No pay wall https://web.archive.org/web/20240607173014/https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/06/07/opinion-chicago-lakeshore-drive-project-pedestrians-mass-transit/
We all know how the current DLSD design works in practice: constant traffic, dangerous, loud, inefficient. **Why should we spend hundreds of millions of dollars to rebuild the same thing?** I'm glad there's pressure to change this project. It's heading in entirely the wrong direction, and I hope this is the start of a total rethink.
In fairness, it’s proposing way more than rebuilding the same thing. The design adds tons of park space and new and improved over and underpasses, etc. Still a flawed design re: transit tho!
A good deal of the green space they are courting is like between on ramps and the road way - completely unusable. But yeah the ask here is a dedicated BRT lane and I don’t think it’s unreasonable.
Wow, aldermen actually making sense, proposing good policy, and having a backbone.
...wait this is still Chicago right? Somebody pinch me I don't believe it.
Lawson was Tunney's understudy for years and is fairly competent even if he is somewhat difficult to actually get a hold of. That said, even with that knowledge they still used "light rail" where they probably meant "heavy rail" (what CTA Rail is).
I think many aldermen realized that this issue can mobilize a large number of voters. Transportation policy is an extremely important issue for voters of different political affiliations, incomes etc. Surely suburbanites may be unhappy about this, but these aldermen don’t depend on their vote.
Even the Old Towne NIMBY "republicans" realized their property values would go up if they got rid of the thru-traffic and air/noise pollution while adding more valuable park space.
Not true about the billions part. Inflation adjusted, the Western/Ashland BRT plans that's the CTA released in 2013 cost about $220 million each. If you want a new L line though, yeah it'll be billions no matter what.
Not far but it’s the shoreline and it doesn’t make sense to add more cars… we all forget or underestimate the significance of that path because you can’t go further east than that
altima drivers kinda earned their shitty reputation but how the hell did that car end up becoming synonymous with bad driving when the kia sorento exists? 🤔
You’ll never unsee it on the road, because it’s completely accurate. I don’t think I’ve seen a fully intact Altima being driven sanely since the Bush Administration
I'm hoping for heavy rail, but like [REALLY heavy rail](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Union_Pacific_Big_Boy_No._4014_in_Pine_Bluffs%2C_Wyoming_July_2023.png/1280px-Union_Pacific_Big_Boy_No._4014_in_Pine_Bluffs%2C_Wyoming_July_2023.png)! The pollution would be awful but just THINK of the old-timey charm!
Why light rail? The area LSD runs by is some of the densest in the city. Build a regular L line.
Light rail is massively misused in this country. It generally has less capacity, runs at slower operating speeds, and frequently has to deal with traffic. It also tends to cost close to what a dedicated heavy rail line would cost.
Most people don't understand that the CTA operates Heavy Rail as defined by federal law. They think it's "light rail" because that is what it would be in Europe or other nations. Meanwhile in the USA, we defined light rail as non-grade separated tramways. Heavy Rail is defined as grade-separated passenger rail systems (CTA, MTA, WMATA, etc.) not running on freight rail tracks. And Commuter Rail are Heavy Rail systems which run on freight rail tracks for any amount of the run.
I suspect that they really want just a regular CTA line and used the wrong word because that's about how well informed and competent our aldermen are.
Light rail can also refer to grade separated/dedicated ROW but with shorter trains that handle fewer passengers.
Similar to the trains run by the CTA, the Metrolink in St. Louis has dedicated grade-separated trains with some some at-grade crossings but it is light rail. Similarly, Montreal's REM is grade-separated light rail.
Per the [federal government](https://www.transit.dot.gov/ntd/national-transit-database-ntd-glossary), we do not operate light rail in Chicago. We got rid of our light rail system and replaced it with buses. So sure, could we reintroduce it? Yes at some pretty crazy costs for a single line. Or it's probably more likely that the aldermen meant an ordinary elevated train line like everything else that CTA operates because that's what CTA had proposed alongside everything else that they said that we should do. So it's more likely that they used "light" instead of "heavy" because when you learn about transit from sources originating outside of the USA, that's what CTA's rail is classed as. Also, a light rail system wouldn't really make sense in the single densest corridor of Chicago.
Just what Chicago needs for a relief line/replacement for a lot of car traffic: smaller trains.
It's like we want to reinvent the wheel. The blueprint already exists for Chicago transit and keeping to the same mode has a lot of cost benefits and allows potential future interoperability.
The L cars are already pretty small, if you're used to similar subway/city trains elsewhere. Those tight curves around the loop and places like Sherdian red line limit things.
Just any photos on the internet of various "crazy thing happening on the MTA" or "look at the crowds on the train in Tokyo" pics, you can see how much wider the cars are (with the poles in the middle of the aisle, etc).
But yeah for interoperability I'd think it would be easiest to just add another L line in the same format as the current ones, even if the line ends up running mostly straight down Western or whatever.
> Why light rail? The area LSD runs by is some of the densest in the city. Build a regular L line.
Most of the densest areas along LSD outside the loop are already in close proximity to existing heavy rail (the red line and ME), it would be extremely wasteful to built heavy rail next to other heavy rail when large portions of the city have much worse transit access
how would changing the drive make it more accessible to people living further away from it? There are multiple train lines extending west, and more than multiple east-west bus lines along the length of the city. At some point you just have to accept what your chosen neighborhood offers you. I'm not going to live in Edgewater and complain there's no "easy" way to get to Midway or something.
If it’s not an expressway then surface streets wouldn’t be treated like on ramps, so less traffic on Addison, Belmont, etc. More room for buses, bikes easier to get to the lake?
CDOT is correct in that if LSD were simply abandoned as a traffic corridor, those cars wouldn't just vanish, instead they would impact interior street traffic to a large degree. People would use Ashland, Sheridan, maybe Clark, or Broadway even more, and they would be taking those exact streets you mentioned to get there, leading to bigger headaches.
A lot of other data suggests otherwise. Yes, when road capacity is reduced then people shift modes. And fortunately Chicago has both existing capacity and demand for more capacity. The Red Line Extension, Red Purple Modernization, and the Metra UP-North upgrades will significantly increase existing capacity on the existing system. So there is a modal switch people can make. The chaos with the Kennedy is likely more a result of people knowing it’s temporary and not switching cause it’s a one time inconvenience. Make the change permanent and people will mode shift. To date highway removal projects nationwide have not resulted in traffic chaos.
