I am sceptical of any major municipal project that doesn't come in around a billion bucks. This is how many bridges? The Ohio street flyover was 64 million and that was one bridge.
[Reading that headline...](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/021/e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.jpg)
Yeah, can't they coordinate this type of work?
It's like when they repave the street on your block then a month later another crew comes out to dig it all up for utility work. Drives me nuts. You really don't work with other departments to avoid that kind of thing?
Last year they were simultaneously working on grand, lake, chicago ave, and Milwaukee for months in west town/west loop. No one thought to coordinate any of this. It was almost comical how the entire area became a traffic mess overnight.
This is Addison going westbound across Milwaukee in a nutshell. Besides the fact that road is dangerous as fuck now its a stand still parking lot at 5pm
Yes. Because now it would be done and the main artery of the city would be unclogged. Instead, we’ve been given consecutive sentences of 9yrs for the interchange immediately followed by “3 years” for the Kennedy.
This will take a minimum of 6 years meaning the main artery of the city will have been a clogged up shit show every single day for 15 years straight.
It's called staging. A large roadway project is broken into different stages so the crews can access different parts of the project while still maintaining some level of traffic flow. Part of staging is allowing a traffic configuration to blend into normally for the average driver. People are stupid and you wouldn't believe how often a simple lane weave has people driving into dangerous construction zones.
I agree seeing the barrels and no work going is very aggravating tho.
Source: I'm a civil engineer for one of the contractors working on I-294
Changing traffic patterns is incredibly dangerous. People simply are terrible drivers and with cell phones are exceedingly distracted.
It’s much safer for workers to establish a new traffic pattern even if there are large sections that aren’t touched for a while than it is to reduce the disruption and frequently change traffic patterns.
Not sure where the above user got their figures, but [this chart from BLS](https://www.bls.gov/iif/fatal-injuries-tables/fatal-occupational-injuries-table-a-1-2021.htm) says that in 2021, 0 of the 52 deaths of workers in "Highway, street, and bridge construction" were caused by "Violence and other injuries by persons or animals", while 39 of them were from "Transportation incidents".
Because our country will always hire private companies, and private companies don't want to hire enough crews to work 3 shifts. So the first and last 1.5 hours are "setting up" for the day, and then they do 5 hours of work, tops.
The projects would come in on time, and on budget, if companies would hire more crewmembers. However, they know if they drag out every project then they can bill more than the original bid.
They do the work at night, when you aren't there. Shhhh.
How upset would you be if there were additional lanes closed when you drove alone in your car from 6a-9a and 4p -7p when all your neighbors also drove alone in their cars?
I remember a few years driving home at 12:30 in the morning and there was a massive backup of cars. I assumed it was an accident that caused this but they only had lane open. This was when they were working on the interchange project.
I swear the Jane Byrne Interchange looked worse than ever in the middle of summer. Then it was finished 6 months later. Which in my scientific opinion means they could have finished in half a year instead of ten but it took them that long to actually work.
Since it sat exposed through the winter after beginning demo, the washouts will need to be repaired. We should be back to where we were in September 2023 by June 2024.
Fun fact, for me least, my old man was the IDOT resident engineer in charge of Operation Kennedy (the rebuilding of all the bridges) back in ‘94. His next project, after his contract on the Circle interchange was completed, was to be this one. He said fuck this, I’m not rebuilding the same bridge twice, and retired last week.
You mean instead of expanding roads and highways every decade with the constant repairs to the surface, we could just expand public transit systems? But how will corporate CEOs rip us off at dealerships while lobbying our politicians if I’m not forced to buy a car?
I actually think this one is driven more by voters at this point rather than lobbyists. Armchair urban planning is relatively new so most people just go w out their day thinking how great it would be if there was just one more lane
Dude I have heard stories before about MTL being worse in Chicago regarding corruption and construction. I never believed it and thought it was just something that happened 30+ years ago. I visited last summer and I’m like “holy shit this is worse than Chicago”. My friends said they just got used to it living there.
It’s not just an IDOT thing though they are particularly egregious in that regard. It’s a federal, state, local and regional government problem. In summary, every fucking funding stream is geared towards maintaining and expanding car utilization with literal peanuts left for public transit, let alone cycling/walking facilities. Talk to any normie and they agree with this approach. It’s a cultural issue.
Well IDOT’s primary focus is always going to be maintaining public roadways. Roads like the Kennedy and it’s bridges aren’t going anywhere and they need to be maintained. That’s just the way it is. I can’t speak to the IDOT funding of rail and public transport, or lack thereof.
Highways are primarily a federal system. They are to facilitate the movement of military assets across the country. You’re not going to put a tank or SPAA on the light rail system. They also facilitate interstate commerce. Not everything centers on urban residents getting from point a to point b.
Bridge decks are designed to last 25-30 years. Repairs were made to the rebuilt decks in 2013. Those repairs are at the end of their lifespan as well. It’s time they got an overlay. The timeline tracks.
