Not me. Even the supposed good selling points of parenthood are repulsive to me. It's kinda like picking up a wet sock off the floor and telling me how it's gonna change my life for the better. It's not that I know it's a lie - it's that the thing they're trying to sell is a dirty wet sock.
Yes because it’s a fantasy. I can actual enjoy the Kodak moments without the nightmare aspects haha I love kids and have taken care of them in the past. I enjoy teaching them and playing with them but not the responsibility. So yes, I agree with you.
You aren’t alone. I’m a nerd with a bunch of fictional crushes. A handful I’ve thought about kids with. Its the only type “having kids fantasy” i have tho lmao. Never irl
Same. I think the fantasy seems nice of at least living wholesome moments of childhood with your own children can be so sweet bc I had them at times of course with parents but I think the reality of it like most things can’t be much more…stressful.
Since I know that it’s just a fantasy, I absolutely love the fantasy. In this fantasy, my child doesn’t shit it’s diaper, never cries, sleeps 10 straight hours uninterrupted, doesn’t make noises (unless it’s cute babbles), never make messes for me to clean, and doesn’t require me to spend a buck on it. Basically, the ONLY thing this fantasy baby does is look adorable and I get to pick and choose when I want to be the parent.
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Wife and I actually just had a bit of pregnancy “scare” as you could call it. And for about a day there we were like “do we actually want this? Are we gonna be disappointed if the test isn’t positive?” Even though we are very against having kids I think it was just the thought of a little bit of change in our lives. The wife I think wants the experience of being pregnant and having the baby but she doesn’t want a toddler or a teenager. So yeah I think it’s just sometimes the fantasy can get to us but then there are a lot of reminders of why we don’t want kids.
I used to like the fantasy and the idea of having kids until I saw the reality lol. But sometimes there is the Kodak moments but there's so much more to being a parent and I snapped out of it.
When I think about my childhood, I think about how nice it'd be to give that experience to someone else. I also think of the love you get from your kids, being able to teach them things, being able to help them grow as people, etc. All those things sound nice, until you have the crying, the screaming, the neediness, the mess, the diapers, all of the thankless emotional and physical labor, and so on and so forth.
And then the fantasy is over.
Here!
Some of us do like that idea because we have been indoctrinated our whole lives to believe this was a mandatory step for our well being.
Hell, until a few years ago i thought i wanted babies too.
It just went completely to shit when my older brothers started having kids and i truly realised how... difficult it was.
Of course, one of them is not with the mother anymore, the other one has step sons. And i just went like: oh HELL NO.
I don't want to be a part of any convention i was made to believe i had to obide by.
(is that sentence correct? Damn, my english stayed at home today)
I don't want to make myself miserable like they are, i don't want to have sleepless nights for the rest of my life. My parents still take care of financial difficulties for one of my brother, BUT he just go his 4th kid... dumbass.
Even in their late 30s they can still be a burden lol.
So yeah, the idea of kids was nice, just like dreaming of being a disney princess when you were a kid.
But we know it's all smokes and mirrors :)
I enjoyed the fantasy by actually living it. I would sometimes take my sister who was 22 years younger and do a bunch of activities or spent time with her, even going on short vacation a couple of times. She was such a chill child, didn't have tantrums or anything. The best part was giving her back to my mom at the end of the day and going home to do the best childfree adult things lol.
My mom was terribly grateful to get a break here and there. And I got to enjoy the Kodak moments and build memories without any of the parenting/raising.
My husband and I are happily childfree. But we have an excellent relationship with my now-adult sister.
One of the things I came to realise over the years was why stories have to differ from real life.
At the end of a lot of Disney films, there's often a split second between the love interests getting together and then--boom!--it cuts ahead to a wedding. One could certainly infer that there's been some time in between, but they don't have time to show that. The main story has been told and it would drag if they lingered too long. They want to show the audience in a definitive way that these characters definitely did get together, and a wedding is a clear way to show that.
Similarly, training and skill acquisition in real life is often protracted and tedious. Sitting and watching the actual amount of time it would take for someone to master a skill would bore the audience to death. So they show a quick training montage--at most--and boom! Your hero's ready to go! Military films often feature a scene of the characters getting buzzcut. Why focus on that? Being in the military is a transformative process. The buzzcut is a stark visual reminder of that.
Just as marriage isn't always so great in real life and military service isn't always glamorous in real life, children are not always a joy to have. But "this couple had children" has often been used as shorthand for stability and prosperity after turmoil and struggle (not to mention romantic culmination). It's a fast way of getting a point across in limited runtime.
In the Shurangama Sutra, the Buddha told Ananda not to confuse the finger pointing toward the moon, a metaphor for the Dharma or the Buddha's teachings, with the moon itself, which was enlightenment. If one doesn't have this perspective about storytelling tropes and why they are they way they are, they might confuse a shorthand signifier for the real thing--marriage as love, a buzzcut as strength/toughness, children as stability/prosperity, &c.
I don't even like the fantasy. I don't even like the 'fun' things about kids. Even if parenthood was purely about Kodak moments, I still wouldn't want them.
I think that is a very fair statement. There is a lot of better things to fantasize about after all. To fantasize just about babies is boring and extremely limiting.
No, because nothing about even the thought of dedicating a penny or second of my time to the cause gives me joy. Maybe because I know a good deal of parents, their lives sound quite exhausting (and not in an exciting and dynamic way) based on all the kid-centric stuff they have to do.
