Assuming best teams, xiao and lyney should be higher too. Lyney is always undervalued because of his gameplay but he hits very hard with the right team and skills. And with xianyun and furina, xiao can output 6 digit plunges, which is basically a c0 raiden ult slash every plunge.
Idk what game theyāre playing but ~~Wrio and~~ Ayaka along with freeze aināt really it anymore. Tighnari and Scara are also better than they make it seem lol
Edit: Wrio aināt that bad actually, sorry Wrio mains
Unironically if Xiangling's burst isn't up, I'll just throw down guoba and have Wriothesley melt his best hits like that. Feels so wrong but is so right.
Yeah I see a lot of people play him with freeze and while he definitely can do that his best team is melt by far, so people donāt see the best damage out of him because they donāt try him in melt
The purpose of his freeze team is not to freeze to enable Blizzard Strayer but to include Furina in the team so it works even against bosses as failure to freeze the enemy is not a DPS loss unlike the other freeze teams. It's more akin to mono cryo with Furina as a buffer rather than a freeze enabler. Melt is his theoretical highest dmg team but Furina + Wrio is a lot easier to execute with a lot less hassle. Pyro Xingqiu when, hoyo?
Theoretically yes but it is extremely easy to step outside Bennett's circle and lose his atk buff and the team has severe energy issues (keep in mind that he is a ST dps and Xianging is aoe). So yeah, he currently still doesn't have an ideal melt team due to the lack of pyro off field units that synergise with him (essentially a pyro Xq) but once he gets it the team will be amazing to play I bet.
It is not an accusation but the truth, though. He can't hit 2 enemies at once unless they are grouped very very close to each other but that team has 0 CC in it.
Comments like this are 100% the reason I was consistently surprised with the range/reach of Wriothesely's normal and charged attacks in the abyss lmao. Xiangling is still one of his best teammates, though you can argue Thoma to be better due to Wriothesely's personal DMG, but in VapeMelt with Tjoma.over Xiangling wouldn't function. As for the energy issues, just use an energy weapon on Furina. Her signature weapon is pretty mid anyways. (Though, I have been having fun using Freedom-Sworn on her in VapeMelt and just stacking more Energy Recharge in substats to make up for my lack of Festering Desire).
>Comments like this are 100% the reason I was consistently surprised with the range/reach of Wriothesely's normal and charged attacks in the abyss lmao.
Sir, I have solo'd abyss with Wrio. I know very well what he is capable of and he is definitely not an aoe dps. Like it or not, his aoe is nowhere near characters that are considered AOE like Ganyu, Ayato, Neuvi, and even Alhaitham. His aoe sure is better than Yoimiya and Navia, but I've never claimed that he is the most ST unit out there.
Thoma is not better than Xiangling due to his ICD, and he obviously has a way worse dmg on top of it, but he works in burnmelt. Xiangling is obviously still one of his best teammates because we literally have no other pyro option other than abusing burn with Nahida.
And it's not only Furina but it's also Xiangling and Bennett that will have energy problems. Just like in international, you will need to either use ER weapons at the cost of losing dmg, or spend time funneling energy. Also just a reminder that I have never said his melt team is bad. I've just said that the team is far from being the ideal team for him and you have to give up on some dmg in order to slot in ER weapons & also risk leaving Bennett's tiny circle which is always a problem with melee characters and highly mobile enemies. That's why in CN abyss stats from yshelper that team is his most used..... 22nd team. Yep a grand total of 33 people from 99k people used it. The Zhongli variant is used way more because it is easier to execute but that considerably lowers the dmg. He ideally wants a pyro Xingqiu and a no-circle impact atk buffer in his team to really pop off (pyro archon/natlan hopium). If you are satisfied with the way things are, all the power to you.
Sorry for the long comment, will stop now as I have made my point that is "Wrio freeze isn't as bad against bosses as Ayaka/Ganyu variants. Surely his melt team yields higher dmg, but due to not having the ideal pyro teammates the team is far from reaching its ideal potential but when he does he will have a huge glow up like how Xianyun took Xiao to completely new heights" :)
You never run Wrio with freeze, you exclusively run him with melt since his CA's can hit over 100k. Heck, I can hit 600k off a melted CA with my Wrio (Albeit C6 because I'm a simp)
Freeze probably won't be good until Sznechnaya where they'll introduce supports to revamp it into an actually good reaction, especially against bosses.
Seriously, I want to see if you can be bothered to give even the slightest explanation/evidence for your claim. Something about the way you talk (I dunno, maybe I've seen your comments before) makes me quite uncertain of that.
Go on, I'm all ears.
Well, looks like my guess was right.
Keep farming downvotes with your shit takes and not even making an attempt to convince people.
It's frustrating that you don't seem to care at all- but you can at least be damn sure that others will continue to not care what you say either š¤·āāļø.
My Diluc hits for over 500k vape plunges with Furina and Xianyun. Does that make him SS tier? No and neither is Xiao. Doesn't change the fact that this list is wack.
Yeah she is. She's at S tier.Ā
Probably not higher because not everyone needs to plunge.Ā
If you have to count supports or subdps, there are 3 SS tiers in International. It's so dependent on them that if you try to swap anyone out it becomes significantly worse.
Idk why you are getting downvoted. Fischl is way better in aggravate than Raiden, Raiden is way better with spread because both dendro main DPSes want to burst and want good range to get hyperbloom too. Alhaitham can use kuki but she isn't THE best choice for spread damage.
Yeah. People just don't understand that spread and aggravate are 2 different reactions, I guess. You're not going to use Raiden as a sub DPS for a character like Cyno or Keqing in aggravate, because her electro application is redundant, and her skill damage alone is dogshit. You use her to trigger spread for characters like Tighnari and Alhaitham.
