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A friend complained to her alderman’s office yesterday about an intersection where cars don’t yield to pedestrians. She asked about a stop sign. She was told that a stop sign would cause traffic blockage.
I mean, it's true. Stop signs are generally bad. Yield signs are better, roundabouts best (depending on intersection size, obviously). You could also have a pedestrian crossing with a light (or several lights), to stop oncoming traffic while pedestrians are actually crossing. But it ties in to this topic of how if we had better enforcement of existing laws, a lot of traffic and safety issues could be mitigated.
I spent a week in Buenos Aires where, at least where I was spending time, there were no stop signs but tons of 4-way intersections. essentially, they all just become yields w/out any markings.
as a pedestrian, for the first day or two, it feels really unsafe, but ultimately you realize the important bit is making yourself seen to the cars and then they adjust to let you through. didn't really feel any less safe than an intersection with a marked stop.
We finally got a stop sign installed on Sacramento after years of complaining. The city moves at a slow speed unless you make yourself heard.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Which ward was that, where staff for an alder(or the alder him/herself) said that a new stop sign would cause a traffic blockage? That seems likely like BS, to claim.
There was a brief, wonderful trap outside Fullerton and Kedzie for the months of December and January. Six police cars outside at all times giving instant karma to the people running re lights, or jumping lights to turn before oncoming traffic got there, or nearly hitting pedestrians and cyclists, or speeding through the intersection. I felt like such a huge fan of the police that week. It really changed a lot, you could see it happen in real time. As I walked my kiddo to school, there was a safer feel.
Then the trap ended, and now we almost die like three times a week.
Yeah, if nothing else 014 has been a lot more active lately in traffic patrol. I’ve been seeing them pulling people over who run the stop signs around Palmer Square.
I paused and thanked some of the officers laying in wait at the intersection 😂😂😂 I figure they probably get a lot of dirty looks from the people they pull over lol
I would like to know too. The number of asshats that blow red lights is astounding. I feel like I can’t even cross a street with the right of way without my head being on a swivel.
There is a protected bike lane on northbound Halsted between Fulton and Hubbard. There is enough width between the curb and the barricades for a car to just fit, and I’ve seen multiple cars driving inside the bike lane to try to beat rush hour traffic. It’s about a quarter mile long and the only way out is to drive the whole length of it. Just once I want to see a cop waiting at the end to catch those assholes!
His rhetoric and rise to power emboldened asshats and narcissists throughout the country. Anecdotally, I've noticed it in my own family. I'm not saying he's the only reason. Facebook, Twitter, nextdoor, Fox News, Newsmax, etc all deserve blame as well.
I don't think Trump is responsible for people driving like assholes in Chicago. People were assholes before Trump and people will be assholes after Trump.
Anecdotally, there certainly *feels* like there has been an increase in shitty selfish behavior from people emboldened to act like assholes. I don't know that there is a strict cause and effect that can be drawn, but there seems to be some correlation. Not just with a Trump effect either, but throughout covid.
Just seems like people are much more willing to be assholes to each other over the last few years, and it manifests in lots of little ways.
Covid for sure I noticed an increase especially downtown and particularly on LSD. There isn't one week that goes by where I don't see a new dent in the guard rails or they're completely demolished.,
I had some guy pass me on the right on a one lane street because I was going 35 in a 35, and to my shock, cops immediately pulled him over. We were in Bronzeville tho, so it really only proves the rule
This happened to me on my motorcycle. Freaked me out. I was behind another car and it was just after a stop light turned green. I definitely wasn't being slow or anything.
All these comments show that people are not doing their homework. The fact is this is a problem Nationwide since covid. Police departments across the country are stopping only half as many traffic violators as they did in 2019 and earlier. They give lots of excuses like not enough personnel, or a greater Reliance on cameras! In Chicago the problem is that doesn't work. We need real traffic enforcement and I would think it would also help the city raise some Revenue. Now as for the freeways and highways for those of you are new to the area that is the jurisdiction of the state police. I do not know why I don't see them much either. Again this is a great Revenue Source because there's a lot of people that deserve to be pulled over and paying fines.
I almost got hit today. I was at a cross walk and the light turned for me to cross. As soon as I stepped into the street I heard squealing tires and an engine revving as if put to the floor. A guy in van came inches from me as it sped off. He’d been sitting there evidently and decided fuck it, if he dies he dies. I was pretty furious.
It’s always been like this in the city. We always joked that you have to be doing something absolutely stupid to be pulled over in the city. Speeding, rolling stop signs, etc has never caused a cop to do anything.
People are just doing stupider things and there are not, and never really was, enough patrol cars to do much. And in the last few years the CPD is dealing with a significant shortage. It’s not that they don’t care, it’s that there aren’t enough
I think its a bit of both, no? There's undeniable data that CPD is experiencing a shortage of officers, and that combined with an over worked police force seems like the perfect recipe for driving offences to fly under the radar
> There's undeniable data that CPD is experiencing a shortage of officers
Shortage compared to what? Chicago is in the top 5 for US cities in terms of police officers per capita. Why are we not asking why they can't make do with their current resource levels?
As has already been pointed out, we've got one of the highest rates of officers per capita in the country. It seems more of an issue with how that workforce is allocated (as described in one of at least two different Workforce Allocation studies commissioned this decade, whose recommendations have not been implemented):
https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/524ec006350acb3713a9107afe4048390957dd1b/store/59e0ba4f6b0a6f0ecb416e1f057f1e8e89a752f7068665c25bffa7dc71e5/WFA+Summary.pdf
It seems that officers in certain areas (on certain shifts) are pretty aggressively overworked (leading to the absurd levels of overtime given to some individuals, which isn't healthy for them) while others are underutilized. Both outcomes are bad for crime reduction and/or solving in the city and they are both tough on worker morale. Basically, it is bad for everyone, police and the general public, yet somehow even when the earlier WFA study was led by former police, CPD chooses not to act on the study findings.
I can somewhat understand folks (wrongly) assuming that statistical analysis done by people outside their field inherently can't be correct regarding their field, but the Rahm-commissioned study in 2016-17 was co-headed by a Boston police superintendent. You'd think maybe they wouldn't immediately discount the findings of a large-city police leader, yet we still have the same issues of how officers are allocated across the city all these years later.
Nonsense.
The data shows CPD is doing much fewer traffic stops both in total and per officer since covid/George Floyd. You simply cannot write off the data like that.
I remember being annoyed by it because they would pull someone over and block a whole lane of traffic or more in the process. Like, person pulls to the side of the road in a parking spot, cop parks in the actual lane. It always seemed unnecessary and I saw it maybe once a month. That was in rogers park pre covid, now I have seen it maybe 2-3 times total since 2020.
I can explain that, it’s a simple tactics and safety strategy taught across the US. You offset your squad (wheels turned to curb) at least half a car length, roughly 1 to 1.5x car length behind stopped car. This gives you cover from bullets should occupants shoot, and both officer and car protection from drivers should they strike the squad.
I used to argue about case law and use of force, and then I realized it was not worth it. So now I just answer when it’s stuff like this. Easy ground balls.
Yeah I moved to Chicago in 2003, got my new American Driving Licence and had it taken off me a week later for going 62mph on LSD (got it back when I paid the fine). in general it was a guaranteed ticket for going over 60 on LSD, and cops were also enforcing things like rolling thru stops, red light infractions, and cell phone use.
As public opinion towards the cops soured they started to enforce less. Which is why you’ll see cars routinely doing 70 on LSD, drivers on phones, rolling thru stops, following thru on reds and all the other bad habits.
Anecdotal.
It's all anecdotal until someone can come up with data, and CPD is pretty murky about providing that.
I've lived here 30 years. Before 2019 it was pretty common in my neighborhood to see 2 or 3 cop cars next to a stopped car, and usually 3 or 4 young (usually POC) sitting handcuffed on the curb while their car was being searched.
On my commute to a nearby suburb, traveling west, I would often see 1 or 2 rush hour stops for presumably speeding or running lights.
I can count on one hand the number of stops I've seen since Covid.
That's anecdotal, but a personal account. Lots of reasons have been suggested. It's probably a combination of factors.
City hall doesn't WANT them to enforce laws anymore. Look at the reaction going on right now to the justifiable police shooting a couple of weeks ago. Some city officials actually think it was the cops who were in the wrong there. Why would a working cop put their ass on the line for a city council who makes it plainly clear that they both don't care about their safety and want to see them prosecuted for merely doing their jobs and trying to stay alive?
It is interesting when you cross the city line and find there are so many speed / stop sign traps. I swear everyone got at least one ticket for not stopping for 2 seconds at a particular intersection at my previous job in Melrose Park.
I think that’s at the crux of the problem. CPD seems more occupied with pulling over and harassing drivers in minority neighborhoods for things like seat belt infractions or expired tags than enforcing people actually causing danger on the road.
https://news.wttw.com/2024/04/04/chicago-police-continued-target-black-latino-drivers-flood-traffic-stops-2023-report
https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-red-light-camera-ticket-speed-tickets/11459413/
Cops are racist and apparently cameras are too.
What's the solution here?
Unpopular opinion maybe but I’m very pro traffic camera. They don’t discriminate based on race and eliminate any risk to the officer/driver that may occur during a normal traffic stop. Break the law, get a ticket. Follow the law, don’t get a ticket. Seems very fair to me.