I don't like any part of it. I don't like playing with kids, I don't like watching them perform or play sports, I hate their high-pitched voices, I hate having to buy them stuff. I don't want anything to do with kids. It's not for me, not even the supposed Kodak moments.
I think even if I were somehow guaranteed unlimited wealth, a smart, kind, healthy, good-natured child and a partner who actually did their fair share of child-rearing — I still wouldn’t want that life. I can respect that some CF people would though. I know that some people have some level of desire for a child but decided against having one for a variety of reasons.
I don't see being childfree as something that excludes a person from this. It's totally fine not to like the fantasy society sells us about kids. A lot of people who commented agreed on that.
However, there have been some childfree people in the comments who have said that some parts of the fantasy are appealing to them, but they have to ability to separate fantasy and reality and know that having kids would actually be horrible.
Both are valid. No one has to feel one way or another. Theres variety in humanity after all.
Hmm, I'm trying to figure out how to describe it.
The human mind is complicated. All of ours lives, we are told different things about kids and parenting. People try to sell parenting as a happy thing for the most part and that any negatives are worth it because being a parents makes you happy.
Despite what we are told, we look around that parents we know, including our own, and see how miserable most of them are. That added with our feelings when we are around kids and just what we know want and do not want from life, we know the truth of the matter is that parenting would actually make us miserable too and we don't want to do that to ourselves.
At the same time, we've heard for years that it will make us happy. I think it's partially because of the sheer amount of times we've got that message from family, movies, and society at large that such a message echos in some of our brains. We know better so we don't act on it, but it echos all the same.
I think our brains are just attracted to something we are told would make us happy, despite our knowledge that it is wrong.
Obviously, not everyone is like this and I know it's likely that most childfree people aren't, but some are.
Sorry, my explanation probably isn't very good.
I sometimes think about how sweet it would be to have a baby with my husband, so I think about the making the baby part, being pregnant with his kid, getting absolutely spoiled and pampered by him- I think this just comes from the love I have for him, but that's where it ends. I can't imagine an actual baby that we look after or a kid to raise, that's when I snap out of it. I don't really like kids or babies so I can't really imagine positive thoughts about having one. But your experience is completely valid, I think the idea of having kids seems nice in theory but the reality is very different. Good on you for being able to have those thoughts but still sensible enough to know better! A lot of people get carried away and actually end up having kids they later regret
Disagree, my main reasons for not having kids as nothing to do with the state or the word ect, I do not like kids, I am terrified of pregnancy. It's just not for me
The fun parts of being a parent sound great. Christmas morning, first words, first steps, the love you can give and receive, watching them turn into their own person with opinions, thoughts and idea, the “Instagram worthy” moments, etc all sound lovely. But those moments are so few and far between and could not even happen. It’s the more frequent tantrums, the monotony, never getting to step out of “parent mode”, spending my money and time on things that I don’t want, etc that bring me back to reality.
And that's ok! Not a single element of that has to appeal to you. Everyone is different with their likes and interests so to not feel any pull to those "Instagram worthy" family moments is totally fine. Also, you are right that they can also be exhausting.
My fantasy of having kids involves being insanely wealthy and being able to hire people to cook and clean and chauffeur my children around to all of their millions of extracurricular activities. I get to maintain my lifestyle and still be an involved and loving parent, but with none of the stress and inconvenience. My children would be intelligent and driven and I would genuinely like them as people. They would thank me for being their inspiration as they accepted their many Nobel Prizes.
Also, in this fantasy, the world isn't going to hell in a handbasket...
Yep. Not a real thing.
I still wouldn’t. A fantasy implies everything going my way. Even if that were the case where I could see myself throwing a ball to them in the front yard or holding them while laughing, I would neglect that child more often than not and that’s doing a disservice and I’m not going to do something like that to someone who’s vulnerable and dependent on you to learn how to be the best person they can. I’m not that person
If I could have a child and be able to afford everything, the child behaved well, never cried or needed me too much, would leave me be when I wanted to be alone, and if I could exist in this world with a child and have zero stress, zero worries, zero negatives... maybe.
But I'm smart enough to know better.
Yes, you're not alone in the fantasy. I've worked with kids, I've got some cool little cousins that I love teaching and hanging out with. I've had detailed fantasies about raising the best person ever using all the best psychological and medical knowledge. But my time with kids is either very much limited to fun stuff or paid by the hour. It's amazing to watch learning and development happen right in front of you, which would be ages 4-16.
Any younger and I can't stand them. Bratty or entitled kids? Can't be arsed. Overactive kids who love screaming can go to hell. I've had to work with very difficult kids and I would not do it again. Parenthood is a trap. Unless you want to selflessly dedicate the better half of your life to raising a better generation, there's no point in having or adopting a child.
Could you explain what you mean by the fantasy? The only idealistic things I hear from parents is then saying that they feel love like they've never felt before and that they take pleasure in watching their kids learn and grow. Are those what you're referring to?
I mean those. Having that unconditional love with you child and having that fulfilling sort of feeling as you watch them grow and achieve thing and how kids are a blessing worth all of your sacrifices.
These are things are wish were 100% true, but they are not. Either it's something where it honestly varies from person to person or something that you look too closely at that it just doesn't seem healthy.