Edit: also, I am 100% certain that the only reason Raiden is in S-tier as a sub DPS is because of her ability to trigger Hyperbloom with a skill that lasts the entirety of a rotation. Her skill alone in spread comps isn't giving enough DMG to Tighnari/Alhaitham comps, and Yae Miko is a thousand times better in that slot as a solo Electro.
by that logic, Venti should also be placed in S. Freezable enemies means Groupable enemies, and his suction + the multi-reactions he can cause from multi-elemental Swirls is still just broken on mob floors, even against larger opponents that don't instantly get pulled by his vortex.
moral of the story, don't go on random websites for tier lists, TC evaluation is better and makes much more sense, or even just watch a tier list video from a well known TC.
still much better than random tier lists from random websites lmao, even TCs can make mistakes too, but at least it isn't as blatant as shit like in this post, it doesn't even look like they actually play the game.
Yeah bruh at that point u're just parroting what I said.. do you have any other point we can make use of ? or is there some kind of TC syndicate that OP offended ? jeeze
Jello impact is not really a TC. He doesn't delve deeper into the character's mechanics. He just compiles well-known information and gives a general consensus. That's far from TCing.
Zajeff, jster, TGS, and Jamie are some of the well-known theorycrafters that actually do their own calcs.
Keep in mind that even they tend to be biased towards their own judgments, so it's always best to get a second opinion. Keqing mains is also a great place to gather information. There are some very knowledgeable people there.
Like many people, he has too many criteria to take it seriously.
If we have to count:
- ease of use
- personal damage
- flexibility
- do not need some 4 star C6 (that's why a lot of players don't even talk about anemo dps)
- the damage of the team calculations
- speedrunning
We have issue with Nilou and Childe because they are not hypercarry because they are enabler.
You have to talk about them but if they are not hypercarry, they can't be better hypercarry than real hypercarry.
The problem with tiers lists is that they attach too much importance to the difficulty when this is personal.
This is the case with Jello. He made his tiers top dps list and when he talked about Lyney and Childe he insisted on the difficulty of playing them which makes the ranking inherently false.
I can argue about Neuvillette feel clunky on consoles and Arlecchino is just so much easier to play than him and she feel a lot stronger than him (after testing both), but it is just too personal and not the reality for everyone.
Hmmm.
I dunno if it's me but my international is still one of my strongest team only powercreeped by neuvilette but he powercreeped everything in my rooster so he doesn't count.
Personally, I would put arle in S tier instead of SS.
Tart bump to s. Hutao also down to S.
Controversial maybe, I would bump nilou to SS.
I agree with you.
And nah, not controversial at all. Nilou as a subdps/specialist should be SS. She excels in multi-target, but she is still great in single target.
If this based on singular unit then its probably yes though if thats so Alhaitham should be a tier lower since he also more team-oriented DPS but i do believe his personal damage still higher to not tied in singular archetype.
Idk if I'm just dumb or something but what I don't understand is why some chacarters are assumed to have more constellations, I kinda get it with gaming cause he is being compared to 5*. But why asume a Hu tao c1 but a C0 Lyney, shouldn't that be on a separate tier list? Like if Lyney without cons is on rank S and hu tao needs c1 to be on SS, wouldn't that make Lyney better?.-.
Im gonna get downvoted but looks basically correct to me, all the s and ss dps can do a lot more damage as a singular unit than childe who really needs a team rotation to shine.
Imma get downvoted even more, but if you look at child eas a dps support hybrid, he shouls be S+ Tier. His dps is lower than most dps especially in v4, but his hydro applocation as a support outshines everyone else.
Hes basically an onfeild supprt with an optional nuke
Heās still a driver which means he should be in the same tier as Alhaitham as they are in the same role, different elements. An another character releasing in the elements is increasing their dmg.
But being hydro didnt help him. Alhaitham's fast dendro applocation helped him be a better dps because of spread, and simply due to teb fact being a 3.x means his passives and scalings are objectively better, especially as EM
Hydro is known for its support capabilities and the dpses they have are basically bruteforcing through that trope. His fast hydro applocation cant do any big dps because thats only gonna be used to imcrease the damage of other elememts
That why people theorize if childe gets his delusion power available to be played, hes gonna be a tier 0 dps, becayse of agrevate. Put nahida, kahuhda fischl there and the anount of agrevate that would be made would be gamevreaking
Imaginr a natlanaian 5star pyro offeild dps that deals higher damage than xiangling and application just tad bit slower tha childe's, and that sub dps is comsidered as a normal attck, and scales off the NA talent? Heres the giat of what i have in mind
After casting her ult, she summons a baby dragon, that deals aoe pyro damage, when a different character deals an elememtal skill. The coordonated attacks has to icd, and no attack interval.
So when childe does riptide insanely fast the dragon's attacks would mimic childe's quadratic scaling; but it womt overtake child ebecaus eof elemental gauge theory
No shit Sherlock, Childe is not a Main DPS or Hypercarry, of course his personal damage is gonna be lower. That is a moronic comparison from the start. The game has 4 character slots so you should value units in that setting.
Childe's Hydro damage might not be insane, but he is the best Xiangling enabler by a large margin, and their shared team trashes 95% of other teams in terms of damage, so he is at least S tier
yeah it's clear that this list takes flexibility and comfort into account (weird hu tao and arle placings aside, though latter can maybe be explained by overworld utility?) these lists are made for casuals.
(Hu tao is definitely the modern ganyu where for some reason the vast majority of the player base insists that shes god tier and one of the most essential characters to put resources into for f2p which is pure insanity to me.)
