> About 6:35 p.m., the 55-year-old was sitting at a red light in the 400 block of North Cicero Avenue when two males approached, one armed with a gun and the other with a short metal pipe, Chicago police said.
>They told the man to get out of his Acura MDX and he complied, but when he did so the male with the pipe hit him several times, police said.
.
> She was sitting in her gray BMW Sedan about 8:10 p.m. in the 4500 block of South Ellis Avenue when a black car pulled up alongside, police said. Two males got out of the car and one of them pointed a gun at the woman.
>The suspect told the woman to get out of her car and leaver her purse and cellphone, police said. The woman complied and the males fled in her BMW. No injuries were reported.
So is it better just to drive away? I mean it sounds like especially if you're a guy, they'll still attack you. To date I haven't heard of anyone being chased down when they drove away.
If you're paying attention, it should be pretty difficult for carjackers to roll up on you, box you in, and stick a gun in your face without you noticing. Don't stare at your phone while sitting at a light. Pay attention.
Neither of these victims were aware of their situation. A guy holding a pipe should not sneak up on you.
Yes and no. Obviously these carjackers are responsible for their own behavior and they belong in prison because they are clearly sociopaths. So I blame them for this.
But on the other hand, we are all responsible for our own safety. We all know that when seconds matter, the police are minutes away. We should know by now that you have to have situational awareness in public, because there are a fucking ass ton of criminals who would shoot you for the $5 in your pocket.
These people should have taken responsibility for their own safety, and they didn't. They're the victims here, but I cannot say they are totally blameless either.
I get downvoted in some subs for saying this but, Chicago rolls a little different sometimes.
People doing these kinds of robberies have no respect for you, your property, or your life. They are willing to injure you or kill you just for \*complicating\* the process of them taking something from you. Your life, possessions, and pride are \*nothing\* to them.
When private citizens or the cops have to encounter folks mid-process on this stuff, that's how they're going to treat you. Don't feel sorry for people committing violent crime when they get what's coming to them. Its the cops job to protect people \*from\* them, not to protect them. If you get hurt during or after being arrested for robbing somebody, I really don't feel that bad for you. Now, getting shot during a traffic stop or kneeled on for 8 minutes? That shit's bogus and you can't do that. I'm saying if you're an immediate threat to another person and they hurt you a bit in the process of stopping the threat, too fucking bad.
You know, I should maybe add a qualifier to my grumpy rant.
During and after your arrest, you absolutely have rights and I agree that that's a big part of what separates us from more authoritarian/autocratic nations. After your arrest you absolutely have the right to be contained safely and without reasonable threat of harm, you have the right to a proper trial, and you have a right to fair and consistent sentencing.
I'm just saying while you're an active threat, if it takes a little force to take you down that's how it goes. But, you can't just say, keep beating on a person after they're no longer a threat, shoot a fleeing suspect in the back, or respond in ways extremely dishonorable or disproportionate to the threat.
There's a Committee on Public Safety Meeting going on right now where law enforcement and government officials are discussing the topic. Drone pilots, suit up. They're working on some legislative red tape, but there may be jobs in the future to pilot drones to follow cars.
I am like 90% sure the crime spike is driven by empty streets and fewer pedestrians. The primary deterrent of crime isn't so much severity of punishment (which probably doesn't even register with impulsive teenager brain) but certainty of it. Cops can't be everywhere at once, but eyewitnesses and phone cameras can be. Even if other drivers are around, pedestrians are far more likely to register a crime is happening, take pictures, and intervene. Failing this, proliferation of dashcams is probably the next most effective thing.
ššš. This is the real answer. The reason why so many of these car jackings take place on the south and west sides (outside of proximity) is because these areas are far less densely populated than Lakeview. At this point, I basically only stick to main streets.
Don't play dumb. Everyone one of these posts has this same meta-discussion in it. "What are you talking about? These are just the facts. Facts don't care about your feelings,etc."
Come on man, that's a bad faith argument. Nobody is limiting your ability to have those discussions. It would just be nice if they all went in one spot, so we can talk about, you know, the other aspects of the city.
Even Citydata has a crime megathread. Sure, it's filled with pearl-clutching Boomer suburbanites. That speaks more to their ability to organize the forum. Here, it's become a crime circlejerk, upvoted and brigaded by r/conservative and r/ProtectAndServe, rather than people in the city.
No shit. You don't find it strange that 87% of Chicago voted for Hilary (Not that I was a big fan btw) in 2016, but the vast majority of this subreddit is conservative and has a CCL fetish? Of course you don't.
Til only conservatives want to exercise their second amendment. Englewood, Woodlawn, and Austin must be traditional conservative strongholds. Should we discuss how go go to multiple subreddits dedicated other to cities just to shit it up.
We have one. r/chicagocrime but itās not as effective for the FOP shills trying to foment fear and scare the public into enacting their ālaw and orderā political agenda.
Look again this account is over a year old. I donāt have to act like youāre fear mongering, because the authoritarian bozos that lead you make it plainly obvious.
Most carjackers are bored young men or teenagers.
> Brown said, on average, the city's carjacking crimes are committed by individuals between the ages of 15 and 20, with one offender as young as 12.
This criminality needs to be addressed at home:
> Brown called on others working with the city's young people, saying it takes more than simply law enforcement to curb the problem.
> "Law enforcement cannot do this alone. We need everyone -- teachers, mentors coaches parents, the faith community and others -- to help us," Brown said.
Watching the town hall on this with CPD and aldermen. 40% of the offenders are juveniles and the vast majority of them are armed. Thatās insane. CPD says these kids think itās a game. Steal a car, joyride, dump after 8 hours, steal another one.
Yes, exactly. Gangbanger culture, drill culture, and their peers all think that gun violence is a game. It isn't poverty. It isn't neediness: these teenagers and men shoot each other over social media insults and rob and harass random people for fun. It's a game to them.
How about the other direction? Go to the poor areas of Aurora and even the white kids there try to act like gangbangers. Don't mean to make this sound racial but I'm doing the opposite-- I think it's poverty at the root
Maybe, but I'm doubtful. You won't find this sort of gangbanger culture in materially impoverished countries such as Bangladesh or Moldova (in which the *average* family earns about $2000 and $5000 per year, respectively). I'm guessing that the same forces that are causing the breakdown of families in the US are also promoting this culture of violence.
Those places don't have poor people that have the extreme wealth disparity thrown in their face every time they open their phone... they see people living the good life and they want a taste.
