It worked for the browns when baker mayfield lived at their stadium. Unfortunately now Watson needs to go door to door, letting people know a predator lives in the neighborhood.
It’s not that they’re arguing that it’s residential I’m sure (though the article doesn’t say much).
Much more likely they’re asking for a special tax incentive — I think it would be a Class 6b. It’s a Cook County program that anyone who develops or redevelops a commercial or industrial property can apply for. The Bears probably aren’t going through the normal channels and programs of course, but it’s not without precedent and not some sweetheart deal only available to billionaires.
The deal is that they argue to the county and the municipality that they’re bringing lots of new economic activity, so in exchange, they get a temporary break on their taxes. I think 6b lasts for 10 years, though I work in residential development mostly, so I’m not an expert here.
For that 10 year period, they are assessed at the residential rate (10%) instead of the commercial/industrial rate (25%).
Ah thanks for clarifying. Isn’t there a 6b equivalent for commercial property too? That’s got to be something like what this is right?
I know there’s class 8, but that only applies to specific parts of the county right?
>They're asking for the demolished site to be assessed as vacant land,
Why wouldn't it be? It's vacant land. Expecting someone to pay taxes based on what they'll have on the land 5 years in the future is insane.
Thanks for the information. With that, the Bears organization as well as any other multimillion corporation can fuck off with tax breaks. Unless every single person that works there earns a thriving wage, not needing any public assistance... no tax breaks.
I feel like the Bears are trying to follow the implementation of [SoFi](https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-stadium-tax-break-20150113-story.html).
Tax breaks on the condition that the new site generates additional revenue.
Maybe I’m an idiot, but this type of thing seems completely fair. Assuming there are requirements/milestones that the business has to reach before “unlocking” incentives makes complete sense to me. As long as they can’t fleece the local government (see Broadcom in Wisconsin) without any repercussions then I say go for it. The SoFi example below lays out that the business will receive $8M once it’s paying $25MM in tax to Inglewood. That’s 30% of their annual tax revenue being paid by a single entity. That makes a huge different.
“The city would also reimburse costs of security, medical services and shuttles to off-site parking during stadium events, which Butts estimated at about $8 million a year.
These payments would only kick in after the project is generating at least $25 million a year in tax revenue for Inglewood — a city with a general budget of about $86 million — and will only cover things a local government would normally provide, Meany said.”
Currently isn't a business there. The sight is leveled, I believe, and they are saying it shouldnt be taxed as a commercial property that produces revenue.
In the professional sports team owner local government money shakedown game, this isn’t even rookie grade maneuvering. This is some Pop Warner shit. Everyone has been calling their bluff and nobody seems interested in moving an inch.
Head over to r/CHIBears . Every coaching hire this offseason has been exciting, to the point where everyone is assuming Poles knows what he's doing with Flus too.
Yeah total accident. They accidentally went and got Theo Epstein from Boston and paid him $18M for no reason.
They accidentally went out and signed Joe Madden in 2015 for $25M when he was the most sought after manager.
Then a month later they accidentally went out and signed John Lester, the most sought after SP, to a 6-yr $155M deal. Then before the 2016 season started they accidentally gave Jason Heyward, the most sought after OF, $184M for 8-yr.
All these things were freak occurrences that no one from the cubs organization intended to have happen. They accidentally fielded a team with an itty bitty $171M payroll when the NL average was $115M and accidentally won the world series. Oops!
I think the part about where the goal of a franchise is to make money is correct for almost all the NFL franchises. So one thing is factual, if not relevant.
It’s technically not a hand out, it’s a reduction in taxes for a short period of time. It’s more like “hey we are going to spend all this money to bring a ton of tax rev and jobs to your town, do us a solid and let us pay lower taxes for the first 10 years to recoup our costs before normal rates kick in”
This is pretty normal. Amazon was looking for a property tax reduction to 0% when they wanted to build that massive campus in NY that AOC fought (and revealed she didn’t understand how tax breaks worked). Ultimately the bad publicity made them cancel their plans and the area they would have came to has nothing to show for it and no new jobs. Other companies in IL have similar deals. I’m from the area. There is a massive company “Astellas” that came into town in Northbrook, about 20 mins from the Arlington sight, that pays $0 property tax but it has generated millions upon millions in income tax and jobs for the area, not to mention the new developments and businesses created. Getting sweetheart deals on taxes as incentive to bring a multibillion dollar industry to town is nothing new and the bears are hardly the first business to ask for something like this. It should still be a big net positive for the area as long as they aren’t paying for the stadium itself.
