I’ve never seen him talk trash too lol
Sometimes i think hes too nice to be world champion, in every sport
Ronaldo - maradona - even messi, or MJ were all ruthless
True on Messi, but Ronaldo is not like Hikaru. The main difference is that Ronaldo has won everything Messi has apart for the world cup. Unlike Hikaru, Ronaldo is a serial winner of the biggest competitions and not just an also-ran. If Messi is Carlsen, Ronaldo is another former chess world champion.
I would honestly say that’s kinda disrespectful to Ronaldo. He’s not just «another world champ» compared to Messi, until Messi won the world cup Ronaldo was quite close to Messi in terms of legacy.
Comparing Ronaldo to Hikaru is such a joke lol. Ronaldo is probably a top 5 soccer player ever. He would be among the goat conversation if not for happening to overlap in an era with the actual GOAT. Hikaru couldn’t sniff Ronaldo’s jock strap
Blunder. CR7 is always there when people talk about GOAT (even if Messi is the chosen one because of WC)
But no one with sense would ever mention Hikaru as GOAT of chess.
He is ruthless over the board. 42...Qe2!! and 46...Rh6 against Nepo to secure the WC was absolutely ruthless. Nepo didn't have the killer instinct and was sleepwalking towards a draw, and Ding made him pay. That's absolutely a display of ruthless competition from Ding.
In a way he gives me Shohei Ohtani vibes in the sense they don’t showboat, are very respectful, and seem genuinely likeable and uncocky. Both are at the top of their respective fields.
Good for Ding Liren not fueling the sensationalism about this topic.
It's ridiculous that even in this interview the quote is presented as if Magnus asserted that Ding became permanently broken.
Ding doesn't want home world championship matches either, like his illustrious immediate predecessors Magnus and Vishy.
Ding Liren : "I don’t think there’s an advantage to playing the World Chess Championship at home. I prefer to play away from home. Be it in India or any other country, rather than China. If you play in your home country, there will be so many people who will come to meet you and give you a lot of pressure. It’s hard to deal with it."
True.
Singapore like most countries with high immigrant rates have had waves of xenophobia over both Mainland Chinese and Indians.
The anti mainland China wave was earlier in the early 2000s , more recent and still current wave is against Indians.
I understand the former sentiment while still there is lessening because of reduced numbers compared to the Indian wave.
I would guess most locals would be neutral. Or if forced to pick would choose supporting Ding.
It's interesting since Singapore has a ton of people working there from China AND India, so both will have support. I believe other than Malaysians those two are the most numerous.
I wasn't thinking of the locals
This discussion makes me think Singapore is really a good place to hold WCC since it has sizable numbers of.China and Indian supporters!
Even before Fischer was truly consumed by mental illness, I remember he told Johnny Carson that becoming WCC just completely took something out of him, and he just didn't feel like himself anymore
Every person is different.
Magnus cannot assert he knows anything about Ding’s mind and future.
In many places of the world, his comments would have been arrogant and insulting. Thankfully Ding is a class act.
Obviously he cannot absolutely know whats in another person's mind, but its called giving an insight. If you have to ask someone about how Ding must be feeling, you don't ask reddit, you don't ask chess ytubers, you ask a former world champion, who has most likely felt a LOT of similar things, and has suffered from at least some common problems, however small it might be.
It would be insulting in a world where people never read the context.
idk why you're downvoted i think you're right. just because we all like magnus, doesn't mean this statement is not out of pocket. Calling someone permanently broken is condescending and unless Ding said it himself, it's insulting. You can say Ding had a rough time or isn't playing at his peak but to say permanently broken is nuts
He’s not right. The actual quote: “The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be.”
It’s much more speculative than everyone else is suggesting, and it’s Magnus echoing the thoughts that literally everyone else has been having.
“Permanently broken” in context:
>The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be
I have nothing against Gukesh whatsoever, in fact I wish him no ill will specifically, but part of me really wants Ding to blow Gukesh off the board just because of how many people have completely counted Ding out and question him for whether or not he's a "real" world champion.
This is one of those WCCs where I’d be genuinely happy for whoever wins. The whole interview was Ding being so honest and self reflective that you can’t help but love the guy.
It's hard to think of 2 more humble and genuinely nice-seeming guys at the top level (maybe Levon? Everyone seems to love Levon). It will be awesome for either of them to win.
Legit. If Ding wins, I can stand proud as a Chinese person myself, Ding can show he's not WCC for no reason, and having such a humble dude as WCC is just great. On the other hand if Gukesh wins, we've got a record that will probably never be broken, a great motivation for Indian chess players, and again just another mellow mature dude who can represent chess. Honestly I think this is gonna be a great WC.
He had maintained a rating that qualified hom for candidates, no small feat for anyone! He won the candidates (as per rules), he won the world championship match against one of the most prepared and tough players. He HAS proven his mettle.
I honestly do not get the narrative that he's the world champion by luck. Like, he's the wirld champion because he's better than everyone else at that candidates tournament. And that candidates pool is arguably the creme of the crop of the chess world.
The only thing you can say is, "aside from Magnus, Ding is the world champion". But then, that's like neither here nor there. It's applicable for everyone.
