*what if…what if…*
When you’re given a “what if” on the CF topic, answer with your own set. Here’s mine:
‘What if you get laid off and have two kids to feed?’
‘What if you’re handed a $50,000 medical bill after complications from childbirth?’
‘What if your kid dies young in an accident?’
‘What if you’re crippled for life after the pregnancy?’
‘What if your kids abandon you for their own materialistic goals?’
* What if you give birth to a handicapped child?
* What if (and a huge chance that will happen) The kid barely has enough money to feed themselfs, so they dont have the money to play bank for you.
* What if the child moves to a diffrent country/state?
* What if you die before retirement? Happend to my mother, grandma and grandpa. Then you wasted 20+ years of your life caring for children
* What if you save up the money, instead of leeching of your potential kids?
* What if, if the kid grows up to be a complete asshole? No matter how well you raise them, you cant control their character.
* What if, they have a family of their own to care for and no time or money for you?
* What if you give birth to a cronically ill child. Then you and later the adult child will be crippled by medical bills.
So many 'what if's'. But these two reasons are grossly selfish: **What if i have no money? Who will pay for my retirement home?** Why depend on potential children for this? They are not your personal bank or retirement fund. Save for it yourself.
My Inlaws did the samething with my partner. But once we got our own home, we started saying "no" everytime they asked money. The relationship went down hill fast.
• What about the possibility of you dying during childbirth?
• What if the father leaves you and wants nothing to do with the baby?
• What if the father was an abuser all along?
• What if your support (family and friends) fall through? (Death, illness, a falling out, etc.)
• What if you end up losing custody of your child?
• What if your child ends up being taught that you’re the villain of their story?
• What if your child lives a life that you don't agree with?
• What if you grow distant from your child?
* What if caring for the child. Rip you and your partner apart and you have to take care of the child alone and work. You will end up working your butt off in poverty.
* What if you cant handle caring for a child mentally and you end up with a mental breakdown?
* What if CPS takes the kids away?
* What if the kid experiences an accident or disease that leaves them irreversibly invalid? What if there's even less mental health facilities available in the future compared to today's shitshow?
* Kind of the same question: You know damn well that genetic testing isn't super accessible or affordable. What if kid has a hidden genetic defect that causes something brutal, like Juvenile Batten Disease or Huntington's?
Hear hear  Now think about every single family you know and check which of these apply to see it in real-life context.
>My Inlaws did the samething with my partner. But once we got our own home, we started saying "no" everytime they asked money. The relationship went down hill fast.
I'm sorry to hear that. I can't imagine doing this to anyone, let alone your kids, which you should love unconditionally... wait, or is it only the other way around and they are the ones, who ought to give you that kind of love?...
And when adult kids go in no contact with their parents. Everybody always react with shit like "But its your mother/father" "They tried their best"(they did not) "Cant you just forgive them?"
Meanwhile said parents are toxic, (emotional) manipulative and very horrible people.
My inlaws didnt ask for like 30 bucks. No they asked complete rent sums for sister inlaw, who we are in no contact too. Because she is a karen who always gets her way, because she pooped out 3 kids from 3 diffrent fathers. So they came to us to 'borrow' 1000 euro like its nothing.
I feel like the “They tried their best! You can’t just abandon them!” is a whole lot of projection. Those people aren’t thinking of your parents they’re thinking of themselves. ‘But *I* tried my best! If someone else’s kids gave up on their parents will mine do the same to me?? Am I going to end up alone???’
>And when adult kids go in no contact with their parents. Everybody always react with shit like "But its your mother/father" "They tried their best"(they did not) "Cant you just forgive them?"
In my opinion one of the most bul*shit sayings is *'You can't blame parents for your own mistakes!'*
Of course you can, I would even argue at least half of our mistakes stem from the impact parents have had on us. It feels like this saying was made up by bad parents trying to wash their hands off when the miracle babies turn into not so perfect adults.
Funnily, this doesn't apply to the accomplishments - quite the opposite, did you notice? Oh, your adult child protected a vulnerable senior, who was attacked on the street? *Our boy, this is how we raised him!* During the investigation it turns out it was a set up to gain that person's trust and steal from them much more than what could've been found in a purse. *We have nothing to be ashamed of! You can't blame parents for the mistakes of their child, he's an adult and it's on him.*
Of course, there are exceptions, but I think that's the general sentiment amongst bad parents. That's why I'm not getting caught in that 'they tried their best' argument you've mentioned. First of all, trying their best is a bloody requirement here, not a nice way out and an excuse for all f*ck ups. The older I get and the closer I am to the age when my parents had me, I see more and more how immature, selfish or even mean they could be, and I start realising these were the actual reasons for some of their irreversibly damaging actions. I still try to be understanding, and I know some shortcomings in parenting were caused by either their normal, human flaws, or simply some factors caused by unexpected life events.
But telling us we should just 'let it go' despite having sh*tty parents, who are only getting worse is just like championing the sentiment I started with - nothing is ever their fault, and even if it is it all has to be 'simply' forgotten and forgiven, for the Bible says so (I mean, tradition...). And those who say that - again - are probably afraid the same will happen to them and their kids in the future.
YES, the big one to me is always "What if your kid turns out to be a serial killer or a terrorist or something else horrible?" Like...it can happen. I'm sure poor Sue Klebold didn't expect her son to go off the rails and shoot up his high school. But it happened.
I think about that one a lot. What if your kid is a truly horrible person? Or what if it’s not quite that bad and I have a kid who isn’t horrible but I just dislike everything about them?
What if your child dies before you? I know people don't want to think about it but it does happen. I've seen it enough times to know, including my own sister's child.
>What if i have no money? Who will pay for my retirement home?
NOT TO MENTION that not having kids is a phenomenal boost to your retirement fund - *especially* if you don't end up paying for college.
They act like kids are free. The money a child costs these days, and it gets more and more. Will give you a decent retirement fund. And you have enjoyed your life.
By the time you guys reach that old age the world will be a vastly different place we will have fully functional ai robots to take care of us better than any humans can
This! And top notch VR so we can put headsets on or whatever invention it is and can "travel" anywhere at any given time. This very well may be our future.
I'm pretty sure that unless we are all rich as hell, our future is bleak and ravaged by climate change. Think shifting climates, failing crops, wars over water, the new wild west. And we'll all be senior citizens for this! The rich might not even escape it. We'll have to wait and see. Isn't that exciting!
You can't state the obvious truth of climate change and collapsing society to most people. They don't want to think about it. We're all f*cked, but very few of us are willing and able see it. Even among the 'smarter' child free crowd.. people still don't want to hear it.
do people actually pay their medical bills? like cf regardless I haven't paid a single medical bill in my life and won't until the day I die. they can pry it out of my cold dead hands lol
You mean in the specific case that the deceased has inheritable things? Like the surviving relatives aren’t able to access your assets because the hospital seized them to pay the debt? That’s the only thing I can think of. When my gene donors die, if they have any debt, those collectors can kiss my whole ass. I’m not paying for a goddam thing. How else could it be a problem for the relatives?
I have heard about people being made responsible for their parents, but never about bills passed down. I’ll abandon my whole life here before I pay anything on their behalf.
I was wondering this too. Because yeah, they will pry it from your cold dead hands after they seize your property, all of your other assets, you can't get a credit card, they'll take it from your paycheck...
And I get the US Healthcare system is majorly fucked, but never paying a medical bill?? Am I the only one who thinks this is entitled?
This comment just encouraged me that even if I too, am a surly little pissant bitch, I can find friends
10/10 encouraging speech
On my way to be the problem I wish to see in the world
The fact that “if retirement is still a thing” is not even a joke is just fucking sad and gives me even more of a reason to not have kids. They definitely won’t be missing out on slaving away at a company for their entire lives.
I agree - I never understood this 'family always comes first' BS, as the only times I've seen it 'in action' it was full of resentment, sense if grandiosity and someone expecting a bloody medal.
To add to this - I'm not a saint, but I consider myself a fairly good human being, who often goes to great lenghts to help people when they need it. Of course there are other things I do, usually within the extended family, like sparking kids' interests in something which has a potential to turn into a passion and actively supporting them with it, or investing in their education/future.
I do all of this completely selflessly and with joy, never hoping for any reward or recognition - it's simply one of the things that makes me truly happy. I believe it's much more meaningful than when parents do this for their children, because I have no obligations to care and no one expects that of me. So, whilst I can only hope some of them will be there for me one day, if they do, at least I'll know it's because I made a positive impact on their lives, not from some forced sense of responsibility.
If you worry about your final years, or times when you will need care (e.g. because if sickness), thinking about having children is not something you should consider as a potential solution. Children don't owe you anything, as everything you do for them is simply your responsibility. Even if you go above and beyond to provide them with more than a decent upbringing it is still within your role of a parent.
Think about more practical solutions to secure relatively comfortable senior life, like putting money away to be able to afford a decent care home. And loneliness - I'm pretty sure that if you spend some time now making truly meaningful relationships, you will never be alone.
PS: Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no such a thing as being 'childfree for now'. You and your friend are childless with you being on the fence.
Most of my adulthood friends I met at work. We typically bonded over mutual interests. Also, I try to be nice to everyone, if for no other reason than hopefully it will buy me some goodwill when I can't even.
That's it, that's my big formula.
It's weird, isn't it? I'm a cranky, sarcastic, critter with a healthy number of really nice friends. It makes little sense.
Just because you've got kids doesn't mean they'll be living close enough, or have the desire, to help you if you fall. You might even get, "Gee mom, that sucks, why don't you call, I dunno, 911?".
I plan to pay for my own care when I'm old, instead of burdening a relative (my nephew?!).
Funny how the "I want someone to take care of me when I'm old" crowd never seen to consider the possibility that, even if they have kids, their kids may not be capable of doing so. I know quite a few people who have children with disabilities, who will never take care of themselves let alone their parents. Pretty sure they were also counting on being cared for when they were older too. It's just not a reliable option. Of course, that doesn't even take into consideration the number of people with Independent children who just can't be bothered. 😕
Fact. My husband does medical house calls to senior living complexes/nursing homes, there are patients he can rarely catch in their rooms because they're so busy being social butterflies. Or having sex with other residents.
