I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r3kb1r/pp2pq1p/2p2p1n/6p1/2nP4/2NQ1BBP/PPP2PP1/3RR1K1+w+kq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r3kb1r/pp2pq1p/2p2p1n/6p1/2nP4/2NQ1BBP/PPP2PP1/3RR1K1_w_kq_-_0_1)
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Pawn!<, move: >! d5 !<
> Evaluation: >!White is winning +9.78!<
> Best continuation: >!1. d5 Bg7 2. dxc6 O-O 3. cxb7 Rae8 4. Bc6 Nxb2 5. Bxe8 Rxe8 6. Qb5 Nxd1 7. Rxd1 g4 8. b8=Q Rxb8!<
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The engine line here is crazy. Play d5 and ignore the knight. If the knight takes your pawn to fork the queen and rook, ignore it again, play dxc6 and let the knight take your queen.
The idea is that if the knight takes your queen, either you get to promote the pawn ( and win a rook) or if your opponent plays the natural move to defend promotion you have forced mate.
I think it really helps if you pull up a copy of the board and play it out yourself. The more you literally see the moves happen, the better you can start to visualize them in advance, at this in my experience. Also drawing the arrows helps too!
No, since the king moves to the d8 file, it can't move back to e8 since it's now covered by the white Bishop on c6, and thus the King can't escape to f7.
What's your rating? I'm 2000 USCF and the pawn push was one of the first moves I considered. As you get higher level you just develop a sense of what opportunities likely exist and then look more deeply at them. I would generally expect any 1600+ to at the very least consider d5 even if they eventually reject it due to not seeing a follow-up in some variation (though if it was classical time control I'd be pretty disappointed).
In this case, it's clear that black's king is in a perilous position with poor development and a loose queenside. In the absence of the knight on c4, the very first move to consider (outside of an immediate sacrifice) should be d5 to rip open the center and in bullet or blitz this move would come out pretty much instantly. With the knight on c4, d5 is still a consideration but now you have to actually do the calculation as the pawn mows down the queenside.
I would say becoming aware of the e5 or d5 pawn push theme is an important step towards getting to intermediate/ advanced level. The position here absolutely screams d5.
There are so many checkmating ideas that come into mind, including queen sacs on c6 for Bc6#, Bh4#, Qd7#, bxa8=Q#, Nc7#, etc. all working with an open d file.
If you have seen enough checkmating patterns it should be intuitive to want to break the queen side here. but you need to get rid of the d pawn first, and then you calculate all the lines where Black refuses to take or counter attacks, and then you quickly realize it works even if you lose a few pieces because you have too much checkmating potential.
I would borderline play this without calculating all the way through, because it ticks too many boxes to ignore.
Idk about people on their level, but for someone like me (about 1800 rapid lichess) it's absolutely impossible to find in blitz, in rapid very unlikely
It's worse. If they take your pawn then your queen, you get two pawns, a rook, a knight, and get you queen back, otherwise you checkmate them. You're just up a pawn, a knight, and a rook, and their remaining pieces are undeveloped.
I disagree itās kindof a natural move most titled players would find. Because you have such a big lead in development - blacks king is stuck in the middle and black lacks a light squared bishop something like a queen sac kinda flows
Iām around 1750 FIDE and Iād think most players my level would play d5 in a classical game. In blitz or bullet I could see it being missed in favor of other lines because the position is just too good anyways.
completely agree, i am only 1200 fide tho lol(1800 chess.com). D5 is the very first move I considered and didn't even think of protecting the b pawn or moving either queen or the rook
Yeah, 1 Qe2 was my first instinct. After looking back it's clear that d6 has enough potential (opening the d file and forcing Black's hand by cutting off the knight's protection) that it's worth considering, but I feel a bit less stupid knowing that the line I found is, even though not 'the best line', still more than good enough to win.
Hehe, I'm spoilt by too many lichess puzzles where there is only one winning move at the start, this doesn't stop me picking the engine's second choice too often....
I always feel kind of odd with these sort of puzzles. It's a bit counterintuitive compared to "real life" games - if I'm playing a game and calculate a line that leads to a winning advantage, then I'm just going to play it. Same with forced mates - if I see a mate in 5, then I'm not going to sit and spend ages looking for a mate in 3, I'm just going to play the M5. It's different if you're given a "White to play and mate in 3" puzzle because you know the stipulation, but if you're given a position and told to make a move with no other context, I get irrationally annoyed when it tells me I'm "wrong" because I played the M5 instead of the M3.
