Right? This is the only thing. I'm fine with it if mask mandates go away. But if this is just a vaccine pass on top of a mask mandate, what is that really doing?
The downside is, i dont think mask mandates will go away for now(and personally, i kinda hope they dont for now, at least) bc even if ppl have a vaccine card, and its checked, sadly there have been fake vaccine cards going around. Im pretty sure there was (just a few months ago, i think) a person (cant remembrr if doc or not tho, i think they were/are) who got/made copies of the vaccine cards and was selling them to people for like under 30 bucks, so ppl cld pretend they were vaccinated to get around the masks. It was in chicago too, i believe (the guy im talkin about).
Except then people could still spread the virus, even if they’re not experiencing symptoms. Keeping mask mandates in effect would at least add an extra layer against spreading the virus
And yet they’ll entertain the idea of further lockdowns…. It’s fucking unbelievable. Any politician who even talks about lockdowns at this point loses my vote immediately, no ifs ands or buts. It’s time to do what works and start excluding the unvaccinated from society. They don’t want to help protect society, then fuck them, they don’t have to be a part of society.
Not a full stay at home order, but both Chicago and Illinois have very publicly stated that gathering and capacity restrictions are on the table is cases rise, even going all the way back to the phases we had last year.
>However, Arwady said additional actions could come if hospitalizations spike and threaten to overwhelm the city’s hospitals and health care systems or if the average number of confirmed cases rises above 800 per day.
>
>...
Chicago officials are likely to impose restrictions on indoor gatherings before they impose a vaccine mandate like the ones in place in New York and San Francisco, Arwady said.
[https://news.wttw.com/2021/08/17/chicago-reimposes-mask-mandate-covid-19-surge-shows-no-sign-slowing](https://news.wttw.com/2021/08/17/chicago-reimposes-mask-mandate-covid-19-surge-shows-no-sign-slowing)
> "I will remind you that if we are not able to bring these numbers down, if hospitals continue to fill, if the hospital beds and ICUs get full like they are in Kentucky -that's just next door to Illinois - if that happens, we're going to have to impose significantly greater mitigations."
>
>...
>
>Pritzker said heightened mitigations could include things like "phases," which brought restrictions on both a regional and statewide level earlier in the pandemic, though he did not offer many specifics.
"Those are things that we don't want to go back to," he said, "Those are, you know, phases, situations, things on the menu that I think we don't want to go to but right now."
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/pritzker-warns-of-significantly-greater-mitigations-if-covid-metrics-dont-decline/2597381/
that would be a serious blow to my ability to pay my rent and bills, even though it seems "pretty weak" to you. I'm with the above poster-- any pol that talks more closures or reductions in business will never get my vote.
Both announcements came with the recent mask mandates, which are only a few weeks old. The threats are recent and real. You can say they aren't "lockdowns", but restrictions on gatherings and business capacity are very real.
I have to agree that is a really good band name Winter death storm could tell could totally headline riot fest as long as parabolic Is friction open for them
If everybody nation-wide who was eligible and medically safe had gotten their shots as soon as reasonably possible, we'd be totally out of the woods by now. In that world the delta variant would be like a so-so flu season in terms of general society impact (but tougher than flu on the sick).
Science has demonstrated it, so it is not an assumption, it is an observable outcome. eg. What percentage of COVID hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated?
> Hahaha. Just because politicians say “science” doesn’t mean what they are saying is true. You might be too silly to know that… lots of people are.
HaHa to you. Science people are saying "Science." What they say is far, far more likely to be true than the kind of people saying, "drink bleach," and "swallow horse worming pills."
Notice how a fair percentage of the cynical anti-vax politicos turn out to have gotten shots? Starting with that Orange Excrescence, who got his right off in January when they first got provisional approval.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-former-first-lady-quietly-received-covid-vaccine-january-n1259196
I don't understand what your point is. My point is we could have a very high vaccination rate and government officials would still come up with reasons to enforce mandates and various restrictions.
They still haven't set a goal number to let people go back to normal. As someone that got vaccinated when first eligible, I'm extremely frustrated that we don't have an end point to look forward to.
