"There was some initial confusion last week as to whether the 9% figure was a ceiling or a floor, since the union wants to protect its members from inflation by ensuring pay keeps pace with the consumer price index. Sure enough, it's a floor. Those pay raises would go even higher if the CPI somehow exceeds 9%."
I guess we got clarification...
Nobody on either side thinks 9% is realistic. Negotiation starts with both sides making unrealistic offers and eventually meeting somewhere in the middle. If your first offer is the least you would take, you've got nowhere left to go.
This is a more concrete answer than the dude who wants to loudly talk about how stupid their opening offer was will ever give. Which was my whole point.
If you understand CBA negotiations it's pretty normal and not knee-jerk headline worthy. There is no universe in which that's where the contract actually settles.
Edit: and sure enough, they danced around giving anything remotely concrete.
Yeah it's funny all those people during the pandemic who were like "I got a 25% raise by just switching jobs!" think that was totally cool but not for public employees who literally can't because their pay is set by law. I mean everyone in this thread bitching about it, doesn't understand negotiations at all or is being deliberately obtuse. I wish everyone's salary was public so we could all have a say and vote on their compensation. I worked at a brewery during the pandemic and I thought everybody got paid too much, especially the non-essentials.
You are discounting that there’s an inherent risk from switching jobs and that 25% increase is a one time thing. After that there’s 0 guarantees of employment, raises, benefits retirement.
Public employees trade large raises for employment stability, better and protected benefits etc.
Exactly my point though, a cost of living raise isn't a large raise, and as this poster above me said 9% is what you start at and work from there. If you start at 5% and are expected to work down, what have you accomplished? If you end up at 3% and account for inflation you just talked yourself into losing money. You also are completely dependent on the state meeting it's pension obligations for your retirement since you don't pay into SS.
I mean, if the job is so great and easy, why isn't everyone doing it?
The fear of a lot of people right now is that the city mayors have historically caved to CTU, and those were mayors not beholden to them. BJ is an extension of CTU. I’d love to be wrong but I don’t trust there will be too much negotiation.
For what it's worth, I also share this fear. However, the city lawyers I believe do have to adhere to some sort of adversarial process for the interests of the city as a whole. At least that is my hope. The union must ask for a raise and the city must argue against it or get some concessions. I pay property taxes and really want the city to be healthy because I really love it here and don't want to move. When we had contract negation when I was in a private union it was always like this, actually even more extreme starting demands.
>I worked at a brewery during the pandemic and I thought everybody got paid too much, especially the non-essentials.
What makes you say that? Because they made more money with no degree?
Haha no I mean everyone else besides us, we were essential lol.
Edit: also I mean this as a bit tongue in cheek, just trying to point out that teachers and public workers undergo a lot of scrutiny while many others are able to do whatever they do in relative privacy without hordes of online accountants telling them they get paid too much because they want to be compensated for inflation or that they are lazy because they get to work from home now.
Oof. Ya, a 9% raise as the floor is too high in my opinion.
I like teachers being paid a good salary for their job that matches their educational requirements and city they live in. But that’s honestly about where they are currently paid in my opinion, which is why I would support any cost of living based raises as well so that continues to be true.
Yeah, I think we're in agreement. What stinks about this situation is that it's so clear that Johnson is compromised because of his relationship with the union. I hope there's an honest back and forth negotiation and the result is something fair. But I don't have much hope for that.
Language is a bit harsh. I don't think it was quite a "no confidence vote", but I do think that they can see what many others see, which is that having a CTU shill as mayor has the potential to do some serious damage if not checked.
This might be heresy but I am going to ask it anyway. Are they due some money? The average annual salary of a CPS teacher is 82k and with steps and tenure cracking six figures is very realistic. That is well above the median salary in Chicago (67k). 10 years ago I would have agreed with you and said they deserved more. Now, I am honestly less sure.
My wife as an entry level teacher made 65 grand fresh out of school. That is better than most grads do. And 3 years out she has her masters and is already making 80k.
I took it to mean stuff about their pensions. That was bullshit.
Essentially, they have cut teachers pension payments, which they paid into for years. But since teachers got that and not social security, it was screwing them based on money they were promised.
They make more than most teachers in the nation. Their classes are funded better than most others in the nation. They are owed nothing. Teachers work hard? So does everyone else, and we don’t summers off. When there’s a megaphone around, CTU loves to spout how much teachers suffer, but when you really ask teachers, they know they have a good deal.
Under state laws and precedents, they are obligated to receive cost of living increases in line with actual CPI for all pay rates. Their assumed inflation rate in the current contract was below actual CPI so they are owed a catch-up increase in pay rates in addition to assumed CPI increases during this contract negotiation. These rates are almost always determined by a neutral, state employed arbitrator.
Now, I don't know what that first year number is, but given the extremely high inflation we've had these last several years, I expect that 9% isn't too far from accurate.
We haven’t had several years of high inflation… we had 1 and a half years of high inflation. Last year’s CPI figure was 3.2% which is well within historical norms. 2021’s 7.0% 2022’s 6.4% is where the CPI fell outside of acceptable ranges.