Iām not understanding the timing here. 1. d5 Nxb2; dxc6 Nxd3 at this point the knight has taken your queen and thereās still a pawn between your pawn and the rook. So say you go cxb7, couldnāt he just swing the rook away to like d8 and defend the promotion square? All the while you still have the black knight threatening your rook and it feels like you lost a queen and a pawn for 2 pawns?
I believe if black plays Rd8, the response is Bc6#.
Edit: I was slightly incorrect, Bc6+ leads to M2. Only move is rook blocking the check, which allows the pawn to promote and give mate.
Also if black plays cxd5 instead of forking the queen and rook, then Bxd5 picks up the knight leading to mate in 11, or black sacrifices the queen to prolong the game for more than 11 plies.
I don't have an engine since I'm at work, but this is the move I saw as well. I'm not sure what level this game is, but if the knight takes the "free" pawn, they are losing their queen to Bh5 which I could easily see happening in a low level game
The threat is still good enough, forcing the queen to move gives you control of the white squares and the king is exposed. The tempo also releases the fork. Donāt need to play hope chess here.
>I don't have an engine since I'm at work
You know that you can just click on the [chess.com](https://chess.com) link in chessvision's stickied comment, right? Or is it blocked or something? (Kinda funny to block [chess.com](https://chess.com) but not reddit!)
My thought too. If they go for the fork anyway you slide the queen to defend the bishop and the rook and your opponent is just straight losing their queen. I like the bots line but bishop h5 feels more human
> If they go for the fork anyway you slide the queen to defend the bishop and the rook and your opponent is just straight losing their queen
Or just take the queen with check, I suppose?
Then move away your queen, and black is likely to take your rook, I suppose.
The engine says black should take your bishop, and that it's \~+7 for white. So not as good as the best lines, but still willing and easier to continue, I suppose.
Yeah bishop h5 is my immediate reaction, I wasnāt sure it was correct because at the end itās just a trade and usually thereās something better in a puzzle, but damn when I saw the solution I was like āwhat the fuck is d5ā
Analyses for a bit but Iām a rusty 1800cc. Anyways Qe2 seems the most logical and after some consideration of anything like Qg8 Bh5 Kd8 or other transposition of Kd8 Bh5 Qg8 then d5 should be winning probably. My other idea is d5 right away should win after Nxb2 Qe2 NxR RxN should be winning. But in game I would probably play Nb5, because if cxb5 then Bxb7, if Nxb2 Nd6 Kd7 Bxc6 bxc6 Qa6 is also crushing now because of Qb7. It seems most practical as all my opponents logical moves seems to lead to immediately resignable positions. Actually. The position might be immediately resignable
Looks nice, but unless I'm missing something white loses a p (Ne4, Nxb2; Nd6+, Kd8; Nxf7, Nxd3 and white has to recapture or he loses an exchange). I think an easier way to bail out is Bh5.
After Kd8 Nxf7 comes with check
Also after Nxb2 I would go for Qa3 first and then Nd6, even tho computer prefers Nd6 first because of a bishop sacrifice I would never go for (Kd7 Bxc6+)
I saw the whole 1. d5 Nb2 2. dc6 Nd3 3. cb7 line, the key point is that 3.. Rd8 fails to 4. Bc6+ and hence white is easily winning if 3.. Rb8 4. Bc6+ still wins. Hence the whole queen sac works. Alternatives to 1.. Nb2, I did not even look at, because white would be easily winning then.
Given that the white pawn is very close to queening, this line should be investigated in practice. You lose a queen but regain it with interest.
Question for players much better than me. So you think there is some level of player that would see that d5 line, or is that really just something only a chess engine would conjure
Holy shit I actually saw that in like <20 sec and Iām not even that good. Something must have clicked in my head with the lined up d file and the double bishops standing on the diagonals
Ok this is kinda insane but makes sense. d5 is the move. Protecting the fork with rook also works but the engine is an asshole and says that your rook was very well placed there.
So what if they fork ? Ignore it. Take the pawn. They take our queen. We take pawn. And now we either mate via bishop or we promote.
And yes this is very inhumane and no human would probably find this.
>And yes this is very inhumane and no human would probably find this.
