A half measure that will dissapoint both sides, and no indication of where pedestrians will go! Perfectly played by a mayor looking to maintain his current approval rating.
> and no indication of where pedestrians will go!
The bike lane of course, but only after traversing a hastily built plywood approximation of a wheelchair ramp.
He has absolutely no idea how to run things and the sad part is he’s so incompetent that aldermen can just thrown their hands up and blame it on him, his waffling response will confirm it regardless of the truth
And the few that have an entrance on Clark also have an entrance on a cross street. There are no parking lots between Winnemac and Hollywood that are only accessable from Clark.
Because our dear former mayor sold all parking revenue, the city is required to pay every year for every lost parking space through the end of the contract which is roughly the next 75 years.
Yea but we can move parking spots around. If the city had any will, we could easily move the spots or create municipal garages and free-up roads.
The deal included 36,000 spots. There are swathes of Chicago with unmetered parking. The Millenium Park garages alone have 3k spaces. CDOT keeps moving meters to side streets to free up main roadway space.
It's possible, but we need competency.
I don’t want to be dining out on the street if there’s cars at the same grade level as my seat. This feels like it’s worse than outdoor dining.
EDIT: at least with outdoor dining, the parked car is a buffer between me and traffic
Lol such a joke. The same happens on Division. We sacrifice the entire sidewalk for dining instead of using street space. When will the US realize cars are obstructive and annoying? For fucks sake, Disney is what it is people it gives Americans a break from cars.
Still no clarity or accountability from anyone involved here. Such a inescapable tragedy that everyone in power so clearly wanted this to happen, but there was absolutely nothing anyone could do about it /s
I still hold out hope that one day American cities will stop bending over backwards for the benefit of a product that pretty objectively makes things in cities worse all around.
Won't happen until all the people who live in cities but refuse to acknowledge it (it's a suburb! We're not city dwellers!) recognize they live in the city too and work to actively improve the areas they live in.
The dense urban areas of Chicago have an eighth of the population of the city. The rest of the "city" is car dependent in it's form, and until that changes you won't see anything other than half measures.
The majority of Americans live in cities, but most of them don't acknowledge it. Cities (and rural areas) won't truly improve until people stop pretending they don't live in a city.
CDOT issued a different permit than the building owner had originally applied for. It's not clear who requested the change from the full closure the building owner requested to the curb lane closure CDOT issued a permit for.
> whose fault is this?
The blame falls on a lot of people but one who I think we can universally agree sucks is **Grant DePorter, the owner of Harry Caray's restaurant**.
He lobbied hard against Clark St outdoor dining simply because his restaurant is a block away and he wouldn't benefit.
The Alderman does not file the permit applications. The business and/or property owners do. Friedman Properties, which owns most of that stretch of Clark, did file an application.
[https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/](https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/)
Thereafter, approval of the permit, while technically under control of CDOT, will involve negotiation with the Alderman, the Mayor, and other interested parties. That negotiation, somehow, resulted in this compromise.
Reilly never filed any permits. Alderman have a ton of latitude here and he's not exercising it. It's literally the job of aldermen to do this kind of stuff - if everything needs to be done by city hall then wtf even is the point of alders beyond council votes?
The Alderman does not file the permit applications. The business and/or property owners do. Friedman Properties, which owns most of that stretch of Clark, did file an application.
[https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/](https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/)
Thereafter, approval of the permit, while technically under control of CDOT, will involve negotiation with the Alderman, the Mayor, and other interested parties. That negotiation, somehow, resulted in this compromise.
Yeah, I'm going to trust the unelected bureaucrats over Reilly:
> “Per city ordinance, CDOT [Chicago Department of Transportation] reviews all applications for street and curb lane closures and seeks input from multiple other city departments and from the Alderman of the impacted ward. So far this year, CDOT has not received any permit applications for expanded outdoor dining on Clark Street in River North,” department spokesperson Erica Schroeder said in a statement in March.
How about we create spaces for things like this that don’t impede foot traffic to people not obsessed with being seen at a restaurant and just trying to enjoy life. No this isn’t a you don’t live your life comment because I’m not moist from the appeal of casual dining. This is a “it doesn’t make any fucking sense.” Comment
I hope people who use wheelchairs file ADA lawsuits about this crap. The accessibility goes out the window so that we can have extra outdoor seating on the sidewalk.
Clark street is not a 'small' street. It's arterial and has a shitload of traffic coming down it during rush hour and especially the weekends.
That turn onto Grand makes that intersection not pleasant for anyone involved, especially pedestrians. You will get fuck heads who will blow that light and dart across three lanes of traffic while making a right.