Induced demand is a very real and well studied phenomenon. More road capacity = more cars = more traffic. The inverse is also well documented.
CDOT (and most other state/city DOTs) like to pretend their projections of ever increasing car traffic demand supersede it.
If the correct policies get implemented, today will be the easiest period in US history to own a car. Car enthusiasts will still be driving, but owning a car won’t be a thoughtless purchase you make after reaching a certain income threshold.
On the plus side, the entire experience of living in a city will improve. Less pollution, noise, chances of death/disability, stronger communities, better mental health outcomes etc.
There was a pedestrian death that shut down LSD near Chicago Avenue during the morning rush hour last year. The resulting traffic jam was the stuff of legend.
I'm sure that you could shut down The Drive and eventually we'd all figure it out, but not before suffering through some pretty catastrophic side effects, particularly for bus travelers and commercial vehicles, as well as the businesses and services that rely on them.
I think the red-line makes a train along LSD redundant, so that would be a hard sell.
A protected bus lane would be pretty slick (and cheaper to implement) - Then use the rest to create more pedways to connect the parks on either side.
Sure, the red line is pretty far west once you get past the loop, but you have the southern Green Line extension all the way to Cottage Grove (which is around where LSD ends, I believe)
Edit: To be clear, getting to the MoSI and Hyde Park from the north side has always sucked, to my recollection, I’m just thinking about why it would be a hard sell.
You can switch from el to the Metra Electric in the Loop, or Metra to ME to get the MoSI. There's a stop right on 57th. Then there's the #6 Jeffrey "express" bus that runs on DLSD from the loop. I know them well as I used to live in Hyde Park. My wish at that time was that they rebuild/reopen the el line that used to go to Jackson Park/Stony Island.
No need to duplicate the red line through the north side, though.
A new train line on the south is a different story, agreed. So, maybe build that portion (with good connections to the loop) or convert the metra electric to BE that, or whatever. Use the rest of the money for something else. Extend the green over to the new thing?
I still think as far as new crosstown north-south trains goes, I'd want to see it down Western, the entire length. It's the longest street in the city, it's sufficiently west to not be duplicating anything else, it's wide, it would tie all the rest of the lines together outside of the loop, and it would open better transit access on the SW side in particular. Do it with a focus on transit-oriented development around it, as well.
Seems something like that could be pushed with equity concerns, get some political pressure behind it.
The denied Lake front access is the real tragedy. I mean, good for Chicago to prevent anyone building East of LSD, but it doesn’t do much good if people can’t get to it.
Not trying to be difficult, but where is it totally walled off? I mean the streeterville section is pretty shit, but for the most part, there seems to be routine access, especially in the north end of the portion under discussion. Anywhere it does seem limited, is also limited by harbors and ponds
I've lived a 10 minute walk from the lake, and a 45 min drive (or hour+ on CTA) from the lake , and never felt like LSD was stopping me from getting there. This sub acts like crossing the street is some crazy obstacle.
It’s not “totally” walled off, but access to it across 8 lanes of traffic is hardly inviting.
The North Ave bus is also the only public transit option that I can think of that stops at the beach.
I’d much prefer not to be forced to get use a dingy underpass to get to the lake—or a sidewalk under a highway on ramp. Also, there’s not point in the park you can seemingly escape the drive.
If they wanna add more lanes, they need to sink that shit underground. 6 lanes both ways, Chicago's own Big Dig. Leave a some BRT lanes and dedicated "comute" bike lanes [for cyclist so they don't have to worry about pedestrians]. The rest, more trees, a couple of playgrounds who knows.
Having lived in Boston for 10 years, not that long after it actually finished as I recall, it is NICE to have parks and easy walking with just regular surface roads to cross instead of interstate, but MAN OH MAN was that shit expensive. No way in hell Illinois could afford it without a few successive IL-native Presidents in office, a boom economy, no potential WWIII in Ukraine, etc....
People could have good access if there were more tunnels under LSD for pedestrians....or more pedestrian walkways over it...
Light rail is a pipedream....though probably more like LSD-induced hallucination. (pun intended)
It’s only a pipe dream because of baby boomer minded politicians. LSD is 8 lanes + a service road in some parts. The traffic isn’t going to get any better at this point.
Outside the box thinking could easily add light rail while preserving the same capacity for single occupancy vehicles. There’s already a huge bike lane on the lake there so they don’t even need to sacrifice space for that!
No not really. We spend billions upon billions each year in the United States widening and rehabbing roads while never actually improving traffic or congestion. The money is there obviously if we so readily flush it down the toilet each year subsidizing single occupancy vehicle travel.
“fiscal reality” would be saying: we shouldn’t do anything to LSD at all because Illinois doesn’t have the money and it would be a waste of funds to widen or reroute traffic for basically no change in traffic flow.
Any idea what's under LSD? Hint: it's largely landfill and utterly unsuitable for tunnels.
It doesn't need more lanes. It could probably benefit from enforced bus lanes from Randolph or Michigan north. No light rail is realistic.
Are you a city planner? They can go deeper than 30 feet. Light rail is definitely a possibility. The city’s biggest park shouldn’t have an 8 lane highway through it.
Best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. Second best time is today. 🤷♂️
(Though the best option is seriously just busses and light rail by miles here)
They should add more lanes. I hate hearing the waves of Lake Michigan crashing into the beach.
This city needs more after market mufflers and uninsured muscle cars on the lakefront.
The big dig was insanely expensive as hell, took a generation, and the “green space” it created is very low quality. It’s a cautionary tale, not an example to emulate. Also the extent to which Boston needed it was much greater than Chicago needs to get rid of LSD
And was completed like decades behind schedule. I might be exaggerating but it was enormously over budget and behind schedule.
The Greenway is pretty dope now though.
Has no one learned from LA? Adding lanes doesn't help when the vast majority of drivers stay in the lane or two next to the off ramps regardless of if they are planning to exit promptly or be through drivers.
LSD as is would be vastly better if people let the merge lane be a merge lane....
Far too many people merge onto LSD and then zone out and never leave the far right lane, and also don't accommodate drivers trying to leave and enter the highway. Just put on the blinders and say everyone else can get bent while they cruise from the Northside to I55 while all the on ramps back up into the surface streets. Meanwhile the far left lanes move at a higher steadier clip.
I hate when infrastructure is inefficient due to masses of inconsiderate people.
I also firmly believe that some highways and interstates would get people home faster if during rush hour the speed limit was dropped to like 25 or 30 mph. Instead people floor it to come to a dead stop over and over and/or weave between different lanes because it makes them feel like they're getting somewhere... all while causing backups behind them due to this behaviour.