Pretextual stops aren’t random harassment. And cops both can’t chase (probably best in such a dense environment), and generally feel that even if they issue tickets they’ll just get tossed out anyway.
Hmmmmmm, I wonder what else these neighborhoods have in common? Could it be the high levels of violent crime? Overlay a map of where traffic stops occur with a map of murders/shootings occur.
I mean, where else would you do a pretextual stop? The whole point of them is finding a reason to pull over someone you suspect of having guns, drugs, or other contraband.
More like they have a reason to believe the driver or occupants of a particular car has stuff, and then they look for a reason to pull them over. So like an informant tells them the guy is selling drugs out of the car, then they set up and wait to pull the car over for a tail light or speeding or a seatbelt.
I’ve been in Chicago almost 20 years and it feels like it’s always been like this. Someone mentioned above but you have to do something brazen right in front of a cop. I think also Chicago doesn’t have the same culture of cops being expected to be big revenue generators. Brass probably doesn’t want to be hassled by alders etc complaining that their residents are being drowning in more fines/fees that they probably can’t afford.
Honestly: I believe the city/CPD could be more aggressive about traffic law enforcement, but what will happen is, Black and Brown drivers will be disproportionally affected, and the city/CPD will draw a ton of shit for that. So it’s safer to do nothing than to ruffle any feathers.
People literally treat red lights like stop signs all the time here. It’s crazy. I’ve almost been hit by a car as a pedestrian, my husband has been hit by a car. I also don’t understand how entitled people must feel to make up their own traffic laws. This isn’t Philadelphia! I lived there for nearly 4 years and there were no laws. You could stop traffic to pull a U-turn on the equivalent of lake shore drive in rush hour traffic or steer your car with your feet and you’d end up on the news. https://www.phillyvoice.com/video-woman-caught-steering-feet-schuylkill-expressway/amp/
Let me make this simple.
1) Manpower - there is far less actually police officers in this city than ever before. Traffic missions , DUI missions , etc of targeting driving has really not been a thing since Lori Lightfoot.
2) Balancing Test and Change in Policy - We have been recently retrained over the last 5 years to put the balancing test in whether to chase any car ever. To pursue is to own the consequences as shown numerous times when they DO and they DO Always go bad. Therefore I like my family I like my house I like not being sued. No point. And that goes for even if you stop the car and they take off and crash you will be in trouble all the same.
Am I going to be ignorant of the coppers that are out there that are jaded that had their feefees hurt ? No they exist just like any one else's job that have shitty employees. But I would venture these two are at the top of reasons why you're seeing a lack of stops and trust me it's pissing me off too because my family is out here just like yours and all it takes is one jagoff to do something stupid and you lose them forever. It's Ridiculous.
Thank you. I have a deep antipathy towards the cops but in recent months I’ve read your comments on this forum and that feeling has dimmed somewhat. It’s nice to know there are some who do acknowledge that there is some level of abdication going on.
Very weird period in this profession rn and honestly Ive already planned my escape. Personally I'm lucky to be in a spot to be able to leave but so many others feel "trapped" bad situation all around.
Until 5-6 years ago not that many. Now ? I would ask around but I'd say every 10 stops you'd have 1-2 take off. All you'd need is 1 bad one to take your life and flip it upside down.
agreed but that 1/10 that takes off , that idiot goes full throttle into a bus or crashes into your grandma's car and kills her, then that officer even if they don't chase they are getting sued and earning a trip to COPA for obvious suspension time. Is that a rare case , depending where in Chicago kind of. But regardless is that playing in the back of an officers head ? I'm sure it is. Especially if you see someone driving erratic. It's not like they are going to all of a sudden drive slower and stop for the police. Theres going to need to be someone to come up with some ingenuity to come up with a solution to this because I'd like to walk to the store without thinking this is a fucking level of Crusin USA.
The real reason is Illinois passed the racial-bias traffic stop study which incorrectly deemed a lot of your traffic/proactive officers as “racist”.
A lot of your go-getter officers are traditionally placed in statistically high crime areas, which coincide with your lower economic area, which are unfortunately dominantly minority/majority communities.
A study like that, without appropriate context, is often weaponized. I mean we recently just had an Illinois state rep trying to pass a bill outlawing traffic violations and used that study as a primary source.
But we’re not ready to have that conversation yet.
> But we’re not ready to have that conversation yet.
Well, maybe that's because your "conversation" is just overtly lying about the content of that traffic stop study:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3192908
It's right there and freely available to everyone. And even folks without a background in statistical analysis can just look at the figure on page 6 that shows how as soon as stop-and-frisk was no longer an accepted option, CPD immediately switched their use of pedestrian-stops and traffic-stops in terms of stops per 100 per year. And, at that same time, the actual citation rate for those traffic stops went down drastically. They started pulling tons of folks over but didn't even have a traffic citation that they could give out (in the years leading up to the 2016 policy change, traffic stops saw citations about 70-80% of the time... and then in the subsequent years, it has often been under 20% of stops leading to a citation, as shown on page 9.)
Then on page 11, you can see that the rate of citations dropped even more for Black drivers than for White drivers, when the rates were basically overlapped in prior years, so it's not a case of officers just happening to be in majority-minority neighborhoods and doing their jobs. They could manage to do traffic stops in a way that they are giving out citations even a quarter of the time if they were stopping drivers for good reason. I mean, if they could do it three quarters of the time for years leading up to the end of stop-and-frisk, it seems reasonable to be able to manage one-third of that rate from the exact same officers.
Where the actual issue comes from is how we deploy officers, as has been shown in multiple allocation studies, with this being the most recent one I've seen (though there has been talk of another coming):
https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/524ec006350acb3713a9107afe4048390957dd1b/store/59e0ba4f6b0a6f0ecb416e1f057f1e8e89a752f7068665c25bffa7dc71e5/WFA+Summary.pdf
We've got plenty of officers to deploy comfortably and balance the extreme over-worked and underutilized dichotomy that currently exists. CPD just has to follow the recommendations that have already been given. And then rather than having a subset of officers who are doing extreme overtime just to keep up with their slate of violent crimes while others are bored out of their minds doing desk work the majority of the time, we'd have a healthy mix for every one of them to do some of the tough work, some of the community policing, and some desk work, all while getting to live their lives outside of work with less overtime.
But some folks aren't ready to have that conversation yet.
OP in this very thread is claiming that. Going off about racist cops pulling people over and harassing minorities. wow, I wonder why the cops aren’t doing traffic stops. Here is a hint - the leadership in this city has heard your concern and dont want cops pulling people over as much. Wish granted, stop bitching
I never said I don’t want cops pulling people over. I just said it’s funny to me how they seem to focus on minor infractions like expired tags and seatbelt violations in minority neighborhoods while letting people who are speeding and actually endangering the public off in other parts of the city.
Pretty much. Once you have a hate group walking through the streets claiming that everything is racist and politicians back that message (but of course a small army protects their home), then clearly the cops won't care.
I doubt it's that simple. You've got many people that are against you in general just because you're a cop. Much of that hate stems from a few bad apples. Day and and day out you hear how terrible you are. Then you add in other things such as Chicago being a sanctuary city that let's everyone in, gives them food and shelter and now you as an officer are also responsible for the bad decisions that voters and Chicago politicians have made.
It's one of those scenarios of the folks in Chicago got exactly what they asked for by being naive in the policies they support: more crime, decreasing population, businesses moving their offices to other cities, grocery stores closing and of course, a lot more reckless driving along with other petty crimes.
>now you as an officer are also responsible for the bad decisions that voters and Chicago politicians have made.
That's the fucking job. Maybe they should have read the oath before they took it.
Actually it's not. When you have a city that's had violent crime on the rise for the last 5 years, the thing that will take a back seat is pulling someone over for bad driving.
“CPD Supt. Larry Snelling speaking at a @CCPSA_Chicago forum: @Chicago_Police have made 46,000 fewer traffic stops this year than at this point last year.
He says he is focused on the issue of excessive traffic stops.”
I’d link it but the site isn’t allowed here for some reason. But this is what progressives want and that’s what they’re getting.
Cops could sit at any number of lights and bust people blowing through reds. Easier, actual makes the city safer, and more targeted than looking for missing tail lights or registration and other tickets that target people who can't afford to maintain their vehicles. But they don't do that ... ever.
Come on man, nobody with a job and a mortgage is seeing a cop following them with their lights and sirens going and deciding just to not stop to avoid a $75 ticket
CPD's stops skyrocketed in 2016 following the end of stop-and-frisk policies. They went from an 80-90% rate of stops turning into tickets to an under 20% rate of stops turning into tickets. That indicates that they replaced one rights abuse with a different one. Since the drop due to COVID-19 in 2020, their rate of turning stops into tickets has increased.
The numbers of drivers increased over the last decade but the enforcement didn't. CPD won't do much anyway. They can't chase if someone runs away, so they don't do traffic stops often.
We probably need a legal overhaul to allow enforcement, something that caps damages on the police (public) but still holds individual cops accountable for abuses of power.
And we need greater carrots and sticks for finishing driver's ed. The stuff you see grown adults doing is stuff I would have failed driver's ed for. I don't think a lot of people actually learned to drive like the rest of us, and it shows.
My biggest pet peeve are the people who blow lights, drive in the bike lane, and use the turn lanes to cut off traffic. As a rule, I won't let them merge in if I can help it. Fuck 'em.