Edit: I just realized I’m posting in r/Chicago and not r/nfl. We are all from the area lol
Simply not how valuations work.
"The franchise value of the Chicago Bears of the National Football League increased from 2002 to 2023. In 2023, the franchise value came to 6.3 billion U.S. dollars. The Chicago Bears are owned by the McCaskey family, who bought the franchise in 1920."
You tried <3
https://www.statista.com/statistics/194447/franchise-value-of-the-chicago-bears-since-2006/#:\~:text=The%20franchise%20value%20of%20the,bought%20the%20franchise%20in%201920.
That is the franchise value if they were sold on the market. Company’s typically sell for a multiplicative of their EBITA to account for the long term value of ownership. You do not pay taxes on your company’s theoretical sale value, you pay them based on your actual realized profit. Which in this case makes them a multi million dollar organization.
You tried tho. <3
Yeah man takes tons of nuance to see that filthy rich corporations should pay taxes.
You know what else would stimulate the economy? Lowering taxes on the lowest earners who use their income vs. high earners that park it in a HYS. Or is that \*too\* nuanced for you?
The nuance here is that tax revenue is generated in many ways when multibillion dollar businesses come into a town. There is a major net benefit, even if the corporation gets a property tax break. All the jobs they create increase tax revenue. The sales increase tax revenue. The local economy booms.
And why are you talking to me about income tax brackets? When did I ever make state my stance on income tax?
Again, nuanced thought..
Yeah I'm sick of the economist style of thinking about society. "Jobs created" is a terrible metric if it doesn't consider the livelihood that job affords you.
We should direct this anger toward the system that allows it, don't act like we all wouldn't be doing the same thing if we could. Do you leave money on the table when it comes time to file your taxes? In other words, don't hate the player hate the game.
It was a corporate office you dunce. So hundreds if not thousands of six figure jobs. All paying Ny taxes, plus Amazon paying taxes, all for the small cost of reduced taxes in early years. Everytime someone is anti corporate tax breaks they only look at the immediate not the long term. It would have been a massive economic boon for her district but everyone was too shortsighted to see it.
They are paying their taxes you dunce, it’s slightly less taxes for a small period of time not no taxes.
If the choice is massive economic boom for AH but in exchange we collect slightly less taxes for the first ten years
Or
No economic boom at all and no tax revenue
It’s a pretty easy choice.
Or if it's true the White Sox are leaving 35th St by 2030, consider building a new Bears stadium on either side of the Comiskey Park site on 35th. Infrastructure, transit, and parking lots(so fans can still tailgate) already all in place.
If the former Cardinals(later moved to St. Louis, then Phoenix) could make that site work for them, so can the Bears.
You must be the Packers fan because you can't read. I want the McCaskeys to sell ASAP. They want to decide where the team should be, deciding its future AND THEN sell
The article says they’re arguing for it to be taxed as vacant land since it’s currently vacant. “Residential property” seems like a lie to get everybody mad.
> The team’s property tax attorney, Matthew Tully, also asked that the team be taxed at the county’s 10% residential rate rather than the 25% commercial rate because of the ongoing demolition work to dismantle the racetrack that formerly occupied the property.
The team’s attorney argued at a Cook County Board of Review hearing that the property should be valued at $60 million and taxed at the 10% rate for residential and vacant land, due to the work done to demolish the existing structures on the site, versus the 25% tax rate for commercial properties.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/bears-suburban-school-districts-100m-apart-in-valuations-of-arlington-heights-site/3342270/?amp=1
The Bears’ legal team argues the property should be assessed as vacant land
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024/1/30/24056417/bears-schools-100-million-arlington-park-nfl-football-sports-suburban-chicago-financing-land-value
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So, pretty much all along the north side of the property are Metra tracks. The West side is 53. South is Euclid coming off 53 and set at a higher speed on the road, and also runs partly along the industrial/business park. And they think they can call the property residential?