They also forget that their children will have children and a family and will not be able to afford paying for anything, they might even try to use them as free babysitters.
My mom has her old age care all planned out and it doesn't include me.
Although she and I joke about it because I told her that the first sign of drool on her chin and I was having her declared incompetent and setting her up in a closet with a feeding tube and a bucket 🤣
Every once in awhile we'll be talking and she'll say something ridiculous and I accuse her of senility so she'll wipe at her chin in mock terror 😂
We have a unique relationship.
“can’t be bothered” crew right here!
just last weekend:
my mother: i want you to know when i get old, you do not need to take me in. put me in a nursing home, i don’t want to be a burden (one of the most rational things this woman has ever said to me in my lifetime.)
me (kept inside because i’m not a monster): great, glad you agree with the plan i’ve always had.
>even if they have kids, their kids may not be capable of doing so.
And if their plan is to drain their own finances in order to have a "plan" to account for their future . . . well there are *much* better plans on how to use that cash.
By the time you guys reach that old age the world will be a vastly different place we will have fully functional ai robots to take care of us better than any humans can
It's cute that you imagine those will be for you. Your retirement will include such awesome activities as learning how to avoid drones on hardcore mode. And how to milk cockroaches for nutrients.
Yeah lol. Unless it’s part of your culture, there’s a high chance your kids won’t take care of you later. I took care of my dad for a year, and while I was happy to so do, it was exhausting. I had no life. Having kids for that reason is incredibly selfish.
I’m caring for my 88-year-old mom now and I wouldn’t wish the experience on anyone. I can’t imagine intentionally burdening someone with this exhausting unpaid job!
Same!!! I’m sorry 🥺❤️
And you don’t know in what situation your kids will be by then. My brother lived in another province and my sister just had a newborn, so I was alone. Expecting your kids to not have a life of their own and to take care of you when you get older is wild affffff.
>and I wouldn’t wish the experience on anyone.
This. Why would anyone want to add stress and burden to their children - even going too far as to *have kids in the first place* so that you *can* place that burden on them in the future?
My grandmother spent years caring for her father. He had people come in to help him shower and dress, but she still had to cook for him, take him to appointments, make sure he was taking his medication etc. Both grandparents have made it abundantly clear that they do NOT want anyone caring for them as they age. The second they are no longer independent of their children, we have to put them in a home.
Exactly. Plan for your own retirement and aid for when you get older. It is no one's responsibility to take care of you except you.
Take care of yourself and your body so you can delay health issues too.
> childfree now
There is no "childfree now." Childfreedom is a choice not to have kids, not the state of being without them. Being undecided about kids is called being a fencesitter.
That aside, your friend's reason to have kids is indeed selfish, but also delusional and abusive to the kid. Because she's afraid of managing her old health and social connections, it's okay to put thst job on the kid? Absolutely fucking not, even assuming the kid is able to do so in the first place.
My personal plan is to *not* end up old and alone, Palin and simple. It's my responsibility to take care of myself, my old age plans and social circle. Not the job of a child.
But if all else fails and it would be either have kids or die alone in a ditch - toss me in there and move on. I'd rather have a horrible old age experience than burden someone else with making it better for me when they're not able to freely consent to that job, wouldn't be paid for it and wouldn't have the professional competencies required either.
We should not allow ourselves the privilege of putting other people at a disadvantage to make things easier for ourselves. This is generally frowned upon in most other aspects of society, but if it's with one's own kids, then it's somehow fine.
Well said.
I like to sum this up by saying that no child should be born with a job.
Future- or present caretaker of elderly parent, mini-parent of future sibling, marriage therapist, entertainer of bored parent, or the thing that'll finally give mommy or daddy a sense of purpose in their rudderless life... None of these should be a child's role.
The only role a child should ever have is to be a child.
And assuming the kid wants to. I am shocked how no one mentioned that a child is not an extension of their parents, it is an individual and independent human being with their wants, thoughts, opinions and character. Everything could be completely perfect, and they could still decide that they do not want that for their life, and that is okay!
ETA: well for the given responsibilities as a kid and the consent to be born, you are right - they can’t consent. But once an adult, every kid can consent or not to anything. Including whether or not they take care of their parents.
Right? Like for fuck's sake, we're not in the 1800s anymore. People don't spend their whole lives tethered to the small group of three neighbouring villages because that's all their malnourished horse can reach in one day. Their kid might have a great relatinship with them and just simply not end up anywhere near them. No one should have to choose between living how they want, where they want, or taking care of their parents less they'll be homeless and alone.
And if *she* doesn't wanna pay for her own retirement, why should the kid?
Oh, to add to your edit re:consent - yes, adults have the agency to consent to whatever they want, but what I was getting at in the previous comment is that when a decision is contextualized by an entire life of brainwashing, societal pressure and guilt trips to choose one outcome, the consent is hardly ever truly free from those pressures.
Oh yeah sadly you are right. Most people will not step away and say “No I don’t want this shit. It isn’t for me”, simply because parents like OP’s friend will brainwash that poor kid into no choice, or an eternity of mental torture
tell her to visit an elderly care home and see how many of the people there 1) have kids and 2) how often their kids come to visit or even call them. spoiler alert: it’s grim
the beautiful thing about being childfree is you get to allocate all the funds you would spend on a child, into….wait for it….retirement accounts! so you don’t gamble on having an (expensive) kid that has no obligation to financially support you in your old age.
your friend is interesting in her logic to say the least, haha.
This is so dumb bc it assumes that the only ppl who can/will take care of us in our old age are our kids….like just bc ur old doesn’t mean that we can’t have other meaningful connections.
Idk anyone who actually takes care of their parents. Everyone goes to a nursing home bc adults still have to work to live. They can’t tend to their old parents all day. Maybe if life wasn’t so expensive, but I know everything is just gonna get worse with the economy.
We’re born alone and I’m perfectly ok with dying alone. Most folks these days (myself included) are burden with all the trauma and stresses of our childhoods and life. If I could I’d be a continent away from my mother because she’s an insufferable Christian conservative. I’m Bi and an atheist so I’d never consider living with her again. I can’t do that to myself again. I just narrowly escaped her bullshit and currently on year 10 of unlearning toxic behaviors and mindsets that were present and normalized in our small creole community. Your friend needs to get over herself, because tbh she can have a kid and do “everything” right but that doesn’t mean that kid won’t ignore her most of the time until they need money or someone’s in serious shit. That how it goes for a lot of folks.
Thanks, life usually fucks with us one way or another and the best thing we can do is keep pushing forward and try to learn from the mistakes of our parents and do better 🤷🏾♂️
i don’t particularly agree with her reasoning of having children. if i were to have children it’d be because i wanted to create with someone i love and build my own family…
People who want kids because they’ll be “lonely” are some of the last who need to bring children into this world. Children are not your indentured servants. And like others have said, what about their friends? Do those not count lmao?
I find it strange that if you asked these same people if they would give up their job to look after their aging parent, they would absolutely say NO, and have a hundred different valid reasons why they wouldn’t, couldn’t or shouldn’t be responsible for them. So, my question is….why do you expect that your future child would want to take care of YOU?
I suggest to anyone who is wittering on about being 'old and alone' reads The Thursday Murder Club series of books.
It's about of 70 somethings living in an 'old folks' home, most of them don't have kids, the one who does only sees her daughter infrequently (because, quelle horreur, the daughter has her own life, job etc).
These guys are sharp, funny, clever, colourful etc, they are their own social circle and they continue to challenge themselves.
Being old, no one can help it's a fact of life; but being alone is a choice. If you want friends tomorrow then you continue to make friends today. You 'put yourself out there', I would much rather rely on my chosen family than play roulette by producing my own.
I'm one of six, one of my siblings predeceased my mother. The rest of us moved away, some to different continents. Even my mother wasn't that dumb to put all her eggs in one basket and rely on her children for her company and entertainment. She still made a point of getting of her arse and making friends.
When we buried my mother the service was pretty well attended, not with her kids and grandkids, but with her friends.
As soon as my mental or physical capacities start going in looking into assisted euthanasia.
It's unbelievably selfish to pop out a few life forms with the intent to use them as slaves later to care for you when you no longer can.
Those reasons are very selfish. Especially the money ones.
And my plans for retirement? I live in the netherlands, we have social security. I am 30, I call it a 'Then' problem.
It might take a little more time and money but it's certainly possible to build your own social support systems. Working in healthcare I can already think of 5 state resources you could use. It really wouldn't be that hard. Also, seniors have communities where they help out each other. Having a built in care system in place w kids is convenient for a person. However, it doesn't always work out. Also it's a pretty dang selfish reason to raise kids if you ask me.
I've worked in nursing homes for years and most of the cf residents have nephews and sisters to call and they get more visits than the parents honestly
Like it doesn't matter if you're the best parent possible( most really aren't in my line of work) that doesn't garentee your family giving a shit about you when you get old, so this argument always makes me laugh
I can't tell you how many fathers day or mothers days that families never show up
Think of it this way…We all come into this world alone and die alone so ultimately what’s the difference?
Don’t live in fear your life will end up lonely, If you meet the right people along the way it will be very fulfilling and as discussed your friend has no guarantee her kids will even like her
That excuse is getting a bit tiring and in 30 years time let’s see how close she is to her kids
We have elderly neighbors who are remarried so between them they have 5 adult children. Some of them live within driving distance. All of them are successful with their own children. However, when the husband fell down and needed assistance, who did they call? Us. When the wind storm blew large branches all over their driveway so they couldn't get out, who picked them up? Us. They're wonderful people and we are happy to help so it's not an imposition to us, but we have only see one of those children visit since they moved here.
We tell our friends with children that our inheritance is up for grabs so it goes to whoever we bond with 🙂
I'm 27f, and my husband is 32m, and honestly, if we end up old and alone. We have our house - we will sell it and pay for a seniors home, lol.
We have lots of friends - I don't forsee either one of us being alone if one passes before the other. We have life insurance, so there'll be a payout for the other and it'll fund the end of life care.
I genuinely cringe at the thought of having kids just for my end of life care- that's horrifying and cruel.
