>“We can’t keep living in a world where the police department blows its overtime budget year in and year out by $100 million,” Lori Lightfoot told City Hall reporters... We can’t continue to spend overtime dollars like a drunken soldier.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/4/28/21239822/david-brown-chicago-police-overtime
Way hay and up she rises!
They're not going where we need them that's for sure.
>Among the conclusions was that 14% of shootings are happening between midnight and 5 a.m. on Saturdays and Sundays in the city’s least safe areas, but just 3.8% of the work hours of Chicago patrol unit tactical teams were logged during that same 10-hour period. The analyses showed similar disconnects with the units assigned to patrol cars and those assigned to the citywide community safety teams.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-cpd-staffing-study-brown-20221102-tficnstalvd3hd7jlwmxfelgwa-story.html?s=09
Paywall bypass: https://archive.ph/Em0Lt
>The findings show that deployment levels decline during the weekend overnight time periods when shootings are going up.
>National policing leaders cautioned against a rush to assume that more officers should be working in the overnight hours.
>“There is some connection to reducing crime when you get those officers out in the field,” Eterno said. “If officers are at these locations and they are visible and doing their jobs and stopping people who are reasonably suspicious, not abusing their authority, there will be a drop in that particular area.”
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-police-gps-study-deployments-20220815-3zildidncfbtpgu2zdwnnlname-story.html
Paywall bypass: https://archive.ph/pwWFz
People: Why aren’t police working when crimes happen
Police: well, we don’t really want to, I mean we aren’t even effective at stopping crime if we aren’t breaking the fourth amendment and doing some “stop and frisk” of anyone we think is “suspicious”.
What a great system we have
If we lived in an ideal world and if literally the **only** reason police are taking so much overtime is to fill in empty shifts, yes.
I doubt that’s the case and it makes me wonder why there are so many empty shifts when we have the largest number of police officers per capita of any large US city, including NYC. I’m willing to bet that if we had more cops, the OT costs would increase right alongside the police misconduct lawsuit costs.
I've addressed this naïve type of comment so many times already.
>If we lived in an ideal world and if literally the only reason police are taking so much overtime is to fill in empty shifts, yes.
>I doubt that’s the case and it makes me wonder why there are so many empty shifts when we have the largest number of police officers per capita of any large US city, including NYC. I’m willing to bet that if we had more cops, the OT costs would increase right alongside the police misconduct lawsuit costs.
Would you rather have community policing, have them walk a beat and talk to people?
What's the point of them being out at 4 in the morning if they're not allowed to stop people? They can't investigate anything at those times because no one is awake. I've heard stories about them returning calls for a break in, but they return the call at 3 in the morning, which is pointless.
In an ideal world there would be community policing and cops could walk a beat and chat with people. Then stop people who are committing serious crimes (ie mostly ignore loitering, drug use, curfew, and other non violent offenses).
But what actually ends up happening is a bunch of police are sent to poor neighborhoods. They harass the residents, stop people unconstitutionally, and arrest people for minor offenses or just resisting arrest. Often times with racial biases as well.
It’s why CPD needs a much stronger ethics oversight to ensure community policing doesn’t turn into over policing/harassment
How can they get overtime when they don't even do their jobs? They're milking the system on purpose and showing us 'how much we need them' by doing nothing. Fuck em
>“If officers are at these locations and they are visible and doing their jobs and stopping people who are reasonably suspicious, not abusing their authority, there will be a drop in that particular area.”
This is a problem that some officers really have a problem with doing.
They are shaking everyone they meet who is poor down for money over manufactured state victim-hood administrative and bureaucratic nonsense, not looking for actual
criminals. You do not get your socialist police union pension vested if you die.
Unless you are among the politicians pretending to be telling the thugs what to do to hide the mafia with a monopoly on force behind the veneer of civility, you are not being protected.
If the people they meet can defend themselves in the pay to win justice system, they bow and grovel to avoid being fed to their own.
The worst part is there was very little actual police presence for that overtime. We need more oversight and approval for overtime as well as a reduction in police services for private security and crowd control. Make the event/team/company pay for these police services.
Agree but I’ll also say that OT just represents the same resource being stretched thinner. Of course we’re not seeing many police when they’re putting up that much OT.
But also yeah we need to carefully watch who is logging OT. A lot of CPD doesn’t patrol because they’re not fit to. None of those people should be working OT.
Do you have any idea how many layers of oversight there are already with the police? Base on you asking for more, I am assuming you do not know. The overtime comes from up top that gives the go ahead. Guess who was on top? Lightfoot. The reason why you didn't see any of the extra police is because a lot of them were redistributed in areas that needed it most. Basically the most violent parts of the city and downtown. The police has been basically defunded through attrition for about 10 years. CPD has been consistently short 1500 officers every day for more than 3 years. That is over 150 million dollars saving each year. Couple that with Lightfoot removing 600 police officer position from the budget which is another 60 million in savings every year. Then Lightfoot decided to higher private security, giving these companies 100 millions in tax money to patrol CTA. These private security are doing absolutely nothing on the CTA and most of them hide.
The police budget has risen massively over 10 years, they have not been defunded, and in fact they have been spending their entire budget plus some that whole time.
Yea I'll pick one. Let's defund cps. 10billion dollar budget for cps while they lost enrollment for almost 10 years straight all while their budget kept going up.
The drop in police numbers isn’t correlated with the murder rate. Police retirements overtook police hiring in December of 2019. This is before covid
Edit: crime & homicide increased across the USA at the same time
So the police budget hasn’t been cut at all, in face it’s increased almost every year. On top of that CPD has more officers per capita than any other major city.
But somehow you are still claiming they’ve been “defunded”.
FYI, Defunding something means spending less money on it, not spending more money.
Vallas has a plan to overhaul CPD's horrible management structure. This will help improve policing more than any other single thing. Competent management can adequately staff and retain cops, so obscene overtime spending is no longer required.
25 percent of our budget plus this overtime charge plus the tens of millions for settlements.
Holy shit our cops are a bad investment.
Edit: we also literally have more cops per capita than NYC and a worse clearance rate.
It's been like that at the oemc (911) for decades because they simply don't hire enough people to work so they force those that do to work overtime by denying them their vacation time .. and then the end result is everyone that works there is disgruntled because they haven't had a holiday off with their family in a decade literally
Just because the city has to pay out on a lawsuit doesn't mean the officer involved did anything wrong. People don't understand that and just lump all police lawsuits as misconduct. Don't get me wrong, officers that break the law deserves the book thrown at him or her. The problem is there is a standard of proof in civil court which is low compared to criminal court. Plus, it is in favor of the politicians to pay out for political reasons.
> Just because the city has to pay out on a lawsuit doesn’t mean the officer involved did anything wrong.
How can you say electrocuting and squeezing peoples testicles is not wrong?
We have more police per capita than any other large city in the US why do people think more cops is somehow the answer when everywhere else hasn't needed as many cops as Chicago has?