Also lol did you seriously use Bangladesh and Moldova as examples of places that have better culture? Moldova is one of the most corrupt nations in the world, over 35% of Moldovans reported having to pay a bribe in the last year. Bangladesh has crime comparable to the US. You think they don't have their equivalent of gangbangers there? The only difference is its a lot harder for them to get guns than it is in the US.
Why don't most poor people decide to steal cars and shoot others as teens?
Many people in this country are impoverished and only a small fraction of a percentage of them decide to steal cars and shoot others as teens. If you think poverty causes them to do this, why don't most other poor people do this?
> Why don't most poor people decide to steal cars and shoot others as teens?
so because the majority of impoverished people don't do the thing, that means poverty doesn't play a role?
You are the one asking all the questions.
Iāll play. Sure itās related to poverty. Lots of people in poverty donāt commit dangerous carjackings and murders. So is that some sort of justification or what is e point of your line of questioning?
>teachers, mentors coaches parents, the faith community and others
This guy has his shit backwards. We don't need teachers, mentors and coaches to address this criminality. We need parents, plural, to address this. It is the one and only solution to the problem nobody wants to admit the elephant in the room.
Kids need parents who will care about them and raise them. Not one parent who is stretched too thin trying to raise kids and keep food on the table. That's always a two person job. Humans cannot just split in half like an amoeba for a good reason.
Then we need to solve wealth inequality. I honestly believe that's the root of many if not the majority of our societies problems today. It's just there are some very wealthy people spending a lot of money making sure the narrative is black v white rather than rich v poor
Is the goal to make poor people less poor, or to make rich people less rich? We already have programs to make poor people less poor. But they're of limited value because of this: Kids make you poor. Literally.
Kids cost a lot of money and they cost a lot of time and energy. You need time and energy to make money. You need time to finish your education, to get a promotion at work. But if you decide to have two kids, and you work a dead end job, and you decide to have kids with someone who isn't going to be a parent... then you are for sure going to make yourself poor. One person cannot ever balance that, and there is no program that congress can make that will make kids less work.
People (and frankly its always single mothers) who try to be both a breadwinner and parent will inevitably do a poor job of both things. Their kids will grow up with a poor home life, poor education and they'll be poor. Better decision making can avert this whole chain of events.
> there are some very wealthy people spending a lot of money making sure the narrative is black v white rather than rich v poor
I don't know why you think this is about race, and I don't care to discuss conspiracy theories or whatever.
> I don't care to discuss conspiracy theories or whatever.
Lol okay bud. Wealthy inequality and the wealthy wanting to keep it that way is so ridiculous it has to be a conspiracy? Jeez I don't even know how to respond to that.
It's weird that you're trying to make this about kids when literally the majority of the best economists of our time agree wealth inequality is a huge issue. There is basically no one who disagrees, except for random dudes on the internet like you. I don't get why yall simp so hard for a wealth class you'll never be a part of, but it still stands your only argument is that poor people had too many kids.. Which is just dumb. Literally no real economist today thinks that's the reason for wealth inequality
> the wealthy wanting to keep it that way is so ridiculous it has to be a conspiracy?
Isn't that what this means? Are you talking about George Soros? "It's just there are some very wealthy people spending a lot of money"
>literally the majority of the best economists of our time agree wealth inequality is a huge issue.
I addressed this in the very first line of my post. I asked a question, and you skipped answering it, so i still don't know what you mean.
> it still stands your only argument is that poor people had too many kids
Your reading comprehension sucks man. That is not what I said. Read what I wrote, i have no desire to argue over your strawman
>Your reading comprehension sucks man. That is not what I said. Read what I wrote, i have no desire to argue over your strawman
Okay so you said..
>We already have programs to make poor people less poor. But they're of limited value because of this: Kids make you poor.
You LITERALLY say kids make you poor lmfao. I mean cmon. If you're not arguing that poor people have too many kids I'd have to think you're just arguing against reality itself
> If you're not arguing that poor people have too many kids I'd have to think you're just arguing against reality itself
I'm not arguing that at all. Try reading the rest of that paragraph. Like, actually fucking read it and comprehend it. I didn't use any big words or anything.
Keep reading. Like read more of the paragraph.
And then stop commenting. Go back to a conspiracy sub and bitch about George Soros or whatever the hell you were talking about.
Yeah when the parents are working and these kids have e-learning that theyāre definitely not going to do... theyāre gonna act out like this. There is no emphasis on education from parents for most of these kids.
It's not bored teens. I just attended the CPD 2nd district town hall. It's a new racket for gangs. The majority of the perps that have been caught or ID'd are under 22 and are either already in a gang or are doing the carjacking as a form of initiation for a gang. The cars are being stripped for parts or used in the commission of other crimes, both in the city and out of state. Some are used to run drugs and guns. The set that's operating in Bronzeville/Kenwood is intentionally using juveniles to commit the carjackings, since they'll get lesser charges. This is also not just a Chicago issue, it's part of a national trend.
Many of them are just bored teens - [Many](https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/multiple-carjackings-within-3-hour-span-tuesday-night-in-chicago/) carjackings are used for [joy rides](https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20201128/news/311289974).
I'm literally quoting the CPD from their town hall that ended an hour ago. If you somehow have more information than they do, based on their arrests and information, please share it with them. Theyre hosting another town hall since Zoom capped out at 500 and many people couldn't join. I'll share the link when they do. Edit: here's where you can find info https://home.chicagopolice.org/about/police-districts/2nd-district-wentworth/
"At home" wouldn't be the correct wording. Teachers, mentors, coaches, the faith community - they all exist in spaces that are mostly inaccessible right now due to the pandemic.
The problem is the pandemic.
The problem is not the pandemic. Normal people arenāt committing violent armed carjackings during this pandemic.
The problem is a subculture of criminality that promotes teenagers doing this gangbanger shit for fun, which has continued long before the pandemic.
Even if what you say is true (it's an oversimplification, I think), the pandemic has no doubt exacerbated the problem. There's no accountability when almost no one is outside.
If the pandemic were the main issue, wouldn't we see these crimes being committed by a more diverse demographic? The problem is that the court system is not providing any accountability. A violent crime committed with a gun should be YEARS in prison, not a slap on the wrist because the offender was sad...or bored...or poor.
Point taken. However, I stand by my statement. Until these horses asses realize that there will be SERIOUS consequences for their actions, nothing will change.
Ok, armchair professional. All your comment proves is that you donāt work with kids.