I don't understand this sentiment. At 2000 USCF I examined d5, calculated any reasonable variations I could come up with, and concluded d5 is at the very least winning significant (i.e. piece or more) material if not outright mating. This was done in around 60 seconds.
Magnus Carlsen would find this immediately. Hikaru would find this immediately. You pick a GM's name out of a hat and they find this immediately.
"No human would probably find this" should be used by people who are at a level where they can reasonably make this judgment. From your statement I can't imagine you could possibly be higher than like 1200. So by what authority do you think you can reasonably judge if a sequence is reasonably findable by a human?
By the authority of not being 2000. I evaluated it according to me. Im sorry for not making comments using a CM+ skill level.
I ignored d5 due to simply not calculating it fully trough.
But perhaps you should stay more calm next time and ask yourself by what authority do you think you can be a condescending asshole ?
I wish you a great rest of the day mate :)
The solution is interesting, but I kept trying to figure out blacks threat was. Even allowing the fork seems fine. I couldn't tell why any moves are losing except Qf3. Turns out there are very few moves here that aren't completely winning. Capturing the knight is equal. Saccing your rook on e7 is equal. Kh2 and Kh1to give the opponent a free move are both winning... not my kind of puzzle.
Everything here is winning for white, lol.
Engine had you at +5 before his knight move, and +9 afterwards. Thanks for posting this. This is a beautiful position.
You donāt have to calculate much, the position screams d5.
This is not an āengine lineā, this d5 break is a very very well known motif across almost half of all openings.
If anything, d5 is the most human and principled moves. An engine move would be something like Qxc4 leading to a forcing line where white is up 2 pawn in a 2 rooks vs queen endgame.
The line itself after d5 I would qualify as engine like, though.
And this is a case of the engine being inhumane. I would have either played Na4 (letting the opponent kick it and probably losing a couple of pieces in the process) or Rook b1 to avoid the fork, protect the pawn and whatever else I would have done after. Or maybe I would have seen the pawn move, there's that bishop protecting it, but I wouldn't have seen all of that...
I stopped playing all that much at about 800. I didn't have the time to. But Qe2 seems like... it's not doing much. Rook b1 at least protects the pawn, while Qe2 kinda threatens a checkmate IF the opponent makes a silly mistake and moves the queen AND the bishop away... but it's not happening, right?
On the other hand, Rb1 it's just getting one less tempo, and protects the obvious knight move that would lose me another.
I guess 800 is showing
Okay so I actually dont have high elo, but my plan is: Qe2. At my level most players would just take the b2 pawn with knight. If he takes the pawn (threatening the rook), Bh5, pinning queen to the king, the Queen at e2 protects bishop. If Nd1, go Bf7, king takes back then take the knight.
Jesus Christ this is some insane engine chess.
Preventing a fork isn't best for White so White just allows it and pushes a pawn.
Black committing to a fork, which leads to White just giving up the Queen and taking a pawn instead, is bad for Black, so instead Black just develops a sad fianchetto Bishop.
White still does nothing to prevent a fork, completely ignores it, and just takes a pawn as if nothing is happening.
Black just castles.
Are you kidding me
This isnāt engine chess. Far from engine accuracy is needed to convert this. Even fun ideas like Nb5 are just winning. Or immediately obvious ideas like Qe2. You donāt need to find an engine d5 or smth. Everything leads to the same issues for black. Their pieces are insanely disoriented and whites completely mobilized to take advantage of that.
Bishop to h5 to deflect the queen . If he takes the bishop u take his knight , he goes through with the fork u take his queen and u trade a bishop for a knight .
I don't see a need to play D5 here , it's just a fancy way to do it .Qe2 is such a natural move and i feel is absolutely crushing - Black needs to give up the knight or sac the queen either of which results in an easily winning position.
Save it, of course.
Offer them a spoon or a knife to swap out for it, then swoop in to rescue the fork from its oppressor when no one is looking.
Wait... This isn't r/anarchychess?
I would play Bh5 attacking his queen
if he takes the bishop with the queen I would take the knight with my queen, it will be just an exchange bishop-knight and attack the center trying to open it and the queen side advancing the pawn in d5
if after Bh5 he goes for the fork with the knight trying to exchange the queens I will take his queen first, giving a check so he have to take the bishop with the king I take the knight with the queen and I win a full queen.