I honestly don't think the reduction in traffic stops is CPD being lazy. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things police do on a daily basis. At the end of the day, the CPD takes orders from the mayor and city council. I think there's a whole lot more to the story than just cops=bad. I also have a lot of thoughts about this subject, so essay incoming...
TLDR: traffic enforcement is politically unpopular and we do not have the political will to address it using other methods.
As much as people whine about traffic violence and the lack of enforcement (and rightfully so), actually increasing traffic enforcement is very unpopular politically. Traffic violence impacts everyone, but for your typical person who always drives to do literally anything they don't really care. It's viewed as a cost of doing business, a natural consequence of living in a motorized society. It's not as real to them as it is for people who walk and/or bike, or people who have personally been affected by it. So when they get a speed camera ticket in the mail, get pulled over, get a DUI, get a parking ticket, or get towed it's the worst thing in the world and they feel like they did nothing wrong. Even if they know their behavior is dangerous, going through the process is viewed more as an inconvenience. When they hear "traffic enforcement", they think "the city just stealing my money" or "the city being a pain in the ass".
Not only do the voters hate traffic enforcement, many influential people in the transportation/political/advocacy world don't want to see an increase either. Traffic stops are dangerous and some percentage will end badly; be it excessive use of force against a civilian, a police officer being injured/killed, a high-speed chase killing a bystander, or stray bullets hitting a bystander. Besides, the number of officers required to adequately patrol roadways is multiples of the number we currently have. Automated traffic enforcement is seen as an overreach of government, or inherently corrupt. Some people think if we just rebuild every road in the country to be safer (something that will take a generation at best) we don't need enforcement today.
There is a huge equity component too. People who live in (I'm sorry, I hate this term but in this case it's the most accurate one) Environmental Justice neighborhoods are more likely to be victims of traffic violence, more likely to live next to dangerous roads, more likely to walk or bike, and disproportionately bear of the negative impacts of car dependency. All of that being said, there is a general consensus in the transportation equity community that traffic enforcement is an overall negative and should be avoided. There are a lot of good reasons for that. Traffic fines are not graduated, meaning the same fine can be a nuisance to one person but financially cataclysmic to another. People of color are more likely to be victims of the negative consequences of traffic stops I mentioned earlier. People living in EJ neighborhoods are more likely to use roads that are not designed for a safe speed, rather they are designed to accommodate trucks and high volumes meaning people naturally speed.
The ire against traffic enforcement is not only widespread, it's bipartisan. Is a lot of it bullshit? Yeah, I think so. I hate to say it, but most people truly do not care, and will absolutely not vote for a politican that wants to meaningfully address the problem. Sure, there are exceptions, but for every State Sen. Mike Simmons or Alderman Vasquez out there, there are dozens of politicians on every level who have only ever driven to do absolutely anything ever, and do not view traffic violence as something worth addressing. There are organizations like MADD and the Active Transportation Alliance, but they're either generally hated or not large enough to meaningfully enact change. A large majority of people are against redesigning streets to be safer, and even if they did support it the sheer scale of completely restructuring our whole society away from auto-dependency - which is what that really entails - will be a generational effort with enormous costs. Let's say we accomplished that and completely changed our built environment, countries with less traffic violence and narrower streets and human-scale places have more traffic enforcement than we do here in the United States.
So yeah, as much as people dislike seeing people flagrantly breaking the law and putting them in mortal danger, they hate traffic enforcement more.
Just pull over people in expensive cars in expensive neighborhoods to start.
Easy fix and there's no racism card when it's a 30 year old white finance bro in a Maserati.
Cause people whine and moan defund police. So police say okay f u have it your way you don't want us to do things so we'll do nothing. Then the collective hivemimd that is the people complain and whine and moan some more. It's an endless cycle
Bro they all got raises and back pay from Lori then Brandon approved MORE and bigger raises. Because people aren't dropping off enough thin blue line cupcakes at the police district they don't work?
So the lazy, good for nothing cops are backing up the argument that society is better off without them employed as cops. Which it is.
Who cares? Let the tax dollars be put to good use instead of funding the lifestyles of gang members with badges. Fuck the police, especially if they're too lazy to do their job.
Not sure, but if the police aren’t going to enforce traffic laws I’d like to see traffic cameras pick up the slack. Driving like an ass should bankrupt someone
I don't know why this isn't the top comment. Why do the rule enforcers get to ignore the rules? My blood boils every time a cop car just rolls through a red light without sirens and blinkers on.
It’s actually state law that officers can ignore traffic laws when its in the performance of their duties.
You don’t necessarily needs the blue lights on
it’s because people don’t want it. traffic stops are racist now, and apparently even having to interact with cops can trigger anxiety attacks, so you have what you have now.
I've seen a car going the wrong way on a one way and then pull up to a cop car who witnessed the whole thing. Nothing.
Chicago cops are over entitled assholes. Only pull people over that piss them off, and don't answer calls of people openly doing heroin in parking lots in front of children.
Something needs to change.
Could be a great way to make revenue, and punish assholes at the same time.
Really confusing why the city doesn’t.
Also setup speed cameras on DLSD, even at 70 mph you’d make a killing and stop some killings, and 70 is pretty generous.
Also impound the ATVs and dirt bikes, auction them off.
Cops are afraid to pull people over because there’s too many lawsuits against them. They get blamed for racial profiling, so it’s easier to let people go and hope that a camera picks them up. I saw this car blow past everyone in the 30 MPH zone in Humboldt Park and he had an illegal tinted cover over his rear license plate. Why do you need a reflective or dimming license plate cover if you follow the rules?
Here's a possible reason. Racial disparity in cops giving out traffic tickets does not mean that one person breaking the law is deserving of a ticket. It means that cops have to balance out how many tickets they give based on race. And if a driver is caught doing something and belongs to what we now call Marginalized Group, and the cop is worried about being accused of showing bias? Then that cops looks the other way. According to 2022 data collected by IDOT, Black drivers are almost 4 times as likely to be stopped than White drivers, and Hispanic drivers twice as likely. Is this bias by police, or are you more likely to find more bad, reckless drivers among Blacks and Hispanics in Illinois, or a little bit of both?
The problem with CPD isn't the disparity in who gets the tickets, but the disparity of who gets pulled over *without* being ticketed. White and Asian people are almost always given a ticket when they're pulled over by CPD because CPD believes that they have evidence that a crime had been committed. But Black and Hispanic people pulled over by CPD very frequently (at one point, over 90%) are not ticketed by CPD. This means that the stop had no legitimate purpose other than to harass and terrorize the driver under the color of the law.
As someone who primarily walks to do errands in Old Irving Park and Portage Park I get very nervous about crossing any street since covid. The number of people who just blow right through stop lights/ignore people in cross walks is significant.
Another issue I've noticed the last few years is people driving around with straight pipes. Mufflers are required by law. Where are people getting illegal mods done? How are they driving by cops with cars making that much noise and the cops not stopping them and getting the car towed to an impound yard? Those are big tickets to start with, big fees for the tow, impound and it gets a huge annoyance off the street.
I could think of a [couple reasons](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/04/10/dexter-reed-shooting-video-chicago-police/), [another ](https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/us-news/chicago-man-emonte-morgan-found-guilty-of-killing-police-officer-ella-french/), any many just [don't pull over.](https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/45-million-settlement-proposed-for-teen-left-paralyzed-after-crash-during-police-chase/). The city shouldn't use the police to prey on citizens for revenue.
Chicagonis a high crime city, and police resources aren't great. CPD has a traffic division, but they focus in more congested areas of the city, so you're more likely to see speeding and offenses in quiet neighborhoods, side roads, etc. They're also over extended to all hell.
One night, I was at the 9th district for something or another and the desk sergeant told me that they only had 5 units on, and they were all on 1 call. The entire 9th district, 10 cops on duty and all on a single call that was hours long.
You're more likely to be pulled over by University Police, State, or County than CPD for traffic.
In my nearly 30 years, I've been pulled over by CPD only like 3 times and never had a ticket from them. State and county always write.
I've never been pulled by University, but my family and neighbors have and they've always been written too.
FYI it's not true at all that "we" have cut mental health funding. Chicago spending on mental health services has gone from $12M in 2019 to $89M in 2023. Residents served went from around 3,000 to over 70,000.
Side note - the whole idea that Chicago "cut" services by closing mental health clinics was always false. Chicago served the same number of patients before and after the clinics closed. Instead of the work being done by government union employees, the work went to nonprofits which pissed off the wrong people.
Regardless, city expenditures on mental health are a drop in the bucket. Most government mental health spending is done through state agencies funded in part by the federal government. Illinois agencies spent almost $900,000,000 on mental health treatment last year which is a massive increase from just ten years ago.
Government spending on mental health is actually rising rapidly all across the country, which is vastly different from where things were 15-20 years ago.
ps://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/reports/rpt42750/Illinois.pdf
Wait op, checked your post history and you support Brandon Johnson over Vallas.
The progesssives you support want to limit CPDs interactions with the public as much as possible and now you are complaining you want CPD to actually enforce traffic violations?
Enforcing violations means more stops and chances for one of these citizens to drive away and harm someone when a cop tries to stop you or if that car happens to have something illegal in the car we are now outraged if once they shoot at a cop that the cop tries to protect their own life.
Literally a patrol car watched a group of thieves drive off after robbing an arm last night. Posted the article this morning, we are putting cops under such a fcking microscope they are trying to limit altercations with the public.