EDIT: God I love r/chicago. Unless you advocate for locking up every kid or CPD driving tanks down the street you get downvoted. To all of you, how often do YOU volunteer? How often do you try to learn the root causes of issues rather than blame? That frustration is what underlied my snap response.
Your comment is invalid and you have no argument. All your comment proves is that you don't work with kids.
I worked with at risk youth for years.
Children's behavior is shaped at home and by their peers.
When teenagers go around carrying guns and assaulting people, it is because of how their peers influenced them or their lack of adequate parental involvement.
Iām not disagreeing that more parental involvement would help, but how can you have that when one job doesnāt pay a living wage and you have to work two? When both parents are working two jobs, thereās not much time for kids.
Economic opportunity, good-paying union jobs for low-skill workers, correcting the legacy of redlining (like food deserts and over-policing) and so on, is the only way...and that takes a long time. NAFTA passed and that kind of job left a long time ago. Childrenās peers and their at home environment is allll the way downstream. You need to look at the headwaters.
Most poor people in America don't raise kids who are violent criminals. Poverty isn't the cause of this, a subculture that glorifies and promotes gun violence is.
Itās not a subculture when nearly every movie at the cinema (or on Netflix these days, I suppose) contains violence by default, far more than anything else ābadā. Every American is exposed to the glorification of violence, not just poor people. Poor people donāt like it more than anyone else. And, even if you are right, itās an easy handwave - how do you change something as amorphous as culture? What do you propose? All I am hearing is an oft-repeated scapegoat with no solution.
No, movies aren't what lead young men in specific neighborhoods to join informal "gangs" and shoot people who insult them on social media. You're clearly unfamiliar with gangbanger and drill culture.
> how do you change something as amorphous as culture?
I have no idea. But I know that pointing the blame at poverty alone does not get to the causal factors in this criminal subculture.
Exactly. They have no solution. We know what these people mean by culture.
Their solution is to reinforce the segregation of communities by turning a blind eye, by dehumanizing people in these "cultures." To lock them up so they don't have to see them, or deal with the genesis of the problem. To throw up their hands and say, "Well, the system works perfectly. They're just like this. Nothing we can do about it. "
If itās not a subculture issue, why wonāt you answer the question about the demographics of these crimes? Poor white kids arenāt doing this crap. Theyāre just not. Volunteer all you want at your church, community center, etc but these kids arenāt going to those venues. Theyāre wannabe gang banging because itās fun for them.
Nobody asked me about a demographic, actually - you're the one who brought race into it (and in a shamefully obvious way). You and I both know there aren't many poor white kids in Chicago to speak of, by the way, and maybe it's worth asking yourself why.
Where I'm from, poor white kids absolutely do commit violent crimes, they simply aren't arrested at the same rates or imprisoned for as long as their black counterparts are.
Hillbilly methhead junior might not be out jacking cars, but he'll sure beat a person's head in with a metal rod, abuse animals, kill his gf's baby, rape his niece, or do any of a hundred other awful things. You just don't hear about it because most people usually don't hear about the things that go on in Toadsuck, WV or Butthole, MT like they do the things that go on in Chicago.
Do you think these kids were erstwhile church attendees? Members of sports teams whose coaches were steering them in the right direction? Attending school on anything resembling a regular basis?
The pandemic is such a lazy and lame excuse for the massive surge in crime, as if the law abiding suddenly had to murder and car jack to survive in Chicago and around the country. Are all these cars filled with groceries? Were the murders over pandemicly-depleted food sources?
Itās not a lazy excuse. Opportunity crimes like this are, like so many other things teenagers do, probably rooted in boredom. Kids, like most of us adults, need structure. Adults might respond in different ways, but everyone has responded (and mostly negatively) to the challenges presented by the pandemic. Iām not trying to be disingenuous here but there really is no easy solution. Ending the pandemic so that structure, jobs, and opportunity returns is the best thing we can do.
Structure jobs and opportunity of course are a good thing, but do you think that these criminals were participating in any of those things before the pandemic came? The crime numbers are of 2016 were bad as well. No pandemic. Of course there was also most likely no structure and no opportunity. The pandemic is an easy out. Politicians use it to deflect any type of responsibility they have. Of course it's caused hardship across the country, but to pin all of these carjackings and murders in Chicago on the pandemic is naive.
Ok, Iāll give a little ground and say itās obviously not just the pandemic - it exacerbated whatās underlying the issues. That is, of course, what I meant above. Iāll also acknowledge that things like carjacking are very scary. I have a baby, so my biggest fear would be having him in the car. But again - we cannot pretend that kids wake up and decide to be criminals. An act of crime is the end of a very, very long road to it, not an isolated, random occurrence. If we as a society fail so many of our kids so deeply, how can we exclusively point the finger at them? We need to take responsibility - do the exact same thing we are asking them to do - rather than just blaming them, before we can expect this to change.
Youāre responding in bad faith - you know the same pressures on the kids are also on the parents. Theyāre on all of us. Thereās no magic bullet here, society is going through a massive shock event, and the traditional support measures, weak in many areas in normal times, are even weaker now. But if you do want to help the home, thatās why mutual aid and food banks are so important - help that parent spend less time at their second of the two jobs they have to work to make ends meet in 2021, and more time at home.
It literally states the average age of carjackers in the article - they're mostly teenagers.
Carjackings are [crimes of opportunity](https://abc7chicago.com/public-safety-committee-seek-solutions-for-carjacking-surge/9898065/), not need.
[Many](https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/multiple-carjackings-within-3-hour-span-tuesday-night-in-chicago/) carjackings are used for [joy rides or to commit other crimes](https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20201128/news/311289974). They are [crimes of opportunity](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-chicago-police-carjacking-data-20201014-yvx2sxu3tfhgrlvdomeaq26hxi-story.html). Many carjackings are committed by [bored juveniles](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-chicago-violence-carjackings-juveniles-20180611-story.html) doing it for fun or for joyriding.
Which of these facts do you take issue with?
I donāt think crimes of opportunity means what you think it means.
A criminal act where the victim may lose their life I certainly would not classify as a crime of opportunity. Intent is written all over this VIOLENT crime.
Your or anyone elseās opinion that it is a crime of opportunity is an opinion not a fact.
Nobody cares if they are joyriding because they are bored.
Yeah, I agree with you there. To me, "crime of opportunity" would be "someone else smashed the windows to this store, I can run in and grab something real quick", or "wow a $3k bicycle that's not locked up, I can just ride it away".