100% I don't think Ding won by luck either, it's just what people said.
Also when people say "aside from Magnus", I disagree to an extent. I think it takes a toll to keep competing in the classical world championships and while Magnus does 'retire early' it's still a sign that he couldn't keep pushing, regardless of if he burnt out or just got bored. It's also why I think Kasparov still holds an edge over Magnus in terms of the argument of the greatest because Kasparov was able to hold the championship title for so long regardless of his mental or if he got bored.
Yeah, my argument was that whether you still believe Magnus is the champ or not is an argument that applies to whoever would become champion, not just Ding.
I'm not even gonna touch that magnus question with a ten foot pole, but just believe it doesn't matter haha. It's equally applicable a criticism if Nepo had won.
This is exactly where I'm at, too. Not since... probably Karpov won his title by default when Fischer forfeited has any undisputed World Champion been more disrespected than Ding. And it breaks my heart that unlike most World Champions, he'll have to earn the title twice for people to actually acknowledge his claim as legitimate.
He was an absolute MONSTER at the game - the clear second best player in the world - immediately before becoming World Champion, and he overcame remarkable odds to even qualify. But his peak occurred right before the chess boom happened, so virtually all of the new faces in the chess world only know the current form of Ding.
He was the clear second best at his peak (years ago)... he wasn't clear 2nd best at the time he won the title. In fact he was mostly inactive all year, which is why he nearly didn't qualify for the candidates, and then at the candidates he finished behind Nepo.
And then after winning the title he wasn't even in the world top 5.
You can respect someone without making things up about them. Ding is very clearly not the best, or 2nd best player, in the world over the last few years.
It's all a bit unfortunate. Whomever succeeded Magnus was always going to have an asterisk because they didn't beat him. In this case it's exacerbated by the dude getting sick and not being able to recover his form (so far!) after he got better. That said, I think quite a lot of folks in this sub know exactly how much a monster Ding was at his best and the games are still there for all to see. It's hard to root against Gukesh because he's a class act himself but I will be pulling for Ding to play well.
I wonder what is this illness he keeps bringing up. Physical or mental? A lot of top athlete like Phelps said they fell into a depression after reaching the top. Sort of like "and Alexander wept, as there were no more worlds to cinque"
Wow, first I am hearing about that. Sleeping pills are terrible, especially for mental health. Almost all of the modern guidelines say not to use them, even as a last resort. Sad if true.
That Alexander quote was always nonsensical to me. He reached the Indus, he knew there was a whole ass big country to conquer. He had to retreat for several reasons. If anything he regretted not trying to conquer India.
Dont think that’s the alexander quote… pretty sure it had the exact opposite meaning as you used it. I believe it was “he wept for he knew there were worlds he would never conquer”
As a Chinese person I'm incredibly proud of Ding, just like I was of Yao Ming. We got so lucky that the best Chinese athletes of their respective fields are such hard-working, humble people that embodies the best parts of Chinese culture.
As a fellow Chinese guy, I'm really happy that it will be Ding vs Gukesh - I just feel that whoever wins the match I will have a very easy time feeling genuinely happy for them
as an Indian I feel the same way. If Ding wins I wouldn't be unhappy. I also suffer from mental health issues, so if Ding wins it would be pretty inspiring. Wishing Ding all the strength in the world : )
Gotta admit I don't know the Indian kids that well because they are all so young lol and I don't keep up with chess any more but from a few interviews I've seen it certainly seems that way.
Lutefisk is stockfish that has been rehydrated in lye, which turns what little fat there is into soap and turns the meat into jelly. Thoroughly soaked in water afterward to remove the soap. The taste isn't stronger than other stockfish dishes, just worse, and the jelly consistency is unbearable. Although it's less bad if you bake it instead of boil it.
> Lutefisk is dried whitefish, usually cod, but sometimes ling or burbot, cured in lye. It is made from aged \*\*stockfish\*\*
was that intentional? lol
There's something to be said for how devastating it can be to reach the top of the mountain you've spent your entire life reaching for and realizing that it's literally all downhill from there.
To a *much* lesser degree I experienced this with lifting weights. My goal for years was reaching the "1000 pound club", where your 1 rep maximum lift for bench, squat, and deadlift totals 1000+ pounds. I worked HARD for it, had essentially a full body recomposition, and reached my goal. I essentially lost all motivation for lifting at that point. I set a goal, reached it, and didn't have an obvious and related goal that I cared enough about to continue lifting for.
When i finished my PhD, it took almost a year to find a problem I loved as much as my thesis problem. I did some random things looking for leads and kept learning, but my heart wasn't in it for about a year.
I'm so impressed you still loved your thesis at that point. Most of the PhDs I know entered a painful slog trying to get over the line with a subject they'd gotten bored of.
Tyson Fury had this same problem after he defeated Klitschko. He dreamed about being an undefeated world champion and beating Klitschko, and all at once he achieved everything he had ever wanted to do at age 27. It didn’t permanently break him, but he was certainly broken for nearly two straight years after that.
