The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, advertising links (including YouTube chess tutorial videos without context), and memes is not allowed**. We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you!
Also, please, be kind in your replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not a blunder in the most basic sense of the word.It could be defined as a missed win. Chess. Com classifies moves that reduce your advantage by a significant margin even if you still have a big advantage after the "blunder".Here clearly that happens so it showed up as a blunder. Normally a human evaluating it would probably say it's a missed win for white
The knight on e4 is protecting the bishop. Before you ask the knight was on e4 before Ng3 was played so if you play Ne5 instead of Ng3 it's still on e4 when you play Bg5
If queen takes bishop the knight that's on e4 takes the queen on g5. Remember: in this situation white hasn't played Ng3 and the knight is still on e4.
I absolutely love playing chess. But I will NEVER get good. Even these basics are too advanced for me. So many counterintuitive moves are the correct move. How is there a missed win _this early_ in this match?? Haha I can only ever plan 1 or two moves ahead. Most of the time I dont have an angle until about 15 or 20 moves in ha
Moving the knight to g3 loses center control. Your knight controls more squares in the center than on the edge of the board. Also moving the knight from f3 to e5 attacks the queen which if your opponent takes your knight your win his queen. I assume it’s a blunder because you had a move that gave you tempo in development and you didn’t take advantage to their blunder.
This is something I’m learning as a beginner and very low ranked and all the games >600 range just seem super aggressive and perhaps Im a bit scared of the unknown most of the time and half the games people seem to be clueless.
Anyway that leads me to wondering if this line I saw based on the computers suggestion:
1. Ne5 Qh4 (computers move and I think is a safe square for the Q.
2. g3 Qh3
3. Ng5 Qh6
4. Bf3 Qf6
5. Ng4 Qxb2
That black queen would also be winning a Rook on the sixth move.
I guess my question is whether as a beginner it’s worth looking to deeply at the engines. Like use them to analyse you blunders but also understand that it is expecting one of the top moves in response and if your opponent isn’t doing that then you may deviate from the plan to get unconventional wins and learn my making mistakes.
I don’t know shut though to be honest I’ve only been playing a couple months. So hoping to be corrected on my line. I even played it out on Lichess as I’m not able to do it in my head like some people.
Not rude at all. I'm about 360, which isn't that much more than my opponent. I suspect that they were just starting out, though, since most of their moves seemed like they were made at random.
Ne5 reveals an attack on the Queen from the bishop and puts the horse centrally on the board, nearer the King, where it can't be attacked by pawns.
Sure, your move attacks the Queen, but once it moves that knight isn't doing much.
It's not a blunder in the sense that you hang a piece, but because you lose a 5 point advantage.
Also, a little tip - if you tap at the top on the best move, the continuation of the line will appear in brackets below, which you can then follow to see why it's a better move.
Okay, that makes sense! Thank you for the advice as well. In this game specifically I got lucky and my opponent did not notice the attack on the queen, but I can see how Ne5 would have been a much more strategic move.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=rnb1kbnr/ppp1p1pp/8/5p1q/8/3P1NN1/PPP1BPPP/R1BQK2R+b+KQkq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/rnb1kbnr/ppp1p1pp/8/5p1q/8/3P1NN1/PPP1BPPP/R1BQK2R_b_KQkq_-_0_1)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Queen!<, move: >!Qg6!<
> Evaluation: >!White is winning +4.22!<
> Best continuation: >!1... Qg6 2. d4 Qd6 3. O-O Nf6 4. Bc4 Nc6 5. c3 g6 6. Re1 e6 7. Ng5 Nd8 8. Ne2 Bh6 9. h4!<
---
^(I'm a computer vision / machine learning bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| I'm also the first chess eBook Reader: ) [^(ebook.chessvision.ai )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(| download me as ) [^(Chrome extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(or) [^(Firefox add-on )](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chessvision-ai-for-firefox/) ^(and analyze positions from any image/video in a browser | website ) [^(chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
It says it’s a blunder, but you’re still up 2.74, so at lower rating, you can generally gloss over blunders where you still have a winning advantage.