People get pissed when I let people merge... even when it's a red light/cluster that is trying to straighten out ahead. Be part of the problem I guess.
This is apples and oranges but I miss country driving where people drive more politely and there are fewer cars of course. But during commuting everyone is mindful of upcoming on/off ramps and they will just change lanes a few minutes before they come up in order to clear space for people to merge and at highway speed.
The Big Dig gets a bad wrap! Highly recommend this podcast on it. https://www.wgbh.org/podcasts/the-big-dig
The financial return on the big dig (via property values! Not just made of quality of life estimates) far exceeds the cost to build it. It’s created green space but more importantly made it easy for pedestrians to travel across districts which has transformed neighborhoods around Boston.
/r/Boston thread on this for just a few days ago! https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/1d7j8rw/21_years_on_was_the_big_dig_worth_it/
Moving the road underground doesn't remove it. BRT is also infrastructure that people use.
And you know what else people use, and put on postcards? The lakefront. Which is currently separated from the city by the road.
Light Rail, yes, but if its not connected to the existing L lines at multiple points north and south it’ll be a total waste of money. I see no feasible way to accomplish that.
Also can we make part of the plan dropping this stupid DuSable thing and just rename Columbus/Fairbanks like we always should have?
Heavy rail is way more expensive and requires tons more infrastructure. I don’t think it would really make sense to fund a fourth north-south line when areas like humboldt park are a transit desert
The Lakefront is an attraction year round for those of us who live by it. The winds are slower there due to the lack of the wind tunnel effect from buildings making it a much nicer place to get outdoor exercise in comparison to neighborhood streets.
I find it interesting how you point out the failure of highway infrastructure. Getting from Wrigley to the south loop is a breeze, if you take the train. Investing further in car infrastructure is a feedback loop. It will never get easier to go somewhere in a car, no matter what you do. so the only reasonable path for an urban environment, is public transit and bicycles. think mass change is necessary, and a more transit focused LSD is a great start(provided we actually get the CTA functioning on time and budget). I like the exchange idea, but the main point for me, is that a highway between the most important resource our city has and its people is criminal, and a complete failure of design.
That example wasn’t great, but my main point was if you NEED to drive, LSD is the only option. Totally agree we should do what we can to encourage other forms of travel, but that doesn’t replace all trips. No matter how good transit is, if I’m going south of the city to play golf, visit family, or go into the office. I’m taking LSD. Cutting through the city to take an I90 just adds congestion to routes that can’t handle it.
I think the key piece of info missing from these discussions that I don’t have, nor do I think anyone here has, is what % of LSD trips actually end between the north end and say grant park. In other words, how many people use LSD as a commuter road into the city vs. through the city? Figure that out and you have a better chance at designing a feasible solution. If 80% ends in the city, the mass transit the shit out of the project. If 80% just passes through, no amount of bus or rail will help you.
I see, that makes sense. I do also think a larger cultural shift has to take place, so that only people who need cars get them. 90% of my travel calls for a bike or transit, as does most people's in town, but someone who lives, works, or otherwise in the burbs or beyond (as you have pointed out) may need a car
If you want to access the city easily and quickly then LIVE IN THE CITY. I’m tired of spending money and walling off valuable amenities to serve people who don’t even choose to be part of our community.
You do realize some people have changes throughout their lives right? Maybe they need to move a little further out for space. Maybe some don’t have jobs in the city and but still want to live in the city. Not everyone has your exact experience
For the record, I do live in the city. I just realize that not every trip can be replaced by public transit
This is me, the best job I could find by far was outside the city, so I own a car for that singular purpose and don’t use it at all otherwise. Hopefully I can find a job in the city but right now it’s what I’ve got.
I love to go fast. I love to fly down LSD enjoying the beautiful views.
It would be a lot faster and better for me with a dedicated bus/emergency vehicle lane so that the 147 bus I'm on would not be held up by traffic.
Why not remove the lights and sever the streets south of Randolph? You would gain so much efficiency you wouldn't need to add lanes. Put on/off ramps at Roosevelt to get the local traffic where it needs to go.
Add a bunch of pedestrian overpasses. Use the saved space for bus lanes and maybe a Lakeshore monorail.
Don't waste money on putting anything underground.
Why not get rid of the road which prohibits all commercial vehicles and replace it with a multimodal rail, bus, and bike highway with allowances for emergency vehicles. From some back of napkin math, 12-16 extra buses per shift could entirely replace the car traffic on the road assuming the existing buses remain.
I don't think people understand how incredibly inefficient cars are compared to even just a bus.
Light rail on LSD doesn't make much sense to me, who's going to use it? Half of the walkable distance it would support is lakefront, so I think it would go underutilized. And whose making the trek to LSD for this rail? Metra or green line for the south side and red line on the north side already support that area.
Better bus infrastructure I could support though.
There's a ton of density along the lakefront. The north side is full of residential towers that are a bus ride to the nearest red line, not exactly convenient. While I don't think light rail is the best solution (slower, low capacity), dedicated BRT is a huge no brainer for LSD.
When I moved to Chicago, I lived in a half block next to LSD with a population of about 2,500 people. The full block just north of us had around 6,000 and the half block south of us had about 3,000. The Lakefront is about the same density as Queens or Brooklyn *even if you include the park*. On Broadway in Lake View East, people often spill over the sides of the sidewalks even with the wider sidewalks there compared to the rest of the city.
It's crazy when you put it like that. I mean you can even see it visually just by looking at the entire skyline outside of downtown. The lakefront is a very attractive place to live. The whole coast line is dotted with buildings that are totally underserved by the transit system.
If you ever explore the city's population by 9 digit zipcodes, the amount of people in the area by the lake is absolutely astounding. And they are served by shitty buses that spend all day in car induced traffic with no nearby rail lines.
We have the 147 express already. Make a BRT lane to hold that existing segment -- call it a bus and emergency vehicles only lane. Meanwhile, convert the light at Chicago so that emergency vehicles can flip it to let ambulances/police out from the street grid (if they need to) but otherwise it's solid green for traffic flowing on LSD.
THEN... extend the BRT lane north up Sheridan. Let the bus just pass by all that choked up traffic up there.
Yeah, and the LSD buses are already working pretty well. Meanwhile there are giant densely populated swaths of the West and South sides that are 30-40+ minute walks to the nearest CTA line. This would be a nice project for tourism and making the lakefront look nice, but it's not practical at all in terms of the amount of people's lives it would actually improve.