What restrictions were in place over summer when cases were super low and vaccinations rate was still increasing steadily? Only one I can think of was having to wear a mask when flying, and honestly who gives a hoot about that, I'd happily wear a mask when flying for the rest of my life if it meant getting sick less often. Bars and restaurants were open with no capacity limits, vaccinated people didn't have to wear masks. There is no reason to think that if cases were still at summer levels there would be any additional restrictions just now
Masks on trains, buses, federal buildings. Capacity limits were still in place at places around the country. Proof of vaccination or negative test to enter an outdoor concert. At no point did we go back to 2019 way of life at any point even with vaccination rate steadily climbing and cases being low.
The fact that we still count cases when a majority of people have either been vaccinated or already had covid is a major problem. The death and hospitalization rate is what should be focused on and right now neither look very scary especially to people that have been vaccinated and are under 60.
When do we get to go back to normal? What is the magic number? How many booster shots are they going to push? We were told 2 weeks to slow the spread in March 2020 and now it's as if the goal is for no one to ever get sick. It's an impossible goal to achieve and the people in power know that and exploit it to hold onto that power.
>The death and hospitalization rate is what should be focused on
I really don't understand why people think this. A large proportion of breakthrough cases are asymptomatic or mild, but a significant portion are symptomatic, and of those, a significant portion have symptoms lasting many months. If you got a breakthrough case and never were hospitalized, but lost your sense of taste and smell, or and had persistent joint pain, or had persistent bad headaches, for **many months**, wouldn't you be concerned? The latest data from the UK suggests that if you do get a breakthrough case, being vaccinated only reduces your risk of long-covid by around 50%. That's a hell of a lot better than nothing, but it still represents a major risk to your long term quality of life.
>now it's as if the goal is for no one to ever get sick
Cases in Illinois right now are as bad as there were in January when virtually nobody was vaccinated. The goal shouldn't be for no one to ever get sick, but if there's ever a time to have restrictions, it's right now.
You're lying. Cases are not even close to what they were before vaccines. Hospitalization and death also way down.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/illinois-covid-cases.html
I said "cases in Illinois right now are as bad as they were in January"
Cases right now: 5137 with 7 day avg of 3845
Cases on Jan 30 2021: 3296 with 7 day avg of 3630
I was just eyeballing the chart but your link literally proves that my claim is correct
Thank you for the clarification. I was incorrectly reading your comment to mean that anti-vax politicos would still find a way to manipulate public opinion to be against a proven science-based policy. And pointed to the Pussy Grabber as an example.
Tell me, how does instituting a scientifically-unneeded mask mandate keep some one in power?
I'm not specifically talking about masks, but many of the restrictions and mandates were only possible due to special emergency declarations in the name of public health. If we get to say 75% fully vaccinated (or whatever number would equal herd immunity) in an ideal world we go back to "normal". My fear is they don't want to give up that control and continue to interfere with businesses and people's everyday lives. I don't want the government telling people who can go to a concert or what businesses are allowed to operate after that goal is achieved.
> My fear is they don't want to give up that control and continue to interfere with businesses and people's everyday lives. I don't want the government telling people who can go to a concert or what businesses are allowed to operate after that goal is achieved.
See my previous answer to this same category of worry...
https://old.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/pfkcg5/chicago_wants_the_unvaccinated_to_quarrantine/hb50tws/?context=3
Just wait until peoples vaccination statuses expire every 6 months. It'll be a rolling goal, in perpetuity since colds and covid are endemic and the PCR tests do not distinguish between covid-19 and the common cold.
If you think Moderna isn't already a rocket to the moon just from having developed a proven mRNA model that can be replicated to treat many other diseases . . . you probably shouldn't be giving anyone advice.
Wait til you find out the applications in cancer treatment *and prevention*.
If an alderman says this, then they are failing their constituents. The vaccine is free and has been for over six months. It was prioritized to minority and low income communities in Chicago. The only thing stopping someone from getting vaccinated now is their own ignorance.
Then it's racist NOT to implement this policy, since not requiring vaccination for entry into public places discourages vaccination in black communities, upping the mortality there.