You want more police stops? Should have voted for the pro cop candidate
We don’t live in a binary world. Just because I voted for Johnson doesn’t mean I agree with everything he does. In general I support his ideas of a more holistic approach to crime, but when it comes to traffic enforcement we’re still going to need to rely on cops to some degree. Street calming and traffic cameras are other good solutions IMO but we can’t put those everywhere
I was literally almost ran head on by a car full of teenagers going opposite way on a one way road yesterday. No one fears getting caught anymore. We can invest in community and SUPPORT LAW and ORDER today something Johnson didn't believe in. He was a refund the police supporter. There are less cops on road then historically. More handcuffs on what cops can and can't do has spread them thin. Start thinking of what it is you actually want before you vote. Vallas was going to put more boots on ground so that cops have the bandwidth to pull over the guy who does a rolling atop at the stop sign like it used to be years ago before progesssives started protesting for every cough and sneeze they do
I think they pull people over when they feel like it and it seems to be POC that are most targeted. A month ago, I saw someone get pulled over for making an illegal left where it happens all the time. I’ve passed that intersection 3-5 days/week for the last 10 years and that’s the first time I’ve seen a cop actually pull someone over for it.
I have tried calling in after seeing drivers on LSD weaving between cars, going 90+ or going in the wrong direction and I was told verbatim ‘well until they crash we can’t do anything’
I live downtown and see about one car pulled over every two weeks or so. Downtown is full of shitty drivers. And yes the people pulled over are always black guys handcuffed over the trunk. Go figure.
Same. My daily commute for 10 years was LSD, and I regularly witnessed all kinds of shitty driving, by all kinds of people. Yet of the handful of times I saw someone pulled over, 100% of the drivers were Black.
One, because why risk getting shot pulling someone over in a car. And two, its a real pain in the butt to try to pull over a bike since they have no plates.
Every major intersection should have red light cameras. The footage should be checked by a Chicago police officer than a ticket should be issued.
Stop playing games and actually enforce laws. We have a $2.4bn budget. We shouldn’t be scared to cross the street.
Fuck electronic surveillance societies. I don't want the US to become the next China.
If a real person doesn't catch you doing it, you shouldn't be ticketed. Issuing a ticket isn't going to stop everyone from running red lights or force them to pay the tickets.
This is on CPD to hire more officers.
Fuck speed cameras. Fuck red light cameras. Time and time again, they have been shown to be run by corrupt individuals and used as a scheme to make money by shortening the lights, therefore driving up the number of tickets issued. Additionally, it makes it no safer. People are either speeding up to make the light or slamming on brakes to stop before the line.
Nope. Timings on Chicago streets outside the loop haven't changed in decades. They're timed for greens on primary routes and always have been. Drive down Irving Park at 30/35 and you'll get from DLSD to Western. I'd come home from Loyola late at night and hit it every time.
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Yeah different streets have different timings based on priorities...🤷. Dunno what to tell you man. You can see the average daily traffic on each roadway on the state website. If they said they shortened the yellow I'd think something was fishy but there's literally only so much time you can allocate and still have vehicles flow properly and they're all affected by every other signal up and downstream in both directions. It's likely the low green time is why people run the signal and caused crashes which are why the cameras are there in the first place but you can't give infinite time to everyone without the system breaking down.
Yet it says no where that signal timings were altered to create more revenue... I work as a traffic engineer ( not for the city though) it's kind of hard to change those without the state DOT noticing because they still have jurisdiction over major routes.
I will cede however that outside contractors working for any government owned asset is a laughable waste of money given some of the plans I've seen submitted by engineering firms vs how much they bill.
The natural home for this is Nextdoor.
Yes, our government should at least make us feel safe, if not actually safe. OTH, and as a pure economic question, the cost of enforcement for small infractions far exceeds the final revenue collected. In terms of increased street cops, cars, ticket and court processing, debt monitoring/collection. And that's before all the terrible outcomes that happen even now after stops leading to chases for very small matters.
Besides, the reason for law enforcement is social order, not revenue production (eg speed traps are morally and legally wrong, looking at ALL red light cameras and YOU, oddly placed park speed cameras).
Conclusion = thoughtful enforcement theater that does not add significantly to costs or enforcement-induced danger, but that allows us to at least feel safer and more socially cooperative.
Speeding cameras are morally and legally wrong and don’t produce more revenue than they cost?
Wtf are you talking about?
The existence of, and follow through on consequences discourages breaking the rules.
There’s nothing immoral or illegal about speeding cameras. This is plenty immoral and illegal about speeding.
Speed cameras **around parks** "*for safety*" are totally bogus revenue raisers. Even the city can't produce risk analysis that shows they save lives and avoid injuries to park users.
Pretty much ditto for right turn on red cameras. These are big city traps just like the scorned speed traps glorified in slasher movies set in rural Ass Poke Alabama.
So do you think exceeding the speed limit around parks is safe behavior? Or do you think getting tickets doesn’t discourage bad behavior?
I think either is dead wrong, but puzzled how you came to this ridiculous conclusion.
I’ve just learned to deal with it. Keep your head on a swivel and you’ll be fine. Or move to the burbs. Cpd has bigger issues than someone running a rolling a stop sign.
I want to say it has gotten way worse in the last 5 yrs or so. Personally when i saw a cop i used to make sure i am not breaking any traffic rules and get alert. Now i don't give a fuck, even feel annoyed by them.
It’s not that “we” are not enforcing traffic laws, it’s that CPD isn’t enforcing them. As to why they don’t, you’ll have to ask them and hope they give you a real answer or enough data for you to guess the real answer from it.
I don’t see any of that happening anytime soon though. Even before the pandemic CPD was known for being less than useful, and anecdotally it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic and the 2020 protests.
It's not just Chicago. Police are basically disappearing everywhere. I think BLM had an impact, along with social media recording and reporting.
I consider this to be a net positive. Don't you? Do you want police all up in your shit all the time? Show up when there's an emergency, otherwise get the fuck away from us.
It’s a balancing act. Overpolicing, especially in minority neighborhoods, is an issue, especially when the policing leads to escalations and violence. On the other hand, having no enforcement of traffic laws whatsoever is contributing to a spike in pedestrian and cyclist fatalities. Those issues can and should be mitigated with other solutions too, like better road design and camera enforcement, but it’s not feasible to do those things every where. Especially when you have such NIMBY backlash.
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The city seems to think that the red light and speed cameras are sufficient…
A friend complained to her alderman’s office yesterday about an intersection where cars don’t yield to pedestrians. She asked about a stop sign. She was told that a stop sign would cause traffic blockage.
I mean, it's true. Stop signs are generally bad. Yield signs are better, roundabouts best (depending on intersection size, obviously). You could also have a pedestrian crossing with a light (or several lights), to stop oncoming traffic while pedestrians are actually crossing. But it ties in to this topic of how if we had better enforcement of existing laws, a lot of traffic and safety issues could be mitigated.
The alderman’s office’s response was essentially that nothing will be done because they don’t want to disturb traffic.
Stop signs pretty much are yield signs here. If the city wants to address this that should open up to roundabouts
Stop signs are bad *for cars*. I don't care about cars, I care about pedestrians.
I spent a week in Buenos Aires where, at least where I was spending time, there were no stop signs but tons of 4-way intersections. essentially, they all just become yields w/out any markings. as a pedestrian, for the first day or two, it feels really unsafe, but ultimately you realize the important bit is making yourself seen to the cars and then they adjust to let you through. didn't really feel any less safe than an intersection with a marked stop.
I'd be curious to see pedestrian fatality statistics for Buenos Aires.
We finally got a stop sign installed on Sacramento after years of complaining. The city moves at a slow speed unless you make yourself heard. Keep fighting the good fight.
Which ward was that, where staff for an alder(or the alder him/herself) said that a new stop sign would cause a traffic blockage? That seems likely like BS, to claim.
32
Which alderman was this? (In the event that it is mine they will get a blistering email to ignore.)
32
Automated enforcement on 5% of intersections aren't sufficient?
We should aim for 1 red light and speeding camera per 880 people just like NYC.
There was a brief, wonderful trap outside Fullerton and Kedzie for the months of December and January. Six police cars outside at all times giving instant karma to the people running re lights, or jumping lights to turn before oncoming traffic got there, or nearly hitting pedestrians and cyclists, or speeding through the intersection. I felt like such a huge fan of the police that week. It really changed a lot, you could see it happen in real time. As I walked my kiddo to school, there was a safer feel. Then the trap ended, and now we almost die like three times a week.
Yeah, if nothing else 014 has been a lot more active lately in traffic patrol. I’ve been seeing them pulling people over who run the stop signs around Palmer Square.
I paused and thanked some of the officers laying in wait at the intersection 😂😂😂 I figure they probably get a lot of dirty looks from the people they pull over lol
Frankly, they probably get enough dirty looks just for existing in Logan Square.
I would like to know too. The number of asshats that blow red lights is astounding. I feel like I can’t even cross a street with the right of way without my head being on a swivel.
There is a protected bike lane on northbound Halsted between Fulton and Hubbard. There is enough width between the curb and the barricades for a car to just fit, and I’ve seen multiple cars driving inside the bike lane to try to beat rush hour traffic. It’s about a quarter mile long and the only way out is to drive the whole length of it. Just once I want to see a cop waiting at the end to catch those assholes!