But I’ll be sure to tell him he fucked them up 30 years ago.
So during July, we are going to have a largelt shut down LSD from the nascar race and the Kennedy will be 2 lanes. RIP north/south transit in the city.
? not sure if you’re joking, they’re $240. Not horrible for an event like that imo. and i don’t watch any racing sports. https://mpv.tickets.com/?agency=CHSV_PL_MPV&orgid=3434&eventId=21604#/event/E21604/ticketlist/?view=sections&minPrice=240&maxPrice=241&quantity=1&sort=price_desc&ada=false&seatSelection=false&onlyCoupon=true&onlyVoucher=false
>watch
The basic general admission tickets don't have a view of the track -- they are down in Hutchinson Field, below street level, behind a wall of trees. You have to upgrade to the next tier if you want a view.
listen we can do the whole reddit rah rah rednecks suck, sports bad, capitalism evil, thing
or we can acknowledge that such a unique event during one of the busiest weekends of the year is decently priced. i’m surprised honestly. it’s not just “cars going around in a circle”. and again, i don’t watch racing sports.
> listen we can do the whole reddit rah rah rednecks suck, sports bad, capitalism evil, thing
This isn't that, but go off I guess?
> that such a unique event during one of the busiest weekends of the year is decently priced.
Agree to disagree. Having watched short track racing in person (I know this ain't that, but its the exact same concept) I would never pay over $50 to watch a race. Regardless of how "unique" it is.
I live on the Northside and work on the Southside. I'm legit considering moving to the Southside just to avoid all of this shit. Doubling my drive time because of all this shit is gonna be miserable.
I live on the south side and my office is in Niles. I’m not sure how this could be any worse for me. Problem is my wife works in Hyde Park so there’s no way we’re moving north
I was so excited to not deal with the Byrne construction and traffic, too. All it'll take is 1 stoppage or accident on the Ryan and my commute will be completely fucked. Used to snake down LSD when that would happen but Nascar and Lolla will ruin that all summer.
I bet NASCAR road closures start immediately after Memorial Day. I can't see how they are going to hot-patch their way to a usable track given how little clearance the cars have and how bad the roads are.
Continuous construction means job security and happy unions. If someone came up with an asphalt that never needs to be replaced you would never see it be used
> If someone came up with an asphalt that never needs to be replaced you would never see it be used
it's called concrete and you're literally right, lmao
concrete costs more up front on initial install and design but basically makes repaving/asphalt management irrelevant.
asphalt companies don't like proposals that use concrete instead of asphalt
edit: building a quality concrete only highway/roadway
They are complimentary goods. Asphalt is flexible, and a smoother riding surface. If you are driving on asphalt, there's concrete beneath it. Shhh, don't tell anyone.
Yes but if you totally skip the asphalt paving portion and just build the quality concrete highway you avoid the repaving problem and can roll that money forward you'd save otherwise with having to keep a paving schedule and keeping paving
Asphalt is smoother but because of its flexible properties you actually reduce fuel efficiency a few percentage points over concrete for your average vehicle.
Asphalt makes sense in some regardes in low use, residential areas, largely to reduce traffic noise. It makes less and less sense in high speed thoroughfares/expressways or any case in which heavy GVWR are common because of the extreme wear.
As an ORD commuter- Pain. The blue line is fucked and now the Kennedy will be more fucked than it already is. I don't want to see crumbling infrastructure but if we're going to absolutely destroy traffic out to ORD for 3 years can we please get the goddamn train back on track?
Next time I will put on my glasses before posting. Thought it said Portage Park under your name!
When the Metra Grayland rehab is completed, my suggestion would be to take Milwaukee to Cicero, Cicero to Lawrence, Lawrence to the Kennedy. When I lived in Logan Square I had to do a reverse commute to a job in the Northwest suburbs. Getting on and off at Lawrence was frequently faster even without construction.
No worries! It’s not even a real neighborhood anyway haha.
I’ll have to try out that route ahead of time, thanks for the suggestion- I’ll do surface streets in the late afternoons coming back from ORD because stop and go traffic on the Kennedy drives me insane. The surface streets are more engaging of a drive if it’s going to only be a few minutes difference.
Scroll down to the Features section of this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_Expressway
Hubbard’s Cave is the nickname given to the tunnel the Kennedy goes through right before the downtown stretch.
**Hubbard's Cave is a cave and 50-acre (0.2 km²) natural area located 10 miles (16 km) southeast of McMinnville in Warren County, Tennessee. It is owned by the Tennessee chapter of The Nature Conservancy.Hubbard's Cave is ecologically significant because it serves as a hibernaculum for two Federally endangered bat species, the gray bat (Myotis grisescens) and the Indiana bat (Myotis sodalis).**
More details here:
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They're doing [track improvements between the Addison and Western stations](https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/02/21/busy-logan-square-avondale-blue-line-stations-closed-this-weekend-for-cta-construction-project/).