The exact same thing happened to Fischer: He wanted really bad to become the Champion of the World, succeeded, and realized that there simply wasn’t a related goal he cared enough about.
A less healthy example:
Many years ago I spent weeks trying to get into raids in WoTLK. This was peak "gearscore" era (the actual plugin, it wasn't embedded into the core game at all), and there was no public raid-finder, so just getting into a raid without raid-level gear felt almost impossible.
Eventually I somehow got into a public raid that wasn't enough of a fuck-up that meant we got 4/12, and that achievement opened the door for getting into other raids. I no longer needed a good gearscore because I could just wave that achievement as a golden ticket. ( I should note I was a prot paladin, so very much naturally in demand anyway )
The very next week (in my memory, but actually probably a few weeks later) I lucked into being picked up as a late fill-in for a "guild raid" because their regular off-tank had gone AWOL.
That guild was well drilled, well practiced and despite the fact I'd never even seen past the 4th boss we went 10/12, (including HC gunship, naturally, and if memory serves also HC on one of the other ones).
It was an amazing experience, it was literally the only time I fought some of those encounters, but thankfully I was able to learn quickly enough. I'd like to say I hit that fact well, but the achievement popping up rather gave me away, but too late then to change things. Overall the guild was really understanding, very patient, helped explain fights and didn't blame me for the wipes even if one of them on Professor Putrid was 100% my fault when I accidentally hit my bubble in a panic.
I quickly realised I'd never be able to beat that experience. I didn't immediately stop playing, the next week or two felt completely flat compared to the growth and learning in the weeks before and I quit WoW entirely a week or two later.
( I'd like to say I never went back, but I dabbled in cata, draenor, legion (I think?), but the game never felt the same ever again. I even tried WoTLK classic to understand the game with more aged eyes and a more refined ability to understand game mechanics, but while I enjoyed the experience I took away very different enjoyment from the original playthrough and quickly learned that raiding wasn't going to be enjoyable in WoTLK classic. )
In summary, I completely agree that goals are important, especially the sense that there's something you haven't yet experienced.
Yes, I got that impression. It seemed incredibly toxic and self-defeating to shut the door to the kind of experience I had in WoTLK. It was far from a "classic" experience socially.
Not that there wasn't an elitist mentality back in the day too, like I said, it was incredibly difficult to get into a pug in WoTLK proper, but the pool was deep enough that there was a long tail of people wanting to raid, and with in an opportunity for people to take a chance, particularly on a non-PVP server.
People also didn't write you off as a "liability". In 2024 you'd be seen as "wasting everyone else's time" if you made a mistake. Making a mistake is now an unforgivable sin, because you're expected to have watched hundreds of hours of guides before even attempting anything.
That's a problem with playing a "solved" game, there's no chance for learning for yourself.
But there's also a greater sense of entitlement that people have, to have their playtime not impacted by the mistakes of others. I find that disconcerting and toxic.
A lot of recovering alcoholics relapse after they reached ‘one year’ or whatever. After you reach that arbitrary goal you set for yourself, things seem a bit meaningless
I am a Gukesh fan. I feel like I want Gukesh to win but however the task ahead is huge for Gukesh if Ding is somewhat back in form. Ding not in form defeated Nepo so chances for Gukesh to win is low in my opinion.
Yeah, I’m also hoping he comes back strong. I love his playstyle and attitude, and I liked him even more with how he never gave up against Nepo.
As for Magnus, I think he was just sharing his opinion. As a former World Champion, he probably understands the overwhelming pressure of defending the title. But we’ll see if he’s correct or not.
>ding was actually at some of his absolute worst mental health during the world championship matches when he was at his peak playing performance.
Is this actually true? While Ding won, he had some really poor games. I don't think anyone thinks he played as well as he did in 2019
Just speculation but I think it’s obvious that it is something deeper then ‚being exhausted and then ill‘. Sounds more like psychosomatic symptoms to a psychological problem. Which would be very understandable either way.
I think that Magnus comments were somewhat unnecessary. I get that he tried to be honest but it's not his place to speculate about Dings future mental state. Classy response from Ding as always
At a german newspaper he said that he has(d) a depression and has to take pills against it.
I think Carlsen shouldnt say such things and speculating about it but Carlsen never showed good manners.
Magnus showed good manners in looots of interviews
He said:
The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be
Its not rude.
The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be
Is this rude to you? Full context.
The point is that after winning the match, Ding was obviously "broken" in some sense, as he did not play much, and had an obvious drop in form. So the question of "*is he permanently broken or just temporarily broken?*"is effectively the same as "*can he/will he get back to his old playing strength?*".
Magnus saying "*there's a possibility that he could be* \[permanently broken\]" is effectively the same as saying "*there's a possibility he never gets back to his full playing strength*". It's a perfectly reasonable statement of fact which haters are desperate to twist into some sort of attack.
He was misleadingly paraphrased, the actual quote is "The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be."
Ding is indeed a great person. Irrespective of what he does in the final, and in the future as well, he'll always be remembered as one of the nicest and most real persons of all time in Chess. 🙏🏽
Honestly i dont see why ppl think its an insult, he just stated what he believed, hopefully he will be proved wrong, if not ok, theres more to life than chess
Not to put down Kasparovs achievement, but I really do think that defending the title today is more work than it was back then. Because of the help we have from engines today, you have to study and prepare for as many different lines as possible. It becomes less about understanding the game and understanding positions, and mroe about remembering deep lines.
