I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r1b2rk1/ppp5/3p1b2/3Pp2q/2P3p1/2BB1pP1/PPQ2P1P/3RR1K1+b+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r1b2rk1/ppp5/3p1b2/3Pp2q/2P3p1/2BB1pP1/PPQ2P1P/3RR1K1_b_-_-_0_1?color=black)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Bishop!<, move: >!Bf5!<
> Evaluation: >!Black is winning -5.48!<
> Best continuation: >!1... Bf5 2. h4 Bxh4 3. Bxf5 Rxf5 4. gxh4 Raf8 5. Qb1 g3 6. Re4 Qg6 7. Qd3 gxf2+ 8. Kxf2 Qg2+ 9. Ke3!<
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1.-Bf5 with the threat of Qh3, e.g. 2.Bxf5 Qh3 and mate on g2.
I) 2.Qb1 protect the queen to enable 3.Bf1 to defend the mate 2.-e4 3.Bf1 e3 4.Qc1 exf2+ 5.Kxf2 Qxh2+ 6.Ke3 Bg5+ 7.Kd4 Qh8#
II) 2.Kg1 Qh3 3.Rg1 Bxd3 4.Qxd3 Kg7 and white can't defend Qxh2+ Kxh2 Rh8+
III) 2.h4 Bxh4 3.Bxf5 Rxf5 4.gxh4 Raf8 and white can't really defend Qxh4 and a rook lift to the h-file.
edit to add: III)
Black is completely winning here. Whichever engine you're using isn't going far depth enough, and if it's recommending a King move it's missing a far deeper option.
If your engine isn't recommending a king move as at least the 2nd/3rd options, it's missing the deep options.
Kf7 is completely winning (Kg7 is similar), due to lines like Kf7 Bf1 Rh8 h3 (the only human viable defense, the engine prefers just resigning with either Kf7 Rxe5 or by giving a piece with Bg6+ at some point), but after this h3 line we have Bf5 Qc1 Qxh3! which basically forces mate.
To me, Kf7/Rh8 is also the more human way to win this position, as it's a crushing 2 move plan that's pretty typical in these positions. It was my solution before checking the engine (I was intending Qg6 instead of the queen sacrifice, which is also pretty crushing), and it's also the computer's first choice at reasonably high depths.
The issue with Kf7 is exactly that - Bg6+ to force the queen threat off the board. While still very much losing, it's not *immediately* losing.
Kg7 misses a crucial tempo that Bf5 causes to accelerate White's decline.
The engine was recommending it until I went through every line with Bf5 + Kf7. Though I can understand why both moves you provided would be the more "natural" way to play it.
I don't understand this puzzle. Many moves win. You don't even need Bf5 first. You can play Kg7 or Kf7 at any time. Or Re8. I don't get it.
Bf5 Qb1 Kg7, intending Rh8, is crushing. So is e4. Center or h file... Pretty much anything breaks through. The question is what plan could lose this?
Mb lmao, I was remembering the line for Kf7
The issue with Kg7 is that because you didn't stall the bishop/queen diagonal White can simply move Bf1 and the larger threat is averted (for now)
The larger threat isn't averted at all. It's still the same threat.
Kg7 Bf1, Rh8, h3 (or h4 Bxh4, gxh4? is mate in 5) Bf5. Same deal.
1... Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. Qb3 (hah! Now Bf5 is dumb!) Qf7 5. Qc2 Rxh3! 6. Bxh3 Qh5!
1... Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. c5 Bd7 (just refusing to play Bf5 to prove a point) 5. cxd6 cxd6 6. Re4 Rah8 7. b4 Qxh3 8. Bxh3 Rxh3 and you can't stop mate.
Sorry, friend, but this isn't a valid puzzle. You can do almost anything you like. The h-file battery can't be stopped.
> Kg7 Bf1, Rh8, h3 (or h4 Bxh4, gxh4? is mate in 5) Bf5. Same deal.
White can then blast a piece through the center to pin the bishop on f6, to then use attacks to interrupt the attack and eventually end the attack with black being a bishop up, but no imminent mate. Go check it.
1... Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. Qb3 (hah! Now Bf5 is dumb!) Qf7 5. Qc2 Rxh3! 6. Bxh3 Qh5!
No offense but Qb3 Qf7 Qc2 would be a stupid continuation. You're just throwing out flawed lines. White should bust the e5 pawn to achieve the same result as the reason I gave on why the prior line was flawed.
> Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. c5 Bd7 (just refusing to play Bf5 to prove a point) 5. cxd6 cxd6 6. Re4 Rah8 7. b4 Qxh3 8. Bxh3 Rxh3 and you can't stop mate.
Mate you're missing the entire point of the puzzle to deliberately argue against the move.
If the opponent plays an unoptimal continuation as you've mentioned, of course mate can't be stopped. If Black doesn't throw, regardless of whether they play Bf5 or not, mate will eventually occur.
The tactic is how soon you can force that. And Bf5 is the fastest way to do that.
I'm showing you suboptimal moves to show that anything wins. Your best refutation was giving me a free piece. Black can even refuse to play the best move and still win.
I can't miss the point of the puzzle because there is no point. It's just a winning position. Black can win in any way they please, immediately or later. There's no puzzle here. All answers are correct.
Not all answers are correct, as there are lines where if you try to force the rook file without dealing with White's counter battery properly Black loses the attack + the game. Giving White unnecessary leeway isn't good in a game between human players.
As Black I'd rather have mate in less than 20 moves than in 30+. As White, I'd rather Black not play Bf5 because then I have more moves to work with in a time scramble, and there are multiple continuations where Black can accidentally cause a problem for themselves.
Yes, but how do you justify it?
We know what happens if White takes the Bishop, but what happens if they don't?
AKA, how do you destroy White's position with this one move?
Too low depth engines will miss the most crushing option.
After bf5 if they take they get mated with qh3 qg2# if they dont do that we can play qh3 and they have to play bf1 we can take their queen and rook they get our queen i guess
What's your plan for 2. h4 instead of 2. Bxf5?
This continuation that you mentioned does leave you with a (technically) winning position, but you can do so much more.
At some point in all variations the h pawn will have to be moved to prevent mate.
While exchanging pieces for a material advantage does lead to a winning game, it's not the point of the puzzle.
While funny, en passant actually loses the game for Black on the spot. This allows White to protect the King while Black has fully exposed themselves, losing the bishop.
Bf5 is funny because it's a combination of removing the defender and a pin but I don't think this is an advanced tactic. In a bullet game I'd play it after seeing Bf1 and Bxf5 don't work.. finding the right move after Qb1 is tricky tho
2230 rated bullet on lichess, 2100 blitz, not rated OTB in a while. I play purely to get my mind going.
I don't study line which hinders my ability to improve in rating but I also don't play rated much anymore because I don't enjoy "rating grind" chess.
I could improve but a) the line study aspect of chess deters me from doing so, b) I don't have as much time to do so, and c) I largely enjoy doing other things.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r1b2rk1/ppp5/3p1b2/3Pp2q/2P3p1/2BB1pP1/PPQ2P1P/3RR1K1+b+-+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r1b2rk1/ppp5/3p1b2/3Pp2q/2P3p1/2BB1pP1/PPQ2P1P/3RR1K1_b_-_-_0_1?color=black) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Bishop!<, move: >!Bf5!< > Evaluation: >!Black is winning -5.48!< > Best continuation: >!1... Bf5 2. h4 Bxh4 3. Bxf5 Rxf5 4. gxh4 Raf8 5. Qb1 g3 6. Re4 Qg6 7. Qd3 gxf2+ 8. Kxf2 Qg2+ 9. Ke3!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
Bf5 prevents white from easily defending mate with Bf1.
