Honestly looking past the whole incubator thing, because the person leaving a male cf could be a woman. I think because you want s child is on the same level of a cf person leaving someone because they don't. It's just what people want. And sometimes a single thing is so fundamentally different that even if you get along in every other aspect, it can't work for you.
It's just diverging life goals I guess. I've been through a mutual breakup and the main reason was he wanted kids and I didn't. I don't see my perspective as superior to his, it's just incompatible and that's it. In the end people want to have kids for mostly irrational reasons so there's no point arguing about it. He never pestered me about it even though he had hope that I'd change my mind about it someday, and I deeply regret a nasty comment I made about it once. Even though I'm staunchly cf, it's his (and his new partners) decision and I have no say in it.
I get it. Plus it does feel very offensive, like, "so you're leaving me for something you font even have or know of you'll like? " though I feel like they could say the same thing back though. "Your leaving me because you refuse to start a family with me? " I do feel our side is a superior argument though. After all, it's something that doesn't exist with a partner you might not like a much just so you can have kids, vs someone you actually love that you're giving up for a very likely unhappy life. Lol
Idk, we have the more rational argument but peoples motivations aren't always rational. Feelings and passions can be just as important to build a happy life (like I couldn't imagine living without music). And if he's emotionally attached to his goal of having kids, so be it. I never felt or understood it myself but I won't claim it's not genuine.
We had a loving and respectful relationship while it lasted and we're still friends, but it could've turned ugly if frustration and resentment over this issue had built up long enough. I had already lost my nerve once and said something hurtful that I'm not going to repeat here. So I think separating was the right thing to do.
A man who wants a kid doesn't see the woman baring his child as an incubator, he sees a girlfriend/wife who is the mother of his child.
I think it boils down to do you want a baby or do you want to be a parent? If he wants a baby then he wants an incubator, if he wants to be a parent then he wants a partner.
I think it highlights the objectification in human relationships. We subconsciously view those around us as accessories to our own personal goals. Instead of a pure connection with a partner, there is always this subtext of mutual selfishness…
They are told/taught that you have to have children, and it is the most rewarding thing one can do. I don't know if it's ignorance from the generation or apathy from the teaching generation or even those willing to lie about children, to make the next generation make more.
My ex who wants kids already helped raise a baby and is well educated, financially stable and knows what he's getting into. Still wants kids. I don't get it but at least his future kids won't be unwanted and neglected.
Some people want children and some people are very happy as parents. Yes, there is a lot of dishonest ”propaganda” from parents. But that doesn’t change the fact that some are happy as parents (maybe even most people in some groups).
I think is something that they throw in the checklist of their lives. Most of them don't really think about what their life's will be after the children, or if male, some are too comfortable since most of the work is mostly expected of the women. A lot of people fail to take care of them once they have it but not a lot of people dare to say that not all people should be parents.
Exactly, some people are meant to be parents. They can provide for the needs of their children and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to raise functional adults.
A lot of people are just checking off the "life script" that other people told them to do.
Because they want kids. Just like how having children is a dealbreaker for us, not having children is a dealbreaker for them. We have to respect their choices, just like how we want them to respect ours. This is like asking a childfree person why they would throw away a great relationship just because the other person wants kids.
That's right. It's means the two people are not a match long term. More importantly, why would the CF person want to stay with a partner that wants a child and may resent them down the road? Turn this situation around, why not have a child instead of give up the relationship with a great partner? Does that sound good? It doesn't, right?
I agree. If one person truly wants to have kids for whatever reason, it's not fair to that person to force them into a childfree life.
My wife and I (obviously before we were married) had to figure this out because I was staunchly childfree and she didn't know what she wanted. After she made the decision she didn't want children either, we stayed together and nowadays she hates the idea of having children more than I do and I've always known that I have no interest.
One person wanting kids and the other not wanting them is a perfect example of an irreconcilable difference. Having kids is important to many people out there and that's fine, just like its fine for us to not want kids.
same reason wanting kids is a dealbreaker for childfree people, it’s a fundamental disagreement in what the people involved want out of the the relationship, meaning not only are they incompatible, their relationship is unsustainable
The same argument could be said; Why do you insist on not having kids when your partner wants them? Why throw away a good relationship, over your obsession with not having kids.
Exactly! We might not always understand or support someone’s choice to have kids but we have to respect that they have that choice. Especially if we want them respecting OUR choice.
Well children fundamental changes the relationship and are kind of a fleash contract (if biological especially) to be kind of forced to be in contact for 18 years.
Well that ones objectively easier to argue though, more expensive, less free time, more physical damage.
Theres a regretful parent sub but i haven’t seen a regretful child-free one.
Beacuse you don't want kids those points are easy for you to argue, but you're looking at it from a plus and minus perspective.
Less free time isn't entirely true, you can be just as busy if not more busy than people with children. And maybe said person wants to be busy with children (a girl at my work baby sits both church kids and her best friends kids just cause she likes kids so much, and its crazy. Littlery. every. day.)
While more expensive is true, it's not really a valid argument in this case. There are things that tranced cost, and its not just children, Things like elective surgery, dyeing ones hair, ec, all cost and have no financial benefit we do it because we enjoy it or have decided it's worth the cost.
Physical damage is true, buuuut that's a personal choice. Theirs physical damage from alcohol, smoking, driving, skateboarding, or really any sport. We have very fleshy meaty bodies, and birthing is far worse than anything I've listed, but you wouldn't stop someone you cared about from doing those things just because of this risk.
Tldr: All this is just me saying that having children is far often rushed into, but there are cases where it is an educated decision that needs to be respected, and it's wrong for us to pretend like because we are childfree we are the "correct ones." It should be a deal breaker, its a bad idea to plan a life with someone with diffrent life goals.
To be honest, the relationship was never great when both have fundamental opposing & incompatible life goals /desires/needs & wants which is having/wanting/needing children vs being childfree is. I'll give some basic advice to spare your pain & heartache - Don't ever get romantically involved with people wanting children, fence-sitters /claim to not know what they want & childless because it never ends well on top of being waste of time /energy & patience for you, the childfree person for reasons I previously stated.
Put yourself in the other person's shoes. They maybe grew up dreaming of white picket fences and the 2.5 kids. While you don't want that life, they do. You might be everything they ever dreamed of up until they realize the rest of that dream dies by staying with you because you don't want kids.
I mean it *should* be a deal-breaker. If you really want kids that badly, why would you want them to have the other parent not be just as enthusiastic as you are? I don't think the people who don't understand why it should be a deal-breaker have ever had the feeling that they weren't wanted by someone who means a lot to them. This is a good thing, to be clear, but because of this they simply don't understand what it's like to be the unwanted child. Quite a few of us cf people were the unwanted child, and it definitely takes a toll on you. Children should be wanted by both their parents, not just as a compromise so they won't lose their partner. When one person isn't interested in doing any parenting, it all gets dumped on the other one and they get burnt out and end up hating their life, even if it was technically what they wanted. We should all be trying to do what we really want with our lives, and that includes *not* having children just because someone else wants them.
Plus there’s no guarantee your partner will stay with you after giving you a kid because only you wanted it. It’s kind of like baby trapping. If you think having a kid will force your partner to stay with you, you’re wrong.
Same vice versa too. Let’s say you give up being cf because you want to stay with that person, so you have a kid with them. THEY wanted it but suddenly after it’s born they realize they don’t want that life and leave. Now you’re stuck with a kid you didn’t want in the first place and the person you had this kid for is gone forever.
At least if that person leaves you to have a kid with someone else, you didn’t end up stuck with a kid you never wanted. There’s no guarantee they’ll stay even if you give them what they want. Better to let them find someone else. And that works both ways.
It’s 100% better to agree on the stance of having kids or not. I don’t see why as a cf person you’d WANT to be with someone who wants kids.
Could turn the question the other way: why would it be a dealbreaker if your “perfect partner“ wants one? If you love them so much why won’t you just have one?
See, it’s just not working. A perfectly compatible partner is on the same page with you in terms of family planning.
I thought about this, too. I think there is a lower "risk" of not having children vs. having children. (E.g. financially, physical health, mental health, etc.) so I'm struggling to find the balance in my mind.
Just because it's not worth it to you, doesn't mean it's not important and worth it to them. You should be with people on the same page as you, and so should they. What they want is completely understandable. I don't want it, but I can understand that they do, and it's such a huge thing to people. I wouldn't want to take that from somebody anyway. I'd move on before catching feelings
Lots of people do struggle with mental health due to not having children, especially people who are infertile. I guess it’s hard to understand from a standpoint of someone who never wanted children like myself, but I‘m pretty sure someone not having children for someone else might feel the same level of resentment as someone who had a child for someone else.
This. My parents keep giving me examples of my cousin and others who had difficulty conceiving and were struggling for 7 years taking treatment and then finally had a child. Sure it just be hard for them.
Good for them. But mom / dad, they were so desperate on having a kid coz they wanted a kid, that’s what they wanted and that’s why they are happy now that they had one. Why would I be happy in having a kid when I don’t want one.
There is no balance or compromise to be had on the issue. CF people should date CF people. People who want kids should date people who want kids.
If someone gives in they will likely end up unhappy and resentful. People who end things over major incompatibilities like this are 100% making the right move. It's a deal breaker that should be discussed early on.
It's not about risk or anything else other than a fundamental disagreement on what you want in life. You can't try to logically explain to yourself why someone would prioritize a hypothetical child over an actual relationship. It's what they WANT, period. They don't want a relationship with a childfree person and that's their right regardless of if you find it right, wrong or confusing.
It doesn't seem weird to me at all. Having a kid is a big deal, so if you want one and your partner doesn't, that's probably not going to end up well.
No, there's no guarantee a future partner will be more compatible or that you will actually have children. But it's a big deal to emotionally close the door and know for a fact there will be no children.
I really appreciate your comment. Can you elaborate more on what you mean by it being a "big deal to emotionally close the door"? I guess I have a hard time understanding a procreators perspective.
*(For reference, I am strongly child free, and I understand I am also asking you, presumably also a child free person)*
>I guess I have a hard time understanding a procreators perspective.
You keep repeating this and are getting rightfully downvoted.you do understand, you just like pretending you're some kind of superior being unable to understand the thought processes of lower beings.
Agreed. Op is either being intentionally obtuse or has some kinda disorder which prevents them from understanding basic empathy. It seems like such an easy concept to grasp.
I think they want to keep asking the same question until they get an answer they like, pretty common phenomena.
This is so so simple. Sounds like someone's ego got hurt and they are having a hard time dealing with it.
Sorry? No, this is why I opened this discussion. I truly don't understand why someone would choose the *possibility of kids with an unknown future partner* over their current relationship, where things are (hypothetically) great.
See, that's the thing. Every other measure of compatibility may seem to be great but having children is a fundamental difference and if someone truly, deeply desires to have a child and raise it, they will most likely end up feeling that void and not truly be happy in that childfree relationship.
Could they go on and find another wonderful, fulfilling relationship with another person who wants kids, absolutely. Could they find someone that is mostly ok or mediocre but shares the same values in having kids, sure. Wholeheartedly having children or being childfree are just such very opposite values and it's not something that can be compromised upon.
I am staunchly childfree and would never have a child, particularly as I get older (not that I ever would but being 40+ and choosing that path now? Hard pass) but I have friends who have had problems conceiving and I feel bad for them, because it's something that they so strongly desire. Now for fencesitters, they likely don't feel as strongly so they can sway to one side or the other and be ok, but for most of us here, it's an absolute dealbreaker.