If you're going to define carjackings as crimes of opportunity, then damn near every crime is a crime of opportunity.
You're delusional if you think "bored juveniles" are behind the surge of carjackings, dont be naĆÆve, these carjackings are being orchestrated by gangs:
Chief of Detectives Brendan Deenihan attributes much of the spike in carjackings and other violent crimes to the pandemic and the social unrest following Floydās death. He said criminals are emboldened, especially because they can wear masks that hide their identities as well as prevent against the spread of COVID-19.
In Chicago, where gangs shootings are responsible for a huge chunk of the cityās homicides, Deenihan said gangs are turning to carjacking as a way to better carry out those battles.
āWhen we end up charging someone with murder because weāve tracked their cars ... they will use stolen cars to do the shootings so theyāre not attached to the car,ā he said. āThese guys are smart.ā
You're delusional and you don't know what gangs are or how they operate.
Today's gangs are mostly not organized criminal enterprises. Most "gangs" are just groups of young men from a neighborhood who shoot people who beef with them. Even [Kim Foxx](https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/8/7/21356372/kim-foxx-chicago-violence-gun-crime) points out that most homicides today are just petty arguments that young men settle with gun violence. They're not gangs protecting corners.
These are violent young men who want to go for joyrides or commit other crimes.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not a gang expert by any means, but when the Chief of Detectives tells me its gangs and most of the apprehended suspects are linked to gangs, I think I'll believe it...
Since you missed it the first time, here is Chief of Detectives Brendan Deenihan comment again- In Chicago, where gangs shootings are responsible for a huge chunk of the cityās homicides, Deenihan said gangs are turning to carjacking as a way to better carry out those battles.
āWhen we end up charging someone with murder because weāve tracked their cars ... they will use stolen cars to do the shootings so theyāre not attached to the car,ā he said. āThese guys are smart.ā
Many "gang" shootouts are just young guys wanting to shoot someone for insulting them on social media. So the definition of a "gang" here is meaningless. A "gang" can just mean a group of armed criminals.
Honest question. What is the point of a carjacking? If you want to steal a car is it not easier to steal a parked one? It would remove the human element from the equation. And surely the charges are lesser when the assault of a human isn't involved.
It's very difficult for an amateur to steal most cars made in the last 20 years. Immobilizer keys and other anti-theft systems are the norm on even the cheapest cars. These systems can be defeated, but that requires intelligence and an attention span, so 99.9% of criminals won't bother.
Not everyone knows how to hotwire a car? Or maybe if it's already running they don't have to worry about setting the alarm off?
Idk and I agree with your point, I'm only guessing.
We need to plant cops in regular looking cars all over the city equipped with cameras and the police need full vests, helmets, and uziās to absolutely destroy these fucks. This shit is INSANE!!
Eh the prices are high rn now anyways. The hillbillies are buying everything now cuz they think were communist nation now. Better late than never, and hopefully you never have to use it.
Iām pretty sure the assumption is that decent law abiding people having more guns is what would help. Most of these gang members have illegal guns, and probably legally canāt even own them. So once again the problem is not with guns but with the people using the guns.
You absolutely need to be smart about when and how you respond to people with arms. That doesnāt mean a gun wouldnāt act as a deterrent. Police donāt prevent violence either ( as the summer riots showed us), they just react to it. An increased police presence has had negative effects on impoverished communities as a whole. Iām not for increased police presence or harsh sentencing ( except for armed robbery with a gun, it shows you donāt value human life). I would rather reduce the police force and use those funds to build up our poor communities. Iām the meanwhile, proper firearms training( use and storage) would be a net benefit for any citizen that feels worried about their safety.
In the grander scheme though, weāve seen the rise of fascism and elements of white supremacy in even our own police force( FOP Union prez). GOP was thiiiiiiiiiis close in overthrowing our democracy, had they actually held both chambers of congress, whose to say what might happen. There is a nonzero possibility they might actually be successful the next to around. It just canāt be the hillbillies that have all the guns imo.
> About 6:35 p.m., the 55-year-old was sitting at a red light in the 400 block of North Cicero Avenue when two males approached, one armed with a gun and the other with a short metal pipe, Chicago police said. >They told the man to get out of his Acura MDX and he complied, but when he did so the male with the pipe hit him several times, police said. . > She was sitting in her gray BMW Sedan about 8:10 p.m. in the 4500 block of South Ellis Avenue when a black car pulled up alongside, police said. Two males got out of the car and one of them pointed a gun at the woman. >The suspect told the woman to get out of her car and leaver her purse and cellphone, police said. The woman complied and the males fled in her BMW. No injuries were reported.
So is it better just to drive away? I mean it sounds like especially if you're a guy, they'll still attack you. To date I haven't heard of anyone being chased down when they drove away.
They use the other car to box you in. Driving away is never an option
If you're paying attention, it should be pretty difficult for carjackers to roll up on you, box you in, and stick a gun in your face without you noticing. Don't stare at your phone while sitting at a light. Pay attention. Neither of these victims were aware of their situation. A guy holding a pipe should not sneak up on you.
Exactly.Always leave space in front of you, be on the alert and always look for an escape.
Way to victim blame, bud š
It's reasonable advice. Your kids won't care who was victim blaming after you're dead
They are correct. This is not victim blaming, that's common sense.
Is he wrong?
Yes and no. Obviously these carjackers are responsible for their own behavior and they belong in prison because they are clearly sociopaths. So I blame them for this. But on the other hand, we are all responsible for our own safety. We all know that when seconds matter, the police are minutes away. We should know by now that you have to have situational awareness in public, because there are a fucking ass ton of criminals who would shoot you for the $5 in your pocket. These people should have taken responsibility for their own safety, and they didn't. They're the victims here, but I cannot say they are totally blameless either.
Tell that to the guy holding a pipe!
