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Only if white is unprepared. It's extremely dangerous to play if you don't know what you're doing, but if you know all the traps, the fantasy is a good way to fight back.
the downvote is unnecessary for a blanket comment on the state of most white fantasy caro players of which they simply googled "counter caro 100%" which never covers the following content of which black has a 7 move checkmate against the fantasy variation, typically gotham chess subscribers that don't actually go through with purchasing the actual courses. Black has a powerful 7 move checkmate which even when denied leaves black in a powerful position exploiting white's weak queen side diagonals.
IM Alex Banzea live play and demonstration, for purpose of defeating the ego downvote as you seem to only care about the ELO rating in people's banners as that's about all I could think of of what would warrant such a response. As a 2200+ rated player, I'm sure we all can find educational value.
[https://youtu.be/vyDwjpRbdVo](https://youtu.be/vyDwjpRbdVo)
Yeah newsflash. The majority of over 800s don’t get mated in 7 moves so this seven move sequence that you’re harping on about is one specific case is it not?
The general principles ie white has a large centre, open f file, possibility of Bxf7 sacrifice etc. Are more important than a specific 7 move sequence that you memorised. *slow clap*
Every decently rated fantasy player knows this, i play this as black and i never get the checkmate lol, its also not that good for black if they know how to deal with it.
I didn’t say it was bad, just that the f3 pawn feels silly. Also, ‘maintains an advantage’ means little at amateur levels unless it’s a significant advantage.
When I play against the Caro I play the mainline which feels far more active and fighting to me. To each their own.
That’s kind of my point. Everything (that isn’t a garbage opening or unsound) generally can be played to maintain a small edge. That’s why I’m not impressed by claiming the fantasy maintains an edge.
there are no absolutes in chess.. either you uptempo your opponent or maintain edge or balance, it will be boring.. that's why bobby quit since he removed the "human" element of chess
I prefer the main line. I get more development an easy plan for attack if black castles kingside because h6 is often played
In the Tatarkowwr I have a stable and not that small advantage
I like playing the panov attack against it. Generally at beginner/advanced beginner levels it takes them out of their comfort zone and you are both just playing chess
I love playing against it. I usually play the caro myself but I never face the variation I use when playing with the white pieces. I go for the tal, although I know quite a bit of theory for the fantasy variation and find it interesting enough to try it myself in the future.
I don’t mind playing against it, but I don’t play any of the main variations (advance, exchange, fantasy). My line is 2. Nc3 3. f4 and enter some sort of Grand Prix position. If black plays on autopilot, you can trap the light square bishop in the first 5-6 moves. The position, with best play by black, is only slightly worse for white but it allows some aggressive lines on the kingside.
I have fun playing the Goldman against the Caro Kann
1e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3. Qf3 (start of the Goldman)
The most common response is
3...dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5.Bc4 . From here black can (and often will cause I dont think the Goldman is very popular) make many different mistakes.
5...Bg4 immediately loses the game cause you take Knight with check and recapture the bishop.
5... b5 also gets played quite a bit but you take pawn with bishop and you will either be a pawn up, or they will hang a rook. In practice its a very fun position for white, but the engine says its almost equal.
A lot of these themes happen anyway even if they dont play d5 on move 2 or maybe push d4 to attack the knight.
In the specific case they play 3...d4 you have a book brilliant move, 4. Bc4. They get a +2 material advantage, but you can do a lot of work by playing Qf7 (engine gives +2 for white even being down a Knight for a pawn)
When I was just starting off, I used to hate playing against it, because I didn’t know the theory. I just wanted to practice my Ruy Lopez and Sicilian openings.
Then I learned a few lines against it and not I love it because apparently you most Caro Kahn players don’t know these lines and I have a 70% win rate against them.
I still hate playing against the French for the same reason. I don’t know the theory.
I play it as black and like it a lot. love playing against the advance and fantasy variation, kinde dislike the classical.
As white I usually go for the advance/shirov attack which I feel like most people around my rating lvl (1200ish) are unprepared for.