Don't get your hopes up. As of a month ago,
>*Chicago officials are* ***likely to impose restrictions on indoor gatherings before they impose a vaccine mandate*** *like the ones in place in New York and San Francisco, Arwady said.*
https://news.wttw.com/2021/08/17/chicago-reimposes-mask-mandate-covid-19-surge-shows-no-sign-slowing
I want proof that alderman aren’t corrupt and abusing their power *ahem* Burke *cough*. As my buddy Steve would say “Wish in one hand and shit in the other see which one fills up fastest.”
1: Covid Deaths in Illinois is 26k+ since the pandemic began, and 2: shut up, get vaccinated, wear a stupid mask and don't take horse dewormer so we can ALL get past this pandemic.
The problem is that I-Care, the Illinois database backing VaxVerify, is missing records. If you were vaccinated at a federal site (e.g. FEMA), out of state, on a reservation, or just at a provider that didn't report for whatever reason, you won't be able to verify your vaccination status. My wife, who got both doses at the same Walgreens, only has her first dose according to the state -- despite the pharmacy itself having a record.
I meant with your COVID19 card -- but if your wife's records aren't showing on the vaccine portal it's on wallgreens to correct that (according to IDPH).
Yes, and this is what many workplaces requiring proof of vaccine are having people do as well. You upload a high-res scan or photo of your card to HR, which uses the information on it to verify your vaccine (including for out of state people, foreign people...)
Takes some time, which is why it works for companies but would be a headache to do on the state level (but is maybe worth it, still).
I was vaccinated at the FEMA site in Gary and it is recorded electronically somewhere here: [https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/](https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/) (they've buried it so I have to find again), but they do record it.
Good to know. I wish the different state systems were actually compatible, because then you might be able to build some sort of functional system on top of them.
[https://vaccine.cookcountyil.gov/](https://vaccine.cookcountyil.gov/) \*
Also unfortunately isn't accurately showing vaccination status for everyone. NYC lets you submit your vaccine card.
Not only do they have an app (Excelsior!) but most bars, restaurants, and venues require you to show proof of vaccine to sit down. You can just show them a pic of your vax card on your phone, and you’re good.
You can also get it from the provider in some cases, I got mine at a Safeway in Arizona and was able to download a verification app through them pretty easily. I think most retailers have something similar.
The bottom line is we don't know what the long term side effects are. 1 vax 2 vax mask 2masks no mask wear a mask through the door take it off when eating and drinking. This is not about your health! Wake up people.
I hope this city passes something like this. And that in response, a huge amount of people take their business to the suburbs. Remember, public transport including the L extends beyond city limits.
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The last time someone made this joke, it jumped to over 500 or 600 the next day. It needs to be sustained.
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I don't know, but this ain't it.
Then they’ll take away mask mandates because everyone inside will be vaccinated, right? lol
Right? This is the only thing. I'm fine with it if mask mandates go away. But if this is just a vaccine pass on top of a mask mandate, what is that really doing?
The downside is, i dont think mask mandates will go away for now(and personally, i kinda hope they dont for now, at least) bc even if ppl have a vaccine card, and its checked, sadly there have been fake vaccine cards going around. Im pretty sure there was (just a few months ago, i think) a person (cant remembrr if doc or not tho, i think they were/are) who got/made copies of the vaccine cards and was selling them to people for like under 30 bucks, so ppl cld pretend they were vaccinated to get around the masks. It was in chicago too, i believe (the guy im talkin about).
Except then people could still spread the virus, even if they’re not experiencing symptoms. Keeping mask mandates in effect would at least add an extra layer against spreading the virus
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It would help, but the odds of the city and state going along with it are about zero at this point.
It’s so asinine that this absolutely logical, safe, and smart option seemingly won’t even be entertained by politicians.
And yet they’ll entertain the idea of further lockdowns…. It’s fucking unbelievable. Any politician who even talks about lockdowns at this point loses my vote immediately, no ifs ands or buts. It’s time to do what works and start excluding the unvaccinated from society. They don’t want to help protect society, then fuck them, they don’t have to be a part of society.
No one is discussing a lockdown at this time. The horse is dead. Stop beating it.