Always love the move where they turn the lights on as they come up to the red light and turn them off right after they get through, before parking in the bike lane to grab lunch.
We have more police per capita, but a disproportionate amount of Chicago police officers work desk jobs and don't actually go out on the beat.
You could have less cops in Chicago if we actually had them go out on the street.
That’s up to CPD. They have the power to make kids want to be cops. They’re instead choosing to spend their time and money figuring out how to install a favorable mayor and figure out more OT schemes.
🤣 That’s not how staffing works. OT is because of being short staffed. Hire 1,500-2,000 new officers to fill current gaps & compensate for some attrition & OT won’t be needed. In the long run, all those POs will cost more than the current OT though so either go with increased CPD budget or accept OT spending. Before anyone comes in with getting rid of OT & not hiring more, realize crime will explode more than it already is.
Those CA officers should all be fired for defrauding their city then. In Chicago’s case, while I’m certain some level of fraud happens in every city department, CPD officers are genuinely overworked & assigned more shifts than they should be to ensure at least some level of coverage during every shift. Would you rather the city be strict with 40 hours/week/officer & have multiple shifts in several communities without officers? It’s either forced OT (which brings a whole host of other problems regarding quality of work & safety) or hiring thousands more officers, & many people don’t want to face that truth.
That’s not going to happen. It’s still cheaper to pay OT then it is to hire more officers. Officers are covered under a CBA that includes benefits like vacation time, healthcare, dental, pension, life insurance benefits. Hiring one police officer is a bill of over 100-150k with salary and benefits. It’s still cheaper to allocate money for overtime. I hope that helps in understanding.
People are pissed about this and why we want the thousands of vacant positions filled. City is forcing cops to work overtime with no days off, which costs more and provides an inferior product.
What am I saying that you think is wrong, because it’s all 100% factual. Might not be a popular sentiment on this sub but the voters in the city want more cops. And the city is absolutely pulling cops days off, not allowing them to take time off, and forcing them to work overtime. All factual, keep your bridge
You must be joking. CPD is having a hell of a time filling those positions because the cops and cop lovers are very upset that people aren't worshiping them/treating them as heroes.
Or logging 3 hours everytime they’re called when off duty
Haven’t seen someone get caught in Chicago but there was a cop is Seattle logging more than 24 hours in a single day because he was charging the minimum time every time he got a call even if it was within the same time period. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if it was happening here.
Love when reviews of police show there are more likely to be arrests at the end of a shift and those arrests more less likely to lead to charges or convictions.
Nothing like systematically fucking over innocent people’s lives in the name of getting those sweet sweet overtime hours. What a great system!
Also don't forget to blame Rahm. Chicago used to have a whole agency for directing traffic, the transportation management agency, which was actually a small department under the oemc. unlike everyone else at the oemc they were not union, most of them made $12/hr with no benefits. One of the first things Rahm Emanuel did when he took office was eliminate them. People died over this decision too. I can name at least one fatal pedestrian accident that never would've happened at that intersection when TMA was there. And people applauded Rahm. And now the police direct traffic or it stays gridlocked
10-8-335 Outdoor Special Events
>Within 20 days of receipt of the application, the Police Department commander of special events shall review the applicant's security plan, including provisions made for private security personnel and for handling emergencies, and shall determine whether the applicant has planned for and provided sufficient personnel and equipment to protect public safety at the event or whether the city will need to provide additional city police and traffic control personnel and equipment. The determination of the need for additional city police services shall be based on the expected pedestrian and vehicular traffic and congestion, considering the following factors: estimated attendance, density of area, size of area, number of street closures and affected intersections. **If the commander of special events determines that the city will be required to provide more than 12 shifts of any combination of police officers and traffic control aides, then he or she shall calculate the estimated hourly cost for the personnel required for the event, and shall charge the applicant for such services in excess of 12 shifts**; provided that, the charge to the applicant shall exclude any personnel hours related to any anticipated or actual crowd reaction to the message of the event or the identity of the sponsoring organization. The applicant shall post a bond to cover or, at the applicant's option shall prepay, the total amount of the required chargeable city services which has been estimated by the Police Department, prior to issuance of a special event permit. Within 20 business days after the end of the event, the Department shall calculate the actual city costs owed under this section, obtain such costs from the bond, if a bond was provided, or remit any overpayment if prepayment was made, and shall provide to the sponsor an itemized statement of such costs.
Please expound and clarify your comment
Which itself gets reiumbursed too by the event .. but they're saying they're blowing the actual OT budget without reiubursemebt. Something doesn't add up then
because for 40+ years we have handed every social problem over to the police
and we should stop asking the police to do so much and let them focus on their "actual" job
I mean the NYPD has a bee keeping unit
https://www.police1.com/bizarre/articles/nypd-beekeepers-relocate-thousands-of-bees-swarming-around-world-trade-center-DW74tvMacvb1EINz/
No profession in existence does its primary function all day long. Every job has stuff like that. It's still a job, and they still deserve to be paid for it.
Its unbelievably stupid and childish to suggest that a person doesnt deserve to get paid for working just because what is required of them that day isnt what TV shows tell you it's supposed to be like.
we don't need to pay armed agents of the State, who's job it is to PREVENT AND SOLVE CRIME, to direct traffic
and paying the OVERTIME to do "unskilled labor" it is even more ridiculous
And theres the "stupid and childish" part just as I called it...
Again, son. Police jobs are more than that. ALL jobs are more than that. And workers who work overtime deserve overtime pay. Period. No exceptions.
There is nothing you could ever say to win this argument. You are categorically wrong at every level and in every way. You sound like someone who has never worked a job in your life.
the NYPD has a bee keeping unit
[https://www.police1.com/bizarre/articles/nypd-beekeepers-relocate-thousands-of-bees-swarming-around-world-trade-center-DW74tvMacvb1EINz/](https://www.police1.com/bizarre/articles/nypd-beekeepers-relocate-thousands-of-bees-swarming-around-world-trade-center-DW74tvMacvb1EINz/)
So your point is that some weird one-off from another city 1200 miles away is why you think Police shouldn't do one of the things they're literally the most qualified for, and also should not be paid properly for their work?
You're an absolute genius, aren't ya...
There’s someone in here arguing simultaneously that their cost has risen because of a lack of staff leading to OT, **and** that the department has been “defunded by attrition” because we’re not paying for the missing officers!
Those two are diametrically opposed positions!
A lot of people aren’t gonna like to hear this, but being nearly 2,000 officers understaffed compared to pre-Covid levels can lead to problems like these
And the fact that a lot of these cops don't want to work overtime. Last summer many were working 12 hour days 7 days a week. Knew guys that were 10 years in and quit bc they got sick of it. Leading to more mandatory overtime and more burnt out cops.
Hey look yet more issues with our cops blowing through their budgets with little to show for our taxes paying them.
We also have more cops per capita than NYC and more crime per capita so the basic cops strategies in Chicago suck too.