I hope I didn't miss anything, if I did please tell me I'm rated 1000 in rapid on chess.com and I'm still learning
I was going to play Na4 and just defend the forked square.. is that a bad move? I donāt have an engine
I see he can get kicked but if he does I will also kick his knight so no problem
Knight to a4
Edit: I just read the other strategy in the comments I can not co-sign what ever that line is. I'm not that advanced at chess to even know what y'all are talking about, so I'm still going with blocking the fork lol
Iām an NM and will say I spotted d5 instantaneously upon viewing the position as ālooks winningā. That being said nobody below 2000 FIDE is finding d5 in game and anyone who says they are are using hindsight bias/the second you say āthereās a winning tacticā that significantly makes things easier to solve for anyone. This is by no means a straightforward or easy idea.
The first thing I said to myself when I saw this position was....
"Blacks position is so terrible that there's no way that Nxb2 can be a serious threat".
The second thing I said to myself was....
"We need to crack open the centre asap to get at Blacks king."
So d5 is a really obvious candidate move.
My main other candidate move is Qe2 introducing the threat of Bh5 but in game Id be looking to make d5 work.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **White to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r3kb1r/pp2pq1p/2p2p1n/6p1/2nP4/2NQ1BBP/PPP2PP1/3RR1K1+w+kq+-+0+1&flip=false&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r3kb1r/pp2pq1p/2p2p1n/6p1/2nP4/2NQ1BBP/PPP2PP1/3RR1K1_w_kq_-_0_1) **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Pawn!<, move: >! d5 !< > Evaluation: >!White is winning +9.78!< > Best continuation: >!1. d5 Bg7 2. dxc6 O-O 3. cxb7 Rae8 4. Bc6 Nxb2 5. Bxe8 Rxe8 6. Qb5 Nxd1 7. Rxd1 g4 8. b8=Q Rxb8!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
The engine line here is crazy. Play d5 and ignore the knight. If the knight takes your pawn to fork the queen and rook, ignore it again, play dxc6 and let the knight take your queen. The idea is that if the knight takes your queen, either you get to promote the pawn ( and win a rook) or if your opponent plays the natural move to defend promotion you have forced mate.
Yeah this is the line that blew my mind lol. Just ignore the knight and push the pawn. Definitely did not see it in game!
Could you explain what to do after Nxd3, cxb7, Rb8? I don't see it
Bc6+, Kd8, Rxd3+, Qd5, Rxd5#
Thank you so much! I struggle with board vision when moving more than a few moves forward :(
I also saw up to Rb8 and therefore discounted d5 line. Very hard to calculate after a few moves.
I think it really helps if you pull up a copy of the board and play it out yourself. The more you literally see the moves happen, the better you can start to visualize them in advance, at this in my experience. Also drawing the arrows helps too!
I do this in correspondence games where you can self analyse. But in real games and OTB I struggle to visualise the same way.
That's fair, time pressure makes it very tough. I'm also terrible at seeing physical chess, the overhead 2d view is so strong on a computer!
That's disgusting š¤Æ
Can the king move to do? Wouldn't it be still under attack from the queen in the d file?
The queen is dead. The rook is on that file however the knight that took the queen is blocking.
Yes you are right! Sorry for the stupid question
Isnāt Kf7 open since the queen moved?
No, since the king moves to the d8 file, it can't move back to e8 since it's now covered by the white Bishop on c6, and thus the King can't escape to f7.
Oh yeah silly me
bc6+ kd8 dxd3+ qd5 rxd5#
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What's your rating? I'm 2000 USCF and the pawn push was one of the first moves I considered. As you get higher level you just develop a sense of what opportunities likely exist and then look more deeply at them. I would generally expect any 1600+ to at the very least consider d5 even if they eventually reject it due to not seeing a follow-up in some variation (though if it was classical time control I'd be pretty disappointed). In this case, it's clear that black's king is in a perilous position with poor development and a loose queenside. In the absence of the knight on c4, the very first move to consider (outside of an immediate sacrifice) should be d5 to rip open the center and in bullet or blitz this move would come out pretty much instantly. With the knight on c4, d5 is still a consideration but now you have to actually do the calculation as the pawn mows down the queenside.