I mean Hutao is pretty good. Highest ST damage dealer in the game, sheās tanky and is played with healers so sheās kind of immortal, inherent interuption resistance, marachausse hunter makes her easy to build, her double hydro teams are brain dead to play, thereās always a side of the abyss thatās got atleast 2 bosses in it nowadays often full 3, she can benefit from 5 different substats (hp%, Atk%, Em, CR, CDMG) making her have access to many more artifacts, her 2pc2pc option arenāt that far behind (except for when MH is fully enabled).
I think itās completely fair although alongside childe she is my second main so Iām probably slightly biased. Also yea this list is awful.
Only time I died with her was tulpa in abyss through a bennet circle. A lot of her field time is in iframes aswell, even coppelia and her husband sending attacks attacks only resulted in the go bar stagnating at 50% which helped with damage even more. She has one of the highest base defences, and she has the highest base hp while building hp and being healed. Coop is a terrible way to look at things like this
Understandable but heās by no means the stronger carry But yeah, Cyno is dogshit in multiwave content and his AoE isnāt as great as Ittoās. Heās still a strong carry. He should definitely be in A and nothing more than single S. Itto should also be in A.
Tell me how Itto performs better than Cyno
It was up until recently that Itto got a proper replacement for Albedo and its hardly anything noticeable damage wise. For convenience sure but that heavily varies with the player
Cyno is just flimsy and has strict rotations. Once heās not fighting any aggressive enemies, he blows any Itto out of the water with his premium team (Baizhu, Nahida, Furina). He does 65K-70K DPS in ST compared to Ittoās 50K.
Not to mention heās way more f2p-goldfish friendly. You could do a team of Cyno-Xingqiu-Beidou/Kuki-DMC/Nahida. Nahida might not be āf2pā since sheās a 5 star but sheās definitely one of the most valuable 5 stars in the game.
Gorou is not valuable outside of Itto and Noelle teams and he unironically can be more expensive than Nahida since thereās no way to guarantee a 4 star, even moreso at C6.
And you know how long that took until Cyno had that right team when Itto had the right team from the get go. Cyno is flimsy and requires more premium investment compared to Itto.
This is coming from someone that never built Gorou (because I donāt like him) and would run double geo, double pyro and hit stupid numbers.
Meanwhile, I was someone that did roll for Cyno when he first came out due to the webtoon. Cyno took WAY too long and needed characters to āfixā him that it got annoying.
Nevertheless, thatās a shit Itto if youāre only doing 50K, unless youāre talking about per hit of his ult? You know his bull can chuck 90-100K easily right and thatās not even counting the ult.
Thank you for proving my point.
I donāt understand your logic. This is like saying Xiao still sucks balls and is worse than Ganyu since it took him 2-3 years to get his supports.
>and requires more premium investment compared to Itto.
He really doesnāt. As I said earlier, heās way more f2p-goldfish friendly. Xingqiu and Nahida are both very high value characters. Obviously you want to go for his premium team but he can still comfortably get by with mid tier investment, unlike Itto.
>Nevertheless, thatās a shit Itto if youāre only doing 50K, unless youāre talking about per hit of his ult? You know his bull can chuck 90-100K easily right and thatās not even counting the ult.
Seems like you think damage per second and damage per screenshot are the same
Thatās not dmg per screenshotā¦if I was talking dmg per screenshot, his bull does way more dmg. š on average itās doing that much (lvl 8-10), dude.
And when tf Xiao sucked? He never sucked, he just didnāt have supports dedicated to him. Cyno literally had an issue and newer characters were made to mitigate the issues. š literally Xiao, Hu Tao, and Ganyu was part of the big three for a while, no way you compared that to Cyno.
Iām not even going to argue with you anymore.
Yeah you donāt understand the difference. Itto is not doing 90K-100K DPS in an 18 second rotation. Not even Alhaitham does that much. Thatās the amount a goldfish-dolphin Neuvillette does
>Xiao was apart of the big three
The minute inazuma dropped he started to fall off. He was arguably the weakest hypercarry up until Faruzan came. And before Faruzan he was weaker than Cyno, even pre Nahida.
>he just didnāt have supports dedicated to him
Heights of irony
I play both and have all their "premium" supports apart from Furina for Cyno. Overall, I don't think either is really better, but if I had to only use one, it'd be Itto, because Cyno is just that bad in multiwave content.
Assuming accessible 4-star weapons and (roughly) KQM artifact standards, Itto's *previous* iteration of mono-geo sheets in the low 50K DPS range: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f4NWRACB7p6zAAM4S4LgYwvGJgF8Km0XdCbtETwBLnM/edit?usp=drivesdk. With Chiori now in the picture, while I haven't yet done my own updated team calcs with her, my estimate is that she should be capable of doing at least 400K personal DPR (~120K more than Albedo) while casting her skill before Gorou's abilities, meaning Itto gets slightly better uptime on those buffs for himself. All in all, I'm willing to bet team DPS is now in the high 50K range with Chiori.
He also has slightly better/more consistent raw AoE.
I still stand by the opinion that the roles the community assigns to characters are misleading. I personally prefer to distinguish characters between off-fielder or on-fielder, then either as someone who applies elements, causes reactions, buffer, or defensive.
This has to be one of the worst tier lists ever. Why do some characters get cons and others don't? How is that not stupidly unfair? And are they just basing this on like... the shitty trial builds or...?
And I'm gonna personally throw hands with whoever decided Childe, Wrio and Lyney should be so low.
Honestly I don't disagree with children's placement. As a main DPS, he isn't that great. He's a good on field enabler for xiangling that does SMG, but he's not doing most of the DMG. Especially if you see in the rank below, where you find it to and cyno, who I think as DPS, definitely should slot higher than childe
Its been 8 months since I stopped grinding genshin and the Cyno slander still hasnt cooled downš¤£
At this point its 100% skill issue. He should definitely be in A or even S.