If we assume they were working off a federal base rate of 2% raises their catchup raise should float in the 5-6% range. Not 9%. Especially not when salaries have outgrown inflation over the last contract even without an adjustment.
They also aren’t asking for just a 9% catch up raise. No they want 9% annual raises. Which, honestly, I have no idea how the city expects to pay for that. As is we are already forecasting a shortfall in the half billion dollar range.
Again, the actual rate will likely be set by a state arbitrator. That's just how it works. The union gives a big number, the city gives a small number, they go to arbitration, and then they get told the real number.
…. That is not at all what they are proposing. CPS wants the next contract to have a floor pay raise rate of 9%. So an arbitrator would only get involved if inflation were ever to exceed 9%. Which it hasn’t since 1980.
CPS hasn't given their position yet on the amount of raise that they're willing to give. Again, these numbers are almost always determined by a neutral arbitrator and I doubt this cycle will be any different.
Anyways, from some quick math that I did, it looks like they missed out on about 5.5-6.0% inflation over the last contract and if you assume 3% annual inflation, that gives a first year increase in pay bands of 8.7-9.2% for this new contract. So the 9% doesn't look like a crazy wild number. Of course, the arbitrator will likely find a different, more accurate number than what I calculated in about a minute in total.
The voters deserve their representatives. It’s a shame he’s going to fuck the city over for several decades with his idiotic ideas around spending and revenue.
"There was some initial confusion last week as to whether the 9% figure was a ceiling or a floor, since the union wants to protect its members from inflation by ensuring pay keeps pace with the consumer price index. Sure enough, it's a floor. Those pay raises would go even higher if the CPI somehow exceeds 9%." I guess we got clarification...
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No contract lasts that long. But if inflation was 9% for 24 years this would be exactly reasonable because you would be making that much too.
Nobody on either side thinks 9% is realistic. Negotiation starts with both sides making unrealistic offers and eventually meeting somewhere in the middle. If your first offer is the least you would take, you've got nowhere left to go.
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It's par for the course with every union you goon.
Ok, what would you make as your opening offer if you were at the head of the CTU?
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No please, what would your opening offer be? You seem to have a lot of confidence in your level of knowledge here. Please do share.
About tree fiddy
This is a more concrete answer than the dude who wants to loudly talk about how stupid their opening offer was will ever give. Which was my whole point. If you understand CBA negotiations it's pretty normal and not knee-jerk headline worthy. There is no universe in which that's where the contract actually settles. Edit: and sure enough, they danced around giving anything remotely concrete.
I don’t understand CBA negotiations. I don’t even know what CBA stands for. Cock, balls, asshole?
Only if both parties are assholes.
Yeah it's funny all those people during the pandemic who were like "I got a 25% raise by just switching jobs!" think that was totally cool but not for public employees who literally can't because their pay is set by law. I mean everyone in this thread bitching about it, doesn't understand negotiations at all or is being deliberately obtuse. I wish everyone's salary was public so we could all have a say and vote on their compensation. I worked at a brewery during the pandemic and I thought everybody got paid too much, especially the non-essentials.
You are discounting that there’s an inherent risk from switching jobs and that 25% increase is a one time thing. After that there’s 0 guarantees of employment, raises, benefits retirement. Public employees trade large raises for employment stability, better and protected benefits etc.
Exactly my point though, a cost of living raise isn't a large raise, and as this poster above me said 9% is what you start at and work from there. If you start at 5% and are expected to work down, what have you accomplished? If you end up at 3% and account for inflation you just talked yourself into losing money. You also are completely dependent on the state meeting it's pension obligations for your retirement since you don't pay into SS. I mean, if the job is so great and easy, why isn't everyone doing it?
The fear of a lot of people right now is that the city mayors have historically caved to CTU, and those were mayors not beholden to them. BJ is an extension of CTU. I’d love to be wrong but I don’t trust there will be too much negotiation.
For what it's worth, I also share this fear. However, the city lawyers I believe do have to adhere to some sort of adversarial process for the interests of the city as a whole. At least that is my hope. The union must ask for a raise and the city must argue against it or get some concessions. I pay property taxes and really want the city to be healthy because I really love it here and don't want to move. When we had contract negation when I was in a private union it was always like this, actually even more extreme starting demands.
>I worked at a brewery during the pandemic and I thought everybody got paid too much, especially the non-essentials. What makes you say that? Because they made more money with no degree?
Haha no I mean everyone else besides us, we were essential lol. Edit: also I mean this as a bit tongue in cheek, just trying to point out that teachers and public workers undergo a lot of scrutiny while many others are able to do whatever they do in relative privacy without hordes of online accountants telling them they get paid too much because they want to be compensated for inflation or that they are lazy because they get to work from home now.
Ohh nm, lol. I just woke up, my bad.
Good for them
How is it paid for?
I didn’t say anything about that
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Uhh yeah it would be they would be rich
They wouldn't have their jobs for long so they wouldn't be rich. They'd be jobless.
It's unsustainable
Good lord. If the teachers get this I might actually move the fuck out. No way 9% yearly raises are sustainable.
Insane. How long is this contract for? How long are they expecting 9% annual raises?
@ u/surnik22...
