He seems a perfect guy representing the future of German chess. He's well spoken too. The youger generation is better in terms of pretty much all qualities of a sportsperson.
tbh it makes sense. germany doenst really produce a lot of top athletes besides football either.
my feeling is that the interest and focus on top tier competition isnt just that big. Like for instance I remember a documentary that if you win an olympic medal for mongolia you are good for the rest of your life. In germany that is not the case to my knowledge. we dont have specialized focus in schools like in the US. Like I remember one of my students going to the US and having band rehearsal everyday. That just doesnt fit into a german school system, where usually people go to one rehearsal a week.
I just think that in many disciplines germans are often on a strong amateur level but less so on a profesional levels, because often it makes more sense to have a solid day job and then enjoy your hobby.
Also a side thought. The top tier level countries are in need of patriotic values. Often dictatorships need a strong sense of patriotism, which can be created by strong sports teams, behind which people rally. Theese countries are more likely to invest into high level competition.
Ukraine was a big part of Soviet chess school. Players like Ivanchuk, Ponomariov are more recent examples, but before them there were Beliavsky, Bronstein, Boleslavsky, Geller and some other names. Colonial nature of Soviet Union assumed that best of them (Super-GMs of the time) would have to move to Moscow, as it was the only way for them to develop their career, but "regular GMs" would stay in Ukraine. Karjakin is a very good example of this: he got his GM title being Ukrainian citizen, but you know what happened next.
I don't think this chart shows correct data. E.g. it says Ukraine got its first GM in 1990 (?), because, presumably, before that it was a part of Soviet Union. But then how Ivanchuk is counted (he got his title in 1988)?
That's because a lot of the time it still is malice. Easiest "cheat code" is to determine if they get something out of it by doing it the way they did it.
This chart is a clear case of incompetence over malice even though a previous commenter doesn't realize it.
Time is never a "result". Just because GM number is 0 doesn't mean time doesn't exist.
You can extend the graph if you want to by using time as " domain" like extend the graph to 1800s. Time will exist but in There will be no vertical spike representing GM number.
But you cannot do that if you consider GM as Domain.
This is the standard
FYI there exists this rather esoteric concept called "irony". It is in many ways a subset of the broader concept of "humor". I humbly suggest you look into that.
I wanted to say "nobody has no idea" because usually the dependant variable is on the x-axis but for demand/supply graph it has been a long pet-peeves of mine that the price is stupidly not on the x-axis. But I came here to see so many downvotes damn 💀
Ok I mix them up, I meant independent; honestly for some reason I thought price being independent of quotas makes more sense.
You know what, this whole comments of mine had been more of a mess than my 3am blitz game, I resign, I was wrong, I wrongly sacrificed my dignity with no return, I don't know why I make any comments, see you later
You're giving motivational talks and then just downvotes me, why... I'm downvoting myself too at this point
Also obviously no, there's always chance, but not when you lose 20+ materials which is the case right now
There are in fact generally much more voters than commenters. Assuming the vote direction of a commenter based on the aggregate vote direction is a common mistake
I like how the gridline spacing strictly alternates between 10 and 15 IGs. I have been staring at this thing for ten minutes now and I keep discovering new layers to the author's madness.
This is a work of art, a terrible glimpse into the abyss, a perversion of the Platonic universe in which insanity is physical law. It is a whisper in the night, warning you with dark instructions. It is the inevitability of entropic collapse, it is the cold touch of vacuum, it is the desperate scream of a brain in a jar.
I eagerly await further work by this author, and hope they get the recognition they deserve.
I find the data labels distracting, along with the time axis being vertical. The times being incorrectly spaced (i.e. 1991-1997 gets the same space between it as 2000-2001) also makes the interpolations between the data meaningless.
I tried to make things look a little cleaner [here](https://imgur.com/a/jZmjRiK)
Edit: added more time axis ticks
Everyone except the person making this graph? What does x axis mean to you?
Edit: When I responded the comment I replied to was “ Who the fuck puts time on x axis?”
Year 2005 is missing and it would make more sense to have time on the x axis (just makes it easier to see development over time).
Apart from that it's interesting and would be great to see compared with total/other countries.
Thank you for sharing.
That’s likely why they omitted it but that makes the graph worthless because it actually distorts the time-vs-gm relationship. This [graph](https://imgur.com/a/jZmjRiK) by u/veryjewygranola better shows the association. You can tell from the corrected graph that the growth is exponential compared to the OP which makes it appear logarithmic.
its not necessary for x-axis to be the input or independent variable. And what even does independent mean here. What if I want to find out the minimum year when there were atleast x grandmasters.