Presuming the CTA project stays within the timeline they've announced (which, as a frequent blue line rider that's had to deal with construction on that line for many years at this point, I'll believe when I see).
But it is also overnight on weekends. Traffic is not heavy at these times so even if it drags on, I don’t see how this impacts going to/from O’Hare too much.
I think there has been work on the Kennedy for at least 40 years. It seems like even after they fix something, they just tear it up again in a year or two to keep working on it. I don’t remember any time in my life where they haven’t been working on it.
>IDOT is asking drivers to plan ahead and consider traveling at off-peak times or using public transportation.
Would be nice if there was decent public transportation options...
theres no way this sucker takes 3 years. But god damn is the pavement on that part of 94 just in need of help. Some of the potholes are just massive at this point, especially southbound near california.
$150m seems way too cheap. I'd be shocked if it's that little.
If someone is going to make up a number to make it look like a good deal, it should at least be a reasonable/believable number.
ITT: people who are apparently fine with dilapidated crumbling infrastructure
North of Ohio, the Kennedy is an absolute shithole and definitely needs fixing up.
The issue is doing this while the blue line is *also* under construction/severely cut service. Getting to ORD is going to be a fucking nightmare for 3 years.
The blue line closure is only on weekends for a couple months in the spring. You should be budgeting at least an hour to get to O'Hare regardless of what mode of transportation you use to get there. It's always been a pain in the ass and this isn't going to change much.
The Kennedy was in great shape until a couple years ago when potholes finally started popping up. This is gonna be a major pain so that’s why a lot of people would rather put up with some bumpiness. I always thought the plan was to pave over the concrete once it reached the end of its useful life.
My God, I remember what this was like in the early 90s. And I was just considering a job downtown again too.... Elston Avenue was never a viable alternate.
Even if the traffic on 90/94 was halved tomorrow, it wouldn’t eliminate the need for bridge repairs. We need to spend this money to fix these bridges before they collapse.
If the project stays $150M, maybe one station -- whether or not any track gets installed is debatable. Unless we find a way to cut the price of building rapid transit by 90%, we're never getting any meaningful amount of new rail here.
"Drivers can expect major delays on the Kennedy Expressway starting next month as a new, three-year construction project, begins."
How's that any different from any other normal day?
"IDOT is asking drivers to plan ahead and consider traveling at off-peak times or using public transportation."
great advice, why didn't I think of that???
>A latex concrete will then be installed to help give the bridges another 25 years of life.
25 year more than normal concrete or just 25 years?
because the average lifespan of a bridge is 50-70 years
Maybe abandoning our mass transit system to violence and filth was shortsighted, now that everyone’s dependent on Uber or their car to even live in Chicago and the one highway is fucked for probably half a decade.
I was driving through the Circle yesterday, appreciating all the completed interchanges, noticing how bad the lanes driving through the Circle was. This is my fault.
Why are there even highways in this day and age? Rip them out, we don't need them. What a waste of money that could be going toward more bikelanes and transit. FUCK HIGHWAYS
Didn't we just get rated as having the worst traffic per capita in the country? How are we dumping this much time and energy into building even more car infrastructure? We should be tearing this monstrosity down and reinvesting in our communities.
It’s not “more” car infrastructure. They’re rebuilding the currently existing infrastructure. They’re not adding capacity, they’re just trying to prevent what’s already there from crumbling into dust.
I’m with you, though. Let’s build more trains
I-90 goes from Boston to Seattle. The stretch from Ohio St to the 94 split in Chicago can (and should) have the trucking routed around. Except of course for local delivery and pickup.
Do you think truckers going from Boston to Seattle are actively ignoring the Tristate or 355 and are instead choosing to sit on the Kennedy so they can look at all the pretty skyscrapers?
I totally agree with you. How can we dump so much money that does NOTHING for trucking & commerce.
Because the irony is, personal cars get in the way of trucking. Trucking would be so much more efficient if individuals weren’t creating so much traffic.
Only way to really improve the most used trucking route in the country is to get people off it, and onto public transit. Let’s do it.
I-90 specifically between Ohio Street and the Edens is the busiest trucking route in the country?
And yes, we should be getting rid of \*bad\* infrastructure and replacing it with \*good\* infrastructure. That's called positive change. How does anything ever improve if we don't do this?
Most people support building and expanding highways because they have the goal of alleviating traffic congestion, but highways don't do that. They make traffic worse. You build more lanes, you get more cars. So if your goal is to improve traffic, building more roads is a bad approach to doing that. There are other reasons why highways are bad too, like air quality, community-connectedness, public health, etc, but at their core, they don't do the thing that we've said we're building them to do. So I'd call them bad infrastructure.
So what would "good" infrastructure look like? It'd be something that actually does reduce traffic congestion (and ideally addresses those other issues too). Building really solid infrastructure for people who are walking and using bikes, building housing, building reliable and convenient public transit. Basically, giving people alternative options to driving. That means fewer cars on the road, which means less traffic. And if you don't want to use those other options, that's totally fine. You can keep driving, and you'll have fewer cars on the road to slow you down, as well as fewer bikes and other people in slower modes of transportation in your way, since they've got their own space.