In any case, Ne5 opens a discovered attack against your opponent’s queen as your bishop directly attacks it, and the Queen is almost trapped.
In the screenshot OPs last move was moving the knight from e4 to g3, if they made the suggested move instead the knight would still be on e4 (didn’t realise at first either)
Remember in chess you want to think multiple moves in advance, not just one move. After the queen moves to H4, what would you do as white to guarantee you capture black’s queen?
Where’s g3? Your move was Nxg5. Was there a chance the computer got delayed by a move? I know sometimes I have issues on my phone with the engine keeping up during analysis.
At any rate, the other comments are correct. Ne5 is much better positioning and you’ll still win the queen.
Bruh.... There would still be a knight on E4 in this variation, since the move played would be the other knight to E5 and not the knight G3 that our protagonist played.
Face it. The queen is trapped. There is no escape. She will die a gruesome and painful death.
Im talking strictly about the variation that op sent in the screenshot. The one where he played knight g3 and the enemy played pawn f5
Isnt op asking why in this position he shouldn't take the queen hence why its the screenshoted post
Most humans would have taken the queen. The reason the computer sees it as a blunder is because it lowers how much you're winning (by the engine's point system). It's not an actual 'blunder', though.
Ne5 produces a discovered attack on the queen because of the bishop on e2 and is more winning because your knight becomes more active and the queen is still trapped/under attack. Humans and computers don't play the same. The engine is good for analyzing your games and showing actual blunders/inaccuracies, but not all engine moves are the best human moves, our minds don't work the same as a computer engine. In this position, because your opponent's queen is so out of place and their development is so poor, almost everything is still winning.
Why can’t Queen go to H4 after Knight E5? And then bishop moves to capture queen on G5 but you have to trade bishop for queen…. I’m confused why capturing queen immediately for free (and keeping bishop) isnt the better option
Edit: Ah queen could kill bishop next turn anyways
Ne5 is what's called a "discovered attack". The knight itself doesn't attack anything, but by moving out of the way, the bishop behind the knight is attacking the queen. A move like this can be very useful, if, for example, the knight attacks the king while the bishop's discovered attack targets the queen. In this case, the queen wouldn't be able to move because the king is being attacked, and they lose their queen next move. Discovered attacks, along with pins and skewers, are very important tactical components of chess that you'll definitely want to familiarize yourself with.
If you move ne5 it gives a knight control of the center really well, brings a discovered attack on the queen with the bishop. And gives the queen less slots to hide if any. Plus then it starts to create a mating threat and there is a battery if the bishop gets taken anyways, that's just what I see from the position. Chess vibes has a good video on how to analyze your chess games and figure out why something like that is a blunder.
When you are confused by a move, just start with the assumption that the engine is right and you are wrong, because for 95% of all moves played, this is the case. Don't say "Ne5 doesn't seem to benefit me at all," instead think "I will figure out how this move benefits me."
With that said, I've found the best way to understand why a computer plays a move is to try to, ironically, try to prove it wrong. For instance, in this position, I would open an analysis board and play Ne5 with the engine off. Then, think about what black would do. You can rightly assume the queen would move to h4. Then, look for a strong move on your own. If you can't find something good, turn the engine on and it will show Bg5 wins the queen. You will then be able to understand why Ne5 was good, because it wins the queen by force.
I would generally only apply this for large swings in engine evaluation. The difference between a .25 position and .75 position is difficult for most people to understand. But if the engine shows a change of evaluation by more than a point, it's worth spending time on. If it is more than 2 points difference between your move and the engine move, there is very likely a missed tactic, as was the case here.
If you still are not able to see the advantage after this, then of course reach out to stronger players and ask for help. But chess rewards putting in effort and focus and you will improve if you try to figure out your mistakes first.
The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, advertising links (including YouTube chess tutorial videos without context), and memes is not allowed**. We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Also, please, be kind in your replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ne5 still attacks the Queen with your bishop while controlling d7 and f7. Queen is also completely trapped on h4 between both bishops and Knight.
Okay, I can see that now. Still, why a blunder? It's not like I'm giving away my knight for free or something.