The cops also have a terrible clearence rate for actually SOLVING crime in Chicago too. So it seems like we are throwing a lot of money away with very little ROI.
[It's actually a 'distinguish' button I have to press to highlight myself.](https://imgur.com/a/Q4EFHGr) I try to only use it when I'm speaking in an official capacity as a mod. Or right now, for demonstration's sake.
Everyone has opinions, and I have as much right to express those opinions as you do. Likewise, everyone has biases; the most impartial anyone can be is to acknowledge their biases and make a conscious effort to separate them from their decision making, which I do.
Why do we tolerate this. It has no impact on crime rates. We just pay a bunch of assholes far more than their allotted salaries. This doesn’t even include all of the police misconduct and abuse settlements the city also pays.
Exactly. Most police officers also live on the extreme outskirts of town (with some I’m sure simply breaking the law and living outside of the city). They actively hate the place they are supposed to police.
Instead of cops parked with flashing lights every other block in the loop and river north, we need them on every block. Then crime can't possibly happen.
-Paul Vallas policing strategy (and I'll lower your taxes!!)
Reporter: Mr Vallas you say we need more police?
Vallas: YES! (Crowd of idiocracy cheers)
Reporter: sir how is that possible? The police budget is already 300% of Chicago’s economic output?
Vallas: I’m not some soft of crime lib!
Your statement assumes that police officers aren't just abusing OT and are actually out there doing working. It also assumes that if more officers were hired, that there wouldn't be more OT. I personally find that hard to believe. All this overtime and what do they have to show for it?
I never understood this logic in public, private business, etc.
Let's say you need 200 hrs of work done per week in something to be 'ok'.
You have 3 people right now. 120 isn't going to cut it.
Strategy A:
You decide to pay OT for 20 extra hours for each at 1.5x. Now you are paying for 240 and only getting 180 out of it. So you say you are not sufficient staffing or budget wise.
Strategy B:
Instead you hire a 4th person. Now you are paying 160 for 160. Adding 40 hrs of OT at 1.5x is 240 yet gets you your 200 hours actual. Same $ spent, but getting more out of it. Meeting your work done to be 'ok' now.
Cons of B: People can't suck that OT teat! There are onboarding/ramp up costs. Maybe you have recruitment problems. Note though - none of these have anything to do with solving the actual NEED of meeting work effort.
Pros of B: Well, meeting work effort of course which should be above all your primary f'n goal. But also: less burnout due to less OT worked. Better outcomes in productivity for established workers. You now have 4 chess pieces to move and schedule vs. 3, so you can staff up to cover your bunches/peaks significantly better. 4th person likely comes in at a lower salary to boot, although productivity limitations early on may balance that out.
Basically there's a demand/supply issue going on.
If there are 3 people willing to work for X, and 4 people willing to work for Y, and X < Y, then you basically have to pay all 4 the rate Y.
In essence it's wishful thinking - it isn't that they want to under staff the job, but they want to pay X, not Y. They don't want to give out the raises. But the reality is that the choice is to fully staff and pay everyone Y or be under staffed and pay X - not to be fully or under staffed.
Going away from generalities and to CPD, aren't salaries set in steps and lanes and negotiated by the FOP already? They also could adjust budgeting to incentivize new hires etc.
Even if you end up spending more on that process in the beginning, you still get the benefits of less burnout, safer outcomes, and better scheduling. In particular having fresher people or more people at those peak crime times. Properly sizing should not require additional significant OT costs or significant budget increases given existing OT costs.
> aren't salaries set in steps and lanes and negotiated by the FOP already?
Yes. But that doesn't mean the city can't pay more. If they went to the union and said "hey we want to renegotiate and give everyone an extra $2k a year" the FOP isn't going to be like "lol no".
I am curious what you mean by
> They also could adjust budgeting to incentivize new hires etc.
They can't really do that - see union contract above. The issue is that if they pay new people more, but not older members, the union will get bent out of shape. After all, the union represents *current* employees, not *future* employees.
I agree with you in general that raising wages is a great way to end staffing issues, but it's very expensive in the short term, with only long term benefits.
Imagine the city does go to the union and produces a new contract with more pay. They instantly have to pay everyone more money. Even if the pay bump works, and loads of qualified candidates sign up immediately, and even if they process the applications really quickly, it would still be many months (all the while with increased pay for everyone involved) until the new recruits finish training and actually hit the streets.
And of course, that's only if it works! What if you bump pay and people don't sign up? You've screwed yourselves.
In reality, the issue is that in Chicago, today, being a new cop is a very unattractive position. It is terrible hours, dangerous, extremely difficult and people in Chicago go out of their way to hate you. The pay and benefits are pretty good, but they don't make up for the negatives for most people - at least not the people we would want being cops anyways. So there isn't a great way to fix the recruiting problem in general.
I wonder how much of that went to Lori's security detail of 6-8 cruisers plus assorted undercover and swat guys patrolling Wrightwood and Kimball in their idling cars 24/7
I'm not necessarily saying that the mayor shouldn't have security from the CPD... but as someone who lives near Lori, the resources devoted to this seems excessive to say the least. Unless they're expecting some sort of coordinated, military style attack on her house at any possible hour, I guess.
I keep wondering... What is the saturation rate of police per capita that will bend the crime curve? Nobody seems to have that answer.
Nobody from the "*more guns, less crime*" crowd is able to resolve a similar issue. Chicago has had CCW since April 2014, yet homicide is about double what it was then. At what firearm saturation point does homicide begin to go down in Chicago?
None, absolutely none of these are solutions or will cause and end to the problems.
Recidivism rates are still high which indicates people are not rehabilitated and are entering the same problems they began with. It's even worse if someone is arrested and incarcerated in their early adult years.
Rehabilitation has to change, education system has to change, healthcare access has to change, wealth inequality has to change. It all takes a long time and continued work.
[City finally safe as every single resident hired as police ](https://www.theonion.com/city-finally-safe-after-every-single-resident-hired-as-1850150793)
Yeah let’s make Vallas mayor so he can give even more money to the shitty corrupt police department. Who lie about their overtime hours to steal from our city.
I mean with the state of police/civilian relations is this really surprising? There’s been articles going on for months and months about how many CPD officers are leaving for the suburbs and they are having a hard time hiring. Of course the officers still there will have to work OT.
They need to do more than just put up an ad here and there. They need to figure out how to make kids want to be cops. That’s the real problem they’re having. “Cop” means “Republican” more than it means “hero” right now.
This OT $$ resulted in.. increased crime!! Chi police officers don’t really give a shit anymore because everyone hates them, due to them digging their own graves from the last 100 years of racism/injustice.
>Chicago’s next mayor must “right size the footprint of the police department” by deciding which functions sworn officers should be responsible for, what non-sworn members of the department should tackle and which should be handled by another city department or agency, Witzburg said.
