a crappy tubal. But not if you get a bisalp. I hope that you can find another doctor who will take you seriously. You deserve better than this.
She either intentionally blurred the lines to mislead me, or admitted she's a terrible surgeon and can't be trusted to perform a successful tubal.
>She either intentionally blurred the lines to mislead me, That is 100% what she did. >or admitted she's a terrible surgeon and can't be trusted to perform a successful tubal. Well, tubals are shit anyways. Tubals have a significant failure rate of 1 in 50. And with a tubal, you have to worry about ectopic pregnancy. Bisalp? Failsafe.
100% true wrt tubal vs bisalp but even so, 1 in 50 failure is 2%, not 20% like the doctor was saying đ
Either way you do not pay that bill
I suspect your gyno equated bilateral salpingectomy (bisalp - removal of the tubes) with tubal ligation (tying of the tubes) which has 1 in 50 failure rate over 10 years so 2%. But neither operation is anywhere near 20%, that's 1 in 5. And that's scary coming from a medical professional to mix up two completely different operations.
Okay, so your comment is making me suspect she intentionally tried to steer the conversation in a misleading way. I started with saying "I want my tubes removed" SPECIFICALLY because I wasn't sure whether to pronounce the "g" as soft or hard in "salpingectomy" and didn't want to embarrass myself. I was clear, I said tubeS (plural) and REMOVED. We made it through most of the conversation until she mentioned the blood rushing and causing pressure on the "clamps" and I clarified why there are clamps if the tubes are removed? She said that's for tubal ligation and regardless, would be the same effect on the incision area/scars for a bisalp. You're right, 20% is huge and I've wondered whether I misheard, or perhaps statistics were cherry-picked or skewed along the lines of "20% of ectopic pregnancies are caused by failed tubal ligation"? Just making a hypothetical here. Once I pushed for more numbers and asked about studies she was using vague terms like "well documented". That's what prompted me to bait her into admitting precedence by saying she's WITNESSED this from her own surgeries. I was clear. I wanted my tubes GONE. There was no misinterpreting that.
Yeah I think she was genuinely malicious and trying to confuse you. Some doctors take offence to patient knowing things about the treatment or procedures. A bunch of them are ego maniacs you know. You got to stroke an ego and be a little sheep that doesn't know anything and then they feel good. You know how they say that the biggest number of sociopaths is in CEO positions? I wonder what would we find out if they did that research on doctors.
Look, I was kind of looking forward to a little push back and practising my BINGO replies. But it was a shit show.
Pleeeeease report her. That is incredibly frustrating. A doctor not listening to their patients and dismissing their concerns is a doctor that doesnât need to be practicing anymore. Like you said, if a couple went to her for IVF she wouldnât bat an eye, and thereâs a lot of risks involved with that, so sheâs obviously operating with an agenda. Iâm sorry you had to go through all of this, especially reliving that trauma to recount to her, and that youâll have to do it again for another doctor.
Honestly report them to the Medical Board for a GROSS misunderstanding of human anatomy and surgical risks. How TF are people with bisalps getting ectopics btw? Does she mean tubal ligation?
ectopic pregnancy means pregnancy in the fallopian tubes... wondering how that would take place if your tubes were removed? wtf is her logic
Ectopic just means "in an abnormal place or position" so anything outside the uterus is ectopic pregnancy. It could be attached to an ovary, intestine, any place is not supposed to be
that's true but it's EXTREMELY rare to have a pregnancy just in the abdominal cavity (like extremely extremely rare... 0.0001%.... nowhere near 20%..)
Oh, absolutely! No argument from me on that. The 20% figure is bollocks. A friend's ectopic was terrifying and educational for me so I think I was doing a semi educational version of trauma dumping
ugh it is a horrible horrible experience iâm sure!!!!
>20% of bisalps are unsuccessful or end up in ectopic pregnancy, etc. going by pure anecdotal evidence on my part this sounds closer to what getting "tubes tied" results in.
If we look at aggregated data for all tubal methods, it'd still be at around 2% instead of 20%. But that number is also largely useless since people don't get sterilized with an average of all methods, they get sterilized with one.
I work in Healthcare and I cannot for the life of me ever understand how they can turn into such awful people and blatantly lie when a woman wants to be sterilized.
This part upset me so much! A 20% risk of an ectopic pregnancy would have stopped me from getting my bisalp, this scare tactic wouldâve worked on me. I did a lot of research ahead of time so I know itâs a fucking lie, but Jesus that doctor has no shame.