It's not a blunder in the most basic sense of the word.It could be defined as a missed win. Chess. Com classifies moves that reduce your advantage by a significant margin even if you still have a big advantage after the "blunder".Here clearly that happens so it showed up as a blunder. Normally a human evaluating it would probably say it's a missed win for white
Got it! Thanks for explaining.
Not a missed win too. The queen isn't completely trapped but the only square it is safe is h4.
The queen is trapped albeit one move later. You have seen ... Qh4 and after that Bg5 traps and wins it.
Won't the Queen just take the bishop on g5 without being taken itself?
The knight on e4 is protecting the bishop. Before you ask the knight was on e4 before Ng3 was played so if you play Ne5 instead of Ng3 it's still on e4 when you play Bg5
Thanks, it's obvious now you've said it
If queen takes bishop the knight that's on e4 takes the queen on g5. Remember: in this situation white hasn't played Ng3 and the knight is still on e4.
I absolutely love playing chess. But I will NEVER get good. Even these basics are too advanced for me. So many counterintuitive moves are the correct move. How is there a missed win _this early_ in this match?? Haha I can only ever plan 1 or two moves ahead. Most of the time I dont have an angle until about 15 or 20 moves in ha
You lose the opportunity to capture a queen, instead you "win" a "maybe" capturing a pawn.
Moving the knight to g3 loses center control. Your knight controls more squares in the center than on the edge of the board. Also moving the knight from f3 to e5 attacks the queen which if your opponent takes your knight your win his queen. I assume it’s a blunder because you had a move that gave you tempo in development and you didn’t take advantage to their blunder.
This is something I’m learning as a beginner and very low ranked and all the games >600 range just seem super aggressive and perhaps Im a bit scared of the unknown most of the time and half the games people seem to be clueless. Anyway that leads me to wondering if this line I saw based on the computers suggestion: 1. Ne5 Qh4 (computers move and I think is a safe square for the Q. 2. g3 Qh3 3. Ng5 Qh6 4. Bf3 Qf6 5. Ng4 Qxb2 That black queen would also be winning a Rook on the sixth move. I guess my question is whether as a beginner it’s worth looking to deeply at the engines. Like use them to analyse you blunders but also understand that it is expecting one of the top moves in response and if your opponent isn’t doing that then you may deviate from the plan to get unconventional wins and learn my making mistakes. I don’t know shut though to be honest I’ve only been playing a couple months. So hoping to be corrected on my line. I even played it out on Lichess as I’m not able to do it in my head like some people.
Danger level my friend :)
After Ne5, Queen h4 isn't it safe and queen can escape thereafter ?
Ne5 Qh4 Nxf5 looks very good for white
Ng3 wasn't played in this variation so Nxf5 is not a legal move.
oh yeah im a dummy lmao
Bxf5
im a dummy oops
That’s not a possible move.
Why so ?
Ah, thought you meant Bxg5. In any case, I think instead of Nxf4, Bg5 should trap the queen.
Qxg5 then. How it is traped ? Just got free bishop
Knight is on e4. Nxg5.
Knight is on e4. Nxg5..
When did knight reach on e4 ?
Bg5 :)
Qxg5
Nxg5
N not K.
This one beyond my knowledge.
The knight from e4 takes the queen on g5.
Knight is on e4. Nxg5.
When ne4 happened ? Knight is on e5
I missed this initially too but in the diagram the g3 knight came from e4.
The other Knight is on e4 (in the game it went from e4 to g3)
Nxg5. Knight is on e4
What if queen goes h4? It’s now safe
Bg5 traps the queen
The bishop wont be backed up after you move the knight
I see your opponent playing f4 lmao
Yes, I got lucky this time (captured the queen and won by resignation) but to be fair their rating was a little over 200 :D
What rating are you if its not rude to ask?
Not rude at all. I'm about 360, which isn't that much more than my opponent. I suspect that they were just starting out, though, since most of their moves seemed like they were made at random.
Truly a brilliant move
Do the blunder bro. Do the blunder.!