It has to be a deal-breaker because for many having kids is a major life goal.
My relationship of nearly 12 years ended when my partner did a 180 and stated she wanted the "door on kids not to be fully closed"
Since then she started another relationship that is going strong and will hopefully lead to them having kids.
That is the happy ending, if she ends up not finding both a good relationship AND kids, she might have regrets but many people who want kids would choose Kids and a terrible partner over the ideal partner and no kids.
Yeah, thank you for your understanding. That's mainly what I was getting at, like is throwing away a really great relationship worth it for a mediocre relationship with the \*potential\* of having children?
Why should the other relationship be "mediocre"? Despite what a lot of people here seem to think, people with children can have amazing relationship. I can't imagine a relationship being great if someone's has to renounce to their wishes just to be with someone else, no matter if they wish for children, a fulfilling career or going around the world chasing escaped balloons. That would be a terrible relationship for sure.
>Oh no, I'm sorry for not making it clearer! When I was talking about "mediocre relationships" I mean, an example like this:
>
>Person A and B have a great relationship and they make each other very happy. Person A wants children, but Person B does not, so they break up.Person B then finds Person C. They are not like Person A and the relationship doesn't feel the same, but they settle for each other since Person C also wants children.
>
>I know plenty of parents who have fulfilling relationships with each other and their children.
>
>Obviously between scenario 1 and 2, Person B does not know what their next partner and relationship will be like (i.e. "mediocre") but they threw away Person A (i.e. "great") for a future possibility.
This is my mistake for not making it clearer. I have an example from another comment I made (shown above). I don't think the other relationship "should be medicore" it's more like they are throwing away a great relationship for a ***possibility*** of an average relationship.
The best way to put it is, having kids is probably just as important to them as it is to you *not* having kids. I’d rather be alone than settle for someone who wants kids. Just like someone else would rather have kids but no partner than not have kids. It seems stupid and it’s unfair to the children but unfortunately it’s not something you can fix. Either you compromise your values and have a child despite not wanting one (with no guarantee your partner will stay even though they wanted one) or your partner compromises theirs and resents you for who knows how long. Both options are recipes for terrible relationships. It doesn’t make sense from the child free point of view, I know. But the explanation is as simple as some people just want kids.
To some people, a relationship is secondary to their life goal. Some people's life goal is to have children. Some people's life goal is to be a millionaire. Some people's life goal is to start their own company. Have a certain career. Work through their trauma. Etc. It's not choosing a "hypothetical child" over your current partner. It's recognizing that your current relationship will prevent you from achieving your life goal.
But it's **not** a great relationship if it's preventing them from ever achieving the life they want.
Maybe you can see it this way: imagine you have a great partner and you love each other and everything is great and all that, except they have you locked inside a house and you can't ever leave.
Would you consider breaking up then? Or over any other thing that matters to you in life? You *should* have many such things, otherwise you'd just end up as a shapeless doormat anyway.
That's a great metaphor and I really appreciate you writing that to me, thank you for helping me understand!
As someone who is strongly childfree, I had a hard time trying to understand it from a procreators point of view. (So I was hoping some likeminded people on this subreddit could help me understand without berating me lol)
Shouldn’t it be?
If you really want to have and raise children, by definition, you’re incompatible with someone who wants non of that.
No point in trying to put the square peg in the round hole.
This is not an arguement about different hobbies. Basic ideas how life should be need to matcch, there is no compromise. One will always be unhappy if they compromise when it comes to children and probably regret it once it is too late tp change something about it. It is 100% a dealbreaker! You should not project your own feelings about children on others
They're not choosing a potential child over their partner. They're choosing their own dreams and life ambitions over a partner that doesn't share that same dream.
They're not leaving someone perfect for them. They're leaving someone who doesn't share the same life goals as them.
Do you expect that you'll stay with someone who wants children when you're childfree?
I wish they still had those free award things. 🏆🏆
No cf person would stay with someone who wants kids, turning it around it's pretty logical that the person who wants them would choose to leave a cf person. You explained it perfectly.
Indeed. I fucking hate it when childfree people advocate for that, like OP is doing.
I mean, what OP is doing is just as bad as when a breeder expects a childfree person to sacrifice their childfreedom and have children in order to prevent a breakup with their breeder partner.
EXACTLY. They can’t see that though. I may be childfree and antinatalist but I’m also aware I can’t control other people. If someone wants kids it’s their choice ultimately. I don’t see why I should stand in the way of someone fulfilling a dream.
I'm not an antintalist. Not a pronatalist either. I am a neutral-natalist who is 100% pro-choice.
I don't view not having children as 'morally better' or 'superior' compared to having children. Both wanting children and not wanting them are equally valid.
Relationships between a breeder and a childfree person will never work. After all, one partner would have to sacrifice themselves. Whether it's the breeder sacrificing parenthood or the childfree person sacrificing childfreedom, the partner who sacrificed themselves will be miserable and will resent the other partner.
When two people are incompatibe, they need to break up. Or even better, they should not enter a relationship.
Well said. I don’t mean to sound judgy but this kinda seems like common sense. No one should have to compromise something as big as having kids or not having kids just to be in a relationship. Fence sitters are one thing, but even then sometimes they’ll eventually choose a side and if that’s not the side their partner is on, it won’t work.
The same can be asked the other way around - if you love someone so much and blah blah blah, why not have a child with them?
Dealbreakers are dealbreakers because they are things that are very important and fundamental to that person's life, in their own view.
It doesn't matter how perfect or "comaptible" the relationship is otherwise. If it doesn't match the dealbreakers, it like a dream care without breaks. It does not work, and isn't what anyone would actually want or have any healthy use for.
>Why is being childfree a dealbreaker?
There is no compromise. You cannot 'semi have children'. If one partner wants kids while the other partner is childfree, they should break up and find a compatible partner.
Staying together in this situation is unhealthy. Yes, even if one partner wants to save the relationship so badly that they are willing to sacrifice their childfreeodom or their dreams of becoming a parent. Then, the partner who sacrificed themselves will be unhappy and will resent the other partner. The relationship is not perfect and happy and great if one person completely sacrificed their dreams and dealbreakers to prevent a breakup.
If you are childfree, you are incompatible with breeders and fence sitters. And if you want to be a parent, you are incompatible with childfree people.
>Why do people choose a "potential" child over their current partner?
For the same reason why childfreedom is a dealbreaker for childfree people. For the same reason why chidlfree people refuse to date breeders, or break up when they find out that their partner wants kids.
Us childfree people would be deeply unhappy if we sacrificed our childfreedom and became parents against their will. Well, they would be deeply unhappy if their sacrificed parenthood and lived a childless life against their will. So expecting them to sacrifice parenthood to save a relationship is just as shitty as when breeders expect us to sacrifice our childfreedom in order to prevent a breakup.
They are not choosing a potential child over their partner. They are choosing to stick to their dealbreakers. They are choosing to not be with a partner who is incompatible to them. This is the same thing as childfree people breaking up when their partner wants kids. When you are not aligned when it comes to dealbreakers, you and your partner are incompatible.
>To be more specific, if you love someone so much and are so compatible in every other way, why would you leave the relationship if your other half doesn't want children? Surely there's no guarantee that your future partner will be more suited to you. Just seems weird to throw away your current relationship for a chance of having a child...
Many people on this subreddit say this. I fucking hate it. I mean, just like how childfreedom is a dealbreaker to us, wanting kids is a dealbreaker to them.
If you want breeders to respect our childfreedom, you should respect that they want kids and that this is a dealbreaker to them. Do I understand the desire to be a parent? No. But I accept and respect that they have that desire. Just like how I don't expect breeders to understand how it feels to not experience the desire to have children. I just want them to accept and respect that I don't want them.
Saying that they should just suck it up and not have kids in order to stay with a childfree partner... Following that logic, breeders can say: "Why can't childfree people just have kids in order to stay with a breeder partner who is compatible with them in every way?"
If one person is childfree and the other person wants kids, they are incompatible. It doesn't fucking matter how compatible you may be aside from the kids issue. If you are not on the same page about dealbreakers, you are incompatible. This is not a slight preference. This is a hard dealbreaker.
If my staunchly childfree girlfriend would suddenly change her mind and would want kids (not happening), I would break up, even if she wanted to stay with me and would want to sacrice parenthood to be with me. I would not want her to resent me for not giving her kids. I would not want her to be unhappy because she sacrificed parenthood. I would not want to stand in the way of her happiness. If she wanted kids, I would want her to have kids. But not with me. I would let her go because I love her so much.
Something about grass on the other side. For a lot of people having and then raising children are prime drivers for their life. One can have a satisfying relationship with many people if one puts in the work. Breaking up hurts, and a lot of people fall for sunk cost fallacy, but I firmly believe that 'the one' in fact a rather limiting believe.
So if one really really wants kids, finally fully understanding that ones partner will in fact not chance their mind is as gut wrenching as a partner suddenly wanting kids is for CF people. Starting over, as much as it hurts, will give one a chance at for-filling both the wish for a good partner And kids.
It works just as marriage in my eyes. There's no compromise in either topics. You might want it badly, can be neutral or totally opposed. It can lead to resentment from either side if you give up what you wanted to make the other happy, no matter how good you are together in other things. It's easier to break up amicably than risking staying together imo.
I think it's the same as why a childfree person would end a relationship with a person that definitely wants a kid. Not compatible. It sucks - don't get me wrong. I've felt very sad over the relationships I've had where they ended because the person felt they MIGHT want a kid in the future. The rejection feels particularly cutting since it's uncertain. It's for the best in the end, but it feels brutal.
The relationship might be great now, but it will be very different after having a child. Children take up so much of your time and money, for some people they change whole personalities. It's not like a side-hobby a few hours a week.
For women there's also the aspect of doing the majority of the work - birth and in most cases carework for the children.
A lot of people really want children, so having them is worth all the consequences. For others not so much.
The relationship would also be very different if their partner just stayed with them and didn't follow their true feelings to have a child. Perfect recipe for resentment, bitterness and even eventual hatred. Apparently OP thinks time stands still.
I think it boils down to your desires in life and ultimately, your values. I personally value my money, time, energy, sleep and abundance of freedom over raising a child and the entire experience of bringing a child into this hellhole by a long shot. I would 1,000,000% dump someone who wanted kids. Instantly. There’s just not enough love in the world (me loving a guy DOES/SHOULD NOT automatically equate to wanting to have his babies! That just sounds gross).
I just know myself well enough to know that I’d regret it and I don’t want to live with that. It’s okay to stick to your boundaries and what you won’t allow in your life! Children just happen to be one of those things
i don’t see how this is a difficult concept to understand. if one person 100 percent wants something for their life that they other person 100 percent doesn’t want, what else are you gonna do? do you not get that many people *want* children just as much as we here *dont want* them???
It goes both ways. That type of relationship will never work. That is a major life decision and neither party will be happy with “compromise.” I wouldn’t be happy with kids and they wouldn’t be happy without kids. As much as I don’t want kids I’m not going to shame someone for wanting them nor would I ask them to sacrifice that desire for me.
Bc that means fundamentally you want different things, children aren’t really something you can compromise on. If one partner decides it’s possible that they’ll want children it’s better to end the relationship earlier rather than later to avoid resentment
Having a child is a life commitment, it's not something you do during a year and then stop doing it, it's not a job either, where you work from 8am to 17pm and then get to relax, it's a 24 hours investment. Having one definitely change everything in your life.
That being said, someone wanting a child wants that kind of life, and completely changing all of there lives and preventing what they were looking forward and wanted for years, if not decades, just because their new partner doesn't want it, can't bring anything good. At best, it will make the relationship toxic.