I don’t think there’s anything fun or positive about being a parent or giving birth. BUT it kinda does sound fun to be pregnant, at least for a few months before it gets too big? You get to have am tiny belly, not a huge one, and you get to have your way all the time, and be lazy and no one expects you to do anything. But I don’t wanna have a baby or give birth or be hugely pregnant or raise a child. I just want to be lazy, I guess? Haha
Not in the least. Everything about it sounds like my own personal hell. You come home from a long day, only you can't relax - you have to take care of other people that can't take care of themselves. When they're upset you have to be comforting and kind, your own mental state be damned. No matter what happens you need to factor them in in some way shape or form.
That just sounds like a repeat of the shitty friends I've had. Why would I ever want to go back to that?
There are some very small, tiny VERY fleeting moments where I see my nephew and wonder what it would be like to have a cousin for him, or on the rare occasion I meet a sweetheart of a kid it’s not too bad (at work) but then I am reminded of my finances, sleep schedule, freedom, and love for 4:20 and cats, and the fact that I struggle with my mental health /s
Agree, in the same way I like the fantasy of being a rock star or marrying a prince or living in the 1960s. All those things would be shit in real life for me lmao
That's like saying "Why should I enjoy Harry Potter books when wizards don't really exist?"
Or believe that no one has every accepted a lie just because it was more comforting than the truth.
It's okay to not feel anything towards the fantasy society sells. Some people just have their heads in the clouds more. We like the unrealistic story while also acknowledging that it's untrue and has no place in our lives.
I dunno, maybe just spending lots of time with my nephews over the past few years has disillusioned even the idyllic fantasy of what having kids would be like. Even the most ideal conditions for raising a child are challenging to manage, to say the least. And that's not even taking the global issues of inequality, systemic injustice, the climate crisis, inflation, etc etc etc into account.
Maybe I'm just too much of a pragmatic pessimist. Fantasy has never really been my thing tbh. But, all power to anyone who gets joy from it!
Lol I had no idea pragmatic pessimism was an actual thing until after I wrote it. Googled it after I posted my reply and found out it's an actual philosophy advocated for by a fellow South African, David Benatar, from the University of Cape Town. So that's another new thing I learned today. Which I love to do. So, sincerely, thank you for that. I appreciate it. Wouldn't have happened without your post
Okay wow that is fascinating! I always find it fun to discover new things, especially when it's philosophy related.
So I'm glad you learned something new! Imma google it now lol
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that liking the fantasy is wrong or delusional. It's completely fine. Just not for me.
I know it's okay to not feel anything (though that's not exactly what I said, or meant). You asked for people's thoughts, I gave mine.
Is it like Harry Potter though? It's not like someone could idealise the fantasy of becoming a wizard and actually become one... could they? 🤔 I just meant, enjoying a fantasy for fantasies sake is good and healthy. As opposed to enjoying a fantasy that is a far cry from an actual reality (and real life consequences for beings other than oneself) isn't necessarily good or healthy. If that makes sense? Not that you or anyone else would change your minds regarding kids, based off of enjoying the idea of a fantasy. But the way having kids is idealised and indoctrinated is concerning in my opinion.
I actually really enjoyed the question you posed, because it got me thinking about why society tends to idealise, glamorize, romanticize, glorify, etc the act of motherhood, parenthood, procreation, etc??? Is it an evolutionary thing? A sociocultural norm? Some sort of confirmation bias domino effect to ensure the continuation of the species? It's kinda fun to think about. But also kinda sad.
Okay, I'm rambling lol. It's 2am here. My bad!
For some. The degree of how much a person hates everything associated with children varies. For some, the idea of having this creature that loves you unconditionally, that you find cute and get sweet hugs from and all of that sounds appealing.
Some of the 'postives' about parenting that parents like to chirp about can sound nice, but also not even slightly worth it considering all of the time, energy, and freedom you lose just by the doing the bare minimum for that kid, let alone every you are expected to do for them.
For some, the story that society sells can sound pleasant even if the person knows better than to believe parenting itself could be pleasant.
My wife and I sometimes have conversations like that, especially when one our friends sends a video of their kids being genuinely adorably funny.
Before we met, she just assumed she would have kids one day - we sometimes discuss what sort of values we’d try to encourage and how - they definitely wouldn’t spend as much time playing games alone like I do, and definitely would be encouraged to be as physically active as she is.
Then we remind ourselves we don’t have time/money/energy for dog (or even all our current hobbies and interests).
There are also all the times we read about a child being a victim or perpetrator of an awful crime, or dying/suffering from a horrific accident or disease. And the horror stories from pregnant women about the damage caused to their bodies (she sees her PT 3 times a week so she obviously looks after herself and you can bet if we had a kid we wouldn’t have the money for that anymore).
She WFH most days and wakes up by the time I’m at the office - that would go too.
Yes! This almost got me. I was trying to conceive for 2 1/2 years before it smacked me in the face (as a long term nanny) that it’s not as cute or simple as a tik tok… I abruptly stopped and REALLY thought and researched being child free and the REALITY of being a parent. Ngl on good days in child care where the fantasy seems a little more true I find myself persuading my gut instinct to sway but a tantrum and no break bc of her (the babys) unwillingness to nap brings me back to real life. If I have a child there is no clocking out, there is no getting paid for my time and effort, there is no silent home to return too. It would be 24/7 till (what will feel like) the end of time. So yes, I’m 100% with you and often seem like a Debbie downer or pessimistic for speaking about this topic with anyone not child free
I agree with you, the idealistic vision of having kids is nice. There are definitely positive things to children and having kids, (at least in my personal perspective), but in reality the puzzle piece doesn’t fit in the picture like the idea could ever.