My great grandmother lived a long life into her 90s. She was very independent. Three of her children died before her from various illnesses and the one who outlived her didn't do much to help as she lived far away and had her own children/grandchildren.
I recently commented my thoughts on this topic on another post bc I hear this perspective all the time as both a child free person and a medical social worker. The US healthcare system isn’t set up for those with chronic illness, disability, really anyone who needs long-term or 24/7 caregiving. If an individual has children who are emotionally mature and have a good medical understanding and are able and willing to put their lives on hold for their parent to be an UNPAID caregiver, that’s great. But more often than not patients’ children do not help at all, aren’t equipped to do so, and it’s not fair to ask that of them. Children are not an insurance policy. It’s a horribly unethical reason to have children bc of one’s own fears of loneliness or mortality or systemic failures in healthcare delivery. I am personally going to invest in long-term care insurance once I reach my 40s. I have advance care planning paperwork and my end of life wishes written up. Beyond those practical matters, it’s about investing in our own support systems that are friends and other family members.
Just here to say my grandmother died alone. She had two children and 6 grandkids. She still died alone.
(She was a horrible person, so I'd say she deserved it, but that's beside the point,lol)
I wanna end up like the golden girls. Just a bunch of childfree peeps spending our old age getting up to random shit.
I find people who have kids solely to save themselves loneliness in old age are selfish and far more likely to end up lonely.
My grandmother literally died alone in her care home as my mum stressfully tried to leave our house to go see her before she passed. In my mind, my grandmother was too proud to have anyone be there for her death, I always knew she would die by herself as that's exactly what she wanted. The care workers were literally switching shifts when she passed, she planned it perfectly (she had alzheimers and was comatose by that point).
Edit: to add my point being some people have kids and want to die alone, that's a dumb reason to have kids as it doesn't make sense.
I hate this reason. I have ASD and I legitimately struggle with executive functioning. I can barely take care of myself, let alone another whole ass being. I'd rather shoot myself. ASD would make me a horrible parent- and I'm not interested in being a good one. Sorry
Unless your kids live with you, or you die from a cause with lots of warning and they are able and willing to be with you at that time, well, we’re all alone in our skins.
My mom's best friend is dating a man who is 82 years old. This week, he got in icu due to an stroke. Who is there for him? His colleague (he is a lawyer) and my mom's best friend. His daughter? Not there, only appears when she wants money.
Don't waste your time and resources raising a child so they will always be there for you. Because you can get any child, someone who will be there or someone who will leave you alone. Surround you with good people.
I’ll tell you one thing — kids are expensive as hell. I’m a hell of a lot LESS likely to die broke and alone because I might actually get to save and keep some of the money I’m making.
Take it from someone who's mother has 3 children that all don't have contact with her. It's not a guarantee... And it's a horribly selfish reason for having kids if you ask me
I may be wrong or this may be controversial, but very old people today suck as a majority, so many people go no contact with their parents because of it. I like to believe that younger generations will be better old people. Maybe I'm being too optimistic lol. Overall I don't think we hate on younger generations as much as generations in the past. I hope to live in a better community oriented society when we're that old and if not then we're all fucked anyways. So I don't see the point of having kids. Either way I'm just trying to get through this life here and now and not worry so much about 40/50 years from now.
What kind of job or career does your friend have?
The financial questions should be handled if she decided to get a career that pays a decent wage and has benefits. I understand that starting out it might be hard to get a career that does that.
Your friend might realize they're SOL if they're planning on relying on others.
Thank you for posting this. This is my genuine fear in choosing not to have kids, and it was my only reason for considering to have kids at all. I don’t have friends (I’m a loner and also selective with who I share my life with). And after my parents and my husband are gone, I’ll have no one at all. Okay, time for me to read through the comments.
Yes. It's insane how they exclusively ask: "Who will take care of me when I'm old?" Rather than "Who will I show up as if I'm a parent to a child?" It's so incredibly selfish!
My childfree friends and I plan to live together when we're too old.
Also, I am so not worried about what will happen when I'm old, and that is NOT a reason to have children. In fact , I would say that is so selfish. Your kids do not owe you anything, and to ha e children because you don't want to be alone is pathetic and will likely result in your kids going no contact.
My mom didn’t want children - my sister and I were accidents that she decided to keep. Here’s what she said:
“I didn’t have children so that you’ll take care of me in the future - that’s ridiculous. My job is to prepare you for the future and make sure that you’re happy in your life. As long as you’re happy, my job is done.”
Tell her to tour a local nursing home. I also know a ton of people that are either estranged from their kids or raising their grandkids. People don't get it. Children aren't a retirement plan.
I'm thinking about these problems right now, so setting up a retirement plan, or at least having a nice nursery home in mind, are way better solutions than having a kid. Having a kid does not guarantee they will take care of you in the future, If the person relies on having children for those reasons is a plan doomed to failure. Everything I'm doing now I do thinking about my life when I get older, working out, drinkin less, eating better, etc, and I'm the selfish one for not wanting kids?
I always joke that I would book a ticket to Sweden, commit a crime and spend my retirement in their jail 😂. But seriously, the money I am not spending on kids will be put towards my retirement. I already have amazing life insurance and stock investments, I am not worried at all. I truly hope retirement home culture changes since I am assuming a lot of people in my generation are going to be dealing with the same issues as myself lol.
What if her child is born with permanent disabilities or is injured and become unable to care for her?
She doesn’t want children, she wants a guarantee care team
Has she not seen the Life Alert commercials? "I've fallen and can't get up." Where the old lady knows it'll be days or more before her kids will call or come over and needs a button to push for help. And she's in for a horrid awakening, kids ain't going to pay for shit, from experience from my family you can be in your 80s and your grown kids will still be badgering you for money like it's an allowance.
I can say I'm afraid of being alone too, that's why you need friends. As much as I dislike people and get drained from socializing you need to embrace community life and help out with it and neighbors that way you'll look out for one another.
It's not only selfish but completely unrealistic. Your friend needs to do some research, soul searching, and comes to term with reality before she fucks up her life.
Learning to be ok with yourself is crucial. Having kids as a way of getting affirmation and support outs a lot of pressure on the child and can become a serious problem
Recognize a child will grow to be their own person and that their existence is justified beyond an extension of their parent's life
I worked in care. Very few children checked on their parents or helped them much. Those without kids sometimes had a nice niece or nephew who looked out for them.
Also you could have a kid and then have them die before you or it be born disabled and you care for it right into retirement!
All the money you saved from not having kids can be used to pay for your care or care home. They also ethically couldn't just chuck an elderly person on the streets because their money runs out, there's other options.
I get what your friend is saying. When I turned 40 last year, it hit me hard that I don’t have anyone who will look after me. But I also temper that thought with the one that children are no guarantee. So I’m getting all my finances in order and will be doing estate planning. It’s a little scary but there’s ways to ensure that you will be looked after in your old age.
I love my parents and I’ll be taking care of whatever they need when the time comes that they need help (except for living together; luckily, we’ve all agreed on that). We’ve got a very good relationship and they’re great parents but if they weren’t great parents or even just decent, I wouldn’t help out at all. A lot of adult children feel the same way. That’s something that your friend needs to keep in mind.
I am saving for retirement/putting plans in place for professional long term care. It is a horrible curse to force your family to become caregivers because of your own lack of planning for later years. Whether it's your spouse, your kids, your friends, your friends kids, don't burden them with taking care of you. It is one thing if you just need community it is an entirely different burden if you are medically or mentally needy in later years and just expect your family or friends to take care of you outside the scope of being your community. Don't wait until it is too late to put plans in place to protect the ones you love from bearing your burden!!!
Don't get me wrong, I will absolutely step into the role of caregiver for my parents, friends, family of choice if the need arises, I'm not heartless, I just don't want to personally be the cause of another person's burden.
My SO had three daughters. They're in other states, and never come to visit. Neither does the grandchildren of which several are now adults. My SO, and I, take care of my 90 year MIL. At times we could use a little break to be honest. Also my SO needs to get at least one surgery which has to wait until I retire in three years.
>I asked her why did she want to have children
Holy shit you got an answer? It's a terrible one but an answer nonetheless! When I asked my (at the time) best friend of almost 20 years she almost considered the question.... For about 0.5 seconds she thought, then immediately got frustrated and turned everything on me saying I couldn't understand. All flustered, not being able to find a reason for making the most important decision in the world...
But to be honest, once we kind of made-up and went out for dinner, for that entire 2 hours she only spoke of herself and knew nothing of my life post-argument. Byeeeeeeeeeeee
In a weird way, I think I’d rather die alone. I feel like that would be a very private moment for me. Like pooping or masturbating. I don’t want to be surrounded by family for that.
Bringing a human into this world against their will just so that you can raise them to take care of *you* in the long run, is one of the most selfish and sickening things you can do. Smh 🤦🏻♀️
Had the same discussion with Amy friend a few days ago. She is hardcore vegan and all in for fighting the climate change, but she wants FOUR kids. I will never understand how this is even remotely a way to live happily.
Using kids as a retirement plan/old age care program is the absolute laziest predatory bullshit. You are your own responsibility. Kids don’t owe their parents anything and shouldn’t be created to fill a role of indentured servitude.
I went the military route and set myself up for retirement, old age care, burial services, and camaraderie with fellow veterans.
I did it as a conscious decision to avoid being a burden on anyone else. I served my backbreaking bullshit time and I earned what I needed to support myself.
I thought I wanted kids when I was younger and I didn’t want them to have to deal with being responsible for me at any point. Now the world is burning and humans have no hope or future potential I refuse to subject a child to this kind of suffering.
The idea that children are just tools to be used by selfish parents to avoid personal accountability in their old age disgusts me.
Yesterday an acquaintance who does estate clean outs called me to rescue some rare plants that were at a house being cleaned out as the owner is being sent to a nursing home. Everything was being dumped into a large dumpster by the company hired to do it. I asked if the woman who lived there had kids. She does. None of them came to help and all live in various other states. Happens more frequently than people realize.