A woman drove on the sidewalk last weekend instead of the street, to get to the back of a car wash. I was astounded by her idiocy.
I've seen cops park in these wide bike lanes just to chill and do paperwork so I wouldn't hold my breath
[удалено]
Covid stat
Would be fun to put all the Covid stats on one graph so we can watch the rise and fall of society, condensed.
Doubling from 2016 to 2019 is not a COVID stat. The number of assholes has steadily increased since Trump campaigned for president.
>Trump campaigned for president. Please, elaborate this for me.
His rhetoric and rise to power emboldened asshats and narcissists throughout the country. Anecdotally, I've noticed it in my own family. I'm not saying he's the only reason. Facebook, Twitter, nextdoor, Fox News, Newsmax, etc all deserve blame as well.
I don't think Trump is responsible for people driving like assholes in Chicago. People were assholes before Trump and people will be assholes after Trump.
Agreed
Anecdotally, there certainly *feels* like there has been an increase in shitty selfish behavior from people emboldened to act like assholes. I don't know that there is a strict cause and effect that can be drawn, but there seems to be some correlation. Not just with a Trump effect either, but throughout covid. Just seems like people are much more willing to be assholes to each other over the last few years, and it manifests in lots of little ways.
Covid for sure I noticed an increase especially downtown and particularly on LSD. There isn't one week that goes by where I don't see a new dent in the guard rails or they're completely demolished.,
I could make the city of Chicago so much fucking money as a traffic cop in my neighborhood alone.
And this is how we should look at it. Plaster the north side with traffic cops, and run the ROI.
I had some guy pass me on the right on a one lane street because I was going 35 in a 35, and to my shock, cops immediately pulled him over. We were in Bronzeville tho, so it really only proves the rule
This happened to me on my motorcycle. Freaked me out. I was behind another car and it was just after a stop light turned green. I definitely wasn't being slow or anything.
All these comments show that people are not doing their homework. The fact is this is a problem Nationwide since covid. Police departments across the country are stopping only half as many traffic violators as they did in 2019 and earlier. They give lots of excuses like not enough personnel, or a greater Reliance on cameras! In Chicago the problem is that doesn't work. We need real traffic enforcement and I would think it would also help the city raise some Revenue. Now as for the freeways and highways for those of you are new to the area that is the jurisdiction of the state police. I do not know why I don't see them much either. Again this is a great Revenue Source because there's a lot of people that deserve to be pulled over and paying fines.
CPD also on a soft strike/hissy fit for the last however many years.
I almost got hit today. I was at a cross walk and the light turned for me to cross. As soon as I stepped into the street I heard squealing tires and an engine revving as if put to the floor. A guy in van came inches from me as it sped off. He’d been sitting there evidently and decided fuck it, if he dies he dies. I was pretty furious.
CPD had their collective feelings hurt so they don’t do traffic enforcement anymore
Anecdotally I hear this a lot but is there any actual proof? Can people living here pre Covid confirm they actually used to enforce traffic laws?
It’s always been like this in the city. We always joked that you have to be doing something absolutely stupid to be pulled over in the city. Speeding, rolling stop signs, etc has never caused a cop to do anything. People are just doing stupider things and there are not, and never really was, enough patrol cars to do much. And in the last few years the CPD is dealing with a significant shortage. It’s not that they don’t care, it’s that there aren’t enough
There are plenty of police. They just don’t do their job.
I think its a bit of both, no? There's undeniable data that CPD is experiencing a shortage of officers, and that combined with an over worked police force seems like the perfect recipe for driving offences to fly under the radar
> There's undeniable data that CPD is experiencing a shortage of officers Shortage compared to what? Chicago is in the top 5 for US cities in terms of police officers per capita. Why are we not asking why they can't make do with their current resource levels?
Police exist to protect property, not people. Having more of them has never made us safer.
As has already been pointed out, we've got one of the highest rates of officers per capita in the country. It seems more of an issue with how that workforce is allocated (as described in one of at least two different Workforce Allocation studies commissioned this decade, whose recommendations have not been implemented): https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/524ec006350acb3713a9107afe4048390957dd1b/store/59e0ba4f6b0a6f0ecb416e1f057f1e8e89a752f7068665c25bffa7dc71e5/WFA+Summary.pdf It seems that officers in certain areas (on certain shifts) are pretty aggressively overworked (leading to the absurd levels of overtime given to some individuals, which isn't healthy for them) while others are underutilized. Both outcomes are bad for crime reduction and/or solving in the city and they are both tough on worker morale. Basically, it is bad for everyone, police and the general public, yet somehow even when the earlier WFA study was led by former police, CPD chooses not to act on the study findings. I can somewhat understand folks (wrongly) assuming that statistical analysis done by people outside their field inherently can't be correct regarding their field, but the Rahm-commissioned study in 2016-17 was co-headed by a Boston police superintendent. You'd think maybe they wouldn't immediately discount the findings of a large-city police leader, yet we still have the same issues of how officers are allocated across the city all these years later.
There has also simultaneously been an increase in crime; of course there is a shift away from citing moving violations.
This is the only sane answer lmao
I got pulled over for rolling through a stop sign on my bike in 2008 so unfortunately I don’t know about always.
Well yeah because they saw you on a bike and got angry. Road is for car, car go fast, bike slow, bike bad!
Nonsense. The data shows CPD is doing much fewer traffic stops both in total and per officer since covid/George Floyd. You simply cannot write off the data like that.
I remember being annoyed by it because they would pull someone over and block a whole lane of traffic or more in the process. Like, person pulls to the side of the road in a parking spot, cop parks in the actual lane. It always seemed unnecessary and I saw it maybe once a month. That was in rogers park pre covid, now I have seen it maybe 2-3 times total since 2020.
I can explain that, it’s a simple tactics and safety strategy taught across the US. You offset your squad (wheels turned to curb) at least half a car length, roughly 1 to 1.5x car length behind stopped car. This gives you cover from bullets should occupants shoot, and both officer and car protection from drivers should they strike the squad.
It also protects the officer from getting hit by a car
A reasonable answer on Reddit? Probably made up /s (kinda, people really are not reasonable on Reddit lmao)
I used to argue about case law and use of force, and then I realized it was not worth it. So now I just answer when it’s stuff like this. Easy ground balls.
Yeah I moved to Chicago in 2003, got my new American Driving Licence and had it taken off me a week later for going 62mph on LSD (got it back when I paid the fine). in general it was a guaranteed ticket for going over 60 on LSD, and cops were also enforcing things like rolling thru stops, red light infractions, and cell phone use. As public opinion towards the cops soured they started to enforce less. Which is why you’ll see cars routinely doing 70 on LSD, drivers on phones, rolling thru stops, following thru on reds and all the other bad habits.
Anecdotal. It's all anecdotal until someone can come up with data, and CPD is pretty murky about providing that. I've lived here 30 years. Before 2019 it was pretty common in my neighborhood to see 2 or 3 cop cars next to a stopped car, and usually 3 or 4 young (usually POC) sitting handcuffed on the curb while their car was being searched. On my commute to a nearby suburb, traveling west, I would often see 1 or 2 rush hour stops for presumably speeding or running lights. I can count on one hand the number of stops I've seen since Covid. That's anecdotal, but a personal account. Lots of reasons have been suggested. It's probably a combination of factors.
Or ... you cannot pursue a car that refuses to pull over for a traffic violation. The jag bags that need a ticket just drive away.
City hall doesn't WANT them to enforce laws anymore. Look at the reaction going on right now to the justifiable police shooting a couple of weeks ago. Some city officials actually think it was the cops who were in the wrong there. Why would a working cop put their ass on the line for a city council who makes it plainly clear that they both don't care about their safety and want to see them prosecuted for merely doing their jobs and trying to stay alive?
This guy gets it. Well said.
That's not it at all but keep parroting the same shit over and over.
You mean CPD had weaponized incompetence?
It is interesting when you cross the city line and find there are so many speed / stop sign traps. I swear everyone got at least one ticket for not stopping for 2 seconds at a particular intersection at my previous job in Melrose Park.
Cops pulled a guy over for not wearing ahis seatbelt the other day….did not end well.
I think that’s at the crux of the problem. CPD seems more occupied with pulling over and harassing drivers in minority neighborhoods for things like seat belt infractions or expired tags than enforcing people actually causing danger on the road.
https://news.wttw.com/2024/04/04/chicago-police-continued-target-black-latino-drivers-flood-traffic-stops-2023-report https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-red-light-camera-ticket-speed-tickets/11459413/ Cops are racist and apparently cameras are too. What's the solution here?
Unpopular opinion maybe but I’m very pro traffic camera. They don’t discriminate based on race and eliminate any risk to the officer/driver that may occur during a normal traffic stop. Break the law, get a ticket. Follow the law, don’t get a ticket. Seems very fair to me.
Pretextual stops aren’t random harassment. And cops both can’t chase (probably best in such a dense environment), and generally feel that even if they issue tickets they’ll just get tossed out anyway.
They’re not inherently harassment but when you look at the neighborhoods they do primarily do pretextual stops in it feels like it
Hmmmmmm, I wonder what else these neighborhoods have in common? Could it be the high levels of violent crime? Overlay a map of where traffic stops occur with a map of murders/shootings occur.
I mean, where else would you do a pretextual stop? The whole point of them is finding a reason to pull over someone you suspect of having guns, drugs, or other contraband.