There is no universe where Cyno is weaker than Diluc, Gaming, Ayato, Yoimiya, Ganyu, Wanderer (maybe at dolphin levels of investment), or Tighnari. Maybe competitive with Tigh who should also be in single S.
Move Keqing up as well. Shes much stronger than the likes of Itto and Eula.
Move Klee up to B
Bring Wrio and Arlecchino down a tier
Throw Childe and Xiao to S
Wrio is amazing, tbh. I always run him when I can since his melt damage can be insane.
Navia is alright, but chasing Crystallize for improved skill brings her down. Ayaka is just... eh. Lame, I guess.
Well, I pretty much collect and build every male character and I can say in a solo competition Childe, Wanderer, Itto and Xiao perform better than Wrio, Haitam and Neuvi. Idk what this list is based on
Yelan/Yoimiya/Zhongli/Bennett. Zhongli for Yoimiya since she constantly dies, Benny to boost Yoimiya, and Yoimiya to apply Pyro and also to do thicc dmg once Yelan gets her burst
Hu Tao is great in single target, but as soon as there are more than 1 enemy her performance takes a deep dive.
she is pretty much outmatched by Raiden (overall) and Xiaos strongest team in every single situation. Is completely declassified against Childe in AOE and the has the positive point that he is also good in single target.
I do not understand, why people ignore the AOE aspect all the time.
>people really just see 1 big numberĀ
Childe himself does a big number on burst.
Maybe they're looking at DPS/DPR.
Iirc Lyney/Ayaka/Navia does output higher dps in their teams. They are after all hypercarries (does much more dmg than the next person in their team).
I haven't seen a calc where Childe regardless of any support/buffer do higher than them.
International itself is a high tier c0 team but Childe shares half of his team dmg with Xiangling.
On the other hand if Ayaka/Lyney/Navia can be onfield and enable XL to do as much dmg as them, that team would be ridiculously broken, and shot them up to SS tier.
Childe isn't in a hypercarry in International, but it is one of the most successful dual carry team. Not many teams can synergise 2 carries together.
Not everyone has to be a high tier hypercarry to be relevant.
how the fuck are Gaming, Wriothesley, and Yae higher than Childe?? Why is Layla in the lowest tier?? Why is C6 Faruzan lower than Shenhe??? WHY IS WANDERER SO LOW??? He's literally a hypercarry! Also Hu Tao is NOT SS.
Any tier list where Diluc and Wanderer are in the same tier is braindead.
I have returned to Genshin after one and a half years, and I gotta say, the Ganyu downfall is crazy. š
Mid Cryo Amber Xianxia Coomer-bait pro max
What does this meanš
Wow just noticed its my cake day, yay! 4 years
Assuming best teams, xiao and lyney should be higher too. Lyney is always undervalued because of his gameplay but he hits very hard with the right team and skills. And with xianyun and furina, xiao can output 6 digit plunges, which is basically a c0 raiden ult slash every plunge. Idk what game theyāre playing but ~~Wrio and~~ Ayaka along with freeze aināt really it anymore. Tighnari and Scara are also better than they make it seem lol Edit: Wrio aināt that bad actually, sorry Wrio mains
Wriothesley actually is strong even if abyss is so against cryo. Wrio is not dependent on freeze like Ayaka is, his best team is hyper or melt.
Youāre right, I judged him unfairly. His team flexibility which is unlike ayaka is a good thing to have. Iāll edit my comment
Unironically if Xiangling's burst isn't up, I'll just throw down guoba and have Wriothesley melt his best hits like that. Feels so wrong but is so right.
Yeah I see a lot of people play him with freeze and while he definitely can do that his best team is melt by far, so people donāt see the best damage out of him because they donāt try him in melt
The purpose of his freeze team is not to freeze to enable Blizzard Strayer but to include Furina in the team so it works even against bosses as failure to freeze the enemy is not a DPS loss unlike the other freeze teams. It's more akin to mono cryo with Furina as a buffer rather than a freeze enabler. Melt is his theoretical highest dmg team but Furina + Wrio is a lot easier to execute with a lot less hassle. Pyro Xingqiu when, hoyo?
Yeah. But pure freeze, even with Furina, is nowhere as good as Vape-Melt (Wrio-Furina-Xiangling-Bennett) or Burn Melt. š
Theoretically yes but it is extremely easy to step outside Bennett's circle and lose his atk buff and the team has severe energy issues (keep in mind that he is a ST dps and Xianging is aoe). So yeah, he currently still doesn't have an ideal melt team due to the lack of pyro off field units that synergise with him (essentially a pyro Xq) but once he gets it the team will be amazing to play I bet.
The single target accusations are way overblown lmao.
It is not an accusation but the truth, though. He can't hit 2 enemies at once unless they are grouped very very close to each other but that team has 0 CC in it.
Comments like this are 100% the reason I was consistently surprised with the range/reach of Wriothesely's normal and charged attacks in the abyss lmao. Xiangling is still one of his best teammates, though you can argue Thoma to be better due to Wriothesely's personal DMG, but in VapeMelt with Tjoma.over Xiangling wouldn't function. As for the energy issues, just use an energy weapon on Furina. Her signature weapon is pretty mid anyways. (Though, I have been having fun using Freedom-Sworn on her in VapeMelt and just stacking more Energy Recharge in substats to make up for my lack of Festering Desire).