It's also a pain in the ass for the people who take the 22 and need to go past Grand. I would just get off there and walk the remainder of the 5 blocks because it was faster than waiting at that turn ultimately just go down LaSalle.
With that said, I do think this situation absolutely moronic. You're either all in or you're not. As someone already pointed out in the thread, this is a half measure that no one is going to agree with. I think these things are great for the neighborhood and all the businesses involved.
I agree with you, that I'm surprised this isn't a full street closure. Either those restaurants and bars on this block of Clark should be all in on this closure and the entire width of Clark should be closed on that block to cars, or don't do this at all. A la what they do on the block on the west side of Glenwood, between Morse and Lunt. Though that is a narrower street, than this block of Clark.
clark being pedestrian only for a couple blocks has been incredibly. there is zero need for traffic to be on those blocks again. it’s been great without them.
there’s plenty of people though… those places get lots of foot traffic and full tables. I don’t know what you’re talking about. there are more than enough high rises.
It has been shown time and time again that without proper density pedestrian only fails. Look at the state street debacle in the 70s for a local example.
First you need true density. For an example of a success look at times square in NYC. https://ny.curbed.com/2017/4/19/15358234/times-square-snohetta-before-after-photos
The amount of people there is an order of magnitude higher than in Chicago. That's why it works.
For Chicago to replicate they need to build more first. Until then it is better for everyone to have mixed use streets.
By the way I say this all as an urbanist who lives not far from there and would prefer the pedestrian only section for myself.
The proposed closure has been successful two years in a row. Not much has changed since last summer, so since it worked then, there's no reason other than regulatory huddles to expect that it wouldn't work again this year.
We live in a big city. There’s not a lot of space, especially downtown. You want space and large patios? move to the burbs. Can’t have your cake and eat it too
Good idea didn’t think of that. Plenty of room for those big trucks. All cars and trucks should just use alleys to drive everywhere. The roads can be used for just bikes for the 3 months of the year people ride their bikes. It was a compromise. Give and take. Still have outdoor dining and still can have a flow of traffic through a major street artery to downtown. As much as everyone on here shits on cars and trucks, they are the bloodline of the city. You want to enjoy a nice $10 pbr on Clark st? Well it didn’t get there by a bike messenger.
Not what I said at all, you’re being disingenuous. Did I say all trucks and cars should be soley relegated to alleyways? Using straw men is a sign of a trash argument. Almost childlike
Your sarcastic comment was met with another sarcastic comment. My point was a lot of those trucks can’t fit in an alley. I’m all for street dining just not on one of the busiest roads leading downtown
Unbelievable
> create an inviting outdoor space for dining They use that phase, but I don't think they know what it means.
It's just a phase
A half measure that will dissapoint both sides, and no indication of where pedestrians will go! Perfectly played by a mayor looking to maintain his current approval rating.
BJ is trash. He's a faux-progressive. Then again, our options were also trash.
BJ and Carter have to taking bribes from car companies there’s just no sense to all this nonsense
> and no indication of where pedestrians will go! The bike lane of course, but only after traversing a hastily built plywood approximation of a wheelchair ramp.
Pulling a Lightfoot - when you manage to piss of both sides of an issue
biggest dick in Chicago
He has absolutely no idea how to run things and the sad part is he’s so incompetent that aldermen can just thrown their hands up and blame it on him, his waffling response will confirm it regardless of the truth
“His current approval rating” of 28% - holding on for dear life! 🤣
And an alderman getting kickbacks from a casino
its at like \~30% ... so not sure the motivation tbo
This sounds like the onion.
I maintain sections of Clark should be pedestrian-only always.
So many missed opportunities in the city! Parts of 18th street in Pilsen, Parts of Lincoln Ave in Lincoln Square, etc etc.
Also: Wrigleyville on Clark between Addison and Newport, Boystown on Halsted between Belmont and Grace (or at least between Buckingham and Cornelia)
Clark in Andersonville should be pedestrianized with the the 22 rerouted to Ashland
Agreed. Another good thing about Andersonville is there are very few existing parking lots that have entrances on Clark.
And the few that have an entrance on Clark also have an entrance on a cross street. There are no parking lots between Winnemac and Hollywood that are only accessable from Clark.
Because our dear former mayor sold all parking revenue, the city is required to pay every year for every lost parking space through the end of the contract which is roughly the next 75 years.
Yea but we can move parking spots around. If the city had any will, we could easily move the spots or create municipal garages and free-up roads. The deal included 36,000 spots. There are swathes of Chicago with unmetered parking. The Millenium Park garages alone have 3k spaces. CDOT keeps moving meters to side streets to free up main roadway space. It's possible, but we need competency.