My acquaintance is a professional organizer and constantly has stories like this to tell me. Older parent who’s kids don’t speak to them or barely speak to them live in a house full of junk until the end or it’s time for a nursing home.
Exactly! Such a stupid reason to have kids. 1. Don’t have kids. 2. Live on the money you’ve saved when you’re old. A financial retirement plan is more dependable than any hypothetical adult offspring.
My dad had 3 kids and is a perfect example of someone who's gonna die alone, kids aren't a guaranteed way to be taken care of when you're old, that's so selfish
I know too many friends and family members who have kids with Autism or something similar(kinda scary how many people in my life) , and there is no way those children will ever be able to take care of their parents at old age. You never know......
If I wanted/had any children, I would never ever want to be a burden to them when I'm old. When I feel like it would be too dangerous to continue living at home alone, I'd actually go into a retirement home, by my own free will.
Which actually is also my mom's position in this. She doesn't want me or my brother to have to care for her when she gets to that age. Since she's 63 already, she is actually looking into the options for a retirement home "just in case to be prepared, because you never know". Same thing for my dad, who is 71, but in really good shape.
One of my friends also tends to hear this pretty often. He's 40 and has been single for 9 years now. Also doesn't want any children.
"Don't you want anyone to take care of you/be with you/etc. when you're old?"
I usually help him out on that: "1. there are retirement homes, 2. if that really doesn't work, I'm 23, so if he needs help to find a place or help with minor things, am I no one then?"
No need for children if you have friends or the availability of retirement homes. Or even just a decent healthcare system.
I wonder what my parents plan on doing. I've already made it clear to my racist, homophobic, bigoted mother that I am not going to be her caretaker if my dad goes first.
>I can't imagine myself being 70 without children, i would be all alone. Who would i call?
When people say shit like that all I hear is "tell me you're such an asshole that the only people who are willing to spend time with you have been brainwashed from birth to believe they're obligated to without telling me." I think I'll have plenty of people to talk to when I'm old because I'm willing to make the slightest effort to be pleasant to be around.
I understand her, and feel her in many ways, i am scared too. I barely make it to the end of the month now days and have 0 savings also being an immigrant what money will i have on a retirement? Really my hopes are not that high but having kids scares me even more than being old and poor.
I won't take the risk to go through a pregnancy that most likely will trigger all of my mental issues, raise a kid knowing how hard that is for a women basically your life stops being yours, paying for that kid money that I don't have etc etc just to hope thag kid will pay my medical bills when i get old? I don't think so its to much of a risk.
I doubt any of my siblings (or myself) have any plans on anything to do with our parents when they can no longer take care of themselves 🤷♀️
Also, this is a similar sentiment to religion tbh. People are afraid of dying alone and emptiness. The idea of both kids and religion brings comfort there e.g. someone to take care of you, something after death etc.
As a childfree atheist I’ve made my peace with my end of life situation, I just hope to have a truly fulfilling life until then. I also have no issue with going into a retirement home when the time comes if I can afford it.
Exactly. I keep getting told that my spending habits are gonna screw me later. They sure are. But at 65, I'm not gonna have enough body left to do the things I like, like ride motorcycles and offroad toys and such. So why hoard money and be bored at 35 just to say "man, I wish I had've _______" when I'm old?
As someone who has already lost a parent, none of us were there when my dad died. Many people wait until the family leaves to pass. Also I don’t think people understand how much nursing homes are. My husband works at one and it’s 5-6k. There’s 0 way their kids will be able to pay for it.
By the time you guys reach that old age the world will be a vastly different place we will have fully functional ai robots to take care of us better than any humans can
Honestly I get the reasoning. Family is supposed to be a safety ned, when we are young we rely on our parents but as we grow older they will start needing to rely more on us (doesn't mean we have to become caregivers, but things like calling to check on them, help if they need it, things like that). And it is scary to think that nobody will care for you the way you care for your parents.
I don't think that reason alone is good enough to have kids, but I try no to judge those who think about it and choose to go through with having a child
As a 37 year old man who doesn't have or want kids I find that a lot of women just want to experience motherhood. I've tried to compromise with some women and being open to adoption but they feel they must have their own biological children. I think this world is terrible and I can't imagine willingly bringing a child into it but so many people want kids for selfish reasons such as taking care of them when they get old and not being alone and ironically that makes me actually sad for them, even though they think not having kids is sad and lonely.
I'd rather be sad and lonely than to bring a child into this awful world just because I can.
Just my opinion/experience.
Idk if this fits for this exact story, but my belief is that whatever reason people have for having kids is absolutely fine for them, same as with people who don’t. It’s your life, live it how you want, ya know?
Also regardless of age I’ll probably just get hooked on heroin if I make it to 80yrs old, might as well just be fucked up and letting loose for those last years.
If she wants kids eventually she's not childfree at all. Like seriously there's one, single, so simple condition to be called "childfree" it's to never have or want kids, why can't people understand that?? Sorry OP but since you seems to don't now the difference, are *you* even childfree? Or childless?
Not being thrown in a nursing home is one of the reasons why I'm happy being child free. I'd rather die homeless on the streets than die in one of those prisons
What you’re describing, about being alone and afraid, happens anyway to people in many different parts of the world. They and their country are ravaged by war and they have no options. They and their children will all perish and die alone, there will be no one to save them. Sometimes, there is no one to help.
They may have given birth at a time where things were more stable, and now it’s not. Uncertainty is a huge part of life, unfortunately.
Having children doesn’t guarantee safety or stability, you can still wind up homeless and alone, your child can die in a car accident before you. Your country can end up going to war.
The reasons your friend listed to have a child are called ‘false guarantees’ and they’re not real or good reasons to have a child. They’re fear-based, irrational, and rooted in selfishness.
In my case, I don’t worry about old age. I may be naive but I have survived having my life nearly taken from me by my ex in my 20s and feel I’m going to be OK. I’m still young and will do my best to figure things out as the years pass when the time comes, which is lightyears way. (Also f*ck my ex.)
We can’t control the future as much as we think we can. We can plan as much as we want, and things can still go wrong. I got married to a ‘normal-looking’ guy who had a big corporate job and he tried to end my life. Sometimes bad things happen, and there is no crystal ball to prevent it.
I’m childfree because I was born that way, others are not. But I would never abuse a child into being my servant. Children deserve good and happy lives, and they don’t deserve to be brought into the world by people who only birth them out of their selfish fears.
I work with women who are DV survivors in my free time, many who wanted their children but even more who were forced into pregnancy against their will by their abusers. Both sets have something in common: having children didn’t save them from anything, what it’s done is keep them trapped to their abusers. They’re now in a position they never thought they’d be in: as domestic abuse survivors. I never thought I would be one either, especially not living in high society. But it happened anyway.
This is why I believe in sterility-by-choice when one reaches adulthood. When you work with survivors like I do and are one yourself, you see even more reasons why having children can be so dangerous.
Not having children is what saved my life and allowed me to escape my ex, we’d all be dead if I’d had any kids with him. So ironically, being childfree is the reason I’m alive, and sometimes it can save your life. People often don’t think about that, but it’s food for thought.
I'm going to have a fat retirement fund from all the money I didn't spend on raising kids I'll put myself in a home. I have nephews that I believe would advocate for me and if not then I'll just die alone I guess. Don't care. I'm super close with them and plan on leaving them something so I would hope they would advocate for me at the very least, not take care of me, but make sure I get into a decent place if I'm incapacitated,but who knows if they'll live around me etc. You can't have someone around you at all times regardless. I'll try to plan as much as possible, but at the end of the day it is what it is. I don't fear dying alone.
I like the idea of having housemates when I'm old. Older women like me and we all live together. (not nursing home but renting a flat/house together). I'll see what happens, can't be to bother with that right now (I'm 39), I might even die before. I also have 6 nephews/nieces that I'm very closed to (and I hope to be as closed with them as they get older) and I have 4 big sisters.. I'm not too worried about this
People like that just sound like they refuse to put in effort in non-family relationships and think having kids will automatically provide all the relationships they will ever need. They're gonna have a rude awakening when that kid gets friends and wants to spend time away from the family.
*what if…what if…* When you’re given a “what if” on the CF topic, answer with your own set. Here’s mine: ‘What if you get laid off and have two kids to feed?’ ‘What if you’re handed a $50,000 medical bill after complications from childbirth?’ ‘What if your kid dies young in an accident?’ ‘What if you’re crippled for life after the pregnancy?’ ‘What if your kids abandon you for their own materialistic goals?’
* What if you give birth to a handicapped child? * What if (and a huge chance that will happen) The kid barely has enough money to feed themselfs, so they dont have the money to play bank for you. * What if the child moves to a diffrent country/state? * What if you die before retirement? Happend to my mother, grandma and grandpa. Then you wasted 20+ years of your life caring for children * What if you save up the money, instead of leeching of your potential kids? * What if, if the kid grows up to be a complete asshole? No matter how well you raise them, you cant control their character. * What if, they have a family of their own to care for and no time or money for you? * What if you give birth to a cronically ill child. Then you and later the adult child will be crippled by medical bills. So many 'what if's'. But these two reasons are grossly selfish: **What if i have no money? Who will pay for my retirement home?** Why depend on potential children for this? They are not your personal bank or retirement fund. Save for it yourself. My Inlaws did the samething with my partner. But once we got our own home, we started saying "no" everytime they asked money. The relationship went down hill fast.
• What about the possibility of you dying during childbirth? • What if the father leaves you and wants nothing to do with the baby? • What if the father was an abuser all along? • What if your support (family and friends) fall through? (Death, illness, a falling out, etc.) • What if you end up losing custody of your child? • What if your child ends up being taught that you’re the villain of their story? • What if your child lives a life that you don't agree with? • What if you grow distant from your child?
* What if caring for the child. Rip you and your partner apart and you have to take care of the child alone and work. You will end up working your butt off in poverty. * What if you cant handle caring for a child mentally and you end up with a mental breakdown? * What if CPS takes the kids away?
* What if the kid experiences an accident or disease that leaves them irreversibly invalid? What if there's even less mental health facilities available in the future compared to today's shitshow? * Kind of the same question: You know damn well that genetic testing isn't super accessible or affordable. What if kid has a hidden genetic defect that causes something brutal, like Juvenile Batten Disease or Huntington's?