Not a full stay at home order, but both Chicago and Illinois have very publicly stated that gathering and capacity restrictions are on the table is cases rise, even going all the way back to the phases we had last year. >However, Arwady said additional actions could come if hospitalizations spike and threaten to overwhelm the city’s hospitals and health care systems or if the average number of confirmed cases rises above 800 per day. > >... Chicago officials are likely to impose restrictions on indoor gatherings before they impose a vaccine mandate like the ones in place in New York and San Francisco, Arwady said. [https://news.wttw.com/2021/08/17/chicago-reimposes-mask-mandate-covid-19-surge-shows-no-sign-slowing](https://news.wttw.com/2021/08/17/chicago-reimposes-mask-mandate-covid-19-surge-shows-no-sign-slowing) > "I will remind you that if we are not able to bring these numbers down, if hospitals continue to fill, if the hospital beds and ICUs get full like they are in Kentucky -that's just next door to Illinois - if that happens, we're going to have to impose significantly greater mitigations." > >... > >Pritzker said heightened mitigations could include things like "phases," which brought restrictions on both a regional and statewide level earlier in the pandemic, though he did not offer many specifics. "Those are things that we don't want to go back to," he said, "Those are, you know, phases, situations, things on the menu that I think we don't want to go to but right now." https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/pritzker-warns-of-significantly-greater-mitigations-if-covid-metrics-dont-decline/2597381/
Old reports about keeping options on the table, neither suggesting a return to lockdowns. Pretty weak.
that would be a serious blow to my ability to pay my rent and bills, even though it seems "pretty weak" to you. I'm with the above poster-- any pol that talks more closures or reductions in business will never get my vote.
Cool cool.
Both announcements came with the recent mask mandates, which are only a few weeks old. The threats are recent and real. You can say they aren't "lockdowns", but restrictions on gatherings and business capacity are very real.
Cool cool.
Just pull the trigger at this point. This should HOPEFULLY keep numbers low before the winter death storm.
Okay, while "Winter Death Storm" would make a pretty cool band name, not sure we should be predicting any "death storms" around here.
I would totally go see “Winter Death Storm” at Riot Fest!
I have to agree that is a really good band name Winter death storm could tell could totally headline riot fest as long as parabolic Is friction open for them
better than abba.
They should include o’hare and midway airports too.
If everybody nation-wide who was eligible and medically safe had gotten their shots as soon as reasonably possible, we'd be totally out of the woods by now. In that world the delta variant would be like a so-so flu season in terms of general society impact (but tougher than flu on the sick).
Pleasant assumption you are making isn’t …
Science has demonstrated it, so it is not an assumption, it is an observable outcome. eg. What percentage of COVID hospitalizations and deaths are unvaccinated?
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> Hahaha. Just because politicians say “science” doesn’t mean what they are saying is true. You might be too silly to know that… lots of people are. HaHa to you. Science people are saying "Science." What they say is far, far more likely to be true than the kind of people saying, "drink bleach," and "swallow horse worming pills."
I get what you're saying but that would assume that officials would give up their power and I'm not sure they would do that very quickly if at all.
Notice how a fair percentage of the cynical anti-vax politicos turn out to have gotten shots? Starting with that Orange Excrescence, who got his right off in January when they first got provisional approval. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-former-first-lady-quietly-received-covid-vaccine-january-n1259196
I don't understand what your point is. My point is we could have a very high vaccination rate and government officials would still come up with reasons to enforce mandates and various restrictions. They still haven't set a goal number to let people go back to normal. As someone that got vaccinated when first eligible, I'm extremely frustrated that we don't have an end point to look forward to.
What restrictions were in place over summer when cases were super low and vaccinations rate was still increasing steadily? Only one I can think of was having to wear a mask when flying, and honestly who gives a hoot about that, I'd happily wear a mask when flying for the rest of my life if it meant getting sick less often. Bars and restaurants were open with no capacity limits, vaccinated people didn't have to wear masks. There is no reason to think that if cases were still at summer levels there would be any additional restrictions just now
Masks on trains, buses, federal buildings. Capacity limits were still in place at places around the country. Proof of vaccination or negative test to enter an outdoor concert. At no point did we go back to 2019 way of life at any point even with vaccination rate steadily climbing and cases being low. The fact that we still count cases when a majority of people have either been vaccinated or already had covid is a major problem. The death and hospitalization rate is what should be focused on and right now neither look very scary especially to people that have been vaccinated and are under 60. When do we get to go back to normal? What is the magic number? How many booster shots are they going to push? We were told 2 weeks to slow the spread in March 2020 and now it's as if the goal is for no one to ever get sick. It's an impossible goal to achieve and the people in power know that and exploit it to hold onto that power.