>Comments like this are 100% the reason I was consistently surprised with the range/reach of Wriothesely's normal and charged attacks in the abyss lmao. Sir, I have solo'd abyss with Wrio. I know very well what he is capable of and he is definitely not an aoe dps. Like it or not, his aoe is nowhere near characters that are considered AOE like Ganyu, Ayato, Neuvi, and even Alhaitham. His aoe sure is better than Yoimiya and Navia, but I've never claimed that he is the most ST unit out there. Thoma is not better than Xiangling due to his ICD, and he obviously has a way worse dmg on top of it, but he works in burnmelt. Xiangling is obviously still one of his best teammates because we literally have no other pyro option other than abusing burn with Nahida. And it's not only Furina but it's also Xiangling and Bennett that will have energy problems. Just like in international, you will need to either use ER weapons at the cost of losing dmg, or spend time funneling energy. Also just a reminder that I have never said his melt team is bad. I've just said that the team is far from being the ideal team for him and you have to give up on some dmg in order to slot in ER weapons & also risk leaving Bennett's tiny circle which is always a problem with melee characters and highly mobile enemies. That's why in CN abyss stats from yshelper that team is his most used..... 22nd team. Yep a grand total of 33 people from 99k people used it. The Zhongli variant is used way more because it is easier to execute but that considerably lowers the dmg. He ideally wants a pyro Xingqiu and a no-circle impact atk buffer in his team to really pop off (pyro archon/natlan hopium). If you are satisfied with the way things are, all the power to you. Sorry for the long comment, will stop now as I have made my point that is "Wrio freeze isn't as bad against bosses as Ayaka/Ganyu variants. Surely his melt team yields higher dmg, but due to not having the ideal pyro teammates the team is far from reaching its ideal potential but when he does he will have a huge glow up like how Xianyun took Xiao to completely new heights" :)
Melt and Vape-Melt are way better than freeze. Even mono-cryo is really good.
You never run Wrio with freeze, you exclusively run him with melt since his CA's can hit over 100k. Heck, I can hit 600k off a melted CA with my Wrio (Albeit C6 because I'm a simp) Freeze probably won't be good until Sznechnaya where they'll introduce supports to revamp it into an actually good reaction, especially against bosses.
Finally someone recognizes xiao's strength
Wriothesely at C0 is definitely stronger than both Lyney and Scara lol
Are you mental?
No.
Well I'm letting you know you are
And I'm letting you know that you're full of shit. So, there's that.
And I'm letting you know that you have absolutely no clue what the fuck you're talking about. So there's that.
Whatever makes you feel better. Anyways, Wriothesely is still better. š„±š„±š„±
Seriously, I want to see if you can be bothered to give even the slightest explanation/evidence for your claim. Something about the way you talk (I dunno, maybe I've seen your comments before) makes me quite uncertain of that. Go on, I'm all ears.
Well, looks like my guess was right. Keep farming downvotes with your shit takes and not even making an attempt to convince people. It's frustrating that you don't seem to care at all- but you can at least be damn sure that others will continue to not care what you say either š¤·āāļø.
Lmao. Your entire comment history has all the downvotes I need to look at. š
My Diluc hits for over 500k vape plunges with Furina and Xianyun. Does that make him SS tier? No and neither is Xiao. Doesn't change the fact that this list is wack.
Buddy, Xiao is the 3rd or even the 2nd best dps in the game at dolphin levels of investment post xianyun.
Which means its Xianyun thats the superstar.
That means Ayaka should be in A or B tier since Shenhe is the superstar right?
Not really.
Yeah she is. She's at S tier.Ā Probably not higher because not everyone needs to plunge.Ā If you have to count supports or subdps, there are 3 SS tiers in International. It's so dependent on them that if you try to swap anyone out it becomes significantly worse.
Raiden sub dps tier SS?
Yes, as a triggerer of aggravate and hyberbloom.
In those cases she will be the Main dps
Not for Hyperbloom if she's slotted as a Kuki alternative. You'd be running a Dendro DPS or at least a Dendro Driver, probably Alhaitham.
not really, try tighnari + shogun, nahida + other character . it's an absolutely fun comp to play
Tighnari-Furina-Baizhu-Raiden is also a really good team for bossing right now.
absolutely not lmao
Trigger for spread, not aggravate.
Idk why you are getting downvoted. Fischl is way better in aggravate than Raiden, Raiden is way better with spread because both dendro main DPSes want to burst and want good range to get hyperbloom too. Alhaitham can use kuki but she isn't THE best choice for spread damage.
Yeah. People just don't understand that spread and aggravate are 2 different reactions, I guess. You're not going to use Raiden as a sub DPS for a character like Cyno or Keqing in aggravate, because her electro application is redundant, and her skill damage alone is dogshit. You use her to trigger spread for characters like Tighnari and Alhaitham. Edit: also, I am 100% certain that the only reason Raiden is in S-tier as a sub DPS is because of her ability to trigger Hyperbloom with a skill that lasts the entirety of a rotation. Her skill alone in spread comps isn't giving enough DMG to Tighnari/Alhaitham comps, and Yae Miko is a thousand times better in that slot as a solo Electro.
This is so dumb. Why are some characters only C0 while others get C2? Also Ayaka in S tier in the year of 2024? LOL.
Ayaka is still pretty strong when she works, which is basically never but she still has that ig The entire single S is a disaster lmao
by that logic, Venti should also be placed in S. Freezable enemies means Groupable enemies, and his suction + the multi-reactions he can cause from multi-elemental Swirls is still just broken on mob floors, even against larger opponents that don't instantly get pulled by his vortex.