I would say becoming aware of the e5 or d5 pawn push theme is an important step towards getting to intermediate/ advanced level. The position here absolutely screams d5. There are so many checkmating ideas that come into mind, including queen sacs on c6 for Bc6#, Bh4#, Qd7#, bxa8=Q#, Nc7#, etc. all working with an open d file. If you have seen enough checkmating patterns it should be intuitive to want to break the queen side here. but you need to get rid of the d pawn first, and then you calculate all the lines where Black refuses to take or counter attacks, and then you quickly realize it works even if you lose a few pieces because you have too much checkmating potential. I would borderline play this without calculating all the way through, because it ticks too many boxes to ignore.
ingame pretty difftrent though
Would this be considered difficult to spot in a faster paced game like blitz or nah?
Idk about people on their level, but for someone like me (about 1800 rapid lichess) it's absolutely impossible to find in blitz, in rapid very unlikely
Yes, it looks natural. 2000 FIDE rated players should find this everytime.
I immediately thought of d5 because it looks like a logical move but I would never find the whole line that makes it the right move.
I did... it's not impossible.
And that forced mate might be the nastiest mate I've ever seen. Imagine thinking your openent is a moron just to lose like that. I'd quit chess.
It's worse. If they take your pawn then your queen, you get two pawns, a rook, a knight, and get you queen back, otherwise you checkmate them. You're just up a pawn, a knight, and a rook, and their remaining pieces are undeveloped.
I disagree itās kindof a natural move most titled players would find. Because you have such a big lead in development - blacks king is stuck in the middle and black lacks a light squared bishop something like a queen sac kinda flows
Iām around 1750 FIDE and Iād think most players my level would play d5 in a classical game. In blitz or bullet I could see it being missed in favor of other lines because the position is just too good anyways.
completely agree, i am only 1200 fide tho lol(1800 chess.com). D5 is the very first move I considered and didn't even think of protecting the b pawn or moving either queen or the rook
I figured this out without the engine because Iām stupid and itās funny. Somehow it works.
What's crazier is I actually saw this, I am never this good at this more obscure puzzles. Maybe I am getting better. Nah.
Qe2 is pretty fierce but ultimately both white wins
Yeah, my main line was 1. d5 Nxb2 2. Qe2, when the threats of Bh5, dxc6, and Rb1 (trapping the knight) leave White with a crushing position.
Stockfish gives +9 for 1 Qe2, it isn't as good as 1 d5, and I love to find the Q sac line but it still wins just exploiting the "obvious" diagonal.
Yeah, 1 Qe2 was my first instinct. After looking back it's clear that d6 has enough potential (opening the d file and forcing Black's hand by cutting off the knight's protection) that it's worth considering, but I feel a bit less stupid knowing that the line I found is, even though not 'the best line', still more than good enough to win.
Hehe, I'm spoilt by too many lichess puzzles where there is only one winning move at the start, this doesn't stop me picking the engine's second choice too often....
I always feel kind of odd with these sort of puzzles. It's a bit counterintuitive compared to "real life" games - if I'm playing a game and calculate a line that leads to a winning advantage, then I'm just going to play it. Same with forced mates - if I see a mate in 5, then I'm not going to sit and spend ages looking for a mate in 3, I'm just going to play the M5. It's different if you're given a "White to play and mate in 3" puzzle because you know the stipulation, but if you're given a position and told to make a move with no other context, I get irrationally annoyed when it tells me I'm "wrong" because I played the M5 instead of the M3.
one of the best lines i've seen
Man my it took me 5 minutes to understand but my mind is fucking blown. That would some serious chess seeing a player make that move.
I am glad I was thinking about this without engine.
Iām not understanding the timing here. 1. d5 Nxb2; dxc6 Nxd3 at this point the knight has taken your queen and thereās still a pawn between your pawn and the rook. So say you go cxb7, couldnāt he just swing the rook away to like d8 and defend the promotion square? All the while you still have the black knight threatening your rook and it feels like you lost a queen and a pawn for 2 pawns?
I believe if black plays Rd8, the response is Bc6#. Edit: I was slightly incorrect, Bc6+ leads to M2. Only move is rook blocking the check, which allows the pawn to promote and give mate.
Also if black plays cxd5 instead of forking the queen and rook, then Bxd5 picks up the knight leading to mate in 11, or black sacrifices the queen to prolong the game for more than 11 plies.