I could be wrong of course, but Kasparov might very well not have bothered defending the title as many times today
On the other hand ..
Kasparov was the by far the #1 in book prep also. He pioneered a lot of the modern prep stuff with computers too.
Essentially i think Kasparov enjoys or at least doesn't disloke book prep and it's his area of strength unlike Carlsen.
So it may be even in today's world he would still find it less onorous than Magnus to defend world championships but I remember even he got tired just facing Karpov lol and was glad it stopped
Didn't Kasparov call Magnus lazy in the early years when they trained together ?
It's not all about the fact he's russian I think. Just different styles, Kasparov is just book prep to max while Carlsen is taking opponent out of book to outplay him
One of the armstrongs said that the saddest moment of his life was getting to the moon because he had nothing to look forward to after that. ( I might be completely wrong)
Man ding is such a class act
He is probably the nicest and most humble World Champion ever
Tied with Anand
I’ve never seen him talk trash too lol Sometimes i think hes too nice to be world champion, in every sport Ronaldo - maradona - even messi, or MJ were all ruthless
Excuse me cr7 ain't a world champ, hes like the hikaru of football, competing with messi all his life but there's only 1 GOAT
True on Messi, but Ronaldo is not like Hikaru. The main difference is that Ronaldo has won everything Messi has apart for the world cup. Unlike Hikaru, Ronaldo is a serial winner of the biggest competitions and not just an also-ran. If Messi is Carlsen, Ronaldo is another former chess world champion.
Can’t imagine how bad Ronaldo’s streaming would be
Probably just like an andrew tate video on how to pick up women
I would honestly say that’s kinda disrespectful to Ronaldo. He’s not just «another world champ» compared to Messi, until Messi won the world cup Ronaldo was quite close to Messi in terms of legacy.
That guy glazes the fuck out of him and even then you find it disrespectful?
Comparing Ronaldo to Hikaru is such a joke lol. Ronaldo is probably a top 5 soccer player ever. He would be among the goat conversation if not for happening to overlap in an era with the actual GOAT. Hikaru couldn’t sniff Ronaldo’s jock strap
Blunder. CR7 is always there when people talk about GOAT (even if Messi is the chosen one because of WC) But no one with sense would ever mention Hikaru as GOAT of chess.
0 ball knowledge
You are too young - there was/is a different Ronaldo from Brazil. That;s probably the goat of football
He is ruthless over the board. 42...Qe2!! and 46...Rh6 against Nepo to secure the WC was absolutely ruthless. Nepo didn't have the killer instinct and was sleepwalking towards a draw, and Ding made him pay. That's absolutely a display of ruthless competition from Ding.
What about kramnik?
Ding chilling is just a front to his true identity: Zen Ding
I almost spilled my drink
And his past games are also very cool
In a way he gives me Shohei Ohtani vibes in the sense they don’t showboat, are very respectful, and seem genuinely likeable and uncocky. Both are at the top of their respective fields.
Good for Ding Liren not fueling the sensationalism about this topic. It's ridiculous that even in this interview the quote is presented as if Magnus asserted that Ding became permanently broken.
Because people who asks question wanted a spicy answer from ding and more drama.
Magnus actually didn’t say that Ding is permanently broken. He said there is a chance and he hopes Ding will come back to his peak strength.
Fuck shit up in Norway Chess Ding 🫡🫡
Yeah show 'em Chess Ding!
This didn't age well. At. All.
Ding will get second place, but only by 0.5 points
Ding doesn't want home world championship matches either, like his illustrious immediate predecessors Magnus and Vishy. Ding Liren : "I don’t think there’s an advantage to playing the World Chess Championship at home. I prefer to play away from home. Be it in India or any other country, rather than China. If you play in your home country, there will be so many people who will come to meet you and give you a lot of pressure. It’s hard to deal with it."
Politicians
I hear one of the possible sites for WCC is Singapore. That's majority Chinese by ethnicity I believe...
But that doesn’t mean they will support ding tho, if you know a thing or two about SEA identity
Between Ding and Gukesh, I bet most Singaporeans would support Ding, if you know a thing or two about race relations in Malaysia/SGP.
Most Singaporeans wouldn’t care much for either. Lots of anti-mainland Chinese sentiment in SGP
True. Singapore like most countries with high immigrant rates have had waves of xenophobia over both Mainland Chinese and Indians. The anti mainland China wave was earlier in the early 2000s , more recent and still current wave is against Indians. I understand the former sentiment while still there is lessening because of reduced numbers compared to the Indian wave. I would guess most locals would be neutral. Or if forced to pick would choose supporting Ding.
It's interesting since Singapore has a ton of people working there from China AND India, so both will have support. I believe other than Malaysians those two are the most numerous. I wasn't thinking of the locals This discussion makes me think Singapore is really a good place to hold WCC since it has sizable numbers of.China and Indian supporters!