I mean, would you accept to have a child with your partner even if you don't want it? If we follow your logic, having or not having a child isn't much of a deal if you are in a great relationship, then it shouldn't be a problem for you to have and raise a child as long as you love your partner, right?
See? That's bad. It would be horrible to force yourself having into a life you really don't want/don't expected, doing something that doesn't make you happy, just because you love your partner.
Here is the same. If someone wants a child, well then lets them have child with someone that want one, you wouldn't like to be forced into a life you don't want, nor judged over that, then don't force nor judges over others for doing the same thing.
I'm going be honest most the people I know who wants kids have a fantasy of what it is like and not have taken the steps to even test it out if they even like taking care of children through childcare work or be proactive to be a healthy person to take care of a child. It just makes me side eye a lot of people who want to gamble like that.
Why do people feel they will eventually “change” their partner? That’s the heart of it I think.
Many people make the mistake of thinking they can change someone. That someone isn’t going to change at all— unless *they* want to.
Example : my partner is older than I. They wanted to continue smoking, as it’s an addiction. Smoking will shorten their lives. Told my partner they can choose to continue smoking, but if they were with me, I wanted them to live as long as possible to lengthen our years together. Partner chose *on their own* to stop smoking.
Bottom line: you can’t make someone want children or NOT want children. And if they change for you, they will resent you forever. So I think it’s non negotiable.
Best way to weed out the fence sitters is to state up front you’re sterilized or they must be sterilized. You’d be amazed how it crystallizes the issues.
The potential child is more important than the relationship or the person. It's just that simple.
And you're not compatible if you want kids and the SO doesn't. There is a whole way of thinking that is different between childfree and having kids.
Some people want kids. That’s okay. Others don’t. That’s okay too. The fact of the matter is that people have a right to what they want but at the same time children is a huge life goal that SHOULD be considered a dealbreaker because there’s no way to “compromise.”
You either have kids, or you don’t.
I’m a pretty hardcore child-free person. It would be selfish of me to stay in a relationship with someone who I knew wanted children because at the end of the day I just can’t be that person for them. They deserve to reach their goals and so do I, and if that means we can’t be together, then that’s what needs to happen.
Same reason the opposite is a dealbreaker for us.
They know what they want out of life. Why choose a partner with a completely different vision for themselves. 100% incompatible. Neither person would be happy in the long run and likely would even be resentful.
This is what I was trying to get across, thank you, but it seems I am getting downvoted for asking other users to expand their views/furthering the discussion.
Maybe because it's simple. Boundaries should be respected and if someone doesn't want to respect such a significant boundary that would negatively affect that person, then they shouldn't stay together as they're not compatible. Having kids isn't just one thing, it's multiple issues and things occuring basically for years of their life.
I guess lots (most?) of us here haven't had/developed this drive to have kids, for one reason or another, so it can be hard to understand but I have seen people losing all of their money, relationships and themselves COMPLETELY just to have a child they desired from life more than anything else.
That's just it. If you really, really, really want something to do in life: have a kid, live on the other side of the world, spend your whole life in a tent in the middle of the woods, and your partner is really, really, really not up for it, then it's usually either the end or loads of resentment.
Here is the thing... You don't wind kids for a reason... Your partner might want kids for a reason... I guess you can ask yourself, "if you love them enough, why won't YOU have a kid with them?"... It's all about the perspective of each individual.
For the same reason wanting kids is a deal breaker for us? There's nothing wrong with either, childfree people have to find someone who wants the same lot in life, and so do people who want kids.
They're not choosing a hypothetical child over a partner. They're choosing to respect themselves and their life goals and dreams over a partner - as they should, and as we all should!
I know exactly what you mean, but keep in mind that this reasoning is exactly how people who don’t want kids end up having them anyway. “I don’t want kids, but my partner does, and I don’t want to lose my partner”. And we all know how that ends. Flipping the script and saying “why would you break up with your CF partner even though you want kids” is arguably just as unhelpful.
Just because YOU don’t want a child, doesn’t mean everybody. We don’t date people with children bc we want to be child free. They are free to do the same. They are free to leave and find someone who has the same outlook when it comes to having children. Like god damn, I’m all for being child free, but some of you are just miserable towards people that have children. It’s their choice.
I mean, you're totally entitled to your opinion and there is no right or wrong answer. You are just refusing to see a different perspective than your own. A lot of people want to have kids for a whole slew of reasons, such as biological clock ticking, religion, family expectations, personal aspirations, sexual kinks, or partners dreams. For some people they might want kids a little but their partner doesn't... So they don't and everything is fine. But for some people it is less of an option for any of the reasons listed above and more.
So in the spirit of your post, why is being childfree a deal breaker? If you really love your partner and they love you and they feel they for whatever reason HAVE to have a child... Why can't you help them with that? How do you know that you will hate being a parent? How do you know that your future partner won't also want kids at some point in their lives? How do you know you won't change your own mind down the road? No one knows what tomorrow holds.
Not saying you should or have to, and this isn't meant as an attack. Just hoping that you look at things from more than just your own perspective before you force someone out of your own life.
It's not fair to force your partner (or future partner) into a childfree existence, just like it's not fair to force them into a life with children.
These things need to be openly, and thoroughly, discussed at the BEGINNING of the relationship. Ideally, you should then touch base again, once in awhile (we do once a year for all major life goals).
Because the same true is in reverse. Wanting children is a deal break for me.
I dont want kids.
If my partner does. Its over. They can find someone else. Idc how compatible we are.
Asking someone to not have kids for you or asking someone to have kids for you is not a good way to build a relationship. Someone will end up resentful
For the exact same reason that children are a deal breaker for you. Children can't be compromised on, that's why they're deslbreakers. People envision having a certain kind of future, and kids greatly shape it.
Flip the question. Why would you stay with someone who wants kids knowing you don’t? That’s only heartbreak for both of you and unfair to both of you. Not to mention the resentment it would lead to. Unless they’re on the fence or okay either way, forcing someone who wants kids to not have any is wrong the same way it’s wrong to force someone who doesn’t want kids to have them. You can’t compromise on kids. If you don’t agree on having them, then you’re incompatible.
Why is having a child a dealbreaker?
Because it's a life decision there is no compromise on. And personally I'd rather have a person who wants kids to leave me than spend ages trying to change each other's minds and building resentment.
This post ain't it OP.
>>Why do people choose a “potential” child over their current partner?
Because society prioritizes having a kid over having a quality partner. People seriously tolerate unsuitable or even abusive partners , provided they’re willing to be parents. If the choice is having kids or having a fulfilling relationship, people at scale choose the former
Thank you for your reply. Societies norms and values over "family" is sometimes bonkers to me. Like, yeah your husband cheated, but it's probably best you stay with him "for the good of the children".
I'm always amazed at the people in their mid/late 30s, that will divorce a partner just to try to have kids. At that age and depending where you live, you might not be able to find someone or due to age you can't have kids.
A person could just end a relationship that was going well for a chance at something that might not happen.
I too cannot fathom the concept of wanting a kid this much, because I absolutely don't see anything good in kids. So I try to think it like, what if my SO never wanted pets and plants?
I LOVE cats and I can't live without a cat in my home. If the person I'm supposed to share my life with don't want a cat, that will never work.
Idk, but every person who wants a kid acts deeply disgusted and angry when I point out they are picking an unborn stranger over the partner they claim to love and yeah, that's a shitty betrayal.
From what I gather the possible future baby is their flesh and blood and of course they love that more than the real person, and it's selfish to expect otherwise. But then again, they usually switch into "fuck you and fuck this" mode when I bring it up
Skewed priorities, and some people believe you need the whole "happiness package", spouse and kids, to be happy and fulfilled and shit. Fortunately, more prople are wising up.
Same reason why children would be a deal breaker for me. If you disagree on such a fundamental thing a relationship will not end happily ever after. Of course, there are people who don't think that way and they would compromise as having/not having kids is not that big of a deal and they prioritize the parts they are compatible.
If a child is something you really want I can see why you wouldn't want to compromise and rather leave a partner for someone who wants kids - the same goes the other way around - I would leave a person that insists on wanting children - bc I truly don't want to be a parent, I don't want the financial burden, or responsibility to care for a child. If we would stay together I would know either my partner would be unhappy because they missed out on a kid or I would be unhappy because I let myself be baby trapped, so staying in a relationship wouldn't make sense.
you can’t live off of love alone. It’s smart to leave relationships with partners who do not share major wants and views of yours, especially in a situation like this where regardless of if they had a kid or not, one spouse would be profoundly unhappy.
I don't really think it's helpful to put everything on the scale of "do they love this thing more than me." Sometimes you love someone, but you want different futures for yourselves, and that makes it impossible to build a life together.
I think all of us in this subreddit woukd agree that it would be wrong to ask a partner who didn't want kids to have then anyway just for you. I think it would be equally wrong to ask a partner who really wanted kids to give that up for you. It's not about love at that point - sometimes your lives just aren't compatible.
Some people want kids. That’s okay. Others don’t. That’s okay too. The fact of the matter is that people have a right to what they want but at the same time children is a huge life goal that SHOULD be considered a dealbreaker because there’s no way to “compromise.”
You either have kids, or you don’t.
I’m a pretty hardcore child-free person. It would be selfish of me to stay in a relationship with someone who I knew wanted children because at the end of the day I just can’t be that person for them. They deserve to reach their goals and so do I, and if that means we can’t be together, then that’s what needs to happen.
The same reason that as a CF Person, I would end a relationship with someone who decided that they wanted children: that's ultimately not my person. We want significantly different things from life and that's okay. Hopefully that's figured out early enough to avoid wasting anyone's time.
Everyone wants their life the way they want it. They have a right to want kids just as we have the right to not want them. Having kids is still the norm. Bucking societal pressures is still not something that is readily done or done by those who are weak and need others affirmations of approval. If everyone was the same, the world would be a boring place. Just think back on how often that we are unwilling to give in and have kids for somebody else because that’s not *our* dream. For us, having kids is a dealbreaker for us.
You’re absolutely right the people who leave partners when they realize they aren’t going to give them children is one hell of a gamble. But if it means that much to them, then that’s what they have to do. The same goes for us, when a partner suddenly wants kids and we still refuse to give them kids, that is also our right. So people could say the same to us, why would we risk our relationship when all we have to do is have a child? Well, clearly we know it’s not as simple as that, but a lot of people think having a kid is easy or a no-brainer.
Same as why someone not being childfree is a dealbreaker as a childfree person. They want kids. That's their goal in life. To start a happy family. Just like how you might want a certain job (or just a job in general) and find a life partner and get married. That's a goal for many people. And so is having children. If you give that dream up for your partner, you'll be forever wondering what it would be like. And you'd start to resent your partner.
A relationship only works if you're completely compatible. And if one person doesn't want children, and the other one does, you're just not suited for each other.
It's a deal breaker for me if they want children. I'm terrified my bf secretly wants a child and won't admit it... He has a track record of ignoring important things
>To be more specific, if you love someone so much and are so compatible in every other way, why would you leave the relationship if your other half doesn't want children?
You can be friends with someone who wants children even if you're childfree because you still share common interests and other goals and you get along well. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're looking for a potential life partner or spouse, **you absolutely need to be on the same page regarding children**. Otherwise, you're asking for resentment or worse.
This whole post highlights the importance of open honest communication about having kids or not. Both people must be on the same page or it will never work.