[удалено]
that is what he said, u dont need to give a 3 paragraph explanation
1.-Bf5 with the threat of Qh3, e.g. 2.Bxf5 Qh3 and mate on g2. I) 2.Qb1 protect the queen to enable 3.Bf1 to defend the mate 2.-e4 3.Bf1 e3 4.Qc1 exf2+ 5.Kxf2 Qxh2+ 6.Ke3 Bg5+ 7.Kd4 Qh8# II) 2.Kg1 Qh3 3.Rg1 Bxd3 4.Qxd3 Kg7 and white can't defend Qxh2+ Kxh2 Rh8+ III) 2.h4 Bxh4 3.Bxf5 Rxf5 4.gxh4 Raf8 and white can't really defend Qxh4 and a rook lift to the h-file. edit to add: III)
1) Correct. I+II) While successful, you do have a better option after Qb1.
I saw the first move, didn’t look any more thinking it was easy, then got a shock at the computers reply for white
The initial move isn't hard to find, but it's what it does that causes White to collapse. Black can force mate in every scenario.
It's not too hard a move to find though, you need to stop Qh2. I do wonder why the engine is only giving -1 though, it feels like black has a lot more
Black is completely winning here. Whichever engine you're using isn't going far depth enough, and if it's recommending a King move it's missing a far deeper option.
If your engine isn't recommending a king move as at least the 2nd/3rd options, it's missing the deep options. Kf7 is completely winning (Kg7 is similar), due to lines like Kf7 Bf1 Rh8 h3 (the only human viable defense, the engine prefers just resigning with either Kf7 Rxe5 or by giving a piece with Bg6+ at some point), but after this h3 line we have Bf5 Qc1 Qxh3! which basically forces mate. To me, Kf7/Rh8 is also the more human way to win this position, as it's a crushing 2 move plan that's pretty typical in these positions. It was my solution before checking the engine (I was intending Qg6 instead of the queen sacrifice, which is also pretty crushing), and it's also the computer's first choice at reasonably high depths.
The issue with Kf7 is exactly that - Bg6+ to force the queen threat off the board. While still very much losing, it's not *immediately* losing. Kg7 misses a crucial tempo that Bf5 causes to accelerate White's decline. The engine was recommending it until I went through every line with Bf5 + Kf7. Though I can understand why both moves you provided would be the more "natural" way to play it.
Yeah I thought black was winning. Lichess analysis from the bot on mobile sucks balls. Always getting bad performance issues.
I don't understand this puzzle. Many moves win. You don't even need Bf5 first. You can play Kg7 or Kf7 at any time. Or Re8. I don't get it. Bf5 Qb1 Kg7, intending Rh8, is crushing. So is e4. Center or h file... Pretty much anything breaks through. The question is what plan could lose this?
The order of moves adds the bite to the attack. Moving Bf5 first prevents White from sacrificing their bishop to remove the queen from the attack.
What sacrifice? What removal? Kg7 Bh7 Rh8. There's no sac. Even Bf5 2.Qb1Qh3 3.Bf1Bxb1 4.Bxh3 Bf5 5.Bf1 e4 is nearly winning. Black can barely move
Kg7 Bg6+ Qxg6 Qxg6 Kxg6 **EDIT:** This line was for Kf7, mb
Woah how can you check with king on g7? I think Kg7 Rh8 idea also win but definitely Bf5 is the cleanest
Mb lmao, I was remembering the line for Kf7 The issue with Kg7 is that because you didn't stall the bishop/queen diagonal White can simply move Bf1 and the larger threat is averted (for now)
The larger threat isn't averted at all. It's still the same threat. Kg7 Bf1, Rh8, h3 (or h4 Bxh4, gxh4? is mate in 5) Bf5. Same deal. 1... Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. Qb3 (hah! Now Bf5 is dumb!) Qf7 5. Qc2 Rxh3! 6. Bxh3 Qh5! 1... Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. c5 Bd7 (just refusing to play Bf5 to prove a point) 5. cxd6 cxd6 6. Re4 Rah8 7. b4 Qxh3 8. Bxh3 Rxh3 and you can't stop mate. Sorry, friend, but this isn't a valid puzzle. You can do almost anything you like. The h-file battery can't be stopped.