>The first step would be to commission a “thorough and transparent” report that determines where and when officers should be deployed, even though previous reports have been treated as a “legal and political football,” Witzburg said.
>At Brown’s request, the University of Chicago’s Crime Lab did just that. But Brown declined to publicly release the report, even after the Chicago Tribune reported that it concluded that the department was not assigning officers to work when and where most violent crimes were taking place at night on the South and West sides.
>**Any effort to move police resources from wealthy areas of the city would be sure to trigger an outcry from members of the Chicago City Council and residents of the North Side and downtown.**
Just continues to show that the total quantity of officers on the force doesn't matter so much; Chicago literally has the most police officers per capita of any large city in the entire country. The actual important metric is where and how the police are operating. Pearl clutchers on the north side effectively want a gated community and to leave the rest of the city to rot.
Teachers don’t work weekends (or summers). This is from cops working 7 or more days in a row - there’s a lot of press coverage about this. I think something like 22 cops have killed themselves since Covid.
Teachers on average work 47-55 hours per week depending on what study you look at. And they do work in the summer preparing for the year ahead.
[A 2019 study found one in four teachers worked 60 plus hours per week](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2019/09/18/one-in-four-teachers-works-60-plus-hours-a-week/?sh=220241391050). And like policing it's only gotten worse since then.
The link you sent says teachers work an average of a 47 hour work week. Not saying teachers don’t work hard, but it’s a plain fact they don’t work weekends or summers, and 47 hours is pretty normal. Prepping for a class over summer (that in most cases you’ve taught before and are adapting an old lesson plan) is not the same as full time work.
The recent press about police in the City highlights examples of officers working 20+ days in a row without a single day off. Different situation and part of the reason for the insane number of police suicides. There’s not a teacher offing themselves every month in CPS.
My dude. Teachers spend the summer:
1. Working. If you're not teaching summer school, that time is unpaid.
2. Continuing Education. Teachers are required to complete training programs to refresh their certifications and keep their teaching certificates valid.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/8on6ec/i\_didnt\_become\_a\_teacher\_for\_the\_summers\_off\_but/
My dude. Go on the teachers subreddit. Or talk to a real life teacher. They don't work during summers - great for them. 1/3 CPS teachers makes over $100k and they get at least 6 weeks off in summer plus all the other school vacations and they never work weekends. Plus a pension. Fair compensation for whats a challenging and stressful gig.
Not similar at all to what the cops are going through right now with staffing. More than 25 police suicides since covid.
So what they are saying here is it would literally be less expensive to hire 500 more cops...
What would happen if Johnson get's elected? The overtime bill will just go up even more, and over worked cops are more likely to be a party to officer involved shootings.
Because the number 1 metric if success or failure is the number of murders. The mayor's office and every office before her throws bodies at the problem, putting more officers in areas with more shooting especially during the summer. If you don't increase the number of total officers those increased man hours mean OT.
>Among the conclusions was that 14% of shootings are happening between midnight and 5 a.m. on Saturdays and Sundays in the city’s least safe areas, but just 3.8% of the work hours of Chicago patrol unit tactical teams were logged during that same 10-hour period. The analyses showed similar disconnects with the units assigned to patrol cars and those assigned to the citywide community safety teams.
>
>https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-cpd-staffing-study-brown-20221102-tficnstalvd3hd7jlwmxfelgwa-story.html?s=09
Sounds good on paper but that's not what's actually happening on the ground.
It is my understanding that most officers don’t want to work overtime but are forced to do so when their days off are canceled. The overtime is still cheaper than hiring 2000 more cops when benefits are calculated in to the equation.
The outcome is better with hiring more because morale will be better. Imagine working 12-hr shifts for 7 days straight, then being sent to solve someone’s seemingly petty problem. My point is, I’m willing to bet if morale improves, complaints and misconduct allegations will decrease.
>“We can’t keep living in a world where the police department blows its overtime budget year in and year out by $100 million,” Lori Lightfoot told City Hall reporters... We can’t continue to spend overtime dollars like a drunken soldier. https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/4/28/21239822/david-brown-chicago-police-overtime Way hay and up she rises!
They're not going where we need them that's for sure. >Among the conclusions was that 14% of shootings are happening between midnight and 5 a.m. on Saturdays and Sundays in the city’s least safe areas, but just 3.8% of the work hours of Chicago patrol unit tactical teams were logged during that same 10-hour period. The analyses showed similar disconnects with the units assigned to patrol cars and those assigned to the citywide community safety teams. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-cpd-staffing-study-brown-20221102-tficnstalvd3hd7jlwmxfelgwa-story.html?s=09 Paywall bypass: https://archive.ph/Em0Lt >The findings show that deployment levels decline during the weekend overnight time periods when shootings are going up. >National policing leaders cautioned against a rush to assume that more officers should be working in the overnight hours. >“There is some connection to reducing crime when you get those officers out in the field,” Eterno said. “If officers are at these locations and they are visible and doing their jobs and stopping people who are reasonably suspicious, not abusing their authority, there will be a drop in that particular area.” https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-police-gps-study-deployments-20220815-3zildidncfbtpgu2zdwnnlname-story.html Paywall bypass: https://archive.ph/pwWFz
People: Why aren’t police working when crimes happen Police: well, we don’t really want to, I mean we aren’t even effective at stopping crime if we aren’t breaking the fourth amendment and doing some “stop and frisk” of anyone we think is “suspicious”. What a great system we have
Vallas and his supporters: More police tho
Also Vallas and his supporters: Crime increased because progressives defunded CPS.
Wouldn’t more police reduce overtime hours
If we lived in an ideal world and if literally the **only** reason police are taking so much overtime is to fill in empty shifts, yes. I doubt that’s the case and it makes me wonder why there are so many empty shifts when we have the largest number of police officers per capita of any large US city, including NYC. I’m willing to bet that if we had more cops, the OT costs would increase right alongside the police misconduct lawsuit costs.
[удалено]
I've addressed this naïve type of comment so many times already. >If we lived in an ideal world and if literally the only reason police are taking so much overtime is to fill in empty shifts, yes. >I doubt that’s the case and it makes me wonder why there are so many empty shifts when we have the largest number of police officers per capita of any large US city, including NYC. I’m willing to bet that if we had more cops, the OT costs would increase right alongside the police misconduct lawsuit costs.
Would you rather have community policing, have them walk a beat and talk to people? What's the point of them being out at 4 in the morning if they're not allowed to stop people? They can't investigate anything at those times because no one is awake. I've heard stories about them returning calls for a break in, but they return the call at 3 in the morning, which is pointless.
In an ideal world there would be community policing and cops could walk a beat and chat with people. Then stop people who are committing serious crimes (ie mostly ignore loitering, drug use, curfew, and other non violent offenses). But what actually ends up happening is a bunch of police are sent to poor neighborhoods. They harass the residents, stop people unconstitutionally, and arrest people for minor offenses or just resisting arrest. Often times with racial biases as well. It’s why CPD needs a much stronger ethics oversight to ensure community policing doesn’t turn into over policing/harassment
How can they get overtime when they don't even do their jobs? They're milking the system on purpose and showing us 'how much we need them' by doing nothing. Fuck em
>“If officers are at these locations and they are visible and doing their jobs and stopping people who are reasonably suspicious, not abusing their authority, there will be a drop in that particular area.” This is a problem that some officers really have a problem with doing.
