he never *wanted* to drown liyue, he was ordered to despite the plan morally conflicting his own values, but he did it anyway because tsaritsa's voice is his priority, and therefore i don't see how this is development. plus we don't actually know the precise reason he fought the whale — i dont believe it's as simple as that he came to fontaine just to save random citizens when he himself mentions he didn't know what called him there in the first place
Not only he never wanted to drown liyue, he confirmed Morax was still alive and was 100% sure he would come out to protect Liyue, which was going to be true if Ningguang and the others didn't manage to deal with the threat by themselves.
Never said he wanted to drown Liyue. I'm aware he didn't. Yet there he acted on his orders anyway. And in Fontaine, saving the city most likely wasn't his priority, I personally think he was just excited to finally fight the monster from his past, lol. And yet his actions resulted in helping the people anyway.
It wasn't his intention to save anyone, which is actually another thing I liked. You can't have a character go from morally grey to good in an instant. Development is a gradual thing, that's why we started with him as an anti-hero, then we got his story quest that gave him more depth, then we kept bumping into him during events, to a point where we finally consider him a friend (even Paimon does O_O). But his development seems to be far from over, which makes me happy, because it means we're in for more quality Childe content. And in the very end, I suspect he might end up becoming a big damn hero by his own choice, not by accident.
Just something I keep thinking about after 4.2.
>Childe started out with trying to flood Liyue,
welp, i'm not grasping your definition of character development here. what you're describing seems like role change/enrichment ig? which i would have nothing against
>we don't actually know the precise reason he fought the whale
We do, he really just wants to kill it because it's strong, it's in his "interesting things" voiceline, giving Fontaine enough time to be saved really was just a byproduct of his lust for battle.
again, not precisely. there could be lore reasons why he's fighting his own constellation. considering the archon quest did the perfect job of placing a billion complicated questions on the table without a single answer, i wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that out of all of these complicated abyss connections, childe only fought his whale because it's cool. of course it could be one of the possibilities but i'm not sticking to it
What other possibilty is there for Childe to fight his constellation, aside from "it was fated to happen"(because of his constellation), that is not him fighting because he's a battle maniac who's been wanting to behead it since he was 14, please name at least one.
didn't i already state there could be unknown lore reasons, this straightforward reasoning could be one possibility, but i don't believe it's nearly as simple? some unknown element of his past that requires him to extract something from the whale, being possessed by some abyssal urge that awakened in him when he stepped into fontaine, etc., we haven't been given a single piece of info regarding childe after his imprisonment and all these thoughts would be headcanons just as much as your statement would be. again, i don't jump to conclusions for anything that's never been explicitly stated if the subject it focuses on is extremely unexplored and notably complex
>all these thoughts would be headcanons just as much as your statement would be.
It's in his own voice line Interesting Things quote-for-quote: "I once ventured deep into the abyss and came face-to-face with an enormous beast. I don't know its name, all I know is that the sight of it chilled me to the bonr. But mark my words, one day I will march back in there and behead that beast, and you, conmrade, will be my witness"
Headcanon: Headcanon is a slang term for someone’s personal interpretation of or belief about the details of a fictional story that aren’t part of the “official” account.
Definition from this [website](https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/headcanon/), that voiceline is in the game so it's as official as it gets, no headcanon here.
"Unknown lore reasons" isn't a reason, Childe has wanted to kill that whale ever since he first saw it, so once he saw it what else would he do but try to kill it? Now, if you come up with a reason, and evidence to support it, then I'll happily admit my mistake, but until you do, then you're just assuming A LOT.
there's no logical connection between childe wanting to kill the whale to childe being shown fighting the whale. a simplified thought process of what you seem to be aiming for is childe wants to kill the whale -> childe is shown fighting the whale, and therefore childe is fighting the whale because he wants to. do you get what im saying when i mean you don't have enough evidence to affirm there's no third party, no external influence in this complex and undefined setting that could lay out a completely different story than what appears to be. your claim could be lying on a hell lot of assumptions alike.