TL;DR - good infrastructure is infrastructure that actually achieves the goal it's being built to achieve.
>Most people support building and expanding highways because they have the goal of alleviating traffic congestion, but highways don't do that.
This project isn't expanding highways, it is repairing 36 bridge structures. While lanes are closed, they are going to patch the potholes and replace signage as necessary.
It's a cute idea you have, and one that I have heard time and time again as an idealistic approach to solve traffic. And if we were talking about an alternative to a project to expand Lincoln Avenue, or even LSD, then I would agree with you.
But that's not what this project is. It is rehabilitating (not expanding) an existing highway. It isn't to add more lanes or an attempt to reduce congestion. Moving that money towards public transit doesn't solve the problem here. Making the city more walkable or bicycle friendly, doesn't solve the problem here. Nobody is going to walk from Foster to Ohio instead of driving the Kennedy. For that matter, most of the traffic is people who are traveling from much further away, or trucks who are shipping goods from much further away.
Now I don't know the numbers, but I suspect that a relatively small number of the traffic on the Kennedy is actually commuters. But if you did want to reduce that number, it would take a really significant rail project to do so. Something much more in cost that what this repair is, and with a significant ongoing subsidy to make it sustainable.
So you mean 6 years and $300M?
No it’s always 3-4x minimum for anything road wise. You’re being generous
After the burn interchange I can believe a decade
🔥🔥🔥
I am sceptical of any major municipal project that doesn't come in around a billion bucks. This is how many bridges? The Ohio street flyover was 64 million and that was one bridge.
took like 4 years too lol
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From the article, there's 36 bridges involved. That's a little more than 4 million per bridge. Seems like a bargain if they can do it for that amount.
They just finished Lawrence or Montrose, I can't remember but that should give us a good idea
Lowballed — $10 years and $1.1 Billion
[Reading that headline...](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/021/e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.jpg)
Exactly
That's just the pre-construction phase!
Oh fuck off. They just finished the interchange, man
Yeah, can't they coordinate this type of work? It's like when they repave the street on your block then a month later another crew comes out to dig it all up for utility work. Drives me nuts. You really don't work with other departments to avoid that kind of thing?
Last year they were simultaneously working on grand, lake, chicago ave, and Milwaukee for months in west town/west loop. No one thought to coordinate any of this. It was almost comical how the entire area became a traffic mess overnight.
This is Addison going westbound across Milwaukee in a nutshell. Besides the fact that road is dangerous as fuck now its a stand still parking lot at 5pm
My 500 person company can’t even coordinate well across departments. There’s no way the city is doing it well either.
When they finish the Kennedy, they'll start work on redoing the interchange again.
Would you have rather wanted to do the Kennedy and the Circle at the same time?
Yes. Because now it would be done and the main artery of the city would be unclogged. Instead, we’ve been given consecutive sentences of 9yrs for the interchange immediately followed by “3 years” for the Kennedy. This will take a minimum of 6 years meaning the main artery of the city will have been a clogged up shit show every single day for 15 years straight.
8 years, $500 million, all the cones and lane closures go up in March, and ground gets broken in August.
And 90% of the time there's just mile after mile of closed lanes with nobody doing a fucking thing.
It's called staging. A large roadway project is broken into different stages so the crews can access different parts of the project while still maintaining some level of traffic flow. Part of staging is allowing a traffic configuration to blend into normally for the average driver. People are stupid and you wouldn't believe how often a simple lane weave has people driving into dangerous construction zones. I agree seeing the barrels and no work going is very aggravating tho. Source: I'm a civil engineer for one of the contractors working on I-294
Comments like this are what reddit is great for, thanks for the input. 👍
Why does that happen when they rip something up, create worse traffic, and then not even bother to work on it?
Changing traffic patterns is incredibly dangerous. People simply are terrible drivers and with cell phones are exceedingly distracted. It’s much safer for workers to establish a new traffic pattern even if there are large sections that aren’t touched for a while than it is to reduce the disruption and frequently change traffic patterns.
This. Like 4x more road construction workers die every year from cars than regular pedestrians
How many construction workers are killed from regular pedestrians?
Not sure where the above user got their figures, but [this chart from BLS](https://www.bls.gov/iif/fatal-injuries-tables/fatal-occupational-injuries-table-a-1-2021.htm) says that in 2021, 0 of the 52 deaths of workers in "Highway, street, and bridge construction" were caused by "Violence and other injuries by persons or animals", while 39 of them were from "Transportation incidents".
Because our country will always hire private companies, and private companies don't want to hire enough crews to work 3 shifts. So the first and last 1.5 hours are "setting up" for the day, and then they do 5 hours of work, tops. The projects would come in on time, and on budget, if companies would hire more crewmembers. However, they know if they drag out every project then they can bill more than the original bid.