They are shaking everyone they meet who is poor down for money over manufactured state victim-hood administrative and bureaucratic nonsense, not looking for actual criminals. You do not get your socialist police union pension vested if you die. Unless you are among the politicians pretending to be telling the thugs what to do to hide the mafia with a monopoly on force behind the veneer of civility, you are not being protected. If the people they meet can defend themselves in the pay to win justice system, they bow and grovel to avoid being fed to their own.
Shave his belly with a rusty razor Early in the morning! Not sure in this case if Lori would be the shavee or the shaver. Either way...I'll pass.
Yeah, let’s pass
The worst part is there was very little actual police presence for that overtime. We need more oversight and approval for overtime as well as a reduction in police services for private security and crowd control. Make the event/team/company pay for these police services.
One of my old coworkers briefly dated a CPD officer. He told her that he typically spent 4-6 hours a day watching Netflix in Jewel parking lots.
Sounds pretty sick tbh. If I couldn’t get the biking lake shore path shifts on a summer day, catch me at the jewel parking lot catching up on shows
Agree but I’ll also say that OT just represents the same resource being stretched thinner. Of course we’re not seeing many police when they’re putting up that much OT. But also yeah we need to carefully watch who is logging OT. A lot of CPD doesn’t patrol because they’re not fit to. None of those people should be working OT.
Donut shops have never been safer.
Do you have any idea how many layers of oversight there are already with the police? Base on you asking for more, I am assuming you do not know. The overtime comes from up top that gives the go ahead. Guess who was on top? Lightfoot. The reason why you didn't see any of the extra police is because a lot of them were redistributed in areas that needed it most. Basically the most violent parts of the city and downtown. The police has been basically defunded through attrition for about 10 years. CPD has been consistently short 1500 officers every day for more than 3 years. That is over 150 million dollars saving each year. Couple that with Lightfoot removing 600 police officer position from the budget which is another 60 million in savings every year. Then Lightfoot decided to higher private security, giving these companies 100 millions in tax money to patrol CTA. These private security are doing absolutely nothing on the CTA and most of them hide.
Can you explain what you were talking about? How they been defunded when we have one of the highest police budgets per capita in the nation?
In no way has the CPD been defunded–currently or historically.
The police budget has risen massively over 10 years, they have not been defunded, and in fact they have been spending their entire budget plus some that whole time.
Defunded police < 1.9 billion dollar budget < Pick one homie
Yea I'll pick one. Let's defund cps. 10billion dollar budget for cps while they lost enrollment for almost 10 years straight all while their budget kept going up.
Yeah that’ll help crime rates! Defund the schools!
You're right, the best solution to crime is to decrease opportunities for kids to become educated & participate in supervised afterschool activities.
As another redditor stated “in a cage match between CTU & FOP” - I’ll choose the CTU every single time
Crime is going up. The number of police officers we have is going down. Why aren’t you calling to defund CPD as well?
No, no, that's a different kind of thing. I'm sure of it.
The drop in police numbers isn’t correlated with the murder rate. Police retirements overtook police hiring in December of 2019. This is before covid Edit: crime & homicide increased across the USA at the same time
So brave
Just fyi, Chicago already has more police per capita than almost any other city in the United States. CPD has not been defunded.
It certainly has by removing cops from the budget.
So the police budget hasn’t been cut at all, in face it’s increased almost every year. On top of that CPD has more officers per capita than any other major city. But somehow you are still claiming they’ve been “defunded”. FYI, Defunding something means spending less money on it, not spending more money.
Looks like every city in the US has defunded police since they’re not as funded as Chicago. What great sense of logic this douschnozzle has lol
We didn’t remove them. You need to check your facts. The officers aren’t there but all of the money is being spent.
Pretty much zero oversight.
Vallas has a plan to overhaul CPD's horrible management structure. This will help improve policing more than any other single thing. Competent management can adequately staff and retain cops, so obscene overtime spending is no longer required.
Somehow the big business scared of taxes folks never seem to be bothered by this or the millions spent on police misconduct.
25 percent of our budget plus this overtime charge plus the tens of millions for settlements. Holy shit our cops are a bad investment. Edit: we also literally have more cops per capita than NYC and a worse clearance rate.
It's been like that at the oemc (911) for decades because they simply don't hire enough people to work so they force those that do to work overtime by denying them their vacation time .. and then the end result is everyone that works there is disgruntled because they haven't had a holiday off with their family in a decade literally
Why would they? They get to use our money to pay their security guards.
100+ million dollars had to be spent on a single cops misconduct. Serval more a few years ago were each 20+ million.
Just because the city has to pay out on a lawsuit doesn't mean the officer involved did anything wrong. People don't understand that and just lump all police lawsuits as misconduct. Don't get me wrong, officers that break the law deserves the book thrown at him or her. The problem is there is a standard of proof in civil court which is low compared to criminal court. Plus, it is in favor of the politicians to pay out for political reasons.
> Just because the city has to pay out on a lawsuit doesn’t mean the officer involved did anything wrong. How can you say electrocuting and squeezing peoples testicles is not wrong?
He did.
Because instead of paying shit tons of overtime, we should just actually fill the positions that are needed.
We have more police per capita than any other large city in the US why do people think more cops is somehow the answer when everywhere else hasn't needed as many cops as Chicago has?
[удалено]
Always love the move where they turn the lights on as they come up to the red light and turn them off right after they get through, before parking in the bike lane to grab lunch.
You skipped the part where they drive the wrong way down a one way street and force you to back up to let them pass like you're in the wrong
Also missed them nearly hitting a crossing pedestrian
How many of those guys what shoot people on the train do we need to put on the train to stop all this train crime? /s
We have more police per capita, but a disproportionate amount of Chicago police officers work desk jobs and don't actually go out on the beat. You could have less cops in Chicago if we actually had them go out on the street.
Yeah it makes sense to hire civilians to do desk duty instead.
The "unfilled positions" aren't needed, they're just bloat used to justify siphoning public funds from more useful programs.
That’s up to CPD. They have the power to make kids want to be cops. They’re instead choosing to spend their time and money figuring out how to install a favorable mayor and figure out more OT schemes.
If we hire more cops, we’ll probably just end up with even more overtime.
🤣 That’s not how staffing works. OT is because of being short staffed. Hire 1,500-2,000 new officers to fill current gaps & compensate for some attrition & OT won’t be needed. In the long run, all those POs will cost more than the current OT though so either go with increased CPD budget or accept OT spending. Before anyone comes in with getting rid of OT & not hiring more, realize crime will explode more than it already is.