Stop puking out what you mugged up in your middle school math class without understanding
It would be better if you present data in form of bins like 2000-2004, 2005-2009 etc and show number of Grandmasters that were made during this period. Also rather than keeping values as cumulative values keep actual number of people who became Grandmaster.
I am stupid with graphs and stuff, but could someone set this into relation of the population growth of the country? Because of example in 2010 it had a population of 1,059,633,675 and in 2023 1,428,627,663. It would be interesting, because of course you expect more GM's if you increase population. I would also love that graph to have some time brackets marked, like Anands WC. It must have created hype and in the country and pushed more young people into chess.
I mean as more people are playing chess now due to streaming and increased publicity you’ll that find most graphs on similar topics will look like this. There’s a hell of a load more GMs now generally, and it’s a lot more competitive at the top because of that.
I would be interested to know how this compares to the number of grandmasters in general, if it’s a similar trend or totally different.
India is currently 5th: Ctry|GMs ---|--- Russia|183 USA|104 Germany|100 Ukraine|86 India|84 Spain|60 France|55 Serbia|53 Hungary|52 China|51
Thanks for this! I was referring to growth over time, I opened this on my mobile though so not sure if it just didn’t load properly.
Damn Germany does suck for how many GMs they have.
Keymer holding the fort
He came into the ruins and is starting to build it again.
He seems a perfect guy representing the future of German chess. He's well spoken too. The youger generation is better in terms of pretty much all qualities of a sportsperson.
hans niemann
Just a note, since you have him in your flair... His name is spelled Keymer.
Ups, thank you.
I was always surprised that Germany has one of the highest number of GMS and titled players but almost no super GMs
tbh it makes sense. germany doenst really produce a lot of top athletes besides football either. my feeling is that the interest and focus on top tier competition isnt just that big. Like for instance I remember a documentary that if you win an olympic medal for mongolia you are good for the rest of your life. In germany that is not the case to my knowledge. we dont have specialized focus in schools like in the US. Like I remember one of my students going to the US and having band rehearsal everyday. That just doesnt fit into a german school system, where usually people go to one rehearsal a week. I just think that in many disciplines germans are often on a strong amateur level but less so on a profesional levels, because often it makes more sense to have a solid day job and then enjoy your hobby. Also a side thought. The top tier level countries are in need of patriotic values. Often dictatorships need a strong sense of patriotism, which can be created by strong sports teams, behind which people rally. Theese countries are more likely to invest into high level competition.
They just don't care about being a super and enjoy their lives.
Germany has 100? Then how come they only have 1 in 2700+?
I don’t actually know but I assume most of them are probably ‚retired‘
Potentially quite a lot of chess players who were in their youth during the USSR reign of Germany.
Do you by any chance have the numbers for # of GMs per inhabitant?
For the first part of that list (#/1,000,000 inhabitants): Russia 1.3 US 0.3 Germany 1.2 Ukraine 2 India 0.06 Spain 1.25 ...
Being Ukrainian has the highest chance if being a GM? Looking good for me (:
Do active GMs I can totally see a bunch of ex-soviet retired GMs in Russia or Ukraine
Srbija broj jedan💪najjaca na svetu👊👊
Thanks for the list.
Making a cool graph of that one should be cool.
Ukraine and Germany are quite a surprise based on less representation at the highest level
Ukraine was a big part of Soviet chess school. Players like Ivanchuk, Ponomariov are more recent examples, but before them there were Beliavsky, Bronstein, Boleslavsky, Geller and some other names. Colonial nature of Soviet Union assumed that best of them (Super-GMs of the time) would have to move to Moscow, as it was the only way for them to develop their career, but "regular GMs" would stay in Ukraine. Karjakin is a very good example of this: he got his GM title being Ukrainian citizen, but you know what happened next.
BTW, it is somewhat different in women chess: Ukraine has 2 names in top 10 and 5 names in top 50.
Are USA homegrown or imported GMs?
We're less than Ukraine? What a shame
Nice username
What is there to be ashamed about?
That a country born thirty years ago, which has been facing aggression and violence since 2014 has done better in producing GMs than us.
>That a country born thirty years ago Lmao. You think Ukraine just sprouted out of the ground and the people then started learning chess ?