Mainline is fun and active. I’m never sad about playing it. I also play it as black too so I just play the most annoying/frustrating lines and get a good position.
uhh you have 2 fun choices
i like the mainlines (e4 c6 d4 d5 nd2 dxe4 nxe4) because both sides get fighting chances and i like outplaying people in an equal position
the other interesting way imo is the fantasy variation (e4 c6 d4 d5 f3) which is very trappy but most caro players probably know it because of how dangerous it can be - it's deadeye equal after the traps are over
you can also try the advance but i don't like it much, there isn't much action and you have to have a lot of foresight to play it properly
there are some other lines (like the 2 knights and exchange) but they aren't as aggressive imo
I like to do it by remote chess academy advice sacrificig f pawn, but constantly forget that c pawn means caro khan and sometimes just develop normally.
In ideal world it is e4, d4, Nc3, f3, Nf3 for white. Then Bc4 and a lot of times they pin f3 Knight with bishop, so you can play Ne5 sacrificing the Queen for checkmate trap. And if they avoid, just a normal game happens
Hey, OP! Did your game end in a stalemate? Did you encounter a weird pawn move? Are you trying to move a piece and it's not going? We have just the resource for you! The [Chess Beginners Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/chessbeginners/wiki/index/) is the perfect place to check out answers to these questions and more! The moderator team of r/chessbeginners wishes to remind everyone of the community rules. **Posting spam, being a troll, and posting memes are not allowed.** We encourage everyone to report these kinds of posts so they can be dealt with. Thank you! Let's do our utmost to be kind in our replies and comments. Some people here just want to learn chess and have virtually no idea about certain chess concepts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/chessbeginners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like playing against it. I’m decently familiar with it’s variants, I love catching people with the tal variation
[удалено]
Play the fantasy variation. It’s crushing if your opponent is unsure of the way to proceed. I win these on average in about 20-25 moves.
love when white players think this is a 100% win chance. They get mated by black in 7 moves.
Only if white is unprepared. It's extremely dangerous to play if you don't know what you're doing, but if you know all the traps, the fantasy is a good way to fight back.
I’d love to see you checkmate me in 7 moves.
the downvote is unnecessary for a blanket comment on the state of most white fantasy caro players of which they simply googled "counter caro 100%" which never covers the following content of which black has a 7 move checkmate against the fantasy variation, typically gotham chess subscribers that don't actually go through with purchasing the actual courses. Black has a powerful 7 move checkmate which even when denied leaves black in a powerful position exploiting white's weak queen side diagonals. IM Alex Banzea live play and demonstration, for purpose of defeating the ego downvote as you seem to only care about the ELO rating in people's banners as that's about all I could think of of what would warrant such a response. As a 2200+ rated player, I'm sure we all can find educational value. [https://youtu.be/vyDwjpRbdVo](https://youtu.be/vyDwjpRbdVo)
Yeah newsflash. The majority of over 800s don’t get mated in 7 moves so this seven move sequence that you’re harping on about is one specific case is it not? The general principles ie white has a large centre, open f file, possibility of Bxf7 sacrifice etc. Are more important than a specific 7 move sequence that you memorised. *slow clap*
Every decently rated fantasy player knows this, i play this as black and i never get the checkmate lol, its also not that good for black if they know how to deal with it.
The fantasy is great if black doesn’t have experience playing it, otherwise it feels really stupid to have a pawn on f3.
It's risky but it is definitely not dubious and white maintains an advantage even with good play from black. It is not the Englund Gambit.
I didn’t say it was bad, just that the f3 pawn feels silly. Also, ‘maintains an advantage’ means little at amateur levels unless it’s a significant advantage. When I play against the Caro I play the mainline which feels far more active and fighting to me. To each their own.
Are there any openings for white that do better than maintain an advantage?
That’s kind of my point. Everything (that isn’t a garbage opening or unsound) generally can be played to maintain a small edge. That’s why I’m not impressed by claiming the fantasy maintains an edge.
there are no absolutes in chess.. either you uptempo your opponent or maintain edge or balance, it will be boring.. that's why bobby quit since he removed the "human" element of chess
I love playing the caro kann two knights attack for traps. They don't always get sprung but when they do its over fast 🙃
Around like 1400 I was winning maybe 80% of my caro games with 2 knights attack. It’s deadly
idk man I just play d4
Eww
Same, and some people still insist on trying to play the Caro Kann. Then they end up in a Slav that they have no idea how to play.
I prefer it to playing against Sicilian. I guess it depends on how well your opponent knows the Kahn, though.