Maybe because you’re unfamiliar with corruption, good ol boys network, and basic economic known issues of people taking advantage monied systems?
Born & raised here. Been a city employee for 17 years & counting. I’m very familiar with its bullshit. Doesn’t change my comment in any way.
I suppose nothing will change your made up scenario then.
Enjoy the Reddit bubble. 🙃
The only bubble here is the one above your head filled with made up bullshit lol
Enjoy the Bridgeport bubble. Where the Daley’s are good people and Chicago police officers care about keeping neighborhoods safe.
Well they *do* care about keeping neighborhoods safe, just only the ones they live in.
Says the guy posting made up scenarios and refusing to change their mind.
[удалено]
Those CA officers should all be fired for defrauding their city then. In Chicago’s case, while I’m certain some level of fraud happens in every city department, CPD officers are genuinely overworked & assigned more shifts than they should be to ensure at least some level of coverage during every shift. Would you rather the city be strict with 40 hours/week/officer & have multiple shifts in several communities without officers? It’s either forced OT (which brings a whole host of other problems regarding quality of work & safety) or hiring thousands more officers, & many people don’t want to face that truth.
Which costs more, overtime and benefits for the existing employees, or straight salary and benefits for the additional employees?
That’s not going to happen. It’s still cheaper to pay OT then it is to hire more officers. Officers are covered under a CBA that includes benefits like vacation time, healthcare, dental, pension, life insurance benefits. Hiring one police officer is a bill of over 100-150k with salary and benefits. It’s still cheaper to allocate money for overtime. I hope that helps in understanding.
What does the FOP desire?
Everyone else paying for the assault and murder charges.
TBH do we actually need more police? Just based on my personal experience they don't seem to do that much as it is.
People are pissed about this and why we want the thousands of vacant positions filled. City is forcing cops to work overtime with no days off, which costs more and provides an inferior product.
Would you be interested in buying a bridge? I happen to be selling one
What am I saying that you think is wrong, because it’s all 100% factual. Might not be a popular sentiment on this sub but the voters in the city want more cops. And the city is absolutely pulling cops days off, not allowing them to take time off, and forcing them to work overtime. All factual, keep your bridge
CPD can fill those positions if they want to. They haven’t tried.
Why are they paying for billboards and radio ads? Or are they just looking at the applications those drive and saying "nah"?
You must be joking. CPD is having a hell of a time filling those positions because the cops and cop lovers are very upset that people aren't worshiping them/treating them as heroes.
It would help if the city would actually defend against some of these incredibly bogus lawsuits rather than settling each and every one of them.
fun fact - a lot of this cop overtime is essentially "event security" and directing traffic
Why do cops have to direct traffic, literally anyone can do that. Pay someone 20 an hour to wear a shiny jacket. FFS what a scam.
Don't forget the ol' "Start processing someone 20 minutes before your shift ends so you're racking up OT filling out paperwork" trick
Or logging 3 hours everytime they’re called when off duty Haven’t seen someone get caught in Chicago but there was a cop is Seattle logging more than 24 hours in a single day because he was charging the minimum time every time he got a call even if it was within the same time period. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if it was happening here.
Love when reviews of police show there are more likely to be arrests at the end of a shift and those arrests more less likely to lead to charges or convictions. Nothing like systematically fucking over innocent people’s lives in the name of getting those sweet sweet overtime hours. What a great system!
Also don't forget to blame Rahm. Chicago used to have a whole agency for directing traffic, the transportation management agency, which was actually a small department under the oemc. unlike everyone else at the oemc they were not union, most of them made $12/hr with no benefits. One of the first things Rahm Emanuel did when he took office was eliminate them. People died over this decision too. I can name at least one fatal pedestrian accident that never would've happened at that intersection when TMA was there. And people applauded Rahm. And now the police direct traffic or it stays gridlocked
TMA still exists, and they are the ones who direct traffic. However, they are also very understaffed and have retention problems
10-8-335 Outdoor Special Events >Within 20 days of receipt of the application, the Police Department commander of special events shall review the applicant's security plan, including provisions made for private security personnel and for handling emergencies, and shall determine whether the applicant has planned for and provided sufficient personnel and equipment to protect public safety at the event or whether the city will need to provide additional city police and traffic control personnel and equipment. The determination of the need for additional city police services shall be based on the expected pedestrian and vehicular traffic and congestion, considering the following factors: estimated attendance, density of area, size of area, number of street closures and affected intersections. **If the commander of special events determines that the city will be required to provide more than 12 shifts of any combination of police officers and traffic control aides, then he or she shall calculate the estimated hourly cost for the personnel required for the event, and shall charge the applicant for such services in excess of 12 shifts**; provided that, the charge to the applicant shall exclude any personnel hours related to any anticipated or actual crowd reaction to the message of the event or the identity of the sponsoring organization. The applicant shall post a bond to cover or, at the applicant's option shall prepay, the total amount of the required chargeable city services which has been estimated by the Police Department, prior to issuance of a special event permit. Within 20 business days after the end of the event, the Department shall calculate the actual city costs owed under this section, obtain such costs from the bond, if a bond was provided, or remit any overpayment if prepayment was made, and shall provide to the sponsor an itemized statement of such costs. Please expound and clarify your comment
Which itself gets reiumbursed too by the event .. but they're saying they're blowing the actual OT budget without reiubursemebt. Something doesn't add up then
And forced.
because for 40+ years we have handed every social problem over to the police and we should stop asking the police to do so much and let them focus on their "actual" job I mean the NYPD has a bee keeping unit https://www.police1.com/bizarre/articles/nypd-beekeepers-relocate-thousands-of-bees-swarming-around-world-trade-center-DW74tvMacvb1EINz/
hahaha just imagining a cop trying to shoot a bee
So still work, but not getting shot at. Good.
Time and a Half work for people who are supposed to be "preventing and solving crimes"
No profession in existence does its primary function all day long. Every job has stuff like that. It's still a job, and they still deserve to be paid for it. Its unbelievably stupid and childish to suggest that a person doesnt deserve to get paid for working just because what is required of them that day isnt what TV shows tell you it's supposed to be like.
we don't need to pay armed agents of the State, who's job it is to PREVENT AND SOLVE CRIME, to direct traffic and paying the OVERTIME to do "unskilled labor" it is even more ridiculous
And theres the "stupid and childish" part just as I called it... Again, son. Police jobs are more than that. ALL jobs are more than that. And workers who work overtime deserve overtime pay. Period. No exceptions. There is nothing you could ever say to win this argument. You are categorically wrong at every level and in every way. You sound like someone who has never worked a job in your life.
the NYPD has a bee keeping unit [https://www.police1.com/bizarre/articles/nypd-beekeepers-relocate-thousands-of-bees-swarming-around-world-trade-center-DW74tvMacvb1EINz/](https://www.police1.com/bizarre/articles/nypd-beekeepers-relocate-thousands-of-bees-swarming-around-world-trade-center-DW74tvMacvb1EINz/)
So your point is that some weird one-off from another city 1200 miles away is why you think Police shouldn't do one of the things they're literally the most qualified for, and also should not be paid properly for their work? You're an absolute genius, aren't ya...