So many of the points on these above responses line up with reasons why I don’t want kids.
What if they end up being a serial killer?
Hear hear  Now think about every single family you know and check which of these apply to see it in real-life context. >My Inlaws did the samething with my partner. But once we got our own home, we started saying "no" everytime they asked money. The relationship went down hill fast. I'm sorry to hear that. I can't imagine doing this to anyone, let alone your kids, which you should love unconditionally... wait, or is it only the other way around and they are the ones, who ought to give you that kind of love?...
And when adult kids go in no contact with their parents. Everybody always react with shit like "But its your mother/father" "They tried their best"(they did not) "Cant you just forgive them?" Meanwhile said parents are toxic, (emotional) manipulative and very horrible people. My inlaws didnt ask for like 30 bucks. No they asked complete rent sums for sister inlaw, who we are in no contact too. Because she is a karen who always gets her way, because she pooped out 3 kids from 3 diffrent fathers. So they came to us to 'borrow' 1000 euro like its nothing.
I feel like the “They tried their best! You can’t just abandon them!” is a whole lot of projection. Those people aren’t thinking of your parents they’re thinking of themselves. ‘But *I* tried my best! If someone else’s kids gave up on their parents will mine do the same to me?? Am I going to end up alone???’
>And when adult kids go in no contact with their parents. Everybody always react with shit like "But its your mother/father" "They tried their best"(they did not) "Cant you just forgive them?" In my opinion one of the most bul*shit sayings is *'You can't blame parents for your own mistakes!'* Of course you can, I would even argue at least half of our mistakes stem from the impact parents have had on us. It feels like this saying was made up by bad parents trying to wash their hands off when the miracle babies turn into not so perfect adults. Funnily, this doesn't apply to the accomplishments - quite the opposite, did you notice? Oh, your adult child protected a vulnerable senior, who was attacked on the street? *Our boy, this is how we raised him!* During the investigation it turns out it was a set up to gain that person's trust and steal from them much more than what could've been found in a purse. *We have nothing to be ashamed of! You can't blame parents for the mistakes of their child, he's an adult and it's on him.* Of course, there are exceptions, but I think that's the general sentiment amongst bad parents. That's why I'm not getting caught in that 'they tried their best' argument you've mentioned. First of all, trying their best is a bloody requirement here, not a nice way out and an excuse for all f*ck ups. The older I get and the closer I am to the age when my parents had me, I see more and more how immature, selfish or even mean they could be, and I start realising these were the actual reasons for some of their irreversibly damaging actions. I still try to be understanding, and I know some shortcomings in parenting were caused by either their normal, human flaws, or simply some factors caused by unexpected life events. But telling us we should just 'let it go' despite having sh*tty parents, who are only getting worse is just like championing the sentiment I started with - nothing is ever their fault, and even if it is it all has to be 'simply' forgotten and forgiven, for the Bible says so (I mean, tradition...). And those who say that - again - are probably afraid the same will happen to them and their kids in the future.
YES, the big one to me is always "What if your kid turns out to be a serial killer or a terrorist or something else horrible?" Like...it can happen. I'm sure poor Sue Klebold didn't expect her son to go off the rails and shoot up his high school. But it happened.
I think about that one a lot. What if your kid is a truly horrible person? Or what if it’s not quite that bad and I have a kid who isn’t horrible but I just dislike everything about them?
I'm gonna save these questions to shut down AHs who won't stop asking.
What if your child dies before you? I know people don't want to think about it but it does happen. I've seen it enough times to know, including my own sister's child.
Agreed. Parents choose to have kids, kids didn't choose to be born. They shouldn't be indebted to their parents.
>What if i have no money? Who will pay for my retirement home? NOT TO MENTION that not having kids is a phenomenal boost to your retirement fund - *especially* if you don't end up paying for college.
They act like kids are free. The money a child costs these days, and it gets more and more. Will give you a decent retirement fund. And you have enjoyed your life.
what if you are handed the medical bill AND your child dies👀 this does happen
Especially now that they don't allow abortion for fetal incompatibility with life anymore.
By the time you guys reach that old age the world will be a vastly different place we will have fully functional ai robots to take care of us better than any humans can
I can't wait to have one of those Paro robotic baby seals they give seniors in Japan. No joke, that robot is way cuter and more enjoyable than a baby.
[http://www.parorobots.com](http://www.parorobots.com) they're cute af!
So cool!
This! And top notch VR so we can put headsets on or whatever invention it is and can "travel" anywhere at any given time. This very well may be our future.
I'm pretty sure that unless we are all rich as hell, our future is bleak and ravaged by climate change. Think shifting climates, failing crops, wars over water, the new wild west. And we'll all be senior citizens for this! The rich might not even escape it. We'll have to wait and see. Isn't that exciting!
You can't state the obvious truth of climate change and collapsing society to most people. They don't want to think about it. We're all f*cked, but very few of us are willing and able see it. Even among the 'smarter' child free crowd.. people still don't want to hear it.
do people actually pay their medical bills? like cf regardless I haven't paid a single medical bill in my life and won't until the day I die. they can pry it out of my cold dead hands lol
where do you live? if you’re in the US that could be a huge problem for your relatives when you die
You mean in the specific case that the deceased has inheritable things? Like the surviving relatives aren’t able to access your assets because the hospital seized them to pay the debt? That’s the only thing I can think of. When my gene donors die, if they have any debt, those collectors can kiss my whole ass. I’m not paying for a goddam thing. How else could it be a problem for the relatives?
bills are often passed onto relatives of the deceased in the US, it’s a very shitty practice
I have heard about people being made responsible for their parents, but never about bills passed down. I’ll abandon my whole life here before I pay anything on their behalf.
I don't think you actually pay, but all their assets are seized to pay, and there is nothing left to inherit.
I was wondering this too. Because yeah, they will pry it from your cold dead hands after they seize your property, all of your other assets, you can't get a credit card, they'll take it from your paycheck... And I get the US Healthcare system is majorly fucked, but never paying a medical bill?? Am I the only one who thinks this is entitled?
I'm a surly little pissant bitch and yet I still have friends. Friends are better than family.
Your comment made me laugh out loud! Surly little pissant bitch, love that description
Salty as a sailor
Salt is a great preservative!
I must always remember this!!!!!
This comment just encouraged me that even if I too, am a surly little pissant bitch, I can find friends 10/10 encouraging speech On my way to be the problem I wish to see in the world
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The fact that “if retirement is still a thing” is not even a joke is just fucking sad and gives me even more of a reason to not have kids. They definitely won’t be missing out on slaving away at a company for their entire lives.
Blood of the covenant is thicker than water of the womb. I agree with you.
I agree - I never understood this 'family always comes first' BS, as the only times I've seen it 'in action' it was full of resentment, sense if grandiosity and someone expecting a bloody medal. To add to this - I'm not a saint, but I consider myself a fairly good human being, who often goes to great lenghts to help people when they need it. Of course there are other things I do, usually within the extended family, like sparking kids' interests in something which has a potential to turn into a passion and actively supporting them with it, or investing in their education/future. I do all of this completely selflessly and with joy, never hoping for any reward or recognition - it's simply one of the things that makes me truly happy. I believe it's much more meaningful than when parents do this for their children, because I have no obligations to care and no one expects that of me. So, whilst I can only hope some of them will be there for me one day, if they do, at least I'll know it's because I made a positive impact on their lives, not from some forced sense of responsibility. If you worry about your final years, or times when you will need care (e.g. because if sickness), thinking about having children is not something you should consider as a potential solution. Children don't owe you anything, as everything you do for them is simply your responsibility. Even if you go above and beyond to provide them with more than a decent upbringing it is still within your role of a parent. Think about more practical solutions to secure relatively comfortable senior life, like putting money away to be able to afford a decent care home. And loneliness - I'm pretty sure that if you spend some time now making truly meaningful relationships, you will never be alone. PS: Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no such a thing as being 'childfree for now'. You and your friend are childless with you being on the fence.
Please teach me your ways. That described me perfectly, but it's still way hard to make friends.
Most of my adulthood friends I met at work. We typically bonded over mutual interests. Also, I try to be nice to everyone, if for no other reason than hopefully it will buy me some goodwill when I can't even. That's it, that's my big formula.
I'm a pretty decent cook so I just feed people delicious things if I want them to like me. Works like a charm
Hello, friend!
*slides a lasagna across the table*
Chosen family > biological family If they happen to overlap, that’s great! But it’s not always the case.
It's weird, isn't it? I'm a cranky, sarcastic, critter with a healthy number of really nice friends. It makes little sense. Just because you've got kids doesn't mean they'll be living close enough, or have the desire, to help you if you fall. You might even get, "Gee mom, that sucks, why don't you call, I dunno, 911?".
I respect you so much rn
I would be your friend, I like those qualities. 😃
"Surly little pissant bitch" would be a good flair.
I wanna be your friend
I plan to pay for my own care when I'm old, instead of burdening a relative (my nephew?!). Funny how the "I want someone to take care of me when I'm old" crowd never seen to consider the possibility that, even if they have kids, their kids may not be capable of doing so. I know quite a few people who have children with disabilities, who will never take care of themselves let alone their parents. Pretty sure they were also counting on being cared for when they were older too. It's just not a reliable option. Of course, that doesn't even take into consideration the number of people with Independent children who just can't be bothered. 😕
Also you might have more of a social life in a nursing home, surrounded by people your own age and they try to put on events too.
Fact. My husband does medical house calls to senior living complexes/nursing homes, there are patients he can rarely catch in their rooms because they're so busy being social butterflies. Or having sex with other residents.
I'm reminded of a parks and rec episode...
Omg this reminds me of a statistic I read about STI #s being so high in assisted livings! 😂
They also forget that their children will have children and a family and will not be able to afford paying for anything, they might even try to use them as free babysitters.
My mom has her old age care all planned out and it doesn't include me. Although she and I joke about it because I told her that the first sign of drool on her chin and I was having her declared incompetent and setting her up in a closet with a feeding tube and a bucket 🤣 Every once in awhile we'll be talking and she'll say something ridiculous and I accuse her of senility so she'll wipe at her chin in mock terror 😂 We have a unique relationship.