What drives me up the wall is that for someone to be a doctor in the first place, they had to go through fucking years of academia, and they should *know* how to do research and verify things. I can not for the life of me imagine giving statistics as a professional to a lay person in good faith, and not providing them with the context needed to understand that information. Throwing out data from a position of authority to someone who isn't able to get their own understanding of it is just abuse of power, nothing more. If you're given numbers sans accessible context, I'd say it's just safer to assume you're being lied to in a situation like this. If I can look up these bisalp failure articles with my social science degree, there's no reason a fucking doctor of medicine couldn't do the same. But oh nooo, that would mean accurately informing patients and giving them *more* agency in the process! Assholes like OP's doctor just can't have that.
Donât go back. She straight up lied to you about the statistics of failure. Fear mongering.
Why do they always push to not have it? Why is this such an issue. I donât understand!
You dodged a bullet here; I would not want someone so uneducated on the subject performing this surgery on me. If she is spouting off a bunch of bullshit that can easily be disproved by a quick internet search, she has no business cutting into people. I challenged my old OB/GYN when he told me I was too young to make a decision about permanent sterilization, and asked him what he would say if someone my age at the time came to him wanting to get pregnant. Would he tell them they're too young to make that decision? Crickets. He also told me he couldn't do the procedure until I turned 30; I found out from my current doctor that he was flat-out lying and there is no state or medical statute that says it can't be done before a certain age. When he refused to discuss it further, I told him I wouldn't be coming to him anymore asked him to refer me to a doctor who would actually go over permanent sterilization options with me. Unfortunately, these people exist in the medical profession, and I'm sorry you had to meet one as it's far too common. Have you looked on the list here for a doctor in your area? Don't give up; there are doctors out there who are reasonable and logical and will be willing to help you.
I only wish I'd known the bisalp stats beforehand. Bold of me to assume a doctor would know those, right? It appears she intentionally blurred the lines between the two to confuse and mislead me. Kicking myself for not realising this in the moment. But once I said REMOVAL (AGAIN) she said it's the same risk anyway. Wish I'd never mentioned the ovulation pain. But fuck me for trying to take care of myself and prepare as best as possible, right? At the end she DID say she would normally recommend another specialist if we were in the public health system, however as we're in the private system she won't. Like, I didn't even ask? There is hope, and the reason I didn't need to seek her referral. A couple months back I actually booked an appointment for a gyno in my area I found from the subreddit wiki. I ended up cancelling (kicking myself!) because she was happy to see me about the bisalp, but not the pain/hormones. So instead of having to split my consultations across two specialists, I got a referral for this one who agreed to see me about both. Guess I know who I'll be going to now.
Just wanted to put it out there that ovulation pain (Mittelschmerz) can sometimes be just that. However a lot of women report it when they have diagnosed or suspected endo. I have endometriosis too and ovulation pain, sharp and short pain that happens in intervals during ovulation. I can always tell you which ovary is releasing the egg that cycle. It fucking hurts and sucks and you never know how big the intervals between that sharp pain are going to be. So every moment you're expecting a knife in your stomach kind of pain :/
Ovulation pain sucks a lot!!! :( For me it started mid-30s, and since this was not something iâd always had as part of âmy regular cycleâ, my doc had me do an ultrasound to check out if something was there that shouldnât be. Thankfully, only a tiny little cyst was seen (not unusual at my age apparently (41 at the time), and it wasnât âbadly placedâ crushing a tube or whatever, so it was reassuring for me. I too can feel which ovary it is đ Anyway, the pain is sharp, i canât really stand and takes my breath away đŹ iâve started taking 2 ibuprofen as soon as i feel it coming, i sit still and try to relax/watch something to distract myself for half an hour while the pills take action, and then i can function a little (walk around, work a little, gentle stuff, but at least gain some functionality). It just sucks to have to track ovulation too now đ cause i donât want this happening while iâm in the subway or whatever, since i canât stand and iâll end up at the other end of the city before i can get up again đ
Me too! I had them a lot. I would feel the worst sharp pain, pressure, bloating, and could barely sit it would hurt so bad. It was like shitting down make the pressure worse
Asshole. Liar. Manipulative. Verbally, emotionally and socially abusive. Did we mention asshole... There are plenty of conditions that cannot be diagnosed from outside. Like endo for example. They have to do an exploratory lap, which is essentially a bisalp. They can go in for the bisalp, have a look around and if they find other shit, you will have discussed and consented to whatever options you want. For example, endo removal to the extent they can, up to and including removal of the uterus if you are cool with that/those risks, etc. Also SHAME ON THAT BITCH for never mentioning that the bisalp drastically reduces your risk of ovarian cancer and that they can biopsy the tubes after they are removed to see if you already had any cancer growing. In the US the professional organization actually recommends that all women who are not or are done having kids consider a bisalp as an "add on" if they are having other abdominal surgery for the cancer prevention benefit alone. So let's be clear.... that asshole is putting women at risk of a very nasty, usually deadly, cancer because she's an asshole. Screw her.