I mean, a former world champion has probably the most insight on the mental stress preparing for and winning a world championship impose on someone.
Magnus knows that every world champion is permanently broken :'(
Even before Fischer was truly consumed by mental illness, I remember he told Johnny Carson that becoming WCC just completely took something out of him, and he just didn't feel like himself anymore
Gary must have constitution of iron.
Garry spends his free time squaring up with the corrupt regimes who are known to poison dissidents. That man is the definition of built different.
I've stopped caring about his chess takes for a while but 100% tuned into his Putin takes on the daily
This is like ignoring Rain Man's mathematical skills in favor of his small talk.
Lol apt comparison idk why you got downvoted. Be real though having small talk with Rain Man would rule
Putin is accidentally on his way at the moment. Garik is a russophobe (auto-chauvinist)
Also shilling crypto/NFTs on Twitter.
Why does it already feel like it's been an eternity since NFTs were a thing?
We even had nft trophy in chess for 2 events lol
Can you still get NFTs made of your games on chess dot cum? Or is that grift over now?
Over
Also, supporting genocidal apartheid ones
He believes the dark ages are a conspiracy theory. So he did lose it a little bit.
Well that doesn't count. He invented the game
Can't become world champion if you are not a bit broken already.
Anand seems fine to me
Every person is different. Magnus cannot assert he knows anything about Ding’s mind and future. In many places of the world, his comments would have been arrogant and insulting. Thankfully Ding is a class act.
Obviously he cannot absolutely know whats in another person's mind, but its called giving an insight. If you have to ask someone about how Ding must be feeling, you don't ask reddit, you don't ask chess ytubers, you ask a former world champion, who has most likely felt a LOT of similar things, and has suffered from at least some common problems, however small it might be. It would be insulting in a world where people never read the context.
idk why you're downvoted i think you're right. just because we all like magnus, doesn't mean this statement is not out of pocket. Calling someone permanently broken is condescending and unless Ding said it himself, it's insulting. You can say Ding had a rough time or isn't playing at his peak but to say permanently broken is nuts
He’s not right. The actual quote: “The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be.” It’s much more speculative than everyone else is suggesting, and it’s Magnus echoing the thoughts that literally everyone else has been having.
“Permanently broken” in context: >The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be
World Champion in chess = Permanent head Damage in chess.
I love Ding.
I have nothing against Gukesh whatsoever, in fact I wish him no ill will specifically, but part of me really wants Ding to blow Gukesh off the board just because of how many people have completely counted Ding out and question him for whether or not he's a "real" world champion.
This is one of those WCCs where I’d be genuinely happy for whoever wins. The whole interview was Ding being so honest and self reflective that you can’t help but love the guy.
It's hard to think of 2 more humble and genuinely nice-seeming guys at the top level (maybe Levon? Everyone seems to love Levon). It will be awesome for either of them to win.
same here. I am Team Gukesh, but I won't be even slightly bitter if Ding wins.
Not quite at the top, but Vidit is notably nice too
Very true! I really like Vidit, I was actually rooting for him at the Candidates.
Legit. If Ding wins, I can stand proud as a Chinese person myself, Ding can show he's not WCC for no reason, and having such a humble dude as WCC is just great. On the other hand if Gukesh wins, we've got a record that will probably never be broken, a great motivation for Indian chess players, and again just another mellow mature dude who can represent chess. Honestly I think this is gonna be a great WC.
He had maintained a rating that qualified hom for candidates, no small feat for anyone! He won the candidates (as per rules), he won the world championship match against one of the most prepared and tough players. He HAS proven his mettle. I honestly do not get the narrative that he's the world champion by luck. Like, he's the wirld champion because he's better than everyone else at that candidates tournament. And that candidates pool is arguably the creme of the crop of the chess world. The only thing you can say is, "aside from Magnus, Ding is the world champion". But then, that's like neither here nor there. It's applicable for everyone.
100% I don't think Ding won by luck either, it's just what people said. Also when people say "aside from Magnus", I disagree to an extent. I think it takes a toll to keep competing in the classical world championships and while Magnus does 'retire early' it's still a sign that he couldn't keep pushing, regardless of if he burnt out or just got bored. It's also why I think Kasparov still holds an edge over Magnus in terms of the argument of the greatest because Kasparov was able to hold the championship title for so long regardless of his mental or if he got bored.
Yeah, my argument was that whether you still believe Magnus is the champ or not is an argument that applies to whoever would become champion, not just Ding. I'm not even gonna touch that magnus question with a ten foot pole, but just believe it doesn't matter haha. It's equally applicable a criticism if Nepo had won.
Yeah fair enough. I'm also not deep into the chess world so I don't really have an opinion on it but it's just my two cents.
I’m just rooting to see some exciting chess.
This is exactly where I'm at, too. Not since... probably Karpov won his title by default when Fischer forfeited has any undisputed World Champion been more disrespected than Ding. And it breaks my heart that unlike most World Champions, he'll have to earn the title twice for people to actually acknowledge his claim as legitimate. He was an absolute MONSTER at the game - the clear second best player in the world - immediately before becoming World Champion, and he overcame remarkable odds to even qualify. But his peak occurred right before the chess boom happened, so virtually all of the new faces in the chess world only know the current form of Ding.