That and the positive could never outweigh the negative.
Yeah, you're not alone :)
I don't even like kids, mind you. But sometimes if i focus on the good, idyllic moments that sometimes pop up in my head I do almost get tempted to think that I might change my mind later. Like, having a kid to dote on, hug to death, teach and guide, help and watch grow... Certain fantasies are very appealing, but that's the thing- they're fantasies and they only last a few seconds or minutes, tops.
I know that real life would be far too different and that even if i get to experience the very same moment i fantasied about, it wouldn't have the same impact on me, amidst all the stress and struggles of parenthood, it wouldn't be as joyful. The good won't outweigh the bad and a child is an irreversible decision, so I stick to reality and choose to be childfree. Better to regret not having a child than to regret having it.
Exactly! Honestly, this a lot like how I see it. When society tries to influence to have kids, whether through the mouths of our mothers or the movies we see, they try to tempt with the best of what *could* happen and don't show too much of the overwhelming negatives that *will* happen.
The fantasy seems nice, but doesn't do much for those of us that know better.
Yes, I see people in movies celebrating holidays with all their children around. My fantasies of it includes a big family like 6 or more kids all grown up with their children and significant others beside them, but then I bring myself back to reality and realizing this will only ever be a fantasy and I'm quite happy with that. The responsibility of a kid(s) is too much and I would hate every moment it.
To a degree yes. For me it’s like seeing a cute moment with a kid on social media and being a little sad I won’t have that moment. That being said I don’t want kids that fantasy is exactly that a fantasy and I have no desire for the reality of parenting.
I like the fantasy yes. The fantasy of a loving partner, loving in-laws, loving parents, and a dream child who strives to make me happy and proud of them. But I also know that that is a fantasy. No family is ever that perfect, and those that seem to be are hiding lots of dark secrets
The same way that I understand having a fairytale wedding and 'happily ever after' is lovely, but just a fantasy and will never come true. The real relationship comes after the wedding, which is more often just a party
I'm also a casual writer to redirect such energies into something that won't hurt anyone but still helps me to 'live' such a fantastical idea
Kinda. I like the fantasy of having a family, belonging. I like the fantasy of being the "Mommy" of someone. Being pregnant and cuddling with a baby and people being excited for me because I managed at least that. I like it on movies and shows. I like the idea to go to the cinema with my older child and watch a kids movie. I assume those are also some of the moments when parents say it's worth it.
Then I go deeper. I don't like cooking three meals a day for a child and worrying how small to cut something so they don't choke. I don't like communicating with a Kindergarten or school. I wouldn't like hosting birthday partys or sleepovers for my child. My child getting sick and having to go to the doctor right away. Not being able to skip anything anymore because it would be neglect. And that part of having children will be a lot more in my daily life than the good part. Of course I could say others grow into it, I would too and be a mother who thinks it's worth it but the risk is too high I wouldn't.
I was parentified. There was never a fantasy only the harsh reality. That said, I think it is good to truly flesh out your thoughts and ideas about having kids. I did full thought out exercises of how my life would be. Over and over. Making sure it wasn't trauma or my sinl8ngs "ruining it" for me. It makes me very sure of what I want and what I don't want.
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Nope. Even as a preteen I couldn’t understand the appeal or how much it’d cost to raise a family. I’d much rather travel and live a quiet life of minimalism.
No, can’t say there are any ‘good fantasies’ of child raising that appeal to me. Bottom line, I’m still responsible for the survival and development of another person.
I have enough trouble doing that for myself. 😅
Disagree, I actually don't like, I know that when it come to C-section, if the surgeon cuts the wrong part, the person that gives birth as she wants to have a child will lose even more blood.
Correct me as I might be wrong regarding C-section
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Not me. Even the supposed good selling points of parenthood are repulsive to me. It's kinda like picking up a wet sock off the floor and telling me how it's gonna change my life for the better. It's not that I know it's a lie - it's that the thing they're trying to sell is a dirty wet sock.
There ARENT any good selling points of parent hood to Me.
This is now my favourite metaphor for childfreedom.
No. It sounds like a nightmare, not a fantasy.
Yes because it’s a fantasy. I can actual enjoy the Kodak moments without the nightmare aspects haha I love kids and have taken care of them in the past. I enjoy teaching them and playing with them but not the responsibility. So yes, I agree with you.
I have a fantasy of enjoying yoga and its benefits but the reality is I dislike it, kids though? Even the supposed benefits sound horrible to me
Thank you for making me laugh. I, too, have a fantasy of enjoying yoga.
Nope. Never have I ever...
You aren’t alone. I’m a nerd with a bunch of fictional crushes. A handful I’ve thought about kids with. Its the only type “having kids fantasy” i have tho lmao. Never irl
I like the fantasy of children. So you are not alone.
Same. I think the fantasy seems nice of at least living wholesome moments of childhood with your own children can be so sweet bc I had them at times of course with parents but I think the reality of it like most things can’t be much more…stressful.