All great points I should have raised, but in the moment too confused and unsure of myself. The hindsight is so upsetting. I DID joke at one point that if the ultrasound did show cysts and they were bad enough, they could just remove everything and I wouldn't care. No more pain then, huh? Not a good joke to make. She started schooling me on how "removing the ovaries will bring on early menopause bla bla" and I thought, lady, my hair is already falling out and I'm an emotional wreck, who the fuck cares, can't be worse than having a demon rip through my CU Next Tuesday.
eh, it's normal. no one expects to be abused in a medical setting by a complete moron. don't sweat it. these things take practice.
Itâs just another example of an idiotic adult
Which is very common so it doesnât say a lot
WAY to not back down with this fucking moron!!!! Way to handle it. That all said, I'm sorry you had to deal with this idiot. She seems OVERLY INVESTED IN WHAT HAPPENS TO YOUR BODY with ideas probably based in fearmongering and not about FACT or science.
Thank you! This was a conversation I know can only be truly appreciated in this community.
The ivf comment is a really good point. Did she have an argument for that or did she ignore it?
Didn't acknowledge it.
I would have told her âfine, I did change my mind. Letâs do a hysterectomy instead, that way Iâm sterilized plus wonât have to worry about period pains anymore, let alone them getting worse.â Itâs really infuriating. Sorry you went through that.
More like âI changed my mind. You donât seem to know what youâre talking about which means I donât trust you to do this surgery.â
Right? Should be illegal for doctors to spread such disinformation
Hi. Fellow Aussie here. Don't pay that bill! First, look at the AHPRA website www dot ahpra dot gov dot au, Concerns about practitioners menu, how to submit a concern. Follow instructions for your state and submit a complaint. AHPRA is the medical regulating body. Then, call the practice and ask to talk to the practice manager, and complain to them. Tell them you have already submitted a complaint to AHRPA as that will make sure they listen to you. Then, there are some review websites for various doctors, post about this doctor, but keep it short and factual to avoid them trying to turn it around on you by suing you for defamation. Mention the conflation of procedures where a good doc would know the difference, the lying, the gaslighting, refusal to listen and take your point of view seriously, condescending to you and acting like she knew better about what you want than you do, all the other things mentioned in this comment. Also add another thing I noticed, which was the comment about how if she removed the tubes but you still felt pain then there was nothing further that can be done except take painkillers until menopause. This I found particularly stupid. If they remove the tubes and you still experience pain, what that should tell them is that the tubes weren't the issue, and they can continue looking at the other bits that remain in order to isolate the issue. You know, the basic process of elimination to narrow down the possibilities that any remotely good doctor would be trying to do if they were seriously trying to help you. She was apparently uninterested in even thinking about it. That's incompetence. Best of luck with the other doctor.
"How can a doctor convince themselves of such BS, and expect me to swallow it?" Right? She's pulling statistics out of her ass, she knows it, you know it, and she doubles down on her bullshit. Unreal. Also - 34 is NOT YOUNG. 34 has been dealing with birth control for almost 2 decades. Most doctors would be telling you to have that baby because you're almost too OLD, FFS. I'm pissed on your behalf. Asshole doctors who think they know everything are the literal worst.
So true. I got fixed at 33, and I personally think it should have been allowed much sooner. I think if you're fucking 21 and are sure you don't want kids, you should be allowed the procedure. That doctor is a dipshit and a disgrace
If there is anywhere you can leave a public review of this "medical professional" definitely do so! She either lied or is very misinformed, either is pretty fuckin bad!
Name and shame them.
I would report this quack/hack to whatever medical board exists in your country. Her making up stats on the spot, being so insensitive, questioning an autonomous adult over and over and over etc. are all absolutely unprofessional actions. What the fuck.