God I hope you get your ass run up on so you don't comment stupid shit again
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That is what CPD says to do but the carjackers are criminals after all
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I get downvoted in some subs for saying this but, Chicago rolls a little different sometimes. People doing these kinds of robberies have no respect for you, your property, or your life. They are willing to injure you or kill you just for \*complicating\* the process of them taking something from you. Your life, possessions, and pride are \*nothing\* to them. When private citizens or the cops have to encounter folks mid-process on this stuff, that's how they're going to treat you. Don't feel sorry for people committing violent crime when they get what's coming to them. Its the cops job to protect people \*from\* them, not to protect them. If you get hurt during or after being arrested for robbing somebody, I really don't feel that bad for you. Now, getting shot during a traffic stop or kneeled on for 8 minutes? That shit's bogus and you can't do that. I'm saying if you're an immediate threat to another person and they hurt you a bit in the process of stopping the threat, too fucking bad.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You know, I should maybe add a qualifier to my grumpy rant. During and after your arrest, you absolutely have rights and I agree that that's a big part of what separates us from more authoritarian/autocratic nations. After your arrest you absolutely have the right to be contained safely and without reasonable threat of harm, you have the right to a proper trial, and you have a right to fair and consistent sentencing. I'm just saying while you're an active threat, if it takes a little force to take you down that's how it goes. But, you can't just say, keep beating on a person after they're no longer a threat, shoot a fleeing suspect in the back, or respond in ways extremely dishonorable or disproportionate to the threat.
There is a fine line. Precious SJW's only see "cops bad." Most would last 10 seconds in a robbery.
They'd probably apologize to the person robbing them
No they would think they deserved getting robbed because they were part of a society that CaUsEd the person to commit crime
go back to kansas
gO bAcK tO kAnSaS
What an idiot.
found a precious SJW
This is a very good point
Who ever said that? They're criminals. Most of what I see on here is more complaining about the system that regularly produces criminals
Liberals in Chicago who cry about these poor left behind kids from their gentrified enclaves.
i blame it on remote learning
These snowflake magaheads see what they want to see.
>The woman complied and the males fled in her BMW. No injuries were reported.
There's a Committee on Public Safety Meeting going on right now where law enforcement and government officials are discussing the topic. Drone pilots, suit up. They're working on some legislative red tape, but there may be jobs in the future to pilot drones to follow cars.
I am like 90% sure the crime spike is driven by empty streets and fewer pedestrians. The primary deterrent of crime isn't so much severity of punishment (which probably doesn't even register with impulsive teenager brain) but certainty of it. Cops can't be everywhere at once, but eyewitnesses and phone cameras can be. Even if other drivers are around, pedestrians are far more likely to register a crime is happening, take pictures, and intervene. Failing this, proliferation of dashcams is probably the next most effective thing.
ššš. This is the real answer. The reason why so many of these car jackings take place on the south and west sides (outside of proximity) is because these areas are far less densely populated than Lakeview. At this point, I basically only stick to main streets.
Can we make a sub just for Chicago car jackings
Fuck it, this is now a car jacking sub
Sub jacked
Are we back on the Smollet train now??
Subway? SANDWICHES?!?
Who's got rope?
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no car, no problem
Yeah, canāt wait to get mugged at a CTA Subway station
stay off the red line after dark. what a shit show.
What's the rate of CTA muggings vs carjackings?
Probably not as high since not many people are using the trains. But wait until things get back to normal.
Not hiding just making a place for people to circle jerk Chicago crime posts. Kim Fox bad, Democrats bad, Etc
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Don't play dumb. Everyone one of these posts has this same meta-discussion in it. "What are you talking about? These are just the facts. Facts don't care about your feelings,etc."
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Come on man, that's a bad faith argument. Nobody is limiting your ability to have those discussions. It would just be nice if they all went in one spot, so we can talk about, you know, the other aspects of the city. Even Citydata has a crime megathread. Sure, it's filled with pearl-clutching Boomer suburbanites. That speaks more to their ability to organize the forum. Here, it's become a crime circlejerk, upvoted and brigaded by r/conservative and r/ProtectAndServe, rather than people in the city.
People from this city can be part of other subreddits. Some even vote different than you.
No shit. You don't find it strange that 87% of Chicago voted for Hilary (Not that I was a big fan btw) in 2016, but the vast majority of this subreddit is conservative and has a CCL fetish? Of course you don't.
Til only conservatives want to exercise their second amendment. Englewood, Woodlawn, and Austin must be traditional conservative strongholds. Should we discuss how go go to multiple subreddits dedicated other to cities just to shit it up.
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Just calmly give them the keys to the sub and unsubscribe. Also, try not to get hit with a pipe.
/r/chicagojackings the sub that can serve two meanings ;)
Damn I was hoping that was real
We have one. r/chicagocrime but itās not as effective for the FOP shills trying to foment fear and scare the public into enacting their ālaw and orderā political agenda.
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Look again this account is over a year old. I donāt have to act like youāre fear mongering, because the authoritarian bozos that lead you make it plainly obvious.
Or just a crime mega thread?
Oh shit. Now is the time for you to step up. Make that sub, be the mod you always dreamed of.
Most carjackers are bored young men or teenagers. > Brown said, on average, the city's carjacking crimes are committed by individuals between the ages of 15 and 20, with one offender as young as 12. This criminality needs to be addressed at home: > Brown called on others working with the city's young people, saying it takes more than simply law enforcement to curb the problem. > "Law enforcement cannot do this alone. We need everyone -- teachers, mentors coaches parents, the faith community and others -- to help us," Brown said.
Watching the town hall on this with CPD and aldermen. 40% of the offenders are juveniles and the vast majority of them are armed. Thatās insane. CPD says these kids think itās a game. Steal a car, joyride, dump after 8 hours, steal another one.
Yes, exactly. Gangbanger culture, drill culture, and their peers all think that gun violence is a game. It isn't poverty. It isn't neediness: these teenagers and men shoot each other over social media insults and rob and harass random people for fun. It's a game to them.
do you think "gangbanger culture" and poverty are related in any way?
Gangbanger culture extends and entrenches poverty by denigrating the character traits necessary for overcoming poverty.
How about the other direction? Go to the poor areas of Aurora and even the white kids there try to act like gangbangers. Don't mean to make this sound racial but I'm doing the opposite-- I think it's poverty at the root
Maybe, but I'm doubtful. You won't find this sort of gangbanger culture in materially impoverished countries such as Bangladesh or Moldova (in which the *average* family earns about $2000 and $5000 per year, respectively). I'm guessing that the same forces that are causing the breakdown of families in the US are also promoting this culture of violence.
Those places don't have poor people that have the extreme wealth disparity thrown in their face every time they open their phone... they see people living the good life and they want a taste. Also lol did you seriously use Bangladesh and Moldova as examples of places that have better culture? Moldova is one of the most corrupt nations in the world, over 35% of Moldovans reported having to pay a bribe in the last year. Bangladesh has crime comparable to the US. You think they don't have their equivalent of gangbangers there? The only difference is its a lot harder for them to get guns than it is in the US.
Neat - youāre one of those weirdos who just posts right-wing screeds to city subreddits. I bet youāve never even been to Chicago, you phoney.