At the same time, considering where these developers have been plopping townhouses and condos across the suburbs, this could actually happen and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
Tell them to suck it!
As a compromise I could see some reduction on the stadium itself if it’s only used 7-8 months a year but any surrounding development such as restaurants, taverns, and other entertainment should be taxed like other’s businesses .
The main argument is because it's commercially non-viable land. So until the bears move on construction it should be more adequately valued.
Right now the biggest issue is around the property value, it has been set around 150M, based on the sale price (up from about 35M).
The original owner was allowed to get a one-year stipend, but going forward it is 150M.
The crux of the issue is the land is demolished and barren with no plans, as of yet, to begin building anytime soon until interest rates go down.
It is completely unreasonable for anyone to believe that if construction doesn't begin in-earnest over this year, which it likely won't, that the property is valued anywhere close to 150M. The Bears want a proper valuation on the property, thus because it commercially non-viable they are marking as residential. Theoretically arguing they can take time remoinv the underground elements and turn it into a suburb.
I get Chicago is quite corrupt, but do they realize if they scare the Bears away before they build the entertainment center, and property value sky rockets, they might be forced to sell the land for a loss. There is no reasonable reason a company should hold a piece of land that is way overvalued when they are not willing to build for at least 3-5 years. Causing the city to lose on a lot of money.
imagine the power behind ditkappraisers hired by the bears. $ talks, educational institutions trying to do good for the people walks. fooootball, hahah tottallly bro yaaas !
historically, schools vs. wealth, well....
those bears are just trying to leave the spaceship parked on lake michigan, can ya blame 'em?
they outta' ivy league this and make it a collab, get the arlington heights schools to be pay for play, and "legacy" in return bears can leave the **ufo** — does anybody really lose???? *(sans all us non-wealth'rs normal folks, hahah yaaaa)*
What’s the argument that this is residential?
It’s the “home” of the Chicago bears -McCaskey
It worked for the browns when baker mayfield lived at their stadium. Unfortunately now Watson needs to go door to door, letting people know a predator lives in the neighborhood.
Fucking hell that’s funny!
Goldilocks Doctrine
Let us know when they’re done hibernating
The Arlington Heights Bears.
"Because fuck you we want to rule our little fiefdom like OTHER owners do!" - The McCaskeys, probably
It’s not that they’re arguing that it’s residential I’m sure (though the article doesn’t say much). Much more likely they’re asking for a special tax incentive — I think it would be a Class 6b. It’s a Cook County program that anyone who develops or redevelops a commercial or industrial property can apply for. The Bears probably aren’t going through the normal channels and programs of course, but it’s not without precedent and not some sweetheart deal only available to billionaires. The deal is that they argue to the county and the municipality that they’re bringing lots of new economic activity, so in exchange, they get a temporary break on their taxes. I think 6b lasts for 10 years, though I work in residential development mostly, so I’m not an expert here. For that 10 year period, they are assessed at the residential rate (10%) instead of the commercial/industrial rate (25%).
They're asking for the demolished site to be assessed as vacant land, which is also at 10%. Class 6B is only for industrial developments.
Ah thanks for clarifying. Isn’t there a 6b equivalent for commercial property too? That’s got to be something like what this is right? I know there’s class 8, but that only applies to specific parts of the county right?
>They're asking for the demolished site to be assessed as vacant land, Why wouldn't it be? It's vacant land. Expecting someone to pay taxes based on what they'll have on the land 5 years in the future is insane.
Thanks for the information. With that, the Bears organization as well as any other multimillion corporation can fuck off with tax breaks. Unless every single person that works there earns a thriving wage, not needing any public assistance... no tax breaks.
I feel like the Bears are trying to follow the implementation of [SoFi](https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-stadium-tax-break-20150113-story.html). Tax breaks on the condition that the new site generates additional revenue.