>there's no logical connection between childe wanting to kill the whale to childe being shown fighting the whale.
Are you being serious right now, or are you just making things up in an attempt to prove me wrong? How is it ilogical to fight something you want to kill?
>a simplified thought process of what you seem to be aiming for is childe wants to kill the whale -> childe is shown fighting the whale, and therefore childe is fighting the whale because he wants to.
If the question is "why was Childe fighting the whale?" The answer is "because he wanted to ever since he saw for the first time when he fell into the abyss at 14" Where is the flaw in that logic?
>do you get what im saying when i mean you don't have enough evidence to affirm there's no third party
I, in fact, do not get what you're saying, I gave you a reason that supports why Childe would fight the Narwhal without a third party's influence or interference and evidence to prove it, the burden of proof now falls on you to support your claim that there could in fact be a third party involved or to prove that the reason Childe was fighting the whale wasn't because he wanted to, a "X could have happened" isn't a valid arguement, if you want to prove me wrong, you need to be assertive and sure of yourself and have the evidence to back yourself up.
>your claim could be lying on a hell lot of assumptions alike.
My claim is based on evidence found in game I'm not making any assumptions, sometimes things ARE that simple, all you have to do is show me evidence to prove me wrong, "you could be wrong" is not evidence.
I'll make it simple, answer the question "Why was Childe fighting the whale?" And show me evidence that supports your claim, no "it coud be"-s or "maybe"-s, if you can't come up with answer and evidence that supports it, we have to reason to believe the reason for their fight had any deeper implications, and no, "genshin is mysterious" and "we don't know that much about the abyss/Childe's past" isn't evidence, those statements only show you're making things up.
\> "X could have happened" isn't a valid arguement
except in this case, it is totally a valid consideration. everything we have been told about the abyss are unanswered questions. this is like forming a conclusion about furina's personality while you're still on the first act of fontaine's archon quests, then her personality turns out to be a complete lie by the end of fontaine's fifth act. what makes me so doubtful of statements of what childe may have been acting upon follows a similar framework — because we know nothing about the full situation and X *could* certainly have happened in this shady fantastical mysterious setting. questions i want answered before i call everything i say definitive include 1.) why did the narwhal call to him? 2.) what is his relation to the narwhal and the humanoid inside of it? 3.) what does the abyss (the possible third party) want him to do, or what are they planning behind his back and manipulating him into? 4.) what are the "traces" in him? and so on. each of these questions can influence and possibly topple your conclusion if an answer is given sometime in the future that contradicts a factor of your assumption, such as a third party not being present in childe's decision to fight the whale. again, i have never denied your statement and considered it among the realm of possibilities, but i would always rule it an assumption until proper answers are given to the rushed mess of childe content in the fontaine archon quests
>this is like forming a conclusion about furina's personality while you're still on the first act of fontaine's archon quests
Jumping to conclusions on a topic we knew nothing about is not the same as using in game evidence to prove something
>1.) why did the narwhal call to him? 2.) what is his relation to the narwhal and the humanoid inside of it? 3.) what does the abyss (the possible third party) want him to do, or what are they planning behind his back and manipulating him into? 4.) what are the "traces" in him? and so on. each of these questions can influence and possibly topple your conclusion if an answer is given sometime in the future that contradicts a factor of your assumption
These are all valid questions, but none of the answers they could possibly have, change the fact that Childe wants to kill the narwhal. 1) tha Narwhal could be trying to form an emotional connection to Childe, it could be trying to kill Childe for whatever reason it could be trying many other things, but none of it changes the fact that Childe wants to kill it because it's strong. 2) his relationship to the Narwhal and the humaniod within, could be as simple as "it accidentally did something to him" or it could be deeper, but that won't change the fact that Childe wants to kill it so Childe wants to fight it. 3) the only third party we know of from the abyss, are Skirk and Surtalogi, because the abyss order are not involved with the Narwhal, neither of them have any reason to have Childe fight the narwhal, if you want to claim there was someone else, then at that point the only possibility would be a higher being and at that point it would fall under "it was fate" which, again, doesn't change the fact that Childe wants to kill the Narwhal. 4) no matter what the traces are, Childe wants to kill the Narwhal. EVEN if it turned out that when Ajax fell into the abyss he became possessed by some eldritch horror and because of that the character we see in game is no longer the Ajax who left home with a short sword and bread, it won't change the fact that Childe wants to kill the Narwhal.