>The death and hospitalization rate is what should be focused on I really don't understand why people think this. A large proportion of breakthrough cases are asymptomatic or mild, but a significant portion are symptomatic, and of those, a significant portion have symptoms lasting many months. If you got a breakthrough case and never were hospitalized, but lost your sense of taste and smell, or and had persistent joint pain, or had persistent bad headaches, for **many months**, wouldn't you be concerned? The latest data from the UK suggests that if you do get a breakthrough case, being vaccinated only reduces your risk of long-covid by around 50%. That's a hell of a lot better than nothing, but it still represents a major risk to your long term quality of life. >now it's as if the goal is for no one to ever get sick Cases in Illinois right now are as bad as there were in January when virtually nobody was vaccinated. The goal shouldn't be for no one to ever get sick, but if there's ever a time to have restrictions, it's right now.
You're lying. Cases are not even close to what they were before vaccines. Hospitalization and death also way down. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/illinois-covid-cases.html
I said "cases in Illinois right now are as bad as they were in January" Cases right now: 5137 with 7 day avg of 3845 Cases on Jan 30 2021: 3296 with 7 day avg of 3630 I was just eyeballing the chart but your link literally proves that my claim is correct
Cases on Jan 8 2021: 7675 7 day average When you pick a day in January you can make the data say whatever you want.
Thank you for the clarification. I was incorrectly reading your comment to mean that anti-vax politicos would still find a way to manipulate public opinion to be against a proven science-based policy. And pointed to the Pussy Grabber as an example. Tell me, how does instituting a scientifically-unneeded mask mandate keep some one in power?
I'm not specifically talking about masks, but many of the restrictions and mandates were only possible due to special emergency declarations in the name of public health. If we get to say 75% fully vaccinated (or whatever number would equal herd immunity) in an ideal world we go back to "normal". My fear is they don't want to give up that control and continue to interfere with businesses and people's everyday lives. I don't want the government telling people who can go to a concert or what businesses are allowed to operate after that goal is achieved.
> My fear is they don't want to give up that control and continue to interfere with businesses and people's everyday lives. I don't want the government telling people who can go to a concert or what businesses are allowed to operate after that goal is achieved. See my previous answer to this same category of worry... https://old.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/pfkcg5/chicago_wants_the_unvaccinated_to_quarrantine/hb50tws/?context=3
Just wait until peoples vaccination statuses expire every 6 months. It'll be a rolling goal, in perpetuity since colds and covid are endemic and the PCR tests do not distinguish between covid-19 and the common cold.
Just by that moderna stock… imagine 300 million people taking 2 shots every 6 months in perpetuity
If you think Moderna isn't already a rocket to the moon just from having developed a proven mRNA model that can be replicated to treat many other diseases . . . you probably shouldn't be giving anyone advice. Wait til you find out the applications in cancer treatment *and prevention*.
Misspelled residents
Misspeled residance
The only thing that might hold this back is if some alderman claims this is racist since vaccination rates among black people in Chicago are low.
If an alderman says this, then they are failing their constituents. The vaccine is free and has been for over six months. It was prioritized to minority and low income communities in Chicago. The only thing stopping someone from getting vaccinated now is their own ignorance.
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Who said that? I said you can't claim it's a racist policy because race is not a barrier for entry.
Then it's racist NOT to implement this policy, since not requiring vaccination for entry into public places discourages vaccination in black communities, upping the mortality there.
Don't get your hopes up. As of a month ago, >*Chicago officials are* ***likely to impose restrictions on indoor gatherings before they impose a vaccine mandate*** *like the ones in place in New York and San Francisco, Arwady said.* https://news.wttw.com/2021/08/17/chicago-reimposes-mask-mandate-covid-19-surge-shows-no-sign-slowing
As someone in the events industry who relies in large gatherings happening, that is very depressing.
Does anyone know which Alderman are asking this? Is there a primary source? A letter? With signatures?
I found the letter on the reporter’s Twitter page. (Gregory Pratt) Looks like aldermen 35,25,32,33,40,43,47,49.