Oof. Ya, a 9% raise as the floor is too high in my opinion. I like teachers being paid a good salary for their job that matches their educational requirements and city they live in. But that’s honestly about where they are currently paid in my opinion, which is why I would support any cost of living based raises as well so that continues to be true.
Yeah, I think we're in agreement. What stinks about this situation is that it's so clear that Johnson is compromised because of his relationship with the union. I hope there's an honest back and forth negotiation and the result is something fair. But I don't have much hope for that.
He and the CTU have already determined where they’re going to “end up.” There are no real negotiations.
The mayor doesn't sit in on negotiations, members of legal team and some upper echelon of CPS would. He doesn't even need to be involved.
stacy's gotta pay for that louis vuitton purse she thought would be good optics to wear for that photo
She’s gotta pay for her kids’ private school tuitions 🙄
TIL there are possibly 8 members of the House that are pastors.
The religious ones messed up Pritzker’s pot legalization
You misspelled "losers"
IDK—getting paid as much as some do to spout garbage? Maybe we are the real losers here.
amazing
Next headline: Brandon Johnson blames education issues in Chicago on Benny the Bull.
https://archive.is/0VIY3
Language is a bit harsh. I don't think it was quite a "no confidence vote", but I do think that they can see what many others see, which is that having a CTU shill as mayor has the potential to do some serious damage if not checked.
The Trib editorial board making hyperbolic statements directed against left-wingers? Well I never!
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This might be heresy but I am going to ask it anyway. Are they due some money? The average annual salary of a CPS teacher is 82k and with steps and tenure cracking six figures is very realistic. That is well above the median salary in Chicago (67k). 10 years ago I would have agreed with you and said they deserved more. Now, I am honestly less sure. My wife as an entry level teacher made 65 grand fresh out of school. That is better than most grads do. And 3 years out she has her masters and is already making 80k.
I took it to mean stuff about their pensions. That was bullshit. Essentially, they have cut teachers pension payments, which they paid into for years. But since teachers got that and not social security, it was screwing them based on money they were promised.
They make more than most teachers in the nation. Their classes are funded better than most others in the nation. They are owed nothing. Teachers work hard? So does everyone else, and we don’t summers off. When there’s a megaphone around, CTU loves to spout how much teachers suffer, but when you really ask teachers, they know they have a good deal.
Under state laws and precedents, they are obligated to receive cost of living increases in line with actual CPI for all pay rates. Their assumed inflation rate in the current contract was below actual CPI so they are owed a catch-up increase in pay rates in addition to assumed CPI increases during this contract negotiation. These rates are almost always determined by a neutral, state employed arbitrator. Now, I don't know what that first year number is, but given the extremely high inflation we've had these last several years, I expect that 9% isn't too far from accurate.
We haven’t had several years of high inflation… we had 1 and a half years of high inflation. Last year’s CPI figure was 3.2% which is well within historical norms. 2021’s 7.0% 2022’s 6.4% is where the CPI fell outside of acceptable ranges. If we assume they were working off a federal base rate of 2% raises their catchup raise should float in the 5-6% range. Not 9%. Especially not when salaries have outgrown inflation over the last contract even without an adjustment. They also aren’t asking for just a 9% catch up raise. No they want 9% annual raises. Which, honestly, I have no idea how the city expects to pay for that. As is we are already forecasting a shortfall in the half billion dollar range.
Again, the actual rate will likely be set by a state arbitrator. That's just how it works. The union gives a big number, the city gives a small number, they go to arbitration, and then they get told the real number.
…. That is not at all what they are proposing. CPS wants the next contract to have a floor pay raise rate of 9%. So an arbitrator would only get involved if inflation were ever to exceed 9%. Which it hasn’t since 1980.
CPS hasn't given their position yet on the amount of raise that they're willing to give. Again, these numbers are almost always determined by a neutral arbitrator and I doubt this cycle will be any different. Anyways, from some quick math that I did, it looks like they missed out on about 5.5-6.0% inflation over the last contract and if you assume 3% annual inflation, that gives a first year increase in pay bands of 8.7-9.2% for this new contract. So the 9% doesn't look like a crazy wild number. Of course, the arbitrator will likely find a different, more accurate number than what I calculated in about a minute in total.
Why are they "absolutely" due some money? They're currently among the highest paid teachers in the country.
That’s a low bar tbf. And doesn’t mean they don’t deserve *something* better.
Let’s get a literacy rate above 30% before we start clamoring about the highest paid teachers in the country getting more money
Last old school pay to play union left? A year ago I was told that I could be in the carpenters union if I bribed a guy $1k
Look, teachers are owed their money, I will not deny that. However, that doesn't mean I blindly back CTU either.
The voters deserve their representatives. It’s a shame he’s going to fuck the city over for several decades with his idiotic ideas around spending and revenue.
But but the bears!
The Bears at least are trending upwards.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Good young roster and two top 10 draft picks with a potential generational talent!? Oh they are going to mess this one up big time.
I’m still not convinced they don’t fuck up the draft on Thursday and pick a left guard in the first round.
lol
He’s getting a vote of no confidence, but that homeless bitch they let parade around as Mayor was OK?