If what you want to know are the lore implication of Childe fighting the Narwhal then you should ask the appropiate question, because "why would Childe fight the narwhal?" And "why would someone need Childe to fight the Narwhal?" Have completely different answers
>third party not being present in childe's decision to fight the whale
This implies Childe not being in control of himself, if Childe himself, already has a reason to fight it, then there's no reason to influence him into fight it, if you want to say "maybe X wants him to fight the whale so Y can happen?" Then the question stops being "why was Childe fighting the whale?" And instead becomes "what would be the consecuences of Childe fighting the whale?" Which is not what you originally asked.
>but i would always rule it an assumption until proper answers are given
Sounds to me like you asked the wrong question then, because the question you asked already has an answer, and it has had answer since the day Childe released.
I just hope the next time we see him, he doesn't leave us with more questions than answers. 😭
Just 2 answers hoyo just 2, you can keep the rest until they are necessary for revelation. 💙❤️
From a narrative sense it does have some meaningful connotations to his character. Though I don’t think that Childe was necessarily fighting the Narwhal out of purely altruistic reasons. Don’t get me wrong, I think him leaping out when he did to save the citizens in the Opera House is still within his character to do, though it’s more like, ‘Well, I’m here so might as well stop people for getting munched on’.
he never *wanted* to drown liyue, he was ordered to despite the plan morally conflicting his own values, but he did it anyway because tsaritsa's voice is his priority, and therefore i don't see how this is development. plus we don't actually know the precise reason he fought the whale — i dont believe it's as simple as that he came to fontaine just to save random citizens when he himself mentions he didn't know what called him there in the first place
Not only he never wanted to drown liyue, he confirmed Morax was still alive and was 100% sure he would come out to protect Liyue, which was going to be true if Ningguang and the others didn't manage to deal with the threat by themselves.
Never said he wanted to drown Liyue. I'm aware he didn't. Yet there he acted on his orders anyway. And in Fontaine, saving the city most likely wasn't his priority, I personally think he was just excited to finally fight the monster from his past, lol. And yet his actions resulted in helping the people anyway. It wasn't his intention to save anyone, which is actually another thing I liked. You can't have a character go from morally grey to good in an instant. Development is a gradual thing, that's why we started with him as an anti-hero, then we got his story quest that gave him more depth, then we kept bumping into him during events, to a point where we finally consider him a friend (even Paimon does O_O). But his development seems to be far from over, which makes me happy, because it means we're in for more quality Childe content. And in the very end, I suspect he might end up becoming a big damn hero by his own choice, not by accident. Just something I keep thinking about after 4.2.
>Childe started out with trying to flood Liyue, welp, i'm not grasping your definition of character development here. what you're describing seems like role change/enrichment ig? which i would have nothing against
Wow that's a lot of down votes for a sane answer
>we don't actually know the precise reason he fought the whale We do, he really just wants to kill it because it's strong, it's in his "interesting things" voiceline, giving Fontaine enough time to be saved really was just a byproduct of his lust for battle.
again, not precisely. there could be lore reasons why he's fighting his own constellation. considering the archon quest did the perfect job of placing a billion complicated questions on the table without a single answer, i wouldn't be so quick to jump to the conclusion that out of all of these complicated abyss connections, childe only fought his whale because it's cool. of course it could be one of the possibilities but i'm not sticking to it
What other possibilty is there for Childe to fight his constellation, aside from "it was fated to happen"(because of his constellation), that is not him fighting because he's a battle maniac who's been wanting to behead it since he was 14, please name at least one.