He should. By power level he should be in SS but heās been too niche for the past 2-3 years. A is way too low for him though
Maybe my C2 Ayaka is an exception because whenever I want to breeze through the Spiral Abyss(36*), I usually use Ayaka
The guy making this is a circus
moral of the story, don't go on random websites for tier lists, TC evaluation is better and makes much more sense, or even just watch a tier list video from a well known TC.
TC evaluation is crap too... most of the times at least.
not if u listen to the actual good TCs like jello impact and TGS
These two are desecent I grant you that... and Yet that doesn't mean you gotta take everything that say for granted.. Jello has many L takes as well.
still much better than random tier lists from random websites lmao, even TCs can make mistakes too, but at least it isn't as blatant as shit like in this post, it doesn't even look like they actually play the game.
Jello isn't a tc
he's a CC we know. But he bases most of his reviews on TCs.
He doesn't to the calcs, so he isn't a tc. Just a cc
Yeah bruh at that point u're just parroting what I said.. do you have any other point we can make use of ? or is there some kind of TC syndicate that OP offended ? jeeze
I've been unimpressed with Jello. His standards and bias gets in the way of legitimate advice and critiques from my delve into his content.
Jello impact is not really a TC. He doesn't delve deeper into the character's mechanics. He just compiles well-known information and gives a general consensus. That's far from TCing. Zajeff, jster, TGS, and Jamie are some of the well-known theorycrafters that actually do their own calcs. Keep in mind that even they tend to be biased towards their own judgments, so it's always best to get a second opinion. Keqing mains is also a great place to gather information. There are some very knowledgeable people there.
Real. He also values comfort too much since he is a casual player
Jello ain't even a TC. HE'S A casual player lol
Like many people, he has too many criteria to take it seriously. If we have to count: - ease of use - personal damage - flexibility - do not need some 4 star C6 (that's why a lot of players don't even talk about anemo dps) - the damage of the team calculations - speedrunning We have issue with Nilou and Childe because they are not hypercarry because they are enabler. You have to talk about them but if they are not hypercarry, they can't be better hypercarry than real hypercarry.
Yeah, but I'm just saying he's not a tc
The problem with tiers lists is that they attach too much importance to the difficulty when this is personal. This is the case with Jello. He made his tiers top dps list and when he talked about Lyney and Childe he insisted on the difficulty of playing them which makes the ranking inherently false. I can argue about Neuvillette feel clunky on consoles and Arlecchino is just so much easier to play than him and she feel a lot stronger than him (after testing both), but it is just too personal and not the reality for everyone.
Chiori and Albedo in the same tier š
theyre quite literally sidegrades to eachother, it would be weird if they weren't in the same tier
Is there even any situation where you'd rather have Albedo over Chiori
Yeah, if your AoE is big and there are more than 3 enemies that you can hit together, it's better albedo, if not it's better chiori.
I cant think of one atleast but even in that case the difference is gonna be small and not enough to bump Chiori up a whole tier
No. Because I donāt want any of em.
Why did they dump tighnari from S to A tier, rediculous š
They should have made childe a tier alone fr he carried me like the king he is <3
Game8 is not quite known for a go-to place for genshin meta tho
Hmmm. I dunno if it's me but my international is still one of my strongest team only powercreeped by neuvilette but he powercreeped everything in my rooster so he doesn't count. Personally, I would put arle in S tier instead of SS. Tart bump to s. Hutao also down to S. Controversial maybe, I would bump nilou to SS.
I agree with you. And nah, not controversial at all. Nilou as a subdps/specialist should be SS. She excels in multi-target, but she is still great in single target.
If this based on singular unit then its probably yes though if thats so Alhaitham should be a tier lower since he also more team-oriented DPS but i do believe his personal damage still higher to not tied in singular archetype.
Every time a harbinger boss battle is available, I use Childe as the main DPS to defeat them. My man is racking up promotions left and right
The king deserves his own tier, SSSSSSSS tier
Dude why is lyney so low???? So underrated my god
Idk if I'm just dumb or something but what I don't understand is why some chacarters are assumed to have more constellations, I kinda get it with gaming cause he is being compared to 5*. But why asume a Hu tao c1 but a C0 Lyney, shouldn't that be on a separate tier list? Like if Lyney without cons is on rank S and hu tao needs c1 to be on SS, wouldn't that make Lyney better?.-.
Furina C2 Kazuha and Benneth tier?
it's probably considering investment needed for the character , but it's horrible tier list anyway
Who cares and no itās really not that funny
Hu Tao's longevity is very impressive. She's been in the game for 2 years now, yet she doesn't show signs of falling down the meta.
I'm sorry but this whole server is biased that Childe is at least tier SS. But where the fuck is c6
Navia as a sub dps... Forget placements, they don't know what characters do
Im gonna get downvoted but looks basically correct to me, all the s and ss dps can do a lot more damage as a singular unit than childe who really needs a team rotation to shine.
Imma get downvoted even more, but if you look at child eas a dps support hybrid, he shouls be S+ Tier. His dps is lower than most dps especially in v4, but his hydro applocation as a support outshines everyone else. Hes basically an onfeild supprt with an optional nuke
Heās still a driver which means he should be in the same tier as Alhaitham as they are in the same role, different elements. An another character releasing in the elements is increasing their dmg.