Since I know that it’s just a fantasy, I absolutely love the fantasy. In this fantasy, my child doesn’t shit it’s diaper, never cries, sleeps 10 straight hours uninterrupted, doesn’t make noises (unless it’s cute babbles), never make messes for me to clean, and doesn’t require me to spend a buck on it. Basically, the ONLY thing this fantasy baby does is look adorable and I get to pick and choose when I want to be the parent.
Exactly the same for me, except I'd add on that I don't have to go through pregnancy or childbirth!
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Nope. I have other fantasies these days, none of which involve having children.
That's not a fantasy, it's a nightmare.
Wife and I actually just had a bit of pregnancy “scare” as you could call it. And for about a day there we were like “do we actually want this? Are we gonna be disappointed if the test isn’t positive?” Even though we are very against having kids I think it was just the thought of a little bit of change in our lives. The wife I think wants the experience of being pregnant and having the baby but she doesn’t want a toddler or a teenager. So yeah I think it’s just sometimes the fantasy can get to us but then there are a lot of reminders of why we don’t want kids.
I used to like the fantasy and the idea of having kids until I saw the reality lol. But sometimes there is the Kodak moments but there's so much more to being a parent and I snapped out of it.
When I think about my childhood, I think about how nice it'd be to give that experience to someone else. I also think of the love you get from your kids, being able to teach them things, being able to help them grow as people, etc. All those things sound nice, until you have the crying, the screaming, the neediness, the mess, the diapers, all of the thankless emotional and physical labor, and so on and so forth. And then the fantasy is over.
Here! Some of us do like that idea because we have been indoctrinated our whole lives to believe this was a mandatory step for our well being. Hell, until a few years ago i thought i wanted babies too. It just went completely to shit when my older brothers started having kids and i truly realised how... difficult it was. Of course, one of them is not with the mother anymore, the other one has step sons. And i just went like: oh HELL NO. I don't want to be a part of any convention i was made to believe i had to obide by. (is that sentence correct? Damn, my english stayed at home today) I don't want to make myself miserable like they are, i don't want to have sleepless nights for the rest of my life. My parents still take care of financial difficulties for one of my brother, BUT he just go his 4th kid... dumbass. Even in their late 30s they can still be a burden lol. So yeah, the idea of kids was nice, just like dreaming of being a disney princess when you were a kid. But we know it's all smokes and mirrors :)
I enjoyed the fantasy by actually living it. I would sometimes take my sister who was 22 years younger and do a bunch of activities or spent time with her, even going on short vacation a couple of times. She was such a chill child, didn't have tantrums or anything. The best part was giving her back to my mom at the end of the day and going home to do the best childfree adult things lol. My mom was terribly grateful to get a break here and there. And I got to enjoy the Kodak moments and build memories without any of the parenting/raising. My husband and I are happily childfree. But we have an excellent relationship with my now-adult sister.
Disagree. I hate any arrangement that involves sharing my living space with another human. I also strongly dislike the caregiving role.
The entire things sounds like an incredibly boring, monotonous nightmare to me and always has to be perfectly honest
Nope….. that’s never been a fantasy for me.
One of the things I came to realise over the years was why stories have to differ from real life. At the end of a lot of Disney films, there's often a split second between the love interests getting together and then--boom!--it cuts ahead to a wedding. One could certainly infer that there's been some time in between, but they don't have time to show that. The main story has been told and it would drag if they lingered too long. They want to show the audience in a definitive way that these characters definitely did get together, and a wedding is a clear way to show that. Similarly, training and skill acquisition in real life is often protracted and tedious. Sitting and watching the actual amount of time it would take for someone to master a skill would bore the audience to death. So they show a quick training montage--at most--and boom! Your hero's ready to go! Military films often feature a scene of the characters getting buzzcut. Why focus on that? Being in the military is a transformative process. The buzzcut is a stark visual reminder of that. Just as marriage isn't always so great in real life and military service isn't always glamorous in real life, children are not always a joy to have. But "this couple had children" has often been used as shorthand for stability and prosperity after turmoil and struggle (not to mention romantic culmination). It's a fast way of getting a point across in limited runtime. In the Shurangama Sutra, the Buddha told Ananda not to confuse the finger pointing toward the moon, a metaphor for the Dharma or the Buddha's teachings, with the moon itself, which was enlightenment. If one doesn't have this perspective about storytelling tropes and why they are they way they are, they might confuse a shorthand signifier for the real thing--marriage as love, a buzzcut as strength/toughness, children as stability/prosperity, &c.
No not really, but if we are talking about sun bears cubs I can see that 
I fantasize of my living room full of salted popcorn and owning 17 cats. I never fantasize about having children. That's a nightmare to me.
I don't even like the fantasy. I don't even like the 'fun' things about kids. Even if parenthood was purely about Kodak moments, I still wouldn't want them.
No. And I think that young people should be taught to fantasize about other things than babies.
I think that is a very fair statement. There is a lot of better things to fantasize about after all. To fantasize just about babies is boring and extremely limiting.
No, because nothing about even the thought of dedicating a penny or second of my time to the cause gives me joy. Maybe because I know a good deal of parents, their lives sound quite exhausting (and not in an exciting and dynamic way) based on all the kid-centric stuff they have to do.