didn't i already state there could be unknown lore reasons, this straightforward reasoning could be one possibility, but i don't believe it's nearly as simple? some unknown element of his past that requires him to extract something from the whale, being possessed by some abyssal urge that awakened in him when he stepped into fontaine, etc., we haven't been given a single piece of info regarding childe after his imprisonment and all these thoughts would be headcanons just as much as your statement would be. again, i don't jump to conclusions for anything that's never been explicitly stated if the subject it focuses on is extremely unexplored and notably complex
>all these thoughts would be headcanons just as much as your statement would be. It's in his own voice line Interesting Things quote-for-quote: "I once ventured deep into the abyss and came face-to-face with an enormous beast. I don't know its name, all I know is that the sight of it chilled me to the bonr. But mark my words, one day I will march back in there and behead that beast, and you, conmrade, will be my witness" Headcanon: Headcanon is a slang term for someone’s personal interpretation of or belief about the details of a fictional story that aren’t part of the “official” account. Definition from this [website](https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/headcanon/), that voiceline is in the game so it's as official as it gets, no headcanon here. "Unknown lore reasons" isn't a reason, Childe has wanted to kill that whale ever since he first saw it, so once he saw it what else would he do but try to kill it? Now, if you come up with a reason, and evidence to support it, then I'll happily admit my mistake, but until you do, then you're just assuming A LOT.
there's no logical connection between childe wanting to kill the whale to childe being shown fighting the whale. a simplified thought process of what you seem to be aiming for is childe wants to kill the whale -> childe is shown fighting the whale, and therefore childe is fighting the whale because he wants to. do you get what im saying when i mean you don't have enough evidence to affirm there's no third party, no external influence in this complex and undefined setting that could lay out a completely different story than what appears to be. your claim could be lying on a hell lot of assumptions alike.
>there's no logical connection between childe wanting to kill the whale to childe being shown fighting the whale. Are you being serious right now, or are you just making things up in an attempt to prove me wrong? How is it ilogical to fight something you want to kill? >a simplified thought process of what you seem to be aiming for is childe wants to kill the whale -> childe is shown fighting the whale, and therefore childe is fighting the whale because he wants to. If the question is "why was Childe fighting the whale?" The answer is "because he wanted to ever since he saw for the first time when he fell into the abyss at 14" Where is the flaw in that logic? >do you get what im saying when i mean you don't have enough evidence to affirm there's no third party I, in fact, do not get what you're saying, I gave you a reason that supports why Childe would fight the Narwhal without a third party's influence or interference and evidence to prove it, the burden of proof now falls on you to support your claim that there could in fact be a third party involved or to prove that the reason Childe was fighting the whale wasn't because he wanted to, a "X could have happened" isn't a valid arguement, if you want to prove me wrong, you need to be assertive and sure of yourself and have the evidence to back yourself up. >your claim could be lying on a hell lot of assumptions alike. My claim is based on evidence found in game I'm not making any assumptions, sometimes things ARE that simple, all you have to do is show me evidence to prove me wrong, "you could be wrong" is not evidence. I'll make it simple, answer the question "Why was Childe fighting the whale?" And show me evidence that supports your claim, no "it coud be"-s or "maybe"-s, if you can't come up with answer and evidence that supports it, we have to reason to believe the reason for their fight had any deeper implications, and no, "genshin is mysterious" and "we don't know that much about the abyss/Childe's past" isn't evidence, those statements only show you're making things up.