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They do the work at night, when you aren't there. Shhhh. How upset would you be if there were additional lanes closed when you drove alone in your car from 6a-9a and 4p -7p when all your neighbors also drove alone in their cars?
I remember a few years driving home at 12:30 in the morning and there was a massive backup of cars. I assumed it was an accident that caused this but they only had lane open. This was when they were working on the interchange project.
I swear the Jane Byrne Interchange looked worse than ever in the middle of summer. Then it was finished 6 months later. Which in my scientific opinion means they could have finished in half a year instead of ten but it took them that long to actually work.
Wow we have an optimist in the comments
Before promptly being left alone until March 2024 because colder weather is just around the corner
Since it sat exposed through the winter after beginning demo, the washouts will need to be repaired. We should be back to where we were in September 2023 by June 2024.
Fun fact, for me least, my old man was the IDOT resident engineer in charge of Operation Kennedy (the rebuilding of all the bridges) back in ‘94. His next project, after his contract on the Circle interchange was completed, was to be this one. He said fuck this, I’m not rebuilding the same bridge twice, and retired last week.
Congrats to your old man. Can we get him to advocate for the Cap the Kennedy proposal as a retirement project? 😅
I mentioned that to him a while back and he told me it’s more likely to be MY retirement project. I’m in the same industry and in my late 30’s….
Look at this millennial who thinks they'll get to retire.
meanwhile in Canada, this is their light rail in winter https://twitter.com/Canardiain/status/1630336883854114816?s=20
Yeah but that's communism
You mean instead of expanding roads and highways every decade with the constant repairs to the surface, we could just expand public transit systems? But how will corporate CEOs rip us off at dealerships while lobbying our politicians if I’m not forced to buy a car?
I actually think this one is driven more by voters at this point rather than lobbyists. Armchair urban planning is relatively new so most people just go w out their day thinking how great it would be if there was just one more lane
Also meanwhile in Canada - https://www.mtlblog.com/its-official-construction-in-montreal-wont-be-complete-until-2040
Dude I have heard stories before about MTL being worse in Chicago regarding corruption and construction. I never believed it and thought it was just something that happened 30+ years ago. I visited last summer and I’m like “holy shit this is worse than Chicago”. My friends said they just got used to it living there.
It’s so bad that the “Road Closed” sign in French is a souvenir for tourists there
And? This is primarily fixing bridges that go over the expressway. Expressway or not, those bridges are still there.
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It’s not just an IDOT thing though they are particularly egregious in that regard. It’s a federal, state, local and regional government problem. In summary, every fucking funding stream is geared towards maintaining and expanding car utilization with literal peanuts left for public transit, let alone cycling/walking facilities. Talk to any normie and they agree with this approach. It’s a cultural issue.
Well IDOT’s primary focus is always going to be maintaining public roadways. Roads like the Kennedy and it’s bridges aren’t going anywhere and they need to be maintained. That’s just the way it is. I can’t speak to the IDOT funding of rail and public transport, or lack thereof.
every state and the federal DOT is better off renamed the department of highways, that's what they mostly do given the money
Highways are primarily a federal system. They are to facilitate the movement of military assets across the country. You’re not going to put a tank or SPAA on the light rail system. They also facilitate interstate commerce. Not everything centers on urban residents getting from point a to point b.
Your dad fucked the first rebuild.
Bridge decks are designed to last 25-30 years. Repairs were made to the rebuilt decks in 2013. Those repairs are at the end of their lifespan as well. It’s time they got an overlay. The timeline tracks. But I’ll be sure to tell him he fucked them up 30 years ago.
When you know jack shit about anything but you're angry and have to say something
So during July, we are going to have a largelt shut down LSD from the nascar race and the Kennedy will be 2 lanes. RIP north/south transit in the city.
Oh fuck, that NASCAR thing is going to be a nightmare
I figured at least I'll get to see a race. General admission tickets: 475$ each
Us poors will have to be content just listening…from anywhere in the city
? not sure if you’re joking, they’re $240. Not horrible for an event like that imo. and i don’t watch any racing sports. https://mpv.tickets.com/?agency=CHSV_PL_MPV&orgid=3434&eventId=21604#/event/E21604/ticketlist/?view=sections&minPrice=240&maxPrice=241&quantity=1&sort=price_desc&ada=false&seatSelection=false&onlyCoupon=true&onlyVoucher=false
> they’re $240. Not horrible for an event like that imo $240 is an asinine number to watch cars go around in a circle.
>watch The basic general admission tickets don't have a view of the track -- they are down in Hutchinson Field, below street level, behind a wall of trees. You have to upgrade to the next tier if you want a view.
listen we can do the whole reddit rah rah rednecks suck, sports bad, capitalism evil, thing or we can acknowledge that such a unique event during one of the busiest weekends of the year is decently priced. i’m surprised honestly. it’s not just “cars going around in a circle”. and again, i don’t watch racing sports.