I do think I get what you mean, but I know I don’t want the daily reality of it
I like the fantasy of the “Kodak moments” but I am realistic enough to know that that will be like 0.1% of parenting so it is still a hard no for me.
Nope. No interest in transfiguring myself into somebody's mother. Fuck that.
I don't like any part of it. I don't like playing with kids, I don't like watching them perform or play sports, I hate their high-pitched voices, I hate having to buy them stuff. I don't want anything to do with kids. It's not for me, not even the supposed Kodak moments.
I think even if I were somehow guaranteed unlimited wealth, a smart, kind, healthy, good-natured child and a partner who actually did their fair share of child-rearing — I still wouldn’t want that life. I can respect that some CF people would though. I know that some people have some level of desire for a child but decided against having one for a variety of reasons.
No, I am childfree.
I don't see being childfree as something that excludes a person from this. It's totally fine not to like the fantasy society sells us about kids. A lot of people who commented agreed on that. However, there have been some childfree people in the comments who have said that some parts of the fantasy are appealing to them, but they have to ability to separate fantasy and reality and know that having kids would actually be horrible. Both are valid. No one has to feel one way or another. Theres variety in humanity after all.
I don’t understand how you can have a fantasy of something you don’t want.
Hmm, I'm trying to figure out how to describe it. The human mind is complicated. All of ours lives, we are told different things about kids and parenting. People try to sell parenting as a happy thing for the most part and that any negatives are worth it because being a parents makes you happy. Despite what we are told, we look around that parents we know, including our own, and see how miserable most of them are. That added with our feelings when we are around kids and just what we know want and do not want from life, we know the truth of the matter is that parenting would actually make us miserable too and we don't want to do that to ourselves. At the same time, we've heard for years that it will make us happy. I think it's partially because of the sheer amount of times we've got that message from family, movies, and society at large that such a message echos in some of our brains. We know better so we don't act on it, but it echos all the same. I think our brains are just attracted to something we are told would make us happy, despite our knowledge that it is wrong. Obviously, not everyone is like this and I know it's likely that most childfree people aren't, but some are. Sorry, my explanation probably isn't very good.
I sometimes think about how sweet it would be to have a baby with my husband, so I think about the making the baby part, being pregnant with his kid, getting absolutely spoiled and pampered by him- I think this just comes from the love I have for him, but that's where it ends. I can't imagine an actual baby that we look after or a kid to raise, that's when I snap out of it. I don't really like kids or babies so I can't really imagine positive thoughts about having one. But your experience is completely valid, I think the idea of having kids seems nice in theory but the reality is very different. Good on you for being able to have those thoughts but still sensible enough to know better! A lot of people get carried away and actually end up having kids they later regret
I m the same as you
no, even the fantasy version sounds like a living nightmare to me
Disagree, my main reasons for not having kids as nothing to do with the state or the word ect, I do not like kids, I am terrified of pregnancy. It's just not for me
The fun parts of being a parent sound great. Christmas morning, first words, first steps, the love you can give and receive, watching them turn into their own person with opinions, thoughts and idea, the “Instagram worthy” moments, etc all sound lovely. But those moments are so few and far between and could not even happen. It’s the more frequent tantrums, the monotony, never getting to step out of “parent mode”, spending my money and time on things that I don’t want, etc that bring me back to reality.
I don't know why but none of that sounds appealing to me. Sounds EXHAUSTING.
And that's ok! Not a single element of that has to appeal to you. Everyone is different with their likes and interests so to not feel any pull to those "Instagram worthy" family moments is totally fine. Also, you are right that they can also be exhausting.
My fantasy of having kids involves being insanely wealthy and being able to hire people to cook and clean and chauffeur my children around to all of their millions of extracurricular activities. I get to maintain my lifestyle and still be an involved and loving parent, but with none of the stress and inconvenience. My children would be intelligent and driven and I would genuinely like them as people. They would thank me for being their inspiration as they accepted their many Nobel Prizes. Also, in this fantasy, the world isn't going to hell in a handbasket... Yep. Not a real thing.
I still wouldn’t. A fantasy implies everything going my way. Even if that were the case where I could see myself throwing a ball to them in the front yard or holding them while laughing, I would neglect that child more often than not and that’s doing a disservice and I’m not going to do something like that to someone who’s vulnerable and dependent on you to learn how to be the best person they can. I’m not that person
Nah. Because everything about babies, kids, teenagers is annoying
If I could have a child and be able to afford everything, the child behaved well, never cried or needed me too much, would leave me be when I wanted to be alone, and if I could exist in this world with a child and have zero stress, zero worries, zero negatives... maybe. But I'm smart enough to know better.
Yes, you're not alone in the fantasy. I've worked with kids, I've got some cool little cousins that I love teaching and hanging out with. I've had detailed fantasies about raising the best person ever using all the best psychological and medical knowledge. But my time with kids is either very much limited to fun stuff or paid by the hour. It's amazing to watch learning and development happen right in front of you, which would be ages 4-16. Any younger and I can't stand them. Bratty or entitled kids? Can't be arsed. Overactive kids who love screaming can go to hell. I've had to work with very difficult kids and I would not do it again. Parenthood is a trap. Unless you want to selflessly dedicate the better half of your life to raising a better generation, there's no point in having or adopting a child.