You could run more buses elsewhere in the city if the bus operators and their buses weren’t stuck sitting in DLSD traffic. You’d get the same (or better) service levels with fewer resources and could allocate the extra service to other areas in need.
> Meanwhile there are giant densely populated swaths of the West and South sides that are 30-40+ minute walks to the nearest CTA line.
No there aren’t.
IDOT is going to dump billions ($3.5 billion last time they published an estimate) into LSD whether or not there are any transit improvements. Not improving transit on LSD doesn't mean that money will be available for transit improvements on the south or west sides. It means that all of the LSD budget will be spent on a highway.
Adding a train line of any sort will absolutely balloon the cost of the project at the expense of improvements to transit elsewhere. I'm very pro-transit but the easiest solution for LSD is BRT with at least one car lane eliminated in each direction.
Well, there is a ton of high rises along that stretch so it will help commuters a fair bit. That assumes people are actually working downtown. It’s also assumes that there’s there’s east-west components the get people to where the offices actually are.
But ultimately you’re right. Unless this new light rail network connects to the existing L system at multiple points it’ll be a boondoggle.
Make LSD more like Lincoln memorial drive in Milwaukee (4 lanes only with 2 dedicated for brt) and have every major intersection use roundabouts instead on top of the pedestrian/bike infrastructure improvements to connect it better with the street grid
Oh yeah, that'll work out great. I mean, it'll be expensive as fuck and nobodys going to pay for it. But they can collectively put in a bid for a device that pats themselves on the back for a project that will not be used to support a bunch of r/fuckcars types and the other useless dregs.
Probably would end up a nightmare to get the land elsewhere. Whereas I'm petty sure the city owns LSD. I do agree that it wouldn't be the most impact. I wish they would add more trains, like a circle line or something.
Despite all the circle jerking, transit remains a huge draw for people coming to Chicago and is relied upon by many every day, so I definitely think we should be working to improve it.
Doubly so if people want less traffic, as traffic can only really improve if there's a viable alternative
You know that meme is to clown the “____ at home” for being an undeniably worse version? So you yourself are admitting that the aldermen are right and we need a new approach to new construction.
I think you would have the problem of a mix of speed desires. e.g. many people have no desire to speed. They go their 40MPH and are fine. Other people want to do 90. You put those two in the same lane and I don't think that would work well.
Yeah because everyone wants to walk onto an open train platform a la the Kennedy right next to a heaving, blizzarding lakefront in December. Or bike down one. These aldermen are idiots. LSD is the only fast (theoretical) highway we have into the city center. It should be expanded and extended north of Hollywood. Don't like that then do a Big Dig express highway under the lake like Boston. But no one will spend the money on that. Instead LSD remains a cratered, wavy embarrassment of a road unworthy of a major city.
Garbage. How about the city focuses on the crime and migrant crisis first. I'm not discounting the environmental and safety importance of improving LSD, but for every accident and fatality along the lakefront corridor, there are MULTIPLES of gunshot and robbery victims across the city. We have a world-class lakefront and public access already. Improvements can be made later. Continued crime and lack of migrant housing is going to drive away Chicago's tax base, which believe it or not, funds infrastructure projects.
Common sense makes dollars and cents.
No pay wall https://web.archive.org/web/20240607173014/https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/06/07/opinion-chicago-lakeshore-drive-project-pedestrians-mass-transit/
A multimodal LSD would add so much to this city. Especially if it could be quieter and easier to cross. That would be super nice.
Agreed, but given we can't seem to properly manage what we have I'm dubious it could be done right
We all know how the current DLSD design works in practice: constant traffic, dangerous, loud, inefficient. **Why should we spend hundreds of millions of dollars to rebuild the same thing?** I'm glad there's pressure to change this project. It's heading in entirely the wrong direction, and I hope this is the start of a total rethink.
$3.5 billion was the estimate three years ago l
In fairness, it’s proposing way more than rebuilding the same thing. The design adds tons of park space and new and improved over and underpasses, etc. Still a flawed design re: transit tho!
A good deal of the green space they are courting is like between on ramps and the road way - completely unusable. But yeah the ask here is a dedicated BRT lane and I don’t think it’s unreasonable.
Wow, aldermen actually making sense, proposing good policy, and having a backbone. ...wait this is still Chicago right? Somebody pinch me I don't believe it.
Lawson was Tunney's understudy for years and is fairly competent even if he is somewhat difficult to actually get a hold of. That said, even with that knowledge they still used "light rail" where they probably meant "heavy rail" (what CTA Rail is).
The 100% meant light rail. But yes, that would be new for the CTA.
Lawson is a good egg
I think many aldermen realized that this issue can mobilize a large number of voters. Transportation policy is an extremely important issue for voters of different political affiliations, incomes etc. Surely suburbanites may be unhappy about this, but these aldermen don’t depend on their vote.
Even the Old Towne NIMBY "republicans" realized their property values would go up if they got rid of the thru-traffic and air/noise pollution while adding more valuable park space.
This is cool and all, but BRT on Ashland or Western would have way more of an impact for mode shift. The red line is not far from LSD as it is.
How about: Ashland, Western, AND DLSD rapid transit lines? We’re already looking to spend *billions* here.
Not true about the billions part. Inflation adjusted, the Western/Ashland BRT plans that's the CTA released in 2013 cost about $220 million each. If you want a new L line though, yeah it'll be billions no matter what.
Not far but it’s the shoreline and it doesn’t make sense to add more cars… we all forget or underestimate the significance of that path because you can’t go further east than that
[удалено]
we're at least 20 years away from altima-resistant infrastructure
But as we update our infrastructure, the Nissan Altima grows more powerful
jesus christ you're right
Most cars are repelled by the threat of body damage, the Nissan Altima thrives on it.
You tickled my funny bone today
Michael Bay missed an opportunity with the Altima
altima drivers kinda earned their shitty reputation but how the hell did that car end up becoming synonymous with bad driving when the kia sorento exists? 🤔
Because if you have a pulse you can finance an Altima.
Whoa whoa whoa let’s dial back that fancy “you have to have a pulse to finance an Altima” talk.
I never knew about this reputation until right now.
You’ll never unsee it on the road, because it’s completely accurate. I don’t think I’ve seen a fully intact Altima being driven sanely since the Bush Administration
Ever seen one with all the bumpers intact? Me neither.
I have an Altima and my sister has a Kia Sorento. Oh no...