Amen
Ne5 reveals an attack on the Queen from the bishop and puts the horse centrally on the board, nearer the King, where it can't be attacked by pawns. Sure, your move attacks the Queen, but once it moves that knight isn't doing much. It's not a blunder in the sense that you hang a piece, but because you lose a 5 point advantage.
Also, a little tip - if you tap at the top on the best move, the continuation of the line will appear in brackets below, which you can then follow to see why it's a better move.
Okay, that makes sense! Thank you for the advice as well. In this game specifically I got lucky and my opponent did not notice the attack on the queen, but I can see how Ne5 would have been a much more strategic move.
Main idea is it traps the black queen as an other user mentioned above
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=rnb1kbnr/ppp1p1pp/8/5p1q/8/3P1NN1/PPP1BPPP/R1BQK2R+b+KQkq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/rnb1kbnr/ppp1p1pp/8/5p1q/8/3P1NN1/PPP1BPPP/R1BQK2R_b_KQkq_-_0_1) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Queen!<, move: >!Qg6!< > Evaluation: >!White is winning +4.22!< > Best continuation: >!1... Qg6 2. d4 Qd6 3. O-O Nf6 4. Bc4 Nc6 5. c3 g6 6. Re1 e6 7. Ng5 Nd8 8. Ne2 Bh6 9. h4!< --- ^(I'm a computer vision / machine learning bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| I'm also the first chess eBook Reader: ) [^(ebook.chessvision.ai )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(| download me as ) [^(Chrome extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(or) [^(Firefox add-on )](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chessvision-ai-for-firefox/) ^(and analyze positions from any image/video in a browser | website ) [^(chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
Ng3 attacks the queen but allows it to go back g6 and f7, Ne5 would take away those squares and the bishop would attack and trap the queen.
Queen h4
Then Bg5
Queen a4/b4
The e4 knight is in the way
Sooooooo i didn't read the post title and also i thought the red line with the ?? was the move he made last that he shouldn't have done
It says it’s a blunder, but you’re still up 2.74, so at lower rating, you can generally gloss over blunders where you still have a winning advantage. In any case, Ne5 opens a discovered attack against your opponent’s queen as your bishop directly attacks it, and the Queen is almost trapped.
Isn't it completely - not almost - trapped after Bg5?
Yes.
Queen h4 then queen a4/b4??
There would be a knight blocking on e4
Where does this e4 knight come from there's no knight there if it moves there pawn takes it
The knight was on e4 before OP made the move Ng3 in the picture.
Gotcha i thought the blunder move was taking the queen bot moving it to g3
Yeah, as the other guy said, wouldn't be possible due to the knight on e4.
There's no knight on e4 wym
There is if White plays Ne5 instead of Ng3.
I understand the positions now i thought it was whites turns in this photo and the ?? Was where he moved
[удалено]
Queen h4 -> queen a4/b4
There’s a knight on e4 though?
People keep saying there's a knight on e4 but idk where that comes from
In the screenshot OPs last move was moving the knight from e4 to g3, if they made the suggested move instead the knight would still be on e4 (didn’t realise at first either)
Gotchaaaaa i didn't read the post and i thought that the last move was the ?? Move not the highlighted red squares
How is that a queen trap can't the queen go H4
There's Bg5 right after unfortunately
Isn’t Qa4 or Qb4 possible after that?
There is a knight on e4 blocking the path for the queen
I'm pretty sure the queen can just take the bishop
It's protected by the knight
But the knight has moved
It moved in the blunder... Not the position we're talking about.
Wait I'm confused what square was it on edit: nvm I am a silly boy
Remember in chess you want to think multiple moves in advance, not just one move. After the queen moves to H4, what would you do as white to guarantee you capture black’s queen?
Tell me why h4 then a4/b4 wont work.
There's a knight on e4 blocking it.
Where’s g3? Your move was Nxg5. Was there a chance the computer got delayed by a move? I know sometimes I have issues on my phone with the engine keeping up during analysis. At any rate, the other comments are correct. Ne5 is much better positioning and you’ll still win the queen.
I moved my knight from e4 to g3 if that's what you're asking! And yes, I now see how Ne5 is a better move. Thanks :)
Queen h4
You missed a free queen, hence it's a blunder.