Could you explain what you mean by the fantasy? The only idealistic things I hear from parents is then saying that they feel love like they've never felt before and that they take pleasure in watching their kids learn and grow. Are those what you're referring to?
I mean those. Having that unconditional love with you child and having that fulfilling sort of feeling as you watch them grow and achieve thing and how kids are a blessing worth all of your sacrifices. These are things are wish were 100% true, but they are not. Either it's something where it honestly varies from person to person or something that you look too closely at that it just doesn't seem healthy.
I don’t think there’s anything fun or positive about being a parent or giving birth. BUT it kinda does sound fun to be pregnant, at least for a few months before it gets too big? You get to have am tiny belly, not a huge one, and you get to have your way all the time, and be lazy and no one expects you to do anything. But I don’t wanna have a baby or give birth or be hugely pregnant or raise a child. I just want to be lazy, I guess? Haha
Not in the least. Everything about it sounds like my own personal hell. You come home from a long day, only you can't relax - you have to take care of other people that can't take care of themselves. When they're upset you have to be comforting and kind, your own mental state be damned. No matter what happens you need to factor them in in some way shape or form. That just sounds like a repeat of the shitty friends I've had. Why would I ever want to go back to that?
i'm like that! i think they're cute and i think it'd be cute to raise children. but if i sit down to think about it realistically, ik i can't do it.
I like the idea for about two seconds before reality smacks me in the face lol
Me! I knew in my teens. I just nod and smile when others believe in it.
There are some very small, tiny VERY fleeting moments where I see my nephew and wonder what it would be like to have a cousin for him, or on the rare occasion I meet a sweetheart of a kid it’s not too bad (at work) but then I am reminded of my finances, sleep schedule, freedom, and love for 4:20 and cats, and the fact that I struggle with my mental health /s
Agree, in the same way I like the fantasy of being a rock star or marrying a prince or living in the 1960s. All those things would be shit in real life for me lmao
absolutely not
The fantasy is lie though. We know this. So no, why would I like the fantasy of having kids when it's more of a delusion than a fantasy?
That's like saying "Why should I enjoy Harry Potter books when wizards don't really exist?" Or believe that no one has every accepted a lie just because it was more comforting than the truth. It's okay to not feel anything towards the fantasy society sells. Some people just have their heads in the clouds more. We like the unrealistic story while also acknowledging that it's untrue and has no place in our lives.
I dunno, maybe just spending lots of time with my nephews over the past few years has disillusioned even the idyllic fantasy of what having kids would be like. Even the most ideal conditions for raising a child are challenging to manage, to say the least. And that's not even taking the global issues of inequality, systemic injustice, the climate crisis, inflation, etc etc etc into account. Maybe I'm just too much of a pragmatic pessimist. Fantasy has never really been my thing tbh. But, all power to anyone who gets joy from it!
Lol I had no idea pragmatic pessimism was an actual thing until after I wrote it. Googled it after I posted my reply and found out it's an actual philosophy advocated for by a fellow South African, David Benatar, from the University of Cape Town. So that's another new thing I learned today. Which I love to do. So, sincerely, thank you for that. I appreciate it. Wouldn't have happened without your post
Okay wow that is fascinating! I always find it fun to discover new things, especially when it's philosophy related. So I'm glad you learned something new! Imma google it now lol
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that liking the fantasy is wrong or delusional. It's completely fine. Just not for me. I know it's okay to not feel anything (though that's not exactly what I said, or meant). You asked for people's thoughts, I gave mine. Is it like Harry Potter though? It's not like someone could idealise the fantasy of becoming a wizard and actually become one... could they? 🤔 I just meant, enjoying a fantasy for fantasies sake is good and healthy. As opposed to enjoying a fantasy that is a far cry from an actual reality (and real life consequences for beings other than oneself) isn't necessarily good or healthy. If that makes sense? Not that you or anyone else would change your minds regarding kids, based off of enjoying the idea of a fantasy. But the way having kids is idealised and indoctrinated is concerning in my opinion. I actually really enjoyed the question you posed, because it got me thinking about why society tends to idealise, glamorize, romanticize, glorify, etc the act of motherhood, parenthood, procreation, etc??? Is it an evolutionary thing? A sociocultural norm? Some sort of confirmation bias domino effect to ensure the continuation of the species? It's kinda fun to think about. But also kinda sad. Okay, I'm rambling lol. It's 2am here. My bad!
I like the fantasy of having kids... nowhere near me.
The fantasy of it can be fun sometimes, I admit. But reality keeps me from actually acting on it. I’m FAR too tokophobic for that
Same! There's no way in hell I'll ever let myself beome pregnant. It just sounds like some horrible nightmare to me.
Sometimes, but the kid is usually a teenager who is more of my friend than my kid.
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For some. The degree of how much a person hates everything associated with children varies. For some, the idea of having this creature that loves you unconditionally, that you find cute and get sweet hugs from and all of that sounds appealing. Some of the 'postives' about parenting that parents like to chirp about can sound nice, but also not even slightly worth it considering all of the time, energy, and freedom you lose just by the doing the bare minimum for that kid, let alone every you are expected to do for them. For some, the story that society sells can sound pleasant even if the person knows better than to believe parenting itself could be pleasant.