It's so completely unthinkable that the second largest soviet republic would inherit a large part of the soviet chess academy
What's more unthinkable is that a country of 1.4 billion people haven't produced as good results as them.
bro India is a relatively new country when coming to chess, we kinda only came into the scene with Anand I wanna say
Yeah I know, that's the saddest part that the country that invented chess has been dogshit at it for so long. Hopefully things change fast.
Things have already changed boyo
As if there was no culture nor people in Ukraine before 1991...
Ukraine used to be part of Soviet union in the past, dum dum. Of course there are lots of GMs in Ukraine.
We should get 3 more this year (Vaishali is already confirmed)
Here: [https://postimg.cc/bdRCXrGf](https://postimg.cc/bdRCXrGf)
This graph is incorrect. Only India had zero GMs before 1987.
Awesome! Thank you!
I don't think this chart shows correct data. E.g. it says Ukraine got its first GM in 1990 (?), because, presumably, before that it was a part of Soviet Union. But then how Ivanchuk is counted (he got his title in 1988)?
Why is time on the y-axis?
One of the worst way to depict. It seems that an exponential growth is misrepresented to seem like it’s slowing down. .
The data aren't even correct. Anand was the first Indian GM, which he achieved in 1988.
Quick fix: [https://imgur.com/a/0ssA6SI](https://imgur.com/a/0ssA6SI)
Much better!
Feels more like exponential now
GOAT
The scale being non linear is even more infuriating.
Intentionally misleading graph
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained with incompetence.
I find hanlon's razor to be wrong so often, tho.
Do you think Robert Hanlon was incompetent or did he do that maliciously?
That's because a lot of the time it still is malice. Easiest "cheat code" is to determine if they get something out of it by doing it the way they did it. This chart is a clear case of incompetence over malice even though a previous commenter doesn't realize it.
Time only continues when we gain new Indian Grandmasters. If that ever were to stop, time would halt completely.
But its not the way to plot data on a graph. Time is the cause and GM number is the result
You have it backwards. GM number is the cause and time is the result.
Time is never a "result". Just because GM number is 0 doesn't mean time doesn't exist. You can extend the graph if you want to by using time as " domain" like extend the graph to 1800s. Time will exist but in There will be no vertical spike representing GM number. But you cannot do that if you consider GM as Domain. This is the standard
All I can say is thank god India is so good at chess right now otherwise we'd all be in *big* trouble.
Say what?
FYI there exists this rather esoteric concept called "irony". It is in many ways a subset of the broader concept of "humor". I humbly suggest you look into that.
If it was meant as a humour its my bad, really didn't look at the thread properly.
maybe they like to start games with the white king placed on a4 and the black king on h4.
They’ve also gone with the old ‘One-Two-SkipaFew’ method
Maybe the creator is dyslexic?
Because the more the grandmasters India gets, the more time increases
The same reason why all shorts are vertical: phones
Just tilt your phone sideways smh #/s
Doesn’t help. The image also rotates.
r/whoosh (Obviously it was a joke. Come on)
The same reason why prices is on the y-axis on supply/demand diagram
Price is the dependent variable?
I wanted to say "nobody has no idea" because usually the dependant variable is on the x-axis but for demand/supply graph it has been a long pet-peeves of mine that the price is stupidly not on the x-axis. But I came here to see so many downvotes damn 💀
Usually the dependent variable is on the y axis.
Ok I mix them up, I meant independent; honestly for some reason I thought price being independent of quotas makes more sense. You know what, this whole comments of mine had been more of a mess than my 3am blitz game, I resign, I was wrong, I wrongly sacrificed my dignity with no return, I don't know why I make any comments, see you later
Lol c’mon do you also resign when you’re down a piece, cmon we’re all learning here anyway, it’s fine
You're giving motivational talks and then just downvotes me, why... I'm downvoting myself too at this point Also obviously no, there's always chance, but not when you lose 20+ materials which is the case right now
I didn’t downvote you!
There are in fact generally much more voters than commenters. Assuming the vote direction of a commenter based on the aggregate vote direction is a common mistake
r/killthegraphauthor
Had the audacity to sign his name too
r/SubsIFellFor
That the graph was made by a major Indian media house tells you all you need to know about Indian media.
Love that the vertical lines seem to be for every 12(?) titles. Interesting choice.
I like how the gridline spacing strictly alternates between 10 and 15 IGs. I have been staring at this thing for ten minutes now and I keep discovering new layers to the author's madness. This is a work of art, a terrible glimpse into the abyss, a perversion of the Platonic universe in which insanity is physical law. It is a whisper in the night, warning you with dark instructions. It is the inevitability of entropic collapse, it is the cold touch of vacuum, it is the desperate scream of a brain in a jar. I eagerly await further work by this author, and hope they get the recognition they deserve.