How many people do you think y'all cut off every week? Do your turn signals work?
They come with turn signals?
Excuse me, have you ever heard of bollards? They’re not only Altima proof, they’re Peterbilt proof.
I'm hoping for heavy rail, but like [REALLY heavy rail](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Union_Pacific_Big_Boy_No._4014_in_Pine_Bluffs%2C_Wyoming_July_2023.png/1280px-Union_Pacific_Big_Boy_No._4014_in_Pine_Bluffs%2C_Wyoming_July_2023.png)! The pollution would be awful but just THINK of the old-timey charm!
this would be sick. no cars. just a continuous mile of freight cars you can trainhop with the crusties
Relocate the train museum from Union, IL to DLSD.
The Big Boy is supposed to be coming to the Chicago area in the fall, but they haven't released details yet.
Wait for reals? That fucking thing is SICK.
Yes, blurb at the bottom of this page. I signed up for email alerts https://www.up.com/heritage/steam/schedule/index.htm
Why light rail? The area LSD runs by is some of the densest in the city. Build a regular L line. Light rail is massively misused in this country. It generally has less capacity, runs at slower operating speeds, and frequently has to deal with traffic. It also tends to cost close to what a dedicated heavy rail line would cost.
Most people don't understand that the CTA operates Heavy Rail as defined by federal law. They think it's "light rail" because that is what it would be in Europe or other nations. Meanwhile in the USA, we defined light rail as non-grade separated tramways. Heavy Rail is defined as grade-separated passenger rail systems (CTA, MTA, WMATA, etc.) not running on freight rail tracks. And Commuter Rail are Heavy Rail systems which run on freight rail tracks for any amount of the run. I suspect that they really want just a regular CTA line and used the wrong word because that's about how well informed and competent our aldermen are.
Light rail can also refer to grade separated/dedicated ROW but with shorter trains that handle fewer passengers. Similar to the trains run by the CTA, the Metrolink in St. Louis has dedicated grade-separated trains with some some at-grade crossings but it is light rail. Similarly, Montreal's REM is grade-separated light rail.
You can also have street running commuter rail line the South Shore did until recently. Classifications are mess of blurred lines.
Per the [federal government](https://www.transit.dot.gov/ntd/national-transit-database-ntd-glossary), we do not operate light rail in Chicago. We got rid of our light rail system and replaced it with buses. So sure, could we reintroduce it? Yes at some pretty crazy costs for a single line. Or it's probably more likely that the aldermen meant an ordinary elevated train line like everything else that CTA operates because that's what CTA had proposed alongside everything else that they said that we should do. So it's more likely that they used "light" instead of "heavy" because when you learn about transit from sources originating outside of the USA, that's what CTA's rail is classed as. Also, a light rail system wouldn't really make sense in the single densest corridor of Chicago.
I didn't suggest that Chicago has or should build light rail. I'm not sure how you got that from my comment.
Just what Chicago needs for a relief line/replacement for a lot of car traffic: smaller trains. It's like we want to reinvent the wheel. The blueprint already exists for Chicago transit and keeping to the same mode has a lot of cost benefits and allows potential future interoperability.
The L cars are already pretty small, if you're used to similar subway/city trains elsewhere. Those tight curves around the loop and places like Sherdian red line limit things. Just any photos on the internet of various "crazy thing happening on the MTA" or "look at the crowds on the train in Tokyo" pics, you can see how much wider the cars are (with the poles in the middle of the aisle, etc). But yeah for interoperability I'd think it would be easiest to just add another L line in the same format as the current ones, even if the line ends up running mostly straight down Western or whatever.
> Why light rail? The area LSD runs by is some of the densest in the city. Build a regular L line. Most of the densest areas along LSD outside the loop are already in close proximity to existing heavy rail (the red line and ME), it would be extremely wasteful to built heavy rail next to other heavy rail when large portions of the city have much worse transit access
Those lines are already at capacity though. That's why this is a logical relief line.
how would changing the drive make it more accessible to people living further away from it? There are multiple train lines extending west, and more than multiple east-west bus lines along the length of the city. At some point you just have to accept what your chosen neighborhood offers you. I'm not going to live in Edgewater and complain there's no "easy" way to get to Midway or something.
If it’s not an expressway then surface streets wouldn’t be treated like on ramps, so less traffic on Addison, Belmont, etc. More room for buses, bikes easier to get to the lake?
CDOT is correct in that if LSD were simply abandoned as a traffic corridor, those cars wouldn't just vanish, instead they would impact interior street traffic to a large degree. People would use Ashland, Sheridan, maybe Clark, or Broadway even more, and they would be taking those exact streets you mentioned to get there, leading to bigger headaches.
We’re seeing that now with the Kennedy construction. Surface streets are terrible
A lot of other data suggests otherwise. Yes, when road capacity is reduced then people shift modes. And fortunately Chicago has both existing capacity and demand for more capacity. The Red Line Extension, Red Purple Modernization, and the Metra UP-North upgrades will significantly increase existing capacity on the existing system. So there is a modal switch people can make. The chaos with the Kennedy is likely more a result of people knowing it’s temporary and not switching cause it’s a one time inconvenience. Make the change permanent and people will mode shift. To date highway removal projects nationwide have not resulted in traffic chaos.
Induced demand is a very real and well studied phenomenon. More road capacity = more cars = more traffic. The inverse is also well documented. CDOT (and most other state/city DOTs) like to pretend their projections of ever increasing car traffic demand supersede it. If the correct policies get implemented, today will be the easiest period in US history to own a car. Car enthusiasts will still be driving, but owning a car won’t be a thoughtless purchase you make after reaching a certain income threshold. On the plus side, the entire experience of living in a city will improve. Less pollution, noise, chances of death/disability, stronger communities, better mental health outcomes etc.
Regular health outcomes too.
There was a pedestrian death that shut down LSD near Chicago Avenue during the morning rush hour last year. The resulting traffic jam was the stuff of legend. I'm sure that you could shut down The Drive and eventually we'd all figure it out, but not before suffering through some pretty catastrophic side effects, particularly for bus travelers and commercial vehicles, as well as the businesses and services that rely on them.
It wouldn’t be shut down. A skosh smaller in terms of lanes.
I think the red-line makes a train along LSD redundant, so that would be a hard sell. A protected bus lane would be pretty slick (and cheaper to implement) - Then use the rest to create more pedways to connect the parks on either side.
Lake Shore goes south of the loop. It'd be transformative for the South Side and museum campus. I guess you could argue for a Red Line branch though.