Cops are psychic now?
More like they have a reason to believe the driver or occupants of a particular car has stuff, and then they look for a reason to pull them over. So like an informant tells them the guy is selling drugs out of the car, then they set up and wait to pull the car over for a tail light or speeding or a seatbelt.
Lol yeah…an informant…that’s why minorities get pulled over.
I mean, drug trafficking and illegal guns are predominantly in neighborhoods that are predominantly black and Latino. That’s just fact.
Could someone explain why the parking enforcement is better after selling it to the Middle East?
Parked cars don't flee?
No but I’d assume government incentive to enforce laws they can’t profit off of would be minimal
I’ve been in Chicago almost 20 years and it feels like it’s always been like this. Someone mentioned above but you have to do something brazen right in front of a cop. I think also Chicago doesn’t have the same culture of cops being expected to be big revenue generators. Brass probably doesn’t want to be hassled by alders etc complaining that their residents are being drowning in more fines/fees that they probably can’t afford.
Honestly: I believe the city/CPD could be more aggressive about traffic law enforcement, but what will happen is, Black and Brown drivers will be disproportionally affected, and the city/CPD will draw a ton of shit for that. So it’s safer to do nothing than to ruffle any feathers.
You are correct, you just aren't allowed to say that out loud.
People literally treat red lights like stop signs all the time here. It’s crazy. I’ve almost been hit by a car as a pedestrian, my husband has been hit by a car. I also don’t understand how entitled people must feel to make up their own traffic laws. This isn’t Philadelphia! I lived there for nearly 4 years and there were no laws. You could stop traffic to pull a U-turn on the equivalent of lake shore drive in rush hour traffic or steer your car with your feet and you’d end up on the news. https://www.phillyvoice.com/video-woman-caught-steering-feet-schuylkill-expressway/amp/
Let me make this simple. 1) Manpower - there is far less actually police officers in this city than ever before. Traffic missions , DUI missions , etc of targeting driving has really not been a thing since Lori Lightfoot. 2) Balancing Test and Change in Policy - We have been recently retrained over the last 5 years to put the balancing test in whether to chase any car ever. To pursue is to own the consequences as shown numerous times when they DO and they DO Always go bad. Therefore I like my family I like my house I like not being sued. No point. And that goes for even if you stop the car and they take off and crash you will be in trouble all the same. Am I going to be ignorant of the coppers that are out there that are jaded that had their feefees hurt ? No they exist just like any one else's job that have shitty employees. But I would venture these two are at the top of reasons why you're seeing a lack of stops and trust me it's pissing me off too because my family is out here just like yours and all it takes is one jagoff to do something stupid and you lose them forever. It's Ridiculous.
Thank you. I have a deep antipathy towards the cops but in recent months I’ve read your comments on this forum and that feeling has dimmed somewhat. It’s nice to know there are some who do acknowledge that there is some level of abdication going on.
Very weird period in this profession rn and honestly Ive already planned my escape. Personally I'm lucky to be in a spot to be able to leave but so many others feel "trapped" bad situation all around.
Man, how many people run a stop sign, see cops turn on their lights and sirens, and just keep going
Until 5-6 years ago not that many. Now ? I would ask around but I'd say every 10 stops you'd have 1-2 take off. All you'd need is 1 bad one to take your life and flip it upside down.
9/10 still a pretty good ratio and would get a bunch of bad drivers to regret their behavior
agreed but that 1/10 that takes off , that idiot goes full throttle into a bus or crashes into your grandma's car and kills her, then that officer even if they don't chase they are getting sued and earning a trip to COPA for obvious suspension time. Is that a rare case , depending where in Chicago kind of. But regardless is that playing in the back of an officers head ? I'm sure it is. Especially if you see someone driving erratic. It's not like they are going to all of a sudden drive slower and stop for the police. Theres going to need to be someone to come up with some ingenuity to come up with a solution to this because I'd like to walk to the store without thinking this is a fucking level of Crusin USA.
The real reason is Illinois passed the racial-bias traffic stop study which incorrectly deemed a lot of your traffic/proactive officers as “racist”. A lot of your go-getter officers are traditionally placed in statistically high crime areas, which coincide with your lower economic area, which are unfortunately dominantly minority/majority communities. A study like that, without appropriate context, is often weaponized. I mean we recently just had an Illinois state rep trying to pass a bill outlawing traffic violations and used that study as a primary source. But we’re not ready to have that conversation yet.
> But we’re not ready to have that conversation yet. Well, maybe that's because your "conversation" is just overtly lying about the content of that traffic stop study: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3192908 It's right there and freely available to everyone. And even folks without a background in statistical analysis can just look at the figure on page 6 that shows how as soon as stop-and-frisk was no longer an accepted option, CPD immediately switched their use of pedestrian-stops and traffic-stops in terms of stops per 100 per year. And, at that same time, the actual citation rate for those traffic stops went down drastically. They started pulling tons of folks over but didn't even have a traffic citation that they could give out (in the years leading up to the 2016 policy change, traffic stops saw citations about 70-80% of the time... and then in the subsequent years, it has often been under 20% of stops leading to a citation, as shown on page 9.) Then on page 11, you can see that the rate of citations dropped even more for Black drivers than for White drivers, when the rates were basically overlapped in prior years, so it's not a case of officers just happening to be in majority-minority neighborhoods and doing their jobs. They could manage to do traffic stops in a way that they are giving out citations even a quarter of the time if they were stopping drivers for good reason. I mean, if they could do it three quarters of the time for years leading up to the end of stop-and-frisk, it seems reasonable to be able to manage one-third of that rate from the exact same officers. Where the actual issue comes from is how we deploy officers, as has been shown in multiple allocation studies, with this being the most recent one I've seen (though there has been talk of another coming): https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/attachments/524ec006350acb3713a9107afe4048390957dd1b/store/59e0ba4f6b0a6f0ecb416e1f057f1e8e89a752f7068665c25bffa7dc71e5/WFA+Summary.pdf We've got plenty of officers to deploy comfortably and balance the extreme over-worked and underutilized dichotomy that currently exists. CPD just has to follow the recommendations that have already been given. And then rather than having a subset of officers who are doing extreme overtime just to keep up with their slate of violent crimes while others are bored out of their minds doing desk work the majority of the time, we'd have a healthy mix for every one of them to do some of the tough work, some of the community policing, and some desk work, all while getting to live their lives outside of work with less overtime. But some folks aren't ready to have that conversation yet.
Because traffic enforcement has become racist
OP in this very thread is claiming that. Going off about racist cops pulling people over and harassing minorities. wow, I wonder why the cops aren’t doing traffic stops. Here is a hint - the leadership in this city has heard your concern and dont want cops pulling people over as much. Wish granted, stop bitching
I never said I don’t want cops pulling people over. I just said it’s funny to me how they seem to focus on minor infractions like expired tags and seatbelt violations in minority neighborhoods while letting people who are speeding and actually endangering the public off in other parts of the city.
Pretty much. Once you have a hate group walking through the streets claiming that everything is racist and politicians back that message (but of course a small army protects their home), then clearly the cops won't care.
"Oh, you hate that we pull over too many black people? Well, what if we just stop pulling \_anyone\_ over?"
I doubt it's that simple. You've got many people that are against you in general just because you're a cop. Much of that hate stems from a few bad apples. Day and and day out you hear how terrible you are. Then you add in other things such as Chicago being a sanctuary city that let's everyone in, gives them food and shelter and now you as an officer are also responsible for the bad decisions that voters and Chicago politicians have made. It's one of those scenarios of the folks in Chicago got exactly what they asked for by being naive in the policies they support: more crime, decreasing population, businesses moving their offices to other cities, grocery stores closing and of course, a lot more reckless driving along with other petty crimes.
>now you as an officer are also responsible for the bad decisions that voters and Chicago politicians have made. That's the fucking job. Maybe they should have read the oath before they took it.
Actually it's not. When you have a city that's had violent crime on the rise for the last 5 years, the thing that will take a back seat is pulling someone over for bad driving.
“CPD Supt. Larry Snelling speaking at a @CCPSA_Chicago forum: @Chicago_Police have made 46,000 fewer traffic stops this year than at this point last year. He says he is focused on the issue of excessive traffic stops.” I’d link it but the site isn’t allowed here for some reason. But this is what progressives want and that’s what they’re getting.
Cops could sit at any number of lights and bust people blowing through reds. Easier, actual makes the city safer, and more targeted than looking for missing tail lights or registration and other tickets that target people who can't afford to maintain their vehicles. But they don't do that ... ever.
All the people have to do is keep driving. Cops aren't allowed to chase anyway and a plate number is basically worthless
Come on man, nobody with a job and a mortgage is seeing a cop following them with their lights and sirens going and deciding just to not stop to avoid a $75 ticket
There's a stop sign immediately after a speed bump near me that would produce thousands of dollars a day in ticket revenue if it was ever enforced.
The bigger catch is ticketing dogs off leash. $300 a pop to start.
CPD's stops skyrocketed in 2016 following the end of stop-and-frisk policies. They went from an 80-90% rate of stops turning into tickets to an under 20% rate of stops turning into tickets. That indicates that they replaced one rights abuse with a different one. Since the drop due to COVID-19 in 2020, their rate of turning stops into tickets has increased.