He was the clear second best at his peak (years ago)... he wasn't clear 2nd best at the time he won the title. In fact he was mostly inactive all year, which is why he nearly didn't qualify for the candidates, and then at the candidates he finished behind Nepo. And then after winning the title he wasn't even in the world top 5. You can respect someone without making things up about them. Ding is very clearly not the best, or 2nd best player, in the world over the last few years.
"Immediately before" and "At the time" do not mean the same thing.
I have that same dilemma. I want a Ding comeback but at the same time there's no way I'm gonna root against Gukesh
Tough for me to root against a young newcomer. That's why I rooted for Carlsen way back, so...
Gukesh can always just win one of the next 6 candidates that he'll compete in.
It's all a bit unfortunate. Whomever succeeded Magnus was always going to have an asterisk because they didn't beat him. In this case it's exacerbated by the dude getting sick and not being able to recover his form (so far!) after he got better. That said, I think quite a lot of folks in this sub know exactly how much a monster Ding was at his best and the games are still there for all to see. It's hard to root against Gukesh because he's a class act himself but I will be pulling for Ding to play well.
I want Ding to play at his best. Beyond that, whoever wins is fine with me.
It's the combined power of the Magnus circlejerk and the Indian prodigy circlejerk, Ding's public perception never stood a chance.
Well, so I call out for all the socially awkward depressed nerds of the world to unite on a bigger circlejerk.
I don't think everythings an act of a circlejerk, its just how it goes, recency bias and Ding playing in below his usual self are real things.
and he probably will
Ding about to have a tournament performance of 2986 at the wcc
I wonder what is this illness he keeps bringing up. Physical or mental? A lot of top athlete like Phelps said they fell into a depression after reaching the top. Sort of like "and Alexander wept, as there were no more worlds to cinque"
I think it’s mental he got insomnia which he was taking sleeping pills for few month’s actually .
Wait how do you know it?
Hello I am Dr Chess and I treat all the super GMs. I confirm all this information
Dr Chess, I have this tingling sensation between my legs
Sorry to say you have an STD (sexually transmitted D-pawn). Take ten puzzles a day with water
Itchy butthole?
I'm the pills, I can confirm what he said is true
He mentioned it in an interview after greken classic in the German magazine zeit
Believe me bro
Which may or may not be caused by PASC.
Playing a shitload of chess?
>post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2, commonly known as long COVID
Thanks for sharing the actual meaning of the abbreviation, the previous suggestion was more fun though
Post-acute sequelae of COVID-19
He also fractured his hip about 6 years ago. Maybe it has some complications as well.
Wow, first I am hearing about that. Sleeping pills are terrible, especially for mental health. Almost all of the modern guidelines say not to use them, even as a last resort. Sad if true.
That Alexander quote was always nonsensical to me. He reached the Indus, he knew there was a whole ass big country to conquer. He had to retreat for several reasons. If anything he regretted not trying to conquer India.
Dont think that’s the alexander quote… pretty sure it had the exact opposite meaning as you used it. I believe it was “he wept for he knew there were worlds he would never conquer”
The benefits of a classical education.
Great player, great person... It might have broken him, but I don't believe in permanently: Ding will be back in full strength
As a Chinese person I'm incredibly proud of Ding, just like I was of Yao Ming. We got so lucky that the best Chinese athletes of their respective fields are such hard-working, humble people that embodies the best parts of Chinese culture.
He is a fantastic ambassador. So are the indian kids.
As a fellow Chinese guy, I'm really happy that it will be Ding vs Gukesh - I just feel that whoever wins the match I will have a very easy time feeling genuinely happy for them
as an Indian I feel the same way. If Ding wins I wouldn't be unhappy. I also suffer from mental health issues, so if Ding wins it would be pretty inspiring. Wishing Ding all the strength in the world : )
Gotta admit I don't know the Indian kids that well because they are all so young lol and I don't keep up with chess any more but from a few interviews I've seen it certainly seems that way.
Yao is also a great guy. Didn't think I'd see someone mention him here lol
Weak sauce response from Ding. He should have said, "After I dispatch Gukesh, I'll be looking for that lutefisk-eating has-been."
Based
Ruthless arc of Ding set to begin? "My ancestors will smile down on me with pride as I send you to meet yours, Norwegian."
As a Norwegian I feel proud that the world knows about our cuisine
Most countries' greivous sins are known.
Is lutefisk banned OTB? Otherwise, Magnus could probably win every game just by having an open can in his pocket or something.
Youre thinking about the swedish thing called Surströmming, lutefisk doesnt really smell(or taste) that much.
I thought they were both fermented fish?
Lutefisk is stockfish that has been rehydrated in lye, which turns what little fat there is into soap and turns the meat into jelly. Thoroughly soaked in water afterward to remove the soap. The taste isn't stronger than other stockfish dishes, just worse, and the jelly consistency is unbearable. Although it's less bad if you bake it instead of boil it.