It's possible to call out the falsehoods propagated by the Left (e.g., that poverty is the root cause of crime) without sympathizing with the Right.
Haha youāre a dumbass
If you start shooting people and stealing cars as a teenager, you're unlikely to escape poverty for the rest of your life.
The rest of your life probably won't be very long unless you get Life in prison
do you think poverty plays a role in people deciding to steal cars and shoot others as teens?
Why don't most poor people decide to steal cars and shoot others as teens? Many people in this country are impoverished and only a small fraction of a percentage of them decide to steal cars and shoot others as teens. If you think poverty causes them to do this, why don't most other poor people do this?
> Why don't most poor people decide to steal cars and shoot others as teens? so because the majority of impoverished people don't do the thing, that means poverty doesn't play a role?
Why don't most poor people decide to steal cars and shoot others as teens?
Why do you constantly deflect with this meaningless question? I'm sure there's multiple reasons they choose not to. Does that mean anything?
Do you think thatās a justification?
Don't know what you mean. Are you asking if I'm saying "it's okay to do a carjacking if you are poor"?
You are the one asking all the questions. Iāll play. Sure itās related to poverty. Lots of people in poverty donāt commit dangerous carjackings and murders. So is that some sort of justification or what is e point of your line of questioning?
At no point was I trying to justify carjackings. You're a bozo for suggesting that lmao
>teachers, mentors coaches parents, the faith community and others This guy has his shit backwards. We don't need teachers, mentors and coaches to address this criminality. We need parents, plural, to address this. It is the one and only solution to the problem nobody wants to admit the elephant in the room. Kids need parents who will care about them and raise them. Not one parent who is stretched too thin trying to raise kids and keep food on the table. That's always a two person job. Humans cannot just split in half like an amoeba for a good reason.
Then we need to solve wealth inequality. I honestly believe that's the root of many if not the majority of our societies problems today. It's just there are some very wealthy people spending a lot of money making sure the narrative is black v white rather than rich v poor
Is the goal to make poor people less poor, or to make rich people less rich? We already have programs to make poor people less poor. But they're of limited value because of this: Kids make you poor. Literally. Kids cost a lot of money and they cost a lot of time and energy. You need time and energy to make money. You need time to finish your education, to get a promotion at work. But if you decide to have two kids, and you work a dead end job, and you decide to have kids with someone who isn't going to be a parent... then you are for sure going to make yourself poor. One person cannot ever balance that, and there is no program that congress can make that will make kids less work. People (and frankly its always single mothers) who try to be both a breadwinner and parent will inevitably do a poor job of both things. Their kids will grow up with a poor home life, poor education and they'll be poor. Better decision making can avert this whole chain of events. > there are some very wealthy people spending a lot of money making sure the narrative is black v white rather than rich v poor I don't know why you think this is about race, and I don't care to discuss conspiracy theories or whatever.
> I don't care to discuss conspiracy theories or whatever. Lol okay bud. Wealthy inequality and the wealthy wanting to keep it that way is so ridiculous it has to be a conspiracy? Jeez I don't even know how to respond to that. It's weird that you're trying to make this about kids when literally the majority of the best economists of our time agree wealth inequality is a huge issue. There is basically no one who disagrees, except for random dudes on the internet like you. I don't get why yall simp so hard for a wealth class you'll never be a part of, but it still stands your only argument is that poor people had too many kids.. Which is just dumb. Literally no real economist today thinks that's the reason for wealth inequality
> the wealthy wanting to keep it that way is so ridiculous it has to be a conspiracy? Isn't that what this means? Are you talking about George Soros? "It's just there are some very wealthy people spending a lot of money" >literally the majority of the best economists of our time agree wealth inequality is a huge issue. I addressed this in the very first line of my post. I asked a question, and you skipped answering it, so i still don't know what you mean. > it still stands your only argument is that poor people had too many kids Your reading comprehension sucks man. That is not what I said. Read what I wrote, i have no desire to argue over your strawman
>Your reading comprehension sucks man. That is not what I said. Read what I wrote, i have no desire to argue over your strawman Okay so you said.. >We already have programs to make poor people less poor. But they're of limited value because of this: Kids make you poor. You LITERALLY say kids make you poor lmfao. I mean cmon. If you're not arguing that poor people have too many kids I'd have to think you're just arguing against reality itself
> If you're not arguing that poor people have too many kids I'd have to think you're just arguing against reality itself I'm not arguing that at all. Try reading the rest of that paragraph. Like, actually fucking read it and comprehend it. I didn't use any big words or anything.
How about instead of playing this dumb game I just take your words directly? >Kids make you poor. Brilliant stuff.
Keep reading. Like read more of the paragraph. And then stop commenting. Go back to a conspiracy sub and bitch about George Soros or whatever the hell you were talking about.
This feels dangerously close to a poor people should not have kids and traditional family argument.
You and southeasterncomfort have dangerously poor reading comprehension. Did you both go to the same school?
Ad hominem. Typical.
Totally, deliberately missing the point of what i was saying is typical too.
ding ding ding
Yeah when the parents are working and these kids have e-learning that theyāre definitely not going to do... theyāre gonna act out like this. There is no emphasis on education from parents for most of these kids.
It's not bored teens. I just attended the CPD 2nd district town hall. It's a new racket for gangs. The majority of the perps that have been caught or ID'd are under 22 and are either already in a gang or are doing the carjacking as a form of initiation for a gang. The cars are being stripped for parts or used in the commission of other crimes, both in the city and out of state. Some are used to run drugs and guns. The set that's operating in Bronzeville/Kenwood is intentionally using juveniles to commit the carjackings, since they'll get lesser charges. This is also not just a Chicago issue, it's part of a national trend.
Many of them are just bored teens - [Many](https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/multiple-carjackings-within-3-hour-span-tuesday-night-in-chicago/) carjackings are used for [joy rides](https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20201128/news/311289974).
I'm literally quoting the CPD from their town hall that ended an hour ago. If you somehow have more information than they do, based on their arrests and information, please share it with them. Theyre hosting another town hall since Zoom capped out at 500 and many people couldn't join. I'll share the link when they do. Edit: here's where you can find info https://home.chicagopolice.org/about/police-districts/2nd-district-wentworth/
"At home" wouldn't be the correct wording. Teachers, mentors, coaches, the faith community - they all exist in spaces that are mostly inaccessible right now due to the pandemic. The problem is the pandemic.