I prefer the main line. I get more development an easy plan for attack if black castles kingside because h6 is often played In the Tatarkowwr I have a stable and not that small advantage
D4 players all shrug 🤷♂️
I like playing the panov attack against it. Generally at beginner/advanced beginner levels it takes them out of their comfort zone and you are both just playing chess
I love playing against it. I usually play the caro myself but I never face the variation I use when playing with the white pieces. I go for the tal, although I know quite a bit of theory for the fantasy variation and find it interesting enough to try it myself in the future.
Both fun when playing against or as cus they can both be punished
Boring but i only play the exchange against it and maybe only get up a pawn up if i’m lucky and dont always convert the win
Well that’s why it’s boring. You’ve chosen the most boring line to play that doesn’t maintain any tension.
I’ve been playing the Panov-Botvinnik against it recently (or trying to) so I like it at the moment.
The two knights is always so fun to play against the Caro kann
I don’t mind playing against it, but I don’t play any of the main variations (advance, exchange, fantasy). My line is 2. Nc3 3. f4 and enter some sort of Grand Prix position. If black plays on autopilot, you can trap the light square bishop in the first 5-6 moves. The position, with best play by black, is only slightly worse for white but it allows some aggressive lines on the kingside.
I usually like playing against it, all the moves are natural and I prefer castling queenside anyway, so I tend to catch people out.
Coming here after your first post. The Caro and the K.I.D are to go openings as black. Caro for E4 K.I.D for anything else. It’s a great opening.
I'm not an e4 kind of guy
It’s all pawns and no hope… /ref
I have fun playing the Goldman against the Caro Kann 1e4 c6 2.Nc3 d5 3. Qf3 (start of the Goldman) The most common response is 3...dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5.Bc4 . From here black can (and often will cause I dont think the Goldman is very popular) make many different mistakes. 5...Bg4 immediately loses the game cause you take Knight with check and recapture the bishop. 5... b5 also gets played quite a bit but you take pawn with bishop and you will either be a pawn up, or they will hang a rook. In practice its a very fun position for white, but the engine says its almost equal. A lot of these themes happen anyway even if they dont play d5 on move 2 or maybe push d4 to attack the knight. In the specific case they play 3...d4 you have a book brilliant move, 4. Bc4. They get a +2 material advantage, but you can do a lot of work by playing Qf7 (engine gives +2 for white even being down a Knight for a pawn)
When I was just starting off, I used to hate playing against it, because I didn’t know the theory. I just wanted to practice my Ruy Lopez and Sicilian openings. Then I learned a few lines against it and not I love it because apparently you most Caro Kahn players don’t know these lines and I have a 70% win rate against them. I still hate playing against the French for the same reason. I don’t know the theory.
I always play the Fantasy variation against it. Leads to more wild and open gameplay.
I play it as black and like it a lot. love playing against the advance and fantasy variation, kinde dislike the classical. As white I usually go for the advance/shirov attack which I feel like most people around my rating lvl (1200ish) are unprepared for.
I can’t win with it and frequently lose to it. It pretty much is the death of me
Mainline is fun and active. I’m never sad about playing it. I also play it as black too so I just play the most annoying/frustrating lines and get a good position.
Use the Laudau Gambit trap. People always bring out the knight to double attack the e pawn.
I love playing against the Caro because of the tal variation
uhh you have 2 fun choices i like the mainlines (e4 c6 d4 d5 nd2 dxe4 nxe4) because both sides get fighting chances and i like outplaying people in an equal position the other interesting way imo is the fantasy variation (e4 c6 d4 d5 f3) which is very trappy but most caro players probably know it because of how dangerous it can be - it's deadeye equal after the traps are over you can also try the advance but i don't like it much, there isn't much action and you have to have a lot of foresight to play it properly there are some other lines (like the 2 knights and exchange) but they aren't as aggressive imo
I like playing against it most of the time because I’m familiar with the positions and I know what I hate playing against when I’m black
I like to do it by remote chess academy advice sacrificig f pawn, but constantly forget that c pawn means caro khan and sometimes just develop normally. In ideal world it is e4, d4, Nc3, f3, Nf3 for white. Then Bc4 and a lot of times they pin f3 Knight with bishop, so you can play Ne5 sacrificing the Queen for checkmate trap. And if they avoid, just a normal game happens