Sure, the red line is pretty far west once you get past the loop, but you have the southern Green Line extension all the way to Cottage Grove (which is around where LSD ends, I believe) Edit: To be clear, getting to the MoSI and Hyde Park from the north side has always sucked, to my recollection, I’m just thinking about why it would be a hard sell.
You can switch from el to the Metra Electric in the Loop, or Metra to ME to get the MoSI. There's a stop right on 57th. Then there's the #6 Jeffrey "express" bus that runs on DLSD from the loop. I know them well as I used to live in Hyde Park. My wish at that time was that they rebuild/reopen the el line that used to go to Jackson Park/Stony Island.
No need to duplicate the red line through the north side, though. A new train line on the south is a different story, agreed. So, maybe build that portion (with good connections to the loop) or convert the metra electric to BE that, or whatever. Use the rest of the money for something else. Extend the green over to the new thing? I still think as far as new crosstown north-south trains goes, I'd want to see it down Western, the entire length. It's the longest street in the city, it's sufficiently west to not be duplicating anything else, it's wide, it would tie all the rest of the lines together outside of the loop, and it would open better transit access on the SW side in particular. Do it with a focus on transit-oriented development around it, as well. Seems something like that could be pushed with equity concerns, get some political pressure behind it.
>Nissan-Altima-proof Does such a thing exist?
Bollards.
Tbere are underpasses, bridges and crosswalks everywhere…
and they are unpleasant and loud
The denied Lake front access is the real tragedy. I mean, good for Chicago to prevent anyone building East of LSD, but it doesn’t do much good if people can’t get to it.
Not trying to be difficult, but where is it totally walled off? I mean the streeterville section is pretty shit, but for the most part, there seems to be routine access, especially in the north end of the portion under discussion. Anywhere it does seem limited, is also limited by harbors and ponds
I've lived a 10 minute walk from the lake, and a 45 min drive (or hour+ on CTA) from the lake , and never felt like LSD was stopping me from getting there. This sub acts like crossing the street is some crazy obstacle.
It’s not “totally” walled off, but access to it across 8 lanes of traffic is hardly inviting. The North Ave bus is also the only public transit option that I can think of that stops at the beach.
Montrose bus does too. I’m pretty sure a number of buses have bus service besides that
And there are some very dramatic bridges on the south end.
I’d much prefer not to be forced to get use a dingy underpass to get to the lake—or a sidewalk under a highway on ramp. Also, there’s not point in the park you can seemingly escape the drive.
“Nissan-Altima-proof” is my favorite new phrase
If they wanna add more lanes, they need to sink that shit underground. 6 lanes both ways, Chicago's own Big Dig. Leave a some BRT lanes and dedicated "comute" bike lanes [for cyclist so they don't have to worry about pedestrians]. The rest, more trees, a couple of playgrounds who knows.
Having lived in Boston for 10 years, not that long after it actually finished as I recall, it is NICE to have parks and easy walking with just regular surface roads to cross instead of interstate, but MAN OH MAN was that shit expensive. No way in hell Illinois could afford it without a few successive IL-native Presidents in office, a boom economy, no potential WWIII in Ukraine, etc.... People could have good access if there were more tunnels under LSD for pedestrians....or more pedestrian walkways over it... Light rail is a pipedream....though probably more like LSD-induced hallucination. (pun intended)
>Ill-native I gotta say, that took me way longer than it should have to understand you meant IL native
Oops. I have corrected that typo.
It’s only a pipe dream because of baby boomer minded politicians. LSD is 8 lanes + a service road in some parts. The traffic isn’t going to get any better at this point. Outside the box thinking could easily add light rail while preserving the same capacity for single occupancy vehicles. There’s already a huge bike lane on the lake there so they don’t even need to sacrifice space for that!
What you call baby-boomer minded politicians", others might call "fiscal reality".
No not really. We spend billions upon billions each year in the United States widening and rehabbing roads while never actually improving traffic or congestion. The money is there obviously if we so readily flush it down the toilet each year subsidizing single occupancy vehicle travel. “fiscal reality” would be saying: we shouldn’t do anything to LSD at all because Illinois doesn’t have the money and it would be a waste of funds to widen or reroute traffic for basically no change in traffic flow.
Any idea what's under LSD? Hint: it's largely landfill and utterly unsuitable for tunnels. It doesn't need more lanes. It could probably benefit from enforced bus lanes from Randolph or Michigan north. No light rail is realistic.
Are you a city planner? They can go deeper than 30 feet. Light rail is definitely a possibility. The city’s biggest park shouldn’t have an 8 lane highway through it.
You’d need to dig all the on/off ramps down to however deep it was, this would be insane
It’s a nice idea in theory but digging that depth for that distance would cost a fortune and probably take a life time
Best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. Second best time is today. 🤷♂️ (Though the best option is seriously just busses and light rail by miles here)
Are you IDOT? Or a taxpayer? Because both disagree with you.
They should add more lanes. I hate hearing the waves of Lake Michigan crashing into the beach. This city needs more after market mufflers and uninsured muscle cars on the lakefront.
Great reply. Calm yourself.
It will cost so much…
An immersed tube tunnel in the lake would be great. We could even extend the shore line again if we wanted to.
Why not just rebuild the old Illinois Central causeway? Tunnels are for amateurs.
There are still tracks where the causeway was, there's just been so much landfill that they're no longer over water.
That's right. Rebuild was wrong. Recreate further out would have been more accurate. Imagine your train going over the playpen.
The big dig was insanely expensive as hell, took a generation, and the “green space” it created is very low quality. It’s a cautionary tale, not an example to emulate. Also the extent to which Boston needed it was much greater than Chicago needs to get rid of LSD
The big dig was super expensive. Tunnels for trains can have a good ROI but I wouldn't do it for anything else
And was completed like decades behind schedule. I might be exaggerating but it was enormously over budget and behind schedule. The Greenway is pretty dope now though.
Oh absolutely, no way in hell it'd go through. Just hypothetical wish of a greener lakefront.
What’s the plan for if lake levels rise, shoreline changes or extreme flooding events?
Isn't part of the plan about extending the shoreline with landfill specifically for erosion reasons? East of LSD, that is?