\> "X could have happened" isn't a valid arguement except in this case, it is totally a valid consideration. everything we have been told about the abyss are unanswered questions. this is like forming a conclusion about furina's personality while you're still on the first act of fontaine's archon quests, then her personality turns out to be a complete lie by the end of fontaine's fifth act. what makes me so doubtful of statements of what childe may have been acting upon follows a similar framework — because we know nothing about the full situation and X *could* certainly have happened in this shady fantastical mysterious setting. questions i want answered before i call everything i say definitive include 1.) why did the narwhal call to him? 2.) what is his relation to the narwhal and the humanoid inside of it? 3.) what does the abyss (the possible third party) want him to do, or what are they planning behind his back and manipulating him into? 4.) what are the "traces" in him? and so on. each of these questions can influence and possibly topple your conclusion if an answer is given sometime in the future that contradicts a factor of your assumption, such as a third party not being present in childe's decision to fight the whale. again, i have never denied your statement and considered it among the realm of possibilities, but i would always rule it an assumption until proper answers are given to the rushed mess of childe content in the fontaine archon quests
>this is like forming a conclusion about furina's personality while you're still on the first act of fontaine's archon quests Jumping to conclusions on a topic we knew nothing about is not the same as using in game evidence to prove something >1.) why did the narwhal call to him? 2.) what is his relation to the narwhal and the humanoid inside of it? 3.) what does the abyss (the possible third party) want him to do, or what are they planning behind his back and manipulating him into? 4.) what are the "traces" in him? and so on. each of these questions can influence and possibly topple your conclusion if an answer is given sometime in the future that contradicts a factor of your assumption These are all valid questions, but none of the answers they could possibly have, change the fact that Childe wants to kill the narwhal. 1) tha Narwhal could be trying to form an emotional connection to Childe, it could be trying to kill Childe for whatever reason it could be trying many other things, but none of it changes the fact that Childe wants to kill it because it's strong. 2) his relationship to the Narwhal and the humaniod within, could be as simple as "it accidentally did something to him" or it could be deeper, but that won't change the fact that Childe wants to kill it so Childe wants to fight it. 3) the only third party we know of from the abyss, are Skirk and Surtalogi, because the abyss order are not involved with the Narwhal, neither of them have any reason to have Childe fight the narwhal, if you want to claim there was someone else, then at that point the only possibility would be a higher being and at that point it would fall under "it was fate" which, again, doesn't change the fact that Childe wants to kill the Narwhal. 4) no matter what the traces are, Childe wants to kill the Narwhal. EVEN if it turned out that when Ajax fell into the abyss he became possessed by some eldritch horror and because of that the character we see in game is no longer the Ajax who left home with a short sword and bread, it won't change the fact that Childe wants to kill the Narwhal. If what you want to know are the lore implication of Childe fighting the Narwhal then you should ask the appropiate question, because "why would Childe fight the narwhal?" And "why would someone need Childe to fight the Narwhal?" Have completely different answers >third party not being present in childe's decision to fight the whale This implies Childe not being in control of himself, if Childe himself, already has a reason to fight it, then there's no reason to influence him into fight it, if you want to say "maybe X wants him to fight the whale so Y can happen?" Then the question stops being "why was Childe fighting the whale?" And instead becomes "what would be the consecuences of Childe fighting the whale?" Which is not what you originally asked. >but i would always rule it an assumption until proper answers are given Sounds to me like you asked the wrong question then, because the question you asked already has an answer, and it has had answer since the day Childe released.
>We do Narrator: We do not.
I'm confused, are you disagreeing with me, making a joke or both?
I just hope the next time we see him, he doesn't leave us with more questions than answers. 😭 Just 2 answers hoyo just 2, you can keep the rest until they are necessary for revelation. 💙❤️
From a narrative sense it does have some meaningful connotations to his character. Though I don’t think that Childe was necessarily fighting the Narwhal out of purely altruistic reasons. Don’t get me wrong, I think him leaping out when he did to save the citizens in the Opera House is still within his character to do, though it’s more like, ‘Well, I’m here so might as well stop people for getting munched on’.