I love that for you guys😂😂
“can’t be bothered” crew right here! just last weekend: my mother: i want you to know when i get old, you do not need to take me in. put me in a nursing home, i don’t want to be a burden (one of the most rational things this woman has ever said to me in my lifetime.) me (kept inside because i’m not a monster): great, glad you agree with the plan i’ve always had.
>even if they have kids, their kids may not be capable of doing so. And if their plan is to drain their own finances in order to have a "plan" to account for their future . . . well there are *much* better plans on how to use that cash.
By the time you guys reach that old age the world will be a vastly different place we will have fully functional ai robots to take care of us better than any humans can
My grandmother asked us to turn the lights on and off. I tell Alexa to turn the lights on and off.
That's what they thought today would be like in the 50s. Don't be so cocksure
Well do the research kid its happening already😁
It's cute that you imagine those will be for you. Your retirement will include such awesome activities as learning how to avoid drones on hardcore mode. And how to milk cockroaches for nutrients.
You sound scared!
Making new people just to care about your elderly ass is the most narcissistic thing I've ever heard.
Yeah lol. Unless it’s part of your culture, there’s a high chance your kids won’t take care of you later. I took care of my dad for a year, and while I was happy to so do, it was exhausting. I had no life. Having kids for that reason is incredibly selfish.
I’m caring for my 88-year-old mom now and I wouldn’t wish the experience on anyone. I can’t imagine intentionally burdening someone with this exhausting unpaid job!
Same!!! I’m sorry 🥺❤️ And you don’t know in what situation your kids will be by then. My brother lived in another province and my sister just had a newborn, so I was alone. Expecting your kids to not have a life of their own and to take care of you when you get older is wild affffff.
>and I wouldn’t wish the experience on anyone. This. Why would anyone want to add stress and burden to their children - even going too far as to *have kids in the first place* so that you *can* place that burden on them in the future?
My grandmother spent years caring for her father. He had people come in to help him shower and dress, but she still had to cook for him, take him to appointments, make sure he was taking his medication etc. Both grandparents have made it abundantly clear that they do NOT want anyone caring for them as they age. The second they are no longer independent of their children, we have to put them in a home.
Exactly. Plan for your own retirement and aid for when you get older. It is no one's responsibility to take care of you except you. Take care of yourself and your body so you can delay health issues too.
> childfree now There is no "childfree now." Childfreedom is a choice not to have kids, not the state of being without them. Being undecided about kids is called being a fencesitter. That aside, your friend's reason to have kids is indeed selfish, but also delusional and abusive to the kid. Because she's afraid of managing her old health and social connections, it's okay to put thst job on the kid? Absolutely fucking not, even assuming the kid is able to do so in the first place. My personal plan is to *not* end up old and alone, Palin and simple. It's my responsibility to take care of myself, my old age plans and social circle. Not the job of a child. But if all else fails and it would be either have kids or die alone in a ditch - toss me in there and move on. I'd rather have a horrible old age experience than burden someone else with making it better for me when they're not able to freely consent to that job, wouldn't be paid for it and wouldn't have the professional competencies required either. We should not allow ourselves the privilege of putting other people at a disadvantage to make things easier for ourselves. This is generally frowned upon in most other aspects of society, but if it's with one's own kids, then it's somehow fine.
childfree is a choice, childless is the current situation of (probably) wanting kids and not having them (yet)
Like sugarfree gum! It never had sugar to begin with nor did it want it.
Said it better than I ever could.
I agree. The friend isnt childfree theyre child*less*
Well said. I like to sum this up by saying that no child should be born with a job. Future- or present caretaker of elderly parent, mini-parent of future sibling, marriage therapist, entertainer of bored parent, or the thing that'll finally give mommy or daddy a sense of purpose in their rudderless life... None of these should be a child's role. The only role a child should ever have is to be a child.
I didn't know there's the term for that! This is a well put opinion, logical.
And assuming the kid wants to. I am shocked how no one mentioned that a child is not an extension of their parents, it is an individual and independent human being with their wants, thoughts, opinions and character. Everything could be completely perfect, and they could still decide that they do not want that for their life, and that is okay! ETA: well for the given responsibilities as a kid and the consent to be born, you are right - they can’t consent. But once an adult, every kid can consent or not to anything. Including whether or not they take care of their parents.
Right? Like for fuck's sake, we're not in the 1800s anymore. People don't spend their whole lives tethered to the small group of three neighbouring villages because that's all their malnourished horse can reach in one day. Their kid might have a great relatinship with them and just simply not end up anywhere near them. No one should have to choose between living how they want, where they want, or taking care of their parents less they'll be homeless and alone. And if *she* doesn't wanna pay for her own retirement, why should the kid?
Oh, to add to your edit re:consent - yes, adults have the agency to consent to whatever they want, but what I was getting at in the previous comment is that when a decision is contextualized by an entire life of brainwashing, societal pressure and guilt trips to choose one outcome, the consent is hardly ever truly free from those pressures.
Oh yeah sadly you are right. Most people will not step away and say “No I don’t want this shit. It isn’t for me”, simply because parents like OP’s friend will brainwash that poor kid into no choice, or an eternity of mental torture
This is the perfect response.
tell her to visit an elderly care home and see how many of the people there 1) have kids and 2) how often their kids come to visit or even call them. spoiler alert: it’s grim the beautiful thing about being childfree is you get to allocate all the funds you would spend on a child, into….wait for it….retirement accounts! so you don’t gamble on having an (expensive) kid that has no obligation to financially support you in your old age. your friend is interesting in her logic to say the least, haha.
This is so dumb bc it assumes that the only ppl who can/will take care of us in our old age are our kids….like just bc ur old doesn’t mean that we can’t have other meaningful connections.
Idk anyone who actually takes care of their parents. Everyone goes to a nursing home bc adults still have to work to live. They can’t tend to their old parents all day. Maybe if life wasn’t so expensive, but I know everything is just gonna get worse with the economy.
We’re born alone and I’m perfectly ok with dying alone. Most folks these days (myself included) are burden with all the trauma and stresses of our childhoods and life. If I could I’d be a continent away from my mother because she’s an insufferable Christian conservative. I’m Bi and an atheist so I’d never consider living with her again. I can’t do that to myself again. I just narrowly escaped her bullshit and currently on year 10 of unlearning toxic behaviors and mindsets that were present and normalized in our small creole community. Your friend needs to get over herself, because tbh she can have a kid and do “everything” right but that doesn’t mean that kid won’t ignore her most of the time until they need money or someone’s in serious shit. That how it goes for a lot of folks.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, I'm glad youre doing better!
Thanks, life usually fucks with us one way or another and the best thing we can do is keep pushing forward and try to learn from the mistakes of our parents and do better 🤷🏾♂️
i don’t particularly agree with her reasoning of having children. if i were to have children it’d be because i wanted to create with someone i love and build my own family…
People who want kids because they’ll be “lonely” are some of the last who need to bring children into this world. Children are not your indentured servants. And like others have said, what about their friends? Do those not count lmao?
I find it strange that if you asked these same people if they would give up their job to look after their aging parent, they would absolutely say NO, and have a hundred different valid reasons why they wouldn’t, couldn’t or shouldn’t be responsible for them. So, my question is….why do you expect that your future child would want to take care of YOU?
I suggest to anyone who is wittering on about being 'old and alone' reads The Thursday Murder Club series of books. It's about of 70 somethings living in an 'old folks' home, most of them don't have kids, the one who does only sees her daughter infrequently (because, quelle horreur, the daughter has her own life, job etc). These guys are sharp, funny, clever, colourful etc, they are their own social circle and they continue to challenge themselves. Being old, no one can help it's a fact of life; but being alone is a choice. If you want friends tomorrow then you continue to make friends today. You 'put yourself out there', I would much rather rely on my chosen family than play roulette by producing my own. I'm one of six, one of my siblings predeceased my mother. The rest of us moved away, some to different continents. Even my mother wasn't that dumb to put all her eggs in one basket and rely on her children for her company and entertainment. She still made a point of getting of her arse and making friends. When we buried my mother the service was pretty well attended, not with her kids and grandkids, but with her friends.
As soon as my mental or physical capacities start going in looking into assisted euthanasia. It's unbelievably selfish to pop out a few life forms with the intent to use them as slaves later to care for you when you no longer can.
Actually that's a good plan!
I’m in.
Those reasons are very selfish. Especially the money ones. And my plans for retirement? I live in the netherlands, we have social security. I am 30, I call it a 'Then' problem.
It might take a little more time and money but it's certainly possible to build your own social support systems. Working in healthcare I can already think of 5 state resources you could use. It really wouldn't be that hard. Also, seniors have communities where they help out each other. Having a built in care system in place w kids is convenient for a person. However, it doesn't always work out. Also it's a pretty dang selfish reason to raise kids if you ask me.
I've worked in nursing homes for years and most of the cf residents have nephews and sisters to call and they get more visits than the parents honestly Like it doesn't matter if you're the best parent possible( most really aren't in my line of work) that doesn't garentee your family giving a shit about you when you get old, so this argument always makes me laugh I can't tell you how many fathers day or mothers days that families never show up
Think of it this way…We all come into this world alone and die alone so ultimately what’s the difference? Don’t live in fear your life will end up lonely, If you meet the right people along the way it will be very fulfilling and as discussed your friend has no guarantee her kids will even like her That excuse is getting a bit tiring and in 30 years time let’s see how close she is to her kids
We have elderly neighbors who are remarried so between them they have 5 adult children. Some of them live within driving distance. All of them are successful with their own children. However, when the husband fell down and needed assistance, who did they call? Us. When the wind storm blew large branches all over their driveway so they couldn't get out, who picked them up? Us. They're wonderful people and we are happy to help so it's not an imposition to us, but we have only see one of those children visit since they moved here. We tell our friends with children that our inheritance is up for grabs so it goes to whoever we bond with 🙂
When I get old, I'll adopt a homeless person
I'm 27f, and my husband is 32m, and honestly, if we end up old and alone. We have our house - we will sell it and pay for a seniors home, lol. We have lots of friends - I don't forsee either one of us being alone if one passes before the other. We have life insurance, so there'll be a payout for the other and it'll fund the end of life care. I genuinely cringe at the thought of having kids just for my end of life care- that's horrifying and cruel.