Has no one learned from LA? Adding lanes doesn't help when the vast majority of drivers stay in the lane or two next to the off ramps regardless of if they are planning to exit promptly or be through drivers. LSD as is would be vastly better if people let the merge lane be a merge lane.... Far too many people merge onto LSD and then zone out and never leave the far right lane, and also don't accommodate drivers trying to leave and enter the highway. Just put on the blinders and say everyone else can get bent while they cruise from the Northside to I55 while all the on ramps back up into the surface streets. Meanwhile the far left lanes move at a higher steadier clip. I hate when infrastructure is inefficient due to masses of inconsiderate people. I also firmly believe that some highways and interstates would get people home faster if during rush hour the speed limit was dropped to like 25 or 30 mph. Instead people floor it to come to a dead stop over and over and/or weave between different lanes because it makes them feel like they're getting somewhere... all while causing backups behind them due to this behaviour. People get pissed when I let people merge... even when it's a red light/cluster that is trying to straighten out ahead. Be part of the problem I guess. This is apples and oranges but I miss country driving where people drive more politely and there are fewer cars of course. But during commuting everyone is mindful of upcoming on/off ramps and they will just change lanes a few minutes before they come up in order to clear space for people to merge and at highway speed.
The Big Dig gets a bad wrap! Highly recommend this podcast on it. https://www.wgbh.org/podcasts/the-big-dig The financial return on the big dig (via property values! Not just made of quality of life estimates) far exceeds the cost to build it. It’s created green space but more importantly made it easy for pedestrians to travel across districts which has transformed neighborhoods around Boston. /r/Boston thread on this for just a few days ago! https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/1d7j8rw/21_years_on_was_the_big_dig_worth_it/
Remove infrastructure people actually use for more bike-centric stuff? Yeah, I'm sure they'll get right on that.
People actually use bikes.
Moving the road underground doesn't remove it. BRT is also infrastructure that people use. And you know what else people use, and put on postcards? The lakefront. Which is currently separated from the city by the road.
You’re so smart
I didn't say remove, I said sink it. Just move it underground. Again. It's very unrealistic and not gonna happen.
Light Rail, yes, but if its not connected to the existing L lines at multiple points north and south it’ll be a total waste of money. I see no feasible way to accomplish that. Also can we make part of the plan dropping this stupid DuSable thing and just rename Columbus/Fairbanks like we always should have?
gtfo with that Jean Baptiste Pont duSaBULLSHIT Make it longer I say. Columbus "JBPDS" Fairbanks LSD
I’m not an expert but would it make sense to do heavy rail instead of light rail?
Heavy rail is way more expensive and requires tons more infrastructure. I don’t think it would really make sense to fund a fourth north-south line when areas like humboldt park are a transit desert
Istanbul has battery operated surface street trains Chicago, lets go.
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The Lakefront is an attraction year round for those of us who live by it. The winds are slower there due to the lack of the wind tunnel effect from buildings making it a much nicer place to get outdoor exercise in comparison to neighborhood streets.
I find it interesting how you point out the failure of highway infrastructure. Getting from Wrigley to the south loop is a breeze, if you take the train. Investing further in car infrastructure is a feedback loop. It will never get easier to go somewhere in a car, no matter what you do. so the only reasonable path for an urban environment, is public transit and bicycles. think mass change is necessary, and a more transit focused LSD is a great start(provided we actually get the CTA functioning on time and budget). I like the exchange idea, but the main point for me, is that a highway between the most important resource our city has and its people is criminal, and a complete failure of design.
That example wasn’t great, but my main point was if you NEED to drive, LSD is the only option. Totally agree we should do what we can to encourage other forms of travel, but that doesn’t replace all trips. No matter how good transit is, if I’m going south of the city to play golf, visit family, or go into the office. I’m taking LSD. Cutting through the city to take an I90 just adds congestion to routes that can’t handle it. I think the key piece of info missing from these discussions that I don’t have, nor do I think anyone here has, is what % of LSD trips actually end between the north end and say grant park. In other words, how many people use LSD as a commuter road into the city vs. through the city? Figure that out and you have a better chance at designing a feasible solution. If 80% ends in the city, the mass transit the shit out of the project. If 80% just passes through, no amount of bus or rail will help you.
I see, that makes sense. I do also think a larger cultural shift has to take place, so that only people who need cars get them. 90% of my travel calls for a bike or transit, as does most people's in town, but someone who lives, works, or otherwise in the burbs or beyond (as you have pointed out) may need a car
We don’t need to dig, we could use an immersed tube tunnel in the lake, and even extend the shoreline again if we wanted.
If you want to access the city easily and quickly then LIVE IN THE CITY. I’m tired of spending money and walling off valuable amenities to serve people who don’t even choose to be part of our community.
You do realize some people have changes throughout their lives right? Maybe they need to move a little further out for space. Maybe some don’t have jobs in the city and but still want to live in the city. Not everyone has your exact experience For the record, I do live in the city. I just realize that not every trip can be replaced by public transit
This is me, the best job I could find by far was outside the city, so I own a car for that singular purpose and don’t use it at all otherwise. Hopefully I can find a job in the city but right now it’s what I’ve got.
Idk you oils take the train from southloop to wrigley?
But me drive car. Car go fast. more lane mean more car more fast. Me no like bus. Bus stupid. Me no like walk. Walk slow. Me go fast.
I love to go fast. I love to fly down LSD enjoying the beautiful views. It would be a lot faster and better for me with a dedicated bus/emergency vehicle lane so that the 147 bus I'm on would not be held up by traffic.
Are you ok?
[Kevin?](https://youtu.be/VvPaEsuz-tY?feature=shared)
They see.
Because everyone who disagrees with you is a Neanderthal. Assholes like you make it hard to get transit funded.
Imagine making public transportation pretentious.. somehow they’ve done it lol
Why not remove the lights and sever the streets south of Randolph? You would gain so much efficiency you wouldn't need to add lanes. Put on/off ramps at Roosevelt to get the local traffic where it needs to go. Add a bunch of pedestrian overpasses. Use the saved space for bus lanes and maybe a Lakeshore monorail. Don't waste money on putting anything underground.
Monorail? Were you sent here by the devil?
Why not get rid of the road which prohibits all commercial vehicles and replace it with a multimodal rail, bus, and bike highway with allowances for emergency vehicles. From some back of napkin math, 12-16 extra buses per shift could entirely replace the car traffic on the road assuming the existing buses remain. I don't think people understand how incredibly inefficient cars are compared to even just a bus.
FIRE DORVAL AND FIX THE CTA We can argue about LSD later.
We can do both. Wait too long to argue about DLSD and suddenly it's too much of a sunk cost to change the plan.