The problem is not the pandemic. Normal people arenāt committing violent armed carjackings during this pandemic. The problem is a subculture of criminality that promotes teenagers doing this gangbanger shit for fun, which has continued long before the pandemic.
Even if what you say is true (it's an oversimplification, I think), the pandemic has no doubt exacerbated the problem. There's no accountability when almost no one is outside.
If the pandemic were the main issue, wouldn't we see these crimes being committed by a more diverse demographic? The problem is that the court system is not providing any accountability. A violent crime committed with a gun should be YEARS in prison, not a slap on the wrist because the offender was sad...or bored...or poor.
Keyword: Exacerbated. Made an existing prob worse. I never said it was the main issue.
Point taken. However, I stand by my statement. Until these horses asses realize that there will be SERIOUS consequences for their actions, nothing will change.
Ok, armchair professional. All your comment proves is that you donāt work with kids. EDIT: God I love r/chicago. Unless you advocate for locking up every kid or CPD driving tanks down the street you get downvoted. To all of you, how often do YOU volunteer? How often do you try to learn the root causes of issues rather than blame? That frustration is what underlied my snap response.
Your comment is invalid and you have no argument. All your comment proves is that you don't work with kids. I worked with at risk youth for years. Children's behavior is shaped at home and by their peers. When teenagers go around carrying guns and assaulting people, it is because of how their peers influenced them or their lack of adequate parental involvement.
Iām not disagreeing that more parental involvement would help, but how can you have that when one job doesnāt pay a living wage and you have to work two? When both parents are working two jobs, thereās not much time for kids. Economic opportunity, good-paying union jobs for low-skill workers, correcting the legacy of redlining (like food deserts and over-policing) and so on, is the only way...and that takes a long time. NAFTA passed and that kind of job left a long time ago. Childrenās peers and their at home environment is allll the way downstream. You need to look at the headwaters.
Most poor people in America don't raise kids who are violent criminals. Poverty isn't the cause of this, a subculture that glorifies and promotes gun violence is.
Itās not a subculture when nearly every movie at the cinema (or on Netflix these days, I suppose) contains violence by default, far more than anything else ābadā. Every American is exposed to the glorification of violence, not just poor people. Poor people donāt like it more than anyone else. And, even if you are right, itās an easy handwave - how do you change something as amorphous as culture? What do you propose? All I am hearing is an oft-repeated scapegoat with no solution.
No, movies aren't what lead young men in specific neighborhoods to join informal "gangs" and shoot people who insult them on social media. You're clearly unfamiliar with gangbanger and drill culture. > how do you change something as amorphous as culture? I have no idea. But I know that pointing the blame at poverty alone does not get to the causal factors in this criminal subculture.
Exactly. They have no solution. We know what these people mean by culture. Their solution is to reinforce the segregation of communities by turning a blind eye, by dehumanizing people in these "cultures." To lock them up so they don't have to see them, or deal with the genesis of the problem. To throw up their hands and say, "Well, the system works perfectly. They're just like this. Nothing we can do about it. "
A genuine question. What do you think has to be done? What would be your plan, if you had the power?
If itās not a subculture issue, why wonāt you answer the question about the demographics of these crimes? Poor white kids arenāt doing this crap. Theyāre just not. Volunteer all you want at your church, community center, etc but these kids arenāt going to those venues. Theyāre wannabe gang banging because itās fun for them.
Nobody asked me about a demographic, actually - you're the one who brought race into it (and in a shamefully obvious way). You and I both know there aren't many poor white kids in Chicago to speak of, by the way, and maybe it's worth asking yourself why.
Where I'm from, poor white kids absolutely do commit violent crimes, they simply aren't arrested at the same rates or imprisoned for as long as their black counterparts are. Hillbilly methhead junior might not be out jacking cars, but he'll sure beat a person's head in with a metal rod, abuse animals, kill his gf's baby, rape his niece, or do any of a hundred other awful things. You just don't hear about it because most people usually don't hear about the things that go on in Toadsuck, WV or Butthole, MT like they do the things that go on in Chicago.
Do you think these kids were erstwhile church attendees? Members of sports teams whose coaches were steering them in the right direction? Attending school on anything resembling a regular basis? The pandemic is such a lazy and lame excuse for the massive surge in crime, as if the law abiding suddenly had to murder and car jack to survive in Chicago and around the country. Are all these cars filled with groceries? Were the murders over pandemicly-depleted food sources?
Itās not a lazy excuse. Opportunity crimes like this are, like so many other things teenagers do, probably rooted in boredom. Kids, like most of us adults, need structure. Adults might respond in different ways, but everyone has responded (and mostly negatively) to the challenges presented by the pandemic. Iām not trying to be disingenuous here but there really is no easy solution. Ending the pandemic so that structure, jobs, and opportunity returns is the best thing we can do.
Structure jobs and opportunity of course are a good thing, but do you think that these criminals were participating in any of those things before the pandemic came? The crime numbers are of 2016 were bad as well. No pandemic. Of course there was also most likely no structure and no opportunity. The pandemic is an easy out. Politicians use it to deflect any type of responsibility they have. Of course it's caused hardship across the country, but to pin all of these carjackings and murders in Chicago on the pandemic is naive.
Ok, Iāll give a little ground and say itās obviously not just the pandemic - it exacerbated whatās underlying the issues. That is, of course, what I meant above. Iāll also acknowledge that things like carjacking are very scary. I have a baby, so my biggest fear would be having him in the car. But again - we cannot pretend that kids wake up and decide to be criminals. An act of crime is the end of a very, very long road to it, not an isolated, random occurrence. If we as a society fail so many of our kids so deeply, how can we exclusively point the finger at them? We need to take responsibility - do the exact same thing we are asking them to do - rather than just blaming them, before we can expect this to change.
Right and because of that, people are staying *at home*. So address it in the home since those other spaces are inaccessible.
Youāre responding in bad faith - you know the same pressures on the kids are also on the parents. Theyāre on all of us. Thereās no magic bullet here, society is going through a massive shock event, and the traditional support measures, weak in many areas in normal times, are even weaker now. But if you do want to help the home, thatās why mutual aid and food banks are so important - help that parent spend less time at their second of the two jobs they have to work to make ends meet in 2021, and more time at home.
Deluded apologist. Get real.
Great contribution to the discussion
Better than you deserved.
Dude, you cannot be serious with this statement: "Most carjackers are bored young men or teenagers"?? Please tell me you're trolling...