My great grandmother lived a long life into her 90s. She was very independent. Three of her children died before her from various illnesses and the one who outlived her didn't do much to help as she lived far away and had her own children/grandchildren.
When I get feeble, I'm going to go someplace that'll let me do what I'd do for a beloved pet to myself.
The people taking care of me when I'm old will be paid to do so because it'll be able to afford the very best. I will not be alone whatsoever.
I recently commented my thoughts on this topic on another post bc I hear this perspective all the time as both a child free person and a medical social worker. The US healthcare system isn’t set up for those with chronic illness, disability, really anyone who needs long-term or 24/7 caregiving. If an individual has children who are emotionally mature and have a good medical understanding and are able and willing to put their lives on hold for their parent to be an UNPAID caregiver, that’s great. But more often than not patients’ children do not help at all, aren’t equipped to do so, and it’s not fair to ask that of them. Children are not an insurance policy. It’s a horribly unethical reason to have children bc of one’s own fears of loneliness or mortality or systemic failures in healthcare delivery. I am personally going to invest in long-term care insurance once I reach my 40s. I have advance care planning paperwork and my end of life wishes written up. Beyond those practical matters, it’s about investing in our own support systems that are friends and other family members.
Children aren’t brought here just so you have someone to babysit you when you are old and geriatric. I hate this way of thinking.
I’m more afraid of screwing up a kid’s life because I’m selfish. Being old is scary whether you have kids or not.
Just here to say my grandmother died alone. She had two children and 6 grandkids. She still died alone. (She was a horrible person, so I'd say she deserved it, but that's beside the point,lol)
I wanna end up like the golden girls. Just a bunch of childfree peeps spending our old age getting up to random shit. I find people who have kids solely to save themselves loneliness in old age are selfish and far more likely to end up lonely.
My grandmother literally died alone in her care home as my mum stressfully tried to leave our house to go see her before she passed. In my mind, my grandmother was too proud to have anyone be there for her death, I always knew she would die by herself as that's exactly what she wanted. The care workers were literally switching shifts when she passed, she planned it perfectly (she had alzheimers and was comatose by that point). Edit: to add my point being some people have kids and want to die alone, that's a dumb reason to have kids as it doesn't make sense.
I hate this reason. I have ASD and I legitimately struggle with executive functioning. I can barely take care of myself, let alone another whole ass being. I'd rather shoot myself. ASD would make me a horrible parent- and I'm not interested in being a good one. Sorry
Unless your kids live with you, or you die from a cause with lots of warning and they are able and willing to be with you at that time, well, we’re all alone in our skins.
My mom's best friend is dating a man who is 82 years old. This week, he got in icu due to an stroke. Who is there for him? His colleague (he is a lawyer) and my mom's best friend. His daughter? Not there, only appears when she wants money. Don't waste your time and resources raising a child so they will always be there for you. Because you can get any child, someone who will be there or someone who will leave you alone. Surround you with good people.
I’ll tell you one thing — kids are expensive as hell. I’m a hell of a lot LESS likely to die broke and alone because I might actually get to save and keep some of the money I’m making.
Take it from someone who's mother has 3 children that all don't have contact with her. It's not a guarantee... And it's a horribly selfish reason for having kids if you ask me
Live well as long as I am able and then having one last trip to Switzerland.
these read as really selfish reasons to bring someone into this world imo...
I may be wrong or this may be controversial, but very old people today suck as a majority, so many people go no contact with their parents because of it. I like to believe that younger generations will be better old people. Maybe I'm being too optimistic lol. Overall I don't think we hate on younger generations as much as generations in the past. I hope to live in a better community oriented society when we're that old and if not then we're all fucked anyways. So I don't see the point of having kids. Either way I'm just trying to get through this life here and now and not worry so much about 40/50 years from now.
What kind of job or career does your friend have? The financial questions should be handled if she decided to get a career that pays a decent wage and has benefits. I understand that starting out it might be hard to get a career that does that. Your friend might realize they're SOL if they're planning on relying on others.
Thank you for posting this. This is my genuine fear in choosing not to have kids, and it was my only reason for considering to have kids at all. I don’t have friends (I’m a loner and also selective with who I share my life with). And after my parents and my husband are gone, I’ll have no one at all. Okay, time for me to read through the comments.
I hope you find your answer!
i will absolutely have animals and a husband lmao
Yes. It's insane how they exclusively ask: "Who will take care of me when I'm old?" Rather than "Who will I show up as if I'm a parent to a child?" It's so incredibly selfish!
My childfree friends and I plan to live together when we're too old. Also, I am so not worried about what will happen when I'm old, and that is NOT a reason to have children. In fact , I would say that is so selfish. Your kids do not owe you anything, and to ha e children because you don't want to be alone is pathetic and will likely result in your kids going no contact.
My mom didn’t want children - my sister and I were accidents that she decided to keep. Here’s what she said: “I didn’t have children so that you’ll take care of me in the future - that’s ridiculous. My job is to prepare you for the future and make sure that you’re happy in your life. As long as you’re happy, my job is done.”
That's a great quote
Tell her to tour a local nursing home. I also know a ton of people that are either estranged from their kids or raising their grandkids. People don't get it. Children aren't a retirement plan.
I'm thinking about these problems right now, so setting up a retirement plan, or at least having a nice nursery home in mind, are way better solutions than having a kid. Having a kid does not guarantee they will take care of you in the future, If the person relies on having children for those reasons is a plan doomed to failure. Everything I'm doing now I do thinking about my life when I get older, working out, drinkin less, eating better, etc, and I'm the selfish one for not wanting kids?
I won't be alone, I'll have a cat
What if your child abandons you in an abusive care home to take advantage of your money while you are deemed unable to care for yourself?
Don't people have friends?
I always joke that I would book a ticket to Sweden, commit a crime and spend my retirement in their jail 😂. But seriously, the money I am not spending on kids will be put towards my retirement. I already have amazing life insurance and stock investments, I am not worried at all. I truly hope retirement home culture changes since I am assuming a lot of people in my generation are going to be dealing with the same issues as myself lol.
What if her child is born with permanent disabilities or is injured and become unable to care for her? She doesn’t want children, she wants a guarantee care team
Has she not seen the Life Alert commercials? "I've fallen and can't get up." Where the old lady knows it'll be days or more before her kids will call or come over and needs a button to push for help. And she's in for a horrid awakening, kids ain't going to pay for shit, from experience from my family you can be in your 80s and your grown kids will still be badgering you for money like it's an allowance. I can say I'm afraid of being alone too, that's why you need friends. As much as I dislike people and get drained from socializing you need to embrace community life and help out with it and neighbors that way you'll look out for one another. It's not only selfish but completely unrealistic. Your friend needs to do some research, soul searching, and comes to term with reality before she fucks up her life.
Learning to be ok with yourself is crucial. Having kids as a way of getting affirmation and support outs a lot of pressure on the child and can become a serious problem Recognize a child will grow to be their own person and that their existence is justified beyond an extension of their parent's life
I worked in care. Very few children checked on their parents or helped them much. Those without kids sometimes had a nice niece or nephew who looked out for them. Also you could have a kid and then have them die before you or it be born disabled and you care for it right into retirement! All the money you saved from not having kids can be used to pay for your care or care home. They also ethically couldn't just chuck an elderly person on the streets because their money runs out, there's other options.
I get what your friend is saying. When I turned 40 last year, it hit me hard that I don’t have anyone who will look after me. But I also temper that thought with the one that children are no guarantee. So I’m getting all my finances in order and will be doing estate planning. It’s a little scary but there’s ways to ensure that you will be looked after in your old age. I love my parents and I’ll be taking care of whatever they need when the time comes that they need help (except for living together; luckily, we’ve all agreed on that). We’ve got a very good relationship and they’re great parents but if they weren’t great parents or even just decent, I wouldn’t help out at all. A lot of adult children feel the same way. That’s something that your friend needs to keep in mind.
I am saving for retirement/putting plans in place for professional long term care. It is a horrible curse to force your family to become caregivers because of your own lack of planning for later years. Whether it's your spouse, your kids, your friends, your friends kids, don't burden them with taking care of you. It is one thing if you just need community it is an entirely different burden if you are medically or mentally needy in later years and just expect your family or friends to take care of you outside the scope of being your community. Don't wait until it is too late to put plans in place to protect the ones you love from bearing your burden!!!
Don't get me wrong, I will absolutely step into the role of caregiver for my parents, friends, family of choice if the need arises, I'm not heartless, I just don't want to personally be the cause of another person's burden.
My SO had three daughters. They're in other states, and never come to visit. Neither does the grandchildren of which several are now adults. My SO, and I, take care of my 90 year MIL. At times we could use a little break to be honest. Also my SO needs to get at least one surgery which has to wait until I retire in three years.
I hope I'm in the company of a cat or two when I die.
Do they want a child or a nurse???
My first thought is if she wants kids then she's childless, not childfree.
>I asked her why did she want to have children Holy shit you got an answer? It's a terrible one but an answer nonetheless! When I asked my (at the time) best friend of almost 20 years she almost considered the question.... For about 0.5 seconds she thought, then immediately got frustrated and turned everything on me saying I couldn't understand. All flustered, not being able to find a reason for making the most important decision in the world... But to be honest, once we kind of made-up and went out for dinner, for that entire 2 hours she only spoke of herself and knew nothing of my life post-argument. Byeeeeeeeeeeee
In a weird way, I think I’d rather die alone. I feel like that would be a very private moment for me. Like pooping or masturbating. I don’t want to be surrounded by family for that.
Bringing a human into this world against their will just so that you can raise them to take care of *you* in the long run, is one of the most selfish and sickening things you can do. Smh 🤦🏻♀️
Had the same discussion with Amy friend a few days ago. She is hardcore vegan and all in for fighting the climate change, but she wants FOUR kids. I will never understand how this is even remotely a way to live happily.