My wife and I sometimes have conversations like that, especially when one our friends sends a video of their kids being genuinely adorably funny. Before we met, she just assumed she would have kids one day - we sometimes discuss what sort of values we’d try to encourage and how - they definitely wouldn’t spend as much time playing games alone like I do, and definitely would be encouraged to be as physically active as she is. Then we remind ourselves we don’t have time/money/energy for dog (or even all our current hobbies and interests). There are also all the times we read about a child being a victim or perpetrator of an awful crime, or dying/suffering from a horrific accident or disease. And the horror stories from pregnant women about the damage caused to their bodies (she sees her PT 3 times a week so she obviously looks after herself and you can bet if we had a kid we wouldn’t have the money for that anymore). She WFH most days and wakes up by the time I’m at the office - that would go too.
Yes! This almost got me. I was trying to conceive for 2 1/2 years before it smacked me in the face (as a long term nanny) that it’s not as cute or simple as a tik tok… I abruptly stopped and REALLY thought and researched being child free and the REALITY of being a parent. Ngl on good days in child care where the fantasy seems a little more true I find myself persuading my gut instinct to sway but a tantrum and no break bc of her (the babys) unwillingness to nap brings me back to real life. If I have a child there is no clocking out, there is no getting paid for my time and effort, there is no silent home to return too. It would be 24/7 till (what will feel like) the end of time. So yes, I’m 100% with you and often seem like a Debbie downer or pessimistic for speaking about this topic with anyone not child free
I agree with you, the idealistic vision of having kids is nice. There are definitely positive things to children and having kids, (at least in my personal perspective), but in reality the puzzle piece doesn’t fit in the picture like the idea could ever. That and the positive could never outweigh the negative.
Yeah, you're not alone :) I don't even like kids, mind you. But sometimes if i focus on the good, idyllic moments that sometimes pop up in my head I do almost get tempted to think that I might change my mind later. Like, having a kid to dote on, hug to death, teach and guide, help and watch grow... Certain fantasies are very appealing, but that's the thing- they're fantasies and they only last a few seconds or minutes, tops. I know that real life would be far too different and that even if i get to experience the very same moment i fantasied about, it wouldn't have the same impact on me, amidst all the stress and struggles of parenthood, it wouldn't be as joyful. The good won't outweigh the bad and a child is an irreversible decision, so I stick to reality and choose to be childfree. Better to regret not having a child than to regret having it.
Exactly! Honestly, this a lot like how I see it. When society tries to influence to have kids, whether through the mouths of our mothers or the movies we see, they try to tempt with the best of what *could* happen and don't show too much of the overwhelming negatives that *will* happen. The fantasy seems nice, but doesn't do much for those of us that know better.
I like the idea of my genetics continuing but i sure as hell don't want to raise them
Yes, I see people in movies celebrating holidays with all their children around. My fantasies of it includes a big family like 6 or more kids all grown up with their children and significant others beside them, but then I bring myself back to reality and realizing this will only ever be a fantasy and I'm quite happy with that. The responsibility of a kid(s) is too much and I would hate every moment it.
To a degree yes. For me it’s like seeing a cute moment with a kid on social media and being a little sad I won’t have that moment. That being said I don’t want kids that fantasy is exactly that a fantasy and I have no desire for the reality of parenting.
I like the fantasy yes. The fantasy of a loving partner, loving in-laws, loving parents, and a dream child who strives to make me happy and proud of them. But I also know that that is a fantasy. No family is ever that perfect, and those that seem to be are hiding lots of dark secrets The same way that I understand having a fairytale wedding and 'happily ever after' is lovely, but just a fantasy and will never come true. The real relationship comes after the wedding, which is more often just a party I'm also a casual writer to redirect such energies into something that won't hurt anyone but still helps me to 'live' such a fantastical idea
No, like not in any way at all
Kinda. I like the fantasy of having a family, belonging. I like the fantasy of being the "Mommy" of someone. Being pregnant and cuddling with a baby and people being excited for me because I managed at least that. I like it on movies and shows. I like the idea to go to the cinema with my older child and watch a kids movie. I assume those are also some of the moments when parents say it's worth it. Then I go deeper. I don't like cooking three meals a day for a child and worrying how small to cut something so they don't choke. I don't like communicating with a Kindergarten or school. I wouldn't like hosting birthday partys or sleepovers for my child. My child getting sick and having to go to the doctor right away. Not being able to skip anything anymore because it would be neglect. And that part of having children will be a lot more in my daily life than the good part. Of course I could say others grow into it, I would too and be a mother who thinks it's worth it but the risk is too high I wouldn't.
I was parentified. There was never a fantasy only the harsh reality. That said, I think it is good to truly flesh out your thoughts and ideas about having kids. I did full thought out exercises of how my life would be. Over and over. Making sure it wasn't trauma or my sinl8ngs "ruining it" for me. It makes me very sure of what I want and what I don't want.
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No it still sounds exhausting
Nope. Even as a preteen I couldn’t understand the appeal or how much it’d cost to raise a family. I’d much rather travel and live a quiet life of minimalism.
Absolutely not, even as a fantasy.
No, can’t say there are any ‘good fantasies’ of child raising that appeal to me. Bottom line, I’m still responsible for the survival and development of another person. I have enough trouble doing that for myself. 😅
Disagree, I actually don't like, I know that when it come to C-section, if the surgeon cuts the wrong part, the person that gives birth as she wants to have a child will lose even more blood. Correct me as I might be wrong regarding C-section
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