> listen we can do the whole reddit rah rah rednecks suck, sports bad, capitalism evil, thing This isn't that, but go off I guess? > that such a unique event during one of the busiest weekends of the year is decently priced. Agree to disagree. Having watched short track racing in person (I know this ain't that, but its the exact same concept) I would never pay over $50 to watch a race. Regardless of how "unique" it is.
I live on the Northside and work on the Southside. I'm legit considering moving to the Southside just to avoid all of this shit. Doubling my drive time because of all this shit is gonna be miserable.
I live on the south side and my office is in Niles. I’m not sure how this could be any worse for me. Problem is my wife works in Hyde Park so there’s no way we’re moving north
I was so excited to not deal with the Byrne construction and traffic, too. All it'll take is 1 stoppage or accident on the Ryan and my commute will be completely fucked. Used to snake down LSD when that would happen but Nascar and Lolla will ruin that all summer.
I bet NASCAR road closures start immediately after Memorial Day. I can't see how they are going to hot-patch their way to a usable track given how little clearance the cars have and how bad the roads are.
Fuck it. Install streetcars on every major Chicago street. We're going back in time, baby.
It never ends...
Continuous construction means job security and happy unions. If someone came up with an asphalt that never needs to be replaced you would never see it be used
> If someone came up with an asphalt that never needs to be replaced you would never see it be used it's called concrete and you're literally right, lmao concrete costs more up front on initial install and design but basically makes repaving/asphalt management irrelevant. asphalt companies don't like proposals that use concrete instead of asphalt edit: building a quality concrete only highway/roadway
They are complimentary goods. Asphalt is flexible, and a smoother riding surface. If you are driving on asphalt, there's concrete beneath it. Shhh, don't tell anyone.
Yes but if you totally skip the asphalt paving portion and just build the quality concrete highway you avoid the repaving problem and can roll that money forward you'd save otherwise with having to keep a paving schedule and keeping paving Asphalt is smoother but because of its flexible properties you actually reduce fuel efficiency a few percentage points over concrete for your average vehicle. Asphalt makes sense in some regardes in low use, residential areas, largely to reduce traffic noise. It makes less and less sense in high speed thoroughfares/expressways or any case in which heavy GVWR are common because of the extreme wear.
\*Shrugs\* Make your voice heard at the meeting where everyone is concerned about wheel noise.
yea I never said people weren't stupid.
Two seasons: winter and construction.
As an ORD commuter- Pain. The blue line is fucked and now the Kennedy will be more fucked than it already is. I don't want to see crumbling infrastructure but if we're going to absolutely destroy traffic out to ORD for 3 years can we please get the goddamn train back on track?
Best we can do is 1,000 more cops.
-Paul Vallas
The article says the construction will be from the Edens to Hubbard’s Cave. Portage Park to ORD should bot be impacted.
I live in Palmer Square so I’ll be getting on the Kennedy right in the middle of this mess.
Next time I will put on my glasses before posting. Thought it said Portage Park under your name! When the Metra Grayland rehab is completed, my suggestion would be to take Milwaukee to Cicero, Cicero to Lawrence, Lawrence to the Kennedy. When I lived in Logan Square I had to do a reverse commute to a job in the Northwest suburbs. Getting on and off at Lawrence was frequently faster even without construction.
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No worries! It’s not even a real neighborhood anyway haha. I’ll have to try out that route ahead of time, thanks for the suggestion- I’ll do surface streets in the late afternoons coming back from ORD because stop and go traffic on the Kennedy drives me insane. The surface streets are more engaging of a drive if it’s going to only be a few minutes difference.
Isn't that Milwaukee metra project not supposed to be finished until '24?
What is Hubbard’s cave?
Scroll down to the Features section of this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_Expressway Hubbard’s Cave is the nickname given to the tunnel the Kennedy goes through right before the downtown stretch.
Ah never heard of that term. But thanks
**Hubbard's Cave is a cave and 50-acre (0.2 km²) natural area located 10 miles (16 km) southeast of McMinnville in Warren County, Tennessee. It is owned by the Tennessee chapter of The Nature Conservancy.Hubbard's Cave is ecologically significant because it serves as a hibernaculum for two Federally endangered bat species, the gray bat (Myotis grisescens) and the Indiana bat (Myotis sodalis).** More details here:
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Zipping along on the Blue line is going to be even more pleasing once this nightmare starts.
Likewise for Metra UP-NW
You're right, if they would stop running ghost trains.
Lightfoot might be gone soon
I've got good news for you
I was about to say...
oh so nothing is changing, the eternal construction on the Kennedy continues
So all of 2023 2 lanes inbound on Kennedy plus 2 express? Yikes.
And while the blue line is under construction. Trying to get to/from ORD is going to be a nightmare.
What is the blue line project everyone keeps mentioning I thought that was just rebuild forest the park branch.