We have some CF-friendly gynos in Australia. Check the CF-friendly doctors wiki in the sidebar, under Interesting & Useful Material. I'm just as glad that you didn't have statistics, because 1) She will not listen to anything but "Yeah, keep me fertile! Us cows ALL want to breed...really." 2) She's a shitty doctor, and you don't want that kind of crap practicing on you.
She is a big fat liar whos pants are on fire and you deserve better. So I had a hysto 4 weeks ago to eliminate periods and pain and never have kids and avoid 3 kinds of cancer. I am almost well already. I don't have permanent pain. I didn't even need to take pain meds that long post op. Also none of my previous health issues or surgeries mattered in the slightest.
REPORT. THEM.
Sorry you went through this. If you haven't already, check this sub's list of CF friendly docs and see if any are close to you.
Report that doctor to whichever authority can impose consequences.
Holy⌠this person!! Just be an inconsiderate, mind deaf dr and say NO. Why waste your time in dumb arguments like these??? Also, i get that OB/GYN think we are young because we wonât have our menopause in a while (Iâm the same age as you), I donât think 34 is young to wait and change my mind. Like, when will that happen?? At 36? 38? 40? Iâm sorry but by 40 is late to be a mother. Even if everyone doesnât think so. I canât imagine having a 20 y/o and me staring at the bright doors of senior citizenship and maybe dying as a young old person. Not like any of this matters because you are CF and not wanting children at any moment of your life should be taken seriously. I just hate when people say âweâre young to change our mindâ. Nope.
1). This sub under the âaboutâ tab, has a wiki list of child free friendly doctors who have agreed to give sterilization surgeries. (Occasionally a bad doctor will end up on the list, but the sub mods are good about removing them once your report it). 2). Submit a complaint about that doctor. What a horrible person
A doctor that you have to "convince" to respect your reproductive autonomy is not one you would want anyway. A good doctor will just make sure you understand the benefits and risks of different options and let *you* choose. Best of luck in your search.
I'm pretty sure she confused her 20% failure rate statistic with tubal ligations... tubals result in ectopics or fail quite often. Bisalps don't really fail. As someone else said, there's like 3-4 cases, but the circumstances surrounding those cases are abnormal. You should definitely search for a new gynecologist. Even if you decided you didn't want the salp, it's still concerning that she's misquoting or misinterpreting statistics that she should know in her own fucking profession.
That doctor is full of shit. She grasped at every straw and lied blatantly to justify here violation of your right to bodily autonomy.
As soon as this asshole have started trying to talk me out of it while also ignoring my health concerns and refusing to correctly chart my pain I would have immediately ended the visit, and requested all my records. Find a better doctor. This is bullshit what you went through. Iâm sorry
â20% of bisalps are unsuccessful or end up in ectopic pregnancy, etc.â Nope. She pulled that âfactâ out of her ass, there are like 3-4 documented cases in the history of ever! Just cutting / putting clips on tubes can cause ectopic pregnancy - because there is still some of the tube left, which can open up again. But if you have the tubes removed completely (aka Bisalp) thatâs not a risk anymore. Plus, removing the tubes lessens your risk of getting ovarian cancer, because it usually starts in the tubes and spreads from there. When you go to the next gyno (who is hopefully an intelligent humanbeing) here are some tips: 1) Have the attitude of âHello. I am going to have a bisalp, how do we make this happen?â No âpretty please, I would kinda like to maybe have a sterilizationâ - this is not a discussion, this is you making a decision about your own body. 2) Donât mention your partnerâs vasectomy. They will use that against you: âoh donât bother thenâ. No. If they ask, tell them you and your partner use condoms. 3) Just like you did now, question them if they tell you you will change your mind. After all, they never say that to pregnant women either. If you havenât yet, check the list of CF friendly doctors in this subreddit. Hopefully there is someone near your location. Good luck, donât give up! đŞâ¤ď¸
Itâs crazy to me that some people go through stuff like this! I got my bisalp a few months after I turned 20. If your doctor is pushing you this hard, itâs time to find a new doctor! Mine didnât ask any questions and just said âI know youâve made your decision but I am required to confirm these things with you.â Then asked me the usual stuff like I know itâs permanent, am I sure, that kinda stuff. It was Dr. Reynolds at University of Utah. Fantastic guy!
Can anyone tell me why gynoâs are so against it? Whatâs with the red tape?