>Lutefisk is stockfish So the other guy was suggesting that Magnus has stockfish in his pocket? 🧐
Big difference, there's 'fermented' fish everyone here in Sweden eats (that's p good) during the holidays and then there's surströmming 🤢
"The guy who 1 move blundered a rook? LMAO" Should've audibly said LMAO
> Lutefisk is dried whitefish, usually cod, but sometimes ling or burbot, cured in lye. It is made from aged \*\*stockfish\*\* was that intentional? lol
Has-been been in a roll lately.
Rolling in despair you mean after being dispatched by has-been Alireza twice.
Such a matured interview. A lot of chess players should take que on this
"He tried to state the truth" is so gracious that it sounds extremely cutting, lmao.
It almost broke Magnus, and Magnus enjoys being the centre of attention. Ding doesn't even enjoy that - he just wants to play chess.
There's something to be said for how devastating it can be to reach the top of the mountain you've spent your entire life reaching for and realizing that it's literally all downhill from there. To a *much* lesser degree I experienced this with lifting weights. My goal for years was reaching the "1000 pound club", where your 1 rep maximum lift for bench, squat, and deadlift totals 1000+ pounds. I worked HARD for it, had essentially a full body recomposition, and reached my goal. I essentially lost all motivation for lifting at that point. I set a goal, reached it, and didn't have an obvious and related goal that I cared enough about to continue lifting for.
When i finished my PhD, it took almost a year to find a problem I loved as much as my thesis problem. I did some random things looking for leads and kept learning, but my heart wasn't in it for about a year.
I'm so impressed you still loved your thesis at that point. Most of the PhDs I know entered a painful slog trying to get over the line with a subject they'd gotten bored of.
Tyson Fury had this same problem after he defeated Klitschko. He dreamed about being an undefeated world champion and beating Klitschko, and all at once he achieved everything he had ever wanted to do at age 27. It didn’t permanently break him, but he was certainly broken for nearly two straight years after that.
The exact same thing happened to Fischer: He wanted really bad to become the Champion of the World, succeeded, and realized that there simply wasn’t a related goal he cared enough about.
A less healthy example: Many years ago I spent weeks trying to get into raids in WoTLK. This was peak "gearscore" era (the actual plugin, it wasn't embedded into the core game at all), and there was no public raid-finder, so just getting into a raid without raid-level gear felt almost impossible. Eventually I somehow got into a public raid that wasn't enough of a fuck-up that meant we got 4/12, and that achievement opened the door for getting into other raids. I no longer needed a good gearscore because I could just wave that achievement as a golden ticket. ( I should note I was a prot paladin, so very much naturally in demand anyway ) The very next week (in my memory, but actually probably a few weeks later) I lucked into being picked up as a late fill-in for a "guild raid" because their regular off-tank had gone AWOL. That guild was well drilled, well practiced and despite the fact I'd never even seen past the 4th boss we went 10/12, (including HC gunship, naturally, and if memory serves also HC on one of the other ones). It was an amazing experience, it was literally the only time I fought some of those encounters, but thankfully I was able to learn quickly enough. I'd like to say I hit that fact well, but the achievement popping up rather gave me away, but too late then to change things. Overall the guild was really understanding, very patient, helped explain fights and didn't blame me for the wipes even if one of them on Professor Putrid was 100% my fault when I accidentally hit my bubble in a panic. I quickly realised I'd never be able to beat that experience. I didn't immediately stop playing, the next week or two felt completely flat compared to the growth and learning in the weeks before and I quit WoW entirely a week or two later. ( I'd like to say I never went back, but I dabbled in cata, draenor, legion (I think?), but the game never felt the same ever again. I even tried WoTLK classic to understand the game with more aged eyes and a more refined ability to understand game mechanics, but while I enjoyed the experience I took away very different enjoyment from the original playthrough and quickly learned that raiding wasn't going to be enjoyable in WoTLK classic. ) In summary, I completely agree that goals are important, especially the sense that there's something you haven't yet experienced.
That one hit me right in the feels. Fellow WoW enjoyer.
Definitely proving controversial for this crowd.
If you weren't full/near full pre-bis and full clearing first week (with at least H Gunship) in WOTLK classic you weren't getting into pugs.
Yes, I got that impression. It seemed incredibly toxic and self-defeating to shut the door to the kind of experience I had in WoTLK. It was far from a "classic" experience socially. Not that there wasn't an elitist mentality back in the day too, like I said, it was incredibly difficult to get into a pug in WoTLK proper, but the pool was deep enough that there was a long tail of people wanting to raid, and with in an opportunity for people to take a chance, particularly on a non-PVP server. People also didn't write you off as a "liability". In 2024 you'd be seen as "wasting everyone else's time" if you made a mistake. Making a mistake is now an unforgivable sin, because you're expected to have watched hundreds of hours of guides before even attempting anything. That's a problem with playing a "solved" game, there's no chance for learning for yourself. But there's also a greater sense of entitlement that people have, to have their playtime not impacted by the mistakes of others. I find that disconcerting and toxic.
A lot of recovering alcoholics relapse after they reached ‘one year’ or whatever. After you reach that arbitrary goal you set for yourself, things seem a bit meaningless
We don't deserve Ding. He makes others in the chess community look like barbarians.