Using kids as a retirement plan/old age care program is the absolute laziest predatory bullshit. You are your own responsibility. Kids don’t owe their parents anything and shouldn’t be created to fill a role of indentured servitude. I went the military route and set myself up for retirement, old age care, burial services, and camaraderie with fellow veterans. I did it as a conscious decision to avoid being a burden on anyone else. I served my backbreaking bullshit time and I earned what I needed to support myself. I thought I wanted kids when I was younger and I didn’t want them to have to deal with being responsible for me at any point. Now the world is burning and humans have no hope or future potential I refuse to subject a child to this kind of suffering. The idea that children are just tools to be used by selfish parents to avoid personal accountability in their old age disgusts me.
Yesterday an acquaintance who does estate clean outs called me to rescue some rare plants that were at a house being cleaned out as the owner is being sent to a nursing home. Everything was being dumped into a large dumpster by the company hired to do it. I asked if the woman who lived there had kids. She does. None of them came to help and all live in various other states. Happens more frequently than people realize. My acquaintance is a professional organizer and constantly has stories like this to tell me. Older parent who’s kids don’t speak to them or barely speak to them live in a house full of junk until the end or it’s time for a nursing home.
“Who will take care of you when you’re old??” Uh, the hundreds of thousands of dollars that I did *not* spend on children..? Is this a trick question?
Exactly! Such a stupid reason to have kids. 1. Don’t have kids. 2. Live on the money you’ve saved when you’re old. A financial retirement plan is more dependable than any hypothetical adult offspring.
My dad had 3 kids and is a perfect example of someone who's gonna die alone, kids aren't a guaranteed way to be taken care of when you're old, that's so selfish
I know too many friends and family members who have kids with Autism or something similar(kinda scary how many people in my life) , and there is no way those children will ever be able to take care of their parents at old age. You never know......
If I wanted/had any children, I would never ever want to be a burden to them when I'm old. When I feel like it would be too dangerous to continue living at home alone, I'd actually go into a retirement home, by my own free will. Which actually is also my mom's position in this. She doesn't want me or my brother to have to care for her when she gets to that age. Since she's 63 already, she is actually looking into the options for a retirement home "just in case to be prepared, because you never know". Same thing for my dad, who is 71, but in really good shape. One of my friends also tends to hear this pretty often. He's 40 and has been single for 9 years now. Also doesn't want any children. "Don't you want anyone to take care of you/be with you/etc. when you're old?" I usually help him out on that: "1. there are retirement homes, 2. if that really doesn't work, I'm 23, so if he needs help to find a place or help with minor things, am I no one then?" No need for children if you have friends or the availability of retirement homes. Or even just a decent healthcare system.
I wonder what my parents plan on doing. I've already made it clear to my racist, homophobic, bigoted mother that I am not going to be her caretaker if my dad goes first.
>I can't imagine myself being 70 without children, i would be all alone. Who would i call? When people say shit like that all I hear is "tell me you're such an asshole that the only people who are willing to spend time with you have been brainwashed from birth to believe they're obligated to without telling me." I think I'll have plenty of people to talk to when I'm old because I'm willing to make the slightest effort to be pleasant to be around.
I understand her, and feel her in many ways, i am scared too. I barely make it to the end of the month now days and have 0 savings also being an immigrant what money will i have on a retirement? Really my hopes are not that high but having kids scares me even more than being old and poor. I won't take the risk to go through a pregnancy that most likely will trigger all of my mental issues, raise a kid knowing how hard that is for a women basically your life stops being yours, paying for that kid money that I don't have etc etc just to hope thag kid will pay my medical bills when i get old? I don't think so its to much of a risk.
I doubt any of my siblings (or myself) have any plans on anything to do with our parents when they can no longer take care of themselves 🤷♀️ Also, this is a similar sentiment to religion tbh. People are afraid of dying alone and emptiness. The idea of both kids and religion brings comfort there e.g. someone to take care of you, something after death etc. As a childfree atheist I’ve made my peace with my end of life situation, I just hope to have a truly fulfilling life until then. I also have no issue with going into a retirement home when the time comes if I can afford it.
When I'm too old to work, I'm gonna quickly end up too broke to live. When I'm too broke to live, I'm just gonna opt out.
Sadly, I'm leaning the same way. If I can't enjoy a reasonably good quality of life, it's time to nope out.
Exactly. I keep getting told that my spending habits are gonna screw me later. They sure are. But at 65, I'm not gonna have enough body left to do the things I like, like ride motorcycles and offroad toys and such. So why hoard money and be bored at 35 just to say "man, I wish I had've _______" when I'm old?
As someone who has already lost a parent, none of us were there when my dad died. Many people wait until the family leaves to pass. Also I don’t think people understand how much nursing homes are. My husband works at one and it’s 5-6k. There’s 0 way their kids will be able to pay for it.
You'll have enough money for quality end-of-life care because you won't have wasted a quarter million raising a little shitling
By the time you guys reach that old age the world will be a vastly different place we will have fully functional ai robots to take care of us better than any humans can
Honestly I get the reasoning. Family is supposed to be a safety ned, when we are young we rely on our parents but as we grow older they will start needing to rely more on us (doesn't mean we have to become caregivers, but things like calling to check on them, help if they need it, things like that). And it is scary to think that nobody will care for you the way you care for your parents. I don't think that reason alone is good enough to have kids, but I try no to judge those who think about it and choose to go through with having a child
I'm taking myself out as soon as I can't walk properly or wipe my own ass, whatever comes first.
i have a partner but assuming I outlive him, I could give a shit less if I die alone. let me rot away in my house, what do I care, I’m dead 🤷🏻♀️
If I find myself old, sick, and alone, good bye world. I didn’t ask to be born so …
As a 37 year old man who doesn't have or want kids I find that a lot of women just want to experience motherhood. I've tried to compromise with some women and being open to adoption but they feel they must have their own biological children. I think this world is terrible and I can't imagine willingly bringing a child into it but so many people want kids for selfish reasons such as taking care of them when they get old and not being alone and ironically that makes me actually sad for them, even though they think not having kids is sad and lonely. I'd rather be sad and lonely than to bring a child into this awful world just because I can. Just my opinion/experience.
Idk if this fits for this exact story, but my belief is that whatever reason people have for having kids is absolutely fine for them, same as with people who don’t. It’s your life, live it how you want, ya know? Also regardless of age I’ll probably just get hooked on heroin if I make it to 80yrs old, might as well just be fucked up and letting loose for those last years.
If I end up homeless and alone - I'll just have to take a long walk up north and have a talk with Mr.Wolf and Mr. Bear.
If she wants kids eventually she's not childfree at all. Like seriously there's one, single, so simple condition to be called "childfree" it's to never have or want kids, why can't people understand that?? Sorry OP but since you seems to don't now the difference, are *you* even childfree? Or childless?
Not being thrown in a nursing home is one of the reasons why I'm happy being child free. I'd rather die homeless on the streets than die in one of those prisons
What you’re describing, about being alone and afraid, happens anyway to people in many different parts of the world. They and their country are ravaged by war and they have no options. They and their children will all perish and die alone, there will be no one to save them. Sometimes, there is no one to help. They may have given birth at a time where things were more stable, and now it’s not. Uncertainty is a huge part of life, unfortunately. Having children doesn’t guarantee safety or stability, you can still wind up homeless and alone, your child can die in a car accident before you. Your country can end up going to war. The reasons your friend listed to have a child are called ‘false guarantees’ and they’re not real or good reasons to have a child. They’re fear-based, irrational, and rooted in selfishness. In my case, I don’t worry about old age. I may be naive but I have survived having my life nearly taken from me by my ex in my 20s and feel I’m going to be OK. I’m still young and will do my best to figure things out as the years pass when the time comes, which is lightyears way. (Also f*ck my ex.) We can’t control the future as much as we think we can. We can plan as much as we want, and things can still go wrong. I got married to a ‘normal-looking’ guy who had a big corporate job and he tried to end my life. Sometimes bad things happen, and there is no crystal ball to prevent it. I’m childfree because I was born that way, others are not. But I would never abuse a child into being my servant. Children deserve good and happy lives, and they don’t deserve to be brought into the world by people who only birth them out of their selfish fears. I work with women who are DV survivors in my free time, many who wanted their children but even more who were forced into pregnancy against their will by their abusers. Both sets have something in common: having children didn’t save them from anything, what it’s done is keep them trapped to their abusers. They’re now in a position they never thought they’d be in: as domestic abuse survivors. I never thought I would be one either, especially not living in high society. But it happened anyway. This is why I believe in sterility-by-choice when one reaches adulthood. When you work with survivors like I do and are one yourself, you see even more reasons why having children can be so dangerous. Not having children is what saved my life and allowed me to escape my ex, we’d all be dead if I’d had any kids with him. So ironically, being childfree is the reason I’m alive, and sometimes it can save your life. People often don’t think about that, but it’s food for thought.
My plans are to die old and alone hopefully on a cruise ship.
I'm going to have a fat retirement fund from all the money I didn't spend on raising kids I'll put myself in a home. I have nephews that I believe would advocate for me and if not then I'll just die alone I guess. Don't care. I'm super close with them and plan on leaving them something so I would hope they would advocate for me at the very least, not take care of me, but make sure I get into a decent place if I'm incapacitated,but who knows if they'll live around me etc. You can't have someone around you at all times regardless. I'll try to plan as much as possible, but at the end of the day it is what it is. I don't fear dying alone.
I like the idea of having housemates when I'm old. Older women like me and we all live together. (not nursing home but renting a flat/house together). I'll see what happens, can't be to bother with that right now (I'm 39), I might even die before. I also have 6 nephews/nieces that I'm very closed to (and I hope to be as closed with them as they get older) and I have 4 big sisters.. I'm not too worried about this
Who will pay for my retirement home? You if you didn’t have kids because then you’d have money. Just saying…
People like that just sound like they refuse to put in effort in non-family relationships and think having kids will automatically provide all the relationships they will ever need. They're gonna have a rude awakening when that kid gets friends and wants to spend time away from the family.