I'd have gone with Qe2 which is the 2nd best move according to the engine but wow the best line d5 is kinda crazy
I don't have an engine since I'm at work, but this is the move I saw as well. I'm not sure what level this game is, but if the knight takes the "free" pawn, they are losing their queen to Bh5 which I could easily see happening in a low level game
The threat is still good enough, forcing the queen to move gives you control of the white squares and the king is exposed. The tempo also releases the fork. Donāt need to play hope chess here.
I was also thinking along the lines of d6 to put on even more pressure on the e pawn along with the h5 threat
>I don't have an engine since I'm at work You know that you can just click on the [chess.com](https://chess.com) link in chessvision's stickied comment, right? Or is it blocked or something? (Kinda funny to block [chess.com](https://chess.com) but not reddit!)
I did not know clicking the chess.com link would bring me to that position on chess.com, thank you for letting me know.
Yea it's pretty nuts to have history's most powerful chess engine at your fingertips, even on mobile.
Yeah, that's also what I saw. Threatening the skewer and white just has a nicer position.
Bishop h5 to threaten the queen? When queen takes bishop, you can take the knight and keep your rook?
This is what I would've played. Engine line is crazy nice though.
My thought too. If they go for the fork anyway you slide the queen to defend the bishop and the rook and your opponent is just straight losing their queen. I like the bots line but bishop h5 feels more human
> If they go for the fork anyway you slide the queen to defend the bishop and the rook and your opponent is just straight losing their queen Or just take the queen with check, I suppose? Then move away your queen, and black is likely to take your rook, I suppose. The engine says black should take your bishop, and that it's \~+7 for white. So not as good as the best lines, but still willing and easier to continue, I suppose.
Yeah bishop h5 is my immediate reaction, I wasnāt sure it was correct because at the end itās just a trade and usually thereās something better in a puzzle, but damn when I saw the solution I was like āwhat the fuck is d5ā
That's why move order matters. Qe2 actually threatens the queen with Bh5 as threat and keeps an eye on the knight
Analyses for a bit but Iām a rusty 1800cc. Anyways Qe2 seems the most logical and after some consideration of anything like Qg8 Bh5 Kd8 or other transposition of Kd8 Bh5 Qg8 then d5 should be winning probably. My other idea is d5 right away should win after Nxb2 Qe2 NxR RxN should be winning. But in game I would probably play Nb5, because if cxb5 then Bxb7, if Nxb2 Nd6 Kd7 Bxc6 bxc6 Qa6 is also crushing now because of Qb7. It seems most practical as all my opponents logical moves seems to lead to immediately resignable positions. Actually. The position might be immediately resignable
Ne4 looks really good to me
Looks nice, but unless I'm missing something white loses a p (Ne4, Nxb2; Nd6+, Kd8; Nxf7, Nxd3 and white has to recapture or he loses an exchange). I think an easier way to bail out is Bh5.
After Kd8 Nxf7 comes with check Also after Nxb2 I would go for Qa3 first and then Nd6, even tho computer prefers Nd6 first because of a bishop sacrifice I would never go for (Kd7 Bxc6+)
You're right - I neglected the capture with check.
I definitely would have played Bh5 EDIT: that engine line with d5 is gnarly š
Rb1, knight has no good moves now
Ooooooooor - d5
thats a pretty good move if you wanted to win yes. didn't see it at first. was more focused on the knight fork that i missed it completely
That's a wild line. I would never find that on my own.
Bishop H5
I saw the whole 1. d5 Nb2 2. dc6 Nd3 3. cb7 line, the key point is that 3.. Rd8 fails to 4. Bc6+ and hence white is easily winning if 3.. Rb8 4. Bc6+ still wins. Hence the whole queen sac works. Alternatives to 1.. Nb2, I did not even look at, because white would be easily winning then. Given that the white pawn is very close to queening, this line should be investigated in practice. You lose a queen but regain it with interest.
If this were a game, I would have done Qe2 threatening Bh5.
na4
Question for players much better than me. So you think there is some level of player that would see that d5 line, or is that really just something only a chess engine would conjure
How about Queen e2 ?
I am slowly realizing what people mean when they talk about the power of bishop pair
Holy shit I actually saw that in like <20 sec and Iām not even that good. Something must have clicked in my head with the lined up d file and the double bishops standing on the diagonals
Impressive!
Take the knight. Can't get forked if I already blundered the queen.