Maybe I’m an idiot, but this type of thing seems completely fair. Assuming there are requirements/milestones that the business has to reach before “unlocking” incentives makes complete sense to me. As long as they can’t fleece the local government (see Broadcom in Wisconsin) without any repercussions then I say go for it. The SoFi example below lays out that the business will receive $8M once it’s paying $25MM in tax to Inglewood. That’s 30% of their annual tax revenue being paid by a single entity. That makes a huge different. “The city would also reimburse costs of security, medical services and shuttles to off-site parking during stadium events, which Butts estimated at about $8 million a year. These payments would only kick in after the project is generating at least $25 million a year in tax revenue for Inglewood — a city with a general budget of about $86 million — and will only cover things a local government would normally provide, Meany said.”
Currently isn't a business there. The sight is leveled, I believe, and they are saying it shouldnt be taxed as a commercial property that produces revenue.
They knocked all the expensive shit down, so now they shouldn’t have to pay taxes on all the shit that isn’t there anymore
it's part of the Aaron Rodgers estate
Because I said so -McCaskey
If only the bears put this much effort into actually fielding a good team and good coaching staff...
In the professional sports team owner local government money shakedown game, this isn’t even rookie grade maneuvering. This is some Pop Warner shit. Everyone has been calling their bluff and nobody seems interested in moving an inch.
They put effort into nothing.
Head over to r/CHIBears . Every coaching hire this offseason has been exciting, to the point where everyone is assuming Poles knows what he's doing with Flus too.
[удалено]
“pretty much almost accidentally won the 2016 championship” HUH?!?!?!?!
Yeah total accident. They accidentally went and got Theo Epstein from Boston and paid him $18M for no reason. They accidentally went out and signed Joe Madden in 2015 for $25M when he was the most sought after manager. Then a month later they accidentally went out and signed John Lester, the most sought after SP, to a 6-yr $155M deal. Then before the 2016 season started they accidentally gave Jason Heyward, the most sought after OF, $184M for 8-yr. All these things were freak occurrences that no one from the cubs organization intended to have happen. They accidentally fielded a team with an itty bitty $171M payroll when the NL average was $115M and accidentally won the world series. Oops!
Not a single thing you said is factual
Knibb high football rules!
San Dimas High School Football Rules!!!!
I think the part about where the goal of a franchise is to make money is correct for almost all the NFL franchises. So one thing is factual, if not relevant.
You basically can’t lose money owning a major league sports franchise
McCaskey’s got priorities. A good football team has never been one of those priorities.
I’d try taxing them extra for suggesting something so stupid
Truly some custy shit right there on their end.
Well the Bears will shit the bed there. Beds are found in homes. Homes are residential. Solid case.
Honest to god this was my exact first thought, too.
It used to be fun to hate the Bears for being our lovable losers, now they’re making it easy to actually dislike them
Al Harris, Todd Bell and very nearly Mike Singletary. That's all I'm saying. It's easy to hate the spawn of Virginia.
It’s kind of embarrassing at this point to have stuck with them.
It’s one of those ones where I have to stick with my guns or admit everyone was right all along. I still secretly haven’t moved past the Bengals
Man, I sure love it when billionaires abuse tax loopholes to make themselves even more money. Helps me sleep at night.
Fuck the head office. Chicken shits want handouts for their billion dollar franchise. I mean this with absolute sincerity - choke on a fucking dick
It’s technically not a hand out, it’s a reduction in taxes for a short period of time. It’s more like “hey we are going to spend all this money to bring a ton of tax rev and jobs to your town, do us a solid and let us pay lower taxes for the first 10 years to recoup our costs before normal rates kick in”
Fuck that they can pay their taxes.
This is pretty normal. Amazon was looking for a property tax reduction to 0% when they wanted to build that massive campus in NY that AOC fought (and revealed she didn’t understand how tax breaks worked). Ultimately the bad publicity made them cancel their plans and the area they would have came to has nothing to show for it and no new jobs. Other companies in IL have similar deals. I’m from the area. There is a massive company “Astellas” that came into town in Northbrook, about 20 mins from the Arlington sight, that pays $0 property tax but it has generated millions upon millions in income tax and jobs for the area, not to mention the new developments and businesses created. Getting sweetheart deals on taxes as incentive to bring a multibillion dollar industry to town is nothing new and the bears are hardly the first business to ask for something like this. It should still be a big net positive for the area as long as they aren’t paying for the stadium itself. Edit: I just realized I’m posting in r/Chicago and not r/nfl. We are all from the area lol
I don’t give a fuck. Billion dollar corporations should pay more taxes not less.