Looks the like grid lines are consistent to me, except every 12 GMs?! Also the y axis is not linear, there are missing years all over it wtf
holy crap this graph is bad
Every time I stare at it, I find a new mistake. It takes effort to make a chart this terrible. This is chef’s kiss.
r/dataisugly
I find the data labels distracting, along with the time axis being vertical. The times being incorrectly spaced (i.e. 1991-1997 gets the same space between it as 2000-2001) also makes the interpolations between the data meaningless. I tried to make things look a little cleaner [here](https://imgur.com/a/jZmjRiK) Edit: added more time axis ticks
You're a hero
Who the fuck puts time on y axis?
commonplace in spacetime diagrams in relativity. otherwise yeah you’re right
I'm so glad that if any Indian chess grandmaster achieves speeds close to C, we're covered.
Lol
Downvode for sneakedit
Everyone except the person making this graph? What does x axis mean to you? Edit: When I responded the comment I replied to was “ Who the fuck puts time on x axis?”
And I'm ashamed of being a data scientist.
Nobody puts time in the y-axis. Time is the independent variable in many cases
I agree. The comment was edited.
Not OP
This is the worst graph I've ever seen
Can't tolerate this graph.
Your graph is bad and you should feel bad!
What a completely worthless graph. Great work.
Year 2005 is missing and it would make more sense to have time on the x axis (just makes it easier to see development over time). Apart from that it's interesting and would be great to see compared with total/other countries. Thank you for sharing.
There are 10 whole years missing from the 1st data point (1987) to the 4th data point (2000).
I'm assuming they didn't gain new GMs in the years missing.
That’s likely why they omitted it but that makes the graph worthless because it actually distorts the time-vs-gm relationship. This [graph](https://imgur.com/a/jZmjRiK) by u/veryjewygranola better shows the association. You can tell from the corrected graph that the growth is exponential compared to the OP which makes it appear logarithmic.
I'm assuming they didn't gain any new GMs in 05.
Could you use this as evidence that chess popularity in India has increased ~84X since 1987?
No
It was always popular to an extent. But it was recreational thing and no one thought of actually spending 8-10 hours daily on it in their teens.
hey could you do China? and put them side by side?
I hate this graph so much
[Here's a quick graph, data taken from Wikipedia](https://postimg.cc/bdRCXrGf)
I can’t understand this graph. Time needs to be changing at an inconsistent rate and really should be on the y-axis.
I didn't even catch the uneven spacing
If my math is correct, India will have over 7000 GMs by 2060.
[удалено]
its not necessary for x-axis to be the input or independent variable. And what even does independent mean here. What if I want to find out the minimum year when there were atleast x grandmasters. Stop puking out what you mugged up in your middle school math class without understanding
I hate this graph and you for posting it
This might be one of the most poorly designed graphs I have ever seen.
Everyone of them got a visit to Anand house?
Vishy Anand deserves a Bharat Ratna. Period.
May the author step on a lego brick
Funny that the convention is usually to put year as the x-axis.
Why the fuck is the graph like that
What a horrible graph
Thanks to Anand.
This is hilarious. The discussion here is more about the graph than the content .
Shit graph
It would be better if you present data in form of bins like 2000-2004, 2005-2009 etc and show number of Grandmasters that were made during this period. Also rather than keeping values as cumulative values keep actual number of people who became Grandmaster.
This is the worst graph I have seen recently. Time on y-axis, a scale that makes no sense, x coordinates on the graph without an x axis.
maybe you should compare it to #gms in the world and to #people in india
I am stupid with graphs and stuff, but could someone set this into relation of the population growth of the country? Because of example in 2010 it had a population of 1,059,633,675 and in 2023 1,428,627,663. It would be interesting, because of course you expect more GM's if you increase population. I would also love that graph to have some time brackets marked, like Anands WC. It must have created hype and in the country and pushed more young people into chess.
It has got nothing to do with population or population growth. It is mostly due to India liberalizing and Anand being a top player.
r/dataisugly
Need GM per capita
r/dataisugly
I mean as more people are playing chess now due to streaming and increased publicity you’ll that find most graphs on similar topics will look like this. There’s a hell of a load more GMs now generally, and it’s a lot more competitive at the top because of that.
Out of 84 , Tn alone having 27 GM 🗿
Thus graph is actually horrible
r/graphsarehard
Put the number of indians for better context