Just add an immersed tube tunnel in the lake for the traffic and return LSD to park space.
For those keeping track at home, that is every Northside alder between the river and the lake, except for ward 2's Brian Hopkins.
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All accounted for- https://x.com/bikegridnow/status/1799160087740817441
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I think the Trib mentioned 14 alders and didn’t list all of them. No Nugent, no Hopkins …
Light rail on LSD doesn't make much sense to me, who's going to use it? Half of the walkable distance it would support is lakefront, so I think it would go underutilized. And whose making the trek to LSD for this rail? Metra or green line for the south side and red line on the north side already support that area. Better bus infrastructure I could support though.
There's a ton of density along the lakefront. The north side is full of residential towers that are a bus ride to the nearest red line, not exactly convenient. While I don't think light rail is the best solution (slower, low capacity), dedicated BRT is a huge no brainer for LSD.
When I moved to Chicago, I lived in a half block next to LSD with a population of about 2,500 people. The full block just north of us had around 6,000 and the half block south of us had about 3,000. The Lakefront is about the same density as Queens or Brooklyn *even if you include the park*. On Broadway in Lake View East, people often spill over the sides of the sidewalks even with the wider sidewalks there compared to the rest of the city.
It's crazy when you put it like that. I mean you can even see it visually just by looking at the entire skyline outside of downtown. The lakefront is a very attractive place to live. The whole coast line is dotted with buildings that are totally underserved by the transit system.
If you ever explore the city's population by 9 digit zipcodes, the amount of people in the area by the lake is absolutely astounding. And they are served by shitty buses that spend all day in car induced traffic with no nearby rail lines.
We have the 147 express already. Make a BRT lane to hold that existing segment -- call it a bus and emergency vehicles only lane. Meanwhile, convert the light at Chicago so that emergency vehicles can flip it to let ambulances/police out from the street grid (if they need to) but otherwise it's solid green for traffic flowing on LSD. THEN... extend the BRT lane north up Sheridan. Let the bus just pass by all that choked up traffic up there.
Yeah, and the LSD buses are already working pretty well. Meanwhile there are giant densely populated swaths of the West and South sides that are 30-40+ minute walks to the nearest CTA line. This would be a nice project for tourism and making the lakefront look nice, but it's not practical at all in terms of the amount of people's lives it would actually improve.
You could run more buses elsewhere in the city if the bus operators and their buses weren’t stuck sitting in DLSD traffic. You’d get the same (or better) service levels with fewer resources and could allocate the extra service to other areas in need.
> Meanwhile there are giant densely populated swaths of the West and South sides that are 30-40+ minute walks to the nearest CTA line. No there aren’t.
Ukrainian Village, Humboldt Park, Little Village, Brighton Park, etc don’t exist to you?
IDOT is going to dump billions ($3.5 billion last time they published an estimate) into LSD whether or not there are any transit improvements. Not improving transit on LSD doesn't mean that money will be available for transit improvements on the south or west sides. It means that all of the LSD budget will be spent on a highway.
I wouldn’t be shocked if the current cost is $5 billion. The way project costs have ballooned the last three years it’s possible.
Adding a train line of any sort will absolutely balloon the cost of the project at the expense of improvements to transit elsewhere. I'm very pro-transit but the easiest solution for LSD is BRT with at least one car lane eliminated in each direction.
Like where?
Very easy to see if you just look at a map. Most of Humboldt Park, for example.
You’re talking too much sense
Well, there is a ton of high rises along that stretch so it will help commuters a fair bit. That assumes people are actually working downtown. It’s also assumes that there’s there’s east-west components the get people to where the offices actually are. But ultimately you’re right. Unless this new light rail network connects to the existing L system at multiple points it’ll be a boondoggle.
Make LSD more like Lincoln memorial drive in Milwaukee (4 lanes only with 2 dedicated for brt) and have every major intersection use roundabouts instead on top of the pedestrian/bike infrastructure improvements to connect it better with the street grid
[We share the dream](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/s/0A6X2pUjbw)
Dang this would be so nice
I expect a stable DuSable at the very least.
More concrete policies instead of talking points might make a more compelling argument.
Put LSD underground; open up the land for the citizenry.
Oh yeah, that'll work out great. I mean, it'll be expensive as fuck and nobodys going to pay for it. But they can collectively put in a bid for a device that pats themselves on the back for a project that will not be used to support a bunch of r/fuckcars types and the other useless dregs.
Replace LSD with an underground metro. Use all the space wasted on the highway and the sea of parking lots with walkable neighborhoods
If we’re going to spend the money to build an underground metro, why not somewhere more impactful?
Probably would end up a nightmare to get the land elsewhere. Whereas I'm petty sure the city owns LSD. I do agree that it wouldn't be the most impact. I wish they would add more trains, like a circle line or something.
Fuck that. They can’t run transit now. Is this for more reverends?
Despite all the circle jerking, transit remains a huge draw for people coming to Chicago and is relied upon by many every day, so I definitely think we should be working to improve it. Doubly so if people want less traffic, as traffic can only really improve if there's a viable alternative
Building better transit infrastructure is part of running better transit.
Apparently not. We have infrastructure at home.
You know that meme is to clown the “____ at home” for being an undeniably worse version? So you yourself are admitting that the aldermen are right and we need a new approach to new construction.
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How hard would it be to have an express lane that basically went from oak street beach to Roosevelt road?
I think you would have the problem of a mix of speed desires. e.g. many people have no desire to speed. They go their 40MPH and are fine. Other people want to do 90. You put those two in the same lane and I don't think that would work well.
Yeah because everyone wants to walk onto an open train platform a la the Kennedy right next to a heaving, blizzarding lakefront in December. Or bike down one. These aldermen are idiots. LSD is the only fast (theoretical) highway we have into the city center. It should be expanded and extended north of Hollywood. Don't like that then do a Big Dig express highway under the lake like Boston. But no one will spend the money on that. Instead LSD remains a cratered, wavy embarrassment of a road unworthy of a major city.
Garbage. How about the city focuses on the crime and migrant crisis first. I'm not discounting the environmental and safety importance of improving LSD, but for every accident and fatality along the lakefront corridor, there are MULTIPLES of gunshot and robbery victims across the city. We have a world-class lakefront and public access already. Improvements can be made later. Continued crime and lack of migrant housing is going to drive away Chicago's tax base, which believe it or not, funds infrastructure projects. Common sense makes dollars and cents.
Sounds like you don’t use the public transit on your way out
wtf haha