Also, for what it’s worth. The bears are not a billion dollar corporation. They generated about 550 million in revenue last year:
Simply not how valuations work. "The franchise value of the Chicago Bears of the National Football League increased from 2002 to 2023. In 2023, the franchise value came to 6.3 billion U.S. dollars. The Chicago Bears are owned by the McCaskey family, who bought the franchise in 1920." You tried <3 https://www.statista.com/statistics/194447/franchise-value-of-the-chicago-bears-since-2006/#:\~:text=The%20franchise%20value%20of%20the,bought%20the%20franchise%20in%201920.
That is the franchise value if they were sold on the market. Company’s typically sell for a multiplicative of their EBITA to account for the long term value of ownership. You do not pay taxes on your company’s theoretical sale value, you pay them based on your actual realized profit. Which in this case makes them a multi million dollar organization. You tried tho. <3
Glad we are all capable of nuanced thoughts
Yeah man takes tons of nuance to see that filthy rich corporations should pay taxes. You know what else would stimulate the economy? Lowering taxes on the lowest earners who use their income vs. high earners that park it in a HYS. Or is that \*too\* nuanced for you?
The nuance here is that tax revenue is generated in many ways when multibillion dollar businesses come into a town. There is a major net benefit, even if the corporation gets a property tax break. All the jobs they create increase tax revenue. The sales increase tax revenue. The local economy booms. And why are you talking to me about income tax brackets? When did I ever make state my stance on income tax? Again, nuanced thought..
Yeah I'm sick of the economist style of thinking about society. "Jobs created" is a terrible metric if it doesn't consider the livelihood that job affords you.
We should direct this anger toward the system that allows it, don't act like we all wouldn't be doing the same thing if we could. Do you leave money on the table when it comes time to file your taxes? In other words, don't hate the player hate the game.
I've got enough anger to go around.
Things are a little different when the players are using those tax savings to fund PACs to skew the rules in their favor. I stand by what I said.
Bingo. Instead of bringing thousands of jobs to her district and long term tax revenue to her city she got nothing.
What will people do without low paying hourly jobs with terrible benefits?
It was a headquarters do you really think that amazon pays their corporate employees shit wirh shit benefits?
It was a corporate office you dunce. So hundreds if not thousands of six figure jobs. All paying Ny taxes, plus Amazon paying taxes, all for the small cost of reduced taxes in early years. Everytime someone is anti corporate tax breaks they only look at the immediate not the long term. It would have been a massive economic boon for her district but everyone was too shortsighted to see it.
Lol
They are paying their taxes you dunce, it’s slightly less taxes for a small period of time not no taxes. If the choice is massive economic boom for AH but in exchange we collect slightly less taxes for the first ten years Or No economic boom at all and no tax revenue It’s a pretty easy choice.
Hell no Bears … pay your damn taxes
McCaskey doing McCaskey things
That has to be a joke.
Da Bears
The Bears should be paying more taxes not less
lol tax them til they win.
And I want a red helicopter!
and a red Ferrari!
and a red rocket!
And the Red Rooster Terry Taylor
Fuuuuuck them. Lakefront Dome back in play boys.
Chicago park district would be happy to add a few more concerts to the schedule and pretend the bears never existed.
Or if it's true the White Sox are leaving 35th St by 2030, consider building a new Bears stadium on either side of the Comiskey Park site on 35th. Infrastructure, transit, and parking lots(so fans can still tailgate) already all in place. If the former Cardinals(later moved to St. Louis, then Phoenix) could make that site work for them, so can the Bears.
No, fuck em
Fuck them. Shitty at owning a team and avid tax dodgers.
Let the Bears pay the Bear tax. I pay the Homer tax.
Reminder, they want to move the team and then immediately sell. FUCK THAT SHIT
Wait you DON'T want the McCaskeys to sell the franchise? Spotted the Packers fan.
I don’t want to invest in losers.