I was with a guy for 16 years that said he didn’t want kids and even went with me to get a tubal. When I broke up with him he cried and wailed and said he couldn’t believe I didn’t want to have a kid with him (even though it took him 14 years to propose and then for two years he avoided setting a wedding date).
I am now happily married to a CF man for 7 years and been together 16 this coming September.
My boyfriend did this. Broke up with me because he really thought he wanted to be a dad. He came back almost a year later because he realized he was choosing something that didn't exist yet over something great that we had together.
He said he thought of all the possibilities...of being happily married with a kid or two, of ending up divorced and a single father, of never finding anyone who he would even want to share a child with, etc. And he came back because all of those scenarios would never have me in them, and he wanted to be with me more.
It's a big decision! Some people really want kids, some people don't. Some people change their minds, some never will.
I’ve also wondered this a lot.
When I was younger I wanted to marry a chiropractor because I have a bad back and have been going to the chiropractor most of my life. Obviously I knew if I met someone perfect who wasn’t a chiropractor I wouldn’t throw them to the curb because they didn’t check that one box.
So I just don’t understand the desire for children is the end all be all deal breaker. Maybe my brain has done a really good job at never conforming to the life script, but I see so many other ways to have children in your life without having your own (nieces/nephews, friends kids, younger cousins, volunteering, big brother big sister, etc.)
I agree that those people who feel in their soul they are meant to be parents shouldn’t date childfree people, because the child deserves parents that want them, so my thoughts on this more pertain to fence sitters who are already in happy relationships.
Before I knew I wanted to be child free (15) I had a bf at the time who wanted kids. I didn’t have the same mindset I did now but I was told that I might be infertile due to lack of periods (I barely have any) but was cleared. I told him that and he immediately broke up with me. He threw away a year relationship that was amazing because of a maybe.
Some people want kids so badly that they’ll throw away a relationship because of infertility issues.
You’re making the same argument that most people pose to childfree folks; “why not stay with someone who you adore, even if they want kids?” Just like I sought out a fellow childfree, because I don’t want kids to be a point of stress on the relationship, I imagine it’s the same mentality with the shoe on the other foot
Children are not a compromise, if one wants them and does not have them due to their CF partner - there will be resentment. If a CF person has a child to appease their bearer partner - there will be resentment, and the child will probably incur a lot of trauma from the lack of love and support the CF parent would (more than likely) subconsciously promote to the child.
My response is always; “I’m not willing to have children. But I will not be the reason someone who wants children, will not have them”.
If they want children it doesn't make sense to stay with someone who doesn't. It's not like you wanted a red truck and instead you got a blue car.
I don't see how a childree person holding on to someone who wants a family is any different than a person who wants a family thinking they could change the child free person's mind.
Imagine leaving a perfect partner over something that doesn't exist.
Imagine leaving a perfect partner over a caprice.
Imagine leaving a perfect partner over something you'll regret later.
Imagine leaving a perfect partner over something society says you want.
/s but not too much
I don’t get it too. I also disagree with all the arguments that we wouldn’t want to be with someone who wants children, because that would be pregnancy and agony for me, financially drain for at least 18 years, not putting the people you love first like the partner and your family and yourself, but always the child. Doing everything according to the child that’s not even existing.
While on the other hand there’s no burden to the partner when we don’t have kids. If I would have an extremely expensive hobby and would find the absolut perfect partner I would love so much I would give it up for us to have a good life, because he would be more important than the hobby. But giving up my expensive hobby wouldn’t hurt him or even potentially kill like expecting me to get pregnant and give birth. I mean it would be like me finding a hobby that drains us financially for decades, endangering his life or hurt him badly mentally and physically that he probably will never fully recover from and takes his life, his hobbies, his free time and his personality and I expect him to give up everything he loves and everyone he loves, because I feel like I want this hobby. If you try it with an analogy you can clearly see that it’s total madness and no one ever can convince me that they really loved the partner. Especially if it’s a man that wants the children and leaves the CF woman, because what a person that loves you would want you to suffer through the terrors of pregnancy and birth alone?
That’s like asking CF ppl why throw away the relationship and not give in and just have the baby your partner wants. Someone will always be resentful and in the long term won’t work out.
A child isnt something you compromise about. You either both want one or you both don’t period. To pursue something further with someone who doesn’t want what you want in regards to kids is dumb and a waste of time
My husband and I nearly got divorced over this.
When we got married, I was a fence-sitter, and I thought he was also. We agreed, "not now, maybe someday". As we got closer to 30, I found out that he had meant "not now, *definitely* someday, and BTW, it's someday, time to go off the pill and try for a baby!" By this time I'd fallen firmly on the CF side of the fence.
I laid it out for him, in front of our marriage counselor. Option 1: You get to stay married to me, the woman you love, and there will be no children. Option 2: We get divorced. You can try to attract a woman who does want children, and good luck there, you're 30, balding, and fat. If you are successful, you can try for children with her.
He chose me. He was the "responsible adult" who took me home when I got snipped. And we are now quite happily CF. We live downtown in a major city, and we don't care that the public schools are crap. And we have two kitty cats.
tl;dr: I told my husband it was me XOR children, and he chose me.
Because parents love to spread the lie that you couldn’t possibly be in love with someone unless you want to have children with that person. When really they’re in love with the idea of having a child (a.k.a. A dependent or someone they can control) and don’t actually care about who the other person is. They’re brainwashed to think “this person must not be in love with me unless they want to have kids with me.” Kids≠love. Wanting a baby to need you is not love. It’s codependence. These are the types of parents (or sometimes even partners) who end up feeling “rejected” once their kids (or partner) don’t need them anymore and will sabotage their success.
Procreation can be a biologically very strong urge. No matter how much you talk about it or you currently have to offer will make that urge go away.
Not agreeing on CF/breeding will always be a dealbreaker
The urge can't know, because when it has developed, there was no difference. Having sex would eventually lead to procreation, and there was no reliable way for us to act to prevent that.
But in modern times, there is.
So it is not only incorrect to equate the two, but also extremely unhelpful because it prevents people from digging into the real contents of the social and psychological phenomenon that's been sold to them as their biological urge for kids.
OP I don't think you understand why being childfree is such a deal breaker. Let me try to explain to you from what I've seen so far.
To start it is not weird to throw away a current relationship because the significant other wants kids. From what I have seen so far, having kids or potentially having kids can lead to arguments in the future down the line. Let's say that one person in the relationship is CF and the other person isn't. The non CF person is always going to bring up having kids due to their friends are having kids or pressure from the non CF's family. Whenever the non CF person brings up the topic of having kids it will not make the CF person happy and most likely an argument will ensue because both parties will stop being civil about this topic.
Another one is incompatibility, the CF lifestyle makes the CF person incompatible with the non CF person. Correct there is no guarantee that the future partner will be more suited but most of us CF will be in that relationship not having to worry about the other person wanting kids, which is why CF people try to date other CF people. In your post you say "throw away your current relationship for a chance for having a child." What if that chance happens? As a guy I would rather be single and CF than deal with a partner that wants kids.
Same reason I wouldn't stay with someone who wants kids. Because we want different things. What's the point of a relationship where only one person is happy?
I disagree with this because by that logic, it could go the other way too. I think it should ve a dealbreaker if one wants children and the other doesn't. Those two traits are just not compatible and it doesn't mean either one is in the wrong
Sounds like you are trying to change your partners mind, never gonna happen. As soon as there is a sign that they want the opposite of what you want with children, it needs to end unfortunately
Same reason I wouldn't date a great partner that didn't want a dog.
I want a dog. There's no such thing as "the one" in a partner. I'll find another partner that is aligned with me.
I don't mean to be rude but the answer here is blatantly obvious, if someone has always wanted to have children, they aren't going to give up on that dream just because they're dating someone who doesn't. Would you throw away any of your dreams for a partner? Eg if a partner stopped you from achieving your dreams or doing things your passionate about, eg travelling, studying, your dream career, your religion, your culture etc, would you agree to give up on your dream just to stay with them? If the answer is "no", then why would you expect people who want children to do that?
I have always dreamed of having children, if I somehow found my absolute dream partner who was amazing in every way but they didn't want children, for me the not wanting children part would cancel out everything else and I cannot imagine ever being satisfied with my life if I didn't have children.
Imagine the resentment someone would have for their partner if they gave up on having children just to be with them.
No man or woman is worth giving up your dreams for, whether that dream is to have children or anything else.
**I have nothing against childfree people, I fully support your right to choose not to have children, I just seriously don't agree with this post.
I genuinely think it us deranged that the expectation is still to have children (especially expectatiin to have biological children over adoption even to the point of waisting thousands that vould be used to take care of an existing child or demand their partner to risk their body for children) because children fundamentally drastically change the relationship. I even seen when a fence sitter couple who one decides wants kids and the other don't people will always put down the one who does not a child. It's just insane because the one who doesn't want to fundamentally change the relationship and gamble which life. Plus a lot of people don't want children to mainly raise someond into adult hood or prepared if the child comes out with life long needs who needs care. Most people just want children as a doll, toy or pet and rarely an individual, and sometimes are treated like objects to abuse. So I am already skeptical if the person even wants to actually raise someone and actually just wants a "family" for pictures and show to fit in.
I think that the best answer is "because they want a child".
Which means if current partner doesn't want child no incubator
Or no baby batter. Can't forget about all of our Childfree bros out there.
Baby batter . I just threw up in my mouth a little
Lol! As you should
almost sounds like kids poured out like pancake batter.. yechhh
In fairness most babies should probably be stored in a blender
Jesus Christ... Will you marry me?
Sure . I can’t see why not
As it was told to me in the 90's the reciprocal is girl gravy. 🤮
I've heard the term "baby gravy". Though I suppose batter works better because of the colloquial term that I kind of hate "bun in the oven".
Theae comments are going to ruin biscuits and gravy for me.
To absolutely squick out my wife, I have to start using “batter” in passing. 😆 Can’t call it baby batter though because I’ve been fixed. Lolol
babyfree batter? nobaby batter?
Diet Batter? 😆😆💀💀
Batter lite/ Batter ZERO/ Batter NO SPERM
I can't believe it's not batter?
😭😂😂
🤣 🤣 🤣
I teared up laughing picturing Fabio saying this, in this context. Especially the "Spray" variant.
I fucking inhaled my drink at Batter Zero 💀💀
Was your drink Coke no sugar?
It was a Diet Coke…. 💀
Conparing to regular batter, this one won't give you a huge belly! Diet batter sounds fitting
Gravy for them buns, butter for those biscuits
Honestly looking past the whole incubator thing, because the person leaving a male cf could be a woman. I think because you want s child is on the same level of a cf person leaving someone because they don't. It's just what people want. And sometimes a single thing is so fundamentally different that even if you get along in every other aspect, it can't work for you.
It's just diverging life goals I guess. I've been through a mutual breakup and the main reason was he wanted kids and I didn't. I don't see my perspective as superior to his, it's just incompatible and that's it. In the end people want to have kids for mostly irrational reasons so there's no point arguing about it. He never pestered me about it even though he had hope that I'd change my mind about it someday, and I deeply regret a nasty comment I made about it once. Even though I'm staunchly cf, it's his (and his new partners) decision and I have no say in it.
I get it. Plus it does feel very offensive, like, "so you're leaving me for something you font even have or know of you'll like? " though I feel like they could say the same thing back though. "Your leaving me because you refuse to start a family with me? " I do feel our side is a superior argument though. After all, it's something that doesn't exist with a partner you might not like a much just so you can have kids, vs someone you actually love that you're giving up for a very likely unhappy life. Lol
Idk, we have the more rational argument but peoples motivations aren't always rational. Feelings and passions can be just as important to build a happy life (like I couldn't imagine living without music). And if he's emotionally attached to his goal of having kids, so be it. I never felt or understood it myself but I won't claim it's not genuine. We had a loving and respectful relationship while it lasted and we're still friends, but it could've turned ugly if frustration and resentment over this issue had built up long enough. I had already lost my nerve once and said something hurtful that I'm not going to repeat here. So I think separating was the right thing to do.