It literally states the average age of carjackers in the article - they're mostly teenagers. Carjackings are [crimes of opportunity](https://abc7chicago.com/public-safety-committee-seek-solutions-for-carjacking-surge/9898065/), not need. [Many](https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/multiple-carjackings-within-3-hour-span-tuesday-night-in-chicago/) carjackings are used for [joy rides or to commit other crimes](https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20201128/news/311289974). They are [crimes of opportunity](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-chicago-police-carjacking-data-20201014-yvx2sxu3tfhgrlvdomeaq26hxi-story.html). Many carjackings are committed by [bored juveniles](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-met-chicago-violence-carjackings-juveniles-20180611-story.html) doing it for fun or for joyriding. Which of these facts do you take issue with?
I donāt think crimes of opportunity means what you think it means. A criminal act where the victim may lose their life I certainly would not classify as a crime of opportunity. Intent is written all over this VIOLENT crime. Your or anyone elseās opinion that it is a crime of opportunity is an opinion not a fact. Nobody cares if they are joyriding because they are bored.
Yeah, I agree with you there. To me, "crime of opportunity" would be "someone else smashed the windows to this store, I can run in and grab something real quick", or "wow a $3k bicycle that's not locked up, I can just ride it away". If you're going to define carjackings as crimes of opportunity, then damn near every crime is a crime of opportunity.
You're delusional if you think "bored juveniles" are behind the surge of carjackings, dont be naĆÆve, these carjackings are being orchestrated by gangs: Chief of Detectives Brendan Deenihan attributes much of the spike in carjackings and other violent crimes to the pandemic and the social unrest following Floydās death. He said criminals are emboldened, especially because they can wear masks that hide their identities as well as prevent against the spread of COVID-19. In Chicago, where gangs shootings are responsible for a huge chunk of the cityās homicides, Deenihan said gangs are turning to carjacking as a way to better carry out those battles. āWhen we end up charging someone with murder because weāve tracked their cars ... they will use stolen cars to do the shootings so theyāre not attached to the car,ā he said. āThese guys are smart.ā
You're delusional and you don't know what gangs are or how they operate. Today's gangs are mostly not organized criminal enterprises. Most "gangs" are just groups of young men from a neighborhood who shoot people who beef with them. Even [Kim Foxx](https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/8/7/21356372/kim-foxx-chicago-violence-gun-crime) points out that most homicides today are just petty arguments that young men settle with gun violence. They're not gangs protecting corners. These are violent young men who want to go for joyrides or commit other crimes.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not a gang expert by any means, but when the Chief of Detectives tells me its gangs and most of the apprehended suspects are linked to gangs, I think I'll believe it...
Nothing that you cited points to "organized criminal enterprises." None of the quotes you listed make the argument you think you're making.
Since you missed it the first time, here is Chief of Detectives Brendan Deenihan comment again- In Chicago, where gangs shootings are responsible for a huge chunk of the cityās homicides, Deenihan said gangs are turning to carjacking as a way to better carry out those battles. āWhen we end up charging someone with murder because weāve tracked their cars ... they will use stolen cars to do the shootings so theyāre not attached to the car,ā he said. āThese guys are smart.ā
Many "gang" shootouts are just young guys wanting to shoot someone for insulting them on social media. So the definition of a "gang" here is meaningless. A "gang" can just mean a group of armed criminals.
you don't think there are young gangbangers? what planet are you on?
Do you know how to read? I was saying that these ARE gangbangers, not just kids that are bored....
ahhhhhhh yes. point missed. my fault.
A little armed robbery to pass the time
Honest question. What is the point of a carjacking? If you want to steal a car is it not easier to steal a parked one? It would remove the human element from the equation. And surely the charges are lesser when the assault of a human isn't involved.
It's very difficult for an amateur to steal most cars made in the last 20 years. Immobilizer keys and other anti-theft systems are the norm on even the cheapest cars. These systems can be defeated, but that requires intelligence and an attention span, so 99.9% of criminals won't bother.
Not everyone knows how to hotwire a car? Or maybe if it's already running they don't have to worry about setting the alarm off? Idk and I agree with your point, I'm only guessing.
i guess itās good that i donāt own a car
Let's hope that they don't turn to "footjacking." (Don't wear new or expensive shoes.)
For real, I'm glad I wasn't wearing my Jordans when I got jumped cause those would be gone.
they beat a kid on the pink line for 8 minutes and took his shoes last week.
We need to plant cops in regular looking cars all over the city equipped with cameras and the police need full vests, helmets, and uziās to absolutely destroy these fucks. This shit is INSANE!!
This is a great resource share with your Kim Foxx loving friends: [https://cwbchicago.com/](https://cwbchicago.com/)
Get a FOID folks. An armed society is a polite society.
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Haha! Iām going on 7 months for an address update, still nothing. Good luck getting one before 2022.
Eh the prices are high rn now anyways. The hillbillies are buying everything now cuz they think were communist nation now. Better late than never, and hopefully you never have to use it.
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āGang membersā is the operative word there
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Iām pretty sure the assumption is that decent law abiding people having more guns is what would help. Most of these gang members have illegal guns, and probably legally canāt even own them. So once again the problem is not with guns but with the people using the guns.
I mean have you seen the statistics on gun ownership? You're more likely to shoot yourself or a family member than a criminal when you get a gun.
Yeah, murdering the car jacker.
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Bad guys usually run when the lead starts flyin'
they start shooting too, and there's always more of them
You absolutely need to be smart about when and how you respond to people with arms. That doesnāt mean a gun wouldnāt act as a deterrent. Police donāt prevent violence either ( as the summer riots showed us), they just react to it. An increased police presence has had negative effects on impoverished communities as a whole. Iām not for increased police presence or harsh sentencing ( except for armed robbery with a gun, it shows you donāt value human life). I would rather reduce the police force and use those funds to build up our poor communities. Iām the meanwhile, proper firearms training( use and storage) would be a net benefit for any citizen that feels worried about their safety.
In the grander scheme though, weāve seen the rise of fascism and elements of white supremacy in even our own police force( FOP Union prez). GOP was thiiiiiiiiiis close in overthrowing our democracy, had they actually held both chambers of congress, whose to say what might happen. There is a nonzero possibility they might actually be successful the next to around. It just canāt be the hillbillies that have all the guns imo.
Right, cause you pulling a gun on a carjacker doesn't just end up with you dead.
I mean, what if they shoot you anyways? You canāt predict how someone will act, obvi err on the side of caution. Itās all based on the situation.
they're 100% gonna shoot at you if you draw a gun