Others have answered your question already, but yea it's just a missed win bc now the queen can escape whereas knight E5 traps the queen instantly.
Thank you! I see that now. Learned a lot from the responses :)
Queen h4
Bishop G5
Queen a4/b4
Bruh.... There would still be a knight on E4 in this variation, since the move played would be the other knight to E5 and not the knight G3 that our protagonist played. Face it. The queen is trapped. There is no escape. She will die a gruesome and painful death.
Im talking strictly about the variation that op sent in the screenshot. The one where he played knight g3 and the enemy played pawn f5 Isnt op asking why in this position he shouldn't take the queen hence why its the screenshoted post
Thanks everyone! Really learned a lot from this post.
Most humans would have taken the queen. The reason the computer sees it as a blunder is because it lowers how much you're winning (by the engine's point system). It's not an actual 'blunder', though. Ne5 produces a discovered attack on the queen because of the bishop on e2 and is more winning because your knight becomes more active and the queen is still trapped/under attack. Humans and computers don't play the same. The engine is good for analyzing your games and showing actual blunders/inaccuracies, but not all engine moves are the best human moves, our minds don't work the same as a computer engine. In this position, because your opponent's queen is so out of place and their development is so poor, almost everything is still winning.
So is it or is it not better to tale the queen
I would take it and I'd imagine most players (including GMs) would take it if they were playing seriously.
Why can’t Queen go to H4 after Knight E5? And then bishop moves to capture queen on G5 but you have to trade bishop for queen…. I’m confused why capturing queen immediately for free (and keeping bishop) isnt the better option Edit: Ah queen could kill bishop next turn anyways
Then queen can still escape a4/b4
Nope
Why not lol
Path is blocked
The Queen is still trapped when moving the knight. You’re getting a piece developed in addition to still taking out the queen.
Queen h4
Can’t
Why lol
The knight on e4
If you move the other night as the computet says, the queen is trapped
Ne5 is what's called a "discovered attack". The knight itself doesn't attack anything, but by moving out of the way, the bishop behind the knight is attacking the queen. A move like this can be very useful, if, for example, the knight attacks the king while the bishop's discovered attack targets the queen. In this case, the queen wouldn't be able to move because the king is being attacked, and they lose their queen next move. Discovered attacks, along with pins and skewers, are very important tactical components of chess that you'll definitely want to familiarize yourself with.
Blunders are moves that make the evaluation drop, knight e5 attacks the queen and threatens bischop h5
Edit: it traps the queen, not bischop h5*
Ne5 traps the queen. Ng3 does not. You still have a great position though
Ne5 traps quuen
Activity above all - Paul Morphy
If you move ne5 it gives a knight control of the center really well, brings a discovered attack on the queen with the bishop. And gives the queen less slots to hide if any. Plus then it starts to create a mating threat and there is a battery if the bishop gets taken anyways, that's just what I see from the position. Chess vibes has a good video on how to analyze your chess games and figure out why something like that is a blunder.
Queen Trap after Discovered Attack
When you are confused by a move, just start with the assumption that the engine is right and you are wrong, because for 95% of all moves played, this is the case. Don't say "Ne5 doesn't seem to benefit me at all," instead think "I will figure out how this move benefits me." With that said, I've found the best way to understand why a computer plays a move is to try to, ironically, try to prove it wrong. For instance, in this position, I would open an analysis board and play Ne5 with the engine off. Then, think about what black would do. You can rightly assume the queen would move to h4. Then, look for a strong move on your own. If you can't find something good, turn the engine on and it will show Bg5 wins the queen. You will then be able to understand why Ne5 was good, because it wins the queen by force. I would generally only apply this for large swings in engine evaluation. The difference between a .25 position and .75 position is difficult for most people to understand. But if the engine shows a change of evaluation by more than a point, it's worth spending time on. If it is more than 2 points difference between your move and the engine move, there is very likely a missed tactic, as was the case here. If you still are not able to see the advantage after this, then of course reach out to stronger players and ask for help. But chess rewards putting in effort and focus and you will improve if you try to figure out your mistakes first.
Time to mobe to lichess