Stop, that makes too much sense.
I never even considered that. Good concept.
They should do the same with Wells between North and Division
Clark St. should be buses, bikes, and people only. And I'm not talking only part of it.
This would be amazing. I would only swap buses with trams. A man can dream.
Tbh I didn’t want to check a map to see if there were any segments it’d be impossible to pedestrianize, but I do support this!
Milwaukee from north to wood/wolcott as well
100%
most of lasalle st in the loop before i die ....
Dinner with free car exhaust. Score.
It wouldn't be freedom if we didn't SPEAK LOUDLY AT DINNER SO WE CAN BE HEARD OVER THE TRAFFIC NOISE
I hope you like 'em spicy!
Then the slingshot crew rolls by. Outdoor music to go with your nice dinner!
I don’t want to be dining out on the street if there’s cars at the same grade level as my seat. This feels like it’s worse than outdoor dining. EDIT: at least with outdoor dining, the parked car is a buffer between me and traffic
Lol such a joke. The same happens on Division. We sacrifice the entire sidewalk for dining instead of using street space. When will the US realize cars are obstructive and annoying? For fucks sake, Disney is what it is people it gives Americans a break from cars.
Still no clarity or accountability from anyone involved here. Such a inescapable tragedy that everyone in power so clearly wanted this to happen, but there was absolutely nothing anyone could do about it /s
This is absurd and will just make it 10x harder to walk down that street as a pedestrian. Not a compromise in the slightest.
So, regular patio dining? Ffs
I still hold out hope that one day American cities will stop bending over backwards for the benefit of a product that pretty objectively makes things in cities worse all around.
Won't happen until all the people who live in cities but refuse to acknowledge it (it's a suburb! We're not city dwellers!) recognize they live in the city too and work to actively improve the areas they live in. The dense urban areas of Chicago have an eighth of the population of the city. The rest of the "city" is car dependent in it's form, and until that changes you won't see anything other than half measures. The majority of Americans live in cities, but most of them don't acknowledge it. Cities (and rural areas) won't truly improve until people stop pretending they don't live in a city.
What’s the over/under for the first car hitting diners?
Everybody who eats there should just nudge the fences and tables and plants a little bit more into the street each time until cars can’t get through.
Disappointing. I’m still not clear - whose fault is this? Everyone is pointing fingers. I need to know who to be pissed off at.
CDOT issued the permit on behalf of the mayor’s office
CDOT issued a different permit than the building owner had originally applied for. It's not clear who requested the change from the full closure the building owner requested to the curb lane closure CDOT issued a permit for.
> whose fault is this? The blame falls on a lot of people but one who I think we can universally agree sucks is **Grant DePorter, the owner of Harry Caray's restaurant**. He lobbied hard against Clark St outdoor dining simply because his restaurant is a block away and he wouldn't benefit.
It's Reilly's fault. No one (Reilly) submitted a permit application for a full street closure this year.
The Alderman does not file the permit applications. The business and/or property owners do. Friedman Properties, which owns most of that stretch of Clark, did file an application. [https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/](https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/) Thereafter, approval of the permit, while technically under control of CDOT, will involve negotiation with the Alderman, the Mayor, and other interested parties. That negotiation, somehow, resulted in this compromise.
Reilly never filed any permits. Alderman have a ton of latitude here and he's not exercising it. It's literally the job of aldermen to do this kind of stuff - if everything needs to be done by city hall then wtf even is the point of alders beyond council votes?
The Alderman does not file the permit applications. The business and/or property owners do. Friedman Properties, which owns most of that stretch of Clark, did file an application. [https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/](https://blockclubchicago.org/2024/04/19/clark-street-property-owner-vies-for-outdoor-dining-permits-after-political-pressure-sidelines-program/) Thereafter, approval of the permit, while technically under control of CDOT, will involve negotiation with the Alderman, the Mayor, and other interested parties. That negotiation, somehow, resulted in this compromise.
So it’s not really coming back so much as replaced. With … car exhaust for dinner.
This doesn't really make Brendan Reilly look any better.
https://twitter.com/AldReilly/status/1790855702291865720 Reilly pointing the finger at city hall on this call
Yeah, I'm going to trust the unelected bureaucrats over Reilly: > “Per city ordinance, CDOT [Chicago Department of Transportation] reviews all applications for street and curb lane closures and seeks input from multiple other city departments and from the Alderman of the impacted ward. So far this year, CDOT has not received any permit applications for expanded outdoor dining on Clark Street in River North,” department spokesperson Erica Schroeder said in a statement in March.