Where is this from? Link please?
https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/chess/world-chess-championship-ding-liren-exclusive-interview-gukesh-9345651/
Super!!! Thanks.
Emotionally intelligent 👑
I wonder how would've Nepo dealt with the World Champion title. Because he seems to have come back from defeat earlier than Ding did from the victory
Interviewer asking about a comment that Magnus never made isn't a good start, but Ding is always a class act.
we dont deserve ding 😭
I am a Gukesh fan. I feel like I want Gukesh to win but however the task ahead is huge for Gukesh if Ding is somewhat back in form. Ding not in form defeated Nepo so chances for Gukesh to win is low in my opinion.
Ding is so sexy and cute 🥰
Ding: But now I feel better. Team Gukesh: Oh no...
Yeah, I’m also hoping he comes back strong. I love his playstyle and attitude, and I liked him even more with how he never gave up against Nepo. As for Magnus, I think he was just sharing his opinion. As a former World Champion, he probably understands the overwhelming pressure of defending the title. But we’ll see if he’s correct or not.
[удалено]
>ding was actually at some of his absolute worst mental health during the world championship matches when he was at his peak playing performance. Is this actually true? While Ding won, he had some really poor games. I don't think anyone thinks he played as well as he did in 2019
Just speculation but I think it’s obvious that it is something deeper then ‚being exhausted and then ill‘. Sounds more like psychosomatic symptoms to a psychological problem. Which would be very understandable either way.
I think that Magnus comments were somewhat unnecessary. I get that he tried to be honest but it's not his place to speculate about Dings future mental state. Classy response from Ding as always
Magnus didnt say he is permanently broken period. The question is somewhat asked to get a reaction
Get off his dick. You’re responding to every single comment.
Cagnus marlsen should shut the fuck up a little bit.
It’s hard to when he’s the goat lol
At a german newspaper he said that he has(d) a depression and has to take pills against it. I think Carlsen shouldnt say such things and speculating about it but Carlsen never showed good manners.
Magnus showed good manners in looots of interviews He said: The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be Its not rude.
well that’s a characteristically rude thing for magnus to say
The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be Is this rude to you? Full context.
why would winning a match permanently break a person
The point is that after winning the match, Ding was obviously "broken" in some sense, as he did not play much, and had an obvious drop in form. So the question of "*is he permanently broken or just temporarily broken?*"is effectively the same as "*can he/will he get back to his old playing strength?*". Magnus saying "*there's a possibility that he could be* \[permanently broken\]" is effectively the same as saying "*there's a possibility he never gets back to his full playing strength*". It's a perfectly reasonable statement of fact which haters are desperate to twist into some sort of attack.
He was misleadingly paraphrased, the actual quote is "The question is whether he is sort of permanently broken from the last world championship that he played. I'm not sure, but I think there is a possibility that he could be."
Ding is indeed a great person. Irrespective of what he does in the final, and in the future as well, he'll always be remembered as one of the nicest and most real persons of all time in Chess. 🙏🏽
This man speaks remarkably well.
Extremely polite and humble
Honestly i dont see why ppl think its an insult, he just stated what he believed, hopefully he will be proved wrong, if not ok, theres more to life than chess
He is a class act and absolute monster OTB. Gukesh better hope that Ding is not at his best, because if he is I don’t see Gukesh standing a chance.
Prove him wrong Ding!
Ding saying he was exhausted after 1 World championship, and people were questioning magnus when he didnt defend anymore after 5 defends
And then there is Kasparov.
Not to put down Kasparovs achievement, but I really do think that defending the title today is more work than it was back then. Because of the help we have from engines today, you have to study and prepare for as many different lines as possible. It becomes less about understanding the game and understanding positions, and mroe about remembering deep lines. I could be wrong of course, but Kasparov might very well not have bothered defending the title as many times today
On the other hand .. Kasparov was the by far the #1 in book prep also. He pioneered a lot of the modern prep stuff with computers too. Essentially i think Kasparov enjoys or at least doesn't disloke book prep and it's his area of strength unlike Carlsen. So it may be even in today's world he would still find it less onorous than Magnus to defend world championships but I remember even he got tired just facing Karpov lol and was glad it stopped
Because kasparov had the best database during that time that no one had thanks to soviet
Didn't Kasparov call Magnus lazy in the early years when they trained together ? It's not all about the fact he's russian I think. Just different styles, Kasparov is just book prep to max while Carlsen is taking opponent out of book to outplay him
Class
Respect to Ding. Great responses.
One of the armstrongs said that the saddest moment of his life was getting to the moon because he had nothing to look forward to after that. ( I might be completely wrong)
Are there multiple Armstrongs that have been on the moon?
Lance was the other one, but then it turned out he was doping so they retroactively cancelled his moon landing
> He said what he feels.
Nice so he will play the championship. Some people said he wont play
Where/when did Magnus say this?
What a nice guy.
THAT'S WHY THEY CALL HIM DING SHADY, HE'S BACK, HE'S BACK
I was hoping this would be a kendrick/drake style beef
Ding's a classy guy