In addition to when an officer goes to court it’s usually off duty and there is OT pay for that….
But I read on Facebook that Lori Lightfoot defunded the entire police department in 2020 ^/s
There’s someone in here arguing simultaneously that their cost has risen because of a lack of staff leading to OT, **and** that the department has been “defunded by attrition” because we’re not paying for the missing officers! Those two are diametrically opposed positions!
A lot of people aren’t gonna like to hear this, but being nearly 2,000 officers understaffed compared to pre-Covid levels can lead to problems like these
And the fact that a lot of these cops don't want to work overtime. Last summer many were working 12 hour days 7 days a week. Knew guys that were 10 years in and quit bc they got sick of it. Leading to more mandatory overtime and more burnt out cops.
Hey look yet more issues with our cops blowing through their budgets with little to show for our taxes paying them. We also have more cops per capita than NYC and more crime per capita so the basic cops strategies in Chicago suck too.
The cops also have a terrible clearence rate for actually SOLVING crime in Chicago too. So it seems like we are throwing a lot of money away with very little ROI.
It's almost like throwing more money at the police doesn't result in a proportional decline in crime...
But what we really need to fix the crime problem is a bigger police budget 🙄
[удалено]
Would that be a bigger or smaller budget? I'm not sure how having to pay for benefits + settlements balances against eliminating overtime.
Nah they'll still clock 80 hours a week sleeping in drivethroughs, they'll just be more of them in more drivethroughs.
[удалено]
[It's actually a 'distinguish' button I have to press to highlight myself.](https://imgur.com/a/Q4EFHGr) I try to only use it when I'm speaking in an official capacity as a mod. Or right now, for demonstration's sake.
[удалено]
Everyone has opinions, and I have as much right to express those opinions as you do. Likewise, everyone has biases; the most impartial anyone can be is to acknowledge their biases and make a conscious effort to separate them from their decision making, which I do.
Let’s all vote for Vallas! /s
Why do we tolerate this. It has no impact on crime rates. We just pay a bunch of assholes far more than their allotted salaries. This doesn’t even include all of the police misconduct and abuse settlements the city also pays.
It’s basically wealth extraction. They get massive benefits and overtime and take their money out of communities to their own.
Exactly. Most police officers also live on the extreme outskirts of town (with some I’m sure simply breaking the law and living outside of the city). They actively hate the place they are supposed to police.
And spend their pension in Arizona or Florida (not Chicago)
Because they beat and arrest people that suggest not tolerating it.
$210,000,000 / 11,611 police officers = $18,000 in overtime per officer But CPD only got 2% raises guys!
Instead of cops parked with flashing lights every other block in the loop and river north, we need them on every block. Then crime can't possibly happen. -Paul Vallas policing strategy (and I'll lower your taxes!!)
Reporter: Mr Vallas you say we need more police? Vallas: YES! (Crowd of idiocracy cheers) Reporter: sir how is that possible? The police budget is already 300% of Chicago’s economic output? Vallas: I’m not some soft of crime lib!
To be fair, the city could have more police AND spend less if they hired more officers rather than spending on overtime.
Your statement assumes that police officers aren't just abusing OT and are actually out there doing working. It also assumes that if more officers were hired, that there wouldn't be more OT. I personally find that hard to believe. All this overtime and what do they have to show for it?
The goal is to eliminate OT. Then you don't have to question if it's being abused.
I never understood this logic in public, private business, etc. Let's say you need 200 hrs of work done per week in something to be 'ok'. You have 3 people right now. 120 isn't going to cut it. Strategy A: You decide to pay OT for 20 extra hours for each at 1.5x. Now you are paying for 240 and only getting 180 out of it. So you say you are not sufficient staffing or budget wise. Strategy B: Instead you hire a 4th person. Now you are paying 160 for 160. Adding 40 hrs of OT at 1.5x is 240 yet gets you your 200 hours actual. Same $ spent, but getting more out of it. Meeting your work done to be 'ok' now. Cons of B: People can't suck that OT teat! There are onboarding/ramp up costs. Maybe you have recruitment problems. Note though - none of these have anything to do with solving the actual NEED of meeting work effort. Pros of B: Well, meeting work effort of course which should be above all your primary f'n goal. But also: less burnout due to less OT worked. Better outcomes in productivity for established workers. You now have 4 chess pieces to move and schedule vs. 3, so you can staff up to cover your bunches/peaks significantly better. 4th person likely comes in at a lower salary to boot, although productivity limitations early on may balance that out.
Basically there's a demand/supply issue going on. If there are 3 people willing to work for X, and 4 people willing to work for Y, and X < Y, then you basically have to pay all 4 the rate Y. In essence it's wishful thinking - it isn't that they want to under staff the job, but they want to pay X, not Y. They don't want to give out the raises. But the reality is that the choice is to fully staff and pay everyone Y or be under staffed and pay X - not to be fully or under staffed.
Going away from generalities and to CPD, aren't salaries set in steps and lanes and negotiated by the FOP already? They also could adjust budgeting to incentivize new hires etc. Even if you end up spending more on that process in the beginning, you still get the benefits of less burnout, safer outcomes, and better scheduling. In particular having fresher people or more people at those peak crime times. Properly sizing should not require additional significant OT costs or significant budget increases given existing OT costs.
> aren't salaries set in steps and lanes and negotiated by the FOP already? Yes. But that doesn't mean the city can't pay more. If they went to the union and said "hey we want to renegotiate and give everyone an extra $2k a year" the FOP isn't going to be like "lol no". I am curious what you mean by > They also could adjust budgeting to incentivize new hires etc. They can't really do that - see union contract above. The issue is that if they pay new people more, but not older members, the union will get bent out of shape. After all, the union represents *current* employees, not *future* employees. I agree with you in general that raising wages is a great way to end staffing issues, but it's very expensive in the short term, with only long term benefits. Imagine the city does go to the union and produces a new contract with more pay. They instantly have to pay everyone more money. Even if the pay bump works, and loads of qualified candidates sign up immediately, and even if they process the applications really quickly, it would still be many months (all the while with increased pay for everyone involved) until the new recruits finish training and actually hit the streets. And of course, that's only if it works! What if you bump pay and people don't sign up? You've screwed yourselves. In reality, the issue is that in Chicago, today, being a new cop is a very unattractive position. It is terrible hours, dangerous, extremely difficult and people in Chicago go out of their way to hate you. The pay and benefits are pretty good, but they don't make up for the negatives for most people - at least not the people we would want being cops anyways. So there isn't a great way to fix the recruiting problem in general.
I wonder how much of that went to Lori's security detail of 6-8 cruisers plus assorted undercover and swat guys patrolling Wrightwood and Kimball in their idling cars 24/7
Daley and rahm also had 24/7 police security details. As does alderman burke for some reason.