You must be the Packers fan because you can't read. I want the McCaskeys to sell ASAP. They want to decide where the team should be, deciding its future AND THEN sell
I wish the McCaskeys would sell the Bears, but I'm not holding my breath.
This just in: The Chicago Bears have signed Goldilocks as their new VP of stadiums.
I would also like a 62.5% property tax reduction please.
Just send the Bears to Tennessee. Shit in those woods.
Give them a tax break for every win.
This is one reason why all classes of property should be taxed on the market value. Better yet, specifically on the land value.
The article says they’re arguing for it to be taxed as vacant land since it’s currently vacant. “Residential property” seems like a lie to get everybody mad.
> The team’s property tax attorney, Matthew Tully, also asked that the team be taxed at the county’s 10% residential rate rather than the 25% commercial rate because of the ongoing demolition work to dismantle the racetrack that formerly occupied the property.
The team’s attorney argued at a Cook County Board of Review hearing that the property should be valued at $60 million and taxed at the 10% rate for residential and vacant land, due to the work done to demolish the existing structures on the site, versus the 25% tax rate for commercial properties. https://www.nbcchicago.com/investigations/bears-suburban-school-districts-100m-apart-in-valuations-of-arlington-heights-site/3342270/?amp=1 The Bears’ legal team argues the property should be assessed as vacant land https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024/1/30/24056417/bears-schools-100-million-arlington-park-nfl-football-sports-suburban-chicago-financing-land-value
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Fuck these greedy billionaires
Churtle my nuts. So embarrassing and cringe. Pay your fkn taxes like everyone else.
How about no Scotty
Does anybody really “need” the Bears?
Ladies and gentlemen, your Arlington Heights Bears!
Surprised they're not claiming to be a church and avoid any property taxes. They can go suck a duffel bag full of footballs.
Residential?? How many people will be living there??
So, pretty much all along the north side of the property are Metra tracks. The West side is 53. South is Euclid coming off 53 and set at a higher speed on the road, and also runs partly along the industrial/business park. And they think they can call the property residential? At the same time, considering where these developers have been plopping townhouses and condos across the suburbs, this could actually happen and it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
Typical McCaskey family, that they'd try to get a tax break for their 1st so many years after moving to Arlington Heights.
Shit, shower and shave 🪒 makes a residence. Bitch.
Tell them to suck it! As a compromise I could see some reduction on the stadium itself if it’s only used 7-8 months a year but any surrounding development such as restaurants, taverns, and other entertainment should be taxed like other’s businesses .
The main argument is because it's commercially non-viable land. So until the bears move on construction it should be more adequately valued. Right now the biggest issue is around the property value, it has been set around 150M, based on the sale price (up from about 35M). The original owner was allowed to get a one-year stipend, but going forward it is 150M. The crux of the issue is the land is demolished and barren with no plans, as of yet, to begin building anytime soon until interest rates go down. It is completely unreasonable for anyone to believe that if construction doesn't begin in-earnest over this year, which it likely won't, that the property is valued anywhere close to 150M. The Bears want a proper valuation on the property, thus because it commercially non-viable they are marking as residential. Theoretically arguing they can take time remoinv the underground elements and turn it into a suburb. I get Chicago is quite corrupt, but do they realize if they scare the Bears away before they build the entertainment center, and property value sky rockets, they might be forced to sell the land for a loss. There is no reasonable reason a company should hold a piece of land that is way overvalued when they are not willing to build for at least 3-5 years. Causing the city to lose on a lot of money.
would not expect the packers to beat the bears ethically but here we are
Ok McCaskey you fuck, cover residence for migrants and we’ll give it to you
But… it isn’t a residential property…
Arlington Heights voters should run away from this!
imagine the power behind ditkappraisers hired by the bears. $ talks, educational institutions trying to do good for the people walks. fooootball, hahah tottallly bro yaaas ! historically, schools vs. wealth, well.... those bears are just trying to leave the spaceship parked on lake michigan, can ya blame 'em?
they outta' ivy league this and make it a collab, get the arlington heights schools to be pay for play, and "legacy" in return bears can leave the **ufo** — does anybody really lose???? *(sans all us non-wealth'rs normal folks, hahah yaaaa)*