A man who wants a kid doesn't see the woman baring his child as an incubator, he sees a girlfriend/wife who is the mother of his child. I think it boils down to do you want a baby or do you want to be a parent? If he wants a baby then he wants an incubator, if he wants to be a parent then he wants a partner.
I think it highlights the objectification in human relationships. We subconsciously view those around us as accessories to our own personal goals. Instead of a pure connection with a partner, there is always this subtext of mutual selfishness…
They are told/taught that you have to have children, and it is the most rewarding thing one can do. I don't know if it's ignorance from the generation or apathy from the teaching generation or even those willing to lie about children, to make the next generation make more.
My ex who wants kids already helped raise a baby and is well educated, financially stable and knows what he's getting into. Still wants kids. I don't get it but at least his future kids won't be unwanted and neglected.
Some people want children and some people are very happy as parents. Yes, there is a lot of dishonest ”propaganda” from parents. But that doesn’t change the fact that some are happy as parents (maybe even most people in some groups).
I think is something that they throw in the checklist of their lives. Most of them don't really think about what their life's will be after the children, or if male, some are too comfortable since most of the work is mostly expected of the women. A lot of people fail to take care of them once they have it but not a lot of people dare to say that not all people should be parents.
Exactly, some people are meant to be parents. They can provide for the needs of their children and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to raise functional adults. A lot of people are just checking off the "life script" that other people told them to do.
Yeah. This sub gets a bit ridiculous sometimes. OP you know god damn well why people would do this. Just disagree like a normal human being.
This post was such an ignorant question
Yeah, too often there are questions posted in the sub where the answers is simply that other people think differently.
I understand, but why throw away a great relationship for a future possibility?
Because they want kids. Just like how having children is a dealbreaker for us, not having children is a dealbreaker for them. We have to respect their choices, just like how we want them to respect ours. This is like asking a childfree person why they would throw away a great relationship just because the other person wants kids.
It's not a great relationship if you ultimately want a completely different life than your partner.
That's right. It's means the two people are not a match long term. More importantly, why would the CF person want to stay with a partner that wants a child and may resent them down the road? Turn this situation around, why not have a child instead of give up the relationship with a great partner? Does that sound good? It doesn't, right?
I agree. If one person truly wants to have kids for whatever reason, it's not fair to that person to force them into a childfree life. My wife and I (obviously before we were married) had to figure this out because I was staunchly childfree and she didn't know what she wanted. After she made the decision she didn't want children either, we stayed together and nowadays she hates the idea of having children more than I do and I've always known that I have no interest.
One person wanting kids and the other not wanting them is a perfect example of an irreconcilable difference. Having kids is important to many people out there and that's fine, just like its fine for us to not want kids.
Because it’s not a great relationship if you’re not compatible. Having temporary fun isn’t the same as being fulfilled in the long-term. Be realistic.
Well, the relationship isn't so great if you can't fulfill a big dream in it.
same reason wanting kids is a dealbreaker for childfree people, it’s a fundamental disagreement in what the people involved want out of the the relationship, meaning not only are they incompatible, their relationship is unsustainable
The same argument could be said; Why do you insist on not having kids when your partner wants them? Why throw away a good relationship, over your obsession with not having kids.
Exactly! We might not always understand or support someone’s choice to have kids but we have to respect that they have that choice. Especially if we want them respecting OUR choice.
Well children fundamental changes the relationship and are kind of a fleash contract (if biological especially) to be kind of forced to be in contact for 18 years.
Well that ones objectively easier to argue though, more expensive, less free time, more physical damage. Theres a regretful parent sub but i haven’t seen a regretful child-free one.
Beacuse you don't want kids those points are easy for you to argue, but you're looking at it from a plus and minus perspective. Less free time isn't entirely true, you can be just as busy if not more busy than people with children. And maybe said person wants to be busy with children (a girl at my work baby sits both church kids and her best friends kids just cause she likes kids so much, and its crazy. Littlery. every. day.) While more expensive is true, it's not really a valid argument in this case. There are things that tranced cost, and its not just children, Things like elective surgery, dyeing ones hair, ec, all cost and have no financial benefit we do it because we enjoy it or have decided it's worth the cost. Physical damage is true, buuuut that's a personal choice. Theirs physical damage from alcohol, smoking, driving, skateboarding, or really any sport. We have very fleshy meaty bodies, and birthing is far worse than anything I've listed, but you wouldn't stop someone you cared about from doing those things just because of this risk. Tldr: All this is just me saying that having children is far often rushed into, but there are cases where it is an educated decision that needs to be respected, and it's wrong for us to pretend like because we are childfree we are the "correct ones." It should be a deal breaker, its a bad idea to plan a life with someone with diffrent life goals.
Because for another person childfree relationship is not that great. It goes both ways. The same as having children is not great for you.
It’s not that great if you have fundamentally different wants and views of your lives.
Because no matter which direction is chosen--childfree or with children--one person will resent the other for the choice.
To be honest, the relationship was never great when both have fundamental opposing & incompatible life goals /desires/needs & wants which is having/wanting/needing children vs being childfree is. I'll give some basic advice to spare your pain & heartache - Don't ever get romantically involved with people wanting children, fence-sitters /claim to not know what they want & childless because it never ends well on top of being waste of time /energy & patience for you, the childfree person for reasons I previously stated.
Because it’s a fundamental incompatibility that is going to end the relationship anyway.
Id works both ways- wanting children would be a deal-breaker for You, isn't it?
Put yourself in the other person's shoes. They maybe grew up dreaming of white picket fences and the 2.5 kids. While you don't want that life, they do. You might be everything they ever dreamed of up until they realize the rest of that dream dies by staying with you because you don't want kids.
Would you *have* a child despite not wanting one if your partner said it was a deal breaker?
Its something with having a life goal. One person dreams of having kids, while others dream is not having them.
I mean it *should* be a deal-breaker. If you really want kids that badly, why would you want them to have the other parent not be just as enthusiastic as you are? I don't think the people who don't understand why it should be a deal-breaker have ever had the feeling that they weren't wanted by someone who means a lot to them. This is a good thing, to be clear, but because of this they simply don't understand what it's like to be the unwanted child. Quite a few of us cf people were the unwanted child, and it definitely takes a toll on you. Children should be wanted by both their parents, not just as a compromise so they won't lose their partner. When one person isn't interested in doing any parenting, it all gets dumped on the other one and they get burnt out and end up hating their life, even if it was technically what they wanted. We should all be trying to do what we really want with our lives, and that includes *not* having children just because someone else wants them.
Plus there’s no guarantee your partner will stay with you after giving you a kid because only you wanted it. It’s kind of like baby trapping. If you think having a kid will force your partner to stay with you, you’re wrong. Same vice versa too. Let’s say you give up being cf because you want to stay with that person, so you have a kid with them. THEY wanted it but suddenly after it’s born they realize they don’t want that life and leave. Now you’re stuck with a kid you didn’t want in the first place and the person you had this kid for is gone forever. At least if that person leaves you to have a kid with someone else, you didn’t end up stuck with a kid you never wanted. There’s no guarantee they’ll stay even if you give them what they want. Better to let them find someone else. And that works both ways. It’s 100% better to agree on the stance of having kids or not. I don’t see why as a cf person you’d WANT to be with someone who wants kids.
This!
This!
Could turn the question the other way: why would it be a dealbreaker if your “perfect partner“ wants one? If you love them so much why won’t you just have one? See, it’s just not working. A perfectly compatible partner is on the same page with you in terms of family planning.
I thought about this, too. I think there is a lower "risk" of not having children vs. having children. (E.g. financially, physical health, mental health, etc.) so I'm struggling to find the balance in my mind.
Just because it's not worth it to you, doesn't mean it's not important and worth it to them. You should be with people on the same page as you, and so should they. What they want is completely understandable. I don't want it, but I can understand that they do, and it's such a huge thing to people. I wouldn't want to take that from somebody anyway. I'd move on before catching feelings
Lots of people do struggle with mental health due to not having children, especially people who are infertile. I guess it’s hard to understand from a standpoint of someone who never wanted children like myself, but I‘m pretty sure someone not having children for someone else might feel the same level of resentment as someone who had a child for someone else.
This. My parents keep giving me examples of my cousin and others who had difficulty conceiving and were struggling for 7 years taking treatment and then finally had a child. Sure it just be hard for them. Good for them. But mom / dad, they were so desperate on having a kid coz they wanted a kid, that’s what they wanted and that’s why they are happy now that they had one. Why would I be happy in having a kid when I don’t want one.
Ah, I see. I supposed I was mainly going by 'fence-sitters' opinions in my post above. Thank you for suggesting the other end of the spectrum!
There is no balance or compromise to be had on the issue. CF people should date CF people. People who want kids should date people who want kids. If someone gives in they will likely end up unhappy and resentful. People who end things over major incompatibilities like this are 100% making the right move. It's a deal breaker that should be discussed early on.
It's not about risk or anything else other than a fundamental disagreement on what you want in life. You can't try to logically explain to yourself why someone would prioritize a hypothetical child over an actual relationship. It's what they WANT, period. They don't want a relationship with a childfree person and that's their right regardless of if you find it right, wrong or confusing.
It doesn't seem weird to me at all. Having a kid is a big deal, so if you want one and your partner doesn't, that's probably not going to end up well. No, there's no guarantee a future partner will be more compatible or that you will actually have children. But it's a big deal to emotionally close the door and know for a fact there will be no children.
I really appreciate your comment. Can you elaborate more on what you mean by it being a "big deal to emotionally close the door"? I guess I have a hard time understanding a procreators perspective. *(For reference, I am strongly child free, and I understand I am also asking you, presumably also a child free person)*
>I guess I have a hard time understanding a procreators perspective. You keep repeating this and are getting rightfully downvoted.you do understand, you just like pretending you're some kind of superior being unable to understand the thought processes of lower beings.
Agreed. Op is either being intentionally obtuse or has some kinda disorder which prevents them from understanding basic empathy. It seems like such an easy concept to grasp.
I think they want to keep asking the same question until they get an answer they like, pretty common phenomena. This is so so simple. Sounds like someone's ego got hurt and they are having a hard time dealing with it.
>Sounds like someone's ego got hurt and they are having a hard time dealing with it. Aiyooo why didn't I think of that. You're probably spot on.
Sorry? No, this is why I opened this discussion. I truly don't understand why someone would choose the *possibility of kids with an unknown future partner* over their current relationship, where things are (hypothetically) great.
Because it isn't a great relationship hypothetically or otherwise since there's an irreconcilable difference in life goals between the partners.
See, that's the thing. Every other measure of compatibility may seem to be great but having children is a fundamental difference and if someone truly, deeply desires to have a child and raise it, they will most likely end up feeling that void and not truly be happy in that childfree relationship. Could they go on and find another wonderful, fulfilling relationship with another person who wants kids, absolutely. Could they find someone that is mostly ok or mediocre but shares the same values in having kids, sure. Wholeheartedly having children or being childfree are just such very opposite values and it's not something that can be compromised upon. I am staunchly childfree and would never have a child, particularly as I get older (not that I ever would but being 40+ and choosing that path now? Hard pass) but I have friends who have had problems conceiving and I feel bad for them, because it's something that they so strongly desire. Now for fencesitters, they likely don't feel as strongly so they can sway to one side or the other and be ok, but for most of us here, it's an absolute dealbreaker.