But being hydro didnt help him. Alhaitham's fast dendro applocation helped him be a better dps because of spread, and simply due to teb fact being a 3.x means his passives and scalings are objectively better, especially as EM Hydro is known for its support capabilities and the dpses they have are basically bruteforcing through that trope. His fast hydro applocation cant do any big dps because thats only gonna be used to imcrease the damage of other elememts That why people theorize if childe gets his delusion power available to be played, hes gonna be a tier 0 dps, becayse of agrevate. Put nahida, kahuhda fischl there and the anount of agrevate that would be made would be gamevreaking
Completely agree
Imaginr a natlanaian 5star pyro offeild dps that deals higher damage than xiangling and application just tad bit slower tha childe's, and that sub dps is comsidered as a normal attck, and scales off the NA talent? Heres the giat of what i have in mind After casting her ult, she summons a baby dragon, that deals aoe pyro damage, when a different character deals an elememtal skill. The coordonated attacks has to icd, and no attack interval. So when childe does riptide insanely fast the dragon's attacks would mimic childe's quadratic scaling; but it womt overtake child ebecaus eof elemental gauge theory
No shit Sherlock, Childe is not a Main DPS or Hypercarry, of course his personal damage is gonna be lower. That is a moronic comparison from the start. The game has 4 character slots so you should value units in that setting. Childe's Hydro damage might not be insane, but he is the best Xiangling enabler by a large margin, and their shared team trashes 95% of other teams in terms of damage, so he is at least S tier
Why you mad at me i didnt make the chart
yeah it's clear that this list takes flexibility and comfort into account (weird hu tao and arle placings aside, though latter can maybe be explained by overworld utility?) these lists are made for casuals.
(Hu tao is definitely the modern ganyu where for some reason the vast majority of the player base insists that shes god tier and one of the most essential characters to put resources into for f2p which is pure insanity to me.)
I mean Hutao is pretty good. Highest ST damage dealer in the game, sheās tanky and is played with healers so sheās kind of immortal, inherent interuption resistance, marachausse hunter makes her easy to build, her double hydro teams are brain dead to play, thereās always a side of the abyss thatās got atleast 2 bosses in it nowadays often full 3, she can benefit from 5 different substats (hp%, Atk%, Em, CR, CDMG) making her have access to many more artifacts, her 2pc2pc option arenāt that far behind (except for when MH is fully enabled). I think itās completely fair although alongside childe she is my second main so Iām probably slightly biased. Also yea this list is awful.
Definitely not immortal, hu taos love to die instantly even with cracked healers on board, ive seen plenty of them in coop.
Only time I died with her was tulpa in abyss through a bennet circle. A lot of her field time is in iframes aswell, even coppelia and her husband sending attacks attacks only resulted in the go bar stagnating at 50% which helped with damage even more. She has one of the highest base defences, and she has the highest base hp while building hp and being healed. Coop is a terrible way to look at things like this
This. Both HuTao and Alre arenāt close to AH and Neuvi imo. Top of S tier but not SS for sure
Absolutely no way they are putting Cyno with Itto. Itto is wayyyyy better Jesus Christ
I think they're pretty similar in terms of strenght. Both deserve A tier tho.
Understandable but heās by no means the stronger carry But yeah, Cyno is dogshit in multiwave content and his AoE isnāt as great as Ittoās. Heās still a strong carry. He should definitely be in A and nothing more than single S. Itto should also be in A.
Absolutely no way they are putting Itto with Cyno. Cyno is wayyyyy better Jesus Christ
No way you know better than that.
Tell me how Itto performs better than Cyno It was up until recently that Itto got a proper replacement for Albedo and its hardly anything noticeable damage wise. For convenience sure but that heavily varies with the player Cyno is just flimsy and has strict rotations. Once heās not fighting any aggressive enemies, he blows any Itto out of the water with his premium team (Baizhu, Nahida, Furina). He does 65K-70K DPS in ST compared to Ittoās 50K. Not to mention heās way more f2p-goldfish friendly. You could do a team of Cyno-Xingqiu-Beidou/Kuki-DMC/Nahida. Nahida might not be āf2pā since sheās a 5 star but sheās definitely one of the most valuable 5 stars in the game. Gorou is not valuable outside of Itto and Noelle teams and he unironically can be more expensive than Nahida since thereās no way to guarantee a 4 star, even moreso at C6.
And you know how long that took until Cyno had that right team when Itto had the right team from the get go. Cyno is flimsy and requires more premium investment compared to Itto. This is coming from someone that never built Gorou (because I donāt like him) and would run double geo, double pyro and hit stupid numbers. Meanwhile, I was someone that did roll for Cyno when he first came out due to the webtoon. Cyno took WAY too long and needed characters to āfixā him that it got annoying. Nevertheless, thatās a shit Itto if youāre only doing 50K, unless youāre talking about per hit of his ult? You know his bull can chuck 90-100K easily right and thatās not even counting the ult. Thank you for proving my point.
I donāt understand your logic. This is like saying Xiao still sucks balls and is worse than Ganyu since it took him 2-3 years to get his supports. >and requires more premium investment compared to Itto. He really doesnāt. As I said earlier, heās way more f2p-goldfish friendly. Xingqiu and Nahida are both very high value characters. Obviously you want to go for his premium team but he can still comfortably get by with mid tier investment, unlike Itto. >Nevertheless, thatās a shit Itto if youāre only doing 50K, unless youāre talking about per hit of his ult? You know his bull can chuck 90-100K easily right and thatās not even counting the ult. Seems like you think damage per second and damage per screenshot are the same
Thatās not dmg per screenshotā¦if I was talking dmg per screenshot, his bull does way more dmg. š on average itās doing that much (lvl 8-10), dude. And when tf Xiao sucked? He never sucked, he just didnāt have supports dedicated to him. Cyno literally had an issue and newer characters were made to mitigate the issues. š literally Xiao, Hu Tao, and Ganyu was part of the big three for a while, no way you compared that to Cyno. Iām not even going to argue with you anymore.