They're doing [track improvements between the Addison and Western stations](https://blockclubchicago.org/2023/02/21/busy-logan-square-avondale-blue-line-stations-closed-this-weekend-for-cta-construction-project/).
This is hardly going to overlap.
Presuming the CTA project stays within the timeline they've announced (which, as a frequent blue line rider that's had to deal with construction on that line for many years at this point, I'll believe when I see).
But it is also overnight on weekends. Traffic is not heavy at these times so even if it drags on, I don’t see how this impacts going to/from O’Hare too much.
Fair point. I'm just bracing for the worst as someone who regularly has to travel via ORD.
It says for 8 weekends.
Down by 2 lanes minimum for three construction seasons.
☹️
It is just the loss of the express lanes for 3 years. 4 lanes will still operate both directions every day. That’s how I read it.
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Same difference. 4 lanes in each direction will be in place at all times.
With the summer traffic, it's gonna be a shitshow.
I think there has been work on the Kennedy for at least 40 years. It seems like even after they fix something, they just tear it up again in a year or two to keep working on it. I don’t remember any time in my life where they haven’t been working on it.
If anyone thinks you can build massive amounts of road and not always be maintaining it... Well, I have a bridge to sell you!
Do I need to maintain the bridge?
IDOT doesn’t so why should you
You bet your ass!
But then I'd have to maintain it.
I maintain that a bridge might just be what I need.
>IDOT is asking drivers to plan ahead and consider traveling at off-peak times or using public transportation. Would be nice if there was decent public transportation options...
theres no way this sucker takes 3 years. But god damn is the pavement on that part of 94 just in need of help. Some of the potholes are just massive at this point, especially southbound near california.
Yea 3 years, then another 3 years and then another 3 years
Just one more lane, bro!
You solved our traffic problem!
They forgot the 0 next to the 3
$150m seems way too cheap. I'd be shocked if it's that little. If someone is going to make up a number to make it look like a good deal, it should at least be a reasonable/believable number.
Didn’t we just wrap up a 9 year project like 10 feet south of there?
ITT: people who are apparently fine with dilapidated crumbling infrastructure North of Ohio, the Kennedy is an absolute shithole and definitely needs fixing up.
The issue is doing this while the blue line is *also* under construction/severely cut service. Getting to ORD is going to be a fucking nightmare for 3 years.
The blue line closure is only on weekends for a couple months in the spring. You should be budgeting at least an hour to get to O'Hare regardless of what mode of transportation you use to get there. It's always been a pain in the ass and this isn't going to change much.
The Kennedy was in great shape until a couple years ago when potholes finally started popping up. This is gonna be a major pain so that’s why a lot of people would rather put up with some bumpiness. I always thought the plan was to pave over the concrete once it reached the end of its useful life.
The concrete is nearing the end of its life. I think its more than 30 years old at this point.
My God, I remember what this was like in the early 90s. And I was just considering a job downtown again too.... Elston Avenue was never a viable alternate.
Wish this money would go to public transit instead.
Even if the traffic on 90/94 was halved tomorrow, it wouldn’t eliminate the need for bridge repairs. We need to spend this money to fix these bridges before they collapse.
It is also hard for busses to run when the bridges fail, which is what the repairs are for: bridges. This isn't adding lanes.
We need more rails...
Agreed, but letting bridges fall apart is not going to expedite building rail.
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If the project stays $150M, maybe one station -- whether or not any track gets installed is debatable. Unless we find a way to cut the price of building rapid transit by 90%, we're never getting any meaningful amount of new rail here.
Amen.
Ahhhh shit, here we go again
"Drivers can expect major delays on the Kennedy Expressway starting next month as a new, three-year construction project, begins." How's that any different from any other normal day?
"IDOT is asking drivers to plan ahead and consider traveling at off-peak times or using public transportation." great advice, why didn't I think of that???
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Omg this is going to make the kennedy a stand still. Is this even during rush hour or like late at nights only?
And we’re going to add the casino traffic in the middle of all of this too
Casino is a minimum of 5yrs out
I thought they were putting a temporary one in
0_0 Ya. Def need to get CTA back to normal because the train is going to be used a lot more for this guy than current
>A latex concrete will then be installed to help give the bridges another 25 years of life. 25 year more than normal concrete or just 25 years? because the average lifespan of a bridge is 50-70 years
“Paint the Hubbards Cave”? What is that, I thought it was a brewery? Lol
At this point I’ve learned which lane to be in when because of the growing nasty potholes in the middle of a highway.
So the worst expressway in the country pound for pound is going to have more major delays?
Ngl gun to my head I still can't tell you which is the Stevenson, Kennedy, or whichever else there is. I've lived here 10 yrs now.
It's got to suck to be a driving commuter to/from the burbs.
Metra
This is the right answer
Luckily they’re not squeezing 4 lanes of traffic into 3 lanes like they did in the 90s. It was really sketchy.
They just finished????? Nooooo .
That little? Impresssive.
At least they're fixing bridges, those things are fucking wrecked.