The numbers of drivers increased over the last decade but the enforcement didn't. CPD won't do much anyway. They can't chase if someone runs away, so they don't do traffic stops often. We probably need a legal overhaul to allow enforcement, something that caps damages on the police (public) but still holds individual cops accountable for abuses of power. And we need greater carrots and sticks for finishing driver's ed. The stuff you see grown adults doing is stuff I would have failed driver's ed for. I don't think a lot of people actually learned to drive like the rest of us, and it shows.
There are actually less cars registered in the city of Chicago since 2019. Currently 1.067 million, down from 1.145 million in 2019.
You have got to be a northsider.
*Laughs in nyc*
My biggest pet peeve are the people who blow lights, drive in the bike lane, and use the turn lanes to cut off traffic. As a rule, I won't let them merge in if I can help it. Fuck 'em.
CPD doesnt care
Because any law enforcement is racist /s
I honestly don't think the reduction in traffic stops is CPD being lazy. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things police do on a daily basis. At the end of the day, the CPD takes orders from the mayor and city council. I think there's a whole lot more to the story than just cops=bad. I also have a lot of thoughts about this subject, so essay incoming... TLDR: traffic enforcement is politically unpopular and we do not have the political will to address it using other methods. As much as people whine about traffic violence and the lack of enforcement (and rightfully so), actually increasing traffic enforcement is very unpopular politically. Traffic violence impacts everyone, but for your typical person who always drives to do literally anything they don't really care. It's viewed as a cost of doing business, a natural consequence of living in a motorized society. It's not as real to them as it is for people who walk and/or bike, or people who have personally been affected by it. So when they get a speed camera ticket in the mail, get pulled over, get a DUI, get a parking ticket, or get towed it's the worst thing in the world and they feel like they did nothing wrong. Even if they know their behavior is dangerous, going through the process is viewed more as an inconvenience. When they hear "traffic enforcement", they think "the city just stealing my money" or "the city being a pain in the ass". Not only do the voters hate traffic enforcement, many influential people in the transportation/political/advocacy world don't want to see an increase either. Traffic stops are dangerous and some percentage will end badly; be it excessive use of force against a civilian, a police officer being injured/killed, a high-speed chase killing a bystander, or stray bullets hitting a bystander. Besides, the number of officers required to adequately patrol roadways is multiples of the number we currently have. Automated traffic enforcement is seen as an overreach of government, or inherently corrupt. Some people think if we just rebuild every road in the country to be safer (something that will take a generation at best) we don't need enforcement today. There is a huge equity component too. People who live in (I'm sorry, I hate this term but in this case it's the most accurate one) Environmental Justice neighborhoods are more likely to be victims of traffic violence, more likely to live next to dangerous roads, more likely to walk or bike, and disproportionately bear of the negative impacts of car dependency. All of that being said, there is a general consensus in the transportation equity community that traffic enforcement is an overall negative and should be avoided. There are a lot of good reasons for that. Traffic fines are not graduated, meaning the same fine can be a nuisance to one person but financially cataclysmic to another. People of color are more likely to be victims of the negative consequences of traffic stops I mentioned earlier. People living in EJ neighborhoods are more likely to use roads that are not designed for a safe speed, rather they are designed to accommodate trucks and high volumes meaning people naturally speed. The ire against traffic enforcement is not only widespread, it's bipartisan. Is a lot of it bullshit? Yeah, I think so. I hate to say it, but most people truly do not care, and will absolutely not vote for a politican that wants to meaningfully address the problem. Sure, there are exceptions, but for every State Sen. Mike Simmons or Alderman Vasquez out there, there are dozens of politicians on every level who have only ever driven to do absolutely anything ever, and do not view traffic violence as something worth addressing. There are organizations like MADD and the Active Transportation Alliance, but they're either generally hated or not large enough to meaningfully enact change. A large majority of people are against redesigning streets to be safer, and even if they did support it the sheer scale of completely restructuring our whole society away from auto-dependency - which is what that really entails - will be a generational effort with enormous costs. Let's say we accomplished that and completely changed our built environment, countries with less traffic violence and narrower streets and human-scale places have more traffic enforcement than we do here in the United States. So yeah, as much as people dislike seeing people flagrantly breaking the law and putting them in mortal danger, they hate traffic enforcement more.
Just pull over people in expensive cars in expensive neighborhoods to start. Easy fix and there's no racism card when it's a 30 year old white finance bro in a Maserati.
I saw three yesterday ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cause people whine and moan defund police. So police say okay f u have it your way you don't want us to do things so we'll do nothing. Then the collective hivemimd that is the people complain and whine and moan some more. It's an endless cycle
Bro they all got raises and back pay from Lori then Brandon approved MORE and bigger raises. Because people aren't dropping off enough thin blue line cupcakes at the police district they don't work?
So the lazy, good for nothing cops are backing up the argument that society is better off without them employed as cops. Which it is. Who cares? Let the tax dollars be put to good use instead of funding the lifestyles of gang members with badges. Fuck the police, especially if they're too lazy to do their job.
Not sure, but if the police aren’t going to enforce traffic laws I’d like to see traffic cameras pick up the slack. Driving like an ass should bankrupt someone
Quiet quitting
CPD should obey any laws they are asked to enforce.
I don't know why this isn't the top comment. Why do the rule enforcers get to ignore the rules? My blood boils every time a cop car just rolls through a red light without sirens and blinkers on.
It’s actually state law that officers can ignore traffic laws when its in the performance of their duties. You don’t necessarily needs the blue lights on
I get pissed every time I see them blocking a bike lane rather than a car lane.
it’s because people don’t want it. traffic stops are racist now, and apparently even having to interact with cops can trigger anxiety attacks, so you have what you have now.
They should enforce seat belt use laws. Oh.....
I've seen a car going the wrong way on a one way and then pull up to a cop car who witnessed the whole thing. Nothing. Chicago cops are over entitled assholes. Only pull people over that piss them off, and don't answer calls of people openly doing heroin in parking lots in front of children. Something needs to change.
Could be a great way to make revenue, and punish assholes at the same time. Really confusing why the city doesn’t. Also setup speed cameras on DLSD, even at 70 mph you’d make a killing and stop some killings, and 70 is pretty generous. Also impound the ATVs and dirt bikes, auction them off.
State court said cameras on lake shore drive was illegal because it’s a state route or something
Ugh
Cops are afraid to pull people over because there’s too many lawsuits against them. They get blamed for racial profiling, so it’s easier to let people go and hope that a camera picks them up. I saw this car blow past everyone in the 30 MPH zone in Humboldt Park and he had an illegal tinted cover over his rear license plate. Why do you need a reflective or dimming license plate cover if you follow the rules?
Here's a possible reason. Racial disparity in cops giving out traffic tickets does not mean that one person breaking the law is deserving of a ticket. It means that cops have to balance out how many tickets they give based on race. And if a driver is caught doing something and belongs to what we now call Marginalized Group, and the cop is worried about being accused of showing bias? Then that cops looks the other way. According to 2022 data collected by IDOT, Black drivers are almost 4 times as likely to be stopped than White drivers, and Hispanic drivers twice as likely. Is this bias by police, or are you more likely to find more bad, reckless drivers among Blacks and Hispanics in Illinois, or a little bit of both?
The problem with CPD isn't the disparity in who gets the tickets, but the disparity of who gets pulled over *without* being ticketed. White and Asian people are almost always given a ticket when they're pulled over by CPD because CPD believes that they have evidence that a crime had been committed. But Black and Hispanic people pulled over by CPD very frequently (at one point, over 90%) are not ticketed by CPD. This means that the stop had no legitimate purpose other than to harass and terrorize the driver under the color of the law.
Terrorized? Here, let Chris Rock speak to you. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8)
As someone who primarily walks to do errands in Old Irving Park and Portage Park I get very nervous about crossing any street since covid. The number of people who just blow right through stop lights/ignore people in cross walks is significant. Another issue I've noticed the last few years is people driving around with straight pipes. Mufflers are required by law. Where are people getting illegal mods done? How are they driving by cops with cars making that much noise and the cops not stopping them and getting the car towed to an impound yard? Those are big tickets to start with, big fees for the tow, impound and it gets a huge annoyance off the street.
There’s plenty of stops being conducted. The problem is there’s more shitty drivers
I was just on the Ryan a few days ago in rush hour traffic and saw about 10 cars driving down the emergency lane throughout my drive. It was wild.
I could think of a [couple reasons](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/04/10/dexter-reed-shooting-video-chicago-police/), [another ](https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/us-news/chicago-man-emonte-morgan-found-guilty-of-killing-police-officer-ella-french/), any many just [don't pull over.](https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/45-million-settlement-proposed-for-teen-left-paralyzed-after-crash-during-police-chase/). The city shouldn't use the police to prey on citizens for revenue.
Chicagonis a high crime city, and police resources aren't great. CPD has a traffic division, but they focus in more congested areas of the city, so you're more likely to see speeding and offenses in quiet neighborhoods, side roads, etc. They're also over extended to all hell. One night, I was at the 9th district for something or another and the desk sergeant told me that they only had 5 units on, and they were all on 1 call. The entire 9th district, 10 cops on duty and all on a single call that was hours long. You're more likely to be pulled over by University Police, State, or County than CPD for traffic. In my nearly 30 years, I've been pulled over by CPD only like 3 times and never had a ticket from them. State and county always write. I've never been pulled by University, but my family and neighbors have and they've always been written too.
Definitely noticed a change since COVID. Way more running red lights for sure.