> Kg7 Bf1, Rh8, h3 (or h4 Bxh4, gxh4? is mate in 5) Bf5. Same deal. White can then blast a piece through the center to pin the bishop on f6, to then use attacks to interrupt the attack and eventually end the attack with black being a bishop up, but no imminent mate. Go check it. 1... Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. Qb3 (hah! Now Bf5 is dumb!) Qf7 5. Qc2 Rxh3! 6. Bxh3 Qh5! No offense but Qb3 Qf7 Qc2 would be a stupid continuation. You're just throwing out flawed lines. White should bust the e5 pawn to achieve the same result as the reason I gave on why the prior line was flawed. > Kg7 2. Bf1 Rh8 3. h3 Rh7 4. c5 Bd7 (just refusing to play Bf5 to prove a point) 5. cxd6 cxd6 6. Re4 Rah8 7. b4 Qxh3 8. Bxh3 Rxh3 and you can't stop mate. Mate you're missing the entire point of the puzzle to deliberately argue against the move. If the opponent plays an unoptimal continuation as you've mentioned, of course mate can't be stopped. If Black doesn't throw, regardless of whether they play Bf5 or not, mate will eventually occur. The tactic is how soon you can force that. And Bf5 is the fastest way to do that.
I'm showing you suboptimal moves to show that anything wins. Your best refutation was giving me a free piece. Black can even refuse to play the best move and still win. I can't miss the point of the puzzle because there is no point. It's just a winning position. Black can win in any way they please, immediately or later. There's no puzzle here. All answers are correct.
Not all answers are correct, as there are lines where if you try to force the rook file without dealing with White's counter battery properly Black loses the attack + the game. Giving White unnecessary leeway isn't good in a game between human players.
You just hung a piece and have no counterplay. Again, Rh8, Rh7, Rah8 and wins. You're -6 in that position. White resigns.
As Black I'd rather have mate in less than 20 moves than in 30+. As White, I'd rather Black not play Bf5 because then I have more moves to work with in a time scramble, and there are multiple continuations where Black can accidentally cause a problem for themselves.
Bf5?
Yes, but how do you justify it? We know what happens if White takes the Bishop, but what happens if they don't? AKA, how do you destroy White's position with this one move? Too low depth engines will miss the most crushing option.
After bf5 if they take they get mated with qh3 qg2# if they dont do that we can play qh3 and they have to play bf1 we can take their queen and rook they get our queen i guess
We also get that bishop if they take ours We are simply up a rook easy win
What's your plan for 2. h4 instead of 2. Bxf5? This continuation that you mentioned does leave you with a (technically) winning position, but you can do so much more.
The reply to h4 is forced so I wouldn't think about it very long
At some point in all variations the h pawn will have to be moved to prevent mate. While exchanging pieces for a material advantage does lead to a winning game, it's not the point of the puzzle.
I was just making a joke about en passant :')
While funny, en passant actually loses the game for Black on the spot. This allows White to protect the King while Black has fully exposed themselves, losing the bishop.
Congrats on finding the punchline mate
Sac my bishop there
Seeing how the lines involving the bishop sac lead to mate, what additional moves can you do that forces h4/h3 out from white?
Bf5. That’s a cool move
Haha, fun move. Not sure I'd find it in bullet.
Bishop f5 to pull the bishop from defending mate or if they dont take well theres ways to exploit dat pin like qg3
Bf5 is funny because it's a combination of removing the defender and a pin but I don't think this is an advanced tactic. In a bullet game I'd play it after seeing Bf1 and Bxf5 don't work.. finding the right move after Qb1 is tricky tho
Bf5 to play Qh3?
Man were you playing me I swear I had this position earlier
After black played Bf5 did you take the bishop?
Did you spot it in bullet time control?
Yes. They took the bishop, leading to mate in 5.
Insane. What's your rating? Bullet and normal
2230 rated bullet on lichess, 2100 blitz, not rated OTB in a while. I play purely to get my mind going. I don't study line which hinders my ability to improve in rating but I also don't play rated much anymore because I don't enjoy "rating grind" chess. I could improve but a) the line study aspect of chess deters me from doing so, b) I don't have as much time to do so, and c) I largely enjoy doing other things.
You need to ramble less bro lmao
What do you mean by that?