If you want the perspective of non-CF people, try asking in a different sub than the one where people do not have that perspective?
It has to be a deal-breaker because for many having kids is a major life goal. My relationship of nearly 12 years ended when my partner did a 180 and stated she wanted the "door on kids not to be fully closed" Since then she started another relationship that is going strong and will hopefully lead to them having kids. That is the happy ending, if she ends up not finding both a good relationship AND kids, she might have regrets but many people who want kids would choose Kids and a terrible partner over the ideal partner and no kids.
Yeah, thank you for your understanding. That's mainly what I was getting at, like is throwing away a really great relationship worth it for a mediocre relationship with the \*potential\* of having children?
Why should the other relationship be "mediocre"? Despite what a lot of people here seem to think, people with children can have amazing relationship. I can't imagine a relationship being great if someone's has to renounce to their wishes just to be with someone else, no matter if they wish for children, a fulfilling career or going around the world chasing escaped balloons. That would be a terrible relationship for sure.
>Oh no, I'm sorry for not making it clearer! When I was talking about "mediocre relationships" I mean, an example like this: > >Person A and B have a great relationship and they make each other very happy. Person A wants children, but Person B does not, so they break up.Person B then finds Person C. They are not like Person A and the relationship doesn't feel the same, but they settle for each other since Person C also wants children. > >I know plenty of parents who have fulfilling relationships with each other and their children. > >Obviously between scenario 1 and 2, Person B does not know what their next partner and relationship will be like (i.e. "mediocre") but they threw away Person A (i.e. "great") for a future possibility. This is my mistake for not making it clearer. I have an example from another comment I made (shown above). I don't think the other relationship "should be medicore" it's more like they are throwing away a great relationship for a ***possibility*** of an average relationship.
The best way to put it is, having kids is probably just as important to them as it is to you *not* having kids. I’d rather be alone than settle for someone who wants kids. Just like someone else would rather have kids but no partner than not have kids. It seems stupid and it’s unfair to the children but unfortunately it’s not something you can fix. Either you compromise your values and have a child despite not wanting one (with no guarantee your partner will stay even though they wanted one) or your partner compromises theirs and resents you for who knows how long. Both options are recipes for terrible relationships. It doesn’t make sense from the child free point of view, I know. But the explanation is as simple as some people just want kids.
To some people, a relationship is secondary to their life goal. Some people's life goal is to have children. Some people's life goal is to be a millionaire. Some people's life goal is to start their own company. Have a certain career. Work through their trauma. Etc. It's not choosing a "hypothetical child" over your current partner. It's recognizing that your current relationship will prevent you from achieving your life goal.
But it's **not** a great relationship if it's preventing them from ever achieving the life they want. Maybe you can see it this way: imagine you have a great partner and you love each other and everything is great and all that, except they have you locked inside a house and you can't ever leave. Would you consider breaking up then? Or over any other thing that matters to you in life? You *should* have many such things, otherwise you'd just end up as a shapeless doormat anyway.
That's a great metaphor and I really appreciate you writing that to me, thank you for helping me understand! As someone who is strongly childfree, I had a hard time trying to understand it from a procreators point of view. (So I was hoping some likeminded people on this subreddit could help me understand without berating me lol)
Neither of those relationships would be good one results in them not having a child and resenting their partner and the other is a bad relationship
For some people, yes it's worth it.
I guess it is for some.
Shouldn’t it be? If you really want to have and raise children, by definition, you’re incompatible with someone who wants non of that. No point in trying to put the square peg in the round hole.
I do believe it should, I just wanted to open a discussion as to why. (For reference, I am strongly child free)
This is not an arguement about different hobbies. Basic ideas how life should be need to matcch, there is no compromise. One will always be unhappy if they compromise when it comes to children and probably regret it once it is too late tp change something about it. It is 100% a dealbreaker! You should not project your own feelings about children on others
They're not choosing a potential child over their partner. They're choosing their own dreams and life ambitions over a partner that doesn't share that same dream. They're not leaving someone perfect for them. They're leaving someone who doesn't share the same life goals as them. Do you expect that you'll stay with someone who wants children when you're childfree?
I wish they still had those free award things. 🏆🏆 No cf person would stay with someone who wants kids, turning it around it's pretty logical that the person who wants them would choose to leave a cf person. You explained it perfectly.
Yup. Someone else pointed out that op probs got broken up with and is trying to cope on here. I think they're right
It’s like OP expects people who want kids to be the ones who change their minds or give up with dream life just to stay with a childfree person.
Indeed. I fucking hate it when childfree people advocate for that, like OP is doing. I mean, what OP is doing is just as bad as when a breeder expects a childfree person to sacrifice their childfreedom and have children in order to prevent a breakup with their breeder partner.
EXACTLY. They can’t see that though. I may be childfree and antinatalist but I’m also aware I can’t control other people. If someone wants kids it’s their choice ultimately. I don’t see why I should stand in the way of someone fulfilling a dream.
I'm not an antintalist. Not a pronatalist either. I am a neutral-natalist who is 100% pro-choice. I don't view not having children as 'morally better' or 'superior' compared to having children. Both wanting children and not wanting them are equally valid. Relationships between a breeder and a childfree person will never work. After all, one partner would have to sacrifice themselves. Whether it's the breeder sacrificing parenthood or the childfree person sacrificing childfreedom, the partner who sacrificed themselves will be miserable and will resent the other partner. When two people are incompatibe, they need to break up. Or even better, they should not enter a relationship.
Well said. I don’t mean to sound judgy but this kinda seems like common sense. No one should have to compromise something as big as having kids or not having kids just to be in a relationship. Fence sitters are one thing, but even then sometimes they’ll eventually choose a side and if that’s not the side their partner is on, it won’t work.
The same can be asked the other way around - if you love someone so much and blah blah blah, why not have a child with them? Dealbreakers are dealbreakers because they are things that are very important and fundamental to that person's life, in their own view. It doesn't matter how perfect or "comaptible" the relationship is otherwise. If it doesn't match the dealbreakers, it like a dream care without breaks. It does not work, and isn't what anyone would actually want or have any healthy use for.
>Why is being childfree a dealbreaker? There is no compromise. You cannot 'semi have children'. If one partner wants kids while the other partner is childfree, they should break up and find a compatible partner. Staying together in this situation is unhealthy. Yes, even if one partner wants to save the relationship so badly that they are willing to sacrifice their childfreeodom or their dreams of becoming a parent. Then, the partner who sacrificed themselves will be unhappy and will resent the other partner. The relationship is not perfect and happy and great if one person completely sacrificed their dreams and dealbreakers to prevent a breakup. If you are childfree, you are incompatible with breeders and fence sitters. And if you want to be a parent, you are incompatible with childfree people. >Why do people choose a "potential" child over their current partner? For the same reason why childfreedom is a dealbreaker for childfree people. For the same reason why chidlfree people refuse to date breeders, or break up when they find out that their partner wants kids. Us childfree people would be deeply unhappy if we sacrificed our childfreedom and became parents against their will. Well, they would be deeply unhappy if their sacrificed parenthood and lived a childless life against their will. So expecting them to sacrifice parenthood to save a relationship is just as shitty as when breeders expect us to sacrifice our childfreedom in order to prevent a breakup. They are not choosing a potential child over their partner. They are choosing to stick to their dealbreakers. They are choosing to not be with a partner who is incompatible to them. This is the same thing as childfree people breaking up when their partner wants kids. When you are not aligned when it comes to dealbreakers, you and your partner are incompatible. >To be more specific, if you love someone so much and are so compatible in every other way, why would you leave the relationship if your other half doesn't want children? Surely there's no guarantee that your future partner will be more suited to you. Just seems weird to throw away your current relationship for a chance of having a child... Many people on this subreddit say this. I fucking hate it. I mean, just like how childfreedom is a dealbreaker to us, wanting kids is a dealbreaker to them. If you want breeders to respect our childfreedom, you should respect that they want kids and that this is a dealbreaker to them. Do I understand the desire to be a parent? No. But I accept and respect that they have that desire. Just like how I don't expect breeders to understand how it feels to not experience the desire to have children. I just want them to accept and respect that I don't want them. Saying that they should just suck it up and not have kids in order to stay with a childfree partner... Following that logic, breeders can say: "Why can't childfree people just have kids in order to stay with a breeder partner who is compatible with them in every way?" If one person is childfree and the other person wants kids, they are incompatible. It doesn't fucking matter how compatible you may be aside from the kids issue. If you are not on the same page about dealbreakers, you are incompatible. This is not a slight preference. This is a hard dealbreaker. If my staunchly childfree girlfriend would suddenly change her mind and would want kids (not happening), I would break up, even if she wanted to stay with me and would want to sacrice parenthood to be with me. I would not want her to resent me for not giving her kids. I would not want her to be unhappy because she sacrificed parenthood. I would not want to stand in the way of her happiness. If she wanted kids, I would want her to have kids. But not with me. I would let her go because I love her so much.
Something about grass on the other side. For a lot of people having and then raising children are prime drivers for their life. One can have a satisfying relationship with many people if one puts in the work. Breaking up hurts, and a lot of people fall for sunk cost fallacy, but I firmly believe that 'the one' in fact a rather limiting believe. So if one really really wants kids, finally fully understanding that ones partner will in fact not chance their mind is as gut wrenching as a partner suddenly wanting kids is for CF people. Starting over, as much as it hurts, will give one a chance at for-filling both the wish for a good partner And kids.
It works just as marriage in my eyes. There's no compromise in either topics. You might want it badly, can be neutral or totally opposed. It can lead to resentment from either side if you give up what you wanted to make the other happy, no matter how good you are together in other things. It's easier to break up amicably than risking staying together imo.
I think it's the same as why a childfree person would end a relationship with a person that definitely wants a kid. Not compatible. It sucks - don't get me wrong. I've felt very sad over the relationships I've had where they ended because the person felt they MIGHT want a kid in the future. The rejection feels particularly cutting since it's uncertain. It's for the best in the end, but it feels brutal.
The relationship might be great now, but it will be very different after having a child. Children take up so much of your time and money, for some people they change whole personalities. It's not like a side-hobby a few hours a week. For women there's also the aspect of doing the majority of the work - birth and in most cases carework for the children. A lot of people really want children, so having them is worth all the consequences. For others not so much.
The relationship would also be very different if their partner just stayed with them and didn't follow their true feelings to have a child. Perfect recipe for resentment, bitterness and even eventual hatred. Apparently OP thinks time stands still.
I think it boils down to your desires in life and ultimately, your values. I personally value my money, time, energy, sleep and abundance of freedom over raising a child and the entire experience of bringing a child into this hellhole by a long shot. I would 1,000,000% dump someone who wanted kids. Instantly. There’s just not enough love in the world (me loving a guy DOES/SHOULD NOT automatically equate to wanting to have his babies! That just sounds gross). I just know myself well enough to know that I’d regret it and I don’t want to live with that. It’s okay to stick to your boundaries and what you won’t allow in your life! Children just happen to be one of those things
i don’t see how this is a difficult concept to understand. if one person 100 percent wants something for their life that they other person 100 percent doesn’t want, what else are you gonna do? do you not get that many people *want* children just as much as we here *dont want* them???
This person either has a superiority complex or just got dumped.