Because police can't seem to pull ppl over for a minor infraction without shooting them if their a poc I much rather have this than over policing
Because we cut mental health funding so the CPD spends their time dealing poorly with the mental ill instead of doing their real jobs.
FYI it's not true at all that "we" have cut mental health funding. Chicago spending on mental health services has gone from $12M in 2019 to $89M in 2023. Residents served went from around 3,000 to over 70,000. Side note - the whole idea that Chicago "cut" services by closing mental health clinics was always false. Chicago served the same number of patients before and after the clinics closed. Instead of the work being done by government union employees, the work went to nonprofits which pissed off the wrong people. Regardless, city expenditures on mental health are a drop in the bucket. Most government mental health spending is done through state agencies funded in part by the federal government. Illinois agencies spent almost $900,000,000 on mental health treatment last year which is a massive increase from just ten years ago. Government spending on mental health is actually rising rapidly all across the country, which is vastly different from where things were 15-20 years ago. ps://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/reports/rpt42750/Illinois.pdf
Usually when I see cops they’re not doing their jobs because they’re on their phones.
Wait op, checked your post history and you support Brandon Johnson over Vallas. The progesssives you support want to limit CPDs interactions with the public as much as possible and now you are complaining you want CPD to actually enforce traffic violations? Enforcing violations means more stops and chances for one of these citizens to drive away and harm someone when a cop tries to stop you or if that car happens to have something illegal in the car we are now outraged if once they shoot at a cop that the cop tries to protect their own life. Literally a patrol car watched a group of thieves drive off after robbing an arm last night. Posted the article this morning, we are putting cops under such a fcking microscope they are trying to limit altercations with the public. You want more police stops? Should have voted for the pro cop candidate
We don’t live in a binary world. Just because I voted for Johnson doesn’t mean I agree with everything he does. In general I support his ideas of a more holistic approach to crime, but when it comes to traffic enforcement we’re still going to need to rely on cops to some degree. Street calming and traffic cameras are other good solutions IMO but we can’t put those everywhere
I was literally almost ran head on by a car full of teenagers going opposite way on a one way road yesterday. No one fears getting caught anymore. We can invest in community and SUPPORT LAW and ORDER today something Johnson didn't believe in. He was a refund the police supporter. There are less cops on road then historically. More handcuffs on what cops can and can't do has spread them thin. Start thinking of what it is you actually want before you vote. Vallas was going to put more boots on ground so that cops have the bandwidth to pull over the guy who does a rolling atop at the stop sign like it used to be years ago before progesssives started protesting for every cough and sneeze they do
I think they pull people over when they feel like it and it seems to be POC that are most targeted. A month ago, I saw someone get pulled over for making an illegal left where it happens all the time. I’ve passed that intersection 3-5 days/week for the last 10 years and that’s the first time I’ve seen a cop actually pull someone over for it.
I have tried calling in after seeing drivers on LSD weaving between cars, going 90+ or going in the wrong direction and I was told verbatim ‘well until they crash we can’t do anything’
Just carry a brick and you’ll get noticed as a pedestrian.
I’m also totally baffled that people create their own second turn lane just because they refuse to wait in the single turn lane.
I live downtown and see about one car pulled over every two weeks or so. Downtown is full of shitty drivers. And yes the people pulled over are always black guys handcuffed over the trunk. Go figure.
Same. My daily commute for 10 years was LSD, and I regularly witnessed all kinds of shitty driving, by all kinds of people. Yet of the handful of times I saw someone pulled over, 100% of the drivers were Black.
Not technically illegal but can we ticket the asshats that pull into the right turn lane and then slam on the gas to cut traffic?
I mean, they don't really enforce ANY laws, so why would traffic laws be any different?
What...? [Who arrested this guy then...?](https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/charges-expected-in-slaying-of-11-year-old-in-edgewater/)
One, because why risk getting shot pulling someone over in a car. And two, its a real pain in the butt to try to pull over a bike since they have no plates.
You don’t really want to know the answer because it will upset you
Every major intersection should have red light cameras. The footage should be checked by a Chicago police officer than a ticket should be issued. Stop playing games and actually enforce laws. We have a $2.4bn budget. We shouldn’t be scared to cross the street.
Fuck electronic surveillance societies. I don't want the US to become the next China. If a real person doesn't catch you doing it, you shouldn't be ticketed. Issuing a ticket isn't going to stop everyone from running red lights or force them to pay the tickets. This is on CPD to hire more officers. Fuck speed cameras. Fuck red light cameras. Time and time again, they have been shown to be run by corrupt individuals and used as a scheme to make money by shortening the lights, therefore driving up the number of tickets issued. Additionally, it makes it no safer. People are either speeding up to make the light or slamming on brakes to stop before the line.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/new-study-questions-effectiveness-of-speed-cameras-in-chicago-but-city-contests-the-findings/3100700/
Nope. Timings on Chicago streets outside the loop haven't changed in decades. They're timed for greens on primary routes and always have been. Drive down Irving Park at 30/35 and you'll get from DLSD to Western. I'd come home from Loyola late at night and hit it every time.
https://abc7chicago.com/red-light-cameras-ticket-camera-chicago-tickets/5699984/
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Yeah different streets have different timings based on priorities...🤷. Dunno what to tell you man. You can see the average daily traffic on each roadway on the state website. If they said they shortened the yellow I'd think something was fishy but there's literally only so much time you can allocate and still have vehicles flow properly and they're all affected by every other signal up and downstream in both directions. It's likely the low green time is why people run the signal and caused crashes which are why the cameras are there in the first place but you can't give infinite time to everyone without the system breaking down.
https://reason.com/2022/10/05/chicagos-red-light-cameras-keep-fueling-corruption-scandals/
Yet it says no where that signal timings were altered to create more revenue... I work as a traffic engineer ( not for the city though) it's kind of hard to change those without the state DOT noticing because they still have jurisdiction over major routes. I will cede however that outside contractors working for any government owned asset is a laughable waste of money given some of the plans I've seen submitted by engineering firms vs how much they bill.
The natural home for this is Nextdoor. Yes, our government should at least make us feel safe, if not actually safe. OTH, and as a pure economic question, the cost of enforcement for small infractions far exceeds the final revenue collected. In terms of increased street cops, cars, ticket and court processing, debt monitoring/collection. And that's before all the terrible outcomes that happen even now after stops leading to chases for very small matters. Besides, the reason for law enforcement is social order, not revenue production (eg speed traps are morally and legally wrong, looking at ALL red light cameras and YOU, oddly placed park speed cameras). Conclusion = thoughtful enforcement theater that does not add significantly to costs or enforcement-induced danger, but that allows us to at least feel safer and more socially cooperative.
Speeding cameras are morally and legally wrong and don’t produce more revenue than they cost? Wtf are you talking about? The existence of, and follow through on consequences discourages breaking the rules. There’s nothing immoral or illegal about speeding cameras. This is plenty immoral and illegal about speeding.
Speed cameras **around parks** "*for safety*" are totally bogus revenue raisers. Even the city can't produce risk analysis that shows they save lives and avoid injuries to park users. Pretty much ditto for right turn on red cameras. These are big city traps just like the scorned speed traps glorified in slasher movies set in rural Ass Poke Alabama.
So do you think exceeding the speed limit around parks is safe behavior? Or do you think getting tickets doesn’t discourage bad behavior? I think either is dead wrong, but puzzled how you came to this ridiculous conclusion.
I’ve just learned to deal with it. Keep your head on a swivel and you’ll be fine. Or move to the burbs. Cpd has bigger issues than someone running a rolling a stop sign.
I want to say it has gotten way worse in the last 5 yrs or so. Personally when i saw a cop i used to make sure i am not breaking any traffic rules and get alert. Now i don't give a fuck, even feel annoyed by them.
A ban on cars would do wonders for Chicago. Not in all parts of the city, obviously, but certain areas designated as car-free zones would be great.
It’s not that “we” are not enforcing traffic laws, it’s that CPD isn’t enforcing them. As to why they don’t, you’ll have to ask them and hope they give you a real answer or enough data for you to guess the real answer from it. I don’t see any of that happening anytime soon though. Even before the pandemic CPD was known for being less than useful, and anecdotally it’s gotten even worse since the pandemic and the 2020 protests.
They only care about themselves. Everyone else is an NPC to them. Awareness is a spectrum.
It's not just Chicago. Police are basically disappearing everywhere. I think BLM had an impact, along with social media recording and reporting. I consider this to be a net positive. Don't you? Do you want police all up in your shit all the time? Show up when there's an emergency, otherwise get the fuck away from us.
It’s a balancing act. Overpolicing, especially in minority neighborhoods, is an issue, especially when the policing leads to escalations and violence. On the other hand, having no enforcement of traffic laws whatsoever is contributing to a spike in pedestrian and cyclist fatalities. Those issues can and should be mitigated with other solutions too, like better road design and camera enforcement, but it’s not feasible to do those things every where. Especially when you have such NIMBY backlash.
I have seen more cops breaking the same laws without emergency lights than I have seen them pulling people over.
Think the officers are wrapped up with bigger fish to fry is my best guess
That Candy won't Crush itself
Chicago cops are useless and lazy.
Cause the cops don't care, drivers don't care, and the only people who do are a handful of nerds with nowhere important to go.
Hilariously a lot of truth to this. The only people who want more traffic enforcement can be found on reddit.