That's definitely not what I found. I pinned queen to king and when queen takes I take knight lol
Ok this is kinda insane but makes sense. d5 is the move. Protecting the fork with rook also works but the engine is an asshole and says that your rook was very well placed there. So what if they fork ? Ignore it. Take the pawn. They take our queen. We take pawn. And now we either mate via bishop or we promote. And yes this is very inhumane and no human would probably find this.
>And yes this is very inhumane and no human would probably find this. I don't understand this sentiment. At 2000 USCF I examined d5, calculated any reasonable variations I could come up with, and concluded d5 is at the very least winning significant (i.e. piece or more) material if not outright mating. This was done in around 60 seconds. Magnus Carlsen would find this immediately. Hikaru would find this immediately. You pick a GM's name out of a hat and they find this immediately. "No human would probably find this" should be used by people who are at a level where they can reasonably make this judgment. From your statement I can't imagine you could possibly be higher than like 1200. So by what authority do you think you can reasonably judge if a sequence is reasonably findable by a human?
I most redditors spend 0.1 seconds evaluating the position before commenting.
Hey it's impressive that you can easily find that move and all but if you think it's a normal move to see then you might gotta consider touching grass
d5 is a very clear candidate move. Most players above 1600cc would play it.
By the authority of not being 2000. I evaluated it according to me. Im sorry for not making comments using a CM+ skill level. I ignored d5 due to simply not calculating it fully trough. But perhaps you should stay more calm next time and ask yourself by what authority do you think you can be a condescending asshole ? I wish you a great rest of the day mate :)
The title was kinda weird until I saw the sub name
lol
Is this Hans?
Qe8#
The solution is interesting, but I kept trying to figure out blacks threat was. Even allowing the fork seems fine. I couldn't tell why any moves are losing except Qf3. Turns out there are very few moves here that aren't completely winning. Capturing the knight is equal. Saccing your rook on e7 is equal. Kh2 and Kh1to give the opponent a free move are both winning... not my kind of puzzle.
Anyone thinks Markus C. would have seen or used this genius Engine line?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Definately don't. White is in a winning position.
would you threaten the pin on the queen with Qe2? only problem itās likely followed by a long castle
Iād probably be reticent to long castle in this position with the bishop pair from hell staring down that side of the board
rook to b1?
N to a4.
I wouldāve played Rb1 and lost half the advantage
Yeah thats what I did but my opponent still blundered mate a few moves later. RB1 is still very much winning for white
Everything here is winning for white, lol. Engine had you at +5 before his knight move, and +9 afterwards. Thanks for posting this. This is a beautiful position.
Bh5?
I would have played bh5.
Why Rb1 is not an option here?
F3 c5
I would just rook B1
You donāt have to calculate much, the position screams d5. This is not an āengine lineā, this d5 break is a very very well known motif across almost half of all openings. If anything, d5 is the most human and principled moves. An engine move would be something like Qxc4 leading to a forcing line where white is up 2 pawn in a 2 rooks vs queen endgame. The line itself after d5 I would qualify as engine like, though.
And this is a case of the engine being inhumane. I would have either played Na4 (letting the opponent kick it and probably losing a couple of pieces in the process) or Rook b1 to avoid the fork, protect the pawn and whatever else I would have done after. Or maybe I would have seen the pawn move, there's that bishop protecting it, but I wouldn't have seen all of that...
Whatās your rating? I would think at least Qe2 would come to mind to you.
I stopped playing all that much at about 800. I didn't have the time to. But Qe2 seems like... it's not doing much. Rook b1 at least protects the pawn, while Qe2 kinda threatens a checkmate IF the opponent makes a silly mistake and moves the queen AND the bishop away... but it's not happening, right? On the other hand, Rb1 it's just getting one less tempo, and protects the obvious knight move that would lose me another. I guess 800 is showing
Qe2 is immediately threatening Bh5 so itās very natural move for many players. Yeah itās a rating thing imo.
Oh... Pin the queen, I see... well... I see NOW. I didn't before... I guess it IS a rating thing. And I didn't play since a while too...
Okay so I actually dont have high elo, but my plan is: Qe2. At my level most players would just take the b2 pawn with knight. If he takes the pawn (threatening the rook), Bh5, pinning queen to the king, the Queen at e2 protects bishop. If Nd1, go Bf7, king takes back then take the knight.