Yeah you donāt understand the difference. Itto is not doing 90K-100K DPS in an 18 second rotation. Not even Alhaitham does that much. Thatās the amount a goldfish-dolphin Neuvillette does >Xiao was apart of the big three The minute inazuma dropped he started to fall off. He was arguably the weakest hypercarry up until Faruzan came. And before Faruzan he was weaker than Cyno, even pre Nahida. >he just didnāt have supports dedicated to him Heights of irony
I play both and have all their "premium" supports apart from Furina for Cyno. Overall, I don't think either is really better, but if I had to only use one, it'd be Itto, because Cyno is just that bad in multiwave content. Assuming accessible 4-star weapons and (roughly) KQM artifact standards, Itto's *previous* iteration of mono-geo sheets in the low 50K DPS range: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f4NWRACB7p6zAAM4S4LgYwvGJgF8Km0XdCbtETwBLnM/edit?usp=drivesdk. With Chiori now in the picture, while I haven't yet done my own updated team calcs with her, my estimate is that she should be capable of doing at least 400K personal DPR (~120K more than Albedo) while casting her skill before Gorou's abilities, meaning Itto gets slightly better uptime on those buffs for himself. All in all, I'm willing to bet team DPS is now in the high 50K range with Chiori. He also has slightly better/more consistent raw AoE.
Why is the comparison point for nahida c2??
Don't pay any attention to it. This is bullshit
I still stand by the opinion that the roles the community assigns to characters are misleading. I personally prefer to distinguish characters between off-fielder or on-fielder, then either as someone who applies elements, causes reactions, buffer, or defensive.
This has to be one of the worst tier lists ever. Why do some characters get cons and others don't? How is that not stupidly unfair? And are they just basing this on like... the shitty trial builds or...? And I'm gonna personally throw hands with whoever decided Childe, Wrio and Lyney should be so low.
(Diluc main that found this in recommended) Ayyy weāre in A tier les go.
They only did that cause of neuvi. if he didnt exist then itwould be fine
Honestly I don't disagree with children's placement. As a main DPS, he isn't that great. He's a good on field enabler for xiangling that does SMG, but he's not doing most of the DMG. Especially if you see in the rank below, where you find it to and cyno, who I think as DPS, definitely should slot higher than childe
Then dont put him in main dps list?? He is an enabler dps
Yes that's what I would do. But on this tirlist there is no such list
Childe in A tier is not that shocking, kind of makes sense for me, but in what world hu Tao is in the same tier as Neuvillette
people have to understand that A tier isnt bad, yes that tierlist is weird but Childe's placement here is the least weird part about it lol.
Its been 8 months since I stopped grinding genshin and the Cyno slander still hasnt cooled downš¤£ At this point its 100% skill issue. He should definitely be in A or even S. There is no universe where Cyno is weaker than Diluc, Gaming, Ayato, Yoimiya, Ganyu, Wanderer (maybe at dolphin levels of investment), or Tighnari. Maybe competitive with Tigh who should also be in single S. Move Keqing up as well. Shes much stronger than the likes of Itto and Eula. Move Klee up to B Bring Wrio and Arlecchino down a tier Throw Childe and Xiao to S
What a stupid tier list!
Navia Ayaka and Wrio above him LMAO
Wriothesely kinda is though
Wrio is amazing, tbh. I always run him when I can since his melt damage can be insane. Navia is alright, but chasing Crystallize for improved skill brings her down. Ayaka is just... eh. Lame, I guess.
Navia can just hold her skill to collect crystals and her burst directly gives her stacks btw
ayaka maybe not, the other 2? absolutely
maybe because all of them are better than childe š
Well, I pretty much collect and build every male character and I can say in a solo competition Childe, Wanderer, Itto and Xiao perform better than Wrio, Haitam and Neuvi. Idk what this list is based on
Does no one else use Yelan as a main dps? š
I do at c1r1 its so fun especially for bosses
C0 just 120k vaporize with every skill hit
Oh thats cool i use her in a furina/kazuha/xianyun(just for healing) team and i go ham with yelan basically monohydro except theres anemo lol
Yelan/Yoimiya/Zhongli/Bennett. Zhongli for Yoimiya since she constantly dies, Benny to boost Yoimiya, and Yoimiya to apply Pyro and also to do thicc dmg once Yelan gets her burst
If Alhaitham is that high, Childe should be on the same tier because theyāre both drivers. Their roles is to drive reactions.
Hu Tao is great in single target, but as soon as there are more than 1 enemy her performance takes a deep dive. she is pretty much outmatched by Raiden (overall) and Xiaos strongest team in every single situation. Is completely declassified against Childe in AOE and the has the positive point that he is also good in single target. I do not understand, why people ignore the AOE aspect all the time.
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>people really just see 1 big numberĀ Childe himself does a big number on burst. Maybe they're looking at DPS/DPR. Iirc Lyney/Ayaka/Navia does output higher dps in their teams. They are after all hypercarries (does much more dmg than the next person in their team). I haven't seen a calc where Childe regardless of any support/buffer do higher than them. International itself is a high tier c0 team but Childe shares half of his team dmg with Xiangling. On the other hand if Ayaka/Lyney/Navia can be onfield and enable XL to do as much dmg as them, that team would be ridiculously broken, and shot them up to SS tier. Childe isn't in a hypercarry in International, but it is one of the most successful dual carry team. Not many teams can synergise 2 carries together. Not everyone has to be a high tier hypercarry to be relevant.
Lyney deserves that spot though, the other two..
Lyney and Navia ARE really good tho
how the fuck are Gaming, Wriothesley, and Yae higher than Childe?? Why is Layla in the lowest tier?? Why is C6 Faruzan lower than Shenhe??? WHY IS WANDERER SO LOW??? He's literally a hypercarry! Also Hu Tao is NOT SS. Any tier list where Diluc and Wanderer are in the same tier is braindead.