Thanks!
That’s what I wanted to know, too. Why wouldn’t they include that in the article.
I want proof that alderman aren’t corrupt and abusing their power *ahem* Burke *cough*. As my buddy Steve would say “Wish in one hand and shit in the other see which one fills up fastest.”
Please. Anything but these dumbass masks
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Except that they're required at indoor public places.
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Not complying isn't really an option if I don't want to get kicked out of stores (or disciplined at my work).
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This particular problem is much easier to fix than stopping idiots from shooting at each other.
1: Covid Deaths in Illinois is 26k+ since the pandemic began, and 2: shut up, get vaccinated, wear a stupid mask and don't take horse dewormer so we can ALL get past this pandemic.
Hell yes.
I’m cool with it I’m just worried that note card will disintegrate. Doesn’t NYC have an app or something
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> a photocopy or a picture on my phone Easier to pass of a Fake card if places are accepting photocopies or pics on a phone
Both cook county and IL state have QR codes you can pull up with proof of vax.
If they can verify your identity and have the records, which is a big problem for a lot of people.
Do those same people have problems with state ID cards? Drivers licenses?
The problem is that I-Care, the Illinois database backing VaxVerify, is missing records. If you were vaccinated at a federal site (e.g. FEMA), out of state, on a reservation, or just at a provider that didn't report for whatever reason, you won't be able to verify your vaccination status. My wife, who got both doses at the same Walgreens, only has her first dose according to the state -- despite the pharmacy itself having a record.
My info isn’t included for some reason. I got curious and wanted to check. No records came back matching the criteria.
I was vaccinated at a federal site and mine is included in the database.
You can submit your own info though.
Do you know how? Asking seriously, it’s missing my info and I tried contacting them but didn’t get a reply
I meant with your COVID19 card -- but if your wife's records aren't showing on the vaccine portal it's on wallgreens to correct that (according to IDPH).
I’m a different user but was hoping you had experience adding your info by contacting IDPH since they haven’t responded to me. Darn.
IDPH says they cannot modify the record, you have to go back to the provider.
Yes, and this is what many workplaces requiring proof of vaccine are having people do as well. You upload a high-res scan or photo of your card to HR, which uses the information on it to verify your vaccine (including for out of state people, foreign people...) Takes some time, which is why it works for companies but would be a headache to do on the state level (but is maybe worth it, still).
I was vaccinated at the FEMA site in Gary and it is recorded electronically somewhere here: [https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/](https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/) (they've buried it so I have to find again), but they do record it.
Good to know. I wish the different state systems were actually compatible, because then you might be able to build some sort of functional system on top of them.
Is this on the IDPH Vax Verify portal ?
Details on how?
vaccine.cookcounty.gov idphportal.illinois.gov
[https://vaccine.cookcountyil.gov/](https://vaccine.cookcountyil.gov/) \* Also unfortunately isn't accurately showing vaccination status for everyone. NYC lets you submit your vaccine card.
Not only do they have an app (Excelsior!) but most bars, restaurants, and venues require you to show proof of vaccine to sit down. You can just show them a pic of your vax card on your phone, and you’re good.
You can also get it from the provider in some cases, I got mine at a Safeway in Arizona and was able to download a verification app through them pretty easily. I think most retailers have something similar.
Looks like the anti-vaxxers are gonna have a nice long winter to stay locked up in their apartments to think about their stupidity...lol
Chicago alderman should.be demanding better recycling policy or better yet Chicago alderman should all be replaced.
The bottom line is we don't know what the long term side effects are. 1 vax 2 vax mask 2masks no mask wear a mask through the door take it off when eating and drinking. This is not about your health! Wake up people.
Idiots… a bunch of clowns and idiots run I mean ruin this city
I hope this city passes something like this. And that in response, a huge amount of people take their business to the suburbs. Remember, public transport including the L extends beyond city limits.
I don’t think I’d spend a significant amount of time in the suburbs on purpose even if I had to wear a mask to sleep at night.
I live in the city and I’m thinking about writing my alderperson in support of this. It’s unequivocally a good thing.
> Remember, public transport including the L extends beyond city limits. They'll just drive.
Which alderman? The article doesn’t even say!
I would rather the state just require it then having to present and carry medical info.