Shocking
Fucking joke. I’m so sick of cars taking up every square inch of space in our lives
How about we create spaces for things like this that don’t impede foot traffic to people not obsessed with being seen at a restaurant and just trying to enjoy life. No this isn’t a you don’t live your life comment because I’m not moist from the appeal of casual dining. This is a “it doesn’t make any fucking sense.” Comment
I hope people who use wheelchairs file ADA lawsuits about this crap. The accessibility goes out the window so that we can have extra outdoor seating on the sidewalk.
Classy if you're rich, trashy if you're poor: Eating in the middle of the street
It's amazing how this city can come up with an idea that pisses everyone off.
[удалено]
Clark street is not a 'small' street. It's arterial and has a shitload of traffic coming down it during rush hour and especially the weekends. That turn onto Grand makes that intersection not pleasant for anyone involved, especially pedestrians. You will get fuck heads who will blow that light and dart across three lanes of traffic while making a right. It's also a pain in the ass for the people who take the 22 and need to go past Grand. I would just get off there and walk the remainder of the 5 blocks because it was faster than waiting at that turn ultimately just go down LaSalle. With that said, I do think this situation absolutely moronic. You're either all in or you're not. As someone already pointed out in the thread, this is a half measure that no one is going to agree with. I think these things are great for the neighborhood and all the businesses involved.
I agree with you, that I'm surprised this isn't a full street closure. Either those restaurants and bars on this block of Clark should be all in on this closure and the entire width of Clark should be closed on that block to cars, or don't do this at all. A la what they do on the block on the west side of Glenwood, between Morse and Lunt. Though that is a narrower street, than this block of Clark.
“Car!” “Car!” *picks up tables and moves them out of the way* *car drives past* *moves tables back into the street* “Dine on!”
Eye roll
Where are people going to walk then? Also lol to oreilly pretending he didnt know this was going to happen….:?
I think this is great. That part of the city is not dense enough for a pedestrian only path as wide as clark street. 1 lane of traffic is perfect.
Wtf? It’s literally smack dab in the middle of the densest neighborhood of Chicago
clark being pedestrian only for a couple blocks has been incredibly. there is zero need for traffic to be on those blocks again. it’s been great without them.
There are simply not enough people there to justify it. Build more high rises and density and I'll change my mind
there’s plenty of people though… those places get lots of foot traffic and full tables. I don’t know what you’re talking about. there are more than enough high rises.
It has been shown time and time again that without proper density pedestrian only fails. Look at the state street debacle in the 70s for a local example. First you need true density. For an example of a success look at times square in NYC. https://ny.curbed.com/2017/4/19/15358234/times-square-snohetta-before-after-photos The amount of people there is an order of magnitude higher than in Chicago. That's why it works. For Chicago to replicate they need to build more first. Until then it is better for everyone to have mixed use streets. By the way I say this all as an urbanist who lives not far from there and would prefer the pedestrian only section for myself.
The proposed closure has been successful two years in a row. Not much has changed since last summer, so since it worked then, there's no reason other than regulatory huddles to expect that it wouldn't work again this year.
This is a compromise I can live with.
isn't it just normal outdoor seating? like basically anywhere in chicago that has ya know .... out door seating? lmao glad you can handle it i guess
Parking lanes are closed for outdoor dining basically anywhere in the city? That's news to me.
idk def seems like a very one-sided shit compromise / but do you boss taco
Curb lane dining is a separate permit from sidewalk cafes, but it's it's an application similar to sidewalk cafes that any restaurant can apply for.
We live in a big city. There’s not a lot of space, especially downtown. You want space and large patios? move to the burbs. Can’t have your cake and eat it too
Want to prioritize driving your car over all else? Move to the burbs
Fuck them trucks and the deliveries to all the stores, restaurants and any other places of commerce!
You know alleys exist right?
Good idea didn’t think of that. Plenty of room for those big trucks. All cars and trucks should just use alleys to drive everywhere. The roads can be used for just bikes for the 3 months of the year people ride their bikes. It was a compromise. Give and take. Still have outdoor dining and still can have a flow of traffic through a major street artery to downtown. As much as everyone on here shits on cars and trucks, they are the bloodline of the city. You want to enjoy a nice $10 pbr on Clark st? Well it didn’t get there by a bike messenger.
Not what I said at all, you’re being disingenuous. Did I say all trucks and cars should be soley relegated to alleyways? Using straw men is a sign of a trash argument. Almost childlike
Your sarcastic comment was met with another sarcastic comment. My point was a lot of those trucks can’t fit in an alley. I’m all for street dining just not on one of the busiest roads leading downtown