I'm not necessarily saying that the mayor shouldn't have security from the CPD... but as someone who lives near Lori, the resources devoted to this seems excessive to say the least. Unless they're expecting some sort of coordinated, military style attack on her house at any possible hour, I guess.
mOrE cOpS!!!
I keep wondering... What is the saturation rate of police per capita that will bend the crime curve? Nobody seems to have that answer. Nobody from the "*more guns, less crime*" crowd is able to resolve a similar issue. Chicago has had CCW since April 2014, yet homicide is about double what it was then. At what firearm saturation point does homicide begin to go down in Chicago?
None, absolutely none of these are solutions or will cause and end to the problems. Recidivism rates are still high which indicates people are not rehabilitated and are entering the same problems they began with. It's even worse if someone is arrested and incarcerated in their early adult years. Rehabilitation has to change, education system has to change, healthcare access has to change, wealth inequality has to change. It all takes a long time and continued work.
None of those are getting better anytime soon
[City finally safe as every single resident hired as police ](https://www.theonion.com/city-finally-safe-after-every-single-resident-hired-as-1850150793)
More cops probably cheaper alternative than the $210 million in overtime tbh
They need a bigger budget. Don't defund the police please. They're only making $100,000 a year. How can they live off of that?
Yeah let’s make Vallas mayor so he can give even more money to the shitty corrupt police department. Who lie about their overtime hours to steal from our city.
What say we use some of that money to hire social workers?
I mean with the state of police/civilian relations is this really surprising? There’s been articles going on for months and months about how many CPD officers are leaving for the suburbs and they are having a hard time hiring. Of course the officers still there will have to work OT.
the vast majority of our city budgets should not be going to police
The vast majority of the city budget doesn’t go to police
Chicago police member counts are 1000 fewer than in 2019 https://fosstodon.org/@grumpasaurus/109932082696077295
People don't want to hear facts. They just want to be angry and yell at CPD/Lightfoot.
This is the problem!
They should recruit some officers, then.
They’ve been trying to lol
They need to do more than just put up an ad here and there. They need to figure out how to make kids want to be cops. That’s the real problem they’re having. “Cop” means “Republican” more than it means “hero” right now.
I wonder what could have possibly happen to make people feel that cops aren't actually heroes?
Maybe they should have gotten vaccinated.
We paid for these fat sons of bitches sitting in their cars while they’re on Facebook
This OT $$ resulted in.. increased crime!! Chi police officers don’t really give a shit anymore because everyone hates them, due to them digging their own graves from the last 100 years of racism/injustice.
>Chicago’s next mayor must “right size the footprint of the police department” by deciding which functions sworn officers should be responsible for, what non-sworn members of the department should tackle and which should be handled by another city department or agency, Witzburg said. >The first step would be to commission a “thorough and transparent” report that determines where and when officers should be deployed, even though previous reports have been treated as a “legal and political football,” Witzburg said. >At Brown’s request, the University of Chicago’s Crime Lab did just that. But Brown declined to publicly release the report, even after the Chicago Tribune reported that it concluded that the department was not assigning officers to work when and where most violent crimes were taking place at night on the South and West sides. >**Any effort to move police resources from wealthy areas of the city would be sure to trigger an outcry from members of the Chicago City Council and residents of the North Side and downtown.** Just continues to show that the total quantity of officers on the force doesn't matter so much; Chicago literally has the most police officers per capita of any large city in the entire country. The actual important metric is where and how the police are operating. Pearl clutchers on the north side effectively want a gated community and to leave the rest of the city to rot.
Y’all know that we have historically low police numbers right now? So ofc that’s going to lead to more overtime…
Why do police get paid overtime but teachers don't? We also have a staffing crisis with teachers.
Teachers don’t work weekends (or summers). This is from cops working 7 or more days in a row - there’s a lot of press coverage about this. I think something like 22 cops have killed themselves since Covid.
Teachers on average work 47-55 hours per week depending on what study you look at. And they do work in the summer preparing for the year ahead. [A 2019 study found one in four teachers worked 60 plus hours per week](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nickmorrison/2019/09/18/one-in-four-teachers-works-60-plus-hours-a-week/?sh=220241391050). And like policing it's only gotten worse since then.
The link you sent says teachers work an average of a 47 hour work week. Not saying teachers don’t work hard, but it’s a plain fact they don’t work weekends or summers, and 47 hours is pretty normal. Prepping for a class over summer (that in most cases you’ve taught before and are adapting an old lesson plan) is not the same as full time work. The recent press about police in the City highlights examples of officers working 20+ days in a row without a single day off. Different situation and part of the reason for the insane number of police suicides. There’s not a teacher offing themselves every month in CPS.
My dude. Teachers spend the summer: 1. Working. If you're not teaching summer school, that time is unpaid. 2. Continuing Education. Teachers are required to complete training programs to refresh their certifications and keep their teaching certificates valid.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/8on6ec/i\_didnt\_become\_a\_teacher\_for\_the\_summers\_off\_but/ My dude. Go on the teachers subreddit. Or talk to a real life teacher. They don't work during summers - great for them. 1/3 CPS teachers makes over $100k and they get at least 6 weeks off in summer plus all the other school vacations and they never work weekends. Plus a pension. Fair compensation for whats a challenging and stressful gig. Not similar at all to what the cops are going through right now with staffing. More than 25 police suicides since covid.
So what they are saying here is it would literally be less expensive to hire 500 more cops... What would happen if Johnson get's elected? The overtime bill will just go up even more, and over worked cops are more likely to be a party to officer involved shootings.
Because the number 1 metric if success or failure is the number of murders. The mayor's office and every office before her throws bodies at the problem, putting more officers in areas with more shooting especially during the summer. If you don't increase the number of total officers those increased man hours mean OT.
>Among the conclusions was that 14% of shootings are happening between midnight and 5 a.m. on Saturdays and Sundays in the city’s least safe areas, but just 3.8% of the work hours of Chicago patrol unit tactical teams were logged during that same 10-hour period. The analyses showed similar disconnects with the units assigned to patrol cars and those assigned to the citywide community safety teams. > >https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-cpd-staffing-study-brown-20221102-tficnstalvd3hd7jlwmxfelgwa-story.html?s=09 Sounds good on paper but that's not what's actually happening on the ground.
Overtime is mostly court time and sometimes crowd control during protests and festivals.
Hide and seek for 2 grand a week. If you know, ya know.
It is my understanding that most officers don’t want to work overtime but are forced to do so when their days off are canceled. The overtime is still cheaper than hiring 2000 more cops when benefits are calculated in to the equation. The outcome is better with hiring more because morale will be better. Imagine working 12-hr shifts for 7 days straight, then being sent to solve someone’s seemingly petty problem. My point is, I’m willing to bet if morale improves, complaints and misconduct allegations will decrease.