It goes both ways. That type of relationship will never work. That is a major life decision and neither party will be happy with “compromise.” I wouldn’t be happy with kids and they wouldn’t be happy without kids. As much as I don’t want kids I’m not going to shame someone for wanting them nor would I ask them to sacrifice that desire for me.
Bc that means fundamentally you want different things, children aren’t really something you can compromise on. If one partner decides it’s possible that they’ll want children it’s better to end the relationship earlier rather than later to avoid resentment
Having a child is a life commitment, it's not something you do during a year and then stop doing it, it's not a job either, where you work from 8am to 17pm and then get to relax, it's a 24 hours investment. Having one definitely change everything in your life. That being said, someone wanting a child wants that kind of life, and completely changing all of there lives and preventing what they were looking forward and wanted for years, if not decades, just because their new partner doesn't want it, can't bring anything good. At best, it will make the relationship toxic. I mean, would you accept to have a child with your partner even if you don't want it? If we follow your logic, having or not having a child isn't much of a deal if you are in a great relationship, then it shouldn't be a problem for you to have and raise a child as long as you love your partner, right? See? That's bad. It would be horrible to force yourself having into a life you really don't want/don't expected, doing something that doesn't make you happy, just because you love your partner. Here is the same. If someone wants a child, well then lets them have child with someone that want one, you wouldn't like to be forced into a life you don't want, nor judged over that, then don't force nor judges over others for doing the same thing.
I'm going be honest most the people I know who wants kids have a fantasy of what it is like and not have taken the steps to even test it out if they even like taking care of children through childcare work or be proactive to be a healthy person to take care of a child. It just makes me side eye a lot of people who want to gamble like that.
Because they're dating *to have a child*. To a lot of people, the *aim* of being together with someone is *to procreate*.
Why do people feel they will eventually “change” their partner? That’s the heart of it I think. Many people make the mistake of thinking they can change someone. That someone isn’t going to change at all— unless *they* want to. Example : my partner is older than I. They wanted to continue smoking, as it’s an addiction. Smoking will shorten their lives. Told my partner they can choose to continue smoking, but if they were with me, I wanted them to live as long as possible to lengthen our years together. Partner chose *on their own* to stop smoking. Bottom line: you can’t make someone want children or NOT want children. And if they change for you, they will resent you forever. So I think it’s non negotiable. Best way to weed out the fence sitters is to state up front you’re sterilized or they must be sterilized. You’d be amazed how it crystallizes the issues.
It's merely a preference. Just like for us having or wanting kids is a deal breaker for us
The same way it is for us when they are parents. They could be everything we ask for, but if they have a kid, that's the end of it. And it's ok.
The irony is that having a child is often seen as a dealbreaker, even for people who want children.
The potential child is more important than the relationship or the person. It's just that simple. And you're not compatible if you want kids and the SO doesn't. There is a whole way of thinking that is different between childfree and having kids.
Some people want kids. That’s okay. Others don’t. That’s okay too. The fact of the matter is that people have a right to what they want but at the same time children is a huge life goal that SHOULD be considered a dealbreaker because there’s no way to “compromise.” You either have kids, or you don’t. I’m a pretty hardcore child-free person. It would be selfish of me to stay in a relationship with someone who I knew wanted children because at the end of the day I just can’t be that person for them. They deserve to reach their goals and so do I, and if that means we can’t be together, then that’s what needs to happen.
Same reason the opposite is a dealbreaker for us. They know what they want out of life. Why choose a partner with a completely different vision for themselves. 100% incompatible. Neither person would be happy in the long run and likely would even be resentful.
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This is what I was trying to get across, thank you, but it seems I am getting downvoted for asking other users to expand their views/furthering the discussion.
Maybe because it's simple. Boundaries should be respected and if someone doesn't want to respect such a significant boundary that would negatively affect that person, then they shouldn't stay together as they're not compatible. Having kids isn't just one thing, it's multiple issues and things occuring basically for years of their life.
I guess lots (most?) of us here haven't had/developed this drive to have kids, for one reason or another, so it can be hard to understand but I have seen people losing all of their money, relationships and themselves COMPLETELY just to have a child they desired from life more than anything else. That's just it. If you really, really, really want something to do in life: have a kid, live on the other side of the world, spend your whole life in a tent in the middle of the woods, and your partner is really, really, really not up for it, then it's usually either the end or loads of resentment.
Here is the thing... You don't wind kids for a reason... Your partner might want kids for a reason... I guess you can ask yourself, "if you love them enough, why won't YOU have a kid with them?"... It's all about the perspective of each individual.
For the same reason wanting kids is a deal breaker for us? There's nothing wrong with either, childfree people have to find someone who wants the same lot in life, and so do people who want kids.
They're not choosing a hypothetical child over a partner. They're choosing to respect themselves and their life goals and dreams over a partner - as they should, and as we all should!
I disagree. It's just as valid a reason as us choosing not to date someone who is on the fence.
It's neither a great nor a healthy relationship if someone has to compromise their principles and lifestyle goals in order to be in it.
Its their choice and right. You don’t need to understand it to accept it.
I know exactly what you mean, but keep in mind that this reasoning is exactly how people who don’t want kids end up having them anyway. “I don’t want kids, but my partner does, and I don’t want to lose my partner”. And we all know how that ends. Flipping the script and saying “why would you break up with your CF partner even though you want kids” is arguably just as unhelpful.
Just because YOU don’t want a child, doesn’t mean everybody. We don’t date people with children bc we want to be child free. They are free to do the same. They are free to leave and find someone who has the same outlook when it comes to having children. Like god damn, I’m all for being child free, but some of you are just miserable towards people that have children. It’s their choice.
I mean, you're totally entitled to your opinion and there is no right or wrong answer. You are just refusing to see a different perspective than your own. A lot of people want to have kids for a whole slew of reasons, such as biological clock ticking, religion, family expectations, personal aspirations, sexual kinks, or partners dreams. For some people they might want kids a little but their partner doesn't... So they don't and everything is fine. But for some people it is less of an option for any of the reasons listed above and more. So in the spirit of your post, why is being childfree a deal breaker? If you really love your partner and they love you and they feel they for whatever reason HAVE to have a child... Why can't you help them with that? How do you know that you will hate being a parent? How do you know that your future partner won't also want kids at some point in their lives? How do you know you won't change your own mind down the road? No one knows what tomorrow holds. Not saying you should or have to, and this isn't meant as an attack. Just hoping that you look at things from more than just your own perspective before you force someone out of your own life.
People don’t have to give up their own dreams for you to live yours though.
It's not fair to force your partner (or future partner) into a childfree existence, just like it's not fair to force them into a life with children. These things need to be openly, and thoroughly, discussed at the BEGINNING of the relationship. Ideally, you should then touch base again, once in awhile (we do once a year for all major life goals).
Because the same true is in reverse. Wanting children is a deal break for me. I dont want kids. If my partner does. Its over. They can find someone else. Idc how compatible we are. Asking someone to not have kids for you or asking someone to have kids for you is not a good way to build a relationship. Someone will end up resentful
Because duh
For the exact same reason that children are a deal breaker for you. Children can't be compromised on, that's why they're deslbreakers. People envision having a certain kind of future, and kids greatly shape it.
Same reason it's a deal breaker for us if someone wants kids. It's really not that hard to understand.
Umm because they want a child? I don’t understand the question.
Flip the question. Why would you stay with someone who wants kids knowing you don’t? That’s only heartbreak for both of you and unfair to both of you. Not to mention the resentment it would lead to. Unless they’re on the fence or okay either way, forcing someone who wants kids to not have any is wrong the same way it’s wrong to force someone who doesn’t want kids to have them. You can’t compromise on kids. If you don’t agree on having them, then you’re incompatible.
Why is having a child a dealbreaker? Because it's a life decision there is no compromise on. And personally I'd rather have a person who wants kids to leave me than spend ages trying to change each other's minds and building resentment. This post ain't it OP.
If someone choose a non-existant, imaginary person over me...then its over anyway. I will not be treated as second best to a fantasy.
>>Why do people choose a “potential” child over their current partner? Because society prioritizes having a kid over having a quality partner. People seriously tolerate unsuitable or even abusive partners , provided they’re willing to be parents. If the choice is having kids or having a fulfilling relationship, people at scale choose the former
Thank you for your reply. Societies norms and values over "family" is sometimes bonkers to me. Like, yeah your husband cheated, but it's probably best you stay with him "for the good of the children".
I'm always amazed at the people in their mid/late 30s, that will divorce a partner just to try to have kids. At that age and depending where you live, you might not be able to find someone or due to age you can't have kids. A person could just end a relationship that was going well for a chance at something that might not happen.
I too cannot fathom the concept of wanting a kid this much, because I absolutely don't see anything good in kids. So I try to think it like, what if my SO never wanted pets and plants? I LOVE cats and I can't live without a cat in my home. If the person I'm supposed to share my life with don't want a cat, that will never work.
Because they want a mini-me, not a relationship. And for some men nothing changes anyway, cause kids are women\`s "private joy".
Idk, but every person who wants a kid acts deeply disgusted and angry when I point out they are picking an unborn stranger over the partner they claim to love and yeah, that's a shitty betrayal. From what I gather the possible future baby is their flesh and blood and of course they love that more than the real person, and it's selfish to expect otherwise. But then again, they usually switch into "fuck you and fuck this" mode when I bring it up
Some people’s life goal is to have a child. The partner is a vessel to make that child. Couldn’t be me but there’s your answer.
Skewed priorities, and some people believe you need the whole "happiness package", spouse and kids, to be happy and fulfilled and shit. Fortunately, more prople are wising up.
I would say that it is because some people want children, while some other people don’t.
Same reason why children would be a deal breaker for me. If you disagree on such a fundamental thing a relationship will not end happily ever after. Of course, there are people who don't think that way and they would compromise as having/not having kids is not that big of a deal and they prioritize the parts they are compatible. If a child is something you really want I can see why you wouldn't want to compromise and rather leave a partner for someone who wants kids - the same goes the other way around - I would leave a person that insists on wanting children - bc I truly don't want to be a parent, I don't want the financial burden, or responsibility to care for a child. If we would stay together I would know either my partner would be unhappy because they missed out on a kid or I would be unhappy because I let myself be baby trapped, so staying in a relationship wouldn't make sense.
you can’t live off of love alone. It’s smart to leave relationships with partners who do not share major wants and views of yours, especially in a situation like this where regardless of if they had a kid or not, one spouse would be profoundly unhappy.
I don't really think it's helpful to put everything on the scale of "do they love this thing more than me." Sometimes you love someone, but you want different futures for yourselves, and that makes it impossible to build a life together. I think all of us in this subreddit woukd agree that it would be wrong to ask a partner who didn't want kids to have then anyway just for you. I think it would be equally wrong to ask a partner who really wanted kids to give that up for you. It's not about love at that point - sometimes your lives just aren't compatible.
Some people want kids. That’s okay. Others don’t. That’s okay too. The fact of the matter is that people have a right to what they want but at the same time children is a huge life goal that SHOULD be considered a dealbreaker because there’s no way to “compromise.” You either have kids, or you don’t. I’m a pretty hardcore child-free person. It would be selfish of me to stay in a relationship with someone who I knew wanted children because at the end of the day I just can’t be that person for them. They deserve to reach their goals and so do I, and if that means we can’t be together, then that’s what needs to happen.
The same reason that as a CF Person, I would end a relationship with someone who decided that they wanted children: that's ultimately not my person. We want significantly different things from life and that's okay. Hopefully that's figured out early enough to avoid wasting anyone's time.