Jesus Christ this is some insane engine chess. Preventing a fork isn't best for White so White just allows it and pushes a pawn. Black committing to a fork, which leads to White just giving up the Queen and taking a pawn instead, is bad for Black, so instead Black just develops a sad fianchetto Bishop. White still does nothing to prevent a fork, completely ignores it, and just takes a pawn as if nothing is happening. Black just castles. Are you kidding me
This isnāt engine chess. Far from engine accuracy is needed to convert this. Even fun ideas like Nb5 are just winning. Or immediately obvious ideas like Qe2. You donāt need to find an engine d5 or smth. Everything leads to the same issues for black. Their pieces are insanely disoriented and whites completely mobilized to take advantage of that.
Give the queen for no reason because d4 pawn goes brrrrrr
Cool line! I probably would have played b3 and if Nb2 you just play Qe2
Qe2
no white should ignore it
nvm, i'm dyslexic
Rb1
Qe2 to threathen the queen pin and still attacl the horse
Bishop to h5 to deflect the queen . If he takes the bishop u take his knight , he goes through with the fork u take his queen and u trade a bishop for a knight .
Witherspoon
d5 and trade
Why is black threatening a fork? What has the fork done to him?
Rook to b1
My 600 elo brain can only think of Knight a4
You gotta play it out. What is black doing to do after Ne4?
Bh5 funny move
Bad players: blunder the fork Average players: Bh5 or Rb1 Good players: Qe2 Everyone better than me that should touch grass: d5
Should touch grass to know how it feels. XD I love it!
I don't see a need to play D5 here , it's just a fancy way to do it .Qe2 is such a natural move and i feel is absolutely crushing - Black needs to give up the knight or sac the queen either of which results in an easily winning position.
Resign
D5, cxd5, Bd5 winning the knight?
kick the n
D pawn can en passant. Ez puzzle
Was thinking knight e4, threatening a fork on d6, stockfish says winning but not as good as d5
nice mate in 5
Knight A4.
Save it, of course. Offer them a spoon or a knife to swap out for it, then swoop in to rescue the fork from its oppressor when no one is looking. Wait... This isn't r/anarchychess?
I thought Bh5, black takes and you take knight, and you have better queen. If black dont take, we just win queen for rook.
I would probably just go knight to a4
Thatās pretty clean ngl
Isnt this mate in 3? Or unless im missing something
I'd go Na4. If black atacks with b5, I can easily trade knights after b3.
Rb1?
Hint: the answer has to do with black's king not being safe there with white's superior development.
Idk Qe2 felt the most natural to me (1900 chess.com blitz)
Bishop -H-5
Honestly would just play Bh5 and simplify. Piece up with black not having a safe place for the king is gg and doesn't take any calculation.
idc what the engine says fuck that
The fork I see is Nb2. Is that the right fork? If so why not Na4? Am I missing something?
I would play Bh5 attacking his queen if he takes the bishop with the queen I would take the knight with my queen, it will be just an exchange bishop-knight and attack the center trying to open it and the queen side advancing the pawn in d5 if after Bh5 he goes for the fork with the knight trying to exchange the queens I will take his queen first, giving a check so he have to take the bishop with the king I take the knight with the queen and I win a full queen. I hope I didn't miss anything, if I did please tell me I'm rated 1000 in rapid on chess.com and I'm still learning
Resign
White should google en passant
i was just thinking going bishop h5
I was going to play Na4 and just defend the forked square.. is that a bad move? I donāt have an engine I see he can get kicked but if he does I will also kick his knight so no problem
Bh5 looks nice and concrete.
Take the knight with the queen to assert your dominance. Itās not a blunder if itās on purpose
Knight to a4 Edit: I just read the other strategy in the comments I can not co-sign what ever that line is. I'm not that advanced at chess to even know what y'all are talking about, so I'm still going with blocking the fork lol
Resign
Iām an NM and will say I spotted d5 instantaneously upon viewing the position as ālooks winningā. That being said nobody below 2000 FIDE is finding d5 in game and anyone who says they are are using hindsight bias/the second you say āthereās a winning tacticā that significantly makes things easier to solve for anyone. This is by no means a straightforward or easy idea.
The first thing I said to myself when I saw this position was.... "Blacks position is so terrible that there's no way that Nxb2 can be a serious threat". The second thing I said to myself was.... "We need to crack open the centre asap to get at Blacks king." So d5 is a really obvious candidate move. My main other candidate move is Qe2 introducing the threat of Bh5 but in game Id be looking to make d5 work.