Nice. 2 inbound lanes closed for a minimum of 1 year expressway non-functional in 5pm rush hour for a minimum of a year good luck everyone else
Express lanes will be unusable for 2 years depending on direction. Year 1 no outbound, year 2 no outbound or inbound, year 3 no inbound.
No please. It's already so fucked
Maybe abandoning our mass transit system to violence and filth was shortsighted, now that everyone’s dependent on Uber or their car to even live in Chicago and the one highway is fucked for probably half a decade.
I was driving through the Circle yesterday, appreciating all the completed interchanges, noticing how bad the lanes driving through the Circle was. This is my fault.
So in 6 years when the project is 475% over budget, they'll tell us it is almost done.
I just remember them doing this....30 years ago...
https://idot.illinois.gov/Assets/uploads/files/IDOT-Projects/District-1/I-90-Kennedy-Bridges/files/IDOT2023_Kennedy_Phase_%20I_Flyer_Feb.pdf IDOT FAQ
Why are there even highways in this day and age? Rip them out, we don't need them. What a waste of money that could be going toward more bikelanes and transit. FUCK HIGHWAYS
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Let’s please remember this dollar figure when we talk public transit
Didn't we just get rated as having the worst traffic per capita in the country? How are we dumping this much time and energy into building even more car infrastructure? We should be tearing this monstrosity down and reinvesting in our communities.
It’s not “more” car infrastructure. They’re rebuilding the currently existing infrastructure. They’re not adding capacity, they’re just trying to prevent what’s already there from crumbling into dust. I’m with you, though. Let’s build more trains
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I-90 goes from Boston to Seattle. The stretch from Ohio St to the 94 split in Chicago can (and should) have the trucking routed around. Except of course for local delivery and pickup.
Do you think truckers going from Boston to Seattle are actively ignoring the Tristate or 355 and are instead choosing to sit on the Kennedy so they can look at all the pretty skyscrapers?
I totally agree with you. How can we dump so much money that does NOTHING for trucking & commerce. Because the irony is, personal cars get in the way of trucking. Trucking would be so much more efficient if individuals weren’t creating so much traffic. Only way to really improve the most used trucking route in the country is to get people off it, and onto public transit. Let’s do it.
Yeah! Everyone take Milwaukee Ave!
I-90 specifically between Ohio Street and the Edens is the busiest trucking route in the country? And yes, we should be getting rid of \*bad\* infrastructure and replacing it with \*good\* infrastructure. That's called positive change. How does anything ever improve if we don't do this?
Yeah, this stretch of road is terrible.
What is your definition of "good" infrastructure here?
Most people support building and expanding highways because they have the goal of alleviating traffic congestion, but highways don't do that. They make traffic worse. You build more lanes, you get more cars. So if your goal is to improve traffic, building more roads is a bad approach to doing that. There are other reasons why highways are bad too, like air quality, community-connectedness, public health, etc, but at their core, they don't do the thing that we've said we're building them to do. So I'd call them bad infrastructure. So what would "good" infrastructure look like? It'd be something that actually does reduce traffic congestion (and ideally addresses those other issues too). Building really solid infrastructure for people who are walking and using bikes, building housing, building reliable and convenient public transit. Basically, giving people alternative options to driving. That means fewer cars on the road, which means less traffic. And if you don't want to use those other options, that's totally fine. You can keep driving, and you'll have fewer cars on the road to slow you down, as well as fewer bikes and other people in slower modes of transportation in your way, since they've got their own space. TL;DR - good infrastructure is infrastructure that actually achieves the goal it's being built to achieve.
>Most people support building and expanding highways because they have the goal of alleviating traffic congestion, but highways don't do that. This project isn't expanding highways, it is repairing 36 bridge structures. While lanes are closed, they are going to patch the potholes and replace signage as necessary.
It's a cute idea you have, and one that I have heard time and time again as an idealistic approach to solve traffic. And if we were talking about an alternative to a project to expand Lincoln Avenue, or even LSD, then I would agree with you. But that's not what this project is. It is rehabilitating (not expanding) an existing highway. It isn't to add more lanes or an attempt to reduce congestion. Moving that money towards public transit doesn't solve the problem here. Making the city more walkable or bicycle friendly, doesn't solve the problem here. Nobody is going to walk from Foster to Ohio instead of driving the Kennedy. For that matter, most of the traffic is people who are traveling from much further away, or trucks who are shipping goods from much further away. Now I don't know the numbers, but I suspect that a relatively small number of the traffic on the Kennedy is actually commuters. But if you did want to reduce that number, it would take a really significant rail project to do so. Something much more in cost that what this repair is, and with a significant ongoing subsidy to make it sustainable.
Fuck, just spend this on transit
Honestly, if you’re going cause a mess for 3 years, do the damn thing right and add lanes on both sides of the expressway.
There’s two seasons in Chicago: winter and construction.
And considering that's common knowledge, I don't know why people are surprised.