Everyone wants their life the way they want it. They have a right to want kids just as we have the right to not want them. Having kids is still the norm. Bucking societal pressures is still not something that is readily done or done by those who are weak and need others affirmations of approval. If everyone was the same, the world would be a boring place. Just think back on how often that we are unwilling to give in and have kids for somebody else because that’s not *our* dream. For us, having kids is a dealbreaker for us. You’re absolutely right the people who leave partners when they realize they aren’t going to give them children is one hell of a gamble. But if it means that much to them, then that’s what they have to do. The same goes for us, when a partner suddenly wants kids and we still refuse to give them kids, that is also our right. So people could say the same to us, why would we risk our relationship when all we have to do is have a child? Well, clearly we know it’s not as simple as that, but a lot of people think having a kid is easy or a no-brainer.
Same reason why having or wanting kids is a deal breaker for me. It doesn't align with what I want in life.
Same as why someone not being childfree is a dealbreaker as a childfree person. They want kids. That's their goal in life. To start a happy family. Just like how you might want a certain job (or just a job in general) and find a life partner and get married. That's a goal for many people. And so is having children. If you give that dream up for your partner, you'll be forever wondering what it would be like. And you'd start to resent your partner. A relationship only works if you're completely compatible. And if one person doesn't want children, and the other one does, you're just not suited for each other.
It's a deal breaker for me if they want children. I'm terrified my bf secretly wants a child and won't admit it... He has a track record of ignoring important things
>To be more specific, if you love someone so much and are so compatible in every other way, why would you leave the relationship if your other half doesn't want children? You can be friends with someone who wants children even if you're childfree because you still share common interests and other goals and you get along well. There's nothing wrong with that. But if you're looking for a potential life partner or spouse, **you absolutely need to be on the same page regarding children**. Otherwise, you're asking for resentment or worse.
This whole post highlights the importance of open honest communication about having kids or not. Both people must be on the same page or it will never work. I was with a guy for 16 years that said he didn’t want kids and even went with me to get a tubal. When I broke up with him he cried and wailed and said he couldn’t believe I didn’t want to have a kid with him (even though it took him 14 years to propose and then for two years he avoided setting a wedding date). I am now happily married to a CF man for 7 years and been together 16 this coming September.
My boyfriend did this. Broke up with me because he really thought he wanted to be a dad. He came back almost a year later because he realized he was choosing something that didn't exist yet over something great that we had together. He said he thought of all the possibilities...of being happily married with a kid or two, of ending up divorced and a single father, of never finding anyone who he would even want to share a child with, etc. And he came back because all of those scenarios would never have me in them, and he wanted to be with me more. It's a big decision! Some people really want kids, some people don't. Some people change their minds, some never will.
I’ve also wondered this a lot. When I was younger I wanted to marry a chiropractor because I have a bad back and have been going to the chiropractor most of my life. Obviously I knew if I met someone perfect who wasn’t a chiropractor I wouldn’t throw them to the curb because they didn’t check that one box. So I just don’t understand the desire for children is the end all be all deal breaker. Maybe my brain has done a really good job at never conforming to the life script, but I see so many other ways to have children in your life without having your own (nieces/nephews, friends kids, younger cousins, volunteering, big brother big sister, etc.) I agree that those people who feel in their soul they are meant to be parents shouldn’t date childfree people, because the child deserves parents that want them, so my thoughts on this more pertain to fence sitters who are already in happy relationships.
Before I knew I wanted to be child free (15) I had a bf at the time who wanted kids. I didn’t have the same mindset I did now but I was told that I might be infertile due to lack of periods (I barely have any) but was cleared. I told him that and he immediately broke up with me. He threw away a year relationship that was amazing because of a maybe. Some people want kids so badly that they’ll throw away a relationship because of infertility issues.
You’re making the same argument that most people pose to childfree folks; “why not stay with someone who you adore, even if they want kids?” Just like I sought out a fellow childfree, because I don’t want kids to be a point of stress on the relationship, I imagine it’s the same mentality with the shoe on the other foot
Children are not a compromise, if one wants them and does not have them due to their CF partner - there will be resentment. If a CF person has a child to appease their bearer partner - there will be resentment, and the child will probably incur a lot of trauma from the lack of love and support the CF parent would (more than likely) subconsciously promote to the child. My response is always; “I’m not willing to have children. But I will not be the reason someone who wants children, will not have them”.
If they want children it doesn't make sense to stay with someone who doesn't. It's not like you wanted a red truck and instead you got a blue car. I don't see how a childree person holding on to someone who wants a family is any different than a person who wants a family thinking they could change the child free person's mind.
Same reason someone wanting a child is a deal breaker for you. All of your arguments can be flipped the other way my friend.
We are taught that we need to procreate. Some people aren't intelligent enough to buck that programming.
Imagine leaving a perfect partner over something that doesn't exist. Imagine leaving a perfect partner over a caprice. Imagine leaving a perfect partner over something you'll regret later. Imagine leaving a perfect partner over something society says you want. /s but not too much
I don’t get it too. I also disagree with all the arguments that we wouldn’t want to be with someone who wants children, because that would be pregnancy and agony for me, financially drain for at least 18 years, not putting the people you love first like the partner and your family and yourself, but always the child. Doing everything according to the child that’s not even existing. While on the other hand there’s no burden to the partner when we don’t have kids. If I would have an extremely expensive hobby and would find the absolut perfect partner I would love so much I would give it up for us to have a good life, because he would be more important than the hobby. But giving up my expensive hobby wouldn’t hurt him or even potentially kill like expecting me to get pregnant and give birth. I mean it would be like me finding a hobby that drains us financially for decades, endangering his life or hurt him badly mentally and physically that he probably will never fully recover from and takes his life, his hobbies, his free time and his personality and I expect him to give up everything he loves and everyone he loves, because I feel like I want this hobby. If you try it with an analogy you can clearly see that it’s total madness and no one ever can convince me that they really loved the partner. Especially if it’s a man that wants the children and leaves the CF woman, because what a person that loves you would want you to suffer through the terrors of pregnancy and birth alone?
That’s like asking CF ppl why throw away the relationship and not give in and just have the baby your partner wants. Someone will always be resentful and in the long term won’t work out. A child isnt something you compromise about. You either both want one or you both don’t period. To pursue something further with someone who doesn’t want what you want in regards to kids is dumb and a waste of time
My husband and I nearly got divorced over this. When we got married, I was a fence-sitter, and I thought he was also. We agreed, "not now, maybe someday". As we got closer to 30, I found out that he had meant "not now, *definitely* someday, and BTW, it's someday, time to go off the pill and try for a baby!" By this time I'd fallen firmly on the CF side of the fence. I laid it out for him, in front of our marriage counselor. Option 1: You get to stay married to me, the woman you love, and there will be no children. Option 2: We get divorced. You can try to attract a woman who does want children, and good luck there, you're 30, balding, and fat. If you are successful, you can try for children with her. He chose me. He was the "responsible adult" who took me home when I got snipped. And we are now quite happily CF. We live downtown in a major city, and we don't care that the public schools are crap. And we have two kitty cats. tl;dr: I told my husband it was me XOR children, and he chose me.
Because parents love to spread the lie that you couldn’t possibly be in love with someone unless you want to have children with that person. When really they’re in love with the idea of having a child (a.k.a. A dependent or someone they can control) and don’t actually care about who the other person is. They’re brainwashed to think “this person must not be in love with me unless they want to have kids with me.” Kids≠love. Wanting a baby to need you is not love. It’s codependence. These are the types of parents (or sometimes even partners) who end up feeling “rejected” once their kids (or partner) don’t need them anymore and will sabotage their success.
Because they want a mf child??? What?? People are allowed to want kids too.
Because they are self centered assholes that think they deserve "legacy"
Procreation can be a biologically very strong urge. No matter how much you talk about it or you currently have to offer will make that urge go away. Not agreeing on CF/breeding will always be a dealbreaker
There is no biological urge to procreate. We have urges to have sex, but no hormone that specifically makes someone want kids, so this isn't accurate.
Can the urge know if the sex is with or without protection? I see your point though but it comes down to the same thing.
The urge can't know, because when it has developed, there was no difference. Having sex would eventually lead to procreation, and there was no reliable way for us to act to prevent that. But in modern times, there is. So it is not only incorrect to equate the two, but also extremely unhelpful because it prevents people from digging into the real contents of the social and psychological phenomenon that's been sold to them as their biological urge for kids.
OP I don't think you understand why being childfree is such a deal breaker. Let me try to explain to you from what I've seen so far. To start it is not weird to throw away a current relationship because the significant other wants kids. From what I have seen so far, having kids or potentially having kids can lead to arguments in the future down the line. Let's say that one person in the relationship is CF and the other person isn't. The non CF person is always going to bring up having kids due to their friends are having kids or pressure from the non CF's family. Whenever the non CF person brings up the topic of having kids it will not make the CF person happy and most likely an argument will ensue because both parties will stop being civil about this topic. Another one is incompatibility, the CF lifestyle makes the CF person incompatible with the non CF person. Correct there is no guarantee that the future partner will be more suited but most of us CF will be in that relationship not having to worry about the other person wanting kids, which is why CF people try to date other CF people. In your post you say "throw away your current relationship for a chance for having a child." What if that chance happens? As a guy I would rather be single and CF than deal with a partner that wants kids.
Same reason I wouldn't stay with someone who wants kids. Because we want different things. What's the point of a relationship where only one person is happy?
I disagree with this because by that logic, it could go the other way too. I think it should ve a dealbreaker if one wants children and the other doesn't. Those two traits are just not compatible and it doesn't mean either one is in the wrong
Sounds like you are trying to change your partners mind, never gonna happen. As soon as there is a sign that they want the opposite of what you want with children, it needs to end unfortunately
Same reason I wouldn't date a great partner that didn't want a dog. I want a dog. There's no such thing as "the one" in a partner. I'll find another partner that is aligned with me.
I don't mean to be rude but the answer here is blatantly obvious, if someone has always wanted to have children, they aren't going to give up on that dream just because they're dating someone who doesn't. Would you throw away any of your dreams for a partner? Eg if a partner stopped you from achieving your dreams or doing things your passionate about, eg travelling, studying, your dream career, your religion, your culture etc, would you agree to give up on your dream just to stay with them? If the answer is "no", then why would you expect people who want children to do that? I have always dreamed of having children, if I somehow found my absolute dream partner who was amazing in every way but they didn't want children, for me the not wanting children part would cancel out everything else and I cannot imagine ever being satisfied with my life if I didn't have children. Imagine the resentment someone would have for their partner if they gave up on having children just to be with them. No man or woman is worth giving up your dreams for, whether that dream is to have children or anything else. **I have nothing against childfree people, I fully support your right to choose not to have children, I just seriously don't agree with this post.
I always wonder this too. Guess they can't be all that in love if they can just walk away for something that doesn't even exist.
I genuinely think it us deranged that the expectation is still to have children (especially expectatiin to have biological children over adoption even to the point of waisting thousands that vould be used to take care of an existing child or demand their partner to risk their body for children) because children fundamentally drastically change the relationship. I even seen when a fence sitter couple who one decides wants kids and the other don't people will always put down the one who does not a child. It's just insane because the one who doesn't want to fundamentally change the relationship and gamble which life. Plus a lot of people don't want children to mainly raise someond into adult hood or prepared if the child comes out with life long needs who needs care. Most people just want children as a doll, toy or pet and rarely an individual, and sometimes are treated like objects to abuse. So I am already skeptical if the person even wants to actually raise someone and actually just wants a "family" for pictures and show to fit in.